Guild Wars 2

Greymelken.1892:

the healing stat should govern outgoing heals, not incoming heals. its just silly how it works now.

Agreed… It would be more logic;
If I cast a water field and people blast it my healing is used instead of theirs. they only provide the trigger, the water field is mine.

Further more:
Thank you, Rauderi and others for replying,
even when I disagree I appreciate feedback

In the end Healing needs a change,
I would appreciate such a change.
And thank you all for understanding the point.

I hope developers from ArenaNet can fiind a decent and workable solution, I’d advise looking into a modified scaling I’d suggest to make a base around 60% for most skills and a resonable steep curve, with a 35% boost over present heals at 981 and a thus a 50% boost ate 1381. dedicated tank healers will have a way to get killed, conditions with poison will reduce healing significantly.

If needed gains from healing could be reduced to -50% when poisoned, also making poison stronger without strengthening the damage output.

And during that time of change I hope the programmers and developers figure out a nice set of zealot trinkets so we can actually use the Zeaolot stat combination to the fullest,

(Mehnlo, Danika zu helter, Dunkuro, Oghden and Tahlkora and other monks come to mind in the search of decent names for rings and trinkets…)

Thank you.

so he’s mashing away for 2 hours doing only mace hits. if he doesn ’t do so he dies.

nice game he has. also the dps is horrid. 1hour 41 minutes for a dungeon path lasting 15-18 minutes at most… he doesn’t lose time while walking so his DPS output is about 1/8th of others… who using a more dps or DoT related build. The only thing you can do is stand on a platform and keep it.

Untill 1 guy comes with condition dmg and kills you in 20 seconds. Due to your perfect healing no longer functioning as you expoect as your armor is fully ignored. And you ’lll be melting where you stand.

clerics and nomads… I use it for mai trin fractal, I can res ppl in full combat just cleansing away, but in the cannon barrage I’d die in less then 10 seocnds due to conditions completely destroying me (they are applied too quick to survive or cleanse (I can clean 15 conditions in seconds), if I need to get hit by any reason… if it happens and I get 10 stacks of burning it takes 3 seconds and I’m dead. I do not want to think about condition builds, like PU condi mesmer, SB/trapper thief/ranger, terrormancer, burning guard, D/? earth ele or S/S warrior)

I just want to point out a bunker like his is based on 3500 armor mitigating most dmg, but armor doesn’t mitigate condition damage… in that case with a nice heal he’ll die as fast as most other builds. In PvP I’d just send 1 or 2 condi builds after him, he’ll lose 10 times in a row and change to celestial.. (yes I know there ’s no nomad in PvP)

Rauderi.8706:

stof.9341:

ANet doesn’t like diminishing returns. It’s not a bad thing really.

Also, Healing power already give you insane survivability : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I6DKZ45a0VU

A nigh-two hour video for one spec of one class is an anecdote, not sufficient for statistical significance. Remove Altruistic Healing, and it’s suddenly not so ‘insane’ for survivability.

The real reason ANet isn’t going to change healing power is “e-sport” and PvP. If a bunker survives too long (and who doesn’t have knockbacks, honestly?), it’s suddenly a huge qq situation. That bugs me. They’re worried about meta-game blowback when they could actually just fix it by tweaking healing power and letting the meta sort itself out.

5 unkillable builds would be enough to waranty panick,

but this lowers actual healing , but makes healing and boon duration significant from healing as a stat. I think this would make PvP even faster and bunkers more squishy. unles they are really adept using boons.

stof.9341:

ANet doesn’t like diminishing returns. It’s not a bad thing really.

Also, Healing power already give you insane survivability : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I6DKZ45a0VU

PaxTheGreatOne.9472:

look at the values:

before the sugegsted change the person would have had
8250 +1.25 * 640 =9050 ponints of healing
after the suggestion the same build would have had:
5623 + ( 3 * 640) = 7563 healing and 19.2% boon duration

in the end it’s less loss then the zerk build had with
(8250 before and 5623 after) but it’s not over the top much…

I think I am trying to show you something here…

the healing AS A STAT becomes more effective the resulting HEALS are lower!

Raising the skillcap, and making your remark pointless.

I’m trying to explain something.

Please read instead of just panicking please.

Lastly thinking I’d rather go Nomads Clerics in PvE , or dungeons is rediculous, let’s do the full dungeon tour you do it with 5 of those. I’ll take 4 zerks and 1 zealot.
And I’ll finish my HotW paths in 15-20 minutes each and you’ll be chopping away for an hour each path… Who has more fun? I can do something usefull after 4 hours with the money from those dungeons (probaly finished SE, COF, TA, COE, AC and HOTW by then maybe even 1 or 2 paths of arah…) and you just started your fourth dungeon path -.-

I do not think my suggested example was so extreme… I do not think after removing 35% of the base healing and tripling the multiplier the values became over the top either. I think it just shows it can be balanced and it will mean a higher skill level for certain classes. very much so.

But as it stands now, some, if not all, classes can get away with running no healing whatsoever. they only depend on base heals, which shows the inherent problem.

I think making the rewards and necessity bigger, would also return a use for healing as a stat. without instantaneously creating the second part of the trinity. (still do not have full tanks, full healers and full DPS.) we would get more squishy DPS and the healing side a bit more viable.

It doesn’t make a trinity or mandatory healers, it would just make ZERK more twitchy and some other parts more rewarding. Also as long as you can survive on active defences Zerk will not suffer anyways.

stof.9341:

Nerfing base healing for all builds that don’t have healing power is a sure way to completely wreck the game balance.

I can’t even imagine the mess it’ll do in sPvP while you buff Celestial so much compared to non celestial builds.

And I’d say It’s a rebalancing. It will shift meta’s again. and celestial will always be the stat with no defects… but you’ll lose your maxed stats.

Did you also consider builds like condition dmg, toughness, healing or power toughness healing in your remark?

Also I noticed my numbers taken fform the wiki are in error with regard to celestial. they are the unmodified number (pre 23 june), and should therefore be multiplied by 1.3 and as such:

There is a reason why 80% of the people play celestial at this moment… it’s because it will always have an angle where it will be more powerfull to other builds.. even though it has less stat points compared to other builds. It will mean in 3 attribute fields it will outperform other builds. be it defensive, condition dmg or healing, the advantages are real. always delivering a more stable build.

6*640 (3840) attribute points from celestial
and runes of divinity will add 78*6 = 468 points
compared to
2*931+1381 (3243) attribute points from any 3 stat combination (and runes will add 175+100 =275 or 175+ 125 (300) (runes of the pack only) points

SHOWS why celestial is more powerfull… It has over 18% more stat points in total…
if you’d include divinity runes compared to 2 stat runes it becomes 21.5%…. more stat points…

CELESTIAL IS ALREADY MORE POWERFUL.. You’d just improve healing for all -who use healing- and nerf it for those seemingly not needing it.

Lastly look at the values:

before the sugegsted change the person would have had
8250 +1.25 * 640 =9050 ponints of healing
after the suggestion the same build would have had:
5623 + ( 3 * 640) = 7563 healing and 19.2% boon duration

in the end it’s less loss then the zerk build had with
(8250 before and 5623 after) but it’s not over the top much…

I cannot believe this is actually a consideration.

@ Gaaroth & SirDrygan:

There is a -difference- between

Reducing base healing and improving scaling on healing power
effectively removing an amount of healing from all DPS-only characters
and adding a small percentage of healing to people healing

and

changing everybody to all out healers.

This suggested change only affects people without healing a bit and makes the people using healing have actual benefits. Just check it:

For example the guardian aforementioned.

• With zerk (or any non healing carrying armor)
  At present he has 8.250 health added for just pressing 6

• with celestial (533 healing) (CORRECTION should be 640)
  8250+ 1.25 * 533 = 8916 points of healing
  8250 +1.25 * 640 =9050 ponints of healing
• with a minor stat healing: (961 healing)
  he would get 8250 + (1,25 * 961) healing 9450 pomints of healing

• with a major stat healing (1381 healing)
  he would get 8250 + (1.25 * 1381) healing 9976 points of healing

• with clerics, healing runes , and stacked sigil of life signet of life and foods
  he would get 8250 + (1.25 * 2186) healing 10982 points of healing.

My suggestion would be to reduce BASE healing and double maybe even triple the scaling (I’ll go for 65% of present base and triple the healing scaling (and the boon duration added for the idea))

First base heal reduced to 65% of original : 8250 * 0.65= 5623

• with zerk (or any non healing carrying armor) the effect would be :
  pressing 6 would give 5623 healing and +0% boon duration

• with celestial 533 healing (CORRECTION should be 640)
  5623 + ( 3 * 533) = 7222 healing +16% boon duration
  5623 + ( 3 * 640) = 7563 healing and 19.2% boon duration
• with minor heal 961
  5623 + (3 * 961) 0 = 8506 healing +28.8% boon duration

• with major heal 1381
  5623 + (3* 1381) = 9766 healing + 41.4% boon duration

• with maxed out heal 2186
  5623 + (3*2186) = 12181 + 65% boon duration.
  this would effectively add 10% to the max healing of a character if he’s fully specced.
  BUT IT WOULD MAKE HEALING A USEFULL STAT. Literally all others would be slightly reduced.

Also this would reduce healing by 33% for people completely ignoring the stat making this game a bit harder. but not impossible.

Remember:

We are still surviving through ACTIVE defence, dodges, reflects, blinds, aegis, protection, weakness and so on.

Guards have 1 healing skill whcihh does 8.25k healing base (no healing power involved and 1.25 (highest modifier in all healing skills) * healling power. with the small remark gaurds alkso have the highest atainable healing power in the game ~2150 excluding the bonus from mace. so their heal can heal for 11k easy… with the gaurds having a 13k healthpool… not figuring in regen, (mace auto heal), heal on dodge and self regeneration.

Elementalists do not really heal or that much, but have acces to healing on several skills and on dodge with evasive arcana as well as a regen when in water. Also water fields and the fact most ele’s have 3 heals on staff and more on other sets can make ele’s heal quite effectively, which still ha slittle to do with healing as

• the regen scales bad
• regeneration scales bad
• water & blasts scale bad. it’s the amounts of blasts and the pulsating field

These 2 examples are due to bad balancing (high base, low scale) not due to healing power. If the ele wouldn’t be in celestial gear healing would be nearly the same. same for the guardian, if the guardian wouldn’t be in clerics gear (but knights for example) almost all skils would do nearly the same healing EXCEPT the heals on dodge. They are the only skill/ability which does really scale….
If the healing (BASE) would be lowered the 2 proffesions in this example actually could be facing some trouble.. due to the fact they can no longer rely on base heals that much…
But in case of the celestial and the clerics they would actually benefit from the inproved scaling it. Making HEALING a factor in the build. and healing no longer as useless, also the improved boon duration would make for some added regen and protection in the builds mentioned.

Narrrz.7532:

hmmm. healing power could perhaps be converted into “willpower”, increasing incoming boon duration & outgoing condition duration, as well as raw healing power…

if some change can be made to make it an effective stat, i’m all for it, though the problem is that the game just doesn’t justify itemizing for support stats enough to justify having three of them (my opinion, obviously)

in essence, for healing power to be useful, it must provide an increase to survival in line with toughness (vitality, as i mentioned in my thread, is already not worth taking above the barest minimum), or else must also contribute positively to dps to such an extent that it’s worth dropping one of the other damage stats to take it.

in its present form i don’t think it adds positively to the game; i think it muddles the already bloated pool of worthless stat combos. This needs to change, and the most straightforward way is just to take out the stat; if ideas like this one can be implemented to make the stat worth taking, that’s just as good.

Healing power as is is a very nice option , but not worth the investment at this moment in time as all other stats give better revenue.

I hope we will see healing reworked in the future. I’m also glad there are multiple threads regarding healing in the forum at this time showing tghere’s both a wish from the public to have healing improved as well as a group who actuively tries to get this done. I’ll try to keep my suggestion aliver for now. and will try to discuss my ideas on other threads as well.

we get some free shield generators to try out in the BL’s?

Doubt we can keep the remaining gold…

I am good, we’ll see

Well it’s starting to collapse… At 13 MB/s now

we’ll see. Cause it’s out of peak hours I can get some DL above the official speed, but I gues 13 Gb isn’t accepted in the fair use policy -.-

I should stay at 13-15 though as it’s the maximum for my connection officially.

I’m DL-ing ok with the new client as well…

Loaidng time is increased 3 to 4 times on SSD (from less then 15 secs to 45+) and FPS took a nosedive at 32 FPS now before 60+

GPU’s at 60%… Looks beautiful though,
removing water reflections insta ups FPS by 20.

Solved for me. proabbly the server was still patching

Code 19:9:13:1446:101

played just before the patch.

Winauth states you need to write down the code.

if you do not you do not have a backup.
Which ALSO can cause poroblems when migrating to WIN 10…

make more alts

You could lose some in other ring sets or trinket sets,,

ascended armor for other classes then main only…

But I’m at 90 atm with 17 alts 5 have ascended armor 15 have weapons abd 15 have trinkets

Matt.3280:

PaxTheGreatOne.9472:

I’m missing the Carapace backpack in the Gemstore?

But on the concrete side:

Does SMAA need to be ativated in the drop down menu? Are there problems like not running in SLi or Windowed? Or is it something which goes undetected and just runs in the background??

please advise.

That it’s missing from the UI is a bug. Hope to correct that soon. Then you’ll be able to select it from the drop down. Sorry for the inconvenience.

I trust you’re working on it, I’ll see my 13 old toons repaired ASAP, back woith my completely unlocked S2 completely finished S2 (including every last achievement) and will do some dungeons on newer ones.. But one of those newer toons is really really looking forwar to her new backpack skin… How could you have forgotten to include it?

When it’s all done I’ll check it on your new SMAA and hope for some improvement on texture/colors/rendering/speed…

Good luck with fixing the world .

2 weeks maybe 3.

I doubt you had 1200 hero points, you only get heropoints for leveling and the actual skill chellenges, the SKILL POINTS have been turned into spirit shards in your wallet in your inventory.

I’m missing the Carapace backpack in the Gemstore?

But on the concrete side:

Does SMAA need to be ativated in the drop down menu? Are there problems like not running in SLi or Windowed? Or is it something which goes undetected and just runs in the background??

please advise.

I’ve been rethinking this again and again, and I’m at a point where I think my brainstorm has come up with 1 thing also posted in another thread.

Support is ESSENTIAL to DPS.

BUT support can be seen in a wide variety of ways:

Support:
Condition support:

• dazes/knockdowns/knockbacks/fear (interupting)
• stuns: no attacks possible
• chill: lengthening cooldown, sloing of enemy movement
• blinds: miss on next hit
• weakness: remove criticals from enemy attacks, 50% of the attacks will deal 50% dmg
• vulnerability: any damage will improve {stack amount} percentage
• poison: heals 33% less effective
• confusion: damage while using skills…
  (bleeds/burning/terror/confusion/chill) will be DOT for dmg as well

Boon support

• aegis: block 1st incoming attack.
• regeneration: regainhealth over time
• protection: reduce incoming dmg by 33%
• retaliation: returns some dmg for each hit
• quickness: faster attacks
• might: added power and condition dmg
• fury: added critical chance
• stability: invunerable to movement impeding conditions
• stealth/invisibility: impossible to hit
• vigor added endurance regen…

Other:

• reflects no dmg from ranged,return ranged dmg
• blocks no incoming ranged dmg

Direct healing / support

• condition removal, remove stacks from the condition barr
• heals adds healthpoints

And as is

• full glass DPS builds due to the fact they can KILL ALL before they get below dangerous values of health…

Why is support essential? A lot of builds contain traits which give buffs above 90% health
To make sure you maintain maximum dps it is usefull to stay close to 100% full health….

Healing and condition removal are important when boons and utility run out. Problem is no enemies are so dangerous (read: have the time to do so much damage) when using zerk you need to resort to last ditch removals and heals…

Generally AOE blindness,aegis, reflects and block, weaknesss. protection and MAYBE regen are enough… maybe with some condition removal to make sure you do not go under 90% (often/ever)

This also shows healing as stat is no longer interesting, with only regen being influenced by healing and the enemy will not be able to hurt the party -at all- anyways, so healing if people carry an AoE heal will be sporadic, still not creating a need for Healing as a stat

This will not be possible when parties have people running vitality or toughness, due to them lacking DPS pressure and the window becomes to long where you need to survive on those damage mitigators. the toughness carrying groups will not need alot of added healing, But vitality based caracters will however… They need healing to regain health, and in case of deep investment they’ll need people with healing as a stats to fill in their builds.

so regarding importance of stats:

1. power
2. condition dmg
3. precision
4. ferocity
5. toughness
6. vitality
7. healing

I’d love to see healing buffed

Suggestion would be to make

• Boon duration scaling from healing (suggest 3% per 100 healing +40% at 1381 healing)
• Heals: base heals only 50% effective compare to what they are now
• Heals: heal scaling of skills by 2,5-5 times better
• Heals: make vitality be an added modifier for any heals on the reciever. I suggest 3% for each 100 points above 1000 (base vitality) with max vitality 1381 you’d recieve a 40% buff to your healing. at 1000 you just recive the normal healing. It will reward both vitality and healing a bit lifting them to be on par with toughness.

But these suggestion will not make ’m overpowered in my opinion and the 2 stats will probably still on the bottom of the list as they do NOT AFFECT DAMAGE! (maybe in might and fury uptime, thats the influence as far as I can see ….)

Boons:

• aegis: block 1st incoming attack.
• regeneration: regainhealth over time
• protection: reduce incoming dmg by 33%
• retaliation: returns some dmg for each hit
• quickness: faster attacks
• might: added power and condition dmg
• fury: added critical chance
• stability: invunerable to movement impeding conditions
• vigor added endurance regen…

I remember the 2136 max healing and the 981 from minor stat based heals

2136 would give +64% boon duration (with some healing runes it would reach the cap for boons (100%).) and 981 would give 28,5% boon duration.
which could reintroduce booners and healers as support classes. being limited to not lethal skills I think this should be a possibility also I do not think this would break the game. but please correct me if it does.

I am just thinking of Carrion,
Condition dmg, vitality (then to incorporate healing), and power..

I’d alter it and say healing stats as is,
scaling should be improved, base heal should be lowered and
at 1000 vitality you recieve the normal healing MODIFIED by additional vitality, could add 2% effectivenes per 100 vitality on receiver only..
at max vitality it would add 36% to the normal heal..

I’d suggest:

• halving the base healing on regens, heals, weapon skills traits and utilities
• improving the scaling of said skills with healing, multiplying healing scaling with a factor 2.5-4 (maybe 5 in some -rare- cases) at least (3?)
• coupling boon duration to healing
• healing efectiveness should be affected by (receivers) vitality… no I’m not joking…
  maybe base 1000 vitality shoud equal 100% of the conventional heal and each added 100 vitality should add a couple 2% (maybe 3?), with 1831 added (max) vitality (Without Runes/Food) possible for added 18.310 HP maybe this could be supported by 36.6% (2%) added healing effectiveness , 36.6% would be an added 3300 points on a 9000 pt base heal , or 55% (3) FOR an added 4950 points on a 9000 point base heal?

Understand I’m not saying gw should move towards to the trinity, but as healing is useless in most builds… Some improvement is really wanted…

I doubt this game is limited to zerk and sin tbh, as sinister also has decent options…
At least when speaking PvE only.. outside PvE things really change….

Support is ESSENTIAL to DPS.

BUT support can be seen in a wide variety of ways:

Support:
Condition support:

• dazes/knockdowns/knockbacks/fear (interupting)
• stuns: no attacks possible
• chill: lengthening cooldown, sloing of enemy movement
• blinds: miss on next hit
• weakness: remove criticals from enemy attacks, 50% of the attacks will deal 50% dmg
• vulnerability: any damage will improve {stack amount} percentage
• poison: heals 33% less effective
• confusion: damage while using skills…
  (bleeds/burning/terror/confusion/chill) will be DOT for dmg as well

Boon support

• aegis: block 1st incoming attack.
• regeneration: regainhealth over time
• protection: reduce incoming dmg by 33%
• retaliation: returns some dmg for each hit
• quickness: faster attacks
• might: added power and condition dmg
• fury: added critical chance
• stability: invunerable to movement impeding conditions
• stealth/invisibility: impossible to hit
• vigor added endurance regen…

Other:

• reflects no dmg from ranged,return ranged dmg
• blocks no incoming ranged dmg

Direct healing / support

• condition removal, remove stacks from the condition barr
• heals adds healthpoints

And as is

• full glass DPS builds due to the fact they can KILL ALL before they get below dangerous values of health…

Why is support essential? A lot of builds contain traits which give buffs above 90% health
To make sure you maintain maximum dps it is usefull to stay close to 100% full health….

Healing and condition removal are important when boons and utility run out. Problem is no enemies are so dangerous (read: have the time to do so much damage) when using zerk you need to resort to last ditch removals and heals…

Generally AOE blindness,aegis, reflects and block, weaknesss. protection and MAYBE regen are enough… maybe with some condition removal to make sure you do not go under 90% (often/ever)

This also shows healing as stat is no longer interesting, with only regen being influenced by healing and the enemy will not be able to hurt the party -at all- anyways, so healing if people carry an AoE heal will be sporadic, still not creating a need for Healing as a stat

This will not be possible when parties have people running vitality or toughness, due to them lacking DPS pressure and the window becomes to long where you need to survive on those damage mitigators. the toughness carrying groups will not need alot of added healing, But vitality based caracters will however… They need healing to regain health, and in case of deep investment they’ll need people with healing as a stats to fill in their builds.

so regarding importance of stats:

1. power
2. condition dmg
3. precision
4. ferocity
5. toughness
6. vitality
7. healing

I’d love to see healing buffed
Suggestion would be to make

• Boon duration scaling from healing (suggest 3% per 100 healing +40% at 1381 healing)
• Heals: base heals only 50% effective compare to what they are now
• Heals: heal scaling of skills by 2,5-5 times better
• Heals: make vitality be an added modifier for any heals on the reciever. I suggest 3% for each 100 points above 1000 (base vitality) with max vitality 1381 you’d recieve a 40% buff to your healing. at 1000 you just recive the normal healing. It will reward both vitality and healing a bit lifting them to be on par with toughness.

But these suggestion will not make ’m OP and the 2 stats will probably still on the bottom of the list as they do NOT AFFECT DAMAGE! (maybe in might and fury uptime, thats it)

Boons:

• aegis: block 1st incoming attack.
• regeneration: regainhealth over time
• protection: reduce incoming dmg by 33%
• retaliation: returns some dmg for each hit
• quickness: faster attacks
• might: added power and condition dmg
• fury: added critical chance
• stability: invunerable to movement impeding conditions
• vigor added endurance regen…

I only played Gw1, whith regard to MMO’s (even though GW1 wasn’t a real MMO)

I do want to say toughness has rewards, vitality and healing are next to useless except in combination with all stats….. or in WvW….

Brother Grimm.5176:

Another post from someone that really does not understand how the game was designed to NOT be like “other” MMOs. I GET that new players want to play what they are used to doing in other games, but just because you CAN’T does not make GW2 “broken”….it’s just different. You can either embrace it or (per OP post) attempt to request that it be made just like all the other MMOs out there (a pointless quest).

Also, the “Cult of Zerker” issue is purely a Dungeon/Fractal thing (and only if you are trying to farm the mode for max profit vs time). The idea that this nitch mode needs “fixing” to the detriment of the rest of the game is quite narrow minded and selfish.

The cult of zerker starts with all PvE , moving to dungeons and fractals, making a modest pass through WvW roaming.

I’d suggest against running some proffesions as zerk in PvP but… guess what? Some are actually quite powerful!

Feralnex.4072:

Short topic: What about adding mounts to the game? It would give to game some life! I know that it would destroy game style but this game is too monotonic and some big changes would save it from falling… This game need some Raids too, it would be awesome. What’s your opinion?

Please read this thread completely and try again.

armor stayed the same, attributes however were raised 30%

Lol gear score…

people run full zerk want to see power/precision/ferocity and a power based rune, but they seldomly or never check the sigils, check for food or other things really adding to dps.

I run l80 exp with my zerker gear, I prefer ppl knowing what to do insted just being able to stand in the same place and press 1111111111111.

Many a zerk run doesn’t even stack might. leaving a lot to the PS, if he runs PS.

Jana.6831:

PaxTheGreatOne.9472:

But your thief uses another mechanic to stay alive, instead of toughness it relies on not getting hit through stealth otherwise known as an active defence (like blinds, aegis, weakness, protection, stealth or invisibility (looks the same, is not the same) and DODGING… {corrections made for clarity}

No, my thief doesn’t survive because of blinds as I’m running 11001 in dungeons. Cloaked in shadows is in the third line². I used that before but in the end I’m doing the same everybody else does – I dodge. And even if – your argument was that people use clerics instead of valk and that’s not really true- my problem usually isn’t direct damage, my problem are condis. And for that valk is the way to go – but valk also helps against direct damage as I have a higher health pool, so something hits me slightly harder but I have a slightly higher health pool than someone wearing clerics.

No I was talking cavaliers. (toughness/power/ferocity) as a damage mitigation instead of valkyrie (power/vitality/ferocity), clerics was only mentioned briefly with regard to the recent nerfing of most minor healing sets (being mentioned as not being afflicted by this heal nerf) and is only relevant when talking about healing builds and your thief isn’t a healer. Cavaliers has no precision , so adding some assasin to buff precision is an option.
Also conditions are easily cleansed by aoe condition cleans (light fields & whirl?) or shout cleanses ? maybe a support character can give youi some suggestions, guards warriors? or use a condition removing sigil?

Jana.6831:

²*For skills I use Shadow Refuge, blinding powder and smoke screen and surprise I use none of these skills for myself but to rez my party members* or to blind mobs if my party is about to be wiped.

So you do use stealth for defence instead of toughness… and other active defences, stealth to make sure you do not get hit, added to the other active defences (smoke screen is a block/blind… so a typical example)

Jana.6831:

PaxTheGreatOne.9472:

You are using a dungeon set, with some precision replaced by vitality.
IMHO You are running thief in WvW as in a dungeon, though I’d probably run full zerk in dungeon. (used to run valkyrie (chest/legs) myself on thief , now changed it to Zerk. And in WvW I’d probably go valkyrie with assassins (and maybe some zerk).

Thanks for this insight and that has to do with what? I only explained how it comes that I ran valk in dungeons – because I was running around with that gear anyway and because it worked/works. I just showed I have some other idea’s I didn’t say you made a bad choice, I even said i used it before.

I’m primarily used to play dungeon and WvW, Valkyrie is a WvW set in my eyes, in dungeons I’d expect most thieves to run full zerk. I made a error in asuming you were a WvW runner as well.

Jana.6831:

PaxTheGreatOne.9472:

If you wouldn’t have stealth would you still use Valk?

I don’t know, I can run any dungeon with no matter what class (although I have never done one with my engi), most of them are full zerker. But I guess I’m the most useful with my thief as that’s the class I can play best. And by the way, I also have an full zerker thief and I survive with him just as good. But truth be told: my dungeon groups are usually pretty good, so part of my survival is because of a good guard.

I’m glad you like thief, but why do you think people would run support or toughness or healing?

Do you think your story has relevancy? I think so:

You seem to need to rely on healing from your partner ( blinds/aegis/reflects/heals/protection/regeneration)
You seem to need added condition removal (often used by support builds, you can heal people up but if they still have their 25+ stacks of -fill in name here- they’\ll continue to die faster.

In the end you can be what you are due to a support based character, even if he runs full zerk. Showing support is neccesary.
But it’s at present impossible to build ANY compeditive build for support other then zerk in dungeons or PvE, showing the system is broke, as anyone can support enough being full dps without any support or healing, which to the original poster and me shows the system as is IS broken.

2 years ago the shout heal builds and mace guardian were frowned upon but they have use, with the new system I see more guardian using mace.
At least when not using “sinister15 stack burning cheese builds”.

This original post was regarding power/precision/ condition dmg and ferocity being so OP the other stats were considered broken in the build system, the build system is both the attribute choice and the trait selection, at least so it was interpreted by me

Jana.6831:

PaxTheGreatOne.9472:

knight and valkyrie?

No they wouldn’t… They’d use cavalier and zerk/sin as the only thing you need to surviuve would be toughness. DPS counter = toughness…

vitality is stricken as the larger healthpool will make draining it a little bit timeconsuming but NO CHARACTER CAN REFILL IT AGAIN! due to the dumb way healing functions. Thge fact it did grow makes for an even worse problem when trying to get your healthpool refilled. worsening its problem,

As a matter of fact my main, who’s the strongest out of all my thieves (I also have a full zerker), uses valk armor, rest zerker – that’s my wvw setup and I ran with that gear and also the traits for forever, no matter whether PvE or WvW. He’s the strongest because of his runes of strength. Since he’s mainly a D/D thief my valk armor is as good as zerkers, damage wise. My other (zerker) thief would be only marginally stronger with runes of strength (he’s using pack) – My valk armor does help me if I’m stupid, although it’s only 2,2k more health and my guard buddy can refill my health to 100%. So yeah, there are these insane people who use valk.

But your thief uses another mechanic to stay alive, instead of toughness it relies on not getting hit through stealth otherwise known as an active defence (like blinds, aegis, weakness, protection, invisibility (looks the same, is not the same) and DODGING… You are using a dungeon set, with some precision replaced by vitality.
IMHO You are running thief in WvW as in a dungeon, though I’d probably run full zerk in dungeon. (used to run valkyrie (chest/legs) myself on thief , now changed it to Zerk. And in WvW I’d probably go valkyrie with assassins (and maybe some zerk).

If you do not get hit you do not need toughnes and the added vitality will keep yopu alive longer if your target proved to be a conditions user. As I recall thieves are not masters at condition removal…

If you’d use cavaliers you could go acro (not that I’d advise it, but you could) with valkyrie acro would be a suicide, especially with the added stamina now gone from traits…

You know as well as I do if you’d be in the melee group your thief would melt.
If you wouldn’t have stealth would you still use Valk?

knight and valkyrie?

No they wouldn’t… They’d use cavalier and zerk/sin as the only thing you need to surviuve would be toughness. DPS counter = toughness…

To refill huge health pools you need healing , but if you use toughness you mitigate damage and you do not need this healthpool, also you will not need healing as is as the base healings are suffice to say plenty to fill the gaps.

So effectively this game has 5 stats:
power
precision was retuned giving no additional benefits. (not nerfed, neither boosted)
ferocity
condition dmg
toughness
These 5 were all buffed when the june 23 patch hit.

condition duration wasn’t available from gear and stayed equal most trait lines containing condition duration were “power” lines not used by condtion builds in the first place

And why do the other stats not count

boon duration was nerfed, and the result ing maximum boon duration is now less then 50% (45% unless speccing food and such) destroying any chance for DPS buff.
Boon duration was often coupled with defensive and/or healing stats

healing was nerfed on all people NOT running full healing armors (including zealot, cause they do not have trinkets, nomads cause it’s a minor stat, shamans, apothecary and so on.) Safe to say most interesting healing / DPS builds are non viable atm. The 300 points removed means they were being nerfed 20-33% instead of recieving a buff due to the boosts in stats for the above mentioned stats. Often in combat or otherwise temporary and conditional buff were put back in to replace the former 300 healing…

vitality is stricken as the larger healthpool will make draining it a little bit timeconsuming but NO CHARACTER CAN REFILL IT AGAIN! due to the dumb way healing functions. Thge fact it did grow makes for an even worse problem when trying to get your healthpool refilled. worsening its problem,

I could use some zealot’s trinkets…

Well the game is far from dead, we’re close to an expansion. You decide.

levelling is just to know your class, you are now level 80 you are allowed to be anywhere in the game. It’s like starting to drive and now you have your license…

Enjoy the Ride!

On maps:

• get all story modes on dungeons
• go play dungeons,
• get dungeon master
• get dungeoneer
• do worldbosses,
• get all achievements regarding tequatl and triple wurm
• get 70 AR and become lvl 50 fractals
• get world completion
• get ascended on all 8, soon tm to be 9, characters at least trinkets and weapons
• get a (or many) legendaries
• do jumping puzzles
• get the diving achievement
• farm Silverwastes
• farm Cursed shore (and the rest of Orr)
• farm Frostgorge sound
• farm Dungeons
• farm Worldbosses
• get map(completion) on all characters, (do not do so each after another as it will get boring. I only unlock Hero points and Waypoints nowadys, but I have 9 times world completion, I do not have world on engineer though.

You need something too choose

• go collection hunting
• go get all your pets on ranger (you do need something to choose?)
• get Emperor title
• go get all skins (maybe something different to wear?)
• go get all dyes (A different color?)
• get twice told legend (just because you can )

You could also

• figure out builds that are not metabattle and enjoy those
• unlock Living story season 2 (you can buy gems from gold.)
• remake all characters or get 8, soon to be 9, more and do everything with a condi build…

And if that doesn’t cut it:

• get Yakslapper. (WvW joke )
• get full Radiant and Hellfire armors (general joke )
• buy all Black Lion Tickets skins
• collect as many titles you can…

Endgame is more then just doing wvw and PvP but if you like it don’t hold yourself back

• do wvw and get rank 9999
• do pvp and get rank dragon, unlock all reeward tracks FULLY.

Come back when your done

Cause there are 100 players in peak hours there are also hours where all population fo a server can be counted on your 2 hands, and in case of t1 maybe your toes added.

I’ve run night shifts even on SFR where we had 4 ppl on 4 maps. so solo capping tends to be a thing.

I’ll be frank -light fields- are very underused for condition removal as well.. (guard/necro/mesmer/engineer)

Light field and finishers:
Projectile Remove Condition Conditions Removed: 1
Whirl Cleansing Bolts Conditions Removed: 1

And yes fire mighty have goten better on the high end, it’s why all guardians now run sinister condition builds >.> right, as thier condition builds will outdo their actual damage as a zerk by a factor 3 (judge’s intervention and purging flames with whirl from GS (15 stacks burning with runes of balthazar (+40% burning duration) and the burns from virtue of justice…)… , at least the burst does.,.. some bring a sword/torch as well.. and swap out of staff to GS. (pre might…) dunno haven’t tried. I do not even have a condition build on Guard.

Best way would be to lower the stacks drastically or nerf the whirl… the actual DOT from burning is ok.

Maybe later, I’d prefer a working HoT first.

-.-

/15 char

xDudisx.5914:

Things that could help solving the problem:

1. -Nerf burning base dmg
2. -Make precision have diminish returns like toughness. Instead of linear can make it logarithmic.
3. -Reduce base healing and increase the scaling with healing power. Similar to what they did to warrior shouts. That way you don’t have people that run no healing power and still heal crazy amounts.
4. -Reduce base endurance regen. Shortage of dodges make you think more strategically when to use them and moves some builds away from the state of imune/dodge spam.

1. Might happen personally I find the burning atm moment rather weak In the past my fuly buffed mesmer could do 1 burn but burn 1150 /tick, now burning is 450/ tick only more stacks, I’d advise not to stay in the fields… but if they do they should repair some of the DPS loss from bleeds and poison. They are horridly underwhelming..
2. precision is fine. It wasn’t scaled in fact @ 23 june, it remains the same.in scaling (so points needed have been raised 30%.
3. Yes, please?
4. -NO- you want to be alive longer make sure you can dodge instead of having dodges removed. full tanky builds still suffer a lot of dmg, mostly because ppl do not dodge,

I do not agree the powercreep is solely responsible.

Healing and vitality are not balanced to support eachother, toughness was somewhat usefull vs DPS in the past and is now completely passed by by the conditions.

Some focus should shift to repairing and rebalancing healing . Also the general consensus of DPS is everything will be broken when people start dying from condition dmg every 2 minutes due to them not wanting to take a condition clear.

I do not yet see any use in Healers and Tanks I do see use for greatly improved (AOE) heals , AOE clears and other support buffs, which were all negatively affected by the 23 june patch

The huge and overwhelming amount of people swtching to (hybrid-) condition builds, the unlimited stacking of poison and fire have already caused some (wel in our low tier WVW server dozens die in incredulous short time) victims. But Condition removal would be very usefull…
The huge amount of DPS increwase due to builds now focussing on maximized traits instead of stats points has created a minor power spike, rendering toughness less valuable and more hit points

Healing was NERFED in most cases, when considering celestial of power/ and minor healing combo’s healing lost 20-33% effectiveness while poeple neeede more HP to counter the huge spikes. Only FULLY (read: major stat healers, healing runes, sigil of life, dedicated food) dedicated healers gained a small amount of healing… a couple of dozen to be exact..

The fact DPS and Conditions hae both been boosted and Toughness cannot counter 1 of those 2 and is less effective each time power creeps up do not help balance.
Vitality has been boosted as well, and every player gained 750 added health points, but healing cannot fill it’s role. Only 100% full healers have had a margnally boosted effect from healing. Marginally….

I do not think making (y)our character a health bag fixes the problem. I might see uses in healing (and/or vitality) to reduce condition duration yes or maybe just better scaling of healing (related skills with vitality and healing. (regen and so on)

my SSD is a bit bogged down but still manages 12-20s depending if it’s LA or not…

stof.9341:

That’s not how EHP works.

Say, I have a heal that gives me 5k HP every 30s. And someone is attacking me doing 150 damage every second. How much effective HP do you think I have in this situation?

An infinite amount, that’s right.

Healing power scaling leads to infinite EHP with a finite amount of stats. Thoughness can do that too but the difference is that is scales worse than healing in this case so it’s more manageable.

If someone is attacking you in that case with 150 it’s either a nomads/magi build using ranged weapons and in all other cases they’d be above that limit.

Present heals do mostly 5-10k / 20s and you are hit with hits for 1000-1500 on average every second or faster so EHP is drained before your heal arrives. Even if that heal would manage to fill your healthbar with 15k HP in most cases you still have a good damage result and a draining healthpool.

As the damage here does outweigh the difference (1000*20 = 20k and max heal is 10k) you would be dead, if you do not manage to dodge/ avoid 50% of the hits. otherwise you’ll need heal to refill it before this time..
present heals are 1.5(shout heals)- 4k(healing spring/well of blood) health… or water blasts for 2k health…

your previous example for the 5 k heal with a steady “pressure of 150 pts/s” will never die, but with a second player doing 150 pts/s it will however… as the 2 attacks combined would do 9k dmg vs your 5k healing showing it should die eventually if you can maintain the pressure, In your example you were effectively creating a “Tank” , the tank would also die fast if he’d be focussed with conditions though… as they stack next to the basic dmg….

You should also be aware most groups 2 vs 1 to make sure they kill faster. in PvP you generally see 2 groups of 2 and 1 “tankier build” for platform defence and scouting… in some cases 3,1,1… nobody just goes and solo’s everything unless they have a HUGE DPS and good survivability (invisibility or superior range or other guranteed defence options.) problem is heals never are able to counter such DPS,

The 12k backstab still haunts me… As do confusion stackers and firebombs

The numbers 10 and even 15k heal would still leave room for kills,
At present Signet of Resolve has a base healing of 8,500 health but only a 1.25 multiplier, so you will get 8.5k anyways, but if you go deep into healing you get 11,2k… like that’s a good investment…?

it would also create room for 2 or 2,5 (IMHO even 3, 4 and maybe even 5) healing scale multipliers understand the max healing I mentioned is only possible on guardian
most other classes are stuck around 1750 points. this also means if you have a multiplier of 5 you will do 8750 healing…. on top of your base heal…

But when considering
Signet of resolve
present 8,5k base and scaling 1,25) and an
example of
7.5k base multiplier of 2 and 2.5) ,
based on 981 (max minor stat excluding buffs ) healing
and 2186 healing (maxed out healing including runes, food, sigil, utility and major stats)

These added values result in~2000-4400 and 2500-6600 ADDED healing respectively On a basic heal e.g. 7.5k with the 2.5 multiplier this would result in heals for 10k-14.k1
compared to 8.5k base and 9.75k and 11,25 leaving healing buil;ds with something up their sleeves. instead of nothing for their investments. It would mean you do not NEED healers but a healer would benefit ppl and in no way they’d be OP.

Healing was already pretty low in it’s rewards, it’s the most unrewarding attribute to spec in.

the +30% stat increase did actually change the healing values to it original values for major stats on armors.. at least for Clerics and Magi. They went up a couple of dozen points compensating the trait line point removal as such the 30% didn’t affect major tarited healers, (CLERICS/MAGI)

There is no actual MINOR HEALING BASED ASCENDED TRINKET, you are left with Celestial or Clerics, Magi or a trinket with part Apothecary

Presently my necromancer with zealots armor has 645 healing ,795 healing in combat

he came from 496+300 = 796 points and the spite line trait: 7% of power is converted to healing (added 154 points) for total 950 healing
Which seems to account for for a 33% nerf OOC. When in combat the reduction is more then 17%…

Maybe this doesn’t sound significant, but It does feel like it

If I look at the trinkets I can compare with Zealots healing with ferocity values on zerk rings:

Amulet 108 points
Ring x2 85*2 points (170)
Earring x2 74*2 points (148)
or a total of 426 points…

This would instantly fix the weak feel of my zealot builds…

Regarding ascneded : No zealot, no shaman…. and lot’s of others missing, mostly with minor healing ? They just do not exist at all. [correction there’s : Ventari (ascneded Nomad’s) but it seems to lack synergy with zealots. maybe case toughness and vitality do not improve the power and precision very well.]

Just get me my rings and trinkets first, so I can actually make use of my build again. You an argue there is exotic Zealots, but I run fractals and WvW. I prefer to have slots for AR and WVW…

Then CONTINUE and update the scaling healing providing traits/ runes/sigils/skills/life steals /elites. All should have scaling. including those above mentioned life steals and Elites (Really? Yes, cause they give HP: it’s HEALING. ) I’d even accept a small nerf in base values

And scaling should be allowed to count for something, …. to invest 1/3rd of your stats in something and to get a tiny fractional revenue from them seems dumb…

All dps was buffed somtimes more then 20% but healing no… healing stayed the same and in many cases it DID get nerfed, unless you run Full Cleric or Magi. (Edit: or full Nomads)

Well necro can stay up while party goes down… I’ve been the last living soul in dungeon parties often…. but I run a glass hybrid terrormancer setup.. dps necro is boring.
When hot arrives I’ll enjoy perma chill… WITH damage

They’ll çome back eventually, but first you’ll see the carapace backpack (butterfly wings)…

condi’s are here to stay….. but:

burning = OP atm
bleeds = too weak
poison = weak

the rest is fine.

Valderius Rex.4108:

Fikfain.5849:

@JonPeters…we’re closing in on a month since this was posted and no sign of an update that rebalances the game on its way. Can we get a timeline?

They’re aware of the problems and are actively tracking a fix. Here, have some cash shop skins!!!!!

I’m throwing money at the screen but my butterly wings havn’t arrived yet… seems not only their work is bogged but also the cash shop has a traffic jam..