Please note, gimmicky 40 stacks of burns at the cost of 5 of your cooldowns (hyperbole, of course) builds are not better than this one. Ask Abelisk. On the day I made this build I kept farming him even though he had the superior condi damage and pressure. This build is simply superior to gimmick burn tempest.
it has very low defence and it looks like being short timed. So full attack and then kite for 30 seconds ? Yey in silver it will burn teams down. I did it with viper setting players 1:3 on fire turning two into piles of ashes but this build will perish against a warrior or other builds that can handle condies for about 5 seconds.
Yes i like it as base ele. I play with condie ele since one and a half year maining it. Definitly fun but this is a burn burst build that will die like a burn guard on my soldier rune or do i get this wrong ?Want go full force maybe use this:
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vFAQJArdnMIC9Mg1MAGNA8RgBBAr2kNxzQEAClFxJGMDSiA-TJBHABJVG4s9HA4BAI8JAAA
Let them die ;-). Condi removal is the weak spot …..
Imagine releasing rock barrier firing arcane power. Well rock barrier is one of my most enjoyed skill after the buff :-).Agressive Tempest version. Weakness makes you even more tanky and covers burn, more might and chill from passive aura. Maybe give that a try ;-). You might love fire overload…
Both of these are far worse than my build… (1st)Torment is a waste. I’ve tested it. It’s 90 damage while still and like ~200 while moving, it’s one stack, and it lasts for a very short amount of time. You have only very VERY little condi diversity and no defense to back it up. You have no mobility. You have no heals. Your heal skill is the worst on elementalist. (2nd) You’re using tempest… Tempest… Tempest. The same tempest with the worst elite mechanic in the game. The same tempest that relies on channeling a skill with a relatively small AoE (fire overload) and trying to make the other player stand in it long enough to make an impact. No, I will NOT like fire overload. Your tempest build uses Tempestuous Aria (one of the worst traits in the game) while your build has only 2 shouts, one with a 75 sec cooldown and the other with a 25 sec cooldown. You are again using the worst heal on ele, and you’re using “Feel the Burn” which gives only 4 seconds of burn… that’s nothing. Intelligence sucks with your build, and carrion/scavenging is horrible for elementalist.
Sage is kinda waste on ele generally and would worked better with tempest. Healing power works on ele only on tempest and power damage tickle people without cirt. I understand role of arcane precision with this traits but this skill without any other utility then damage it’s isn’t worth it . You should test carrion, deathshot, rabid or wanderer. You don’t gain any valuve from healing power in this build.
100% false. Tempest is too terrible to be an option on any damage build in conquest.
(edited by Poelala.2830)
you at least want a stunbreaker on your utility bar. that much should be common sense.
GoEP is a stun break…
Too hard to use
“Spam Flamestrike. Literally. You can get up to 14 burn at 900 range with just auto attacking. Without cleanses, it takes 5 auto attacks to kill the revenant bot in HoTM. This is great for +1ing on the sidelines in team fights because you don’t lose any essential cooldowns. "
I know youre not asking for it, but, here is my version.
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vFAQJArdhMMozh9MwxB8RMIAYUXYJUFqNZbINEBgCQRE-TpgMABAs/Q6lBAA
Builds like that one are bad because they lack any resemblance to condi diversity, among other things.
too squishy. you wouldn’t last 1 min with that in ranked pvp.
Did… did you read the first paragraph? The first 3 sentences? Oh, okay.
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vFAQJArdhUMooh1MwzB8RMIAYRAIUWEpuQSoKUby2wZA-TJhAQBA4BAAj9HkYZgNcCAAA
Read it, scan it, love it, and after you do that, read the following:
Ele’s in the worst spot for any class ever for the damage department, and no build with the current status of ele will make damage ele viable in conquest. (I know you think s/f is viable, it’s not. You may even think that it’s good, it’s not. It’s a 1v1 build with mediocre mobility. It’s worse than d/d, even. If you’re losing a 1v1, just run away. It’s easy. That’s why s/f sucks.) But this build is fun, and it even approaches good (by the standards of damage ele) because no one will know what the heck you’re running or how to cleanse fast enough. This build is not a gimmicky build with 1 objective and 1 spike. It’s an intense, high skill cap build that is unable to carry you. Here are some of the amazing combos and what they achieve. If you have questions, feel free to ask and I will respond to each one.
Offensive:
In a close quarters situation in a beginning of an unfair fight, probably a 2v1 (in your favor) or a 1v1, this is a combo for you.
Glyph of Elemental Power(while in fire)> Arcane Power> Flame Wall> Rock Barrier> Hurl while inside the Flame Wall to proc projectile finisher, and proc immob which makes all your attacks undodgeable.
Condis applied: Burn, Blind, Immob, about 9 stacks of burn, 7 bleed, 4 seconds of immob, 5 seconds of blind.
Spam Flamestrike. Literally. You can get up to 14 burn at 900 range with just auto attacking. Without cleanses, it takes 5 auto attacks to kill the revenant bot in HoTM. This is great for +1ing on the sidelines in team fights because you don’t lose any essential cooldowns.
Condis Applied: Blind, Burn
Fire Shield> GoEP which will apply 4 bun on the first time you’re hit, and 1 burn every second aftwerward + blind.
Condis Applied: Burn
Freezing Gust>Shatterstone>Comet>Dust Devil
This applies debilitating conditions that will help you in your future condi applications. The chill makes them get stuck in shatterstone, the comet interrupts them and the blind stops counter pressure
Condis Applied: Chill, Vuln, Blind
Conjure FGS> GoEP, Arcane Power> Fiery Whirl
Basically lots of burn + extra damage because wielding FGS gives you 260 power and 180 condition damage, this is also done while dodging for 1.25 seconds and applying cripple and blind
Condis Applied: Burn, Cripple, Blind
With Elementalist, if you rely on combos, you’ll get farmed. These combos are for when the stars align and you have the skills available to do this.
Defensive:
Magnetic Wave> Rock Barrier
Gives you projectile protection while gaining toughness
Swap to Water> Glyph of Elemental Harmony> Water Trident
This clears 3 conditions, applies fury and regen, and heals you for a total of 11140 with sage amulet. Counting regen, it heals for 14900 in total + soothing mist.
Dragon’s Tooth
I know what you’re thinking. “How can an offensive skill be a defensive one?” With Dragon Tooth’s incredibly large tell and cast time, it is easily dodged and most people will dodge it. Since anet shadow nerfed gale it’s effectively impossible to land, thus is used primarily for outplays and baiting out a dodge, thus making them go on the offensive instead of applying more pressure.
Gale>GoEH
This gives you a free cast so you can heal. It’s good because the knockdown on Gale is now one second (after anet shadow nerfed it, thanks anet), just like the cast time on your heal.
Openers:
Now here’s where the combos get really fun.
Arcane Power>Lightning Flash right ontop of your opponent> Dust Devil>GoEP> Phoenix
This is a beautiful opener, probably the best. So what this is is you applying 2 seconds of immob + another 2 seconds from the dust devil, + the blind from dust devil. When you swap into fire and phoenix, the phoenix applies 4 stacks of burn from your arcane power and your glyph of elemental power. This will bring down the average player (about 20000 health) to about 65>70%. This will probably bait out a heal and will definitely make the player go on the defensive which is DEFINITELY what you need. Aside from your defensive rotations and your 15k heal (lol), you are pretty squishy, and too slow to disengage.
Condis Applied: Immob, Blind, Burn
Conjure FGS> GoEP> Arcane Power> Fiery Rush> Fiery Eruption
Lots of burn and it gives you extra condition damage and power, which is even more condi damage. This also gives you high mobility and an almost guaranteed disengage.
Cleaves:
Flamewall
Lots of burn
Fiery Eruption
Even more burn
Elementalist probably has the least build diversity of any class in the entire game. Do you think that elementalist should get a damage build, even if it is as mediocre as power mesmer, condi rev, or burn guard? Please explain why or why not, and be respectful.
The sheer number and speed of all these necrofancers jumping to defend this OP skill proves just how good it is. The sooner anet nerfs it the better, for the good of the game.
The funny thing is, I don’t play necro or any classes that counter it. I just know when a skill is not OP and when it is. Stop crying because you don’t know how to play.
This skill is not OP at all. Do you know what the biggest weakness to necros is? Do you know why warrior, thief, and ranger kill it so easily? Because it has no sustain and it has no stability. I love the fact that it has no sustain and it replaces sustain for tankyness and offense (which is why I will say that it is the best designed class in the game). It needs stability in SOME manner so it can even cast its heal in higher ranks. Its heal is basically its only taste of sustain and it’s a second long cast time and it’s so easily rupted. Necromancer is countered by cc, easily, every day of the week. CTTB is good for necro because you can easily see it and guess what? You can dodge it, you can blind it, you can interrupt it. It isn’t AT ALL hard to interrupt on any class, and if you are having problems with it as a guard thief or war, you need to learn to play. My advice is don’t try to get in a team fight against the class with the best team fighting ability in the game. It’s like trying to auto attack an engineer to death.
1. Crude comparisons are useless.
Comparing certain skills across classes is a useless endeavor. Comparing thief’s Channeled Vigor to say, ranger’s Troll’s Urgent will get you nowhere when you try to claim one of the two are overpowered. The skill itself matters very little to the question of its balance in the game. What matters is the synergy, that’s why all the buffs to ele, for example, are useless. They do not deal with synergy, just with numbers at face value. Signet of Air’s buff was good, and the skill now is amazing, yet you see actually 0 people using it in ranked because it does not play into the meta. It offers no counterplay to the current meta’s speed. This could also be said about your proposed buffs. Buffing thief’s s/d (for example) will be useless because s/d was good in a slow meta, where it fits. This meta would chew up and spit out any and every s/d thief that comes near it. Before stating your proposed game changing buffs, analyze the meta and where all classes fit to see if your changes would actually impact the game in a positive way.
2. Don’t let your emotions guide you.
Usually when someone gets stomped by a very strong build or skill, they jump right onto the forums and complain about how powerful the build or skill is. Don’t be that guy. That guy will say something insane like, “Moa 2 stronk, pls delet” and expect to be respected by any of the player base, let alone be taken seriously by the game developers. This game is very intricate in its design. In fact, it’s the most intricate game I’ve ever played in my entire life, and this may hold true for the next decade. To cloud your critical thinking faculties and to take effort away from your logical thinking ability is a 1 way ticket to be laughed off of the forums.
3. Treat the devs like human beings.
Do not lower yourself to the rank of a sycophant just to get the attention and consideration of devs, and most definitely do not call each and every dev a moron because they do not think the way you do. The job of a dev for this game is incredibly hard. It’s the type of job where a few buffs to a class could change the entire meta. Where multiple buffs to a class could do nothing at all, and maintaining the role of each trait and skill for the sake of not warping the goal entirely. You’ll have to buff, but not too much. You’ll have to nerf, but not too much. And they’ve been doing this job for a while, whether it be a good job or not. Do not assume that you are better than they are because you can theory craft an amazing build. We all can. Maybe the build isn’t healthy for the meta.
4. Be open to criticism.
I’m not saying that you must pretend to be happy that someone said that you are a brain dead novice who can’t stay on a node long enough to get out of bronze. I’m saying that if someone has a genuine argument against your propositions, read them, consider them, and decide if they are valid or not. Do not simply assume you are right and near omniscient enough to deduce the health of your balance suggestions. If you think Warrior is broken OP, read peoples’ reasons as to why they disagree. Do not expect that the first person to read your post will be a dev, and do not think that a dev will read it at all. These are the forums. The main consumers of the conversations here are other players. See their point of view.
5. Do not expect change.
This last point ties in with all the previously mentioned points. Do not think that you will bring on a game changing nerf or buff to something that will end up making you happy (or ultimately not). This website is mainly for discussion, theory crafting, helping people, and most importantly, collaboration between players. Once you have rid your mind that the devs will come to a consensus and follow everything you proposed, you will end up making more logical threads that could actually influence change.
(by the way, I know that I’ve broken basically all these rules before, no need to mention that)
main problem I see is the lack of condition clear. You’ve got magnetic wave, and that’s it.
This build is bad… for a plethora of reasons. This isn’t an insult, this isn’t criticism, this is analysis. This build is countered by every class in the game and every decent build in the game. The meta build outclasses this in most areas and you’ll never see good play with this build.
I was hopeful for build diversity for ele like you are. I just don’t see anet doing anything to fix that ever. Anet has decided that meta builds > build diversity. Just give up and multi-class like the rest of us.
Thief doesn’t have that many stunbreaks.
Why I can stun breaks every 12 sec with 2sec block? Why? May I get bug in this game?
and I want to know what other class can stun breaks every 12 sec?
That’s 1 stunbreak firstly, which doesn’t even matter if you’re stun chained i.e. warrior’s headbutt then taunt proc on entering zerk form. 1 stun break isn’t enough to not get you killed from the incomming burst hit. Also, want to know other classes with 12 second stun breaks? Probably none. Though I bet you’d like to know 2 classes with 10 second stun breaks. Warrior’s outrage and Revenant’s traited legend swap. Not to mention revenant’s no cooldown stunbreak utility skill in shiro which can be spammed.
12 sec SB + 2sec block with 9 dodge + 2×1200 range mobility. If a stun can get you kill. This is unbelievable.
You are calling a strawman YOU fabricated “unbelievable”.
Thief doesn’t have that many stunbreaks.
Why I can stun breaks every 12 sec with 2sec block? Why? May I get bug in this game?
and I want to know what other class can stun breaks every 12 sec?
That’s 1 stunbreak firstly, which doesn’t even matter if you’re stun chained i.e. warrior’s headbutt then taunt proc on entering zerk form. 1 stun break isn’t enough to not get you killed from the incomming burst hit. Also, want to know other classes with 12 second stun breaks? Probably none. Though I bet you’d like to know 2 classes with 10 second stun breaks. Warrior’s outrage and Revenant’s traited legend swap. Not to mention revenant’s no cooldown stunbreak utility skill in shiro which can be spammed.
(edited by Poelala.2830)
@OP 10/10 would read again
Shadowstep like most thief utilities are overloaded with benefits.
You mean stacked like this or this ? The only thing overloaded with effects on thief is steal because you spend half your trait on that. SS has several benefits and most of the time you can’t used them all.
If you use it for :
- curing condis you loose at least one stunbreak + the mobility
- move fast you loose one stunbreak + the condi cure (since you won’t port back)
- repositioning (like getting out of LoS for healing or getting in LoS for headshotting or just mindgames) you are likely to not return in 10s
Other classes would kill for a utility that could break stun and condi clear in one. Let alone a teleport.
Elementalist had Lightning Flash gutted to not even be a stunbreaker and is basically a teleport with a crappy damage component that only teleports you once, doesn’t break stun, and doesn’t clear condi baseline.
It was cause d/d triple cantrip got 3 stun-break + awesome effect with all the synergy, many things were nerfed those days that may or may not still be relevant today.
The damage isn’t crappy at all on damage build (i took some 3k+ crit and can be combo’ed) and it’s a still pretty nice skill traited, it’s a huge mobility skill for a rather slow ele.
I don’t see why you want LF to port twice, thieves are meant to do frequent in/out (see the number of rollback or port in/port out), eles aren’t meant to do that it’s either stay ranged (staff) or go in (daggers).
Not including their signets are some of the best ones in the game.
That’s more because synergy and not because of their effect. Druids will rather keep their ep-signet instead of signet of agility because it doesn’t fit their role as I don’t see any serious thief build taking signet of stone.
Did you even looked at that even ele version is better ?
As an ele main I would like to say that your comments on ele are just hilarious. You honestly think that soothing disruption is stacked? How about Improvisation which not only lets you use a stolen item twice (which is VERY strong. double mesmer stolen object which is double all the boons in the game, double revenant stolen object which would accumilate to a 5k-7k crit that can be shot from behind you, causes slow, and at 1200 range has about 1/2 second cast time.), but it also recharges a random skill category immediately after you steal. So that means double shadow step, double signet of agility, double Bandit’s Defense. And Signet of Air is not good at all seeing that when you run it, you’re basically useless. An AoE 1200 range vuln/blind(5 seconds) on its active and 25% speed increase on its passive wasn’t even enough to make me want to test it out after its buff. Again, synergy > skills’ actual abilities.
Guys guys!! How long will it take till Henry gets stomped by a thief and post another thread about x(insert random thief skill/trait here) being op?
I would say 6 days.
2 hours maximum
I have my money on 40 minutes
You are seriously misinformed with how this game is balanced. Thief is your counter. You play necro, deal with it. You are meant for team fights (and EASILY the best class in the game for team fights, no arguments ANYWHERE against this premise) and you can win a couple 1v1s here or there but you should try to stay away from them. Thieves kill you quickly and gank you easily because that’s how the class is designed. Shadowstep is essential. 1200 range, 2 stun breaks, 3 condi clears. You also forget a few things. Thief doesn’t have that many stunbreaks. Thief doesn’t have that many condi clears. Your balance suggestions are so stupid that they are actually infuriating. You don’t want to balance a utility skill you deem as broken, you want to destroy it because you’re upset with how good it is. Please don’t make anymore misinformed off-the-cuff threads like this again. It shows your intellectual weakness.
(edited by Poelala.2830)
For an elite spec elite, you’d think that you’d get a really strong and original skill, on par to impact strike which can ensure a full kill and ignore the downed state completely. Or on par to Stealth Gyro that gives out an aoe stealth for 30 seconds and requires consistent cleave to destroy, or Head Butt, which is a 3 second stun that is a stunbreak, full adrenal gain, high damage and can proc at least 5 different traits all on a 25 second cooldown. But for ele, you have an elite that will give you considerably less than 20% of your health back upon taking a finishing blow, but if you don’t take a finishing blow while rebound is activated, you will get 1 aura based on the attunement you’re in. Let’s look at rebound and the trait “Dead or Alive”(DoA). DoA is better than rebound in every way. Warriors have 19212 health with no vitality, and eles have 11645 health with no vitality. Dead or alive heals for 5220 with no healing power and Rebound heals for 2132 with no healing power. Not only does that mean that a warrior TRAIT heals more while doing the same job (as a support class, mind you) as an ele, but it heals more proportionately to health. DoA heals 27% of the war’s health, and Rebound heals 18% of the ele’s health. DoA has an ICD of 30, meaning that virtually each time you enter berserk state, it can proc instantly on executing damage. Rebound has a cooldown of 75 with a cast time of 1/4th seconds so it can be interrupted and can’t be activated while being stun pressured. Rebound also gives the player an aura, but it’s not like auras are hard to come by. So basically, I say this to say that Rebound heals the player for 2k health, 3k health if at max healing power and that’s 2 thief auto attacks, that’s 1 spike, that’s 1 second of extra time in a team fight. Maybe a buff in mechanics to it will help, as in if rebound is activated and you are healed for 2k instead of dying, your heal skill is isntantly recharged or when rebound is activated, your shouts have a cooldown reduction of 50%, or a single shout is immediately replinished from its cooldown, or the overload for the attunement you’re currently in is recharged, or water attunement is recharged. You know, something to add a little skill cap.
I thought Tidal Surge already heals you
My buff will make it heal you twice if you’re still in the wave when it blasts.
Fire:
Heat Sync: Cooldown is reduced to 15 seconds, and the chance of boon sharing applies to all boons
Wildfire: Cooldown reduced to 20 seconds, now pulses 2 burn and has a 20% chance to steal 1 boon per pulse
Water:
Tidal Surge: The player is now healed and receives a random boon on the knockback animation of the tidal surge as well as when completing the cast of it.
Water Globe: The healing is increased by 20% and the pulses have changed from 4 to 6, the interval is now .75 seconds.
Air:
Cyclone: The radius is 360 and the range is 900, is now modified to pull twice on each target instead of once.
Lightning Orb: Now applies Fury for 3 seconds, radius is 450 and damage is increased 50%.
Earth:
Dust Storm: The interval is now 1 second, and the bleed applied is 3
Warhorn, as a boon weapon should work more on boons than it currently does. With more buffs, it could actually see play for what it was designed for. As it stands, warhorn has 1 good skill. Sand Quall. It is the most unique skill tempest has to bring to the game, but with the lackluster design of warhorn as a whole, it sees nearly no use outside of the trait “Imbued Melodies” that automatically procs it. I also thought that sustain buffs to warhorn would be necessary for build diversity because if you’re running a glassy boon build, with warhorn’s slow animations and long cast times and flashy skills with small aoes that make you vulnerable, you’re definitely going to die. Now, if the skills actually healed you and helped you a bit more, then there’d be a strong reason to run them. The buffs I chose for Wildfire are that way because Wildfire can be absolutely ignored unlike skills like warrior’s primal burst, Scorched earth, if you ignore it you’re going to regret it later. Even though they look very similar, Scorched earth is better in literally every aspect there is to account for when you trait for primal burst cooldown reduction. Mainly, the reason why I chose these buffs is warhorn is incredibly flashy and amazing yet half of the skills can simply be ignored on the battlefield, and it’s one of the more underwhelming elite spec weapons because of that reason. Mesmer’s shield, amazing in design, very strong, just wonderful. Dragonhunter’s Longbow? Glorious. Revenants shield? Great. Scrapper’s hammer? A bit overtuned, and spectacular because of it. Thief’s staff? Highest skill cap in the game. Ele’s warhorn? …Ele has a warhorn?
(edited by Poelala.2830)
Look. The only other viable damage build for ele was cele sustain. Cele is not coming back anytime soon and anything to mirror it would be too much work. This is the closest you can come to viability. Fresh Air’s burst abilities with Tempest’s AoE abilities will bring an entirely new aura to the battlefield.
you haven’t actually made an argument. “fresh air’s burst abilities with tempest’s AoE abilities will bring an entirely new aura to the battlefield” is (apart from being a sentence that doesn’t make any sense, that’s not what aura means) a horrible idea. either you create an elementalist that does what it currently does but also does a ton of pressure (more than it already does) or you get an elementalist that is just milquetoast in every regard.
these buffs specifically that you’ve mentioned in the OP are just plain buffs. they aren’t buffs to FA, they’re just plain buffs and they don’t target FA. you are not making FA viable. you are making the already viable elementalist tempest support spec more viable by increasing its pressure… and that’s it.
focus on something else. focus on a new elite spec. focus on buffing the core elementalist tools. buffing tempest will NEVER make a viable Fresh Air build.
You’re wrong about so many things, supreme, but mainly that ending statement. Why shouldn’t we assume the meta will remain the same? IT HAS FOR OVER A YEAR.
you’re joking, right?
in season 1 there were only 4 viable meta classes by metabattle’s standards. there are now 9. every single class has a role in spvp.
necromancers have changed from condi to power boonstrip.
mesmers have changed from bunkers to shatterspam.
warriors and thieves have changed from poop to viable classes.you just seem miles out of touch when you say things like the meta has not changed.
I’m talking about the ele meta, obviously.
I’d still rather have them buff base ele and not tempest. What happens when we get our next elite spec? Ele still suffers from the same weaknesses we have now and our next spec will be forced into a support role too. Its better to buff our core traits so our next elite wont be garbage and unable to play a dps role as well. Air and fire need a total rework. Air could possibly use a new trait that will heal us for the damage we do when we crit. Fire should get the might on cantrips back that was removed before. Scepter and offhand dagger both need a total rework on all their skills. Cooldowns for arcane skills and cantrips are way too long. Glyphs are just terrible and are rarely used outside pve. Our conjures should be reworked to function like engi kits so they arent completely useless.
Finally let’s stop assuming that the meta will remain the same till next season…the strong will be nerfed soon and they should not be used as an example.
You’re wrong about so many things, supreme, but mainly that ending statement. Why shouldn’t we assume the meta will remain the same? IT HAS FOR OVER A YEAR.
Have you tried go beyond meta? If you play Fresh Air ele on marauder and still troubled on your damage potential perhaps switch to Berserker or Assassin amulet and if mention amulets still fails you as an option, maybe try to co-op with other person to inflict devastating damage that one or single individual cannot achieve?
As for passive and active defences, may i suggest reading all the tool tip and skills inside the game. Whilst sharing boon required team play and personal awareness, i see no problem if one having difficulties.
You have NEVER EVER EVER TRIED THAT HAVE YOU?! Do you know what happens if you go marauder ele? You die. Do you know what happens if you go berserk ele? You die 2 times faster. If you think that such a simple fix would be the solution to our problems, you seriously underestimate the intelligence of the elementalist community. We’ve tried EVERYTHING and NOTHING works. Before you try to suggest a build that could work for us, try it out then tell us how it goes. We need buffs.
I’d still rather have them buff base ele and not tempest. What happens when we get our next elite spec? Ele still suffers from the same weaknesses we have now and our next spec will be forced into a support role too. Its better to buff our core traits so our next elite wont be garbage and unable to play a dps role as well. Air and fire need a total rework. Air could possibly use a new trait that will heal us for the damage we do when we crit. Fire should get the might on cantrips back that was removed before. Scepter and offhand dagger both need a total rework on all their skills. Cooldowns for arcane skills and cantrips are way too long. Glyphs are just terrible and are rarely used outside pve. Our conjures should be reworked to function like engi kits so they arent completely useless.
I have to entirely disagree with that. Before HoT, Ele was at the top. Cele ele was absolutely immortal and unkillable in a 1v1. S/F was the best you could get for single target cleaves. Elementalist only started being terrible when HoT came. Tempest was significantly worse than all other elite specs because it suffers from tunnel vision and lacks variety in specialization. Most of the traits are absolutely unused, and the elite weapon is terrible. Elementalist is fine, Tempest is not.
I multiclass now because ele is terrible at the moment and as someone with thousands of games that isn’t ele, the biggest thing I worry about when I see an enemy ele’s lightning overload on a node is the shocking aura they get from the trait.
okay and? if the elementalist is sending the most important aura to their friends, a buff to their friends, and creating a damage zone, they are having an impact on the battlefield. it may not be the one you want but they’re having an impact
Look at it this way. There’s 1 viable build on ele, which is bunker, so their overload air does very little damage, so you don’t have to worry about it. The hopeful eles that run dps amulets and fresh air overload air spam die almost instantaneously (unless they’re invuln) in a mid fight.
which is simply a mistake in interpreting FA’s role in a fight. FA is there to duel and clear sidepoints. yeah, you blow up on midfights- you’re like a necromancer or a thief, trying to enter the center will just get you killed.
I want overload air to have a real impact, not 3k damage over the course of 5 seconds on the battlefield, especially when you can simply walk out of the overload or interrupt the overload.
overload air lasts longer than that, the total channel and pulse time is more like 8 seconds
Also, why is bringing lightning orb into fresh air a bad idea, exactly? Good AoE cleave damage, hard to see, impossible to stop, easily evaded, with my buffs lightning orb may actually be worth swapping to warhorn.
reread my first post.
because Fresh Air is not a Tempest thing.
it is a core elementalist thing.
tempest is an area control spec, shouts are area support tools, overloads are area control and support tools, warhorn is an area support weapon. Fresh Air is a single target spec designed to burst down individual targets.
trying to make Fresh Air viable through Tempest is like trying to fit a square peg through a round hole.
if you want to buff Fresh Air, buff the other core elementalist trait lines. particularly, play Arcane instead of Tempest.
Look. The only other viable damage build for ele was cele sustain. Cele is not coming back anytime soon and anything to mirror it would be too much work. This is the closest you can come to viability. Fresh Air’s burst abilities with Tempest’s AoE abilities will bring an entirely new aura to the battlefield.
(edited by Poelala.2830)
Please, let’s end this tangent here. Conversations on necromancer should be held in a different thread or personally in PMs or in game.
I’ve just given up too. Like many players, after stagnating in gold I’ve just gave up on this season and let my decay grow to 700. I have no reason to put myself through that headache so I don’t partake in ranked at all.
The game lost nothing when the necro meta shifted to power.
The necro meta never shifted to power. The metabattle staff is just being dense.
I’m inclined to disagree I see SO many more power necros with power boonstrip than I do condi necros.
You see more power necros because it was posted to metabattle and the lemmings don’t know any better.
Power boonstrip has less boon removal than condi, significantly less dps, and is easier to counter. The only redeeming quality is that it has decent LF gain.
The only reason it’s listed as meta is because Nos streamed himself playing it.
That may be true, but even in higher tiers of pvp like legendary, NA and EU alike, power boonstrip has been seen to be more powerful and harder to counter than condi necro. Anyway, let’s end this tangent here and stick to the topic at hand.
The game lost nothing when the necro meta shifted to power.
The necro meta never shifted to power. The metabattle staff is just being dense.
I’m inclined to disagree I see SO many more power necros with power boonstrip than I do condi necros.
This build is not viable at all. You went full defensive with your traits in water and arcane, yet used harmonious conduit in tempest. Harmonious conduit without fresh air directly stunts the play of d/d ele. Overloading is too slow and you lose a lot of your extra surviveability. I suggest taking Invigorrating Torrents so you can cleanse more than not, and probably never overload. The reason why cele worked so well is because it had all the skills it needed whenever it needed it, and that cannot happen with an extra 12 second cooldown on your attunements.
Fresh air is horrible for the game. It is huge instant spikes with no visual tell and the burst is instant. It should not be viable.
This is only noticable if you run a berzerker amulet, which is not practical in higher tiers. Bad design? probably but the fact that the damage is instant and fresh air ele is still not considered meta says something IMO.
On a light golem air attunement hits for about 1.4k on critical, I’d hardly call it huge instant damage spike, even throwing in lightning strike you only add 2.1k onto that. So people are complaining about 3.5k hits in marauder…..
Other classes do more damage than that with auto attacks using defensive amulets. and that’s our “burst” on a DPS amulet, haha!
Our unavoidable and massive damage I’ve heard people call it, biggest joke on the PvP forum is thieves complaining about that.
Sadly FA isn’t likely to be viable for a long time as other classes either do it better, do way more fast damage or are much more mobile to withdraw. Pulmonary Impact doesn’t help either when attacks have fairly long casts on scepter.
With this post I’m attempting to give FA tempest a spot as the AoE burst cleaver of the battlefield, a unique role which is close to necro, but it’s at a larger range which makes it even more unique and healthy.
Fresh air is horrible for the game. It is huge instant spikes with no visual tell and the burst is instant. It should not be viable.
This is only noticable if you run a berzerker amulet, which is not practical in higher tiers. Bad design? probably but the fact that the damage is instant and fresh air ele is still not considered meta says something IMO.
On a light golem air attunement hits for about 1.4k on critical, I’d hardly call it huge instant damage spike, even throwing in lightning strike you only add 2.1k onto that. So people are complaining about 3.5k hits in marauder…..
Exactly. I think people are so infatuated with the idea of support ele, and so ignorant of the idea of a burst ele that any burst build for ele would seem overpowered and they’d make any excuse to try to shoot it down.
People are not infatuated with support ele…I’m just trying to use hard logic here looking at past balance iterations.
It would be wise to give first a viable support build to other professions with the introduction of new elites from there we finally give ele a viable burst build.
That’s… illogical. What exactly will the game lose with 1 more build to elementalist? The game lost nothing when the necro meta shifted to power. Should we have other professions a condi build before allowing necro a power build? What sense could that even make? As it stands right now, ele is the only, let me repeat that, ONLY class in the game without a single damage build, more specifically, a power build.
The title was supposed to be “5 buffs to tempest to make fresh air tempest viable” but that was too long. At any rate, buffing 1v1 builds for a conquest game is a waste of time. 1v1 builds are to 1v1, not anything else. That’s why staff thief can beat any and every class it comes across but everyone uses d/p shortbow in legendary play.
okay but why tempest FA
I wanted fresh air tempest to be viable so things like overload air and lightning orb can make a real impact on the battlefield compared to how it is now, to both push it out of utter unviability and push it out of the 1v1 build hole it’s(fresh air ele) been in forever now.
firstly that’s absurd, overload air has an impact on the battlefield
secondly, shoehorning lightning orb into an FA build is bad
I multiclass now because ele is terrible at the moment and as someone with thousands of games that isn’t ele, the biggest thing I worry about when I see an enemy ele’s lightning overload on a node is the shocking aura they get from the trait. Look at it this way. There’s 1 viable build on ele, which is bunker, so their overload air does very little damage, so you don’t have to worry about it. The hopeful eles that run dps amulets and fresh air overload air spam die almost instantaneously (unless they’re invuln) in a mid fight. I want overload air to have a real impact, not 3k damage over the course of 5 seconds on the battlefield, especially when you can simply walk out of the overload or interrupt the overload. Also, why is bringing lightning orb into fresh air a bad idea, exactly? Good AoE cleave damage, hard to see, impossible to stop, easily evaded, with my buffs lightning orb may actually be worth swapping to warhorn.
Hey guys,
I need some help with necro in soloq.
I mained Mesmer when the old power build with Gs/Staff was meta.
I was pretty decent in pvp.So now I Came back to gw 2 but I can’t enjoy the new chronomes it is just no fun for me.
So i started playing necro atm with the power boonstrip build.
What are good matchups for this build ?And how the kitten do I survive ? If i get focused I have a hard time.
Most classes have way more movement I only have warhorn 5 and it’s pretty hard to disengage or to kite effectively.
If you get focused as a mes just blink away , that’s it.
But with necro I’m kittened there is no way I can get away against most classes.
Maybe it’s just a learn 2 play issue because I’m used to mes with way more utility in Defence and movement.
And i cant trust my teammates to peel for me in low elo.What utility skills should I use?
Atm i use spectral armor, corrupt boon and you are all weaklings for the extra stunbreak.
So i thought about using the flesh worm instead of you are all weaklings for better positioning if I mess up or for disengage.
Any tips here ?So are there any 1 v1 situation against certain classes I should go for ?
Or stick with a teammate and always try to +1?Are there better necro Builds for soloq ?
Appreciate every help I can get
Ah and are there any good nec streamer? Or Youtouber?
I think this is widely a l2p issue in the sense that mantra mes and power necro are two entirely different playstyles. In gw2, most people would simply think that sustain is the only way to imitate the idea of tankyness you see in other games, but necro is simply tanky. It does not sustain, but it has 50k+ health with insane damage and should never be ignored on the battlefield. Think of it this way, as a good thief, you should really never die if you have good judgement. As a mantra mes, you should die when your cooldowns have all been expelled. You die more easily as a mes than you do as a thief. As a necro, you die when focused and stunlocked. These are simply how the classes are designed to be. As a necro, you are meant to be unseen, so you should arrive to the battlefield late and spam your aoes and let your team take the damage as you cleave the enemies down. (Or you can just have an ele with you to be your sustain for you). This is simply good design, in my opinion. Now, imbalance was created when they let war have perma 800 healing per second with a 10 sec stunbreak/adrenal gain with incredible resistance and 50%-perma 25% movement speed increase. But that’s a whole different story. I hope this helped.
Fresh air is horrible for the game. It is huge instant spikes with no visual tell and the burst is instant. It should not be viable.
This is only noticable if you run a berzerker amulet, which is not practical in higher tiers. Bad design? probably but the fact that the damage is instant and fresh air ele is still not considered meta says something IMO.
On a light golem air attunement hits for about 1.4k on critical, I’d hardly call it huge instant damage spike, even throwing in lightning strike you only add 2.1k onto that. So people are complaining about 3.5k hits in marauder…..
Exactly. I think people are so infatuated with the idea of support ele, and so ignorant of the idea of a burst ele that any burst build for ele would seem overpowered and they’d make any excuse to try to shoot it down.
Oh it’s ‘Poe-all classes are OP except ele-lala’! Rofl!
Nope. Ele OP~ Needs nerf~
Ele is not at all OP. Let’s look at thief. Their primary role is to decap and play nodes like chess and +1 like a champion. They do this so well that a good game for them is a 20:<2 k:d, or something of the same ratio. They can do this all alone if they so please. Let’s look at Druid, they’re the sustain/dps gods. No class can do what they can do when it comes to both sustaining and doing great damage. Not Scrapper, not Ele. Let’s look at scrapper and their insane boons and high ability to reset. Let’s look at war. Tanky bursty kittens whose only weakness is kiting, which very few classes can do effectively. Now, let’s look at ele. All burst/condi builds are unviable and there’s really, realistically 1 viable build on ele. Boring water/earth/tempest d/f auramancer. They can do no damage, they can heal sure, but if focused, they’re dead. They are effectively only useful in group situations. I’d be fine with this if it weren’t the only viable Ele build. They cannot 1v1 nor can take well coordinated bursts like scrapper, war, and druid can. If most players knew ele like most players know war, eles would die in every scenario with an equal skill basis. An ele’s ONLY role is to +1. They can’t even bunker anymore. Let’s look at thief again, their role is to +1 and decap. See what I mean now?
Other classes have pretty much only 1 viable build to play in this meta as well. Same traitlines as well.
All other classes weak except Ele too OP!!!!!!
Ele needs rebalancing! Nerf the healing! Waaaaaaaah~
Sounds familiar eh~
It’s not to the extent that ele lacks build diversity. Ele’s only viable build is auramancer and its submeta build is the s/f water/arcane/air build, which is a 1v1 build. Being a 1v1 build, it makes it non optimal and almost useless for the conquest scene.
why would you buff tempest to make fresh air viable?
tempest is an elite spec
address core class mechanics and traits otherwise espec 2 ele FA will not be viable anyway and you’ll end up with overbuffed tempest
The title was supposed to be “5 buffs to tempest to make fresh air tempest viable” but that was too long. At any rate, buffing 1v1 builds for a conquest game is a waste of time. 1v1 builds are to 1v1, not anything else. That’s why staff thief can beat any and every class it comes across but everyone uses d/p shortbow in legendary play. I wanted fresh air tempest to be viable so things like overload air and lightning orb can make a real impact on the battlefield compared to how it is now, to both push it out of utter unviability and push it out of the 1v1 build hole it’s(fresh air ele) been in forever now.
Oh it’s ‘Poe-all classes are OP except ele-lala’! Rofl!
Nope. Ele OP~ Needs nerf~
Ele is not at all OP. Let’s look at thief. Their primary role is to decap and play nodes like chess and +1 like a champion. They do this so well that a good game for them is a 20:<2 k:d, or something of the same ratio. They can do this all alone if they so please. Let’s look at Druid, they’re the sustain/dps gods. No class can do what they can do when it comes to both sustaining and doing great damage. Not Scrapper, not Ele. Let’s look at scrapper and their insane boons and high ability to reset. Let’s look at war. Tanky bursty kittens whose only weakness is kiting, which very few classes can do effectively. Now, let’s look at ele. All burst/condi builds are unviable and there’s really, realistically 1 viable build on ele. Boring water/earth/tempest d/f auramancer. They can do no damage, they can heal sure, but if focused, they’re dead. They are effectively only useful in group situations. I’d be fine with this if it weren’t the only viable Ele build. They cannot 1v1 nor can take well coordinated bursts like scrapper, war, and druid can. If most players knew ele like most players know war, eles would die in every scenario with an equal skill basis. An ele’s ONLY role is to +1. They can’t even bunker anymore. Let’s look at thief again, their role is to +1 and decap. See what I mean now?
People arguing against buffs are obviously people who have never played ele and don’t realize how any of the traits work. You do realize that DPS ele uses NONE of the same traits as support ele right? Same stupid arguments from the same ignorant people from back when they thought classes could have 30/30/30/30/30 builds. If you take one set of traits and utilities, you can’t take the other. why is that so hard for some people to grasp? Buffing DPS ele would in no way at all affect support ele. It would just add another different build. Do I have to draw you a chart or use little puppets for you to grasp this simple concept?
+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1 you took the words right out of my brain
Lightning Orb’s radius is now 450
Uhh you realize that a radius of 450 would make it the size of a capture point pretty much? O_O
Hey, if traps can be the size of a capture point, so can basic attacks!
You do realize that since orb is moving, it allows all attacks from it to be evaded with using only 1 evade and normal running speed against the orb’s trajectory. Just 1 evade.
Helseth, you do not understand the reason players like myself regularly QQ on the forums. It’s not because we’re bad, it’s not because we want to get better, it’s because the enjoyment we get out of this game is dwindling to nothing at this point. We don’t just want to be able to beat condi wars, for example, we want to have fun while doing it. We’re tired of getting farmed by easy and spammy builds that carry people because we just want to play a class how we want to play it. We’re bored of playing support ele, but we love ele and we see the potential in it. We’re tired of playing condi necro and we just want to be able to burst. We’re tired of power scrapper, we’re tired of how the game is going in the wrong direction, in our opinions, and the creators of this game deserves to know customers’ feedback.
If you want to play power necro then I suggest you try out the meta power necro that 99% of the high ranking necros use now. You know, the build with some of the highest burst in the game..
Condi war is a rare sidespec compared to ZERKER war right now. I should also add that both condi war and zerker war are some of the highest possible skillcap specs.
In general, all the balance forum complaints are completely misinformed and based on a lack of knowledge on how to fight these builds which is very ironic considering that the complaint is usually ’’they’re unskilled’’. A personal pet peeve is people complaining about condi mes being ’’unskilled’’ and wishing for power mesmer to return, a build which didnt even require close to as much mechanical ability as the chronophantasma build does.This is the one and only response I’ll give to someone trying to sidetrack this thread with useless complaints. If you want to enjoy such a thread, go ahead and join one of the many others on the forums or make another one yourself. I’ll use this space to help people who want to improve get better at the game. If you want to enjoy that offer I suggest you ask a question.
Again, you’re missing the argument. The heart of our complaints isn’t that something is “too hard”, that’s the face of it. The heart of our complaints is that playing the meta and fighting the meta is unfun.
you wont be able to win this argument like that because alot of builds have counters which is why at high level plays 1 vs 1 go on for ever.
What i will agree with is that games speed has gone up 20 times, warriors use to set up bursts in 45 sec. Now in 45sec they need to land 3-5 bursts to stay alive.
Also build diversity is weak, its not about the skill it takes to play condi or power mesmer but the ability to play either at a high level.
I understand what you are saying though.
[/quote]
>A lot of builds have counters which is why 1v1s involving skilled players last forever
That doesn’t make sense. Yes, builds have counters, duh. What does that have to do with the false assumption that 1v1s involving skilled players last forever? That’s false, and that is easily proven false. Look at the esl pro leagues, watch the entire streams, you’ll see that 1v1s happen quickly. Look at very skilled players like Min Scherzo, his 1v1s are relatively fast. Look at 1v1s with Drazeh against Helseth. Those don’t take more than 3 minutes. You’re confusing skill with bunker builds.
The second part of your response is unintelligible. Also, wars are considered tanky bursters by EVERYONE, look at Sindrener, he speaks about them all the time that way, you’re wrong again.
And the idea that “build diversity is weak” makes no sense whatsoever. How does that make any sense at all? Like actually take your time and explain it to me thoroughly because it just seems as though you want to disagree with people without using any critical thinking faculties at all. Also, power mes is not viable in legendary EU play. Ask anyone, even the best of the best players, they’ll agree.
Helseth, you do not understand the reason players like myself regularly QQ on the forums. It’s not because we’re bad, it’s not because we want to get better, it’s because the enjoyment we get out of this game is dwindling to nothing at this point. We don’t just want to be able to beat condi wars, for example, we want to have fun while doing it. We’re tired of getting farmed by easy and spammy builds that carry people because we just want to play a class how we want to play it. We’re bored of playing support ele, but we love ele and we see the potential in it. We’re tired of playing condi necro and we just want to be able to burst. We’re tired of power scrapper, we’re tired of how the game is going in the wrong direction, in our opinions, and the creators of this game deserves to know customers’ feedback.
Why are you buffing tempest to make FA ele viable? The issue has always been about the weapon not doing enough damage and the sustain being subpar to other dps professions.
Fresh air vanilla ele is already incredibly strong.
Fresh air is horrible for the game. It is huge instant spikes with no visual tell and the burst is instant. It should not be viable.
Never thought I’d agree with him but…yeah Fresh Air is bad design and I’m saying this as ele main, all insta dmg crap with no tell must go, we should not rely on a gimmick to make a burst ele, the trait is simply cancer…just not as much cancer as other crap currently ( skull grinder – dh – berseker GS burst – dodgemancer as most cancerous elements atm in GW2)
“Spikes with no tell”
“Cancer”
Tell me. Have you legitimately EVER been more afraid of an amazing scepter ele than you were of a pulm d/p thief? Ever? And you complain that fresh air gives the player too much instant high non visual damage. Let’s look. Lightning strike has a 4 sec cooldown and does 654 damage with 2050 power. The trait also named Lightning Strike does 510 damage when you swap to air. Is this… what you call too much burst? Is this what you worry about? Any other skills that do high damage are not a benefit of fresh air, or they’re easy to see. And when you say that this must go, it’s already gone and has been for years now.Imbalance is created when one profession can effectively cover more than one role at any given time.
I don’t deny the power of pulmonary impact but remember that thief got nothing other than burst role therefore before making a high tier burst ele build we must make sure that current high tier burst builds receive some other kind of buff to cover different roles.
We need to be careful with buffing the burst aspect of the ele because the support nature of the ele is ingrained into the design, anything you do..you support others.
Would ele be a class where you can either support or burst…then it would not be as hard to buff it.
The way tempest is, a burst role would catapult ele into the realm of the gods. When you balance a MMO , you must take in consideration different scenarios : like PvE, PvP and RvR and the last thing we want is more skill splitting that kills all the fun in the game.
I’m 100% behind giving ele a high tier burst build….but not to tempest, for me the ideal scenario would be a new elite that lacks the support tools of tempest, so that people won’t stack ele in soloq when next round of elites comes.
Once we have that, we can change Fresh Air, change its gimmick nature : spamming a passive trait is no way fun to fight at all; ofc all other professions have their fair share of passive crap that should be removed also..but promoting even more the power creep we have now would simply aggravate the situation.
Now if I have to give an honest review of your changes:
1) Good, quite good 100% agree
2)-3) Vastly OP, we’re talking about shouts that can target other allies, can you imagine stacked eles using “Eye of the storm” ; some eles with additional support coming from others may decide to drop Invigorating Torrent for more heal spam on point with the reduced CD on shout plus might and weakness..actually the support now would be even better than having simple regen+vigor, now you’re actively increasin your team dmg while reducing enemy dmg…..plus you still aoe protection everybody
4) Warhorn would still be bad , you didn’t tackle main problem : very slow activation- long after cast; the blind on dust storm not enough, the skill should remove 2 condis also…or add resistance..or just last 10s ( for god sake you’re facetanking others..on an ele, we need better defense than blind)
5) Wouldn’t mind but don’t see that much of an improvement, yes a buff but nothing to jump out
You’re so very wrong about burst tempest. Not everything we do helps allies, especially not with my traits and shouts. With tempest, the reason WHY burst is so impossible is because there’s such a dichotomy between burst and support. It’s impossible to do both, and that’s why s/f tempest is such a free and easy kill. I run gale song on my burst tempest, and I never see any improvement in team play. 3 extra seconds on others is not that powerful at all. The skill has a 40 sec cooldown. When traited, it would have a 32 second cooldown. That is not spammable. And the hilarious dream of stacked eles with high quickness is as laughable as saying that mesmers will stack full wells for high alacrity uptime. Also, my warhorn buffs were very good because it matches the playstyle of warhorn. Warhorn is not focus, or dagger. It’s warhorn. It’s supposed to be different. And the slow cast after long cast time is imperative for its design. Imagine an instacast orb that is 5x as fast as it is now. QQ for days on the forums. Also, aoe protection is impossible for eye of the storm because it has no aura.
Was your class pushed into a 1 role corner and literally any other role will get you killed? Was the 1 corner your class forced into then nerfed? Do you feel that everyone disagrees with you that your class sucks but they don’t play it themselves? Welcome. You know how ele feels now.