Guild Wars 2

rapthorne.7345:

The prepurchase bundle includes free access to the base game to new players.

No where does it state that this will be the case after prepurchases, and I believe the FAQ even specifies that this is a preorder-exclusive offer for new players.

This is what the FAQ says:

Q: Do I have to own Guild Wars 2 to play the expansion?
A: Yes, but Guild Wars 2: Heart of Thorns includes the Guild Wars 2 core game.

Guild Wars 2: Heart of Thorns includes the core game, therefore it’s a standalone. No pre-purchase exclusivity clause, either.

I’m sure in due time the FAQ will change without notice to reflect whatever new deal Anet comes up with.

Nike.2631:

Vicariuz.1605:

Where would you like people with valid complaints to interact?

Here, of course. I’d just be deliriously happy if they weren’t trying to pushing blatant Appeal to the Masses fallacies to lend themselves weight that they don’t actually have.

Are we doing this nonsense again? For what it’s worth, it was the other party that started using terms like “vocal minority”.

Minority or not, they made a thread on reddit to “boycott” the xpac. It’s not possible for anyone of us to determine whether they outnumber those that pre-purchased.

Nike.2631:

Yes. Yes it is. Which is barely even related to updating the FAQ so people reading it now and in the future don’t get mislead.

The problem is not the fact that FAQ were updated. It the difference between the 2 answers to the same question. The first one was what boosted those sales a few months ago, when newer players were convinced they had to buy the core game.

So, the FAQ were changed to reflect the current situation. After they made money from this con, they changed their business plan to something that clashed with what was promised and completely devalued the product they sold to those players, and they didn’t even leave a note in the FAQ to communicate this change.

If it weren’t for wayback machine, those players would be starring at the page and thinking they probably imagined reading that answer in the first place.

More importantly, the way they are handling this even now doesn’t even begin to resemble any form of compensation.

evoRobot.4019:

And they said they will compensate users within a specific time frame. Stop hating.

Sweet, sweet compensation

Zenthieth.9431:

What about people complaining that you can’t play content you bought? Well the same held true for the base game at launch, 8 character classes to divide up among 5 character slots. Finally, something a guild mate of mine said a couple of months ago:
There’s no guarantee that you will use a new character slot if it came with the expansion for a Revenant.

It’s different. Each and every player was able to potentially access all classes with GW2. They could end up rolling 5 Mesmers, but it didn’t matter, what I mattered. Nobody was locked out of a class, even if they couldn’t have one of each at the same time. They could make a test character and delete it, but it was their option.

With HoT and without an additional slot, there will be people who are unable to access Revenant in any way, unless they delete one of their existing characters or purchase a new slo. Even if they would have used the slot for a core class, they were still given potential access to the Revenant.

Zenthieth.9431:

However this expansion isn’t standalone, you need the base game (yes, packaging the base game with the expansion is questionable, but please don’t focus on that here).

That’s not true. You can’t buy the core game at all right now. Pre-purchasing HoT is the only way to access GW2.

And according to their updated FAQ, HoT includes GW2 core. Not bundled together as a gift, the “expansion” includes the core game. That’s as standalone as it gets.

dml.9764:

Anet has said in other threads that the xpac is $50 and the core game is bundled in free.

Which is a blatant lie. Neither GW2 nor HoT are currently available for purchase, but only as a bundle.

Claiming that GW2 is worth $0 and HoT the full $50 is no less preposterous than claiming that everything is free, and we are only really playing for Elementalist’s specialization. They are products with no commercial value, and marketers are free to arbitrarily attach an estimated prize to them to make the sale look more attractive.

You do have a valid case, and it’s one I supported in other threads. However, according to the old FAQ, you would need the base game to be able to buy and play HoT, not that you would get it for free.

So, asking for a discount to the $45 HoT price equal to the amount you paid for GW2 is fair (provided the purchase occurred within a certain time frame that Anet will have to determine).

However, they seem to be willing to handle this differently, and it’s not a nice way at all.

1. After you buy HoT, you can submit a ticket, and if they respond, they’ll probably accept to “refund” your account by deleting it, and letting you make a new account to apply the code you’ll get from HoT. Enjoy.

2. This is the first expansion after 3 years from this game’s launch. What you describe is what didn’t happen. The rest is in the front page.

Ain’t Anet lovely?

No, they just charge you for nothing.

Di Nguyen.5968:

Maybe you should learn to read things in context. You know, CONTEXT. When someone asks a question regarding whether the expansion is standalone and Anet says no, they are telling the truth.

Because you know, by DEFINITION an “expansion” is something which, oh I don’t know, expands upon something?

If it was standalone, it wouldn’t be an “expansion” right?

Taken in the context of what was being asked, the answer was true.

Try this logic test. Would it be true if they said you didn’t need the core game? No it wouldn’t right?

You’re just mad for no reason. It isn’t a verbal loophole, you’re just outraged because you want to find a reason to justify your outrage. You made an illogical assumption when you read that comment.

Prolly did pretty poorly on the SATs when it came to reading comprehension amiright?

You are making absurd claims, but I’ll bite. Currently, their FAQ specifically say that Guild Wars 2: Heart of Thorns INCLUDES the Guild Wars 2 core game (http://imgur.com/1h0wSaL.png)

Since you are so good at reading comprehension, would you mind explaining to me how a product that includes the base game and cannot be bought separately is not standalone?

Di Nguyen.5968:

You need to learn to read bro. Nothing in the quote you stated contradicts Anets decision to include the base game with the expansion.

That is:

(1) the expansion isn’t a stand alone game (true);
(2) therefore you need the base game to play the expansion content (true).

Their inclusion of the base game with the expansion doesn’t contradict their previous statement in anyway.

That is:

they didn’t say you had to PAY for the base game in addition to the expansion.

Right?

Yeah… getting outraged for no reason other than your poor reading comprehension… sigh…

There is no expansion. You cannot buy the expansion. The only thing you can buy is a product that combines GW2 and HoT.

In fact, you cannot buy the base game any more either. It was removed after pre-purchase began.

So, in the end, there’s only one single available product, that is a standalone game and a couple of optional cosmetic upgrades to that product. And even if what you said was even remotely true, it’s still a shady practice to use misleading information to grab a few sales.

By the way, they would have no reason to sneakily change their FAQ, if that was their intention from the beginning.

https://help.guildwars2.com/entries/105801626-Guild-Wars-2-Heart-of-Thorns-FAQ
Q: Do I have to own Guild Wars 2 to play the expansion?
A: Yes, but Guild Wars 2: Heart of Thorns includes the Guild Wars 2 core game.

Xar.1387:

As i wrote:
“A fool and his money are soon parted.”

Same way u can go to the steam, and buy there some games before holidays sale.
And then complaing about that u paid few times more than others.

Life Deal with it.

Seeing as how you were presumably parted from your money by buying this expansion, you are one to talk.

On the other hand, the new players that got GW2 during the $10 sales were specifically told to do so. http://web.archive.org/web/20150401200009/https://help.guildwars2.com/entries/105801626-Guild-Wars-2-Heart-of-Thorns-FAQ

Q: Do I have to own Guild Wars 2 to play the expansion?
A: Yes. Guild Wars 2: Heart of Thorns is an expansion to Guild Wars 2 and not a stand-alone campaign, and therefore it requires the base game to play.

So, you are honestly trying to support that a corrupt-to-the bone company that directly lies to get more sales is above criticism, and these players should just “deal with it”?

Xar.1387:

These sales was cool, cause people was able to buy it cheap, and play a game before HoT comes out. Lvl some characters and stuff like that, to be rdy for HoT. But alot of them probably knew that basic game will be much cheaper or even Anet will giveaway it with HoT. What Anet already did. But if some1 did not expect this then… he’s not smart for sure. Sorry.

They specifically said HoT will not be a standalone game, it will be an expansion that will require the base game. You are defending a lie, and you are blaming those that fell for it, instead of the company that greedily made it up.

Xar.1387:

IMO the only stupidity is to buy a basic game, when u already know that expansion is coming out. It was obvious that they’ll announce some 2 in 1 stuff, or something like that. Anyway, I was writing about it months ago… ’ -’

People goes zomie… The end of humanity. Its really worrying what’s going on with today’s ppls. They’re unable to think.

Anet themselves said that HoT would require the base game and conveniently offered sales throughout the last few months.

Are you implying those people are stupid for trusting that Anet would not lie to get some dirty last minute sales? Perhaps you are right.

And then you’ll get justified complaints from the Deluxe buyers, who will claim the main reason they paid more was the slot, and they don’t think their mini Rytlock is worth that much now. You could offer them 2 slots, but they could still say they only need one for the new class.

It’s pretty much too late now.

Nuzt.7894:

While that is also true, this is the direct result of ignoring a pretty big issue (obviously by the number of posts). Ignoring a problem doesn’t make it go away, it enrages people and does more harm then good.

Hey, at least the Dragonhunter name feedback thread was buried. Similarly, maybe they count on giving us something else to keep us busy after this.

upsdn.5426:

The OP wasn’t asking for the expansion for free. I know it was hard to read, but he/she was asking whether an “upgrade” option would be available eventually. (No offense intended to nJuSt.9182—I think a few words were missing from your post. But I think I understood you correctly.)

OP specifically mentioned the Gem Store. Gems can be bought by ingame gold and that would mean one would be able to buy the expansion for gold, instead of real money.

Jongi.7612:

You really want them to pay the original price plus the expansion and thats not how you make money as a business.

No. I want Anet to offer them GW2 + HoT for $50, and offer me a separate option for just HoT.

There are 2 layers here. New players get GW2 for free, AND veteran players cannot buy HoT alone.

Nightshade.2570:

Actually if you just bought the game four days ago, from what I have seen you should contact support. If you paid full price through this website there is a good chance they will work with you to upgrade you to HOT.

From what other players posted, they are willing to refund your existing account (and the GW2 purchase) and let you make a new GW2+HoT account with the code.

It goes without mention that you lose your characters/gold/gems.

Will Lucky.8703:

Looking at the price of PC games in the past two years, yes this is in line with expectations actually.

HoT is looking nowhere near close to being a full game. All things aside, they still refuse to give us a less vague description of the new content, or even a release date, yet still ask for a pre-purchase at full price.

evoRobot.4019:

The core game comes free with the pre order, look it up on their official facebook.

Free for $50 and only if you don’t already own it.

evoRobot.4019:

Yeah it’s great we all bought the game early but they are helping new players, and not obligated to offer us anything. 3 LS and EoTM has been a blast.

Blast or not, we paid for it.

And now, we are not obligated to continue to be their main supporters. It’s strictly a matter of principle, not money. When City of Heroes was shut down, I had spent about $1100 over the years. And I would be happy to spend double that if the game was still running.

But when a company implies that they grew accustomed to milking their loyal customers, so they instead focus on getting fresh blood, I feel the need to point the fact out. And I’m someone who did some whiteknighting for Anet in the past.

And that’s without mention the fact that they LIED about the whole thing, stated that HoT would not be a standalone and would instead require the base version just to grab some cash with their recent sales. And now, they ninja-edit their FAQ and try to charge those same players again. And their “compensation” is allowing them to start a new account and let their existing progress go to waste, which apart from a time investment, might also include gem purchases.

Anet is showing to be either extremely greedy or extremely stupid, and honestly, I’m not having it either way.

zenleto.6179:

Which is exactly what a gift-with-purchase is. Congratulations for having some knowledge.

It’s not a gift, then. There’s no way to get GW2 for free without getting the xpac, there’s no way to get the xpac by itself, so we don’t know what it’s real value is. It’s a bundle, not a gift.

Basically this:

Actually, the expansion is FREE. You only pay 50 bucks for the glider models, everything else is completely free; a kind present from Anet to their whole community.
See how stupid this is? It’s a bundle, you can’t get the base game for free without pre-ordering HoT. Just because some marketing person slaps arbitrary price tags and “estimated values” on these products, the deal doesn’t change.

Marketers can price their products whatever they want. So, if they told you everything is a gift, would you buy the $50 gliders?

And what are you afraid of? You are paying full price as it is, you are not getting any bonuses. At the “worst” case scenario, if ultimate and deluxe are limited, you will be stuck with the standard package, whose price will only go lower.

Getefix.9150:

they have access to it… if they buy the xpack, they gain the ability to make a revenant

You can’t make a Revenant without a character slot. Telling me to delete an existing character is a “batteries not included” deal. You are trying to sell me a different product, you even present it as a standalone. Yet, one of its features doesn’t “work” by itself.

evoRobot.4019:

The core game for free to new players is a nice gesture.

Show me the link where I can download the base game for free. Hint: There isn’t one.

It’s not a nice gesture. It’s a product included in a bundle and given an arbitrary estimated value of $0.

evoRobot.4019:

I would say the vets still have the advantage, they were able to play and progress throughout the game for 3 years.

And they paid $60 for that “privilege”, Anet didn’t do them any favours.

zenleto.6179:

Yes, I KNOW this. It’s clearly set up so that its a gift for new customers only. Existing customers don’t need it.

It’s a “gift” behind a 50 dollar paywall. It’s only a marketing gimmick and nothing else.

IIvIIozzie.9250:

I’ve never seen such an ungrateful fanbase in my life. They are giving you the base game completely free and you people are still complaining! You guys are incredible…..

They are giving us nothing. The fact that we are here means we already have the base game.

In fact, what they did was lie to try and rob a lot of new players of their money by selling them the base game on discount, then change their FAQ and try to charge them again for the exact same product.

DevilLordLaser.8619:

GW2 released with five character slots and eight professions.

There’s nobody who bought GW2 and couldn’t play all classes. Even if they couldn’t have one character of each class at the same time, they still had access to each one of them, up to 5 different at the same time.

With HoT, there are several people who cannot access Revenant at all, unless they buy an additional slot.

MiniEquine.6014:

This example isn’t perfect. Technically, your BOB you have at home has a bunch of aesthetic features and unlocked content on it for having been used throughout the years. You can pick up a new BOB that comes with its own expansion, so you have a new BOB with nothing on it but the expansion, and you have the old BOB with all your old stuff. Or, you can buy the expansion and attach it to your BOB at home, but in removing the expansion from new BOB you need to break the new BOB.

It’s still mostly correct, but it needs to be worded different.

It still results in me tossing part of the new BOB away, which is a waste of money and reduces the value for money of new BOB.

The point remains that whatever I did or did not do with my BOB is my deal and I paid for it with my first purchase.

Now, the company tries to sell a different product, but because I’m an existing customer, I’m forced to discard a product I already own, or part of the new product, which I’m still paying for.

Would it be reasonable for Sony to require that you open up your PS3 case and stuff the innards of a PS4 inside, but still ask for the full price? While new owners get a fresh, new PS4 and a free PS3?

ThreeHitDown.2169:

Yes but werent we as veteran players getting free content for 3 years that newcomers are never gonna experience?

And that’s precisely why newcomers don’t have to pay $60 like lot of us did.

And even then, it’s pretty outrageous to claim a few events (most of which are recurring in some way) and LS are worth that much, while the rest of the base is game is worth $0.

Actually, the expansion is FREE. You only pay 50 bucks for the glider models, everything else is completely free; a kind present from Anet to their whole community.

See how stupid this is? It’s a bundle, you can’t get the base game for free without pre-ordering HoT. Just because some marketing person slaps arbitrary price tags and “estimated values” on these products, the deal doesn’t change.

briggah.7910:

You pad full price and have gotten content for years for free. Content that you won’t ever see coming back and new players didn’t experience. What don’t you get about that statement. You got more than any new person will ever get.. OMG

Let me make this really easy for you. GW2 launched at $60. At that price, we got the base game, and any other additional content like LS and events.

HoT is now $50 and includes both the base game and the expansion.

So, a veteran will pay $110 in total for the base game, the expansion and the added fluff (LS+events). A new player will only play $50 for the expansion and while they will miss out on the fluff, they will receive a little present by getting the base game for free.

See the difference? We PAID for the extra content. And on top of that, even if nobody forced the loyal customers to buy gems, in the end of the day, those were the ones that paid Anet’s bills, whether they just wanted the gems or they consciously supported the game’s development. And it’s them whose face Anet chose to spit in.

Jerus.4350:

I’m curious how the Med Kit will turn out on the missing details, if between Speedy Kits and the Med Kit swiftness how the uptime will be?

New med kit offers perma swiftness alone.

Banumiel.1926:

Wow! Is finally a great kit!
The second skill with cooldown 5 is a wonderful help to keep condis under control. The problem can be a condition stack burst, but the combo: mortar kit + runes of Lyssa solves this part.

We actually get 2.5 sec of resistance on #5 for condition spikes.

guildabd.6529:

No, but I can expect it heal 200 or 300 at least.

First of all, we don’t know what gear the devs had equipped, so the numbers are not indicative.

Second, the rest of the skills on the med kit heal for 645 each, you want a 0 cd skill to heal for almost half that? It’s 91 base +10 for each boon the ally has, so you are probably looking at something around 120.

In any case, you don’t receive any healing from that skill, so they expect you to only realistically use it with a support build and healing power gear.

LucasCorso.3651:

I will lose 80% enjifun on www without Speedy Kits. And i think that this game will die for me after 23 june.

Perma-swiftness was moved to Medkit

Perma swiftness, 4 additional low cooldown heals, 4 condi cleansers, resistance on #5. Not to mention free AoE condi cleansing proc every 10 sec if you pick inventions.

Yeah, it’s good.

Seems plausible. Signets have been brought up a lot, but the only real argument was that Engis are the only class that don’t have them. Since Revenants are a thing and Signets don’t really work with them, as their slot skills are tied to a legend, there’s bound to be at least one profession without Signets after HoT, which brings us back to square one.

The only exception would be if Engis do indeed get Signets and Revenants get 3 utilities per legend plus 5 Signets compatible with all legends.

The leaked hammer skills had a heat mechanic tied to them. It’s possible that this was meant to be similar to Revenant’s energy bar, so that weapon skills build up heat that is used to fuel utilities, including perhaps Upkeeps. In any case, Upkeeps seem to suffer from the same problem as Signets, in that they are too passive.

Ankushp.7245:

It reduces races to mere skins with no other impact on gaming…..

And that’s exactly what races should be.

Harnel.6810:

We don’t know if they are – Speculation says it could go either way.

The picture of Ele’s specialization only showed 11 trees, 5 for skills (1 for each skill type), 5 for traits (1 for each specialization), and the 1 elite specialization. Then, again, it could still be WIP.

Engies are already the profession with access to the most fields in game. They are only missing dark and ethereal fields.

Arantheal.7396:

We have poor – if any – stability, and the new trait system doesn’t look like it improves our condi-clears (just giving us additional effects for cleared condis)

We do get a minor trait that removes 1 condition when you use a heal skill. Depending on the ICD, it could make Med Kit worthwhile as a condi-clear.

There’s also that trait that halves condi duration when your health drops low.

Genesis.8572:

It’s not as if you have been helpful in any regard for civil discussion either.

If you want to blame me for the situation, do so. It won’t make you right, but it will give me a good laugh.

In fact, I did suggest you narrow down the list of preferred names to a selection at least the people of this thread agree upon, so if a poll is ever made by Anet, that list can be considered. I don’t see any effort made towards that end. In fact, I don’t see any effort made at all, besides endless repetitive arguments from people trying to convince the opposite party.

My stance was clear from the beginning. I understand why the name was picked, I have no problem if it remains unchanged, but I would like Seeker better. And as it is, Dragonhunter is the current official name, and Anet hasn’t shown any interesting in changing that.

Mordeus.1234:

But not all nobles were knights and not all nobles hunt.

So some nobles were knights and some knights hunt. There’s even a mention of Sir Tristan in the link. Saying no knight ever hunted is false.

The invention of the ‘fair terms’ of hunting was attributed by Malory and others to the Arthurian knight Sir Tristram, who is seen both as the model of the noble huntsman, and the originator of its ritual:
As he (Sir Tristram) grew in power and strength he laboured in hunting and hawking – never a gentleman that we ever heard of did more. And as the book says he devised good fanfares to blow for beasts of venery, and beasts of the chase and all kinds of vermin, and all the terms we still have in hawking and hunting. And therefore the book of venery, of hawking and hunting, is called Sir Tristram’s. Therefore all gentlemen who bear old (coats of) arms ought to honour Sir Tristram for the goodly terms that gentlemen have and use, and shall until Doomsday, that through them all men of respect may distinguish a gentleman from a yeoman and a yeoman from a villein.

As it was said before, the Dragonhunter has become a meme and its’ pretty hard to kill a meme.

It’s pretty hard to take it seriously, too.

Arrk.4102:

But none of the knights did any hunting.
The problem most people have with DH is the connection between it and the core Guardian class.
The connection between the archetypical knight and slaying dragons is there. But then there is no connection between knights and game hunting. There is a really tenuous connection between knights and witch hunting, but that’s stretching it. But people are asking for connection between Guardian and Dragons. Not between the archetypical knight and the dragons.

What? Of course they did. Knights were nobles, and hunting was a pretty popular sport among nobility.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medieval_hunting

Bezagron.7352:

I’m finding this thread just going around in circles

I’ve been reading the last 2 pages, the same exact arguments were made 20 pages ago. This is pretty smart on Anet’s side, letting the storm rage in its little teacup; by the time we get more juicy news, everyone will have eventually moved on.

Obtena.7952:

I don’t suggest a way to reach that point. I guess the fact you asked means you didn’t get the point. I encourage everyone to continue proposing whatever names they like, even the most preposterous ones.

I got your point just fine. I guess you didn’t get mine. And don’t try to be aggravating for no reason.

The only thing you will get out of it are 100 different name, basically the same ones posted during the first couple of days. You can go back to the first 5 pages and copy the lists.

The point of this thread should have been to help narrow down the selection, not increase it further. If the dream of a final poll becomes more than a dream, the last thing we need is a 2-page list of names.

Obtena.7952:

So we all come to a name that everyone agrees with? No? Anyone get that point?

How do you suggest we reach that point? This very thread of 15 people can’t agree on a name, how do you pick a name the majority of the community likes?

Arrk.4102:

Welcome, friends. I’m Karl McLain, and today we’ll be talking about the guardian’s new elite specialisation: the dragonhunter—a ferocious big-game hunter that specialises in ranged combat and back-line support.

I don’t see anything about no motives.

Leo G.4501:

No where is it implied the Reaper’s motives align with any of the movie blockbuster killers. Only the style of their attacks. But most importantly, none of that is reflected in game.

Where is it implied that Dragonhunter’s motives align with big game hunter’s motives?

Either show me the exact quote, or give this argument a rest.

And you can’t say it is reflected in the game because it’s the name of an optional trait. That’s as far-fetched of an argument as it gets. An entire profession is called Thief, yet nobody even though to suggest their motives in-game should align with real life thieves.

Ojyh.9842:

don’t expect to convince us that the Reaper is as much ftting Necromancer as Dragonhunter fits Guardian.

I never said that. Don’t try to judge my opinion if you can’t even understand it. In fact, I said the exact opposite, that neither name fits that well and that the same arguments people here use to reject Dragonhunter can be just as easily applied to Reaper.

But please, stop believing you’re giving perfectly objective and irrefutable arguments…

What makes you think I believe that?

Also, don’t go into mechanical discussions too much, because we’re not discussing how the spec works, it’s quite off topic.

This has to be a joke. I was the one that asked people to stay on the topic of discussing the name in the first place.

selan.8354:

actually no i want to be able to unlock all my skills through wvw not pve maps where i have to farm some boring mobs for each class i wanna play in wvw. i want to be able to unlock all my skills for wvw without being forced to play boring pve! i think pve is very boring and i tried it. i ran a few fractals ran a few dungeons but i havent even gotten my ascended armor cause fariming for mats is even more boring! let me just buy the skills ill even pay gems.
just no pve!! ill have to play pve for days to get all my skills for each class… i log into gw2 for good fights good zergbusts good organized wvw raids with my guilds. i dont care about anything else.

I don’t log in to do skill challenges, either. Nobody does.

Like I said, there are 13 skill challenges in WvW maps. You can do those. Ask anet to have those reward with 5 hero points each. Or to add more skill challenges to WvW maps.

It’s not fair if you get hero points for playing your preferred mode. PvE doesn’t get hero points for doing dungeons or fractals.