i’ve proposed this solution before, but i’ll do it again anyway. divide the 24 hour period into 3 blocks. each block lasts 8 hours. for simplicity’s sake, we’ll call them block A, B, and C.
block A does their thing, then as it ends, everything on all 4 maps is saved. the entire state of all the structures, siege, upgrades. everyone gets sent back to LA for a couple of minutes as things shifts to block B. block B operates under its own saved state. so they go in and do their thing. the state of everything is saved again, and everyone is sent back to LA as block C starts. same thing a third time. when block C gets saved and shut down, block A gets loaded up. everything starts off exactly how it was left when block A ended the last time. the same thing for block B and C.
what you end up with are 3 different versions of the same match. each with its own score total running. so a server could end up with something like 50k points during block A, 125k points during block B and 75k points during block C. no one’s time would end up being less important than anyone else, and no one’s efforts would be made futile due to being night capped. multiple problems solved.
this idea is just off the top of my head, but they could even go a step further and only count a server’s two highest blocks in their overall score. so if server X nightcaps server Y, server X would still benefit from it, but server Y wouldn’t be crippled by it.
here’s the thing. glicko just plain isn’t designed for what they’re using it for. it assumes a 1v1, with relatively static variables. with a 1v1v1, where many many people can play during one week and not show up the next, it’s impossible for glicko to be accurate. the point system they used for the seasons was actually more accurate and had much faster responses to changes.
they could go with an identical point based system, but have it track back 10 weeks. as each new week started, the oldest week could be erased. the rankings would work out to be about the same as they are now, but more accurate in terms of immediate changes.
PPT doesn’t suck, not having enough coverage for all servers is what sucks. It is incredibly awesome to be able to log on at any time and have good large scale battles in WvW.
Hopefully either GW2 starts to attract more players or anet starts to attract more people into WvW so more servers can have this experience.
nah, PPT does suck. it’s extremely easy to manipulate and does more to encourage karma train style play than a strategic one. that being said, we’re stuck with it. there would need to be a replacement for it before they could even decide whether or not they wanted to replace it, and that replacement would need to be extremely convincing to even have a chance.
that being said, i do like the idea of NPCs fleshing out the gaps. what i’d be concerned about would be server load. all the players tend to stress things pretty heavily as it is. as each new player comes onto the map, a corresponding NPC would need to be either removed entirely or placed into some sort of temporary vault type of deal. that’s more signals that would need to be sent back and forth to everyone, which would add more weight to their already overburdened servers. unfortunately, the only real solution to the overburdened servers would be to redesign the game from the ground up, simplifying and condensing the systems to limit the amount of information that needs to be passed around. that’s not something that’s ever going to happen though. it would cost too much money with a comparatively tiny return. at the end of the day, money is more important to NCSoft than a quality product and their players. so we’re pretty much just stuck with what’s already there.
A good solution for this problem would be perma bans for trolls.
The best way to do that is they actually had GMs that would come inside the game to the zone and look for themselves
Problem is the parent company, NCSoft, is too cheap to put the resources into this. Most of the issues with the game in fact stem not from Anet but from NCSoft’s cheapness.
yup. the ironic part is, those GMs would end up paying for themselves, really. less players would be disgusted by the state of affairs, which would mean less players would be leaving, and there would be more players willing to help support the gme financially. as it is, there’s a lot of people who absolutely refuse to give them a dime, purely out of principle, and justifiably so. even if those players all were forking over cash, it would undoubtedly be used for more living story crap instead of what those players want.
i doubt NCSoft even remotely cares, though. they have their next big cash grab with wildstar coming out. they’ll continue squeezing all they can out of gw2 until it runs dry, then do the same with wildstar, then with whatever their next big con will be.
it’s not crying. it’s a legitimate problem in WvW. which…. means it won’t be long before they close the thread to sweep it under the rug. that’s part of the “ignore it and it will go away” method they’ve been employing with WvW since launch.
I don’t think it was done for any balance reason per se.
The obvious reason to change the way Critical-Damage works is because of scalability.
For future content, new levels and new gear you can’t have fixed % on gear. You need abstract numbers that are easier to scale.
WoW had the same problem in vanilla when their crit-chance was based on fixed-%. Obviously this doesn’t work well when you want to maintain the relative power of characters while still making them chase upgrades.
I’m not sure why ANet didn’t learn that from WoW in the first place.
Either way, the 10% nerf is probably just an attempt to reduce burst-damage that can be a tad excessive in this game. But it’s not the reason they changed the scaling of Crit-Damage.
If there is any indication then that they are future-proofing GW2 for future level-increases. So there you have it, we might yet see a new expansion.
actually, you can have fixed percentages on gear, providing you’re not creating a gear treadmill. you can’t easily add new tiers of gear in with percentages, but you can with the typical MMO math.
i’d guess that this is a fix for the additional damage ascended berserker gear was able to deal. which….. would indicate that ascended gear was just tacked on, as opposed to them having it planned to go in all along like they said when they first announced ascended gear a year ago.
all in all, i’d say it’s yet another black eye for gw2.
I don’t know why pug is a term being frowned up on. It shouldn’t have a negative effect. I called my self a pug before I started commanding. I know a lot of pugs are great roamers and help the cause of the server.
Edit: spelling.
the term itself is pretty neutral. what happens, though, is that people use it in a negative way. “stupid pugs”, “worthless pugs”, and so on. so the term itself has gained a negative connotation and becomes an insult in itself. the irony, though, is that (at least in my observation) the ones that use it as an insult are usually the people that flat out need to be carried the most. they have a good commander that leads them to a lot of success, but when that commander isn’t around, they’re absolutely clueless. it certainly isn’t just limited to WvW. the same happens in dungeons. they run with a guild group, and the group succeeds. they run with pugs, and spend most of the time dead and complaining about what everyone who’s still alive was doing. it happens in all MMOs. on TOR, there was a PvP guild on the server i was on that would always be like “we’re the biggest PvP guild, you have to listen to us”. then when you’d get into a match, they’d be sitting in the acid pits to get their healing medals, or otherwise abusing the mechanics, or off in the middle of nowhere getting killed. they weren’t a PvP guild, they were a farming guild that used PvP. they had one guy in the beginning that did a good job, and a bunch of people trying to leech of the name he built. they were detriments, to be honest. and when they would lose matches, they’d blame everyone else. eventually some actual PvP guilds started forming, and those guys were awesome. when you got into a match and saw them on your side, you knew you were going in with a strong team.
it really boils down to this. when good players fail, they look for ways that they can improve for next time. when bad players fail, they look for someone to blame and if there’s anyone around that isn’t in their guild (a pug) that’s who they’re going to lay the blame on. if they blame their guild, they’ll get put in their place or booted. if they blame a pug, there’s no accountability there.
don’t get me wrong, i’d run into pugs that were clueless too. it honestly doesn’t matter what the tag over someone’s head says. good players are good players. bad players are bad players. that applies to both guilds and pugs. pugs are just easier to blame, so that’s what happens. which gradually causes more and more people to equate pugs and bad players. perception tends to be more important to people than reality.
it wouldn’t need to be mail. it could be the pop up chests like from WXP ranks or dailies. the delivery method really is just a minor easily altered detail.
So you want linear progression. If that works for you, that’s great.
I don’t particularly want linear progression. If I’m good enough to do a higher level dungeon without doing a lower level one, I should be able to.
linear has nothing to do with it. please don’t put words into my mouth, then argue against those. it doesn’t need to be a line. it can be more like a tree with branches, and that would actually be preferred. just some form of tangible progression that has nothing to do with grinding out new gear. i want goals and activities, not new shinies.
there’s nothing like that in the game currently. fractals don’t count because they’re the same thing over and over and over and over. the horizontal/vertical gear grind doesn’t count, because those are just carrots on sticks. they’re not content, and they didn’t even get horizontal gear progression right. horizontal progression is about adding ability variety, not aesthetics. but they crippled their ability to do a proper horizontal progression by making every stat and piece of gear solely about combat. combat should be just one category of many, with subdivisions underneath of it that correlate to the general build concepts.
so, there’s no activity progression (no, the LS isn’t activity progression. it’s story progression, which is usually just watching a movie in tiny chunks) gear progression is a mess. there’s no goals aside from “grind for higher pointless numbers”. whether those numbers are unccessary stat boosts from gear, the “achievement” points that are just a measure of how much someone’s grinded, some form of currency, most of which are useless (anyone remember the last time they needed karma?), or you can hop into WvW and grind out WXP because power creep it always a great addition to a PvP based game (sarcasm), or hop into sPvP to grind out glory that they’re apparently getting rid of. i don’t enjoy grindy games.
Phantom, your quarterback commander isn’t really a commander, he’s the strategist. But you do still put the tag up to assign waypoints right?
it’s definitely not the same as the current typical commander, but it’s technically still a commander since i would be issuing commands. it goes by a lot of different names, though. it’s just not a zerg commander. i’ve done the same while leading zergs as well, but it’s just a whooooole lot to try to take on all of it at once. your brain and fingers have to operate on overdrive, and it’s just exhausting. afterwards, i would feel fried and need a nap. if there’s someone else leading the zerg, it’s much easier to manage.
i’ve run with the tag and without the tag. squad chat was nice to avoid suppression, but the dorito itself caused a bit of confusion because people would occasionally shift over to me, and i’d have to keep redirecting them back. the only time i used the waypoints was when i was instructing someone to hit a spot they weren’t familiar with, or if i had to issue commands to a newer player. for the most part, i just made sure to use very clear wording and the people i was working with knew what i was talking about. once your entire core team is comfortable working with each other in that capacity, you don’t need to worry about having your dorito on at all. especially as more and more people on the server get familiar with how that system works.
the quarterback commander issues commands to each part of the whole. they don’t run around screaming for people to stack on them and blast fire fields. that’s where his buddy who has a dorito on would cover. but the one with the tag would be getting told where to attack/defend by the quarterback. what gate/wall to hit and what siege methods to use. the quarterback would also be doing the same things with the other teams. coordinating them all and directing each individual team to where they would be the most effective on the map. whether different entrances of the same targets, or different targets entirely. they can do this through team chat, or even party chat or through whispers if spies are a concern. because directing a team where to run to and attack isn’t something that the team only has a split second to react to and pull off. they can read it while on the move, change directions if needs be and start heading there, while the quarterback commander is telling the other teams where they’re needed to go. whether they need to assist the tag, or handle something on the opposite side of the map. so if you’re, say, on an away borderland, and want to take the garrison, the quarterback can tell the guy with the tag to have the zerg hit the watergate, then tell the havoc team to take the northern camps, and then tell the ninja team to try to steal the northern towers. it’s unified coordination, that’s actually pretty easy to pull off with just a small, cooperative starting core. truth be told, the entire rest of the map doesn’t even need to actually know who’s calling the shots. they can think the guy with the tag is, and that the guy from his guild in the smaller groups is leading each those groups. but the truth is, they’d all be taking orders from just one source, the quarterback commander. with militia/pugs, it’s actually more effective to have the quarterback issuing the orders through /team, because then they can see behind the scenes and really feel like they’re important parts in the grand scheme of things. when that happens, most enjoy WvW even more, and far more than just being a nameless face is a crowd. they also learn a great deal more about WvW as a whole, since they’re a direct part of all of the strategy that’s going on, and why everything is done the way it is. what areas are priorities, why they’re priorities, numerous different methods to attack and defend each of them, the importance of supply control, the importance of smaller groups, and just how much those small groups can accomplish. so it also helps train them, by making them more knowledgeable overall. they become self reliant, and some even become leaders themselves.
@Phantom -snip-
it’s actually not that difficult to organize, really. i’ve done it very very often over the past year and a half (very very rarely over the past 6 or so months though, since i retired from commanding) while primarily leading militia/pugs. you just need about 5 or 6 people initially to get it started, who aren’t going to get bruised egos because someone else is designating their targets. if those initial 5 or 6 are all part of the same guild, or at the very least friends, it’s very easy to pull off. 1 to represent each team i mentioned earlier. and those representatives would fill up their own parties through whoever on the map was willing to join them. the one steering the zerg would have the tag on, because all the blue dorito actually is, is a beacon to gather around.
that being said, this isn’t about leading a zerg. there’s a great deal more to WvW than just zerging. the vast majority of players never learn that. they just group up in their zerg, and assume that’s all there is. they’re wrong.
this style of commander wouldn’t be running with the zerg. it’s something that can be done from the citadel. it’s directing around the different divisions of troops, similar to something like risk or stratego. somewhere along the way, zergmanding became the only known style. there are many other styles beyond that, that are even more effective. when “he who is no longer allowed to be named on these forums” became popular, EVERYBODY clamored to copy his style, even down to the speech patterns. while he and his guild are absolutely incredible at open field fighting and GvG, they’re not really known for paying much attention to the objectives at all. the result is dozens of wannabes screaming into their headsets, while 5 people casually stroll in and take their waypointed garrison. then those wannabes blame everyone around them, instead of realizing that they’re nowhere near as good as the guy and guild they’re trying to imitate. they just fooled themselves into thinking they were awesome because they watched some youtube videos. with “he who is no longer allowed to be named” it’s kind of like the highlander, there can be only one. once people accept that they’ll never be him, they can stop ignoring all of the other aspects of WvW. a complete commander understands that the zerg is a part, but it certainly isn’t the whole.
(continued)
Progression doesn’t have to be about stats. And for me it isn’t about stats, it’s about reason.
Sweeping Generalizations
The game lacks progression because the idea behind it is very inclusive instead of exclusive. There is no reason to log in because you never fall behind (one reason they introduced LS was to give the illusion of falling behind). No one stands out, everyone is equal, everyone is the same. No one gets shut out of any content ever. You don’t have to do AC to experience Arah. You don’t have to do your personal story to get to Cursed Shore. You never have to craft. You never have to leave the starting zone, you can rescue bunnies till you fall over dead. You don’t have to do anything.
It’s the epitome of the casual MMO, and that’s a good thing for many players and I’m glad they made a game for that crowd. But progression minded players (horizontal or vertical) don’t have much to shoot for. It’s the Minecraft of MMO’s.
i understand what you’re saying entirely. if make a new character and get him to level 80, and decide that i’d like to run arah, all i would have to do is just go to arah. the same with everything else. i don’t even have to acknowledge the existence of the lower level dungeon leading up it. progression would be starting with only AC available, and having to complete it to unlock CM, and so on up the list until i’ve done them all and am able to do arah. the same with everything else you’ve mentioned. it has nothing to do with gear whatsoever, but about actions. needing to complete easy tasks before being able to graduate up to doing harder and harder ones. starting off at the bottom and working your way up through the ranks. that sense of accomplishment is pretty much nonexistent in gw2. to use an analogy, it’s the difference between starting off in the mailroom and working to be promoted higher and higher up the corporate ladder, and being able to just start off as the CEO right off the bat. when you look back, and see all that you had to accomplish to get where you are, it means a hell of a lot more to you than if it was just hand delivered to you from the get-go. it also gives you goals to strive for. if you start off at the top, there’s nothing left for you to shoot for. if you start off at the bottom and need to earn your way up, each step becomes a goal in itself. gear is so often viewed as progression simply because acquiring each tier is a ladder of goals in itself. once you get the top tier of gear, there’s no new goals, so most MMOs spew out another few tiers of gear every now because it’s absurdly simple to do from a developer standpoint. it’s also extremely lazy and unimaginative, but it’s been done by so many companies for so long that it’s just become the accepted practice as well as the accepted definition of the word progression. it doesn’t reflect well on MMOs as a whole, when you think about it.
there’s a……. different branch of commanding that seems to be pretty rare these days. it’s done through /team chat, and is extremely effective. while the concept is defined, there’s not really a definitive term for it. some call it a quarterback, some call it a lynchpin, some call it a delegation commander. regardless of what anyone prefers to call it, it requires having a few people who trust you, and a vision for the larger picture.
basically…. you’re dispatch. you’ll need 1 guy steering the zerg. they handle all the “stack, might, dodge left, push, etc” with the zerg combat in your VOIP. you have one guy organize a 5 mean team to do havoc work, and you direct him around. you have another organize a ninja team, and direct them around. have a few people scouting the map who are in your party. keep in constant communication with them, and utilize them as one force. an example would be (in very gerenal terms)“zerg hit the hills north gate. ninja team golem rush the hills south gate. havoc, take the NE, then SE camp. scouts, one poistion between the hills and (insert target server’s) closest waypoint and call out if anyone comes. the other look around for the next soft target” you can even take this a step further by organizing sentries and, if desired, yak escorts to handle the backlines work. you can even set up rotation schedules with the havoc, ninja, sentry and escort teams, so that no one’s stuck in the backlines for too long.
the problem is that this isn’t something you can just pop onto a map and start doing cold. you’ll end up stepping on a lot of toes that way, and will do more harm than good. you need to make sure those you’re directing around are ok with it before you start doing it. the most surefire way to do that is to set it up beforehand with a group of friends, and have each of them take on setting up those individual groups.
you’ll need to have a great deal of knowledge about WvW . multiple offensive siege placement locations for every area. (to give yourself multiple options to draw from) general map strategy. (what each server’s natural areas are, balance pushing intot he enemy areas without overextending your own defenders) map reading. (so you have a general idea of where your enemies are even if you can’t see them) a good understanding of strategic troop placement. (to have everyone’ actions compliment each other, and set up multipronged coordinated assaults) the ability to process everything everyone’s doing, and what your opponents are doing withing a very small timeframe (so you can utilize all of the groups quickly and effectively) fast typing. (so you can issue the orders to everyone without them needing to slow down) knowledge of each individual structure itself. (the order the upgrades should be bought in, the defensive siege placement spots, and each area’s weak spots)
this delves into a few problem areas with MMOs in general. the difference between a real challenge and an artificial challenge. mobs in PvE usually constitute an artificial challenge. that isn’t to say that PvE can’t be difficult, it usually is. however the difficulty is due to this artificial challenge. a real challenge revolves around approximately even terms. basically, both sides working within the same set of rules. before MMOs came out, NPC enemies in RPGs were built exactly the same as the player characters. the same rules and standards, the same abilities and spells. so if you fought a monster that was equal level to you, it would be a very difficult fight that you weren’t assured to win.
with MMOs, and most video games in general, that dynamic got tossed completely out the window. NPC mobs began operating under their own custom ruleset. they were given more HP and better damage.
That’s absolutely wrong. A decade before MMOs were invented games on the SNES like FInal Fantasy had monsters with 100x the health of a player.
two things. first, final fantasy is a video game. hence why i said “and most video games in general”. and second, decades before final fantasy was ever even dreamed of, D&D had monsters that operated under the same set of rules as the players. before the SNES was invented, Shadowrun had enemies that operated under the same set of rules at the players. coincidentally, both D&D and Shadowrun are still going strong all these decades later. in fact, (to kittenize a chris rock joke), if D&D woke up tomorrow with the same number of players as WoW, D&D would jump out of a kitten window.
good general ideas destroyed by zero forethought and the worst execution imaginable. poor communication (the quality, not necessarily the quantity). a whole lot of bark, very little bite. what was an extremely promising game at launch has devolved into just the typical bland MMO experience. grind grind farm grind. if you like MMO, there’s a chance you’ll like gw2. if you hate MMOs, avoid gw2 like it’s the plague. neglect of the stable playerbases in favor of throwing all resources at glorified tourism, while having no problem flat out insulting and alienating their most loyal players. a giant list of major bugs and exploits that have been around since the betas. hacks and other forms of cheating going completely unchecked, unless it means a dime less profit for them. it could have been the wave of the future, but if i was on the development team i would be humiliated by the entire past year.
amazingly good art and graphics though.
Actually, the problem with Teq isn’t that the event can easily fail – it’s more along the lines of being an open world event which needs at least 80 coordinated people who know the fight well and know exactly where to stand (the spots dealing damage to Teq are nothing but dps checks as well). Oh, and the fact that the event can be completely trolled by 8 or ten players sitting on the … thingies. God, it’s been ages since I’ve been there.
that’s a good thing, though. it’s a dragon fight. these things pretty much brought the planet to its knees. it should be an extremely difficult fight, that requires full scale coordination in order to stand an even chance. that’s what makes victory truly satisfying, instead of artificially satisfying by playing into people’s greed for imaginary loot. nothing worth having ever comes easily. if it came easily, it wouldn’t be worth having.
You can’t have challening dungeons requiring teamwork without the holy trinity.
You just can’t.
For all the people who don’t want a holy trinity, this is the alternative.
Truth. The only way to make a dungeon require teamwork is by making players dependent from team mates.
I think another way would be to add in class-specific challenges, which require a certain class to get through them. For example an engineer puzzle, a stealth assassination, a illusion game, a elemental challenge and so on and so forth.
i absolutely agree that dungeons should require teamwork, and that players should be dependent on their teammates. however, that can indeed be accomplished without the trinity system. roleplaying games have done it for decades before the trinity system was ever even thought up. MMOs shifted into the trinity system because a monkey could figure it out and build around it. it didn’t require actually having knowledge on how to make challenging encounters. all it required was a degree in computer programming and someone willing to pony up the cash for funding. in fact, that can be said about most aspects in most MMOs. they’re patchworks to cover up a lack of critical knowledge in the science of RPG creation. show me someone that’s been studying RPGs for 20 years, and i’ll show you someone that can make a MMO that will blow everything else out of the water. show me someone who just wants to make video games, and i’ll show you someone who would better off making a FPS. RPG creation is a science in itself, and one that most developers are completely ignorant of. the easiest way to tell is by just looking at the numbers. if they’re not something that players and quickly and practically manage and use on their own, it’s just not an RPG system. what’s worse is when numbers are needlessly inflated without serving any practical purpose other than “bigger numbers make stupid people feel more powerful”. that in itself is a complete illusion. no one’s more powerful, they just need to bust out a scientific calculator if they want to do anything involving the numbers on their own.
as far as a working system goes, every class should have its own unique role. good RPGs understand that they need to be concerned with more than just damage. traps, locks, manual dexterity, stealth, numerous areas of knowledge, buffs, debuffs, CC, even things like just plain conversation ability. every class should have strengths and every class should have weaknesses. good encounters should play into those strengths, while simultaneously exposing the weaknesses. bad systems consist solely of dealing damage, mitigating damage, and healing damage and….. nothing else. that’s a bad FPS trying to wear an RPG mask.
Nerfing Berserker gear isn’t really going to fix dungeons. What they need to do is take their current dungeon design, put them in a cannon, fire the thing, and then redesign the entire GW2 dungeon system from scratch.
Dungeons in MMOs should require teamwork. Dungeons should favor and encourage having different players with various playstyles.
The Tank-DPS-Healer paradigm works well because it achieves both of those goals incredibly well. Usually you get players who are more offense oriented and others who are more defense oriented, and only by playing well together they can win the encounters.
I’m not advocating for an introduction of the tanks/DPS/healers trinity in this game, however the game needs to have a dungeon design that is at least as good as that.
the thing is, though, they have their own version of the trinity. control, damage, and support. the difference is that they’re not bound to any classes, so it’s quite a bit more flexible. however…. then they came out with the defiant buff, which makes the control role entirely useless. add in that the fights, for the most part, are just giant DPS checks, so there’s no major need to even bring a support role along. sure, they can be helpful, but they’re certainly not necessary. all that’s needed for their PvE content is pure damage and the dodge button. in fact, a 5th damage role is actually more efficient than 4 damage and 1 support, so it’s no wonder why everyone wears berserker gear. sure, the fractals were a bit more of a challenge, since there were other mechanics involved in some of the fights beyond just pouring as much damage onto the boss as possible, but the vast majority of the PvE content is just pure DPS checks.
then if you look at the open world boss fights? they’re even worse about it. hell, people don’t even have to have a clue about the mechanics of the fights. take jormag for example. that isn’t a fight, it’s frickin’ charity. half of the people stand off to the side, spamming 1, and not even doing damage to the boss, and i have never once seen that fight fail. with the rez mechanics, there’s not even a need to dodge. if you go down, 50 people will be there to pull you back up. there’s no need to use any skills besides 1, and due to the lag most of the time you’re not even able to if you wanted to. when they redid tequatl, i went and checked it out, and we actually failed, and i was delighted about that. but look at how many people clamored for it nerfed. because they didn’t want a challenge, they wanted a trophy just for showing up.
so that’s how the PvE content is designed. impossible to fail, and you get a trophy just for showing up. the only thing you should wear is pure berserkers, because they’ve made everything else subpar or entirely useless. it’s a hideously bad design, but that’s how people want it to be.
they could address berserker dominance without needing to nerf the gear. it would just be a matter designing the mobs to be able to exploit the minimal armor of glass cannons. not necessarily though one hit kills, because that would screw over everyone, but enough that full berserker would be too fragile to be effective.
that being said, it wouldn’t surprise me in the least if they just nerfed the stats on the gear by 50%, given their past history with balancing. afterall, that’s much faster, easier, and cheaper than coming up with well designed monsters.
Yet they deserve a bunch of lootbags more than any other player on the map.
but they wouldn’t have any to pick up. that’s what this thread is about. someone whining because they lost out on 6 loot bags. which most likely means that they were running with a zerg. they weren’t preventing a cap, they were engaged in combat. if they succeeded, they would still be alive to collect their loot bags. since they couldn’t, they failed.
Dying is not always failure. Did the person that ran in to contest a cap for just long enough for reinforcements to arrive fail by dying? If he hadn’t, that tower/keep would have been lost. Yet this system ensures that even the enemy team, which did fail, gets more of a reward than he does.
if someone’s in to a circle to prevent a cap, they’re not going to have a bunch of lootbags at their feet.
if you’re dead, do you really deserve a reward?
If you earnt a whole bunch of loot bags, do you really deserve to miss out on them just because you died in the split second when they all dropped?
yeah, because you died. if you survived, you’d deserve them. anyone with AoE can “earn” loot bags. it’s not hard at all. you don’t even need to do much damage anymore. you don’t deserve a reward for failure. that’s the self entitled attitude that’s the plague of modern MMOs. all being rewarded for failure does is cheapen the rewards for success. if you succeed, you deserve a reward. if you fail, you should do a better job next time.
if you’re dead, do you really deserve a reward?
Check out the company “Story bricks”. Finally a company that is VASTLY improving the minds of air to be like players and not just attack the first person who comes close to the NPC and have an insanely large amount of health. And who is taking advantage of this new system? Everquest Next
that…… fills me with many happy thoughts. thank you for informing me.
i would love another WvW season…there was actually an exciting competitive environment
it came in after the achievement hunters stopped running pointless farming laps. i’m on TC. the match against JQ and SoR during week 6 was absolutely incredible. the weeks leading up to it as well, because we were able to actually focus on strategy again, and plan and figure out how we wanted to proceed. before that, it was basically just logging in to watch us stomp on two smaller opponents, or receive the occasion, yet welcomed, stomping from a tier 1 opponent. during the seasons, we had to figure out where and when we wanted to push, while making sure we didn’t give up too much in the process. it wasn’t just about the two servers we were facing at the time, but how to best jockey for position within all of them.
then the match against JQ and SoR, we saw a possible opportunity to defy the odds. we had to pull together, and work as one giant team, all on the same page, all focused on the same goals. what was ordinarily chores and work became top priority, and made quite enjoyable. communication and teamwork reached incredible new highs. we focused on accomplishing a goal that many of us had thought to be impossible, and we succeeded. it was absolutely amazing to be a part of, and it’s something that made me extremely proud of my server.
so yeah, i’d welcome that back in a heartbeat.
now, why hasn’t the AI improved in MMOs? a myriad of reasons, however, they pretty much all boil do to most people not wanting it to. sure, they might say that they do, and some do want it to improve. however, when designing a game, and allotting a budget, development companies are forced to focus on aspects the majority of their potential playerbase wants. flashy graphics, phat lewt, lots of buttons to push, convenience simply for the sake of coddling (the quest tracker in neverwinter is a prime example of this one). it all results in the same game getting pushed out year after year by pretty much every single company. sure, the lore and some details may be different, but the core experience is identical. grind to max level, grind to get BIS gear, grind reputation/valor/honor/badges/comms/etc., sit around in town doing nothing while waiting for the next content update to come out to repeat the entire cycle all over again.
it’s a very detrimental process to the industry as a whole, really. because instead of producing quality games, companies are forced to crap out the same recycled garbage over and over again. and even when a game comes out that may break that downward cycle, it gets crushed under the weight of complaints until it’s forced to change its design to be just another sheep in the herd. i can’t tell you how many complaints simply boil down to “this game isn’t like x, make it like x”, even if x was the game they were fleeing from.
this is where PvP has an advantage. there’s no AI that needs to be improved, just player knowledge and skill. every fight is it’s own unique experience. and because of such, PvP tends to have fewer overall requirements than PvE. it just has to be set up right, and people will play it until their eyes bleed. the two most stable groups in MMOs are RPers and PvP players. because they just need to be given the proper tools, and can be left on their own to make their own fun. unfortunately, a lot of games tend to ignore these solid demographics, in favor of trying to convince PvE players to stick around. no development studio can ever hope to keep up with the demand from PvE players, not even gw2 with its living story. however, it’s always assumed that PvE players are where the money is. so that’s who gets the bulk of the attention. however, that’s operating under the false assumption that RPers and PvP players don’t also spend their fair share of money. they do, and they deliver stable income on a regular basis. what happens is that thse two demographics end up feeling neglected, because they usually are, and they make the decision to stop supporting a company that doesn’t support them. it’s entirely justifiable. however, by the time their money stops rolling in, the PvE vein has long since dried up. they’ve moved on to “beat” other games, new players have joined to take their place, and those new players become old players who also move on. the game itself has shifted to try to accommodate this, and in doing so strips itself of everything that once made it worth playing. it turns from a quality game into just another tourist trap. it’s all about trying to lure the constantly rotating playerbase into shelling out as much cash as possible during the short time they’re around.
and that entire cycle itself repeats itself time and again. so challenge, and improvements to shift artificial challenge closer to a real challenge get left by the wayside. PvE, for the most part, is left as “memorize the patterns, move out of the circles”, when it could and should be so much more at this point in time. but quality doesn’t compare to quantity when money is concerned, and that is the SOLE motivation for any company large enough to produce a AAA MMO. get as many people in as possible, get their money, drive them out in order to bring in the next load or wallets. it leaves the entire industry, as a whole, completely devoid of any integrity. it makes an undeniable impression on people, a very negative impression. and i honestly believe that unless that changes, the MMO industry as a whole will implode on itself under the weight of its own ego and greed. the signs are already showing. indie companies are gaining a lot of traction, because they focus on substance over flash. they have to. they can’t afford the flash, so there had better be a lot of substance if they expect anyone to play the games. ironically, this was the same place where most large companies intially began. they grew their name based on the quality of their work, but at some point forgot where they came from and became the monsters they once stood against.
this delves into a few problem areas with MMOs in general. the difference between a real challenge and an artificial challenge. mobs in PvE usually constitute an artificial challenge. that isn’t to say that PvE can’t be difficult, it usually is. however the difficulty is due to this artificial challenge. a real challenge revolves around approximately even terms. basically, both sides working within the same set of rules. before MMOs came out, NPC enemies in RPGs were built exactly the same as the player characters. the same rules and standards, the same abilities and spells. so if you fought a monster that was equal level to you, it would be a very difficult fight that you weren’t assured to win.
with MMOs, and most video games in general, that dynamic got tossed completely out the window. NPC mobs began operating under their own custom ruleset. they were given more HP and better damage. even in games like NWN, where the mobs could be equipped with gear, they were given these advantages and even given access to much much better gear than any of the players would ever see. this became the new definition of a challenge. so when players complain that something isn’t challenging, instead of altering the fight itself to make it a challenge, most developers just boosted the NPCs far beyond what the PCs were capable of, and called it a day.
the reason given for that is that the AI can’t compare with what a human mind can do. the truth is, AI never even bothers to attempt it. it’s been left as dumb as a rock for decades now. the same AI we faced in the original zelda game for the NES is the same AI we’re facing now, just with some more tricks. at the core, though, it’s the same. “move to player, attack attack attack, die, possibly drop loot”
what’s really interesting, is that in single player games, the AI has improved, and has improved a great deal. enemies in games such as metal gear solid are far more intelligent and realistic than anything we’ve ever seen in any MMO. there’s actual intelligence, reasoning, deduction. “there’s a wet footprint on the ground. who left it? where did it come from? they lead this way, i’ll follow it and see what’s there.” as compared to “my jedi mind powers are telling me that there’s someone standing over there…… BERSERKER MODE ACTIVATE”
(continued)
(edited by Phantom.8130)
i would love another WvW season. obviously, some clear adjustments would need to be made to it, but there was actually an exciting competitive environment. while we certainly didn’t win most of our matches, it strengthened our server as a whole. there was a lot of camaraderie, once the achievement hunters stopped running pointless laps ironically achieving nothing. there was a goal again. the thought of a reward based on ranking really drove people to do their best to accomplish that goal. the reward being some RNG based crap loot was a kick in the groin though. transfers were a major problem, but one that can easily solved. simply make it so that there’s anyone that transfers during the season, as well as a few weeks beforehand, get no rewards whatsoever. a few people transferring for legitimate reasons doesn’t outweigh mountains of people transferring for the wrong ones. if they choose to transfer for legitimate reasons, they’ll have to weigh the risk into their option, instead of everyone just getting screwed over as a whole.
i’ve never quite understood the blind reliance on metrics. it’s like a sports fan saying that they don’t need to actually watch the games, they just need to check out the stats. it always has to begin with a wealth of first hand experience, and then numbers can be used to break down and help look further in depth at small portions of whatever is being analyzed. in many cases, simply looking at the numbers gives a false impression of the reality they quantify. there are numerous key factors that they can’t possibly cover. assuming that the numbers mean anything without the first hand experience to go with it, it’s pretty much a guarantee that you’ll misinterpret them. and when operating based off of that misinterpretation, the wrong conclusions will be drawn, and the wrong direction will be traveled. numbers are meant to compliment first hand knowledge, not replace it.
that aside, complaints about map completion in WvW have been around since day 1. the positive of map completion is that it brings players into different portions of the game. many WvW players originally came in solely for map completion and fell in love with something they never would have experienced otherwise. however, it also comes with some drawbacks. there are players who feel coerced into playing something they have no interest, and that results in resentment from those players. resentment does not lead to the supporting a product. then there are also players who come in solely for map completion and have zero concern for anyone else there, or the situation at the time. these are the players that come in during reset night, or any other time when the map is queued, and quite frankly are just dead weight. they’re very very much on par with people who were doing the same things with the jumping puzzles, to get the badges needed for their legendary. it also contributes to the fair weather syndrome, as well as karma training. if a commander is running a karma train, they’re far more likely to have people join who wish to have a much better chance of getting POIs and vistas that they would have a much more difficult time getting otherwise. while a commander who wishes the play the game as intended (as stated many times by Anet employees) find that they quickly lose support and end up with a massive 3 man zerg to try to lock a borderland down with, while getting pounded by 25 man guild groups. which in turn leads to frustration and resentment on that commander’s part, which quickly leads to burn out.
i believer, however, that darkwasp came up with an excellent solution to at least mitigate some of these problems. if the cap points are left out in the open, people can just run up to the places and get them quickly, then decide where to go from there. less pressure for commanders to run karma trains (though it certainly doesn’t relieve the majoity of that pressure). less resentment from the playerbase. less queues being clogged by people who have zero desire to help in their server’s efforts (yet have no problem reaping the benefits of the bonuses provided by WvW). less incentive to not play the game as intended. fewer complain threads on the forums. far fewer people being turned off by the game, and leaving for alternatives. all of which would result in a much more positive and enjoyable experience overall. players would still need to come in, so there would still be people becoming new regulars in WvW, though perhaps not quite as many as before.
you never said it
that’s all that matters. maybe you should start paying more attention to what people actually say, than inventing your own hidden meanings and arguing against your own delusions.
If that’s all that matters, why do people get hung up on things ANet doesn’t say?
Anyway, I’d make more of a point from this about lots of people here arguing about their delusions of what might happen instead of what is happening but, really, where’s the use?
if you need to deflect it off to left field to save your ego on the internet, you go right ahead. we’re done here.
you never said it
that’s all that matters. maybe you should start paying more attention to what people actually say, than inventing your own hidden meanings and arguing against your own delusions.
And, as we have been educated by this person, there are absolutely no other factors which figure into stock value dropping than one subdivision of a company getting a limited form of bad press.
I mean, it’s like how all the overwhelmingly negative press over the last few years forced Electronic Arts to go out of business. Or the ton of reviews saying “these movies are crap” preventing the Transformers movies from making money . . .
the “absolutely no other factors” BS was NEVER said by me. that was someone else’s strawman that got pinned on me. if you don’t believe me, feel free to go back and read everything i said. the actual words, not any injected hidden meanings.
i’ve found that if you stop moving, take another step forward, and then come to a complete stop again, the minimap will work right. if you’re moving, or if you’ve stopped after scrolling the minimap, it’ll just keep zooming back to center.
i’m pretty sure there’s a “center on character” button on the side of the minimap. if so, then there’s no reason for it to return to center on its own. if there isn’t, there was, and it should be put back.
At first I thought you were trolling everyone – now I realize you are serious.
Phantom, please stop. You have no idea what you are talking about. These statements are foolish and utterly preposterous!
You are claiming NCSoft’s stock value is directly tied to ascended gear. That’s completely ludicrous.
i’m saying their stock value is tied to the customer’s opinions. if the customers don’t like what’s going on with the product, the customers won’t pay for it. if the customers aren’t paying, the company loses money. if the company is losing money, so too does the stock. if the stock is losing money, then it’s not wise to hold onto it. if you honestly can’t understand that, get someone else to handle your money.
age: 4297 hours
deaths: 6307
kills: 25,735
achievement points: 6844
world completion: 100%
legendaries: 0
ascended gear: 2 amulets, 2 rings, 2 accessories
crafting: 500 leatherworking, 435 weasopnsmith
gold: just 5
server: TC
PvP is a joke, WvW is still a zergfest, and PvE is for lack of a better word, uniform, despite the “dynamic” events system.
i can’t really offer any advice about sPvP or PvE, but i can help with WvW. while, yeah, there’s usually going to be some level of zergfest going on, there are other very valuable assignments you can take care of while avoiding the zerg entirely. scouting, sentrying (a mobile sentrying system with a few other people with you helps avoid getting bored) and roaming/havoc work. if you can get a full party working with you, you can be extremely effective. maintain control of your camps and the ruins, gank yaks and flip opponent’s camps just before the tick. and ninja attacks if you find a soft target. escorting yaks is great too, if you don’t mind getting no personal rewards for your efforts. as an ele, if you get a thief working with you, you can keep the yak speed buffed and extremely well protected throughout out its journey.
if the small scale stuff doesn’t interest you, you could join a zerg busting guild. you’d be dealing with zergs, but your own numbers would be relatively low (10-20) and highly coordinated.
or you can do what a dude on TC does. buy a golem, build said golem, casually stroll to a keep and work it over while the enemy zerg is tied up elsewhere, then call out when the inner gate is at 50% for people to come join in for the cap. it doesn’t always turn out as planned, but it’s absolutely awesome when it does.
i’d imagine they’ll end up expanding the laurel vendors to include them at some point too. if they’re relatively close in cost to the jewelry, it would still keep them time gated. they could set it up like they did with the recipes. one piece, pick the stats. they might need to increase the cost of two handed weapons though.
Actually you did not throw me a bone or anything else. It is impossible to throw physical objects through written electronic communication. Are there any particular dictionaries you would like me to use to link the definitions of “throw” and “bone” for you?
I just figured since you could not extrapolate from Hjorje’s post when I assumed he used shareholders as a a metaphor for people who take figurative ownership in the game, you did not understand metaphor even though you could search for a definition. Certainly you couldn’t know that he may have just used a wrong word and were crass enough to point it out.
I was just playing by your rules and taking what you “advertised” about throwing bones literally. Because certainly, throwing bones cannot be interpreted in any other way than actually physically throwing a bone. Playing by your logic. Not mine.
Edit: I got ahead of myself and used the wrong term. Changed Shareholder to Stakeholder.
Hjorje made a mistake and used the wrong term. he admitted it and corrected it. it was mature and very respectable, and i applaud him for that.
this has nothing do with a web forum. it was just an immediate source that i could site that everyone is familiar with. the public opinion wasn’t contained in this forum as though it were a vaccuum. public opinion is never a meaningless concept when it deal with a very significant change in direction that would cause a large loss of customers. research involves knowing the public opinions beforehand, to know what the customers want and expect. then if something significant changes, they can act immediately or even beforehand if indication of that change is shown. if the change does happen, anything resembling a public outcry screams “sell”. because that means a loss of customers, which translates to a loss of profits.
This has everything to do with the web forum. The less than 1% of GW2 players who frequent this site are the sole source of the complaints. Any articles that carried those complaints out into the rest of the media used the complaints on this forum as their basis.
No one sold NCsoft stock because of a handful of complainers who believe themselves to be in the majority.
the complaints weren’t limited solely to this forum. there was a large negative buzz created. anyone paying attention to the company would be well aware of it, and would have a pretty good idea on what the impact would be. would it cripple the company? no. would it damage profits, yes. if it there wasn’t negative buzz that would damage their profits, they wouldn’t have scrambled to do damage control. however, they did.
How, exactly, would it damage profits?
This is not a sub-based game. That means that the people who threaten to leave would only be causing a potential loss of profits based on their collective gem-buying likelihood.
It stands to reason that most of the people who would threaten to leave over something as trivial as Ascended gear are not the kinds of people who regularly buy anything from the gem store. Even if they were, the people who are not leaving are more likely to buy more gems now in order to convert to gold to complete their Ascended gear set which means that the complaints would have no negative impact on the profits in either scenario.
Fact is, the world does not revolve around the few people who complained about Ascended gear. While Ascended gear is a HUGE issue to a very small segment of people (making them the loudest on the issue) it is a NON-issue to the majority of players who simply log on and have fun.
Honestly, it is much more likely that what was NOT announced had a greater impact on the stock prices than Ascended gear ever could.
through gem store purchases. fewer overall customers, assuming same percentage of them buy gems both before and afterwards, results in smaller profit.
however, since it isn’t subscription based, those who are shelling out money would actually be more likely to pull out if they didn’t like the direction the product was heading. there’s no reason to pay for something you don’t want, afterall.
the end result would be fewer overall customers, and a smaller percentage of them paying money, resulting in larger losses.
as an aside, and certainly not directed towards you at all, it should be noted that developers really are just second bananas in everything. the parent companies are the ones who decide what does and doesn’t happen. the developers are left with two choices, do what the parent company says, or start looking for a new job. the parent companies don’t really care about the quality of their product, only the bottom line. it’s just dollar signs. how much it costs, and how much they can profit. EA is perfect example of a parent company running roughshod over development teams, pushing out poor products, and letting the developers take the heat while they laugh all the way to the bank. while NCSoft isn’t EA, that pattern of behavior is just par for the course in the industry. indie games avoid this, however are limited by the lack of development funds. programs like kickstarter can help with the funds, but it almost never can generate the same amount of money a large company like EA or NCSoft can invest. if development studios could get suitable funds, and full creative control, i believe the industry as a whole would benefit tremendously. possibly leading to a strange form of video game renaissance.
I agree. Some people have the inherent need to be right whether they are or not and also can’t accept when someone does not bow to things as they see them. No room for disagreement with them in their mindset. In this case, he cannot accept that we see what the devs said as intent and not advertising (by any definition).
I’m done arguing with this guy. He is just devolving into insults and minutia because I won’t accept what he says.
I see that he questioned your use of “shareholders” as well. I understood your meaning because I understand metaphor. I am sure you will be seeing a “shareholder” definition link soon.
this has nothing to do with anyone’s opinion of the game, or the company, at all. it has to do with YOUR understanding of the words you’re using. such as metaphor. (http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/metaphor) it wasn’t a metaphor. if english isn’t your native language, it’s understandable. if it is, however, you really should learn what words mean before using them. if you don’t know the definition, don’t use the words. and certainly don’t base an entire argument around them. there’s no shame in that.
LOL Thank you for confirming what I said to Hjorje.
my pleasure. you confirmed everything i was saying, i figured i’d throw you a bone.
Actually you did not throw me a bone or anything else. It is impossible to throw physical objects through written electronic communication. Are there any particular dictionaries you would like me to use to link the definitions of “throw” and “bone” for you?
this has nothing do with a web forum. it was just an immediate source that i could site that everyone is familiar with. the public opinion wasn’t contained in this forum as though it were a vaccuum. public opinion is never a meaningless concept when it deal with a very significant change in direction that would cause a large loss of customers. research involves knowing the public opinions beforehand, to know what the customers want and expect. then if something significant changes, they can act immediately or even beforehand if indication of that change is shown. if the change does happen, anything resembling a public outcry screams “sell”. because that means a loss of customers, which translates to a loss of profits.
This has everything to do with the web forum. The less than 1% of GW2 players who frequent this site are the sole source of the complaints. Any articles that carried those complaints out into the rest of the media used the complaints on this forum as their basis.
No one sold NCsoft stock because of a handful of complainers who believe themselves to be in the majority.
the complaints weren’t limited solely to this forum. there was a large negative buzz created. anyone paying attention to the company would be well aware of it, and would have a pretty good idea on what the impact would be. would it cripple the company? no. would it damage profits, yes. if it there wasn’t negative buzz that would damage their profits, they wouldn’t have scrambled to do damage control. however, they did.
I agree. Some people have the inherent need to be right whether they are or not and also can’t accept when someone does not bow to things as they see them. No room for disagreement with them in their mindset. In this case, he cannot accept that we see what the devs said as intent and not advertising (by any definition).
I’m done arguing with this guy. He is just devolving into insults and minutia because I won’t accept what he says.
I see that he questioned your use of “shareholders” as well. I understood your meaning because I understand metaphor. I am sure you will be seeing a “shareholder” definition link soon.
this has nothing to do with anyone’s opinion of the game, or the company, at all. it has to do with YOUR understanding of the words you’re using. such as metaphor. (http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/metaphor) it wasn’t a metaphor. if english isn’t your native language, it’s understandable. if it is, however, you really should learn what words mean before using them. if you don’t know the definition, don’t use the words. and certainly don’t base an entire argument around them. there’s no shame in that.
LOL Thank you for confirming what I said to Hjorje.
my pleasure. you confirmed everything i was saying, i figured i’d throw you a bone.
Eh… no. Brokers aren’t trolling the GW2 forums trying to make decisions as to whether or not they should buy or sell NCSoft stock. First of all, Guild Wars 2 is only one piece of the puzzle… there are many games under the NCSoft umbrella. Secondly… what else happened in that time period that may have been significant?
if you don’t think that stockbrokers research the companies they’re going to invest their money in, then you should avoid that career choice like it’s the plague. an intelligent stockbroker, who wishes to remain a stockbroker, learns every detail that may impact their financial investment. if they didn’t, they might as well just go to vegas and put everything on red.
Don’t be ridiculous. Of course they research the companies. They look at numbers, facts and figures. They look at trends. They look at projected growth.
They don’t, however, troll the game forums of a subsidiary company to see if there’s an outcry over a decision the subsidiary company made in the game. (Hell, if they did that then ALL game companies would have stock that’s worthless!) When they’re looking at what ANet brings to the NCSoft fold they’re looking at the big picture, the actual data, facts and figures… not you and I and our differing opinions on something silly.
you don’t think that they’ll research what the public opinion of a product is? that’s what you’re arguing here. that stockbrokers weren’t looking into what the public opinion of the product of the company they had money invested in. the public opinion wasn’t limited to just these forums. it was in every potential source of consumer opinion. they’d have to have their heads buried in the sand not to know what the reaction was, and how prevalent it was. it was massive community outrage. if they weren’t aware of what it was, they were the one losing money. while the ones that actually researched the company and the product, and the public opinions revolving around said product, actually made money on the deal.
Investors do not divest or invest based on complaints on a web forum. They wait to see if the complainers will have a negative impact on the business’ performance before they pull their money out. Public opinion is a completely meaningless concept, until it negatively impacts the bottom line.
this has nothing do with a web forum. it was just an immediate source that i could site that everyone is familiar with. the public opinion wasn’t contained in this forum as though it were a vaccuum. public opinion is never a meaningless concept when it deal with a very significant change in direction that would cause a large loss of customers. research involves knowing the public opinions beforehand, to know what the customers want and expect. then if something significant changes, they can act immediately or even beforehand if indication of that change is shown. if the change does happen, anything resembling a public outcry screams “sell”. because that means a loss of customers, which translates to a loss of profits.
i’m well aware of what happened to CoH, and i never said that it had “nothing to do witht eh stock drop at all” which was why i asked if you had actually read what i wrote. because you invented things that were never said.
Sigh.
" in fact, if you take a look at the NCsoft’s financial report, when they announced ascended gear in november, their stock value plummeted. "
Those are your words.
“given that gw2 was the most publicized project of theirs at the time, and the massive disapproval of the direction it took (as displayed by the sheer amount of public outcry on these very forums), one would have to be blind not to see the relation the two things have with each other. it’s called deductive reasoning.”
Those are also your words. Note how you are “well aware” of what happened to Paragon Studios and their game but fail to mention it as being also subject to public outcry.
“they’re going to become very familiar with the company and the product, so if the company makes a decision that the public dislike, the stockbroker sell or short sell the stocks instead of losing their investment.”
Again, your words. While leaving it open there were other decisions, still focused on how Ascended and its outcry is to blame.
“it’s not presumptive at all. it’s understanding how stock trade works. entire companies have gone bankrupt due to single bad decisions”
Still focusing on a single choice, not any other circumstances.
“Something happened (the company moved their product in a clearly unpopular direction), it was bad (as displayed by the public outcry), and the stock dropped immediately.”
Applies just as much to the end of Paragon Studios and how efforts to try to keep things going failed. But then, this thread of conversation is about Ascended and therefore it must be that as the root cause?
So, really, I did read what you wrote, and all you had to do was admit anywhere the thing with Paragon Studios happened and explain why it wasn’t the case. Instead you ignored all but the most blatant reference to it and then said it didn’t matter and I didn’t understand you.
I understand your point. I just disagree with it owing to one and only one decision when there were other things going on at that time which could have accounted for it. I am not entirely sure, but were there other drops in stocks in other companies at that time? Was there a marketwide downward trend and NCsoft was caught in it? It couldn’t be other related issues to Guild Wars 2 such as the notable and exceedingly visible technical issues going on during Lost Shores ?
No, your insisting Ascended and the reaction to it in November has to be the sole cause.
the entire drop happened in just over a week’s time. the week immediately after ascended gear was announced. there were other drops afterwards, but the timing of this drop directly coincided with the announcement of ascended gear.
I agree. Some people have the inherent need to be right whether they are or not and also can’t accept when someone does not bow to things as they see them. No room for disagreement with them in their mindset. In this case, he cannot accept that we see what the devs said as intent and not advertising (by any definition).
I’m done arguing with this guy. He is just devolving into insults and minutia because I won’t accept what he says.
I see that he questioned your use of “shareholders” as well. I understood your meaning because I understand metaphor. I am sure you will be seeing a “shareholder” definition link soon.
this has nothing to do with anyone’s opinion of the game, or the company, at all. it has to do with YOUR understanding of the words you’re using. such as metaphor. (http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/metaphor) it wasn’t a metaphor. if english isn’t your native language, it’s understandable. if it is, however, you really should learn what words mean before using them. if you don’t know the definition, don’t use the words. and certainly don’t base an entire argument around them. there’s no shame in that.
Eh… no. Brokers aren’t trolling the GW2 forums trying to make decisions as to whether or not they should buy or sell NCSoft stock. First of all, Guild Wars 2 is only one piece of the puzzle… there are many games under the NCSoft umbrella. Secondly… what else happened in that time period that may have been significant?
if you don’t think that stockbrokers research the companies they’re going to invest their money in, then you should avoid that career choice like it’s the plague. an intelligent stockbroker, who wishes to remain a stockbroker, learns every detail that may impact their financial investment. if they didn’t, they might as well just go to vegas and put everything on red.
Don’t be ridiculous. Of course they research the companies. They look at numbers, facts and figures. They look at trends. They look at projected growth.
They don’t, however, troll the game forums of a subsidiary company to see if there’s an outcry over a decision the subsidiary company made in the game. (Hell, if they did that then ALL game companies would have stock that’s worthless!) When they’re looking at what ANet brings to the NCSoft fold they’re looking at the big picture, the actual data, facts and figures… not you and I and our differing opinions on something silly.
you don’t think that they’ll research what the public opinion of a product is? that’s what you’re arguing here. that stockbrokers weren’t looking into what the public opinion of the product of the company they had money invested in. the public opinion wasn’t limited to just these forums. it was in every potential source of consumer opinion. they’d have to have their heads buried in the sand not to know what the reaction was, and how prevalent it was. it was massive community outrage. if they weren’t aware of what it was, they were the one losing money. while the ones that actually researched the company and the product, and the public opinions revolving around said product, actually made money on the deal.
I’m not a fool, but I argue otherwise because it’s pretty presumptive to assume a dip is solely because of one decision, in one game, when NCsoft has other games going on under its name. Not just Guild Wars 2.
There’s a bit of myopia in this whole argument you’re putting forth about how GW2’s woes with the Ascended debacle that November/December is the sole possible cause of the stock for the company falling.
Not the massive technical issues Lost Shores suffered for their first ever attempt at what would become the Living Story.
Not any other decision for any other game which may or may not have started with the word “city” which still outraged a lot of a lot of people. More than Ascended, I would say.
Not financial issues elsewhere.
No, it has to have been Ascended’s announcement in Guild Wars 2.
it’s not presumptive at all. it’s understanding how stock trade works. entire companies have gone bankrupt due to single bad decisions. hence why large companies like to have multiple projects going on at once. if one fails, they’re not crippled by it.
the thing about the stock trade is that it moves extremely fast. you can be rich in the morning and poor by lunch, only to be rich again by closing. it’s not a slow gradual process. when something happens, good or bad, the stock begins moving quickly. which is why the plummet happened. something happened (the company moved their product in a clearly unpopular direction), it was bad (as displayed by the public outcry), and the stock dropped immediately. if there were multiple factors over the course of a couple months, the stock would have gone down gradually. it didn’t. it dropped like a rock when ascended was announced. the entire process took a little over a week.
And it’s entirely due to Ascended’s announcement, which is pretty awesome if you consider it. I mean, NCsoft’s fate is entirely determined by Guild Wars 2 forum readers.
did you read anything i wrote at all, or did you just see “stocks”, “NCSoft”, and “ascended” and just kinda use the force to piece it all together in your head?
Do you read anything I write at all, or do you just decide I don’t know what I’m talking about since I don’t agree with you?
NCsoft still gets flak to this day from about a dozen people I know over CoX. You probably’d don’t know it but . . . it happened to close its doors in November 2012 alongside the whole Ascended debacle. That was the final month of it, and it had been announced in August it was going away. And people tried to save it, but were unable to.
So, an entire game’s worth of jilted players had nothing to do with the stock drop at all?
i’m well aware of what happened to CoH, and i never said that it had “nothing to do witht eh stock drop at all” which was why i asked if you had actually read what i wrote. because you invented things that were never said.
I’m not a fool, but I argue otherwise because it’s pretty presumptive to assume a dip is solely because of one decision, in one game, when NCsoft has other games going on under its name. Not just Guild Wars 2.
There’s a bit of myopia in this whole argument you’re putting forth about how GW2’s woes with the Ascended debacle that November/December is the sole possible cause of the stock for the company falling.
Not the massive technical issues Lost Shores suffered for their first ever attempt at what would become the Living Story.
Not any other decision for any other game which may or may not have started with the word “city” which still outraged a lot of a lot of people. More than Ascended, I would say.
Not financial issues elsewhere.
No, it has to have been Ascended’s announcement in Guild Wars 2.
it’s not presumptive at all. it’s understanding how stock trade works. entire companies have gone bankrupt due to single bad decisions. hence why large companies like to have multiple projects going on at once. if one fails, they’re not crippled by it.
the thing about the stock trade is that it moves extremely fast. you can be rich in the morning and poor by lunch, only to be rich again by closing. it’s not a slow gradual process. when something happens, good or bad, the stock begins moving quickly. which is why the plummet happened. something happened (the company moved their product in a clearly unpopular direction), it was bad (as displayed by the public outcry), and the stock dropped immediately. if there were multiple factors over the course of a couple months, the stock would have gone down gradually. it didn’t. it dropped like a rock when ascended was announced. the entire process took a little over a week.
And it’s entirely due to Ascended’s announcement, which is pretty awesome if you consider it. I mean, NCsoft’s fate is entirely determined by Guild Wars 2 forum readers.
did you read anything i wrote at all, or did you just see “stocks”, “NCSoft”, and “ascended” and just kinda use the force to piece it all together in your head?