Guild Wars 2

Herr der Friedhoefe.2490:

They’ve done it before, they’ll do it again. They refuse to learn.

If you’re talking about European governments that love to impose so many regulations and so much bureaucracy that nobody wants to deal with doing anything in their countries, then you’re quite correct.

Archaon.6245:

There are also more people going on trackdays at weekends than F1 or GT championship’s pilots…and that’s not a reason to balance motor sports around them or to give them more impact on something just because they are more…we don’t need more in gw2 pvp…we need better….that’s the point, and nerfing pu is one way to stop giving bads the opportunity to prevale even if they play like kitten (Even if it’s in hotzerg only) like they already do with wars, rangers and necros…

It’s hard to take anyone seriously who uses “bad” as a noun. Cringe.

Anyway, your analogy fails because each type of car race can have its own set of rules without affecting the others. That’s not the case here. The general rules of the road, traffic laws, speed limits etc. are set based on an average driver in an average car, not the guy in a Ferrari.

If Arenanet wants to set up a separate system for the top N players or whatever, fine. But as long as we all have to play by the same rules, those rules should be based on what makes gameplay fun for EVERYONE, not just those of a certain rank.

mahariel.4981:

Interesting that you’ve resorted to ad hominems and i’m the noxious one.

I think your constant insistence that everyone who disagrees with you is somehow either stupid or griefing puts you well into the ad hominem category. And that’s just here; the noxious behavior I was talking about is what you’ve described about how you act in-game.

mahariel.4981:

You know my standards for “experienced” are perfectly reasonable…

No, actually, I don’t. But thanks for again demonstrating your apparent inability to conceive of anyone being different than you are.

People with such specific ideas about what “experienced” means should not be PUGging, IMO.

Sensotix.4106:

what i wrote was that pu is way too powerful in hotjoin because people dont really care about winning the match by holding points -> stealth/ PU = loosing points because you cant hold points with stealth
with pu you can easily win open field battles which are not on the nodes and there it is incredibly powerful

Even if this is true, it’s not a reason to remove PU. Hotjoin is part of the game too, and people can play it how they want. If they enjoy open field battles not on the nodes, there’s nothing wrong with that. Hotjoin is basically a free-for-all; if you don’t like it, don’t use it, just as if you don’t like PU, don’t use that, but don’t call for it to be removed.

Sensotix.4106:

since we have conquest mode in the game the trait is not good for fighting on points because you rely on stealth no matter if you play tpvp around the 800 ranking or in the top 100 it doesnt matter

Well, I’m not in the top anything, but I run a PU build and I fight on points all the time. I can decap points, I can prevent another team from capping one, I can tie up opponents, I can support and work with teammates.

Sensotix.4106:

so it basically is extremely good in open field/hot join where you dont care about winning (or where people in genereal dont care about winning) but its extremely useless in tpvp

Then don’t use it. Stop calling for things to be removed from the game just because they don’t suit the areas you enjoy – there are a LOT more people playing hotjoins every day than in the top X of the PvP leaderboard.

It’s amazing that someone can (in theory) be so good at a videogame, and yet so completely horrible at understanding the natural variances that exist in human ability in a wide variety of areas.

People like you shouldn’t PUG at all. Find a guild with other “ubermenschen” who take themselves far too seriously and run with them – it will insulate you from possibly being stuck with lesser beings, and spare all of us mere mortals from having to deal with your noxious attitude.

Things that are fun:
- Stuff I do that I enjoy and/or that kills other players.

Things that are not fun:
- Stuff others do that I do not enjoy and/or that kills me.

Okay, I’ll explain the problem with sensotix’s comment: it’s not logical to suggest that something is both overpowered and useless at the same time.

Geff.1930:

If I fight against a mesmer (again with a certain kind of build, glassy direct damage build) there is nothing I could have done.

Don’t know that I buy that claim. But even if I did, you do realize you are describing a build that’s the exact opposite of the one most people complain about (which is mostly defensive)?

Doesn’t really leave a lot.

mahariel.4981:

OP asks for build ideas, I give him build ideas. You bait long tirades from me by questioning my condescension towards greatsword.

My initial question was an honest one as I have never had anyone say boo to me in game about my using a GS anywhere in PvE. The tirades were your choice.

mahariel.4981:

Who would have guessed, efficiency can be fun.

Efficiency can be fun. Dealing with people who think 100% efficiency is the end all be all of playing part of a game, or who obnoxiously boot people from their group because they decide their build isn’t exactly the way they would do it? Not fun.

I’d rather take twice as long to do a dungeon with “inefficient” players than have to endure one with an attitude like yours.

Some people seem to be under the bizarre impression that this is a mission-critical military operation rather than a game.

I don’t do dungeons a great deal (in part because it’s boring to do the same thing over and over, and in part because of pompous attitudes like those on display in this thread) but when I do, I go with friends or guildies. Despite not being 100% efficient, we still get through them. Sometimes we actually have a bit of fun, even if it takes a few minutes longer. Shocking, I know.

Oh, and on more than one occasion I have saved the group’s bacon specifically because I was not in melee range.

(never mind, post reappeared)

mahariel.4981:

Since I, Guang and others bulldozed through the entire forum pointing out they were wrong.

I wasn’t aware that anyone had been elected Grand High Arbiter of Right and Wrong when it came to builds.

mahariel.4981:

Range means lower dps and also means being out of boon range.

It also means being out of “dying all the time” range, which is my preference.

mahariel.4981:

Worst case scenario, you aggro the boss away from melee’ers, and I can tell you how annoying it is for Lupicus to get ranged aggro when I’m trying to melee. On the rare occasions I make a group, seeing greatsword on a mesmer is pretty much an instant kick, I did fractals with Emanuel a little while ago, we got to grawl and needed an extra and the moment I saw the phantasmal berserker and heard the laser, I initiated a kick.

Well you’re just so uberUber00ber I’m clearly not worthy to be in your presence. (Honestly, the attitude of some people around here is amazing.)

It’s ALL personal opinion, including the “AI filling your screen is annoying” part.

There are a bunch of classes in this game that use summons or their equivalent. It’s an inherent part of the game.

Seras.5702:

Oh Elixir Gun is a fantastic support kit. It has a 50% uptime healing field, a blast finisher, aoe condition cleanse, and can even dish out some useful team support conditions like weakness, cripple, and poison. Plus, its toolbelt is a stun breaker with aoe regen.

It can fit into just about any build.

I believe it. I’m just not sure how to best handle the changes among the various kits and skills. Are there any guidelines or is it just a matter of rotating to items off cooldown and learning in time when you need what?

mahariel.4981:

Since when is greatsword viable in dungeons?

Since when isn’t (stupid censor) it?

Empathetic Fighter.2065:

Because a game should never be balanced around a non-organized play-mode.

That’s your opinion. Not mine. And he wasn’t talking about “balancing” just removing a trait because he doesn’t like it.

Right, and I think that’s the best use of the signet as well. You just can’t really get away with it in PvP the way you can in WvW. Watched the video briefly where you used it and you just don’t get that kind of time to dance around in PvP.

Sensotix.4106:

troch cooldown increased? just remove pu from the game its useless in tpvp and really really strong in hotjoin which helps nobody

Because tPvP is the only game made in GW2, right? So since you don’t like/use it, it should be removed?

These sorts of comments are why most feedback is (correctly) ignored by the dev team.

Geff.1930:

Fighting against a mesmer is a source of infinite frustration.

It’s supposed to be. That’s what an illusionist-type mage is all about.

All classes can be frustrating. If you don’t feel frustrated playing someone, it usually means you are beating them easily.

Coldtart.4785:

Yet more ‘you don’t need it’ and ‘complaining about nothing’ to defend ascended. If ‘you don’t need it’ and it’s ‘nothing’ then why does it even deserve to exist in the game?

It “deserves to exist” for those who enjoy working towards it.

And, of course, for those who get joy out of complaining about having to “grind” for something they don’t actually have to grind for.

Warriors are OP, period. There’s something severely messed up when a class/build so easy to play can completely shut down other characters. The combination of offense, CC and defense is simply over the top.

The nerfs last patch were a good start, but there’s a long way to go. It would be nice to play a game without 1 or 2 of every single team having someone mindlessly hammer-swinging his way to victory.

redslion.9675:

Well, I’d say a single guy checking mid and harassing the trebber for the whole match might be useful… there is nothing as morale crushing as being attacked by a treb.

Yes there is — manning the treb and seeing you’re hitting guys on the clock tower and realizing that nobody else on your team is going to even go there to contest it before they come take the treb out. Gotta love being a solo player.

Bagel.4598:

We do not need a 5% boost to stats, acquired through being rich or being dedicated to grind.

No, you don’t. So don’t make it, and do what you like instead.

The threads about ascended gear on this forum contain the most overwrought complaining-about-nothing that I’ve ever seen in nearly a decade of playing MMOs.

As a new engi I still struggle with figuring out when and how to use different kits. Any general guidance for a build like this, which is something I might want to run when I get better?

The elixir gun in particular is a bit of a mystery to me, I’m not sure how to take good advantage of it.

Thanks for any tips.

Funny, I don’t think I’d last very long playing that variant in PvP, due to the long CD heal and lack of reliable condition removal. Also, even though I like the scepter a lot, I wouldn’t choose it over sword in a build with so little condition damage.

If you can’t beat ’em, join ’em.

Seriously it’s a lot easier to learn how to counter that sort of build if you know what you’re dealing with. Though obviously your choice if you want to share it or not.

What exact build are you using Locuz?

I actually replaced my staff with GS. I’ve swapped that for sword/pistol before but I find the GS substantially better for my playstyle, because I much prefer playing at range rather than up close. The GS auto-attack does substantial amounts of extra damage, and is extremely useful in downing fleeing opponents. (Especially the ones who think “if you are fighting a PU mesmer you can just run away”, lol.) I also really like the knockback.

Don’t miss the staff (except for chaos storm, which I think is cool.)

Depends on what you are running.

One reason many mesmers favor precision over power is the trait that gives bleeds on crits, which is essential for phantasm builds.

Another is that you can pair precision with condition damage and toughness, but you can’t do the same with power. This matters especially in PvP.

As for the speed issue, I’ve been using centaur, and considering traveler’s runes for PvE/WvW. Speed matters and getting it without fuss is worth the cost to a lot of people (which is why the runes are so costly.)

If there’s a more broken weapon skill in this game than Impale, I don’t want to know what it is. I mean really, on top of doing a lot of damage on a very short CD, they also made it so you can’t really get rid of it?

In theory. But given equal numbers and equal skill levels of players, a swarm of warriors will beat a swarm of almost anything else. That’s pretty much the definition of being overpowered.

It’s quite noble to declare that one will never whine about other builds and so forth, and as I said, it’s certainly more practical to work to find ways to overcome them rather than complaining on the forums. But I think recognizing that certain classes are currently overbuffed and others underbuffed is just being realistic.

There’s a reason that PvP is stuffed to the brim with stunlock warriors and it’s not because people like a challenge.

mango.9267:

When I fight PU staff + scepter/torch mesmers, they usually never kill me. When they’re smart enough to use pistol, I know I’ll lose.

It really depends on what you yourself are fighting. If you run a classic 20/20/30/0/0 PU build with a pistol instead of a torch, you get a lot more offense as you noted, but you also dramatically reduce the defensive capabilities of the build, by giving away over 50% of your stealth uptime and removing a primary source of condition removal. I’ve experimented with it both ways and it’s a definite trade-off.

I find that when going with the pistol I usually must, at a minimum, shift to 10/20/30/10/0 for Mender’s Purity. But it’s still a lot easier to die.

EDIT: I should wait until I’m more awake before posting, as I just noticed you are talking about replacing the staff, not the scepter/torch. But the same basic principle applies: you’re trading defense for offense. I do this myself (though I prefer the GS) but I recognize that I will die more quickly than if I had the staff.

StickerHappy.8052:

I guess all mesmers here in the forums, especially the the frequent ones must be good in pvp.

Well I’m not, and I certainly sympathize. Some very good advice in this thread, though.

The thing I’ve found is that these guys are fairly useless individually and get quite difficult when they gang up, as you experienced. The key then is to avoid the gang. They only have 5 players, just like you.

This is where “time-waster” characters can be useful. If you have one defensive type that can harrass and annoy a point with two warriors on it, that leaves a 4v3 for the other points. Unfortunately it’s hard to do even that. I can manage it with my mesmer sometimes, but not if the warriors are good.

Not sure I agree about warriors not being able to decap on points, Gates. Warriors have plenty of tools to move people off points and mesmers have very limited access to stability.

Overall, call me a whiner, but I do feel that warriors are still overpowered, due to their combination of easy access to damage, CC, heavy armor, high HP and regen. But of course, whining won’t help beat them.

Whenever I’m in hotjoin and see that message pop up, I rush to volunteer. As I see it:

1. I’m guaranteed the win bonus.
2. I get an extra bonus for volunteering.
3. I get more practice in difficult combat situations, which is why I’m in hotjoin to begin with.

Carighan.6758:

That PU Mesmer has be a godlike player to not be useless when enemies stop attacking her directly and instead go for her team members or points/towers/keeps/whatever.

Again, I think people are assuming that all mesmers using PU have the same exact builds, in particular the purely-passive Blackwater style build. Hybrid condition/power or condition/critical builds can still do a fair bit even if the enemy chooses not to engage.

Interesting. I wasn’t aware people actually defended the treb when someone came after it.. since I’ve always found that pretty impossible to do, whether I’m using it or killing the enemy’s. I’d think your only real chance is to ignore it and focus on killing the one killing the treb.

Leo Paul.1659:

The fact that you’ve only been playing the game for 2 months makes it reasonable why you do not understand the OP. I suggest you read it again.

I don’t need to read it again. Every forum of every MMO is filled with complaints from people who play insane amounts of time and get bored of the game, but rather than recognizing that maybe they should take a break and try something else, claim that there’s something wrong with the game.

I find these threads laughable. I’ve been playing the game for over 2 months and have spent at most 2 hours in that time grinding anything (a few champions for a monthly). Still have a ton of stuff to explore and do and expect there’s plenty to keep me busy for at least a year, not counting new stuff that gets added.

Grinding is self-imposed. It’s always the people obsessed with optional gear who then convince themselves that grinding that gear is mandatory and then complain that the game is grindy.

Also, sometimes people just outgrow a game and need to go play a different one.

DoYourBestBear.6810:

@ Qaelyn – when we had previous patches that had a rough balancing, which could be seen from every class being displayed and utilized in competitive gameplay, to a point where those classes are pushed out because of build versus build issues – that is indeed a characterization of power creep.

No. It’s not. Full stop.

You can say it’s a problem, you can say you don’t like it, you can say it has similar results to power creep. But it is not power creep, which has a very specific meaning, referring to a situation where new content is released that is more powerful than old content, leading to both player power and environmental danger increasing on a regular basis.

DoYourBestBear.6810:

Anytime a game devolves into r/p/s that is power creep.

Uh, no. I have no idea why people feel the need to redefine concepts with perfectly well-understood meanings.

Cymerdown’s explanation is correct.

Cute. Thanks.

Curunen.8729:

…cheesing Mimic with mirror blade…

What’s that?

(Cheese is tasty and nutritious.)

If they nerf PU they better nerf all the braindead warrior (and to a lesser extent guardian and thief) builds that are running rampant all over the game even more. PU mesmers are one of the few things that makes all the drooling hambows and the glass thieves at least think twice. The game needs more counterplay, not less.

Curunen.8729:

Almost sold on it.

I wish we could have some sort of alternate spec “bank” or something, to switch between builds easily, including gear.

This is one reason I’m still “stuck” in PvP until I’m sure I like my spec. Well, I got a bit hooked on it also (despite its MANY flaws) but I was drawn to it because you can respec for free in under a minute.

When I’m ready to try a completely different style of mesmer, this will be the direction I go for sure.

Pyro, appreciate someone of your stature around here putting in a kind word for us lowly PUers.

Curunen.8729:

With PU and direct damage and utilities (ie manipulations) from the player (with additional utility/damage from shatters) I get the playstyle I like – lots of vanishing acts, tricking the enemy, combine with say MH sword for “flurry and vanish” – it just ticks all the boxes. It feels like an illusionist rather than a pet or bomber class.

If I could swap out phantasms on weapon sets for direct damage attacks from the player (ie, swap iwarlock for confusing images), I’d be very happy.

Funny you mention this as I’ve actually tried to move towards this style with builds that use Mantra of Pain on autoattack. The problem is that, at least for me, mantras are still too slow and clunky for the damage they do given what they cost in trait points.

Curunen.8729:

Also just because of having prestige/decoy/MI (veil isn’t really necessary with prestige on 24s, unless needed by a group – I’d rather have condition removal/boon strip in pvp or something like signet of domination in wvw) doesn’t mean you are or have to be in stealth all the time – I find myself out of stealth a lot, applying pressure through shatters/direct damage/phantasms, and using stealths to either conceal a burst, heal or break target when under (a lot of) pressure. It’s survivability, which allows you to continuously harass up to 1v3 (depending on enemy skill) on a point, freeing your team up for other tasks.

That’s largely how I try to play as well. And also why I use centaur runes, even though they aren’t ideal for this build – so I can move around faster.

One thing I am now starting to work on is greater use of shattering. It will never be a mainline of the playstyle but can definitely supplement it nicely when used wisely.

I still find AFKers and leavers but definitely fewer than a month ago. So the “dishonorable” system does appear to be working.

And people who quit because others have quit are just as bad, because sometimes they aren’t quits but rather DCs and the game is lost because people gave up.

Thanks. What builds are you running, Zach and WyldKat?

phaeris.7604:

Qaelyn, people prefer that playstyle because it’s easier.

Well, sure glad I wrote all about my personal experiences so you could basically ignore all of it and imply that I’m not being honest.

phaeris.7604:

When a PU mesmer beats me, i’m generally like ‘Just another PU mesmer….meh.’. When a thief/engineer/ele beats me, i’m usually ‘That guy was pretty kitten ed good.’

Whatever lets you sleep at night, I guess.

Well, I don’t find it “facerolly” at all. Maybe I’m just not up to the 00berl33tz skillz of some of you.

You may be right, Zach.

Funny thing is that normally I always take the approach that I should level up a new class to 80 first. In fact I’m doing that with my engineer right now.

I tried to skip this with guardian (only went up to level 10 or so thus far). My reasoning was that it was a more straightforward profession, and also, PvE is all about offense and killing things quickly and I didn’t think I’d get a lot of preparation for playing a defensive character that way.

But I might just be all wet on that.