Guild Wars 2

wish.1027:

Phantom.8130:
(2058 + 250 + (35 * 6)) * ((1 * .55) + ((1.5 + 1.2) * .45)) =
4444.27 Damage

Fall:
(2056+250+(35*6)) * ((1 * .48) + ((1.5 + 1.02) * .52)) =
4504.6464 Damage

While I can understand the desire to want to use knights/cavalier, it pretty much can never win. Keep in mind with these damage comparisons too that the damage from omnomberry pies are not added to the Fall calculation, but the food in your build is, and it still loses. Cavalier/Knights should only be used with pretty much all Cav/Knights or its just a waste of space.

you didn’t factor in the extra 5% crit chance from the sigil on the dagger, which would change it from .45 to .5 which brings the total up to 4795.6

wish.1027:

Phantom.8130:

how about this set up?

http://en.gw2skills.net/editor/?fYEQRAoY8YlUmiO3ey5E/5Ey2jdqCJKuHGVS1UdFiKA-jEzA4rBRTWCNRAiKAk8UWzeCiVtioxqrxUuCRa3UbvFkN4KrCBUeBA-w

Hey, I made that build.
Also, it uses the same armor as the one we’re comparing, so the results will be the same. Well, Fall has a bit more crit damage and a bit less power than Mug, so Celestial will be further behind Fall than Mug as Celestial reduces power for more crit damage in an effot to increase damage, which is what the Fall set does compared to Mug, and the more of something you have the less useful adding more of it will be.

EDIT: ack. the changes i made to it didn’t save. one sec…..

EDIT 2: try this one instead: http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fYEQRAoY8YlUmiO3ey5E/5Ey2jdqCJKuHGVS1UdFiKA-j0zAYrAiviMBBksATECUyPiJPl1EIQVrIasqaEtNmyNwq4oavTkJfY1SBExYA-w

the result is higher power, much higher crit damage, lower HP but that’s balanced out by higher toughness. it has slightly higher healing power, condition damage, and magic find as well.

how about this set up?

http://en.gw2skills.net/editor/?fYEQRAoY8YlUmiO3ey5E/5Ey2jdqCJKuHGVS1UdFiKA-jEzA4rBRTWCNRAiKAk8UWzeCiVtioxqrxUuCRa3UbvFkN4KrCBUeBA-w

Auesis.7301:

Phantom.8130:

no one can turn into a tornado in real life, nor transform into animals, nor any of the other things you’ve mentioned. therefore fantasy has to substitute for it. however, people certainly can hide in real life, just like they can stab and shoot people. however, there’s no skill to curve bullets around corners, is there? no, because it would be ridiculously unrealistic. the same way mcstealth currently is. yet, one is acceptable, and one isn’t. a glaring double standard, don’t you think?

What? I see no double standard. I literally have no idea what on earth you’re trying to say in this paragraph. All I got out of that was that some things are unrealistic and some are not…hence, double standard?

Again, what?

After the lore has already explained everything behind how Stealth operates, how can you still pursue the realism argument when it means nothing at all in the game’s context?

As for the proposed change to stealth – promoting stationary gameplay for the class that centres around mobility is quite possibly the worst thing I could ever see implemented for it. I pray that literally none of this happens.

i’ll try this again then. how something works in the real world (stealth, bullet trajectory) should be how it works in the game, as closely as possible. if it’s something that isn’t present in the real world (turning into animals, etc) then they have to make up how it works in the game. it’s not rocket science here.

second, none of this has ANYTHING to do with the topic at hand. the lore does not factor in to any change, because the proposed change would still be 100% lore accurate. meaning, you’ve presented a strawman argument. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strawman_argument definition number 3.

seeing as how NONE of this has ANYTHING to do with the topic, which is suggestions to improve the proposed thief changes, i’ll ask you to remain on topic. offer a suggestion to improve the proposal, or let the topic die.

AnAltruisticEgoist.5476:

3600 hours played on your thief.
Let’s see, game been out roughly 10 months.
So, you would have had to play your thief 9.6 hours everyday to get that many hours played.

I find that highly unlikely.

not that it’s relevant to the topic, but i’m no liar.

Chippalrus.5437:

In a fantasy game where magic exists and you are talking about how stealth is “unrealistic.”

Auesis.7301:

You realise that Stealth is not a literal in-game representation of stealth techniques, but an illusion effect from the Denial branch of Bloodstone magic, the same magic branch that Mesmers use? So that’s the entire realism/authenticity notion out of the window right there.

Even if lore couldn’t back it up, I still wouldn’t be able to take any of that argument seriously. Have you seen any other aspect of the game? Like, at all? I can become a tornado, transform in to animals, pull turrets out of my ears, raise/control the dead, conjure massive spiritual weapons to fight by my side…but to go invisible through the use of illusionary spells?

ARE YOU MAD?!

no one can turn into a tornado in real life, nor transform into animals, nor any of the other things you’ve mentioned. therefore fantasy has to substitute for it. however, people certainly can hide in real life, just like they can stab and shoot people. however, there’s no skill to curve bullets around corners, is there? no, because it would be ridiculously unrealistic. the same way mcstealth currently is. yet, one is acceptable, and one isn’t. a glaring double standard, don’t you think?

and i realize where the thief’s abilities originate in the lore, and it would be affected either way with the system i proposed. it would still have the same magical elements to it with the mobile stealth. however, the stationary stealth would be far closer to realism, and would be the base mechanic that mobile stealth works from. plus, all of the other thief abilities would still be covered by the denial school of magic as well, such as their ability to teleport via shadowstep.

the only thing i can think of would be lag causing the skill to double cast before the revealed debuff triggered.

Viking Jorun.5413:

Just because we don’t agree with anything you’ve suggested doesn’t mean that we’re being destructive toward the class. We’ve made thread after thread of our own opinions and suggestions, and the most positive reactions come from those which were accompanied by a lot of thought. Your perception of the class is obviously misconstrewn and you seem to expect us to have the survivability of a guardian, the AoE damage support if a staff ele and the condition application of a necro, which obviously we don’t have. Why do you think people run sigils of fire on P/P builds for zerg support? I’m sorry, but I’m going to stop posting after this. I can’t offer anything constructive when you defend your untainted opinion until death, and I can’t take it seriously. If suggest any further readers do the same and let the topic die.

I’m sorry to come off so mean, but honestly not much thought was put into this and you add more to it in each post which makes it hard for anyone to follow your exact vision. I’m sure it’s candy land in your mind, but from our unbiased perspectives it turns sour the more we read.

i’ll be perfectly frank here. you’ve flat out invented what you believe my opinion is, and have been nothing but condescending throughout this entire thread. you have offered nothing of merit or value to the conversation, and have only habitually trolled it with several flat out insults.

considering that you missed the part where i stated (several times) that it was a first draft, a starting point to build off of, and the numerous requests for suggestions on improving what was written in the first post, it appears you haven’t even really been paying attention to what’s been written.

and i hope that you do stop posting, because absolutely nothing you have posted has even been remotely close to useful. no matter how many times you may deny it, it doesn’t change that. as i said before, step up or step aside. you flat out refuse to step up, so i respectfully ask that you step aside.

that being said, to those who actually do have suggestions for changes to the proposal presented in the first post, please voice them. what should be changed, and what should it be changed to?

Dual.8953:

As nice as this sounds, the only place that really has any hope of warranting this kind of play is Solo Roaming in WvW, where your targets will be Dolyaks and other soloists. Stealth gameplay needs the entire game to be built around it to have purpose. GW2 isn’t built around stealth gameplay, aside from 1% of the PvE content, which isn’t surprising. Making a multiplayer game stealth based is enough of a pipe dream as it is. Making an MMO of it is pretty much impossible, because you’re trying to make players into aspects of a puzzle.
This is probably why stealth is the way it is in this game. If thief was designed the way you envision it, it’d be hands down the most useless class in this game, having to spend time planning out how to tackle content that every other class would just plow through. Every class needs to be able to participate in large scale fights.

the thief, as it stands, is horrible in large scale fights. we can either share venoms then avoid as much combat as possible, or spam clusterbomb into combo fields then avoid as much combat as possible. maybe picking off a straggler here and there that gets separated from their group. aside from that, we’re actually discouraged to avoid large scale fights because we add very little to the group(less than any other class) while dying so easily.

hence the weaponsets i proposed. d/x = burst set, relies on heavy opener from stealth. p/x = condition set, relies on avoiding the enemy while their HP gets whittled down. s/x = control set, relies on keeping the enemy unable defend or counter attack. shortbow = AoE set, relies on spamming their AoEs at their feet. rifle = long ranged set, relies on hanging in the back, and selectively picking off enemies.

d/x would rely heavily on stealth, p/x would rely on mobility, s/x would rely on being able to chain CC. shortbow would rely on enemy positioning. rifle would rely on positioning and stealth, or positioning behind a group.

which would mean that d/x would work how i described in my previous post. p/x would work by having a few ways to apply condition damage, then surviving though teleports and evades and short term mobile stealth if necessary, as well as just general movement and dodges. s/x would work by having access to multiple forms of CC, as well as evasion/dodges for when an enemy uses a CC break. shortbow would work how it does now, 42222. the rifle would work like a sniper. which would result in multiple viable weapon sets for small, medium and large group play.

something to bear in mind, though, is that there’s a reason i continually asked everyone to offer suggestions. obviously, a lot of the weapon sets need refined. as i stated numerous times, it’s just a starting point to begin working from. nothing is set in stone, nor was ever presented to be. i was hoping the community would be willing to share their insight to improve the weapon sets. seeing that you were the only person to actually offer any suggestions whatsoever, the evidence points to me placing far too much faith in the community to actually be constructive as opposed to destructive.

Slimooze.3068:

This was a nice read. I find your opinion very interesting. In my opinion ‘thievery’ should be more about patience than annoying gameplay. People who think no rework is needed should realzie 70% thieves play the exact same skills (yeah it’s a rough estimation from my experience).

At the end of the day, what is the use for a class that brings more anger than fun in a videogame ?

Sidenote : no need to answer me, I won’t come in this thread anytime soon, I am just showing support to OP because too many people just show dismissal in this thread.

i completely agree that thievery should be about patience than annoying gameplay. survey the area, select your mark, wait for your opportunity, make the most of it when it presents itself, clear out of the immediate area to avoid being caught, move to your next surveillance point to restart the process until either you’ve killed everyone one by one or have been caught and killed yourself. succeed through making intelligent decisions or pay the consequences of making poor ones.

Incurafy.6329:

wish.1027:

Viking Jorun.5413:

Thief doesn’t need a rework, end of discussion.

qft

x 359823962 + 1

Why? No… just no…

I’m not going to actually give a post full of reasons why because 1. No, just no… 2. I can’t be bothered 3. It would take me an hour to do a write up on why this is so terrible.

However, I will say one thing:

Your notion that stealth in this game is an insult to stealth is ridiculous. Stealth in this game is how Anet decided to make it. That’s like saying that Guild Wars 2 is an insult to MMO’s because there’s no healing class. This is your opinion, and it’s entirely wrong. You can’t say that “this game mechanic is wrong, this game mechanic only works like this” because a game mechanic works however the kitten the developers want it to work.

No mate, just no.

EDIT: Lol @ your apparent belief that “troll builds” are somehow useless or unfair and not to be taken seriously.

alright, i’ll give this a shot….

to your two points, one. you are solely thinking in terms of video games. it’s almost like you’re discounting anything aside from what appears on your monitor. stealth exists in the real world as well, and it works absolutely nothing like the mcstealth in this game. games with good stealth mimic reality in their physics of the dynamic. games with bad stealth ignore reality and in turn to gimmick mechanics. much like how sports games mimic the physics and strategies of real life sports.

two, i never once said anything about troll builds being unfair. i’m not sure where you’re pulling that “information” out of, but you may want to do some fact checking with your source. however, i do feel that they are useless for the most part. how well can you troll NPC mobs in PVE? you can’t, they’re AI controlled and always follow the same scripted behavior. how well does it help you capture and/or defend objectives in WvW? not at all. you can gank random stragglers, but are unable to actually contribute to your server’s overall effort in any meaningful way. how well does it allow you to capture/defend objectives in SPvP? capture, you might just be able to help there. defense, not at all. you can’t contest a point while in stealth. you don’t have the defenses to stay alive if you’re not in stealth. your best bet is to try to be a distraction while the rest of your team does the heavy lifting.

Haltair.3062:

Haltair, one of the Twelve Shadows

after reading a lot of your posts on the thief forums, i’ve really been wanting to get a chance to see you in action first hand. (no, not that kind of action, and no, not with the cows….. i know how the minds of some of the people reading this are wired…..)

if you’re interested, i’d like to set up a duel. granted, you’ll probably smack me around, but it should be fun none the less. the only problem is that i’m in NA(north america, not narcotics anonymous glares at the people thinking about the cows….), and tend to be on later at night. even still, i’d like to at least make an attempt to set something up. send me a whisper in game.

Viking Jorun.5413:

I’m supporting the argument that Thief does not in fact need a rework. If you can’t handle a little criticism from an equally well versed and perhaps more experienced thief I’d suggest you not post such a controversial topic not expecting opposition.

so, in short, you’re not going to offer any suggestions for improvement, just wish to crap on the concept entirely, and continue to spout about how superior you are? and…. you expect to be taken seriously in a thread that was presented as a proposal, a think tank, and solely for improving the thief class for all sides of the equation?

you could have just said that up front and saved us both a lot of time.

Dual.8953:

Phantom.8130:

Dual.8953:

Sorry but I can’t support this. It heavily favours the burst sets, but throws S/D Control under the bus.

if you have suggestions on how to improve s/d, i would be very open to hearing them. s/x should be the control set, so anything that would improve it to be so would be welcome.

It’s tricky. S/D thrived on frequent access to Tactical Strike, which puts on one the opposite end of the spectrum to D/x builds. It’s focus was to try to daze as often as possible, like a more defensive, mobile version of S/P. What they may have to do is turn tactical strike into a much stronger CC skill then it already is. Like make it the CC equivalent of backstab. Anything else would be giving a greater benefit to one of the sets it shares skills with.
What could be done is making Stealth Skills determine the amount of revealed. Say make BS do 10 sec and Tactical Strike do 3 sec, and have 10 as the base for natural ending and non-stealth skills.

hmm… i see two ways to go with this. one would be to give each stealth attack some measure of reduction to the revealed debuff. another would be to make it damage dependent, possibly working off of a percentage of the target’s health. (if they’re hit for 80% of their HP, there would be an 8 second debuff. there would need to be a minimum threshold for that though, so up to 30% for a minimum revealed of 3 seconds could work.)

Viking Jorun.5413:

I run a TL science build that’s a condition bunker reliant on stealth and Uncatchable to troll an entire team for in-stealth survivability. Stealth in itself doesn’t cater to burst because of the sheer amount of options for stealth that aren’t viable in burst builds. We’re finally getting to a nice niche with a multitude of practical builds for sPvP, so I don’t see the need for a rework. As I stated before, your other changes seem baseless and individualized with no synergy connecting them, possibly to only benefit you and screw everyone else who uses something that isn’t inherently burst, and if you truely believe that our mechanics already cater to burst then you’re not helping the class at all in creating build diversity.

i’m not sure why you’ve decided to take a rather demeaning tone, but it’s not going to make me bask in awe and go sulking away. (for the record “i was in a guild that had a podcast” doesn’t qualify you to create a stealth system in any way shape or form. seeing as how you’re claiming to have been part of the team that created this gimmick mechanic, it’s no surprise that you know how to create, in your own words, a “troll” build. which, once again, does nothing to add to your credentials. in fact, that shows clear ignorance of the actual subject matter entirely.)

once again, i will state that if you have any suggestions for improvements of this proposal, please state them. if not, then you have nothing of value to add to this conversation. nothing you’ve said so far has in any way been constructive. if you don’t feel what was listed has synergy, offer a suggestion on how to give it synergy. waving your kitten around, talking down to me, and then hurling insults does no such thing.

bottom line. step up, or step aside.

Viking Jorun.5413:

That’s completely out of your opinion, and I highly doubt you’ve stood in Lion’s Arch offering to teach people how to counter thieves. I joined Team Legacy in November to better myself as a player and come out on top as an accomplished member of the guild wars 2 community. I’ve spent entire weeks without sleep in the TL teamspeak theorycrafting science builds and improvements to game mechanics which Freelancer and Bridger both conveyed in ToT, our weekly podcast. Several of our ideas made it in game in part to the fact that ToT was such a successful podcast, and also in thanks to the name TL once held. Stealth was one of the topics we revisited over and over, and stationary stealth was brought up several times due to its heavy limitations it would have on the class as a whole. Your 5 second stationary cast time wouldn’t synergize at all with your 2-3 second mobile stealth of blinding powder, and the reduction in stealth times out of stationary stealth would be attrocious to Shadow’s Rejuvination, and any build that relies on it. How do you expect this would bring balance to the class in sPvP and tPvP when already people spam their 1 skills until the chain goes through to determine where the thief is? No only that, but the duration of stealth from blinding powder, even when initiating the cast of stationary stealth would leave 2 seconds of being revealed thus showing our opponent exactly where our hiding place is.

Guild Wars 2 is all about mobile combat. You stop moving and you die, essentially. Why do you think the warrior’s 100 Blades is such a terrible move in PvP, yet so powerful? I acknowledge that your stationary stealth mechanic is no doubt powerful if you’re able to find a safe place and stay there infinitely, but this would suffer from the same fate as 100 Blades.

Moving away from stealth, your changes cater to burst, and more than less decrease build diversity in condition builds using dagger mainhand and sword builds that don’t rely on stealth (as well as the few “bunker” builds which are starting to pop up that use minimal if any stealth).

I’m sorry but having done the math behind the thief I see no good in any of this except to make burst players happy and cater to your own needs.

actually, i HAVE stood in lion’s arch when i was on TC and extended the offer in /map when two people were talking about how OP stealth was. not a single person took me up on my offer. and yes, it is my opinion, but as someone that actually has knowledge in the field of study, it’s a highly educated opinion backed up by countless hours of practical application.

and, as i stated preciously. mobile stealth would be instant cast. the 5 second cast time is solely for stationary stealth, when someone is entering stealth from being visible. if they’re visible and running around, it takes 5 seconds to enter directly into stationary stealth. if they are already in stealth, then there’s no need for any cast times to initiate stealth. meaning, someone can move in short bursts and stay hidden. if they overextend, are forced to move, or they attack, then they end up exposed.

if you’ve done the math, then you realize that stealth already caters to burst. if you have suggestions to round out condition and control builds, by all means, feel free to include them in the conversation. as i said, this is just a starting point to build from.

Dual.8953:

Sorry but I can’t support this. It heavily favours the burst sets, but throws S/D Control under the bus.

if you have suggestions on how to improve s/d, i would be very open to hearing them. s/x should be the control set, so anything that would improve it to be so would be welcome.

Viking Jorun.5413:

Black Teagan.9215:

I think, in many things the thief need rly a complete overhaul, but not everywhere.
E.g. in the mobility and hp pool, also should the dmg of BS reduce and the base dmg increase.

Viking Jorun.5413:

Thief doesn’t need a rework, end of discussion.

No Arguments inside, so your post can be ignored.

I want him to give me a reason it needs a rework besides “giving other classes a chance” and “because this is how it works in other games”. Most other classes have a hard time dealing with thieves due to a lack of knowledge about the class and the stealth mechanic, and all it takes is some education to beat a good thief. We don’t need a rework because we work just fine, and the changes the OP wants to make are baseless and don’t synergize well.

two things.

first, if you check my posting history, you’ll see that i’ve been one of the people defending thieves since launch. stealth isn’t too difficult to counter once someone understands how it works. i’ve found that most people would rather complain than learn to counter it, even when someone is standing in lion’s arch offering to teach.

second, it’s not stealth. it’s a ridiculous parlor trick that has absolutely nothing to do with how stealth actually works. it’s a gimmick mechanic. take a chef from a 5 star restaurant to mcdonalds, and see what his reaction is. he would look at his big mac with disdain and say that’s its an affront to his profession. take anyone from the UFC to a tai-bo class and they’ll be horrified when they hear how many of the “students” there think they actually learned some self defense. like with cuisine and martial arts, stealth is an art form. the current “mcstealth” is an abomination. it’s a hideous insult that’s degrading to an entire art form.

Travlane.5948:

i applaud the effort but stopped after you said 5 sec cast time and stand still while casting. useless and makes thief 90% less potent at dmg. :P sorry. you would have to implement stealth a lil diff. maybe keep it the same but give it a faint outline or something. it hink its fine the way it is. you forget we are teh 2nd worst class although the most hated. hated bc people have pride and wanna beat us at 1 v 1 even those we cant do anything else :/

the time is just for the permanent stationary stealth, and can also be lowered if necessary. the mobile stealth would still be instant so that it can be used to capitalize on any opportunities the instant they present themselves.

Myrmix.5460:

Good Ideas, although some things would need a rework.
The biggest advantage of stealth at the moment is the small time between stealths. If Thiefes would be longer visible, other classes have at least a chance to beat them up and it wouldn’t be that easy to finish a fight whenever a thief wants and requires more thinking from the thiefplayers.
I hope, Anet changes something soon, can’t see everyone running with d/p around, thief could be better than using just 1 strong build.

like i said, this is just a first draft. it’s definitely not a finished product, however it’s a starting point to build from. the point of me posting it here was to get an idea think tank going, so that it can be developed into a final product.

the weapon skills in particular are wide open for suggestions for alternatives. which is what i’m still holding out hope for.

frans.8092:

Phantom.8130:

an attack would count as movement, so it would give the revealed debuff, like it currently already does.

So you can’t move at all? Then what’s your mobile stealth?
Why keep backstab if you’ll never be stealthed to land it anyway – seeing as you move when stabbing and thus are never stealthed when you hit. Not to mention that you’ll never be able to get into position to hit anyone when not being able to move.

Terrible ideas. Sorry, waste of everyone’s time.

the stealth weapon skills would work similar to how they do now. a short term stealth used for positioning. which would still be magical in nature.

You just said stealth ends when moving, so how exactly would one use stealth for positioning?

what? no. mobile stealth would work exactly how it does currently. you have 3 seconds to get into position to make your backstab. if it lands, you get the revealed debuff. with this, if it doesn’t land, you get the revealed debuff if those 3 seconds run out as well.

normal stealth ends if you move. however, you can use one of your mobile stealth skills to have up to 3 seconds of movement before it ends. either way, once stealth ends, you get the revealed debuff.

Kyrion.2749:

Stealth in GW2 is magical in nature. It comes from the illusion and deception schools of magic and that’s why other classes are unable to do it, except for mesmers which -not suprisingly- also have access to that type of magic.

Your system is good, for a low-magic setting. But since it’s not based in magic, then every class should be able to benefit from it. Your stealth mode would be applicable to every class, or is that thieves are able to crouch and hide their noses better than a warrior?

You want a realistic, tactical, stealth in a surrealistic, magical game.

Edit: And after reading your proposed skill changes, most of them make no sense at all, only sharing between them an unjustified, visceral, plain hatred to stealth.

the stealth weapon skills would work similar to how they do now. a short term stealth used for positioning. which would still be magical in nature.

stealth is a skill that must be trained. some people train, and become good at it, while others (such as the warrior) spend their time training in other areas. thieves would spend their time training in stealth, and therefore would be better at it. as is represented by the stealth mode. which, since it would grant invisibility, would still be magical in nature.

Renxian.6982:

This system is god awful. Your “solutions” don’t actually make any sense.

Forcing us to remain stationary for stealth, destroying the weaponsets, 10 second reveal for being mobile while stealth ends? 10 second reveal for moving at all with “stationary stealth” We all know how long statues survive in pvp afterall.

What were you trying to achieve? Just permanently destroy the class?

as i stated, the majority of the weaponsets are exactly the same as they currently are.

the way it would work would be you would use your mobile stealth to get to a hiding spot, let your stationary stealth take over while you hide there, then use your mobile stealth again to get into position for your backstab/sneak attack. so the gameplay would be similar to every single other game out there that makes use of stealth whatsoever.

frans.8092:

You have 2 different kinds of Stealth? One, lets call it Stationary Stealth, that ends when moving, but has an otherwise indefinite duration and a Mobile Stealth that , I would assume, has a fixed, limited duration but does not end on movement. Revealed is only applied when moving under Stationary Stealth, or when moving when Mobile Stealth ends, but not, as it is not stated, when hitting and damaging targets, once in Mobile Stealth one could backstab, backstab, backstab, cloack and dagger, backstab, …repeat?

an attack would count as movement, so it would give the revealed debuff, like it currently already does.

Evilek.5690:

Let me guess you are d/p Thief right ?
No seriously your change make 90% weapon setup unplayable and the only viable build would be d/p.

you…. DO realize that 90% of the skills i have listed are exactly the same as they are currently, correct? aside from the rifle, i changed a total of 6 weapon skills. the rest are exactly as they are now.

and no. i don’t play a d/p thief.

Stealth mode
– 5 second cast time.
– moving during casting cancels the casting.
– no limit on stealth time BUT
– thief must remain stationary while in stealth mode
– moving while fully in stealth mode grants 10 second revealed debuff
– when in stealth mode, emotes (such as /sit, /kneel, and sleep) still function. however they do not broadcast in any chat channel whatsoever.

Blinding Powder
– grants 3-4 seconds of mobile stealth
– can be used in combat, on a 90 second cooldown
– and if the thief is moving when it expires they get the 10 second revelead debuff.

Shadow Refuge
– house symbol is removed
– circle remains
– grants stealth as it does currently, with the same movement limitations as blinding powder
– changed to an elite skill

WEAPON SETS
Dagger/Dagger (burst set)
– 1: auto attack/backstab, no change
– 2: heartseeker, no change
– 3: parry mode, works similar to nine-tailed strike where it blocks then counter attacks
– 4: throwing dagger, no change
– 5: new skill. grants 3 seconds of mobile stealth. costs 6 initiative. can be stacked with itself. causes 10 second revealed debuff once stealth expires due to any reason

Pistol/Pistol (condition set)
– 1: auto attack/sneak attack, no change
– 2: new unload, 3 shots from 1 pistol, each shot does minor damage and gives 1 stack of bleeding, costs 4 initiative
– 3: hail of bullets, works like a 2 second dagger storm with no defense buffs. costs 5 initiative
– 4: ankle shot, moderate damage, 5 second cripple, 3 initiative
– 5: new black powder, 5 second AoE burning, 3 second stealth, no longer a combo field, costs 6 initiative

Sword/Dagger (control set)
– 1: autoattack/tactical strike, no change
– 2: infiltrator’s strike, no change
– 3: flanking strike/larcenous strike, no change other than fixed evade pathing
– 4: throwing dagger, see above
– 5: new stealth skill, see above

Sword/Pistol (control set)
– 1: autoattack/tactical strike, no change
– 2: infiltrator’s strike, no change
– 3: postol whip, higher damage, no change otherwise
– 4: ankle shot, see above
– 5: new black powder, see above

Dagger/Pistol (burst set)
– 1: auto attack/backstab, no change
– 2: heartseeker, no change
– 3: shadow shot, no change
– 4: ankle shot, see above
– 5: new black powder, see above

Pistol/Dagger (condition set)
– 1: autoattack/sneak attack, no change
– 2: new unload, see above
– 3: shadow strike, does torment damage instead of burst damage
– 4: throwing dagger, no change
– 5: new stealth skill, see above

Shortbow
– no change at all

Rifle (new weapon, mostly theoretical)
– 1: autoattack/bayonette. 1200 range
– 2: 3 round burst – costs 4 initiative. moderate damage. 600 range
– 3: rifle butt – costs 3 initiative. 120 range, knockdown, light damage
– 4: piercing shot – costs 6 initiative, 1200 range, pierces, moderate damage
– 5: sniper shot – costs 10 initiative. heavy damage. 1500 range, 3 second cast time

I’ve put almost 3600 hours into my thief, and there was always something that made my skin crawl about it all the way back to when i was first reading the wiki about the class pre-launch. stealth. (Before anyone chimes in to flog it to death, no, it’s not OP once you actually wrap your mind around how it works.) However, as someone who has always played a stealth character in every game I’ve installed, has written a manual on how to hide without using any stealth mechanics for one of the games, and has taught numerous students in stealth across multiple games, stealth in GW2 was just downright offensive to the art form. It was so unbelievably unrealistic and gimmicky, and completely useless for anything real world stealth would be used for. It just plain wasn’t stealth. It was a cheap parlor trick that was a slap in the face to anyone that even had a slight clue how stealth really worked.

So, I began thinking up alternative systems. Originally, I had come up with a purely environmental system that operated off of a “ghost” mode, which removed the name tag over the character’s head, as well as the chat spam for the emotes. It changed the weapon slots to realistic stealth based “poses” (for lack of a better term) and put the onus on the player to learn at least basic knowledge of how stealth actually works to make efficient use of it. The drawback was that most people wouldn’t want to put in countless hours of study and practice, and would end up filing mass bug reports/complaints that the stealth system wasn’t working.

So, I went back to the drawing board. The biggest hurdle I had was that unless it was handled very very carefully, it would require a complete rewrite of the traits and skills. Which would be entirely too much work to be worth it at this stage. So it was important to keep as much as possible intact, while only changing the key factors. I operated mainly on memory of the traits, based on the thousands of hours I spent playing the class and tinkering with my build.

This is the first draft of what I came up with. If there are any problems I may have overlooked, please feel free to point it out. All I ask is that everything is done in a respectful and productive manner. Please leave any of the “OP NERF/L2P” banter to any of the other thousands of threads in this forum and others, and let’s stay focused on the topic at hand to help improve the game for everyone. Not just one side of the equation at the expense of the other.

(Continued)

aelflune.8590:

The point, which you missed, is that stealth gives an opening advantage to the thief. Yes, 1 player will have the initiative at the beginning of combat, but stealth almost always ensures that the thief has it. This is a clear advantage, doubly-so if the other player is not aware that there is a thief about because the thief is completely invisible (in my previous example, I am fighting an NPC guard when a thief appears out of nowhere and backstabs me). There is no one else who has such an advantage.

i’d like to comment on this part here. the thief is an ambush class. what you described is an ambush situation. that’s exactly where a thief is supposed to have the advantage. if the ambush class didn’t have an advantage in ambush situation, while being at a disadvantage in most other situation (like the thief is currently), that class would be completely worthless. also, if a player is unaware that a thief is around, that has more to do with their own perception than anything else. even the d/p build leaves clues that the thief is around (the red ring from black powder, for example). someone who pays attention to their surroundings is actively protecting themselves against thieves. those who don’t are leaving themselves wide open to get ambushed by the ambush class.

and yeah, even an NPC counts against you in a 1vX argument. there are two enemies you have to kill. it doesn’t matter that one happens to be controlled by AI. it’s still two things trying to kill you. meaning, you’ve found yourself at a numerical disadvantage. the only reason you should have a chance to win that fight is through superior play against a very bad player controlled second enemy. if player skill is evenly matched, the person who has any allies on their side, whether they’re player or AI controlled, should win the fight. even if it’s a upleveled ranger and an NPC guard against you, you’re at the same disadvantage. balance is NOT being able to take on two enemies at once, choosing to ignore the ambush class while fighting an NPC, getting ambushed by the ambush class while focusing on the NPC, and winning. that’s poor play and self entitlement.

it’s because gary roberts got a copy of the game, and EVERYONE was outmanned:

it’s amazing how unbelievably simple of a fix there is to all of this. crafting. when ascended gear was introduced, jewelrycrafting ended up as just a cheap alternative to the good stuff. the…. mr pib to the ascended dr. pepper. it came with a tedious grind through fractals. then it was time gated through the laurel vendor. then an easy way to get it came out with the guild comms, but guild missions are primarily aimed toward larger guilds.

so…… add them to the crafting recipes. if you look through them, one stage of gear requires 8 materials, and the one after it requires 15 of the same material. not so with tier 6 materials. it’s just 5 for level 80 exotics, and that’s all. which leaves room for a second stage of them, for 15 (or possibly even more) tier 6 mats and ectos, and problem solved. everything goes back to the way it was before the ascended gear was introduced, and the full final tier of gear comes in with a wide variety of ways to get it just like exotic has.

the ascended set is rounded out, crafting doesn’t end up being obsolete, and the gear treadmill is shut down. after that, it’s just a matter of legendary armor, if they decide to put that in at any point, but that would be on par with legendary weapons and wouldn’t be a new step on the treadmill.

problem solved.

if you turn the number of players down, it should help a great deal. you might even be able to turn some of the other things back up a little bit.

johnpoc.8732:

The best way to get the developers attention is to submit a support ticket. To save some time add a PingPlotter and a NCSoft Game Advisor report.
Sending the ticket makes the aware of the problem and also provides them a hand-full of information that might help solve the problem.
https://en.support.guildwars2.com/

I just tried that. They lied, and blamed the problem on my ISP, which has zero trouble with any other game.

add me to the list.

USA
- Verizon

LoneWolfie.1852:

Thieves have been nerfed pretty hard from the start and as I expected the class is getting really kittenty to use.

yep….. it’s actually gotten to the point where “just ignore the thief” is the advice given for how to deal with them, just like “just ignore the rogue” is the advice given in WoW. yay…..

WvW became even more of a massive lag filled zergfest when they introduced the WXP system, and never shifted away from that. in fact, the majority of the updates just steered into the skid.
no raids.
IoJ had a guild exodus a little while back and is now ranked 17th, but is slated to drop down to 18th next week according to: http://mos.millenium.org/na

why not have it so a guild can keep their upgrades and influence if they transfer to a server that’s 5 or more ranks below the one they’re currently on? as has been pointed out, server population=! WvW population. giving benefits for transferring to a lower population server doesn’t equate to balancing out the WvW population. there’s no need for PvE or sPvP players to transfer servers. if there’s too many of them somewhere, oh well, they go into an overflow and continue on as normal. no big deal. if the WvW population between the 3 servers in a match isn’t close, it ends up as a stompfest with no side having nearly as much fun as they could. so they have to focus solely on balancing out the WvW population. and to do that, guilds need incentives to move to where they’re needed, not be punished for it under a one size fits all blanket system that has consistently proven to be a colossal failure. because if a guild is punished for staying on a server through queues, and punished for moving to a smaller server through losing all of their hard work, pretty much any other option on the market that doesn’t consistently punish its playerbase no matter what they do starts to look a whole lot more attractive.

new classes = good
new traits added to existing trees = good
more points to play around with = whole new balancing act, but….. acceptable
new gear grind = BAD

one of the selling points of this game to me initially was that i wouldn’t have to worry about a gear treadmill. ascended gear took a dump on that, but they seemed to accept it as a mistake, so it was forgivable. however, that doesn’t mean that they didn’t put themselves on thin ice with a large portion of the playerbase, or that they ever moved off said thin ice. if ascended gear caused an uproar, a new multi-level gear grind will cause an exodus. by the time an expansion comes out, many new MMO options will already be out there. gw2 will already need to do what it can to retain as much of its playerbase as possible when the other games come out, failing to learn from their previous mistake with ascended gear is akin to putting advertisements for wildstar, TESO, and even WoW right on their homepage with a 15% off coupon.

no company that actually cares about its product would so blatantly shoot themselves in the foot.

might as well change it to torment, since that’s the new condition. i mgith be one of the few people that can recall a few times where last refuge actually pulled me out of a jam, but i’d be fine with this change.

sorrow.2364:

Phantom.8130:

i’m not the one with the history of making things up to support a flawed argument, then switching around what i say, and say the complete opposite to support another flawed argument in a blatant personal war against something as ridiculous as a class in a video game. you, however…..: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/members/showposts/sorrow-2364/1

it’s all there in black and white. i don’t even need to say a word, you’ve done all the arguing on both sides of pretty much every topic already. you’re a troll, and not even a very good one at that. i’m just trying to save you further embarrassment. if you want to keep making a fool of yourself on an internet forum, be my guest.

I did switch what I say only if fact changes.
In 7 months, there was 7 different patch full of changes to the game.
Do I have to keep saying that instagib build is still too strong after the nerfs? Do I have to keep saying that Stealth is still OP after the Revealed nerf? Do I have to keep saying that condi thieves are cheap due to caltrops after its duration nerf?

Last time I said that something was too cheap about thief, was about Flanking Strike which was, in fact, nerfed in the 25 june patch with increased initiative.

I don’t think anymore that Thief is OP as I don’t agree with the huge amount of people in these forums who like to cry for buffs for the Thief class.

I don’t know what’s your purpose. But it’s YOUR OPINION that my arguments are flawed. And, honestly, I don’t feel the urge to dig in your post history to prove my points as you do.

The “you are an internet troll”, also, is a nice touch of stupidity. Congrats.

i’m not digging into MY history. i’m digging into YOUR history, and YOUR history is filled with counterarguments against….. YOURSELF. you’re just using anyone that responds to you as a medium in which you argue with yourself. in fact, it’s a bit alarming, as there actually is an explanation for such behavior: http://addadhdadvances.com/ODD.html

now, i don’t know whether you actually suffer from oppositional defiant disorder or not, but you’ve spent 9 months arguing with everyone and everyone, including yourself about everything. if you don’t believe me, and i’m sure you don’t, spend some time reading through your own posting history. it’s all there for you to see.

sorrow.2364:

Phantom.8130:

sorrow, stop. seriously. 2 seconds of looking at your post history is enough to utterly destroy anything you have to say about thieves. why? in this thread, you argue that a thief shouldn’t be a clusterbomb spamming blast finisher turret, and that they have viable support builds. yet…… in this thread here: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/thief/Still-absolutely-abysmal/first#post2300952 you state that a thief should be a clusterbomb spamming blast finisher turrent, and that venom sharing is “the only viable support build”. you are literally contradicting yourself just to argue with people who play thieves. honestly, no one needs to debate anything with you, since you’re already contradicting yourself in the span of mere minutes.

looking quite a bit further back into your post history, in this thread from 7 months ago, you stated that you were fighting a personal war to nerf thieves: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/thief/Still-absolutely-abysmal/first#post2300952 and just like back then, you’re arguing just for the sake of arguing.

and here’s the kicker. you’re the same as you were all those months ago. you don’t like the thief class because it has stealth, so you say whatever you need to to argue with any point that’s brought up. in fact, taking an in depth look at your posting history, you’re arguing about how OP pretty much every single class except the necro(which you play) is, by using arguments that other people presented against you.

honestly, i would be humiliated by the clear hypocrisy on my part if i were to do such a thing. dignity and integrity will do that.

oh….. right…. here: http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/dignity?s=t and http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/integrity?s=t

So, is taking the post history of someone, pick some sentences out of their contest and time setting and use them against you an effective tactic to discredit someone?
Yeah, just like if in 7 months nothing happened. No patch were released.
There wasn’t any change to stealth mechanic (Revealed, uh?) or instagib builds (CnD and Mug?), right?

Is responding to my reasoning that hard that people feels forced to dig in my whole post history to find some straw to grasp at? You aren’t the first one to do so.

I don’t know if it’s you lack comprehension or I can’t write in english properly (if so, I’m sorry).
Cluster Bomb turret = someone who stand on walls in WvWvW using cluster bomb against people who are down or someone who is down and uses Cluster Bomb against people who are up on the walls.
Just in case you didn’t undestood.
How is this related to Blast Finishing?

Also, if you read my whole posts in the topic you linked with your brain set to “on” mode, you’ll realize that there is a difference between support and full support builds.

i’m not the one with the history of making things up to support a flawed argument, then switching around what i say, and say the complete opposite to support another flawed argument in a blatant personal war against something as ridiculous as a class in a video game. you, however…..: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/members/showposts/sorrow-2364/1

it’s all there in black and white. i don’t even need to say a word, you’ve done all the arguing on both sides of pretty much every topic already. you’re a troll, and not even a very good one at that. i’m just trying to save you further embarrassment. if you want to keep making a fool of yourself on an internet forum, be my guest.

sorrow, stop. seriously. 2 seconds of looking at your post history is enough to utterly destroy anything you have to say about thieves. why? in this thread, you argue that a thief shouldn’t be a clusterbomb spamming blast finisher turret, and that they have viable support builds. yet…… in this thread here: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/thief/Still-absolutely-abysmal/first#post2300952 you state that a thief should be a clusterbomb spamming blast finisher turrent, and that venom sharing is “the only viable support build”. you are literally contradicting yourself just to argue with people who play thieves. honestly, no one needs to debate anything with you, since you’re already contradicting yourself in the span of mere minutes.

looking quite a bit further back into your post history, in this thread from 7 months ago, you stated that you were fighting a personal war to nerf thieves: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/thief/Still-absolutely-abysmal/first#post2300952 and just like back then, you’re arguing just for the sake of arguing.

and here’s the kicker. you’re the same as you were all those months ago. you don’t like the thief class because it has stealth, so you say whatever you need to to argue with any point that’s brought up. in fact, taking an in depth look at your posting history, you’re arguing about how OP pretty much every single class except the necro(which you play) is, by using arguments that other people presented against you.

honestly, i would be humiliated by the clear hypocrisy on my part if i were to do such a thing. dignity and integrity will do that.

oh….. right…. here: http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/dignity?s=t and http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/integrity?s=t and here’s one for your posting history: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Troll_%28Internet%29

Mist Y.5214:

Shutting down WvW at any time of the day is completely ridiculous, but for those who think night-capping is fair, consider this:
Imagine you have a match-up with 3 equally populated, skilled, and organised servers. Let’s say two of them are based in NA timezones, and the other one is primarily Asian. The Asian prime time begins as the NA servers hit their dead hours, but when the two NA servers are awake, most of the Asians have gone to bed.
This means that for half of the day, the two NA servers can control all the maps, with no resistance from the Asians. Then they go to bed, the Asian server caps everything and holds it for ~12 hours.
Thus, each NA server controls half the map during their daytime and none of it at night; this is equivalent to 25% coverage, whereas the Asians have full PPT all night long, which gives them as many points as both NA servers put together. Even if the NA choose to double team the Asians, they can’t beat them.

That is how night-capping works – not by being more organised or having a bigger population, but by having more people awake when BOTH of the enemy servers are asleep. Telling people to modify their sleeping patterns or quit their jobs is absurd; stop saying it.

interestingly enough, a very similar situation was pretty common for a while. SoS was the unofficial aussie server, and is in the NA bracket. way back in october, TC went against them and GoM. what ended up happening was that TC and SoS essentially nightcapped each other, and slapped GoM around whenever they started poking their heads out. the match ended up being decided by who was able to delay the nightcapping the longest. some of us from NA shifted our schedules around and got to the point where it took SoS a full 8 hours to nightcap us, and we got it all back in about 4. during the day, it was a pretty boring match, during the night it was extremely intense. in fact, for a while, that’s what SoS’s matches were known for. the scores were usually close at the end of the match, but the numbers in the fights were extremely lopsided.

while numbers are a big factor in WvW, there are other factors involved. a small handful of people focusing on a strong defense can delay the nightcapping enough for a strong primetime crew to cover and surpass anything that’s lost. granted, a server with 24/7 coverage will always hold the advantage, but almost every server out there has a coverage gap. it really boils down to how that gap is managed.

i remember before launch that they stated that they don’t want to ever put a gear check into gw2 due to the elitism it tends to create. then again, i remember them saying a lot of things that they’ve gone back on as well. remember the manifesto?

Rizalee.4593:

Hi Anet!

This is a request from a Role-player… and I think its a really simple one…. Please allow us to have un-instanced access to the Home areas in the major cities!!

I don’t think it would take too much effort. All that would be required (For some areas) is to Just remove the Doors blocking the entrance to the area, and let us walk past the “Enter this Instance.” This would allow us to stay in the open world, and have access to some areas that are really great for Role-playing.

For example, the Hospital in Salma District, the Farhar in Hero’s Canton, or the lab equipment in Applied Development Lab…

Please, this would make RPing in the cities so much better, open and inclusive if we didn’t have to go into instances just to visit these areas. It would also have ZERO negative effect on anyone in the game.

i’ll be brutally honest here. the vast majority of MMO companies don’t care about roleplayers whatsoever. oh sure, they’ll say that they do, but they’re flat out lying to our faces. they have to keep up appearances, so that RPers will keep forking over cash, so they give us a tiny handful of nonsensical emotes and then ignored entirely for the rest of the game’s lifespan. and GW2 is the perfect example of that pattern. we’re in a fantasy setting, and given dances from modern pop culture, and a few other basic emotes. chairs don’t work. beds don’t work. the home instance never worked properly, and has been ignored entirely. guild housing, put into the “maybe” pile (by “maybe” i mean, don’t hold your breath)

asking for anything that will benefits roleplayers is a lost cause. at best, they’ll say “we really do care about RPers!” and then….. nothing. they’ll even send a representative to a guild summit to push that lie (and already actually have). it’s all smoke and mirrors. just deception to keep the cash flowing in with zero progress to make good on it.

after a certain point, their words lose all value, and already have a long long time ago. don’t expect them to ever do anything to benefit roleplayers, because no how matter how many time they say they care, their actions (or complete lack thereof) prove that they don’t.

it isn’t just GW2 either. all of the other MMO’s i’ve played in have followed the exact same pattern. at best, we’ll get some insignificant and utterly useless token gesture once a year, and then told to go back under our rocks and shut the hell up. nothing that actually benefits roleplayers will ever be in this game, despite all of the lies they try to feed us.

while it may sound harsh, it really is the truth. it’s not a pessimistic view, it’s a realistic one. and here’s the kicker, this post will most likely be deleted and i’ll get an infraction simply for being honest.

not unless they’re a really bad mesmer. mesmers are incredibly strong underwater. thieves are incredibly weak underwater. so, to answer your question of how to fight a mesmer underwater? get to land, and hope he doesn’t kill you before you can.

Korgov.7645:

Scenario:

• Main hand dagger thief stealths and tries to open with Backstab.
• Opponent anticipates this and activates blocking skill for 2 seconds.
• Thief ignores the opponent’s actions and just spams Backstab skill.
• Opponent blocks one Backstab attack which ends the blocking.
• Thief keeps spamming the Backstab skill.
• Thief is rewarded by successfully landing the Backstab 1/4 seconds later.

If the thief would get Revealed at the blocked attack then the opponent could be able to successfully use block. Not just delay it.

A skillful thief would react on opponents blocking action. Seeing the telegraph the thief would just wait for it to end and only then use Backstab. Or if stealth wears off, restealth and Backstab as the blocking skill would be on cooldown.

Any thoughts?

personally, i think a blocked backstab should give the revealed debuff, or at the very least simply remove stealth. someone would have to be pretty oblivious to get stabbed in the shield they’re using, and have no idea that someone was there doing the stabbing.

dzeRnumbrd.6129:

Lightsbane.9012:

deal with it.
just one more way to balance this class. in place of a single 1200 range damage skill, thief class got something it didn’t deserve or need: torment, you now get to punish people for running away from AND chasing you. despite how you feel, no one really cares unfortunately. everyone has taken 6k backstabs, and now you get the new condition. don’t expect a public outcry outside of the thief community.

Your understanding of the thief profession is very low if you think a “6k” backstab thief is going to waste a precious utility skilll on the Torment venom.

yep, and the kicker is, those “6k” backstab thieves are likely to be even more prevalent now. this patch actually went in the opposite direction of balancing the class, by taking away functional options. clusterbomb can still be spammed at close range, and costs the same amount of initiative, and anyone that thought it was OP when it was shot from the top of a wall, or up onto a wall, is completely delusional. thieves options for doing anything aside from ganking and being blast finisher machines for zergs have dried up.

on a semi-related note, i always find it so amusing that after each arbitrary nerf that misses the mark entirely, there’s always people who are so happy that thieves got any form of a nerf that they trick themselves into thinking that it’s a step toward balance. for the record, this patch is not a step toward balance, and only skews things further in the direction of what everyone has been endlessly complaining about for almost a year. in fact, each nerf has followed that exact same pattern. what are people complaining about? getting ganked/trolled by thieves. what has each patch done? pigeonholed thieves even further into gank/troll builds. what happens after each nerf? some clown shows up and makes a gloating post along the lines of “now you’re weak enough for me to kill. mwuahahahah!!” what happens a week later? “NERF THIEVES!!!!!!” it would be hilarious to watch if it wasn’t so….. well, stupid. they’re not taking away a thief’s ability to kill someone in a matter of seconds with an ambush that they never see coming. they’re taking away a thief’s ability to do anything besides that

personally, i don’t want to run a gank build. i don’t want to be a blast finishing piston in the giant zerg engine. i want to be a useful contributor to the team, as i prefer to focus on playing for the objectives. i want to be able to help in some meaningful way in capturing and defending them. anet, on the other hand, has proven through their actions that that isn’t what they want to happen. they can say otherwise all they want, but words mean nothing. actions dictate truth, and their actions clearly show that they want thieves to be limited to just ganking/trolling or blast finisher spamming. and they further prove it with each and every patch.

thieves in WvW are now stuck with only two options. gank random stragglers who are nowhere near anything even remotely resembling an objective, or spam blast finishers for the massive zergballs.

aside from that….. we got nuthin’.

i’ve been having this same issue as well. i lagged out and crashed 4 times trying to go from the citadel in WvW to the NW tower. it comes and goes in waves, but there’s always at least some measure of it that’s constant, such as taking 2 seconds to go through glowing doorway in any structure in WvW. i stand outside, running into it for a while, get in, then have actually rubberbanded back outside of it several times. i’ve seen yaks walking far far behind the guards that are with them, yet when i target them and fire an arrow, it shoots to the nothing that’s in between the guards.

it’s making the game unplayable. not in a “wow, the quality is so low, i don’t want to play” way, but in a “i log in, move 2 steps, then lag out over and over” way. there are times where i literally am unable to play the game, unless the login and loading screens count.

it certainly isn’t my ISP, because multiple people i’ve spoken to, on a couple servers, are all experiencing the same problem. the yak issue began before the server caps were increased, the rest has all been in the past 2 days.

could it be 3 people in a party, on 3 seperate carts, using ctrl + T to mark you? i’ve done that on defense before, and it’s absurdly simple to pull off.