I can’t help but get the feeling that the locking of all the host servers was a ruse. Something to appease their corporate masters. Like, they wanted to see success from the rewards patch, or else they’d either cut off development resources for WvW, or they’d just cut WvW out entirely, and this was done by the devs to show them and say “See? it worked really well. All of the host servers are completely filled up now!”
Though, this is all just a guess, and kind of a tin foil hat type one at that. So, I dunno. As far as opening BG up? I got nuthin’.
But at this point even I wonder what whatever they are using to calculate population and links has instore for us next time. (puts away tinfoil hat)
https://www.safalniveshak.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/03/monkey_darts.jpg
One thing that should be noted is that boons and condis on people actually contributes to the lag. It’s a lot more signals that need to be sent to every computer in the vicinity, so with a large enough group of people it ends up as a massive spider web of signals that’s constantly being sent out over and over, which tends to strain the servers.
I was tagged up on TC, and we ran into that Anet zerg at the SE tower on the alpine BL. It was like…. seeing Bigfoot, Elvis, Tupac and Jim Morrison riding the Loch Ness monster. I’ll admit, I may have chased you guys down a little farther than I would have chased other groups, but I was in a state of shock. I didn’t think about a screenshot until 10 minutes afterwards. It was a good sight to see, though, and I hope it happens a lot more often.
The issue I had was mainly during slow time for my server that there were enough roamers that you could not get to a camp to take it, a sentry or a ruin etc. before it was taken so you could not keep up your participation unless you found a group to take larger things like towers.
Also repairing doesn’t always work well especially if something is being continually trebbed but the supply may be needed to siege up inner keep or a tower for the eventual invasion. It just leads to bad feelings as folk who are using up supply to repair to keep up participation take supply from those who are trying to defend. It does not lead to folk working together.
Also I went into decay just running around with a zerg finding things to do. The decay before was working just fine. It might be better if when you are done to be able to ‘cash out’ your remaining time into pips depending on what level you have gotten. It would keep folk from hanging around waiting for decay of participation and clotting up maps. Plus it would give you something for the work you put into getting to that level.
Cashing out has a lot of issues. For example, we would somehow need to make cashing out be exactly as good as the rewards you would get if you were still playing. If it does not give as good of rewards no one would do it and still afk, and if we make it too good then everyone would just constantly cash out. It is impossible to predict all the rewards someone would be expected to earn because we cannot predict if a map will become outnumbered or if your world moves placements. We also wouldn’t want people to constantly cash out so then we would need to accurately lock them out of WvW for a set period of time. The period of time would probably need to be longer than just the amount of time it would take to decay because otherwise it could still be more ideal to play a little, cash out go back, repeat. We have considered it, we just don’t believe it is a viable option.
Have it cash out at the current rate of the map you’re currently on. So if you’re on an outnumbered map, jackpot. But you’d only need to be there for a couple seconds, rather than standing there for 15 minutes. To prevent abuse, put a cooldown on participation (not on WvW itself). If you had 10 minutes left of participation when you cashed out, then you go for 10 minutes without gaining any participation the next time you hop into WvW. Most people tend to take some time when they first log into a map to get themselves situated, so that wouldn’t really punish legit players. It would just prevent cashing out then hopping right back in to abuse the system.
Doesn’t matter Anet doesn’t update anything in wvw anyways good suggestions or otherwise so who cares. Not to mention I have no idea why wvwers would object to an update to auto loot that would result in getting more loot. Especially when all wvwers complained about for years was no loot/rewards…. but whatever lol.
This is one of those suggestions, where if Anet just changed it so you got loot no matter what every wvw would say, “we like this” or “good job Anet more loot” but because I’m suggesting it, it’s an absolutely horrible idea, for some reason which nobody can figure out.
I mean at best it’s more loot, at worst it’s irrelevant, but you know keep up the good fight.
People object because it encourages people to lay dead on the ground instead of releasing and running back to the fight.
right….. so loot auto going into your inventory = you are encouraged to stay dead? Im not seeing the connection. Seems completely unrelated to me.
I can’t recall ever playing a game where, when you died (essentially when you failed in some way), you still automatically were given every bit of the loot you would have acquired if you stayed alive, contributed to the fight, got ressed by a comrade, or used other mechanics (like WP) to rejoin the battle. Maybe I’m misunderstanding, but shouldn’t death have a death penalty of some sort? It’s modest enough, with the mechanics in place, but should it be zero?
Yes, I do believe that such functionality would discourage active play. “I’m dead. I’ll just lie here and gather all my goodies while I go order a pizza. Doesn’t cost me a thing to be inactive — I’ll still get 100% of the loot either way.” Does that even make sense? Or am I misunderstanding the suggestion?
Gaile, If you played as much WvW as I have, you would know how many times I’ve missed out on rare items (the ones that drop in the form of a chest), as a blob instantly comes in and k.o.‘s me and our team literally as the last bit of health from a champion is killed, and LITERALLY 1 second later after I’ve died, my loot bag/s (and occasionally) rare item chest drop by my corpse. How is this fair? I miss out on my loot because we get killed, and the boss just so happened to die literally 1 second later?
I support the original poster 100%.
You don’t seem to play much either if that is your tactic. You should have scouts posted and prepare to engage or duck out of the lord room, if an enemy zerg arrives. People who sit at lord when an enemy zerg ass jams them don’t deserve said loot.
blameshifting
noun
the act of transferring responsibility for an error or problem to another; also written blame shiftingExamples
cheap shots and blameshiftingDictionary.com’s 21st Century Lexicon
Copyright © 2003-2014 Dictionary.com, LLCSo you’re saying you deserve loot even though you sat at lord whilst the enemy came in the and destroyed you? You’re the kind of people that so many organised WvWers get kittened off at.
Yup. A couple of weeks ago, I was tagged up and attacking SM. When inner went down, I saw the enemy zerg move out of a different gate to deal with the 3rd server. When we got into the lord’s room, my exact words were “Stay alert. They’re close. Don’t tunnel vision on the keep lord.” I moved to a hallway and said “Here.” 5 people moved with me. 50 exploded when the other zerg flanked the crap out of them, because they were still standing around the keep lord auto casting.
As a commander, this types of thing is extremely frustrating, because it’s entirely unnecessary. If you kill the players, THEN kill the lord, you get MORE loot. If you tunnel vision on the lord, you ARE loot.
As a thief, though, I’ve exploited this behavior to the fullest, designing entire builds around being able to get 10 people to completely break off of a zerg fight, turn their back fully to our zerg, and try chasing me. All due to the thought that they might be able to catch me and get that 1 loot bag. Usually, they can’t, which makes it all the more hilarious when the 25+people they completely forgot about continues to push forward and runs them the hell over.
1. Hell yes. I fully support this suggestion.
2. Sounds good on paper, but….. I’d be concerned that it would end up bugged, and the queues would end up clogged with copies of “ghost” players, while only having about 20 people on the map. There was a similar bug a few years back, so there’s already a precedent for this sort of thing happening. And, with WvW, if it can break it will, and who knows when, or if, it would end up getting fixed.
Probably would’ve got that loot if you were in position, if you were doing your job, if you were geared in offensive stats other than nomads so that you can actually have a chance to defeat your enemies.
I think the current system is fine. You die you don’t get your loot or, waypoint and potentially get your loot via allies having killed what you tagged.
It’s not like everyone and their mum’s brown dog is suddenly going to whack on full PVT or nomads in zergs just for a few loot bags.
Think about it – you die. Who what when where why how even is able to loot for you when you’re dead? Certainly not you. You’re dead. Wouldn’t make sense otherwise.
If you’re in WvW for loot you’re in the wrong place my friend – PvE is that way.
Am I missing something? Why is everyone so confused about the topic of my post? I’m not debating the merits of death and getting no loot. The fact is you get loot when you die and all I’m suggesting is that it goes into your inventory instead of on the ground…
Please everyone read the posts above for clarification
No, you don’t get loot when you die. Bags pop up. There’s a difference. If you waypoint and run back, you can collect those bags. If you lay there like a lump, you lose out on those bags. If you respawn and run back, you can collect your bags and resume assisting with the situation. If you lay there like a lump, you are being the literal definition of dead weight, and don’t deserve any rewards for that. Because guess what? Even though you may have tagged those players while you were alive, you didn’t kill them. While you were laying there dead, your servermates are the ones who killed them. What you’re asking for isn’t “streamlining the system”. What you’re asking for is to be rewarded for parasitic behavior. No. Just…. no. You didn’t earn those bags when you were laying there dead. You’re not entitled to them just because you tagged some players. You don’t deserve to automatically get them. Waypoint and run back, and help with the situation. Then pick up your 3 spikes and the 1-2 blue/green junk that dropped.
If you’re playing an ele, run celestial gear. If you’re playing a necro or mesmer, run dire gear with runes of the undead. You shouldn’t be a glass cannon in WvW. Ever. Glass cannons are free kills. Start with defense, then add more offense in as you get comfortable. Build around your personal skill level, don’t blindly adhere to whatever’s posted on metabattle. Practice your positioning, and you’ll die a whole lot less. However, when you do die, don’t lay there like a lump. Respawn and run back. No. Don’t run back to the forums. Run back to the fight in the game.
The answer is technically yes as long as you way point instantly. They changed the mechanics of loot with auto loot which didn’t exist before hot, why not update this side of it as well and have it affect all game modes? Since you do get loot “when you die” as long as you way point up instantly any mobs that you tagged when you were alive, that your allies then killed that drop loot; all of that loot goes directly into your inventory from across the map as long as you raise up instantly.
technically you even get loot when “you die” if others kill mobs you tagged and you don’t raise up the loot just lands at your feet and you can run back and get it, so yes “you do get loot when you die” in both pve and wvw as long as you have allies.
all of this is gimicky and a chore – run back and get your bags/quick raise up quick to get your loot, why not simplify it?
to address your point the only time you “dont get loot” for dying is if you tag nothing and then die, or if you tag enemies then die and your allies fail to kill what you tagged.
So…. as long as you waypoint when you die, and don’t lay there dead, you get your loot? Which is exactly the same as it is in WvW. At this point, you’re really coming off as complaining just for the sake of complaining. You don’t get loot for laying dead on the ground. Not in PvE nor in WvW. Suck it up and respawn.
i got hero triump armor and boots and i basicly finished with grinding anything else,its like 2000 hours killed for single armor skin and wasted gold on boosters.
this armor is worst thing that could happen to casual game. 3000 hours for new guy to get skin,wow.
You…. do know that there’s a reward track, where you can pick the piece of triumphant armor you want, and unlock the skin that way, called the Triumphant Armor Reward Track", right?
To be honest, I would much rather see 5% diminishing returns against players instead. Make each stack of a condition 5% less effective than the previous stack. So, 100%, 95%, 90%, etc. That would give it a soft cap of 20 stacks, and (working off the math of 100 damage per stack) rather than those 20 stacks doing 2k per tick, they would do 1050 per tick.
Either that, or a flat 50% nerf of condi effectiveness against players.
Mouse over the commander’s name in the squad UI.
There’s no need for a “Laziness Mastery”.
Shift + left click
I tried AA. The rampant botting pretty much killed any chance that game had. The labor points, grinding and P2W elements just sort of lit the corpse on fire. And nerfing the cannons on the ships, resulting in the fishing boats being the dominant PvP ship just sorta desecrated on the ashes.
The whole “Elven girls wear thongs” part was nice, though…..
I never played DAoC, but it’s been mentioned countless times on these forums. From what I’ve been able to gather, the top server gained access to a dungeon that was the best farming spot for top tier mats. That’s what gave the other two servers the incentive to team up and target the top server. Something like that, that gave access to ascended mats, would help on multiple fronts. It would be the check and balance that’s been needed since launch, and would also bring a steady influx of new players in as well. It doesn’t need to necessarily be identical. Even if it’s just a merchant that sells ascended gear for half the normal prices, that’s pretty good incentive. Or, even, the top server could get a 50% discount from the skirmish vendor. I’d say to add a few more hoops to jump through for that, though.
Something like, top score in the skirmish, holds bloodlust on their home BL, and has their garrison t3 and holds SM to get the discount/special vendor. Just kinda spitballing jumping off points here, though.
(edited by Phantom.8130)
So….. Let me get this straight…..
You’re essentially running a PvE build, and not moving with the tag, laying there dead, and complaining about missing out on 3 spikes and blue shoulderpads?
If you’re running a full glass cannon build, you’re doing it wrong, even as a backline DPS.
If you’re not moving with the tag, and keeping them in front of you at all times, you’re doing it wrong. The tag is your meatshield, stay behind it.
If you’re not using your dodges, you’re doing it wrong. It prevents damage spikes.
If you’re running up to the enemy group, then stopping and stationary casting, you’re doing it wrong. Stay mobile and behind the tag. Dodge through their bombs, don’t stand there like a lump and catch them in the face.
If you do happen to go down but just lay there dead, you’re doing it wrong. You can’t be rezzed in combat. Respawn and run back.
If you’re playing a build that tags lots of targets, but are complaining that you’re missing out on the 3 spikes and green shoulderpads you’re not getting when you’re running a PvE build, positioning yourself poorly, not dodging, getting killed and then just laying there, you’re doing it wrong. Run a WvW build, improve your positioning, make good use of your dodge rolls and respawn the instant you go down.
This one is on you. You don’t get rewarded for playing poorly, and then pretending that you’re being oppressed. You’re not. You’re playing poorly. You’re not a victim of prejudice. You’re just not getting rewarded for failure. And you’ve failed on numerous fronts here. Furthermore, you’re playing a tagging build, which means you get tons of loot already. That 5 silver (at MOST) that you lose out on when you’re laying there on the ground isn’t going to make or break you. Respawning isn’t a work around. It’s the intended outcome. Stop complaining, respawn and run back, or make the adjustments you need to in order to stop being an easy kill in the first place. This really isn’t that hard.
Long term goals are great!
However they have to remain achievable.
Just….. gonna put this out here. Originally, for the titles, someone would have to play 24/7 for around 8 years straight to get the yak slapper title. 56 years to get the title for attacking SM. Someone broke down the math a couple years back, which was pretty eye opening. They eventually changed the requirements. But… yeah. That’s… how long term WvW rewards roll.
By comparison, 14 weeks doesn’t seem too bad now, huh?
I’m pretty sure a long while back, they increased the range of the volatility, because the matchups were stagnant and tiers were pretty much deadlocked in place. If they turned that back down, the matchups should go back to being at least somewhat even.
What’s a….. pip kitten?
One that was owned by Gladys Knight.
Anet needs to make a dead zone in every BLs where you can’t get any pips, so the afk pip kitten can’t sit at spawn and take up valuable spots for active players trying to get into a BL. Force of em out the spawn area where they can get hit by enemy/killed players. Make the safe area at spawn a DEAD pip zone and have the pip active once you’re past the legendary guards or something.
I completely agree, and would take it one step further. Don’t let those standing in spawn count when determining Outnumbered. Let them count against the queue, so that 80 people can’t stand in spawn and then rush out to add to the 80 people already out there.
I would also suggest a rework of the Outnumbered system as a whole, to provide stat bonuses rather than pips and/or the current bonuses. The excuse for not changing it in the past, that they didn’t want people chasing anyone off the map so that the few who were there could keep the Outnumbered bonus, has been completely tossed out the window. Adding the current level of a greed-based incentive to Outnumbered has caused this reaction to already begin to happen. However, a nuanced stat bonus instead would give Outnumbered servers an actual fighting chance. Rather than being spawn camped by overwhelming numbers.
(edited by Phantom.8130)
This thread brings back memories of threads that popped up all over the place during the first 6 months after launch, which basically broke down to “This isn’t what I’m already familiar with, change it to be like my previous MMO” It’s something that happens to all MMOs, which is why most of them are pretty much carbon copies of each other with different artwork.
There’s a lot of very self absorbed people who play MMOs, and the MMOs themselves steer into that skid. Everything in the games are designed around fluffing up the players’ ego. “You’re the hero. You’re desired and loved by everyone. You’re capable of doing anything. You’re The Chosen One!” It’s a marketing strategy, but it does have a psychological impact. The sheer repetition of these baseless accolades result in people beginning to believe it. That the entire world revolves around them. Simply put, it’s subtle brainwashing. It’s the same concept as having a hoard of “Yes Men” around you constantly.
RP and PvP tends to be different. Everything is the result if your actual actions. If you’re trying to roleplay, say, a doctor, yet know nothing about even basic first aid, no one’s going to take you seriously. If you consistently lose every PvP match, your reputation won’t be that of unstoppable juggernaut. It’s a reality check.
WvW is large scale PvP, and like with both RP and PvP results are what matter, not hype. For the past 5 years, WvW players have been earning a reward. Until recently, that reward never came. Now that it has, and in my opinion it’s been delivered pretty well, those from the other end of the spectrum have shifted in to WvW to get a piece of the pie.
Now, I love the influx of new players. It’s something WvW’s been desperately needing for years, ever since previous sources of new players were cut off. I’ll run with you, I’ll teach you, I’ll lead you, even when you tunnel vision onto an NPC and leave the rest of your group high and dry. And yes, that’s happened numerous times in just the past week alone.
However, you had equal opportunity to earn the same reward, during the entire past 5 years. You chose to focus on other aspects, which provided far greater rewards and still do. I don’t begrudge you for your choice. It was your choice to make, and you made it.
Others chose to focus their time and energy into WvW. It certainly isn’t fair to begrudge others for their choice.
Let’s look at the facts here. Ascended gear is easier to get in PvE. Legendary gear is easier to get in PvE. PvE has more options to acquire ascended gear. So, as far as the actual stats are concerned, PvE still holds the dominant edge in acquisition. Furthermore, gold itself is much easier to come by in PvE. PvE has far few expenses than WvW. So PvE still holds the dominant edge financially as well.
So what does WvW actually get that PvE doesn’t? A single backpack skin. One lone appearance. It’s too much for some players that those who made different choices than them get one singular item that gives no functional advantage. All the while ignoring the numerous unique items they get. It certainly isn’t all PvE players who exhibit this behavior, but it’s glaringly apparent in this thread, and I’ve already explained why.
If you do the job, you get paid. If you do the job long enough, you get raises, you get bonuses, you get promotions. Certain people at entry level positions are demanding to be paid as much chairmen of the board. PvE is where they hype you up and tell you the world revolves around you. RP, PvP, and WvW is where you get the reality checks that let you know that it doesn’t.
Bottom line, if you want more pips, go earn them like everyone else did, don’t “whine to win” and expect much sympathy from those who were neglected while you were catered to. The ONLY changes that need to be made to the current system is to remove the incentive for afking in spawn to collect pips as participation ticks down. (Something that never happened before the sudden influx of players.) And perhaps additional pips for transferring to lower tier servers, to destack the overstacked servers in tier 1, until the 3 week loyalty bonus kicks in. To do anything else is a step backwards after a very good, and desperately needed, step forward, and will leave a bad taste in the mouths of those who have carried the game mode thus far.
How about + 1 Pip for every rank you transfer down for 1 week per rank, but an account can only get that bonus once per year?
use it when they don’t have retal up
That is the issue. There are many, many sources of retaliation. It is literally crapped out.
On the other hand, they’re more likely to run out of stability or have it removed and not as easily reapplied.
Stunning people with Basilisk also has more synergy with your shortbow 4 and the fact you’re already taking the poison venom. You and your friends can literally stunlock people into oblivion.
Fair enough. Though on the s/p build, I’ve been using Impact strike as extra CC and a good closing combo straight into a fast stomp. It can be a little iffy in the midst of things, though.
Retaliation. Dagger Storm. Many hits over a short duration. Not good.
Basilisk Venom is better in 98% of cases.
It’s a timing issue. Watch their buffs, use it when they don’t have retal up, break it halfway through, move back to your group to refresh. For the second build, if they waste their refresh to retal spike you, good. Disrupting their refresh was your main goal. They killed 1 thief, but haven’t cleansed, haven’t healed, haven’t rebuffed, and have to try to deal with the rest of your group. You win that equation.
Thief has singletarget dps and cleave with staff. Doesn’t need stab to gank people on the sides. Doesn’t need to be in squad.
Ok, I’ll bite here.
Basic Shotgun Thief: http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vZAQFAVlsMhSnY5TwoJQ/ELUF1c139hv3F8BlQXPFAHAA-T1BDABep87PdAAcBAMUJI97PM9DAoT1fCAgAYoDdoDdoDtbezbezbezSBAz0I-w
How it works: Stay on the tag, spam clusterbombs (blast finishers). Once you’re in melee range, steal to boonrip/share, then pop spider venom, and spam clusterbombs. Use your dodges to mitigate your initiative use, however you can get off 8 clusterbombs in a row before you’re out. When you’re out, blinding powder for another blast finisher, and bounce your auto attack off the targets. When they’re in a compact group, you can pop dagger storm, or when you just want to act as a distraction. Also use your blinding powder on the tag when they’re being pinsniped. Use Infiltrator’s Arrow to get back to the tag if you get out of position.
Variation: weaponswap to d/d. Now you’re a Distraction Thief. Target someone in the middle of their group. Steal to boonrip. Death Blossom, Death Blossom, Dodge, Death Blossom, Dodge back to your group, shadowstep back into the middle, Dagger Storm as pushing out their back ranks. Break Dagger Storm halfway through with another dodge, because you will be getting targetted and you will have their back line’s full attention. Shadowstep back to your group. Rinse and repeat.
——————————————————
Front Line Control Thief: http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vZAQNAsaVnsMBlOhlPBGmC0PhFqiqLBCgDwLE+gSYO77+yH-TFCDQBkUJI92fAQ6DEmyPAcKAok6PT7IAIgHAQAAEgb2ml5MDM0hO0hO0h2Nv5Nv5NvZpAYTZE-w
How to Play: Use your shortbow initially, in the same manner as the shotgun build, just to build up stacks. Once you’re full, switch to your melee weapons. infiltrator’s strike is your equivalent of Guardian’s Leap of Faith. Black Powder, then Pistol Whip. Cleave while moving, popping off Black Powder on occasion. When they refresh, steal in and pop Dagger Storm, but be ready to dodge back quickly. Use Blinding Powder to break target, and Bandit’s Defense when getting pushed. Use Black Powder on their downs.
Guys. The player is DEAF. They can’t hear what you’re saying in TS. TS will do NOTHING for them. Stop behaving like brainwashed cultists.
The point of the new system was to give long overdue rewards to WvW players who have been neglected for 5 years. It also brings in an influx of new players that was cut off when WvW map completion was dropped as part of the requirement for legendaries, and cut off one step further when megaservers were put in. In both aspects, the new system is successful. I’m generally highly critical of Anet, but they did a kitten good job with this system.
If I want dungeon gear, I have to run dungeons. If I want fractal gear, I have to run fractals. If I want raid gear, I have to run raids. If you want WvW rewards, you have to play WvW. If you want rewards for playing in EotM, then you’ll need to ask Anet for EotM specific rewards. Just like WvW players had to ask for WvW specific rewards. We waited for 5 years to get them, and they shouldn’t turn around and slap the WvW playerbase in the face by giving them to people who aren’t playing actual WvW.
A commander is choosing to tag up. In their squad, it’s their rules. If the commander wants their squad in voice, that’s perfectly fine. You have a choice to join or not.
Not all voice comms are the same. Some are toxic, some aren’t. Please stop painting everyone with the same brush.
Play the way you want. Don’t join voice. But don’t be upset if that choice has consequences.
If you think voice doesn’t matter, then tag up and textmand. Set your own squad rules. That’s your choice, too.
If the commander wants their squad in TS, I have no choice. See the flaw in your logic? I have no choice. I cannot join, and that’s what I want, and their is no reason why I shouldn’t be allowed in to a non-full squad. I can’t play the I want. I am upset. Their rude choices made bad consequences for me and everyone else in TC that day. I can’t tag up – I don’t have 300 gold lying around. It’s not my choice. I don’t have it. I don’t want to lead a squad anyway. So now what? I go off to the corner to play some other mode or by myself? Well, how great for me and everyone else similarly situated.
So you should be allowed to play the way you want but the commander shouldn’t be allowed to play the way he wants? That sounds pretty kittening selfish.
That’s always seemed like a particularly stupid argument when I hear it trotted out.
“I want everyone around me to play my way” and “I want to play my own way” are not the same degree of “want”.I want to play the game the way it was designed and intended to be played by those who purchased the game. I don’t want to be excluded from advertised content because some elitist joker decides he wants to ban people prejudicially (especially when the squad is not full). I don’t want anyone to play my way. I want to play the game in my own way. I want you to play the game in your own way. But I want to able to play what you play, especially when there is zero sum gain/no negative effect if I am in a not-full squad w/o TS or I am running solo beside it w/o TS – I do the same thing either way but get no protections, which makes me die, which ends the heals, which hurts the zerg, which fails the server goal. Makes no sense.
Also, the commander is the one who wants everyone around him to “play his own way (while he plays his own way as well).” I’m afraid its the same degree of want (coercion maybe better?), and its one-sided from the commander. As far as I’m concerned, the commander can play any way he wants, as long as it doesn’t infringe on my right to play too. And if it does, which apparently Anet condones, I will keep calling this rude and demeaning behavior out each time I am subjected to it because its bad form without regard for the feelings of others.
As I’ve said, if you’re on TC, just join one of my squads when I’m tagged up. Most guilds encourage TS, very few actually demand it. I don’t do either. I prefer to type short one word commands, so as long as someone knows how to follow a tag and play their class, they’ll do fine.
If you’re on TC, just join one of my squads when I’m tagged up.
You seem to be fixating on a player you rarely see. A thief who specs for front line and plays for it. What I often see is thieves complaining about no stab, but being down 600 range in front of the commander. Funny Hong is this happens when they are in a decent party a comp too. They whine how glass they need to go to generate downs and so they become downed every fight and blame group comp. Most competent thieves I know have moved to other classes when they join a group more than 5.
So good on our for being a single competent thief amongst the 20 on map wasting a queue slot
You rarely see them because most people are slaves to meta, and can only think in terms of GREN, and that thieves are only good for roaming/ganking/pick teams. So people end up pigeon holed due to misinformation being spread. If people actually bothered to learn what the classes outside of GREN were capable of, and promoted accurate information, you’d see a change in approach. But as long as people come into the map and say ’I’m on a thief/ranger, what should I be running?" and they get told full zerk, cause you’re a roaming class", that’s all that you’ll see. And for the record, not even pick thieves should be running zerk gear. They should be running a mix of Cav and Valk so that they don’t melt in all the AoE that’s getting tossed around.
It’s hard enough to get most people to change a build, good luck teaching a random pug who doesn’t even solicit for advice. But I do agree that there are solutions outside the meta, I run 2 of my 3 wvw ele builds completely outside of meta.
Perhaps your personal issue is being with commanders/lieutenants who are not familiar with you. Your solution would be to ask for lieutenant so other lieutenants won’t move you personally. I often see randoms getting it to sort parties for the commander and often they fall into the ignorant self absorbed mentality who only know how to repeat what they hear.
I know on Maguuma there is a small percentage rate of thieves and rangers who generally are accepted by the veterans since they live and contribute,. But these rarely are in the raid they stick to themselves.
The other day, I spent 20 minutes just tinkering around on one of the build editor site, and ended up with zerg viable builds for both rangers and engis, even though I’ve never played either class. This isn’t some personal gripe. This is 50% of the classes being used as cannon fodder because people don’t bother to learn how they work. And then looking down on everyone who plays those classes. So rather than actually trying to help them, they end up driving them off. WvW needs all of the players it can get. The patch was a nice boost, but it’s mostly temporary. The last thing we need are people actively murdering the playerbase because they only understand how half the classes in the game work.
You should join a guild…be a good commander in the current meta to your guild of atleast 50 ppl. Then convince them of your build ideas and the demonstrate in wvw and gvg those changes = success. Word hets out congrats you have forever change wvw and educated and enlightened at the same time. Till then yer a noWxp good idea fairy. Dont even run the classes? Cmon man.
Or, I can keep doing what I’m doing, and be able to train hundreds, if not thousands, of people, including dozens of commanders on my server. Problems tend to arise when new commanders come in, have no clue what the lay of the land is, declare they know best, fail miserably, and destroy what’s been built. In the month and a half that I’ve been back in the game since a 10 month hiatus, I’ve been making good strides to undo the damage that was done by people who thought they knew a lot more than they actually did.
You seem to be fixating on a player you rarely see. A thief who specs for front line and plays for it. What I often see is thieves complaining about no stab, but being down 600 range in front of the commander. Funny Hong is this happens when they are in a decent party a comp too. They whine how glass they need to go to generate downs and so they become downed every fight and blame group comp. Most competent thieves I know have moved to other classes when they join a group more than 5.
So good on our for being a single competent thief amongst the 20 on map wasting a queue slot
You rarely see them because most people are slaves to meta, and can only think in terms of GREN, and that thieves are only good for roaming/ganking/pick teams. So people end up pigeon holed due to misinformation being spread. If people actually bothered to learn what the classes outside of GREN were capable of, and promoted accurate information, you’d see a change in approach. But as long as people come into the map and say ’I’m on a thief/ranger, what should I be running?" and they get told full zerk, cause you’re a roaming class", that’s all that you’ll see. And for the record, not even pick thieves should be running zerk gear. They should be running a mix of Cav and Valk so that they don’t melt in all the AoE that’s getting tossed around.
It’s hard enough to get most people to change a build, good luck teaching a random pug who doesn’t even solicit for advice. But I do agree that there are solutions outside the meta, I run 2 of my 3 wvw ele builds completely outside of meta.
Perhaps your personal issue is being with commanders/lieutenants who are not familiar with you. Your solution would be to ask for lieutenant so other lieutenants won’t move you personally. I often see randoms getting it to sort parties for the commander and often they fall into the ignorant self absorbed mentality who only know how to repeat what they hear.
I know on Maguuma there is a small percentage rate of thieves and rangers who generally are accepted by the veterans since they live and contribute,. But these rarely are in the raid they stick to themselves.
The other day, I spent 20 minutes just tinkering around on one of the build editor site, and ended up with zerg viable builds for both rangers and engis, even though I’ve never played either class. This isn’t some personal gripe. This is 50% of the classes being used as cannon fodder because people don’t bother to learn how they work. And then looking down on everyone who plays those classes. So rather than actually trying to help them, they end up driving them off. WvW needs all of the players it can get. The patch was a nice boost, but it’s mostly temporary. The last thing we need are people actively murdering the playerbase because they only understand how half the classes in the game work.
You seem to be fixating on a player you rarely see. A thief who specs for front line and plays for it. What I often see is thieves complaining about no stab, but being down 600 range in front of the commander. Funny Hong is this happens when they are in a decent party a comp too. They whine how glass they need to go to generate downs and so they become downed every fight and blame group comp. Most competent thieves I know have moved to other classes when they join a group more than 5.
So good on our for being a single competent thief amongst the 20 on map wasting a queue slot
You rarely see them because most people are slaves to meta, and can only think in terms of GREN, and that thieves are only good for roaming/ganking/pick teams. So people end up pigeon holed due to misinformation being spread. If people actually bothered to learn what the classes outside of GREN were capable of, and promoted accurate information, you’d see a change in approach. But as long as people come into the map and say ’I’m on a thief/ranger, what should I be running?" and they get told full zerk, cause you’re a roaming class", that’s all that you’ll see. And for the record, not even pick thieves should be running zerk gear. They should be running a mix of Cav and Valk so that they don’t melt in all the AoE that’s getting tossed around.
As a guildmander ill experiment, take my guoldies performance into consideration have a chat ect. As a chatmander there isnt time to iinvestigate the feasabilitybof someones build. Why would they tell youbthe truth anyway. Point being if you want to be in a squad and run your rngr/teef then join a guild that tags. That way you can get some individual attention maybe change the meta? But to cry and limit cmdr options or complain when tags already havr so many decisions to make its unrealistic. As a chatmander Ill accept anyone and move ppl around and i am unlikely to put a bunch of rangers and thieves i nto their own group unless they are disproportionate, which has happened. I dont put more than one of either thief or ranger into a group unless I have to. If Im guildmanding Rangers are included on a case by case basis but noone in the guild will ever complain if they end up in the pick group cuz they arent noobs.
I’ve been type commanding since October 2012. It really isn’t too difficult to stick at least one guardian in every party, 2 in the front line parties. Furthermore, you have to deal with the situation before it ever gets to that point. I’m constantly teaching. I’ve had numerous people ask me what set up I’m using, and I explain it in detail in squad chat. I’m also working with a few other commanders to hold weekly public training events, where we cover everything from map strategy, to builds, to proper siege placement. We had about 20-30 people show up last week, and that was just covering the very basics of WvW. It’s a gradual process, that will pays off tremendously in the long run. There’s always going to be new players coming into WvW, so it’s best to provide the information they need to succeed, rather than sticking them into positions where they can’t.
I love these "I’m a great wvw player so why oh why do I get kicked for playing a roaming class (ranger, thief, engi, mesmer). You are playing a roaming class. Go ROAM! If you really wanted to zerg, you would play a zerg class. Good commanders will allow crappy guardians into squad and kick amazing rangers, WHICH SHOULD TELL YOU SOMETHING!!!
Case. In. Point.
You seem to be fixating on a player you rarely see. A thief who specs for front line and plays for it. What I often see is thieves complaining about no stab, but being down 600 range in front of the commander. Funny Hong is this happens when they are in a decent party a comp too. They whine how glass they need to go to generate downs and so they become downed every fight and blame group comp. Most competent thieves I know have moved to other classes when they join a group more than 5.
So good on our for being a single competent thief amongst the 20 on map wasting a queue slot
You rarely see them because most people are slaves to meta, and can only think in terms of GREN, and that thieves are only good for roaming/ganking/pick teams. So people end up pigeon holed due to misinformation being spread. If people actually bothered to learn what the classes outside of GREN were capable of, and promoted accurate information, you’d see a change in approach. But as long as people come into the map and say ’I’m on a thief/ranger, what should I be running?" and they get told full zerk, cause you’re a roaming class", that’s all that you’ll see. And for the record, not even pick thieves should be running zerk gear. They should be running a mix of Cav and Valk so that they don’t melt in all the AoE that’s getting tossed around.
As a thief, I’ve only actually seen one group actively kicking thieves and rangers when the squad’s full. However, I’ve seen countless commanders stick all of the thieves and rangers into a “reject” party, give them zero stability, then let confirmation bias kick in when those thieves and rangers get CCed and bombed…. due to the lack of stability. Most people, in general, have no clue what thieves actually bring to a zerg. Anything that isn’t blatantly obvious and practically slapping them in the face goes completely unnoticed. I can put out 9 blast finishers in a row. I can get an entire backline to spread out and waste their bomb, and a few will burn some dodges too. I also do a ton of CC/interupts. I also do boonstripping/sharing every 20 seconds. I stick on the tag like glue, and I’m either the one rezzing the commander or going down after them. The only times I go down before the commander is when they stick me into said “reject” party, and I get CCed then bombed because 0 stability, and all of my other stun breaks are on cooldown.
The problem is, putting thieves/etc in stab parties is pointless because you should never be where that stab party is. We dont have infinite range on skills.
Some commanders dont give a kitten about the backline and will let them get bombed and then whine about it, true. Thats when you leave the squad and make your own. Many commanders will assume that if you join WvW as a glass cannon ganker, you can avoid a bomb and CC while flowing with the zerg frontline. You made the choice to bring a thief.
If you’re a slave to “meta”, then you’ll only see theives as d/d zerk gank thieves that only belong in a pick team. But that shows an ignorance of the class itself. A shortbow thief in dire gear has over 3k armor and 20k HP, that spams blast finishers and does a ton of condi damage. That’s not a pick thief by any means, and SHOULD be running right along side the commander to ensure the tag is healed and buffed constantly. I command on a s/p control thief with almost 3300 Armor and 28k HP. My job isn’t to do damage, it’s to control the fight. Greatsword guardians have Leap of Faith, I have Infiltrator’s strike. Theirs does blindness, mine immobilizes. Guardians get Whirling Wrath, I have Pistol Whip. Theirs is a whirl finisher, mine is a stun. They get Symbol of Wrath, I get Black Powder. Theirs gives retaliation, mine does blindness. They get Binding Blade, I get Headshot. Theirs is a pull, mine is a daze. And when they start trying to pinsnipe, blinding powder. Now you have to find me again. Oh, you found me? Hide in Shadows, now I’ve cleansed, healed and you have to find me again. Oh, you pulled me? Shadowstep back to my group, no you didn’t. And when you do manage to get a bead on me, Bandit’s defense. From there, Reflexive strike, knockdown. Impact Strike Combo, daze, launch, damage/finisher. If I get pushed back, I steal to get back to the front of my group, which also dazes. and if you have a sloppy group, I swap out Impat Strike for Dagger storm, dash into your back lines, pop it and watch all of your casters lose their frickin’ minds burning cooldowns and dodges because they’re terrified of a thief. And if I really want to screw with your group, I switch to d/d and just death blossom and dash around in your back lines, so that they all focus on me instead of the zerg that’s now running them over. If a commanders puts me in a party with stability, I help control the fight. If they don’t, then I lose respect for them. It’s a slap in the face for someone to try to use me as cannon fodder, so I won’t even bother trying to rez them. They made their choices, they can deal with the consequences and respawn.
As a thief, I’ve only actually seen one group actively kicking thieves and rangers when the squad’s full. However, I’ve seen countless commanders stick all of the thieves and rangers into a “reject” party, give them zero stability, then let confirmation bias kick in when those thieves and rangers get CCed and bombed…. due to the lack of stability. Most people, in general, have no clue what thieves actually bring to a zerg. Anything that isn’t blatantly obvious and practically slapping them in the face goes completely unnoticed. I can put out 9 blast finishers in a row. I can get an entire backline to spread out and waste their bomb, and a few will burn some dodges too. I also do a ton of CC/interupts. I also do boonstripping/sharing every 20 seconds. I stick on the tag like glue, and I’m either the one rezzing the commander or going down after them. The only times I go down before the commander is when they stick me into said “reject” party, and I get CCed then bombed because 0 stability, and all of my other stun breaks are on cooldown.
However, this dynamic isn’t new. People are slaves to “meta”. Currently, it’s GREN, and before that it was GWEN. Even mesmers get the shaft, which makes hit hilarious when commanders ask “why don’t we have any veils??” No timewarp, no null field, no feeback bubbles, no portals. Engi’s? Yep, they’re part of the “reject” party too. They’re not part of the monosyllabic acronym, so they gotta go. Some people are only capable of one dimensional thought. Some classes require multidimensional thinking.
Concerning megaservers, first consider the backlash that happened with linking. The smaller servers were rather unhappy about losing their identity. A lot of guilds on those servers either faded away or left the game entirely. Now, extrapolate that result over all of WvW, and what you have is a deathblow to WvW. Sure, the mercenary guilds don’t mind, since they hopped from server to server anyway, and none of those servers actually had any importance to them since they were never on any server long enough to actually build it up. (Superstacking then leaving is completely different. Don’t fool yourself) But the mercenary guilds aren’t what keeps WvW afloat. If anything, they’re one of the problems that’s been plaguing WvW since just after launch when they opened all of the servers up with free transfers because they didn’t have their hosting system in place yet. They come in, recruit as hard as they can, then leave. A locust swarm, so to speak, leaving scorched earth in their wake.
But guess what? If you get rid of servers, you get rid of that recruitment pool. The playerbase shrinks, and guilds won’t be able to recruit anyone. Then they start cannibalizing each other, until they eventually die off entirely. Anyone who tells you otherwise is lying to your face. Anyone who’s even paid remote casual attention to WvW over the past few years has seen that exact pattern play out countless times.
So no, megaservers wouldn’t fix anything. It would be a temporary bandaid solution that would create MUCH bigger problems, and severely speed up the death of WvW entirely.
(edited by Phantom.8130)
Simple question. How does everyone feel about the existence of WvW Roaming guilds?
I think they are entertaining and it’s surprising how much damage they can do. So many small guilds will camp an area (whether it be a keep or spawn) and their presence just obliterates. They essentially can cut off life support from a main zerg by killing all reinforcements.
Do you think it’s worth it having them instead of them sticking with the main zerg?
Abso-frickin’-lutely. When I tag up, I prefer to have 4 main groups. The zerg itself, a 5 man sentry team, a 5 man roaming team, and a 5 man ninja team. When I hit something, I want the roaming team moving to cut off the connected camps, and starving the place out, and I want the ninja team hitting a larger objective on the other side of the map. When all the teams are working in unison, you can really really do some damage.
Translation: “when I tag up, I want a map queue”
Let’s do the math. 5 man sentry team. 5 man roaming team. 5 man ninja team. 20-30 man zerg. 5+5+5+20 to 30=35 to 45. A full squad is 50. The map queue on the borderlands is around 80. Please don’t try to translate for me, because you did a very poor job of it.
Simple question. How does everyone feel about the existence of WvW Roaming guilds?
I think they are entertaining and it’s surprising how much damage they can do. So many small guilds will camp an area (whether it be a keep or spawn) and their presence just obliterates. They essentially can cut off life support from a main zerg by killing all reinforcements.
Do you think it’s worth it having them instead of them sticking with the main zerg?
Abso-frickin’-lutely. When I tag up, I prefer to have 4 main groups. The zerg itself, a 5 man sentry team, a 5 man roaming team, and a 5 man ninja team. When I hit something, I want the roaming team moving to cut off the connected camps, and starving the place out, and I want the ninja team hitting a larger objective on the other side of the map. When all the teams are working in unison, you can really really do some damage.
TC’s currently in a recovery and rebuilding process at the moment, but our goal is exactly what you’re describing as what you’d like to find. We’ve always been very open to militia commanders, and generally always want more of them.
It’s not that winning is meaningless; it’s been meaningless since day 1 and people are totally fine with pouring thousands of gold into it, anyways.
The problem is that the fights are meaningless. HoT balance is so bad and the professions so terribly-designed at this point that the very act of playing WvW feels meaningless because engaging in combat is no longer fun.
That’s what’s driving people away, and why the GvG scene is dead. Bottom line, professions need BIG changes for this format to ever stabilize.
I remember listening to an interview with Sacryx a few years back and he mentioned something he brought up to Anet during the betas. He said that he thought that people should have to fight their way to the objectives, not go to the objectives and then fight, which is something I agree with completely.
If you break things down into layers, starting on the grand scheme of things you start to notice a very disturbing pattern. Ok, and the top layer, you have the Glicko rankings, which is a flawed system. Go down one layer. What determines the Glicko rankings? The matchup scoring system, another flawed system. Go down one more layer. What determines the matchup scoring? PPT, yet another flawed system. What determines PPT? The strategic value of the areas on the map, which…. the way they areas are arranged is…. yet another flawed system. Go down another layer. What determines who controls the areas on the map? The group combat system, which… was passable before HOT but….. is now another flawed system. Go down another layer. What determines the makeup of a group? Builds and compositions, something that was decent before HOT, but…. is now yet another flawed system.
At every. single. level is a flawed system that doesn’t do the job that it’s needed to do. And the layers that were actually functional (not great, mind you, but functional), they actually broke with HOT. This isn’t something that falls onto the shoulders of the scripters or the coders, or the art design team, or the PR team, or the QA team, or the forum staff, or even the unpaid interns. These are game design decision failures, on every single layer of WvW. And instead of actually fixing the failures, they steered into the skid with HoT and actually broke what didn’t need fixing in the first place. And players leaving is the inevitable result of that. What accelerates that, however, is their pattern of hyping things up, and then severely underwhelming delivery. The “Big WvW update” is a prime example of the latest in a series of these, well, let’s call them for what they are, cheap advertising tricks. The CDIs are another example, as is the mastery system (people asked for progression and acknowledgement for their contributions, people got 1 new mastery every 2 weeks that accomplished neither and introduced several new problems into the fold as well).
Given ALL of that, tournaments certainly aren’t to blame for people leaving. In and of themselves, they’re a good thing. However, there’s just entirely too many critical fundamental flaws with every other aspect of the game. If you bury a Filet Mignon under a pile of cow manure, no one is going to want to eat it, and if it gets force fed to them, they certainly aren’t going to enjoy the taste. But that’s hardly the fault of the steak.
There’s a disturbingly easy solution to this problem. It’s not listed as one of the three options, so I’ll suggest it. Using the linkings on Mos for my examples.
“Mag/ET has captured _”
“SBI/GoM has captured _”
“HoD/IoJ/FC has captured ______”
The abbreviated names, with a slash in between them. Simple, effective, and it preserves all servers’ identities. This is how it should have been handled when linking first came in. It’s NOT something that requires a year and this much thinking and overthinking. Nor should it require pages of debates. Remember K.I.S.S. Use the full names on the WVW UI window. Use the abbreviations above the characters’ heads, and in the pop up messages.
Then spend your time and energy on improving the game itself.
I sexually identify as a tower. All of these oppressive “Keep Lords” need to check their privilege.
Yes. TW is leaving TC and joining… TC. It’ll be a strange process with a lot of psychedelic drugs and out of body experiences, but it’ll certainly make for a lot of good stories for them to tell. There might even be a weird naked hippie or two. And drums. Lots of drums.
Drums are pointless…….needs more cowbell……………
How about a compromise of a hippie drum circle, and cowbells?
Yes. TW is leaving TC and joining… TC. It’ll be a strange process with a lot of psychedelic drugs and out of body experiences, but it’ll certainly make for a lot of good stories for them to tell. There might even be a weird naked hippie or two. And drums. Lots of drums.
This is a problem that’s been around since launch, and they’re going to just end up locking this thread (possibly banning the person who started it) because that’s how Anet handles it. Which is why it’s a problem that’s been around since launch.
Maybe in a few months, after a few hundred reports and a few dozen videos are submitted, they might give the hacker a 1 week ban. But…. that’s about it. They won’t do much, and certainly not in a timely manner unless they happen to be be standing there and personally witness the person using the hack, and there’s no possible way to excuse it as anything else. I’d imagine the amount of money spent in the gem store would also play a factor as well.
shrugs It sucks, but…. it’s just how it is.
This is quite a pointless/selfish topic.
People live in different timezones and you’re basicly saying that they shouldn’t be allowed to play the game while you are sleeping. Serisously.. come on now.
I think people are missing the point here. No-one’s saying don’t play whenever you want – but if golems are removed from play at times when some servers have 10 times as many players as others, then it’s more fun for everyone.
Not for the people who want to steamroll over a small fraction of their number while they karma train through mostly empty areas. And it’s those type of people who end up flooding to every thread with the term “night capping” in it, and rather than debating the merits of whatever idea gets proposed, immediately go into an indignant debate over the semantics of the terminology. When confronted with facts and logic they immediately play the persecuted victim to perfection.
And nothing ever gets resolved, and the problem of “timezone based population imbalance” continues wreaking havoc on any semblance of integrity the entire concept of a scoring system may have ever had. Resulting in strategists growing bored/frustrated and fading away, leading to mindless karma training and pointless blob fights in the middle of nowhere.
People act as though their entire culture has been deeply offended any time the word Nightcapping is uttered because it’s easier to feign offense than to lose a massive advantage in the field, total dominance of the scoring, ranks and tiers as well as all the gold those guild get from the various servers that buy them.
shrugs It’s not a new racket, and it’s not one that’ll go away any time soon.
/sit/sit/sit always worked for me.
I had a female character do that to me once after her and two of her buddies ganked me. I didn’t feel too particularly taunted. I was tempted to whisper her and just say thanks.
The server linking, when initially put in, was a good start, but clearly needed some tweaks before it was right. In true Anet fashion, however, they went in the complete opposite direction of what was actually needed and created a complete trainwreck. This isn’t anything new for them, they’ve been doing that since launch with nearly every aspect of WvW. Tier 1 at least has some semblance of balance, but..Tier 4 is a complete headscratcher.
Reward tracks are good, but… completely favor blobbing and k-training over everything else. (Something else that’s been true of most of the changes since launch)
Given that it seems people are warming up to the idea of megaservers, and Anet’s rather unscrupulous history of making bad changes to manipulate the playerbase into supporting the perceived lesser of two evils even in favor of any good alternatives, and that there’s been a noticeable reduction in communication, my guess is that they’re cutting their losses and riding this flaming trainwreck over a cliff to try to milk as much money from it as possible before the playerbase has stopped caring. Then they can make massive sweeping changes, and turn it into EotM 2.0, and it can just be yet another champ train map like most of PvE is anymore. The playerbase is reduced to nothing but mindless hamsters on a wheel, and they can go back to pumping out LS and cash shop items and it wouldn’t even surprise me if decided to try to package the previous LS seasons together and put them on the cash shop for 20 bucks.
It’s like the parable of the coyote and the scorpion. It was only a matter of time before everyone got stung. It’s just their nature, and their nature has been proven countless times without exception since launch. There’s no changing it. Trying to is a hopeless cause. They are what they are, and they’ve proven it beyond a shadow of a doubt at this point. Their pattern has been repeated a few times now. Ignore something until it affects their bottom line, then create a hype train, then completely botch the delivery, then go dormant again. Think back to every change they’ve made since launch and each one has followed that same exact pattern.
So…. to answer the question of the thread, the point of the betas was to try to stem the bleeding of profits by creating yet another empty hype train, sacrifice the long term health for some short term profit gain, botch the execution then go silent again. Simply another opiate for the masses.
Now, they can prove me wrong, and I’d be delighted for them to do so, but…. they won’t. This is their nature, and nothing can change it.
I tested my medic thief after the rez changes and it wasn’t nearly as effective. However, if you swap out some of the venoms in the build above and put in smoke bomb/shadow refuge/smoke screen + cluster bomb, as well as swapping leeching venoms with shadow protector, you can do pretty decent AoE healing. Keeping Skelk venom certainly helps too. It’s a different style of play, since you’re basically just pumping out constant stealth and regen, rather than a lot of rolling around and rezzing, but it’s ok for support.