You’re making assumptions. I’m simply going by what the devs told us. Big game hunter was the inspiration AND it’s the name of a trait. The point is, big game hunters hunt for a reason and that reason isn’t Justice. So why mention it at all?
Because it was a source of inspiration. You are the one who keeps making it bigger than that. No dev made a connection between Dragonhunters and the motivation of a big game hunter.
And since when the name of an optional trait defines the morality of a class?
And there’s no Jason Voorhees trait in there. Also, there’s no Jason Voorhees loaded motive to why the Reaper does what he does. The only resemblence is that the Reaper is slow, emphasized by the speed of its attacks.
So, you are ok taking only relevant characteristics from an existing fantasy figure, but when it comes to big game hunter, it’s all or nothing, huh?
Jason Voorhees has a lot more strongly defined motives than a person hunting a giraffe.
“Dragon Hunter” name feedback
Get off your high horse, I was only saying that my argument against the name is unrelated to the traps.
So, why would you respond to me who was talking with another poster about traps? If you felt the need to make your opinion known without adding anything to the conversation, I’m not the one ridding a high horse.
No, they originally said that they were based on big game hunters. They started saying the witch hunter thing afterwards when people realized it was stupid.
Yes, they are based on big game hunters. Like Reapers are based on Jason Voorhees and the Pyramid Head.
To be based on something doesn’t mean that something is a perfect parallel.
There’s just nothing about the Guardian that fits it. That’s like saying a Paladin would suddenly become an Archer/Hunter/Ranger/etc because there’s a huge threat. WHY?
For the same reason a Master Illusionist starts controlling the flow of time.
AoE debuff shouts on necromancers vs DPS/condition traps on guardians. The former seems much more appropriate for its respective class considering that necromancers are known fairly well for debuffing.
My issue with the traps isn’t that they don’t fit the theme. My issue is that traps in general are based on terrible mechanics and I would rather take literally any other utility set.
“Dragon Hunter” name feedback
Incidentally, Necromancers complain a lot more than Guardians ever did about their spec, mechanics-wise. And that’s an objectively bigger issue than how cool or fitting the name is for either class.
Not to mention you are supporting Shouts being one more of the same thing the class already has, when specs were about getting something new.
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But it does work. It just works differently. It’s not like the Reaper doesn’t get a scythe, on the contrary. It is the Necromancer spec that gets it by default no matter what weapon you decide to use.
If you can be this lenient about Reaper, be lenient about all specs. The truth remains that the same argument you are using could have been used to support a rifle/turret Reaper.
My problem has always been the aspect of the spec being tied to “big game hunting” which then leaves it open to incorporate other definitions of what hunters do which Guardian really doesn’t embody.
This whole “big game hunter” has gotten out of hand. The concept was that they are witch hunters morality-wise, hunting down the big bad thing of Tyria (dragons and their minions) and since dragons are big, their style and tools are similar to those of a big game hunter. It was the inspiration behind the spec, not the one phrase to define them.
Reapers were likened to Jason Voorhees, but I didn’t see anyone pointing out the differences and asking for a mask*. Or question their motives and whether they match Jason’s. It’s the same thing, the inspiration behind it and no more, give it a rest.
*We do have this, though, and it works pretty well: https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Acolyte_Mask
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i mean anet always favors pve players even made a wvw map for pve players called eotm which is horrible and a boring ktrain for a wvw player. but at least let the wvw players unlock the traits and skills with badges or something like that.
And how is that more fair?
I don’t know any PvE players that exclusively play to unlock skill challenges. They do fractal runs, dungeons, world bosses, and all of them will have to do something else, ie skill challenges, to get hero points.
So, there are 13 skill challenges in WvW. If they reward 5 hero points each, or if they add 52 more to get the 65 you need, will you stop complaining? They would be part of WvW, then.
One also has to consider this major fact: We don’t have scythe weapons.
It’s really that simple. We’re likely not getting scythes in this game besides a few skins/abilities and the Reaper will have the most prominent version. As for the Greatsword, it’s the closest analog to a scythe in this game. Just because a Reaper in other media only use a scythe doesn’t mean Tyria’s Reaper can only use a scythe.
As for the shouts, considering they tend to affect foes, it falls in line with the Necromancer’s motif.
Lastly, this is likely the only heavy melee spec the Necromancer is going to ever get and perhaps that’s what they wanted to portray the reaper as: a heavy death dealer who uses heavy weapons. What other heavy weapon exists in the game that’s closest to a scythe?
They didn’t have to name it “Reaper”. If the fantasy of a Reaper doesn’t work given the limitations of the game, and the condition that no new weapon or skill types will be made for the elite specs, then don’t name it that.
As for the shouts, considering they tend to affect foes, it falls in line with the Necromancer’s motif."
If this is a convincing argument for you, then Dragonhunter’s traps all have pretty blue lights and chains made out of light, so they fit the Guardian perfectly.
Yup just looked! The Mesmer page is normal and the necro thread is pretty depressing. So i guess just as normal
There are people that don’t like the names, myself included.
The primary reason the issue with Dragonhunter was more apparent was the disconnection between the theme of Guardian and Dragonhunter. Otherwise, all the arguments used to shoot the name down can apply just as easily to the other names.
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cough Reaper shroud turns you into Grim Reaper, the avatar of death with big scythe, you are also able to chill people in fear. Everything fits perfectly with the Reaper. cough
Sure, let’s conveniently ignore the greatsword and the shouts, you know, the actual substance of the elite spec and solely focus on the profession mechanic.
I mean, the utilities could be turrets and the weapon a rifle, but it all fits perfectly, because big kitten scythe.
Greatsword fits, they made attacks feel heavy and devastating + chilling enemies in fear, you can use Scythe or Greatsword to deliver killing blow. Skills like “Gravedigger” or “Reaper’s Grasp” give nice flavor. It’s very fiting. The Reaper is just named after core mechanic you say? Then what about dragonhunter? Using your logic here like with the Reaper, there is nothing in the skills/mechanic in dragonhunter that justify it’s name! I see you chose conveniently to ignore the rest of my previous post. I have to quote myself to remind you. Any answer to this? Do I wrongly assume that consistency is important?
That’s the second time you completely ignore the shouts. Reaper as a name gives no indication what the spec is getting, outside of the class mechanic. No, greatswords and shouting have nothing to do with the Grim Reaper.
If your only justification is that greatswords are big and scary, then any horror fantasy archetype fits the bill just as good, if not better, than Reaper.
Even if you think there’s no much of a link between a Guardian and a Dragonhunter, it’s more than easy to see why a Dragonhunter would use a longbow and traps.
cough Reaper shroud turns you into Grim Reaper, the avatar of death with big scythe, you are also able to chill people in fear. Everything fits perfectly with the Reaper. cough
Sure, let’s conveniently ignore the greatsword and the shouts, you know, the actual substance of the elite spec and solely focus on the profession mechanic.
I mean, the utilities could be turrets and the weapon a rifle, but it all fits perfectly, because big kitten scythe.
We’ll have to agree to disagree. Economics 101 summarized: Nothing is free. Scarcity in resources. Productions costs. Time. Recuperation of expenditures. Profits.
That’s pointlessly philosophical, and I study economics. You are twisting definition to make a point that serves no purpose to the discussion. “Free” has been very clearly used to refer to monetary compensation from the very beginning of this argument.
Funny thing is, it’s currently impossible to pay directly for this free content. Anet doesn’t even accept donations. What you are paying for is gems, a digital product of no monetary value. More directly, gems are a medium that allow you to pay for outfits, bank slots and stuff unrelated to the free content released periodically.
So, Anet releases this content at a loss, and relies on cosmetic stuff and account upgrades to make up for those losses.
Also, there is no country that has freedom of speech on the internet. So it doesn’t really depend on one’s country they’re currently in or even their country of origin; this is because such a thing does not exist in the first place. However, that is neither here nor now.
The fact that a site is privately owned doesn’t mean they have the right to suppress your rights, no more than you have the right to hold someone prisoner against their will in your own house, because they were visiting. Like you said, though, not here.
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How can I be exaggerating? And for what diabolical purpose are you accusing me?
You say, “They can’t just keep making new content for free forever”.
I say there’s no such thing as a free lunch.I don’t really know how else to put this and I’m tired of repeating myself.
For every person that chooses to pay, there are 10 that don’t. Obviously this is a made-up number, but it’s a fact there are a great number of people that enjoy the content released for free. The price they paid to buy the game doesn’t even offset the cost of the strain they put on the servers over time.
It’s simple mathematics, and it comes down to whether those that willingly pay spend enough to cover for those that don’t spend a single cent.
Since Anet decided to realise this content as a b2p expansion, they believe gem sales alone would not cover the development costs.
Just because some people may enjoy the content for free does not mean that the content was created “free”. How do you people not grasp this concept? How much content do any of you think we would have now without the gem store? Do you all honestly think we would have gotten things like Season 2 without a vital revenue stream such as the gem store? This free content was not free.
What do you even try to say by “created free”. Developing the content costs resources, “free” refers to whether anyone asks you for compensation to allow you access to it.
So yes, it is free. Any one who has purchased the game has the right to access the released content for free, that is for no additional charge. This is what free means.
Whether Anet got their money back, and where they got it from is unrelated. If I give you a free sandwich, it doesn’t matter who paid for it. For you, it’s a free sandwich.
Welcome to freedom of speach.
Freedom of “speech” does not extend to private forums. No offense. Just pointing this out.
That actually depends on your country of origin. I was being sarcastic though.
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How can I be exaggerating? And for what diabolical purpose are you accusing me?
You say, “They can’t just keep making new content for free forever”.
I say there’s no such thing as a free lunch.I don’t really know how else to put this and I’m tired of repeating myself.
For every person that chooses to pay, there are 10 that don’t. Obviously this is a made-up number, but it’s a fact there are a great number of people that enjoy the content released for free. The price they paid to buy the game doesn’t even offset the cost of the strain they put on the servers over time.
It’s simple mathematics, and it comes down to whether those that willingly pay spend enough to cover for those that don’t spend a single cent.
Since Anet decided to release this content as a b2p expansion, they most likely believe gem sales alone would not cover the development costs.
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Here is the funny thing I have the right to complain all I want about a game. Just like you have the right not to read or care what i say. Im not saying I wont get it im saying its just a month worth of patches In one day for 50.00 but of course you will show how smart you are and say something back. lol
And since you choose to do in a public forum, the rest of us have the right to criticise the sources you based your opinion on, the opinion itself and you as a person.
Welcome to freedom of speech.
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The only ones affected by this are the WvW crowd. And you have to make it clear whether you are against losing already unlocked progress, having to do any amount of PvE, or both.
The first is a reasonable request for those that have already unlocked skills and traits.
The second is another deal entirely. None of us have any elite spec progress, it’s new content, so we’re all starting at square 1. Do you object to skill challenges being the only way through which elite specs are unlocked? There’s merit in discussing this, but if you focus on this aspect of the argument, don’t pretend like Anet is treating you unfairly.
Dragonhunter isn’t an actual word either. Dragon Hunter are two actual words, and it would already be better.
Separating it into 2 words would make absolutely no difference. You can’t compare Dragonhunter, composed of 2 recognizable words, to Dragoneer, which doesn’t really mean anything.
And the problem is indeed that a Dragon Hunter hunt dragons, not really Dragon minions or those corrupted by the Dragons.
They hunt dragons and their minions because the lore says so. These arguments get more pointless every day. Reaper gives 0 information about their playstyle, skills and weapon, but you want a shopping list of a name to explain exactly what Guardians are going to hunt in HoT. Dragonhunter provides enough information on that font for anyone to make an educated guess.
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1) Each existing lv. 80 character gets trait unlocks based on hours played on that character, regardless of game mode, up to a cap of all base-traits unlocked.
If it comes to that, you might as well give them to all level 80s. You are only punishing altaholics and new players who’ll have to leave their characters logged in in an instanced map over night to farm hours.
Friendly tip: Go to any crafting table, and click the wardrobe. You will now be able to see all available skins in the game, even those you haven’t unlocked. You can also see their names.
Only problem is if you are a different gender or race, it might not look the same.
Correct, but if OP is interesting in copying parts of the armour pictured above for their character, I assume it’s a male humanoid.
If it’s just for one character, it’s not worth the effort. It’s easier unlocking important waypoints for each of your characters than getting map completion with half of them.
(try sweating on a factory floor or going blue in the face from stress because your under the cosh of a technically insane office boss). If they are that busy its a wonder they have time to switch on their pc’s.
GW1 vets must be reading this laughing themselves under the table!
Yes, of course, video games are best compared to manual labour. Entertainment you pay for has everything in common with working at a factory and enduring emotional abuse.
This is like digital age Stockholm syndrome. I don’t know what GW1 vets think, but as a City of Heroes “vet”, I’m shacking my head.
You can go to the other thread to read the tea leaves. How about keeping this one clean?
This entire thread…
The hyperbole is unnecessary. OP asked for waypoints, not full level 80s (which you can already get anyway) with everything unlocked.
There’s nothing to explore if you’ve already been to the same zones multiple times. Asking waypoint unlocks to be account-wide is reasonable. You do have to explore the map, but you only need to do so once.
Games are about having fun, you know. Real life is already full of pointless chores.
Friendly tip: Go to any crafting table, and click the wardrobe. You will now be able to see all available skins in the game, even those you haven’t unlocked. You can also see their names.
Make it destructible and I’m in.
Anet hasn’t announced a date or a price yet. Amazon put both as a place holder. They may even attract a loser or two who will pay them, then when the actual price is announced, they will refund the difference. It’s infinitely easier that way, instead of putting a lower price and potentially having to ask the buyers to pay more.
Use your brain.
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I made the mantra skill line suggestion in a different thread myself and I really hope it turns out to be true. It would be different and interesting enough to make me try it, and has the most potential to convince me using it over an additional kit.
If they are indeed mantras, I hope they somehow incorporate a shared charge system. Since all drones looked identical, they could all be the combined charges you can store, and you choose which mantras you spend them for.
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-It doesn’t convey what the class is supposed to be (while other names, associated with dragons, such as Dragoneer, or Dragoon, could have done the job)
Dragoneer is not an actual world. Dragoon is not associated with mythical dragons.
Also, Dragonhunters hunt dragons, they are not dragon-like themselves; not more than an anteater is an ant.
Hero Points & old characters: breach of trust
in Guild Wars 2: Heart of Thorns
Posted by: RabbitUp.8294
You will be at a disadvantage if you go up against a situation that requires reflects, and don’t have feedback, because your core traits are Domination/Dueling/Illusions, and you took chaos as your fourth because blink was locked behind it (Manipulations are likely to be in the same track as the manipulation boosting traits), leaving you without feedback/Inspiration (Glamours are likely to be locked behind the trait line that boosts glamours)
There are 10 separate trees, 5 for the traitlines, and 5 for the skill types. The 11th is the elite.
Engineers probably have 9+1.
I do agree with you, but some people want to unlock everything available to them, even if they’ll never use it. However, the people who do want to unlock everything should expect to have to work a little more for it.
On the note of not wanting to leave WvW, the majority of content in GW2 is in PvE. It’s a little unrealistic to expect Anet to let you completely ignore one of the major game modes.
I understand this, but it’s still meaningful to make it clear that you are not at a real disadvantage if you have 0 skill challenges. Wanting to keep everything you already unlocked is a valid complaint, though.
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Your condescension aside, there are probably names, concepts, etc. that I prefer more for the guardian longbow e-spec. For me though, ‘inquisitor’ has the greatest amount of conceptual overlap between the e-spec mechanics, the players’ voiced opinions, and ArenaNet’s revealed design intent. I see it as the pragmatic choice between ‘dragonhunter’ and the alternative names.
The truth remains that you wish to pick a name, whichever that is, according to your subjective criteria. Yes, you might take complaints people raised into consideration, but at the end of the day, the very fact you wish for the name to change is only because you don’t like it and think your dislike alone is a good enough reason for any amount of manhours to be spent on making your wish come true.
That’s the difference between your group and me.
Hero Points & old characters: breach of trust
in Guild Wars 2: Heart of Thorns
Posted by: RabbitUp.8294
at the current rate, some wont be enough to complete it.
IF they keep the same rate as base core, it will use 90-100 to complete a specialization and the associated skills.
that means 155-165 used up. leaving you with about 65 left if you do wvw/other maps, etc.
100 seems a lot. You need 465 points to unlock 5 traitlines and 30 or so skills (I’m not sure how much that number varies between professions, to be honest). Elite specs are only a single traitline, 6 skills, 1 armour skin and 1 weapon skin.
In any case, the issue raised was that some people will get a head-start for the next elite spec. Regardless of whether you can unlock it fully or partly on launch, any amount of leftover points offers some advantage.
And I don’t really see the issue. It’s the same as how some will be able to use Tomes to get a level 80 Revenant on day 1.
So you are here asking for a change for selfless reasons? You are not picking a name you like, but the one that is best for the community? So noble.
Hero Points & old characters: breach of trust
in Guild Wars 2: Heart of Thorns
Posted by: RabbitUp.8294
I don’t understand why hero points should be “limited”
…
Uhm people with 100% world completion will be able to do that already.
but they will be able to do it this time (IF they have world completion which isn’t that common as you see so many people cry here), the resource will be limited and there wont be any way how to get more… so when they introduce another content which requires hero points and at the same time content which award hero points, people will need to earn more hero points from new content (instead of having it farmed already from just leveling up or scrolls)
According to what we know, unlocking all base specs and skills requires 65/189 challenges. Unless the elite spec uses up all the rest, it means that those with world completion will have some hero points left for the next elite spec.
Inquisitor is a worse name than Dragon hunter could ever possibly be.
3. Engineers don’t necessarily use Charr technology.
They do, according to the lore.
In a manner of speaking . . . yes. Eventually, all players will be able to get into the beta. Whether it’s open or closed by pre-purchase or not. That said, it always seemed silly to me to farm an item to beta test a game.
You want me to beta test your game? Invite me, and I will. I’m not farming to have the chance to beta test anything. That seemed incredibly arrogant to me. Since when is beta testing anything, to find bugs and flaws in any expansion, a reward?
But, as always, that’s just my humble opinion.
Game companies generally don’t invite people for betas, unless you are member of the press or something.
You subscribe, and wait to be picked. The same applies here, only, as an added option, you can increase your chances by farming for a portal.
How Anet giving you more options is a reason to complain is beyond me.
Explosives GM has 2 out of 3 traits that are designed to be support useful. That was the example anet even used when talking about these traits, how great they’d be for support.
Then ofcourse the Inventions traitline is very support focussed. Elixirs isn’t complete, but the use of Elixirs inherently has a support potential and Tools also has some supporty traits.The new Medkit is far better for support. Mortarkit is to replace Grenadekit for long-range, but the grenadekit was a damage focussed kit unlike the Mortarkit which also has elements of support in the form of the Healing shot at the expense of damage.
So there were a few more changes to promote support than just 1 traitline. Maybe you want to check the list or the video again before you call someone else stupid.
If you count every trait and ability that can potentially affect an ally in a positive way as support focused, you will find that the vast majority of professions are apparently meant to be played as support. And saying that engineers have support options is completely different to saying that devs are actively forcing them in a support role.
How about examining the logic behind the changes? You didn’t even need to mention the Med kit changes, as Engineers use arguably the most support oriented of all often-seen heals already. Med Kit needs to find its niche with more boon support, as Healing Turret does both selfish healing/condi cleansing and ally support much better. It can even be used as both sustain and burst heal, and gives access to 2 water fields for more support.
Both Grenades and current Mortar feature a mix of dps and support. In any case, it’s no use discussing Mortar, as we don’t know if the new skills will retain the same functionality.
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Unless the trailer “cheated” to make the Engineer part look cooler, they are not minions.
Just playing devils advocate why couldn’t they be spiritish types?
Like the example Jortakk gave, they are attached to the character model, and follow him as he moves.
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If you ask me, what devs seemed the most proud of were the changes to skills, like the Med Kit and Mortar.
You need to see the big picture the Devs were. How powerful would med-kit be with defiance?!? You could run of the downed allies, rez them and heal them up with the med-kit
Mobile Mortar of Defiance? Sounds like it’s defiant to me, running around with a mortar.
(You can heal them with the turret, too.)
I already addressed that. Keep in mind, the defiance bar is not a minor trait, but a Grandmaster major. That means it’s optional. If engineers do get it, I expect it to only work while you wield the hammer (actually wield it, not have it equipped and use a kit instead). And that’s why it will be optional, as not all elite Engineers will use the hammer.
And even if another class gets it, all have a ranged weapon option, so I expect a similar weapon-based restriction to apply.
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Unless the trailer “cheated” to make the Engineer part look cooler, they are not minions.
I’m talking about upcomming trait changes. anet devs seemed a wee bit to proud of all the awesome support stuff engineers can do.
I just have little confidence in anet. They thought it a good idea to combine Speedy Kits with Kit Refinement. Two traits that are almost mutually exclusive because they both require the exact opposite playstyle to work optimally, as a result they never get taken together.
But apparently anet thinks they are great chums and should go hand in hand. So that doesn’t exactly get my heart racing.
Yeah, that’s a single traitline you choose to use. And I’m actually eagier to see how it will perform and whether it will make support gamestyle viable. But to go from changes to a single traitline to say that Engineers are meant to be a support class is, sorry to say, stupid.
Other professions get similar traitlines, and that’s how the game should have always been. GW2 has one of the worst Pve modes, because everyone builds full dps. Hopefully, HoT’s content and the trait reworks will change that.
If you ask me, what devs seemed the most proud of were the changes to skills, like the Med Kit and Mortar.
Turrets are utilities.
Yes, turrets are. That says nothing about the drones.
that mask, imply heat. I assume the Engi Elite Spec will be based on that alpha weapon for them..
In the trailer, we saw a autoattack chain using a fiery hammer that looked like what the leaked skills described.
I hope the heat theme is mostly visual, as I would really like a welder spec using the torch in the future.
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I feel that might be a little redundant to give if juggernaut is being reworked to give stability, I dont think they would add defiance on top of that.
p.s. Oh I can hear the cries from the pvp forums now about juggernaut.
So, the entire elite spec must rely on a specific traited kit to function?
Why would it? Were’d you get that from?
I’m just saying engie cant be getting defiance. I can’t see how developers would allow a class to have the potential to have both defiance and perma stability at the same time
A melee spec without access to stability is a spec that doesn’t work. You are saying hammer is ok because flamethrower grants stability when traited. So how do you play hammer without flamethrower/Firearms?
In any case, if Engineers do get the defiance bar, I don’t expect it to work without having the hammer active, otherwise, you could just slot the Mortar and spam fields from 1400+ range.
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HoT trailer already confirmed Engineer’s Specialization to be a Melee Focused Specialization giving them access to the Hammer Weapon and new Drone Turrets Utility Skill.
It will be Hammer Time for Engineer once HoT is released.
We don’t know anything about those drones, it’s not confirmed they are turrets or even utilities.
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I feel that might be a little redundant to give if juggernaut is being reworked to give stability, I dont think they would add defiance on top of that.
p.s. Oh I can hear the cries from the pvp forums now about juggernaut.
So, the entire elite spec must rely on a specific traited kit to function?
If an elite spec gets defiance i’d bet it would be Warrior :P
Just an estimated guess based on looking back at the past 3 years of development. I feel Engineers are more pressured into a support role.
Perhaps, but it wouldn’t make much sense from a gameplay standpoint. Warriors’ base profession is already melee oriented and has the tools to perform in such a role with decent stability uptime, invulnerability, etc.
Engineers, Necromancers (and maybe Elementalists) are primarily ranged professions and balanced as such. Their elite specs will be melee oriented, though. And they need the tools to function, as we already saw with the Knight Shroud that gives Reapers very decent access to stability.
Am I missing something? Was it ever confirmed that one of the elite specs would be getting Defiance? Does someone have a source for this?
“Equipping an elite specialisation takes up one of your three specialisation slots and grants you three minor traits and nine major traits for use. How does a trait that removes a condition every time you evade an attack sound? I’m personally excited about a grandmaster trait that has the power to grant my character a defiance bar!”
Assuming that post was true, they specifically mentioned pvp. Support options generally benefit all game modes, while a defiance bar has a more pronounced impact on spvp.
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Kits are too versatile at what they do. Sure, we don’t get a second weapon, but 1 kit should have been enough to fill that gap, yet you see triple kit builds (soon to be quadra kit). We are not forced to take them, just that they usually tend to be the best choice. I’m sure other classes would appreciate them just as much, if they had access to them.
As for the elite spec, equipping the hammer and new Mortar gives you both melee and ranged options without sacrificing your main utilities. Even after slotting a second kit leaves you have 2 open slots left, so there’s room for the new skills, if they are good enough.
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I remember reading a post (I think it was on reddit), that the devs said engineer’s elite spec would have a large impact on PvP. I can’t find the post now, or the original source, but if we assume this is true, then I’m sure they could only mean the defiance bar.
And it makes sense. You would give this mechanic to a spec that needs it. Of the ones remaining, Druid and Thief are apparently ranged, and Thief is all about being sneaky, not an immovable object anyway. Warrior and Revenant are already melee oriented, and have good sources of stability.
That leaves us with Elementalist and Engineer. We don’t know much about Eles yet, but their base profession has some stability.
Engineers, on the other hand, gain a melee weapon, lose stability from Mortar, not that it mattered anyway, and are left with Toss Elixir B and 1 sec from Thumber turret’s tool belt. A defiance bar would make a lot of sense, and could be an excuse to avoid changing our class mechanic, an issue we discussed in the other thread.