Guild Wars 2

jayderyu.3751:

Raf.1078:

Lets not play the blame game by blaming entire servers for the actions of players they have absolutely no control over. Let the kids camp the JP’s and the rest of us will continue to have fun playing honorably.

Speaking of jp and kids. My kids LOVE the EB JP. They are always dissapointed that it’s not a shutout for a safe run. We ran it a few days ago to get dead end by BEAR in the darkroom. So we did some WvW. However, my son keeps going back again and again. He’s a little trooper.

Otherwise it’s been a tough match. The only reason it seems we are winning is due to population spread. I’ve had a lot of fun. keep at it everyone

man, that puzzle is brutal. the first time i ran it, it took me 3 hours to finally get through. and that was with no one trying to stop me. i can get through it in significantly less time, but still, i’m looking for a mesmer to pay for a port to the top. they don’t ask, i tip. it’s really cool of them to stay in there and help people up, they deserve to be rewarded for it. it always seems to catch them off guard when i send them some cash though. i wish more people would throw them a few silver tip regularly. i’d like to start getting people into that habit, but i’m rarely ever in EB enough to do so.

1: siege has no AoE limit
2: one arrow cart is an annoyance. seven arrow carts is a death field.
3: catapults have a knockback.
4: ?
5: profit

transtemporal.2158:

No this isn’t an exploit. This is a different thing called “tactics”.

tactics are OP. nerf tactics!

but seriously, yeah, as long as a place is taking damage, it will be considered contested. but the attack actually has to result in damage numbers. a guy can’t run up and start smacking a wall for it to count. theoretically, if no one bothers to stop him, he’ll eventually get though. it might take 6 hours (or longer, i’ve never really wanted to try), but he is at least a (very) minor threat to actually take the place.

as for trebs hitting the place, yeah, that should definitely make a place count as contested. they’re able to take down the wall fairly quickly if not dealt with. which makes them a pretty immediate threat. as are catapults. ballistas can damage a door, but i’m not sure about walls.

it’s a pretty good idea to use if you’re getting hammered, and they’re just respawning and rushing right back up to the fight. it lets you clear them and catch a breather at the very least.

hellfish.6740:

I didn’t play SWTOR so you might be right about that. WoW on the other hand had at no time anything like that. D&D didn’t have any PvP as far as I remember so not sure what you’re saying here.

when NPC’s in D&D were created properly, there was quite a bit of what would be considered PvP. by properly, i mean, built and designed as any other character would be. so taking out leader of the mage’s guild? PvP. fighting off assassins? PvP.

You make very little sense next. So let me get this straight. When a thief goes burst he’s scissor, but when an elem goes burst he’s paper. Therefor thieves will kill elems. Now elems can go rock (bunker) and stand a chance against scissor thieves. However thieves can ALSO go rock…

both classes have the ability to become paper, scissors or rock. when a thief goes burst, he’s scissors. when a ele goes burst he’s scissors. when they’re attacking. if they go glass cannon, both classes are paper when being attacked. so scissors will still cut through them. now, thieves are set up better to work as scissors, and ele’s are set up better to work as paper(though their build as rocks is truly fearsome). so thieves hold the advantage. now, if the ele goes rock, that advantage shifts to the ele. however, the ele rock build is a bit harder to play, so most tend to avoid that route.

Except in GW2 paper doesn’t beat rock…

it depends on how you define beating. if you define it as shutting them down and completely nullifying them, yes, they can. if you want to kills, play scissors.

So can my elementalist be scissor too? And can you have thieves be downgraded to paper status that can’t beat scissors or rock? If that’s what you’re suggesting I’m in full agreeance with you.

so you’ll agree if thieves are made to be weak against two roles and strong against none? sorry, but that i can’t agree with. every role is strong against one other role, and weak against the other. you can’t ask for one to be weak against two.

a thief can go the paper route,(though it’s more difficult), but then they are weak against scissors and strong against rock. and ele’s can go rock, and are a very very effective rock.

each specific class has their preferred role too. thieves are best at being scissors. much like warriors and guardians are the best at being rocks. that’s not to say that other classes can’t become these other roles, just that some classes are more equipped to take on this role than others.

vutak.3186:

This bit about scouting strikes me as super interesting. Normally I’d say that the side with the better intelligence would win, provided they could get it in time to respond to threats. I feel like normally there should be lots of scouting and counter-scouting, feints and stealth moves, and that that would go a long way to creating initiative for one side over another.

That said, in the current environment and with “perfect” squads, it’s actually very difficult to deny your opponents information. Perma-stealth rogues can’t necessarily get into (all?) the fortresses, but because they only need to be able to see bigger movements (and don’t need to be up-close-and-personal all the time), I find it hard to imagine opposing commanders wouldn’t have all the information they could ever want. Maybe troop movements underwater would become more popular!

it’s definitely pretty easy to relay information in WvW, as long as it’s actually done. it can often go overlooked, or sometimes never even thought of. the scouts mainly need to keep eyes on the enemy zergs, and look at the defenses each of the enemy areas have. an area with few defenders, and even less siege is a much better target to focus on then one that has a fully manned arsenal on the walls. the problem is that often the assignment goes overlooked, or even abandoned in favor of doing something with more action. it can be boring, it can be lonely, and it can be unappreciated, but it’s a crucial part of success.

i don’t need a long warning. the 3 minute warning about new builds is fine with me. the “WvW is shutting down……. NOW boot” leaves people in the lurch. 3 minutes gives them ample time to finish whatever they’re doing, and be ready for it. an identical count down system to the one that’s already in place for new builds would be perfect.

Rieselle.5079:

Nice responses all. I was also thinking about whether it’s worthwhile to have people standing around guarding points that aren’t under attack. are they wasting man power? can they be more effective if you have fewer people on defense, just have a couple of scouts patrolling your points every now and then, and rely on your zerg being able to come back in time to save points under siege?

it depends on the point, really. towers/keeps with siege and upgrades should always have at least a couple people in them to tick siege and be able to give incoming calls. orange swords on the map just means 6 or more. it could be 10, it could be 50. personally, i find 5 to be a good number of defenders at each tower. enough to man some siege and make a call, while slowing the attacking zerg down a bit, or at least softening them up. keeps might want to have a few more defenders, due to them having more places that can be targeted.

i’ve found that camps are just plain easier to retake later. unless you absolutely need yaks getting somewhere, then you’ll have to leave a decent sized group to stop any 3-5 man ninja groups from rolling through.

scouts, however, should be out and about regardless of anything else.

hellfish.6740:

Phantom.8130:

both light armor wearing casters

So? Are you saying light armor classes should be free kills for thieves or what?

if you wish to over simplify things, then yes. scissors are the hard counter to paper, but paper is the hard counter to rock. that’s just how it works.

hellfish.6740:

The only MMO that had r/p/s was DAoC. It was a stupid idea back then and it’s still a stupid idea today. Name one other MMO that had this philosophy?

first off, i said RPG. you said MMO. what you’re dealing with is an MMORPG. so a larger scale RPG.

SWTOR started out with that exact same dynamic, but people whined for nerfs until that was changed. i didn’t get in on the ground floor of WoW, but i’m willing to bet that the same thing holds true there as well. D&D also has the same dynamic. it’s how a balanced party is created. the holy trinity (tank/dps/heal) which has been altered here to “control, damage, support” revolves around that. though, “defense, damage, support” might be a better way of looking at it.

a class can build for damage, they can build for defense, or they can build for support. 3 roles, the paper, scissors, rock motif still applies. burst damage thieves just have a different way of doing their damage. they’re still “scissors” they still are the hard counter to “paper”, and are still countered by “rock”. if you’re paper, and tired of being killed by scissors, play rock. you don’t even need to make a seperate character to do so. you can alter your traits and gear on the same character, and will find a whole new perspective on the situation. if you’re paper, and wish to remain paper, then expect to be killed by scissors more often than not. if you’re paper, and wish to remain paper, but wish to beat scissors more often than not, you have unrealistic expectations. especially considering you are already the hard counter to rock. you now wish to be one role’s weakness, and on even ground with the other two. that would give you an unfair advantage.

i’m guessing it will be minor changes. a small decrease to the overall damage to the CnD, mug, backstab combo, most likely revolving around the CnD and mug parts, and some minor increases to other weapons’ abilities. possibly further range on the shortbow, or faster flight time for the cluster bomb. longer range on pistols, or a faster firing rate.

people will still complain, people will still quietly counter thieves. life will go on.

Distaste.4801:

And? The thief isn’t supposed to kill cloth classes in 2-3 seconds. The entire idea that the stealth classes are supposed to instant kill casters/clothies is dumb. The point of the stealth class going after those classes is because they can stealth and get back to them where non-stealth classes are killed before they can reach them. If we are going to use the same rules from other games that features the above then thieves shouldn’t be able to scratch a heavy armored class and ranged should completely destroy the heavy armored.

and, if you notice people who spec and build their gear for defense have no problems beating a thief. the ones who say they do either A: suck, or B: are lying. they’re either not built for defense, they’re using incorrect numbers, they’re low level and undergeared, or are just making the entire situation up entirely. because, yes, people DO lie on the internet.

None of that applies in GW2 though because those roles/rules were tossed out the window. We have cloth class builds that are melee based and heavy armor class builds that are ranged based. ArenaNet caved the pressure to put in a stealth assassin and surprise! It failed horribly. There is no place in this game for it. There are no stealth counters, damage doesn’t bring them out of stealth, and heavy armor classes don’t eat them for breakfast.

perhaps this is the source of the problem. Anet’s choice of wording for their roles. (no, they didn’t get rid of the roles entirely.) Anet worded it as “control, damage, support” whereas “defense, damage, support” probably would have worked better. sure, a warrior can become a glass cannon, but then they’re moved into the damage role. they’re no longer defense. a bunker build is defense, which tends to be pretty easy to deal with if you’re support. notice the key wording there as well. “deal with”. that doesn’t necessarily mean that the support character will be standing over the body of their foe. it means they can completely shut them now, nullify them, and weaken them for others to kill them.

The sooner we move away from people trying to use rules/roles from other MMO’s, the sooner we can get a balanced class that actually takes some skill to play.

and the sooner we can get away from people trying to be solo players in MULTIPLAYER games, and start understanding how the core of it all works, the sooner the forums can be used for actual discussion instead of endless bitter whining.

CharliePrince.2071:

it’s obvious you have no idea what you’re talking about to suggest nobody was aoeing or trying to bring the thief out of stealth

and it’s obvious you’re just looking for an argument. i asked someone else entirely what class they play, and you chimed in with a tidal wave of hostility. social skills, give ’em a try.

Bottom Line: WAAAHHHH!!!

yeah, pretty much…..

CharliePrince.2071:

it doesn’t matter whatsoever

yes, actually, it does.

when 1 thief can stop 50+ people from capping an objective for 10minutes+

50+ people, and not one thought to use AoE, or lay down a bunch of traps? because, yes, that does stop the technique used to prevent caps.

Arlandino.7513:

Any word on when Thieves will be brought into line with the other classes people play in this game for WVW?

Just curious how long the rediculous imbalance is going to be allowed to persist

out of curiosity, what class do you play?

hellfish.6740:

If my elem…

quercus.9261:

I only play WvW on my mesmer.

both light armor wearing casters

Phantom.8130:

people also tend to be ignorant of how class dynamics work as well. they tend to think that every class should have an equal chance of beating every class, like in a FPS. however, in all RPG’s, it works like paper/scissors/rock. only, it’s light armor/medium armor/heavy armor, or in some instances casters/physical damage/defense. 1 is designed to beat 3, 2 is designed to beat 1, 3 is designed to beat 2. people don’t understand this and think that 1, 2, and 3 should be designed to beat everyone. they don’t understand that while classes have strengths, they also have weaknesses, and that other classes are meant to expose those weaknesses.

Mouse.4782:

Shinigami.5932:

You should read Ender’s Game.

This. Or, learn how to play chess. Whatever works.

well….. yes and no. you should definitely plan a few moves ahead at all times, but there’s no king to capture to end the game. there are only territories to occupy. which is actually the model used in this game: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Go_%28game%29

as for a set “ultimate strategy”, there really isn’t one nor can there be. you have to adapt to the situation as it continually changes. every strategy can be countered, if given enough time to figure that counter out. so sticking to one strategy will inevitably lead to a counter being created. there are strategies that can dominate for the short term, but will eventually be made obsolete as things evolve.

so really, the ultimate strategy is to adapt.

people also tend to be ignorant of how class dynamics work as well. they tend to think that every class should have an equal chance of beating every class, like in a FPS. however, in all RPG’s, it works like paper/scissors/rock. only, it’s light armor/medium armor/heavy armor, or in some instances casters/physical damage/defense. 1 is designed to beat 3, 2 is designed to beat 1, 3 is designed to beat 2. people don’t understand this and think that 1, 2, and 3 should be designed to beat everyone. they don’t understand that while classes have strengths, they also have weaknesses, and that other classes are meant to expose those weaknesses.

so when paper gets beaten by scissors, they cry for a nerf, ignoring that they beat rock. then scissors gets beaten by rock, and cries for a nerf, and have now lost their advantage over paper. then rock gets beaten by paper, and cries for a nerf, and have lost their advantage over scissors. at that point, everything has come full circle, and really the only thing that’s happened is that everyone’s lost a little bit. and then the cycle begins again and again and again, until we end up only able to throw grapes at each other, hit each other with cardboard swords, while wearing styrofoam armor.

and even then, the cries for nerfs don’t stop. as long as they’re catered to, they’ll continue. the precedent has already been established. “live in ignorance and whine to win.” if a company were to come out and say “this is the game we made. we’ve done extensive testing. this is how it is intended to work. suck it up and deal with it princess” they may not have a large boom in sales at first, but the quality of their product will supersede anything that’s on the market, and will have people returning to it over and over for many years to come.

but people can always complain. they can always lie. they can always force ignorance onto others and foster the mob mentality. so the long term good is sacrificed in favor of short term gratification.

and once this cycle has reached a certain point, games have to draw on imbecilic gimmicks to try to keep people interested. such as kung fu pandas, and imitation pokemon. but…. behind the gimmicks, the substance has been lost. once the novelty fades, it’s all seen for what it really is, and people begin to look elsewhere for the quality that is no longer present in the game they’re playing. the ignorant mob will follow, and the whole long “cycle of suck” begins anew.

the sad part is, i don’t see these things ever changing. at least not any time soon. developers are forced to push their products out before having ample time to test them so that deadlines can be met. they’re forced to fix bugs after the game has been released. people act like “my character got killed” is a bug. the companies don’t want to lose their playerbase, so are left with little choice by to cater to these people.

i’d honestly love to sit them all down in front of an NES, pop in double dragon (after blowing in the cartridge, wiggling it around for 15 minutes, and other various tricks we used to use to get the game to work), and see how they react when confronted with a challenge they can’t change. how many would rise to the occasion, and how many would quit after their first game over screen? if nothing else, it would certainly be an interesting experiment.

a few of us have done some testing a week or two ago, but i’m not convinced about the results. we built an arrow cart, and watched it for 30 minutes. with no one touching it, it did indeed disappear. however, it was never once fired, which might factor in. the location might also have something to do with it, as we had various pieces of siege set up in a tower, had to go defend another location for a while, and when i went back to the tower, only the trebs were gone. in another instance, someone built an arrow cart, a catapult and a treb off to the side in one of the camps, and went to bed. when they woke up, all three were still there. while it’s possible someone make have come in and ticked them regularly, they were in a very difficult area to even notice. we’ve also had the same pieces of siege sitting in a tower for 3 days, and every time i would go in there to tick them, there was no one around to keep them ticked. and i was only popping every hour or so. then i spent a half hour reading the forums, went back, and only 1 catapult was still left in there.

the lighting does indeed damage siege in the keeps (as well as cannons, as i was walking past one when it got zapped, ultimately destroying the cannon).

an official post on the subject would be fantastic to clear all of this up, because it seems that the experiments are yielding mixed results.

hopefully, if there would be people doing these quests, there would be people reporting any bots that would be there too.

in regards to the actual idea itself, i think it’s pretty good. though, there would need to similar quests for each of the towers and keeps as well. otherwise, people would come in, farm the camp quests, and ignore everything else. it would leave the areas undefended, and half of the people on the map would be losing their minds because there were 40 people in a camp while a keep was taken by 4 guys.

however, it’s definitely a good starting point for a system like this. i’ve done a lot of defending at towers, and it’s rough sitting there for hours to keep the siege ticked while trying not to lapse into a boredom coma. after 20 minutes, most of the other people who were supposed to be defending have all gone AWOL, having quietly slipped out the back. having some quests there to keep them occupied would work wonders to keep people around the vital areas.

also, you could try including "OP!, NERF! or “WAAAAHHH!” in your thread title. those seem to be what gets the most attention, while good ideas are drowned out and pushed off the page.

i’d love to see each server have their own specific map as their borderlands. it would give more of home town feel to the place. the only drawback is then people would say “their map has (insert random area). it gives them an advantage. it’s unfair! WAAAAHHH!!!!” while completely disregarding any advantages their own maps would have. but since it’s been proven that if people can complain, they will, about anything, i don’t really see what difference a new topic to complain about would make, while also adding some fun and positive contributions.

Ahorisu.2703:

so i log on today for my daily dose of WVW and an hour into it… i took a look at the map

http://i.imgur.com/hM6y6.jpg

ok fine.. it must just had been a coincidence.
i mean how high are the chances that both YB & TC BL does not have either party presence except CD?

3 hours later..

http://i.imgur.com/2mOef.jpg

and that was basically the situation during the duration when i was in wvw.
seems like that long wot of TC approaching YB for an alliance hold waters since this didn’t happened at all over the weekend.

I will just leave these screens up instead of typing out a long wot.

cheers!

ok, let’s analyze these screenshots, shall we? as you can see in the first one, TC has areas in the TC borderland, the CD borderland, and in EB. and they still do in the second one. YB has areas on the YB borderlands, CD borderlands and EB, and only YB and EB in the second one. isn’t it likely that these servers don’t have enough people to maintain a presence on all 4 maps, and went to where help was needed the most? obviously, with no areas in the TC borderlands, YB had nowhere that needed defending there, so they didn’t have to focus on it. the same holds true with TC on the YB borderland.

so instead, they focused on where they did have areas. the CD borderland. it’s obvious they had to defend, because they both have fewer areas in the second screenshot than they do in the first. both YB and TC maintained several areas in EB throughout the duration, with CD beginning to expand in all of these areas.

the bottom line is that you spread your forces too thin, and were hard pressed on your own borderland, while TC and YB prioritized which maps to send the bulk of their forces, with any left over to defend their home one. and here’s the kicker, when you start making too much progress on either of TC or YB’s borderlands, i’m certain reinforcements were called in from where the bulk of both teams forces were. a little from here, a little from there, and suddenly they seem to have adequate presences on 3 maps. yet, they ignore the 4th. why? is it because there’s some shady back room deal going on? no. it’s because they know they don’t have enough people to handle a 4th map. so instead they make the most out of what they have to work with.

but, if you’re sticking to the conspiracy that TC and YB are in cahoots, then YB owes us a hell of a lot of siege blueprints for all the stuff they busted up at our NE tower on the TC borderlands with their trebs. those things aren’t cheap.

Edelweiss.9815:

You’re getting nerfed. Learn how to get over it.

and when the whining nerf train starts pointing in your direction, remember these words. because it has very little to do with balance. it has to do with pride. person A loses to person B, so person A assumes that person B is OP(or in some instances, assumes they’re cheating). so person A begins a campaign against whatever person B used to kill them, because person A believes that the only way they could ever lose is if the other person has an advantage over them. a few people with person A’s mindset joins into the fray, and then mob mentality kicks in. facts and logic get tossed out the window at that point, replaced by “rabble rabble rabble”.

when one MMO caters to these whiners, it sets the expectation that every MMO must follow suit.

and, here’s an interesting question i’d like to pose. if thieves are so OP and require absolutely no skill to play, why aren’t the multitude of bots using them?

Stiv.1820:

It’s the side effect of playing the stealth class. It doesn’t matter where they reside in the power curve or what game it is, they will be incessantly QQ’d about by the masses.

exactly. it’s been this way on every game i’ve every played. stealth classes could have absolutely nothing to offer besides stealth, and would still take the brunt of the complaints. simply because stealth classes don’t march up to someone and announce “I’MO FIGHT YOU NOW. READY, SET, GO!”. and really, i understand why. people fear what they can’t see, and fear leads to panic, and panic to frustration. they figure that since they’re flawless in their approach, at least in their own minds, that something must be wrong about the other guy. the combination of the two results in them believing that anyone who can kill them can only do so due because something about them is overpowered. so they start a complaint thread on the forums. then others begin adding in their own anecdotal evidence, and things snowball from there. more threads are created, more whining spews forth, and then the insults begin. they claim that the people playing the stealth class have absolutely no skill worth mentioning and are using their overpowered abilities as a crutch. which leads to further snowballing.

others, on the other hands, adapt their tactics. not necessarily their build or their gear, but their tactics, and end up able to handle the stealth class with little or no problems. they, however, don’t join into the whining threads, because it just plain doesn’t concern them. so the only ones left in there are the people familiar with the issue at hand to defend it, and all of the people who have picked up their torches and pitchforks to join the angry mob attacking it.

simply because they need an excuse.

BabelFish.7234:

Actually I tend to make most thieves run or use Shadow Refuge. If they sue SR I get a free kill because I pop haste and PW x3, instagibbed thief. There are occasions where I get owned by BS thieves but that’s mostly because they’re a better thief then I am..

i think this part is very telling. as you said, there are occasions where you get owed by BS thieves, but that’s mostly because they’re a better thief than you…….yet you make a thread stating that BS is OP. you’re flat out admitting that you’re getting killed because of a gap in skill level. so logic would denote that if you improve your skill level, you won’t have a problem. in fact, you even go as far as to state that if they use SR, they’re a “free kill”. how is someone that’s a “free kill” in any way, shape or form even remotely overpowered? it’s sounding like you want them to run up to you and just kill themselves, so you don’t even have to press any buttons.

you win some, you lose some. that’s how it works. saying that the ones you lost were due to an OP ability, while ignoring that the ones you won still had this same exact ability is laughable at best.

what you have a problem with is losing to someone with a higher skill level. so you want them to play with a handicap to come down to your level. well, what about those who have a lower skill level than you? should you have to play with a handicap to come down to their level?

Mauvelence.6870:

Oh so that is it, you guys are really all sore about CD camping the jumping puzzles? Well maybe that is all we have left, we have to use what we can I guess. I dont know how you guys come to say I am being a sore loser, I am not, I dont respect the double teaming, it is a cheap tactic on a weaker server to try to get ahead but whatever, I am only dishing out advice to both servers as you guys are the ones working so hard for tier 2 which we have been in long ago so we know the score. We have also been up against SOS and SOR at once with our poor numbers. I am thinking you are the ones that are being sore. I am just stating what I see and you are getting mad cause you cant handle the truth. I cant help you there. I am fine where CD is. We could really care less about advancing to tier 2, we are loving the short que times and have a much better chance of small man fights in lower tiers. You guys are the ones with the mass numbers, just go in the jumping puzzles with your 50 man zergs and overwhelm CD if you want it that bad, shouldnt be that hard should it?

it’s all a matter of perception. on your home borderland, both teams will appear to be double teaming you. on the TC borderland, it appears that YB and CD are double teaming us. the key word, however, is appear. the way the borderlands are set up, the two “away” teams filter up the side closest to their spawn area, and end up at the garrison. so the “home” team has to deal with both threats at once. most likely, the “attacking” teams will leave each other alone to focus on pushing northward. that’s just how the game works. is the “home” team being double teamed? yes. are the two “attacking” teams working together? not even remotely. you can tell because it happens the same way on all the borderlands, regardless of who the “home” and “attacking” teams actually are. the “home” team will always have to deal with attacks from two other teams. if you want to counter it, create some bait for both attacking teams in between them. draw their forces there, and more often than not they’ll start attacking each other.

Deathdom.8250:

Does anyone know how was it possible for them to be up there? We took back the garrison almost 2 hours ago.

yeah. you go to the southwest garrison gate. instead of going to the gate, you run around to the left of it. make a jump over the gap, then fall down to that area.

nci.1928:

Hi guys.

I don’t have Thief character. I play as a Mesmer or a Guardian and I play a lot of WvW. I have a fair chance of defeating most professions in a 1v1 situation (obviously depending on the opponent players skill), but when I encounter a Thief I am dead within 5 seconds, without even being able to react.
Now you may think that I am just a noob who can’t play the game, but I really do alright against the other professions. My conclusion is that I just don’t know how to counter a Thief, so I decided to find some tips and strategies. And there is no better place for that than the Thief section of the forum.
Do you have any tips for me? Have you maybe encountered a Thief yourselves? What would your ideal build be (for any profession) if had to duel a Thief?

I am looking forward to your contribution

i can simplify it into one word: retaliation.

i recognize the name, but have only ever seen him once in a blue moon. i wasn’t even aware he was in EP. personally, i’m glad his efforts failed. this match has been absolutely amazing so far. i’ve never seen a match be this close, and would love to see several rematches once this one finishes. win or lose, this is definitely one to remember.

bjchase.3074:

The little I played thus far it’s been a blast. Great battles. I would play more but in large groups my sound goes wonky and than the game crashes. cry cry

actually, i stumbled across a fix for that. the same thing happened to me all the time, usually followed by the game freezing up completely. if you turn your sound quality down (i put mine at 50%) it seems to fix it. i haven’t had it happen once since then. i honestly haven’t noticed and real difference in the actual sound quality either. except, now it always works.

testpig.5018:

-Stealth should not allow you to cap or delay an objective.

agreed. it doesn’t let you cap or delay in sPvP. not really sure why it lets us in WvW, especially when some of the circles are much much larger.

-Backstab should cost points to use

i could live with that. anything between 1-3 initiative would be ok by me

-When damaged in stealth, you should become slightly visible(as if you are still 90% in stealth, with no name appear)

i could understand damage numbers appearing due to DoT’s, but partially visible is still visible. in fact, i think that damage originally may have made thieves partially visible, but it made stealth pretty much worthless. that’s just based on my memories of the first time i tried WvW around the time of the launch, so i might be wrong about that.

-when you use any of your weapon abilities while in stealth, stealth should break, even if your attack is missed, or blocked, or evaded.

miss, no. block definitely. after all, it hit something, it just got blocked. evade….. i’m not sure about, but i’d learn toward ok on it. since i’m figuring someone getting hit with CnD, then dodging immediately. realistically, the air movements and sound would expose the attackers position, since it’s really close quarters.

That will then justify the raw damage this class can easily perform.

/discuss

as has been stated, though, WvW is a bad place to pull numerical reference from. people can get in there at level 2, with starting gear, and no talent or skill points. in that situation, they could end up getting absolutely annihilated by a lone yak. everyone will be putting up huge numbers against them.

Fritz.5026:

you can say that, but any person can go to the various forums on this site, and this is the only class section that is covered in complaint threads.

at the moment, this is true. but, when thief gets nerfed, then it will be another class’s turn, and that fill up with complain threads just the same. complaints to get classes/skills/monsters/anything nerfed always tend to follow the same predictable pattern

you can pretend its some imaginary issue and that everyone else is just bad, and you are the sole unique person who is not bad in the world, but in the long run its not going to matter. people will see the complaints, they will assume the class is overpowered and they will make that class so they can have easy wins.

the thing is, the first half isn’t really the case. many people playing many classes have little trouble beating a glass cannon thief. the thing is, the bulk of them are actually doing it, and not discussing it on the forums. a few have spoken up, but are drowned out by the majority of the posters* who are just complaining.

the second part, however is true. people see all the complaints and make an assumption. but you know what they say about assumptions.

(*posters on the forums, a far lesser number than players in the game. and considering that the bulk of every MMO forum is filled with complaints about, well…… everything, it’s not hard to do the math here.)

i can go to most of the other class forums and find jokes about “to fix your class, just make a thief and spam #2” with a bunch of people laughing about how true it is.

…but whatever, believe whatever you want. if you cant look around and see it, you never will.

actually, a thief just spamming heartseeker is tell that they obviously don’t know what they’re doing, so they are actually pretty easy to kill. if you have retaliation, pop it and laugh as they spam themselves to death. a shield works well enough too, by making them waste all their initiative. if neither of those are possible, you can just go on the immediate offensive. they’ll probably be too incompetent to have any clue what to do at that point and panic. just as long as you don’t try to create a gap they’re not that hard to beat.

TC: 25,481
YB: 24, 278
CD: 24,186

I haven’t yet any s/tPvP footage of any profession except thieves dealing 18k+ damage in that time without using bugs.

and since they changed how assassin’s signet works, no thief is backstabbing for 18k+ damage now. yet you continue your crusade against them, using imaginary statistics.

Tell me any high damage burst skill/combo which isn’t easy to counter in Guild Wars 2, just one.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Zealot%27s_Embrace
weapon switch
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Whirling_Wrath

total cast time: 1 3/4 second. i’ll even be generous and add in the extra quarter second for the weapon switch.

i know, the target just has to pop a CC breaker and they can avoid the second half. the fact is, that’s the SAME thing that applies to the thief combo. but that tends to get overlooked, because thieves are icky.

Your argument is just stupid.

going to call me a poopy head next?

If I was struggling for easy mode, I would have better rerolled thief and not complaining at all. I’d rather defend thieves from nerfs like many people are doing in order to keep safe their opness and keep abusing of it.

or, you’d be on the forums crying for a nerf. which is what MMO forums are usually filled with. and, coincidentally, exactly what you’re doing. obviously you wouldn’t bother to actually to learn about what you fear, because then you might realize that it’s not the game that’s the problem. as opposed to actually trying it, seeing what all is required to make it work, and realizing it’s not as easy as it is to cry nerf on the forums. so the path of least resistance is taken.

coincidentally, unless you agreed with the points of the first half of my previous reply, you never bothered to respond to any of them. so either you agreed, or went all easy mode and just decided to argue against one section and ignore the rest.

1 3/4 seconds cast time differs from 1/4 second from 2 seconds casting time. So much difference, don’t you say?

using a skill that requires at least 15 seconds (way more in reality) to be built up and has 2 seconds casting time

once again, your own words work against you.

So what? If you have tried kill shot you will realize that against full geared with base toughness character it won’t never hit above 10-13k damage. Never.
Your Cluster Bomb (3 initiative and 1200 range) would have hit for about 10k AoE damage against player geared like those shown in the video, plus bleeding. Thank me later when you feel like a AoE sniper when playing thief.

1. if you had any idea how backstab works since the change to assassin’s signet, you will realize that the same damage numbers apply in both cases. but one is done by a thief, and apparently, they’re icky.
2. your damage numbers on cluster bomb are nowhere even close to reality. show me even a SINGLE screenshot where it hits anyone for 10k. it just plain doesn’t. on top of that, it’s extremely slow and easy to dodge except at point blank range, and that throws that 1200 right out the window.

But that WvWvW footage is a valid sample, right?
At least in those video you know that people have at least full exotic armor and you don’t have any buff from Orbs/Consumables/Fort bonuses.

#1. no, it wasn’t a valid sample. but if people are going to post cherry picked highlight clips and cropped screenshots to prove a point, they should expect the same crap thrown right back at them. that’s the precedent that’s been set.

1. orbs have been removed from WvW, so the highly significant bonuses they provided are no longer there. coincidentally, the matches and battles are the closest they ever have been.

Building adrenaline, maybe? Warriors have to use 10 attacks to build up full adrenaline in order to use killshot.

so if a warrior is in combat(which he should already be), he shouldn’t have much trouble being able to use his burst damage. the fact is, the thief’s damage is front loaded, the warrior’s damage is back loaded. they’re going to have different playstyles. get over it, because over an extended period of time, the numbers won’t be that far apart.

Seriously? Once Steal is on cooldown you can still use CnD+Backstab each 3 seconds and deal 10k+ damage. Where is the tradeoff, so?

for 6 initiative. add in the 6 he’s already used, and that taps out his 12 initiative. completely. add in the fact that if you actually move (not dodge, just move) he’s highly likely to miss his CnD, rendering no damage, no stealth, no combo, and completely defenseless.

So? Every high damage skill/combo in this game have huge visibility, thieves don’t. So the damage should be adjusted according to low visibility. Stealth is intended as a defensive mechanic, not offensive. That’s why Shadow Arts give toughness and most stealth skills heal you.

stealth is intended..? what? that’s just plain presumptuous to claim to know how Anet intended anything. you weren’t in the room when they came up with the mechanic. you simply don’t have any basis to back any of that up. especially considering that CnD is an OFFENSIVE ability, and backstab is an OFFENSIVE ability. and once again, your clear bias against stealth shows. you want an ambush class to have to take a long time to perform an ambush and be in plain sight while doing so. i.e. easy mode.

(continued)

]
You are joking right?
You have taken a video of a guy hitting for high numbers in WvWvW against upleveled people using a skill that requires at least 15 seconds (way more in reality) to be built up and has 2 seconds casting time in which you are clearly visibile to prove thieves bursts are fine?

numbers have never been your strong suit, as you’ve been completely wrong every time you’ve attempted to use them. http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Kill_Shot

1 3/4 second cast time. 10 second cooldown. and, unless you just saw that it was WvW and ignored everything else beyond that, you would have noticed HOW the guy was playing. he wasn’t rushing up into melee. he was playing like a sniper. hanging back at his extended range, waiting for his opportunity and then using his deadly ability. he was playing smart. if what you’re looking for is for everyone to just clump up in a giant ball and mash buttons until only one person is left standing, you’re always going to be disappointed when people actually put some thought into their actions.

Have you at least any idea on how much does backstab combo hits in sPvP/tPvP, not that WvWvW with 10+ buffs in the same moment?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=plkM40HP54U
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=El8VchCccDs

You can see here many 13k+ bursts, just to say. And this is sPvP.

you do realize that those videos were nothing more than cherry picked highlight clips, right? zero relevant data was included. nothing about the defenders gear or build was even hinted at. nor was anything regarding their skill level. so, for all we know, those were people who just bought the game the day before who didn’t put any thought toward defense whatsoever, and got smashed like they should be. it’s not a valid sample to base anything on.

So, at the end, thieves have, compared to warrior:

ok, let’s do that.

- Less skill preparation: once you entered a fight you are able to use your combo

as opposed to warriors who enter a fight and have to spend 10 minutes picking daisies?

- Less casting time

yes, but much longer cooldown times. that’s the tradeoff for lower casting times.

- Less visibility

thieves are a stealth based class. they’d be absolutely useless if they were visible while in stealth. then it wouldn’t even be stealth. it would be “shiny happy kill me time”. your clear bias against stealth itself is showing.

- Higher damage

i think that it’s been proven time and again that a glass cannon thief’s damage is actually on par with the damage any other glass cannon class can put out, and currently even less than what some others are capable of, including warriors.

- Less ease to counter

once again, another push for easy mode. so once again, WoW has pandas. they’re soft and cuddly, just like how you want thieves in GW2 to be.

So if I have to struggle for balance sake, I’m going to fight my war here.

no, if you have to wage a personal war for easy mode, that’s what you’re going to do. and that’s what you are doing, and have been doing.

sorrow.2364:

Nope, my initial point was that the combo/sequence depends on situations, not the case of thieves though. CnD+Backstab is always the combo. You won’t have the problem to daze someone who is rezzing, stripping stability to a guardian, immobilize a thief, fear someone who is bursting you down, pump the damage with Life Blast and so on. CnD+Backstab is more, more than enough to burst down anyone if coupled with Heartseeker.

sorrow.2364:

1. It is way harder to use because you have to use all your skill in a specific sequence depending on situations

trying to change your argument after the fact only weakens your overall stance. and, once again, you’re comparing thieves to necromancers. a class that’s considered to be underpowered.

Seriously? No profession can kill someone in 3 seconds unless when using some burst combo which usually are on long cooldown. But it doesn’t matter, since as far I know, thieves have dodge too.
If you couple this with the rendering issues going around, then you see the full picture

what you’re refusing to acknowledge is that the thief has a 45 second cooldown for steal and basilisk’s venom, as well as devourer venom.

the rendering issue is a bug that most thieves agree should be fixed, and Anet has stated they have fixed it in the patch that will be coming in on the 15th. if you want a class balanced around a bug, then what do you think is going to happen when the bug is fixed?

As I stated before, I can also survive to bad backstab thieves.
But it doesn’t mean that bad backstab thieves aren’t harder to counter compared to bad necromancer, bad elementalist or bad engineer and that bad thieves are way more effective as they should compared to bad x profession.

Balancing isn’t about counterability.
Overpowered doesn’t mean unbeatable.
Get this straight before arguing.

bad backstab thieves are indeed easy to counter if you actually have a clue what you’re doing. if you want to just be able to headbutt your keyboard a few times and win, i hear WoW has pandas now, you might want to check that out.

3 seconds is low also if you have an HP pool of 5k. A dodge is more than enough to mitigate the damage and survive for 3 seconds.

so… thieves are able to dodge, but no one else has that ability? or are they just expected to not have to use it because that’s how skilled players roll?

If you are healing, you aren’t dodging HS.
So, what is best, dodge spamming and getting killed anyway by some lucky HS or being killed because you tried to heal? Anyway you can’t dodge while under immobilization, so…

The player is still under immobilization.
Devourer Venom immobilizes for 2 seconds for 2 hits. Since Immobilization stacks in duration, there is a total of 4 seconds immobiliziation.
Does the time between Steal and HS spamming more than 4 seconds? I think no.
Also if Immobilization was bugged, 2 seconds are more than enough to get at least 1 hs landed.
You should stop lying.

once again, you’re moving the goalposts and adding another thief ability into the fray. so at this point, a thief who’s burnt up basilisk venom, steal, assasin’t signet, devourer’s venom, and ALL of their initiative shouldn’t be able to kill you? sounds as though your pushing for easy mode here, so again i’ll point out that WoW has pandas now.

Have you actually played tPvP where thieves are roamers? They enter already engaged fights with full initiative and clean out for sure one of the pretenders of a node.
Considering also that thief profession encourage hit-n-run gameplay, there are so few the situation you are starting a combo with less than maximum initiative.

so… they wait for the ideal opportunity to attack and then proceed to do so instead of just wandering up and mashing a bunch of buttons and expecting to win. and then have to stay out of the fight for the next 45 seconds while everything they just burned up is on cooldown. you’re pushing for easy mode. it’s not even remotely hidden at this point.

(continued)

it’s been pretty intense so far. we screwed up on the TC borderlands and defended the bay instead of our extremely well prepared northern tower, and ended up losing them both and got stuck in a several hour long garrison defense against both teams. we finally managed to get that tower back and all the holes in the garrison patched up though. and all this is before CD’s vampires come out to swarm. currently, the score is the closest i’ve ever seen one be. this should be a very very interesting match.

sorrow.2364:

You don’t get the point.
As a Backstab thief, the combo is always that. You can vary it using CnD->Backstab when other skills are on cooldown, but there isn’t so much variation about that.
I hope that before you came here to say that my point is invalid you have at least tried the build in question. Using skills in the same exact sequence in every situations make the build uneffective. This is not the case of Backstab.

your initial point, was that it took all of their skills, in a specific sequence, and depended on the situation. i countered your point with the truth that the same conditions apply to the thief, and now you’re moving the goalposts to complain about something else entirely.

So, 3 seconds of revealed means that Thieves can’t rely on Stealth at all? They can easily leave the fight if the burst doesn’t kill the target by using just one skill, which is kinda OP when used on an instant-kill build.
Necros haven’t that option, once they engaged a fight, they have no way to leave it.

3 seconds is all you need to kill a glass cannon thief. they have no defense and the lowest HP possible. just use your auto-attack and you’ll get them down to near death.

See above.
You won’t see a thief getting behind you. The time which passes between Steal and CnD is almost non-existent. Then you’re immobilized and you have no way to avoid the backstab.
You haven’t neither the time to figure out the weapon set of the thief that you are dead or with less than 30% hp.

If you failed the burst, anyway, you just have to survive for 3 seconds and then you are able to stealth again and leave the fight. Otherwise you are still able to use Infiltrator’s Arrow.

no. YOU won’t see a thief getting behind you. i have positional awareness and know how to keep my back safe. coincidentally, i do fine against glass cannon thieves, while you wage a war against them on the forums.

I don’t get it.
I know Necromancer is underpowered, but looks like people here want to compare him to thieves, thats why I’m arguing here.

so you’re arguing just for the sake of arguing? good to know.

3 seconds? So 3 seconds of revealed can be considered an actual cooldown?
That build posted has at least 38 seconds of cooldown, more if untraited, thanks to Wells, which are the main source of damage.
38 >> 3, you know.
Still, CnD+Backstab only can deal ~11k damage, which is more than the damage both the wells can deal in 5 seconds.

with no defense and the lowest HP possible, 3 seconds is an eternity. and once again, you’re comparing them to necromancers, which are considered to be UNDER powered.

Do you know how much initiative does HS cost? 3. You are going to have 6 initiative after the combo, 8 if you used the minor Shadow Arts trait. You can use 2-3 heartseeker in a row.
Do you know which is the casting time of HS? 3/4
It is just a matter of time, you are going to die from an heartseeker. You can dodge the first, but 2-2-2 will still hit you.
Don’t forget that you are still under immobilization thanks to venom.

do you know how much intiative a thief gets? 12, that can be traited up to 15. CnD costs 6. HS costs 3. 6+3+3=12. thief is out of initiative. if they’ve traited, they have one more HS left available to them. so you only have to deal with 1. if you aren’t a glass cannon yourself, you can heal and deal with it. and the venom was drained in the initial combo, so NO, they’re NOT still under immobilization. stop lying.

Obviously you are considering the case you are with full initiative when the fight against the thief starts, probably an 1vs1, which rarely happens in GW2.

oh. so they’d have even LESS initiative to work with, meaning they couldn’t even get off the extra heartseekers. so their initiative runs out sooner, making them even easier to kill.

condescending rant

i think i’ll just counter you with this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=Ru_rXq2LYg0

sure, it’s WvW, but 13k, 17k, and 24k damage to 3 separate targets in a single attack seems to be quite a bit higher than anything a thief can put out even against a naked guy who’s afk. and as far as effort goes? the guy has a 1500 range, struts around casually, and picks 3 people off at a time. so yeah, that’s quite a bit less effort than anything the thief requires.

and for the record, the thief can only do their burst combo once every 60 seconds. whereas this guy can pop his off every 15, including casting time. so go to the warrior forums and wage your war there. they’re clearly able to do exactly what you claim to be opposing far better than thieves ever could, and with far less effort. only, they don’t have stealth, so i’m guessing you’ll say they’re perfectly balanced, and continue to wage your war here.

bwillb.2165:

Phantom.8130:

post

Oh good, someone who knows the truth and is a bit better at the art of debating

when the majority of the posts are nothing more than “waaaaahhh! stealth is icky! make it go awaaaaaay!” it makes it bit easier to counter them. i just had to remain quiet and watch the situation until i was sure that was the case. and, like in every other game that has a stealth based class, it is.

they seem to be pretty random about how their dispersed. some people gain a ton of them, yet others get very few while both are doing the exact same things. while they might end up getting the same number of kills and drops, they’re not getting the same number of badges. my only guess is that the person who does the most damage to someone is the only one to get the badges, even if it’s a 51%/49% split. though, as i said, that’s just a guess. using siege, however, seems to give the most, which gives a little bit of credence to my theory since siege does a heavy chunk of damage if used properly.

Med.6150:

All that really needed to happen was to nerf utilities that instantly put you into stealth. So yes, Blinding Powder is too weak you say, but that’s only because Shadow Refuge is absolutely overpowered.

Take away the ability to stealth without having a target, without prerequisite and the class would be fine.

I am probably alone with this opinion, but honestly, does anybody here see them buffing our actual survivability before a nerf as described above? Hell they nerfed Shadow Protector, so you know they aren’t even looking at the possibility of making thieves tougher. Thieves will always be squishy as soon as you catch them and thus nerfing the damage must not be done in a vacuum.

ah, but people flock to the forums to whine en masse because they want easy wins. if they keep us squishy, and nerf our damage, people get what they want. granted, they won’t actually improve, and will get steamrolled by everything else. but they’ll just counter that by flocking to the forums for another whine fest to get whatever happened to have killed them that time nerfed into uselessness. but, whenever the nerf-a-thon comes around to their neck of the woods, they’ll be adamant that their class is perfect, and that they’re flawlessly skilled in playing it, and resort to their default (whining) to try to have that nerf halted. and if that doesn’t work, they’ll whine some more to have the nerf reversed. often times pulling imaginary “statistics” out of thin air, or posting cherry picked screenshots with the information that’s actually relevant to the situation curiously absent. they’ll go on about how they’re the top players, without any form of evidence to actually back that claim up. just “i am because i say i am” and really, who would actually be untruthful on this wonderful place we call the internet?

this is the accepted method of properly playing a class. gear? build? ability? those silly things don’t factor into it. just as long as they whine loud and whine often. that determines who has serious skills.

i’m looking forward to the rendering bug being fixed. that should cut down a decent portion of the constant whining about thieves. (though, some will always persist for stealth based classes because whining is easier than adapting.) it will also be nice not to walk into what appears to be an open field, get killed instantly, only to find out 3 minutes later it was actually filled with people the whole time.

for the nerf(s), i have yet to see any numbers stating how anything will be changed, so i can’t really concern myself with it at this point. it’s completely unknown exactly what changes will come, so it might not even be that big of a deal when it does come. it could be crippling. we have no way of knowing yet, so it’s best to see what happens and work from there once it does.

sorrow.2364:

1. It is way harder to use because you have to use all your skill in a specific sequence depending on situations

basilisk venom→assassin’s signet→CnD→mug→backstab, while being behind your target. all their skills, in a specific sequence, depending on situations. your point here is invalid.

2. You are completely defenseless. A backstab thief can still rely on Stealth which is way better as defensive mechanic compared to DS.

a thief can’t rely on stealth, because of the cooldown period after dealing damage from stealth. your point here is invalid, and a flat out lie

3. It is easy to predict. As you can see in the video, only the first warrior died fast. The others succeded to survive the burst.

if a thief gets behind you, it’s extremely easy to predict what will follow, and after they finish of their first target, that target’s buddies will kill the thief. your point here is invalid

4. It puts all your skills on cooldown. You have absolutely no way to do something except autoattacking.

as has been stated countless times, the necromancer is considered to be UNDERpowered. which is the level you wish to bring thieves down to. not balanced. under powered. which means……. your point here is invalid, and extremely transparent.

5. It isn’t repeatable. As a Backstab Thief you can still perform CnD+Backstab after the first strongest burst.

there is a cooldown period on stealth. apparently, you never got the memo. so a theif can’t just keep CnD+backstab after their first strong burst. your point is invalid, and once again, a flat our lie.

6. You don’t have Heartseeker to finish off people with 6k+ damage.

dodge? you have two of them, since you obviously didn’t use one to avoid the backstab combo. use them. thief’s drained of initiative, and is a sitting duck. go kill him. so once again, your point here is invalid.

So yes, they are different in terms of opness.

yes. one has stealth, and stealth scares you. so you wage a personal war against it. the other is capable of the same damage, but doesn’t have stealth, so it gets a free pass. you’ve made it clear that you’ll wage a personal war against the stealth based class, and since you’ve continually pointed out that “you can see the other classes coming” it’s very obvious that your problem lies with stealth and nothing else. you’ve even gone as far as to make countless strawman arguments, and even flat out lie to push your agenda across. the fact is, you don’t like stealth. well, too bad. this game isn’t going to cater to your phobia. no matter how many weak and flawed arguments you present in order to get your own way.

and, for the record, i DON’T play a glass cannon thief. i’d prefer not dying to a strong breeze. so i built my thief for balance. i’ve only ever been killed by two glass cannon thieves. once because i wasn’t paying attention to my surroundings, and opened myself up to being ambushed. the second time was because i was trying to run past them to get to better positioning. i exposed my back, and they capitalized on it. both times were MY fault. i didn’t cry or throw a temper tantrum because they killed me. i’m an adult. i looked at what i did wrong, and made sure i didn’t do that again. i learned from my mistakes and i improved. give it a try some time, and you might actually be happy with the results.

to the CD asura guardian who was on the TC borderlands yesterday taking on like, 5 of us at once……and winning. very well played sir. we ended up having to get a posse of about 15 people just to patrol around to hunt you down after our first few respawns. and i’m guessing when we did finally end up killing you, a lot of your stuff was on cooldown. either that, or it was someone else who just happened to have a similar appearance and was in the wrong place at the wrong time.

i’ve noticed that when a group gets close, trying to use either the cannons or the oil is just plain suicide. standing somewhat close to them isn’t much better. the same applies to even just walking past them. oil is absolutely worthless at this point. cannons are only good if you have a decent sized group tying up the attackers out of their attack range. the time and cost it takes to initially get and later repair them compared to the few seconds it takes for an attacking zerg to kill them (and anyone near them) is light years apart.

Scyntrus.2458:

Scyntrus.2458:

TC, please stop camping our spawn, it is quite unsportsmanlike. Screenies related.

also

to be fair, that’s not really spawn camping there. as you can see, there’s a tower held by TC directly behind that group. that’s just defending that tower. if that defending group leaves, the tower is forfeited.

the other screenshot, yeah, that’s spawn camping. i don’t recognize the guild tag though, but if i see one of them, i’ll say something about it to them.

Shajin.5492:

It would also be nice if the way vertical height was calculated into range was changed a bit. For example on the engineer’s mortar with 1400 range, being on top of a wall negates 700 of that from hieght, so you only have 700 left, which is basically only hitting people hugging the walls. It would be nice if you could actually hit targets that were 1400 range from the wall itself. When attacking it seems like much less of a problem. For example if I throw my grenades and they arc up and hit someone on top it’s no problem. Hard to say exactly how this works, but maybe I can test this out a bit more.

i agree. shooting downward shouldn’t really factor into range. there are times when i’m up to high for something to hit the ground, as though gravity wouldn’t be able to take it there anyway. if range just worked on the horizontal plane, and attacking upwards, it would be ideal. though, i’m guessing they can’t limit upward range without limiting downward as well.

as for the railing, i can see it being a problem if the people are trying to attack are stacked right up against the wall. angles would be a factor. but they angle they’re currently using is brutal. LoS gets pretty much ignored by a railing that comes up to my character’s waist.

i’m definitely looking forward to this one. i’ve been hearing a lot of good things about yak’s, but haven’t had the pleasure of going against you guys yet. i can’t help but think the score is going to end up being neck and neck and neck all the way down to the wire.

i also agree. it just makes sense. especially considering that so many EU guilds are moving to NA servers, and vice versa, to cover off peak hours. essentially, the distinction has already been made obsolete.

i’m a d/d balance build, and death blossom is fantastic in PvE. since it hits multiple targets, you end up getting a ton of xp and loot, especially when rolling with someone who can pull the mobs into a nice little ball for you to murder. the gear gives you toughness too, so you can take a few hits while your bleeds do their thing, or you can just pop stealth and remain untouched while you watch them all die. it’s also pretty good against bosses, if you’re careful about it. use them as the middle portion of a run by, and your initiative will have a little time to regen. so you can do it several times without interruption.