Guild Wars 2

I never said that it was more difficult than shatter. Or even as difficult. Good shatter players are very skilled, and I’ll freely admit to not being at that level.

I simply dispute the myth that goes around the forums that playing a PU build is some sort of “easy mode” where you just stand there and opponents fall at your feet. It’s a load of BS, like most of the myths about “faceroll” or “troll” builds.

And if you think you can play PU/phantasm effectively without paying attention to what your opponent is doing, then I’m not the one who doesn’t know what he’s talking about. As just one example, I do a fair bit of my damage through a 2-second block on scepter, and I have to time that right or it’s just a waste of 2 seconds.

Finally, if being uber good at a “legitimate” shatter build means you lose a lot because it’s “inflexible” then that means high risk, high effort for low result. Which means it’s a bad build, whether or not it meets the arbitrary notions of “legitimacy” of forum elitists.

Fourth.1567:

If you want to prove this opinion wrong show me how those two builds are interactive with an opponent, promote quick reaction and require complex thought to execute.

I play a PU/phantasm hybrid build and in combat I’m constantly moving, dodging, summoning, activiating utilities, swapping weapons.. just like anyone else. I do it right and I can kill 1 opponent or tie up 2 opponents for a long time. Do it wrong, and I’m toast.. just like anyone else.

I have no idea what you are even talking about. Sounds like you’re just repeating myths you read from others who are also repeating them.

Well I just had a match where someone from the other team said “kitten mesmer” or something in map chat after it was over. I took it good-naturedly and asked him what he meant, and he just said he was annoyed because “YOU WOULDN’T DIE AND KEPT DISAPPEARING”. Heh.

He said he thought I was good, which was reassuring.

And I pointed out that.. my team still lost.

This “legitimacy” is a construct of your imagination / desire to be seen as superior in some arbitrary way.

A build is good if it works, and it works if it wins. The rest is nonsense.

Fourth.1567:

Shatter = most legit build. However it has a lack of flexibility so it has troubles adapting to different metas.

LOL. So basically you define “legit” as something that doesn’t win?

Gotcha.

Drives me crazy when my ‘team’ decides we should just ignore the far point, giving the other team constant free points, and then whines at me when I try to decap it.

It’s unfortunate that some of you can’t find some other way to enjoy the game that doesn’t involve having to do every daily, but that’s your choice.

All I know is that when one team has a home point that is left captured and completely ignored by the other team because they are “focusing home/mid”, the team with the free capture point usually wins – for obvious reasons.

Well it appears that the new achievements are here to stay, at least for now. So you have a choice: change how you play or keep doing something you hate and be miserable doing it.

There is no such thing as “trolling” in PvP as long as you are trying to win. It’s a stupid term ridiculously overused.

If the bunker goes far and you waste time trying to kill him, you’re not being “trolled” — you’re being beaten.

Well I’ve tried builds like those and to be honest and haven’t had that much luck with them. I usually end up getting worn down fairly quickly and I can’t do a lot of damage.

Maybe I just need more practice.

As for hambow, my mesmer eats them for breakfast and I’m far from an expert.

alvarez.3159:

All I know is that PU is in need of some serious nerf. I’d rather fight Minionmancers and spirit rangers. Comparing it to the skill needed to play a decent interrupt/shatter-mesmer, it’s just ridiculous.

Funny how I hear equal numbers of complaints that PU is too powerful and needs to be nerfed and snide remarks that PU builds are useless in PvP and I shouldn’t run the trait.

As for shatter builds, my understanding is that most of the higher-ranked mesmers run shatter. But actually combinations of shatter with CC in “lockdown” type builds.

vashio.6297:

This is just to much to have for one class… and basically they can take all of these into one build which is insane.. and shouldn’t be allowed.

Please post a link to this build.. I want to play it. Thanks!

(I’m serious.)

The dogfight at mid can be fine if you do it in a way that advantages your team, and if the other players take advantage of it. If 3 players from your team engage 4 from theirs, and the other 2 players on your team guard the side points, you win. The problem is that as you’ve observed, it’s rarely the case that anyone is that organized.

Reesha.7901:

That was not the case. I got to watch my entire “team” chase one enemy player around the map while I was alone against the rest of his team.
All I could do was cap or decap and then run for my life to cap/decap something else.

This is what happens to me. Many games, I find 3 or 4 of my teammates in a big dogfight somewhere, usually at mid, and I have to try to cap or decap the other points. In some cases, while I am doing this I’m getting berated by some tactical genius on my team who thinks I too should join the big fight rather than “wasting time capping far”. It’s crazy.

Reesha.7901:

At the lower levels of mmr, there is not much teamwork going on at all.
I think you are right in your points, but I think the teamwork is more likely to happen once you raise your mmr, which is what the OP has issues with in the first place.

Exactly the point of the thread, thanks. It’s a vicious circle to some extent.

But there’s nothing I can do about it other than quit or just accept that I’ll be in this quagmire for a long time.

This is part of why a few weeks ago I was looking for one of the “overpowered” builds everyone complains about that can carry a game. I haven’t found one yet that works for me though I still have to try engi, necro and ranger.

As a mesmer, warriors are usually one of my easiest kills. But that’s probably because, at least at my MMR, most warriors are played in a low-skill manner by people who think all they have to do is charge in full steam ahead and they’re sure to win.

You beat warriors (and others like them, such as offensive thieves) with defensive counterplay designed to throw them off their game. Done properly, it’s highly effective.

Ulalume.9584:

Everyone who solo queues has been in those bad matches where your entire team seems to have one goal and that is to tank your rating. Don’t give up on pvp, just keep queuing. Even if for now your rating does not seem to improve, you will get better with more experience.

Do yourself a favor and don’t check leaderboard stats for at least two weeks. Just play, try to win your 1v1s, try to help winning team fights, and enjoy pvp for what it is.

This is good advice, thanks. And pretty much what I started doing last night… just going to team queue, assuming I will lose at least half my matches, and working on my own build and getting my rank higher so I have a shot of getting on a team later on. And oddly enough, actually won a few matches.

Quickfoot, I don’t assume they are a herd of cats, they just usually behave that way. As it happens last night I got into a couple of matches where we did play like a team and that was great. I’m just tired of being the only one who tries to play intelligently when 3 or 4 of the others simply want to run around and skirmish (or worse). So I’m just going to go with whatever happens from now on and not worry about it.

I do play a mesmer but it’s a very balanced one, capable of taking or defending a cap point, and I’m also often able to tie up 2 opponents for a long time giving the rest of my team an advantage. I’m not a selfish player.

Best way to find out is try it for yourself, but I won’t use that signet in PvP period — 35s is too long to be without a heal.

Build is tanky but doesn’t seem to have much in the way of damage dealing. You have some direct damage but low precision and no bleed on crit, and your condi damage is low which makes your scepter/torch weak.

You should also take Cleansing Conflagration since you have torch anyway and no other condi removal.

Malediktus.9250:

I dont get why noone of the anet employes cant spare a minute for a single sentence or two I dont think its too much to ask for.

I don’t think it’s a lack of time. It’s either that they don’t want to comment on this until they think through what they will or will not change, or they don’t want to set a precedent about commenting on these sorts of game time investment issues. I don’t know.

I can see it being particularly frustrating in this forum where they do comment on lots of threads but avoid this one. There may be some reason we can’t anticipate.

DuranArgith.1354:

That may be true Qaelyn, but if Anet is doing us “favor”, shouldn’t they at least provide a response anyway? That’s all we are asking really. If they come and simply tell us"Guys, we are sorry that you are so disappointed, but the dailies are here to stay because it is good for PVP" then please, let them do so and we will both choose our respective actions.

I agree that they should address the issue.

Team queue, solo queue, doesn’t matter. People either don’t make plans or they make them and don’t follow them. Last game we agree I’m going far point, some other guy follows me anyway. So I leave so he can deal with it, and he abandons it. I go back when I notice this, and again he follows me and we lose the other 2 points.

Every bloody game is like this. I’m getting ready to just give up on it, because I don’t see any way to get out of this mire when I lose my matches all the time over things I cannot control.

Several days later it still feels like this is happening. I dueled with a friend and he said he could tell I had significantly improved.. but I still lose a little over 50% of my matches, and barely nudge my leaderboard position (and thus MMR) because I seem to incessantly be stuck on teams with players who don’t listen and don’t talk and don’t act like a team so we lose.

I don’t know if it’s just an incredible run of bad luck or if there’s something funky with my account, but it’s incredibly disheartening.

You just need to learn to get on as many bad teams as I do.

Thanks for the confirmation.

Turned out I didn’t like that build so it’s not a big deal, but I reported it again anyway.

Rigel.5789:

But unless ArenaNet realises the problems of the current system the completionist population of Guild Wars 2 will drop immensely.

If I’m running Arenanet, and my choices are between a few people leaving and having to constantly worry every time I add a new achievement that those people are going to complain because they lack the self-discipline to pace themselves, I’m fine with a few people leaving.

But I’d also remove the leaderboard. Because it (unlike the PvP leaderboards) measures nothing other than grinding, and it seems to cause more problems than anything else.

Frankly, I think Arenanet has done a big favor to anyone who quits over this. Though it may take a while until some of them realize it.

I used to be somewhat of a defender of this map, but you can now count me in the remove it ASAP crowd.

Too easily abused, too many bugs, too much class imbalance, too many people quitting/AFKing matches.

Don’t forget.. if you lose 500-320 but you have 220 points for your personal score and everyone else has under 150 (especially that stupid guy who kept running around capping and decapping points rather than joining the big brawl at mid) that means you lost because your team stunk.

I was trying to make a blocking build with Malicious Sorcery and IC and noticed they didn’t seem to be stacking. On further testing it appears MS is just not reducing the cooldown on the scepter block at all. It works with Confusing Images (#3) but not #2.

Should I report it again or would it be on some long list somewhere of things that may or may not get fixed?

Thanks.

They removed a thread tracking bugs? How odd.

What’s he doing there? Following the wonderful advice he got from threads like this one, of course.

I was trying to make a blocking build with Malicious Sorcery and IC and noticed they didn’t seem to be stacking. On further testing it appears MS is just not reducing the cooldown on the scepter block at all. It works with Confusing Images (#3) but not #2.

Can any other scepter-lovers check this out and let me know what you find? Thanks.

jimmyimo.2089:

Could I report people for botting when they leave their team behind in a 5v5 to split far?
I mean that must be a computer program because any one with a brain would not do this.

Not only is the question nonsense, but there are many valid strategies involving striking the far point. I do it myself sometimes.

Romek.4201:

and arenanet cant do anything bout leaver when game is started

Why do people keep posting this really weak claim? It’s not only false but obviously so. Even if they can’t technically prevent someone from leaving if they really want to, they can do an awful lot to discourage the practice. With the right carrots and sticks, players leaving games would be a rarity instead of being commonplace as it is right now.

These happen to be the two classes I’ve played most, and while I’m far from an expert on either, I think mesmer is more fun, has more build options and potential, and is also stronger overall.

I have to admit that sometimes, like today, I feel just like the OP did when he started this thread.

PvP in GW2 is something that could be great but is currently VERY frustrating.

Dee Jay.2460:

There’s really no reason to play SoloQ ever again.

For me, the reason is losing a LOT more matches. I don’t know if it’s my position in the leaderboards but 2/3 of the games I go into on team queue I end up with utterly clueless teammates who get slaughtered by well-organized premade teams.

I’m sure it’s not just me, either.

Basically, compared to solo queue, your chances of a competitive match as a solo player are much lower. Because there’s a good chance your opponents are better than your teammates.

Rigel.5789:

The problem is that we get new dailies over actual hard permanent achievements to differentiate people.

No, the problem is that rather than viewing achievements as something fun to work on, and the point total as a personal accomplishment, you (and others) are in some sort of incredibly lame competition to see who can get the most points – as if this means anything other than how much time you’re willing to waste accumulating points.

Rigel.5789:

We don’t want to sit and repeat the same daily required content every day.

Then don’t. Problem solved.

That really is the bottom line, because the issue isn’t anything to do with GW2, just with a small number of (very loud) people who don’t seem to be capable of making wise decisions about how to spend their time. The only complaint I would make to Arenanet, again, is about the stupid leaderboard that encourages pathological accumulation of these meaningless “achievement” points.

The problem isn’t the new dailies. The problem is the leaderboard.

Having a leaderboard for something that measures not skill but just hours of time wasted on grinding encourages the sort of dysfunctional behavior that’s all over this thread.

I see you’ve gotten the predictable useless sarcastic and cynical replies.

1. I started playing PvP for one reason: I loved the idea of WvW but wasn’t too keen on what happened when I went in there with no experience fighting other players. That is, getting killed regularly and quickly. I thought PvP would be a good way to hone my skills and especially get over the “panic” feeling I’d always get in WvW when another player attacked me. I’m almost ready to start WvWing again and see how well that has worked, but I already notice my confidence level is much higher even in PvP matches.

2. PvP is a free playground. You can start a new character in a class you’ve never played, go to the Mists and you’re level 80 with a free selection of any weapons, runes and sigils you want. While the gear doesn’t perfectly match that of PvE/WvW, you can easily change builds and equipment and it doesn’t cost anything, making it perfect for experimenting.

3. It’s challenging, and that draws me despite the many frustrations of the current system. After you PvP you find PvE to be pretty much a joke (if it wasn’t before). And the fighting is much more balanced and much more under your control than in most WvW encounters.

It’s unfortunate that Arenanet has neglected the problems with PvP for so long. They say they are going to make it a priority going forward and I hope they do. But there’s still fun to be had if you look for it.

Interesting. As a PU/hybrid player myself I’ve tinkered with 0/20/30/20/0 a fair bit though I’m still running 20/20/30/0/0 for the moment.

A few things that strike me.. bear in mind I am not super-experienced and I hope someone will correct me if I’m wrong in my impressions of the build and your trait selections.

1. You have no condition removal at all. You will quickly learn to regret that. If you’re taking 20 points in Inspiration anyway, Mender’s Purity is an obvious choice.

2. The focus doesn’t impress me as too useful in this sort of build, and I believe the warden may currently be bugged.

3. They dropped the CD on Mirror of Anguish, but 60 seconds is still IMO too long for something that gives a relatively minor benefit.

4. In a phantasm build I think Phantasmal Fury is likely better than Blade Training. It’s going to give your phantasms a pretty big boost, while Blade Training gives a small boost only to you and only half the time.

5. If you’re after precision, Lyssa runes are likely your best choice because of their other benefits in PvP.

6. All weapon sigils share cooldowns. If you put two on-crit sigils in the same weapon set, only one will generally activate as I understand it.

Not when used properly it doesn’t.

NevirSayDie.6235:

Hmm, I thought it was a pretty important trait for elementalists.

And you’re leaving PU off mesmers? Odd.

Andrew.4506:

I miss actually being able to do my pvp daily every day. The new requirements are just WAY too much.

How have the new achievements impeded your ability to do what you were doing before?

My last two matches in team queue…

First, a 3v5.
Second, a game we lost because nobody would lead the party or follow my efforts to lead, preferring to all run in circles like headless chickens.

That’s what happens in team queue when you’re a solo player.

My current solo queue win percentage is around 48%. Team queue, around 28%. So no, it’s not me.

RoRo.8270:

Why would you report them?

For the same reason as anyone else should be reported for ruining matches.

Sometimes people do D/C and then reconnect a short time later. And then the match is lost anyway because someone decided to AFK because he was too cowardly or lazy to try his best despite the odds.

I always continue to fight. If for no other reason than to sharpen my skills at playing outnumbered, and give the other time something to do. It’s not their fault someone quit either.

I ask the devs again.. please…

Increase the penalties for people who abandon their teams.

Thank you.

To someone who never played GW1, these threads sound like grumpy old men sitting on a porch complaining about how much better things were in the “good old days”.

It’s a new game. Take it on its own merits. If there’s specific things you want brought into it from GW1, then suggest it and maybe they’ll do it, but the overall “why is this not like the other game” griping seems pointless.

Rednik.3809:

But game is still about circles. You can win every single fight, but if your enemy control circles, you WILL lose the match.

Which IMO is exactly what makes it a lot more interesting than what it would likely be otherwise — blobs zerging and random (usually unbalanced) skirmishes, which is what I constantly see in the hotjoin maps.

So still experimenting with the condi clearing mantra, null field and the disenchanter. Problem is it’s hard to judge the relative effectiveness because of how different each match is. I liked null field at first, but the extremely long CD is a bummer. Trying to give the disenchanter a fair shake now, since it has other advantages as well.