Guild Wars 2

Genesis.8572:

Ha! “Dragonhunter” is as ‘high concept’ of a term as “Duck Hunter.” Could it possibly refer to someone who hunts dragons? I don’t know. Maybe.

And again you think “high concept” has something to do with quality, or brilliance.

I’m going to ask you to stop embarrassing yourself, because you are making a bad case for everyone who opposes the name. At least there are people among you that know how to make solid arguments and type well-constructed posts. Let them do the talking.

Genesis.8572:

RabbitUp.8294:

ronpierce.2760:

Fenom.9457:

I hope nothing like Mordremslayer because after Mordremoth it’s weird, and promotes one dragon above the others. So whoever said Mordremslayer… NO! :P

It’s high concept. You’ll understand when you’re older.

How old do you need to grow to understand what “high concept” means?

That depends on how condescending you want to be towards the anti-DH name crowd.

RabbitUp.8294:

There’s a fine line between poking fun and providing feedback and straight up insulting someone’s work and intelligence.

Jon Peters should probably keep that in mind when insulting the intelligence of the playerbase by implying that they don’t get the nuance, high concept dragonhunter name.

He didn’t do that, but he would actually be right. You don’t get what high concept means. It’s an actual term. For example, the high concept of Jurassic Park is “dinosaur theme park”. The high concept of Harry Potter is “boy wizard in magical boarding school”.

What he explained was that Chronomancers’ name is a description of what they do. Dragonhunters’ one is more focused on who they are, what their motives are.

That would be more akin to a Ranger. Well, he is a Ranger and befriended an army of ghosts he found in the wilderness.

Gibson.4036:

I’ve noticed an inverse correlation between developer participation and player harshness.

In threads where a developer shows up and joins the dialogue, the snark and rage simmers right down and people get more respectful (there are always stand out bad apples). You’ll see this in economic discussions with Mr. Smith, or the CDIs. Or when Gaile pops in for a little back and forth.

Just an observation.

The discussion turned a lot more aggressive after Jon posted. Just because people misunderstood a specific term they could have easily googled for.

Valky.2574:

I will laugh so much if this ends up killing the class as in every one goes to play a new class i my self will be deleting my 80 guard if the name don’t change since it wont make any since to my Sylvari at all

I will laugh, too, as I will finally have solid proof my pet venus flytrap outsmarts the average gamer.

Necrotize.2974:

because turrets didn’t require investments in power or anything.

The one and only problem

I like the exclusive chronomancer shield, but I would like to see a shield skin (maybe legendary?) based on a realistic watch movement. (google “watch movement” for reference, or click here: http://i.imgur.com/CwJtq3j.jpg)

I find movements to be exceedingly beautiful for something that’s supposed to remain hidden, and with the introduction of the chronomancer, I would like to see this option as a shield skin.

Note: When I saw functional, I don’t mean anything more than a few spinning gears.

No movement, significantly longer cooldowns, can’t crit, can’t receive boons.

I wonder if Necros will be the ones to get the defiance bar. That could be what the new way of spending Life Force is going to be.

PookieDaWombat.6209:

It couldn’t POSSIBLY be that we are poking a little fun at Anet over this name thing right? i mean we must all be seriously kitten here and that is the only reason for the threads filling with all the really bad names.

See, here’s the thing, I think there is a very small number of people seriously upset about the DH name, and the rest of us think it more silly than anything and are having some fun with it all now.

Seriously, lighten up. its all good.

There’s a fine line between poking fun and providing feedback and straight up insulting someone’s work and intelligence.

ronpierce.2760:

Fenom.9457:

I hope nothing like Mordremslayer because after Mordremoth it’s weird, and promotes one dragon above the others. So whoever said Mordremslayer… NO! :P

It’s high concept. You’ll understand when you’re older.

How old do you need to grow to understand what “high concept” means?

Inimicus.7162:

So many of you ignore the maces versus scepters argument.

You ignore the Staff vs Greatsword/Hammer argument. If it was this necessary to restrict weapons to physical and magical roles, we wouldn’t have the Mesmer Greatsword and Revenant Hammer.

The existing skins of staves are at least as ceremonial/ornamental as their shorter scepter counterparts, and only about 3 MIGHT be, useable (visually balanced enough for use) as staves, in melee combat.

I can count a lot more than that. There are skins that feature no baubles of any kind, just a wooden stick with a metal head.

How’s this (http://wiki.guildwars2.com/images/0/04/Guild_Pillar.jpg) not a good enough polearm?

There are even 2 or 3 scythes available.

Rauderi.8706:

I suspect Engi will be last.
…because they have no idea WTF (Win Thru Flamethrower) they’re doing with it yet. =P
The spec reveal was kind of telling about how far they are on it. >_>

They are working on changes to the base class, that’s not necessarily tied to the elite spec.
It’s probably the latter that’s dictating the changes, especially how there’s a heavy focus on more tanky/healing traits, and the fact that the elite spec features a melee weapon.

YuiRS.8129:

Welcome to the life of all minion classes. Enjoy your stay.

You can keep saying that, it won’t make it true. Turrets are currently in a much worse state than any minion type.

@Knox

Inventions has a heavy focus on healing and group support with 6 traits, as opposed to the only 2 turret traits. I would say that’s a pretty clear identity. If anything, turrets are the afterthought.

Black Box.9312:

Yes…? If you’re going to fall down the moral scale, I’d like to think that you’d try to seek power in darker magic. It’s all figurative, of course, but it still makes more sense that way to me.

GW doesn’t really embrace the concept of white and black magic. Guardians are not inherently good and Necromancers are not inherently evil.

Why would a guardian need to change the school of magic they subscribe to according to which foe they face or what state of mind they are in while fighting said foe. If you can use light magic to kills centaurs and whatnot as a vanilla guardian, you can use light magic to commit a Sylvari genocide as a Dragonhunter.

Black Box.9312:

cerulean moth.2743:

Exactly! There’s a lot of room for “Dragon Hunter” to be an excellent addition to the game, and people seem to be ignoring those possibilities. It’s clear the name signifies a more radical/ruthless approach to dragon extermination. I’m hopeful it matches the dark tone that HoT seems to set.

If the name is meant to evoke a darker theme, then it misses the mark, because there’s nothing “dark” about the actual spec. It’s still a light-wielding battlemage that just happens to use a bow and “traps”. It just doesn’t fit.

It’s darker morality-wise. Do you expect a guardian’s power to visually become darker if they behave more ruthlessly?

Gibson.4036:

That’s what his outfit seems designed for.

Just to clarify, I’m not judging anything in any of those pictures for worthiness, just for ridiculousness in combat situations.

I suppose I should remove the Norn. He could be carefully calculating his look to inspire awe and terror.

;)

Don’t worry, I know you weren’t judging them, I was just poking some fun. I know immersion can be important, but honestly, if I saw that Norn walking past me, I would crack a smile. It’s a game, people want to have fun, I would only hope he was using the Princess Wand to compliment that outfit

The 2 announced classes were confirmed in the trailer. Mesmer/Chrono was more obvious, while Guardian/Hunter could only be seen in the background if you were extremely observant. In the same trailer, we also saw Engineer/Hammer, Ranger/Druid and a cloth armour wielding a sword, which could have been an Ele, but since Mesmers exist, it’s not direct confirmation.

At the same time, we only knew the weapon Mesmers and Guardians would get and not their name. For that reason, I expect Ranger and Elementalist to be revealed close to last, since we have a name (and a weapon for Druid).

Gibson.4036:

VodCom.6924:

The only thing you will accomplish by using the actual staves as melee weapons is make GW2 look ridiculous. Which is something none of us want.

What’s ridiculous about the 3rd picture? That’s a manly man. Did you not see the beard?

Bo staves don’t have to be “plain sticks”. And we don’t even know if that’s what Anet is aiming for with melee staves. They could easily go for polearms instead.

macon.4065:

see that’s what I thought off. It just seems that the Dragonhunter utility and main skills seem like repetitions as the other class already have them. The title also is not a great title. I mean we are all Dragonhunters to a tee, their are 7 Elder dragons. So like I was saying perhaps focusing on Healing, Smiting or just the use of Holy would be more productive. Different arms and a different flavor would make it better as well. It just feels like rinse and repeat again. And I don’t really see the value with the same skills, want traps play a Ranger, want a unique shot play a thief, etc etc.

I do want to say something about titles though. See if they went with Smite you could call it a Zealot. If they want more Holy or Smite on a Weapon I’d like to suggest Crusader, Templar or something along that line. A weapon like a bow does not fit this type of character. I mean if your Asian perhaps but Europeans and Americans this isn’t going to fit. Also the only Warrior class that really used a longbow (which by the way is a European Title) was the Samurai or the Ninja. The Ninja fits more to say a Thief class though and the Samurai would be more fitting a Warrior class.

Are you saying that the bow doesn’t fit to a soldier or a hunter? If yes, you are wrong. Or are you saying it doesn’t fit to the concept you came up with? Then come up with a better concept.

And no, we are not all Dragonhunters. We fight the dragons, we don’t hunt them.

Akikaze.1307:

3) Weapon concepts that are finalized. Druid? Elementalists? Necromancers?
The previous 2, chronomancer and dragonhunter, were concepts that were finalized early on during the HoT announcements. Players had spotted Mesmers with shields and Guardians with bows for months. Therefore it’s possible the next one be any of those 3 as their weapons have already been confirmed (or datamined).

4) Professions that are ‘not ready’ by elimination.
Engineer-X’s traits were shown to be only unfinished ideas. Last time Revenant was shown, the class was only half finished. Nothing is known about Thief or Warrior.
Mesmer/Guardian is done, that leaves Ranger, Elementalists and Necromancer as possible candidates.

Engineer belongs to (3). We saw the hammer in the trailer, and he even used skills.

Also, they didn’t reveal Chrono’s traits, so unfinished traits don’t seem to be an issue.

Genesis.8572:

Clearly, if the Dragonhunter is any indication, the Necromancer elite specialization will be called “Shouting Guy.”

And yet “Archer” and “Bowman” were among the community’s suggestions.

Rym.1469:

I believe it’s already set, but I have to agree.
Things like Bimbo Kasmeer staff will make it look ridiculous.

The same can be said for other weapons, like Pinnacle Greatsword.

There are plenty of options even with the current selection, before knowing what HoT might introduce:
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/images/4/43/Ceremonial_Stave.jpg
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/images/f/f7/Bandit_Spire.jpg
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/images/3/39/Deathwish.jpg
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/images/3/3a/Legionnaire_Staff.jpg
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/images/7/70/Final_Rest.jpg

That’s just between the first 20 or so staves: http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Gallery_of_staves

Hammer seems more like a heavy armour staple, to be honest, and it’s a pattern that they repeated with the Revenant.

Only soldier base professions are allowed to wield the hammer, after all.

CureForLiving.5360:

I think Chronomancers kinda raised our expectations a bit, with the new F5 ability and everything. Personally I was expecting all classes to get a new mechanic of some sort.

When Chrono was revealed, there were many complains about how they didn’t get enough stuff to make up for the lack of 3 new primary weapon skills.

I think it’s more that people will complain about everything and anything.

Necrotize.2974:

RabbitUp.8294:

Necrotize.2974:

Shadelang.3012:

I hate to say it. But if you got minions. You know…You KNOW the spec will have to be terrible at everything it does or it will get turret engineered.

Or it will be balanced like every other minion skill and be much less effective than alternatives for obvious reasons. Can’t remember the last time I saw a minion master necro in any game mode. Spirit rangers are uncommon as it is, and I guarantee they’ll almost disappear in SPvP and probably WvW too once they become immobile.

Turrets aside, I really really really don’t want something as boring as minions for my engineer. I love the fast paced switching and utility of kits and I hope they bring something that can compete with or supplement that. Engineers would have a ton of cool skills if they were all balanced around kits as a baseline.

You can’t say they are balanced if they are practically unusable. Balance lies in the middle.

They are balanced to fall in line with Anet’s philosophy, which seems to lean towards non-minion/summon skills are stronger than minion skills due to their inherent skill cap. If the minions are somehow just as good as slotting in another kit, what’s the point of getting that kit if an almost completely AI minion can do just as well?

Utility. The kit grants access to 5 skills.

You realise nobody slotted turrets in their bars over kits before the nerfs, outside of gimmick spvp builds that weren’t even that effective, right? Sure, there were the rare exceptions, like Net Turret, but that was used the same as a one-time stun, with a chance of sticking around and being useful.

And don’t pretend kits are this skill intensive. They are a weapon swap with a different keybind and no cooldown. Nor do summon minions necessarily have to be fire and forget.

There are countless games that did minions right, even if Anet failed. The problem has ever been the AI aspect of the skills. Skillful play is rewarded with less outplaying/counterplaying options; AI on the other hand is dumb.

Jordo.5913:

Hammer is the reason you’ll be in melee in the first place

If you’re an engi, you will get to melee range at some point, Hammer or no Hammer.

Jordo.5913:

and who wants to use bomb and tool kits to replace that Hammer weapon you are getting?

Are they giving us Initiative or Energy to go with the hammer? I have cooldowns and I can’t swap weapons. I’m either using a kit or sitting there autoattacking with the hammer.

Necrotize.2974:

Shadelang.3012:

I hate to say it. But if you got minions. You know…You KNOW the spec will have to be terrible at everything it does or it will get turret engineered.

Or it will be balanced like every other minion skill and be much less effective than alternatives for obvious reasons. Can’t remember the last time I saw a minion master necro in any game mode. Spirit rangers are uncommon as it is, and I guarantee they’ll almost disappear in SPvP and probably WvW too once they become immobile.

Turrets aside, I really really really don’t want something as boring as minions for my engineer. I love the fast paced switching and utility of kits and I hope they bring something that can compete with or supplement that. Engineers would have a ton of cool skills if they were all balanced around kits as a baseline.

You can’t say they are balanced if they are practically unusable. Balance lies in the middle.

GruntSquad.1530:

You did though, otherwise, you can’t become a dragonhunter. Well ok, if you use a kitten-ton of tomes, maybe then, but you get my point. Mesmers also control the flow of battle, he is a conductor and a disruptor. He controls space, now he controls time.

Guardians have a skill that sets themselves on fire. In fact the same skill shoots a fireball. Would you support an entire spec based on Marvel’s Human Torch? That’s as much of a connection there is between mesmer and chronomancer. And mind you, I’m not complaining. In fact, I love both the chronomancer, and I wouldn’t mind the Human Torch clone. I never say no to more options. I still recognise the existence of a logical gap, though.

I do get your point, but I only agree with it to an extent. While there’s merit in preserving the flavour and concept of the class, the same cannot be said about the playstyle. The entire point of this system is to add more options, not enhance the existing ones. It’s natural that when switching from vanilla to elite spec, the class plays differently.

And even then, Dragonhunter retains aspects of the base class. Area denial, support and offence mixed together, healing options.

Ojyh.9842:

Ill-fitting, generic and cheesy totally fit to Dragonhunter. So much that I had to take a moment to know if you were actually arguing in favor or against it.

You could use those terms, but that’s entirely subjective. The point is that you can use the same terms for any of the existing professions, yet people have no trouble with them, only because they appear everywhere, which actually makes them more generic than dragonhunter.

Not to mention that some, like thief, don’t even describe their class very well and only rely on pre-established fantasy cliché to get their point across.

Ojyh.9842:

Also everybody should remember that elite spec will only change like 20% or even less of what your character actually is. So it is always way better to get a name that stays linked to the original profession. Because knowing how elite specs work, we could totally make a Dragonhunter that is " like a judge […] so maybe he uses hammers".

The same can be said for the Chronomancer. You can avoid using any of the new skills and weapon and stick to illusions. Avoid talking Time Warp as your elite, and your only time related skill will be the new shatter.

Ojyh.9842:

And by the way, A.net has always tried to tell us that having a bow doesn’t mean you’re a hunter, having a sword doesn’t mean being a soldier, having a dagger doesn’t mean being an assassin… Why suddenly taking that concept in reverse ?
And even if they were going back to that idea that says having a bow means you are a hunter, I’m now asking you question you asked me. If someone tells you to think about a hunter, will you think about what the GW2 Dragonhunter (as a whole) is ? Probably not…

And yet warriors use the sword to fight like soldiers, and thieves use the dagger to assassinate.

Anet both play their tropes straight and avert them. Just look at the hammer. Warriors/Guardian/Engineers (from what was shown so far) use it as a heavy-hitting melee weapon, while Revenants as a casting one. Same deal with Greatsword.

The fact that using a bow doesn’t necessarily make you a hunter in this game doesn’t mean that no class will ever use it as a hunting weapon.

Black Box.9312:

The chronomancer and druid both make sense, because they define what the spec is and what it does. A chronomancer is a manipulator of time, and a druid is a mage of nature. But dragonhunter just feels wrong because it has little to no relation to what the spec is or how it works.

If you didn’t know that mesmers have that one time related elite skill, chronomancer wouldn’t make sense either. Creating illusions and causing hallucinations is not exactly related to controlling the flow of time.

You could make an entire Guardian elite spec based on Marvel’s Human Torch based on such a connection, since Guardians have a skill that sets themselves on fire.

As for how describing what the spec does, how does “hunter” not hint at the introduction of bow and traps?

There are krait Witches you encounter in events.

Ojyh.9842:

You’re right in a sense. But they are all very classical and unavoidable archetypes you find in any RPG, that’s why they’re here. We automatically link them to a playstyle and a specific type of character. Which is not particularly the case for our Dragonhunter (THAT specific one, which should be highly related to Guardians).
Also you shouldn’t understand Guardian the way you do considering a class in an fantasy world.
But when you look at magical professions you realize that your argument falls short.

Anyway if that was the only thing going wrong with the Dragonhunter I guess it wouldn’t make so much noise. The problem is that it goes way beyond that.

So, it’s ok to use vague, generic, ill-fitting, or cheesy names as long as they were used in DnD before?

Let’s forget the lore and the dragons for a second. Let’s say you presented a person with 2 classes, the Hunter and the Arbiter. What do you think they could guess an Arbiter does, from the name alone?

“Well, he’s like a judge, those have gavels, so maybe he uses hammers?”
“Actually, he lays down traps and shoots a bow.”

nexxe.7081:

RabbitUp.8294:

nexxe.7081:

Well, i guess that’s it. The name won’t be changing. It’s a silly name, with the majority against it, but it’s their game.

As Harvest suggested, it’s not about fighting for morality, so it doesn’t make sense. We’re all essentially dragon hunters in our fight against Modremoth, and other dragons. Many other names would’ve been better.

We are not all dragon hunters. Hunters don’t defend themselves or the land from a threat, which is what we are doing against the dragons. Hunter are on the offensive, the ones that stalk their prey and prepare the traps for it. Hunters don’t fight, they murder.

And not all professions/players share the notion that the only way to fight the dragons is to eliminate them, their minions and the entire Sylvari race.

..because the Pact isn’t actively hunting Modremoth, right? Heart of Thorns is exactly all about that. Didn’t you play Season 2?

Modremoth and the dragons are threatening Tyria. The Pact is defending themselves against the Dragons, not as a preemptive measure, but because it is certain Mordemoth is going to attack.

That’s not called hunting, it’s called fighting. A hunter is not threatened by the deer they kill, they do it for food, profit or sport. It’s completely different. We don’t call soldiers fighting a war “hunters”, do we?

From what was revealed already, the key difference here are how Dragonhunters treat Sylvari, Mordemoth’s minions, who are not, as a race, threatening Tyria. The devs spelt it out for everyone how they wanted to draw parallels with Witch Hunters.

MiniEquine.6014:

This isn’t about making it part of the core Guardian class. I popped on the forums this morning to literally post what OP did about tomes as kits for a future elite specialization.

There would obviously need to be reworks, and that could be done now especially if they’re considering removing them from the game as they are. Some ideas I had were a long-range light-based tome with blinds, a short-range fire-based tome with burning (maybe smoke), a mid-range healing tome with regens, and a mid-range support tome with condition clearing and boons.

That’s why I said:

Kits are way to integral to the Engineer’s identity, pretty much a secondary class mechanic. I can accept tome kits as the base of a future elite spec, but not as part of vanilla guardian.

There’s not much merit in discussing a future second specialization at this point, though. It won’t happen any time soon, and we still don’t know everything there is to know about the current ones yet.

Please rewatch the trailer. You will see that those drones don’t just follow the engineer, they are attached to his model. No summon in game can keep up with your character this closely.

They even react to his animations by floating a bit higher when he lifts the hammer. And they are not present during the fight.

They just rendered turrets irrelevant, do you really think they are going to make a specialization of spirit weapons? Balance issues aside, specs are about giving classes something they lack, and you think Engineers will get a second summon type?

I agree it should stay a minor.

However, if they were to move it, it could be merged with the grandmaster trait, the one that makes it a blast finisher.

Most of those suggestions are too similar to Gadgets and Elixirs mechanically.

If you are looking for a versatile class, you are good.

If you are looking for a fun class, you are golden. Engineers have spoiled me to the point that, apart perhaps from Elementalists, I can’t enjoy any other class.

My advice would be, now that you are still levelling up and learning the class, don’t shoehorn yourself into a single build. Engineers have kits which are like additional built-in weapons. Familiarise yourself with them. You can literally change your utilities every day you log in, since engies have tons of options, and it will both keep things fresh and help you learn the class easier.

Any memorable moments of getting that last tiny bit of exp to hit 80?

Of my two mains, my Sylvari dinged while picking blueberries. Quite fitting, since he has the blueberry skin colour.

My other main hit 80 after rezzing someone in WvW. I didn’t even know you get exp for that.

nexxe.7081:

Well, i guess that’s it. The name won’t be changing. It’s a silly name, with the majority against it, but it’s their game.

As Harvest suggested, it’s not about fighting for morality, so it doesn’t make sense. We’re all essentially dragon hunters in our fight against Modremoth, and other dragons. Many other names would’ve been better.

We are not all dragon hunters. Hunters don’t defend themselves or the land from a threat, which is what we are doing against the dragons. Hunter are on the offensive, the ones that stalk their prey and prepare the traps for it. Hunters don’t fight, they murder.

And not all professions/players share the notion that the only way to fight the dragons is to eliminate them, their minions and the entire Sylvari race.

Knighthonor.4061:

RabbitUp.8294:

Kits are way to integral to the Engineer’s identity, pretty much a secondary class mechanic. I can accept tome kits as the base of a future elite spec, but not as part of vanilla guardian.

Kits could be renamed to be more general a term for all classes, such as sets.

It’s not really about the name. Engineers were balanced around kits and kits influence their playstyle the most.

A guardian with kits would be a heavy armoured engineer with a fixed tool belt and the ability to weapon swap.

At least ele’s elemental weapons try to be unique.

Silhouette.5631:

Rabbit, there ARE plenty of traits that give damage to X weapon. and they are all OPTIONAL. They don’t punish you for using a trait line together with over half the weapons available to your class.

P.S. Big game hunter. Still usable with longbow. Pure of Sight, still not useable with everything else

P.P.S. Remember at the reveal of the new trait system how they said they didn’t want players to feel bad for picking traits? Yeaaaaaaah this is kinda that thing

Oh, it’s a minor trait? Then, yeah, I agree with you. They went to great lengths to make sure minor traits are compatible with all builds, and that was something they focused on during the trait revamp video.

Maybe they could switch it with Hunter’s Fortification.

There are tons of traits that give bonus damage to X weapon. It’s the same deal here.
It’s even compatible with all of guardian’s ranged options.

Kits are way to integral to the Engineer’s identity, pretty much a secondary class mechanic. I can accept tome kits as the base of a future elite spec, but not as part of vanilla guardian.

I really doubt drones are actual minions, or only minions. If you watch the trailer, they seem attached to the character model.

What’s the cooldown on Signet of Courage?

Nike.2631:

RabbitUp.8294:

Which means nothing, besides a type of lamp.

Kids these days.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Arc_Light

Specifically~
“Arc Light, and sometimes Arclight, is the code name and general term for the use of B-52D/F/G Stratofortress as a close air support (CAS) platform to support ground tactical operations assisted by ground-control-radar detachments of the 1st Combat Evaluation Group”

In other words Arclight means to bomb the holy crapcakes out of something from relatively nearby. Like, “notify Rand-McNally… we’re gonna need new maps” levels of firepower.

And what does that have to do with the world of Tyria?