Guild Wars 2

DaveyC.4398:

I bet that 99% of people who are complaining will ultimately buy the expansion regardless of if the offered packages are changed.

You are projecting.

The truth is, this is a make-or-break moment for GW2 and maybe Anet in general. If the expansion fails, the game won’t have much of a future. And I’m talking about immediate future.

Rai.9625:

You can get the exact same. A brand new account including GW2 base Game and the Expansion on top. That is the exact same a new player gets and you can too.

You are only saying that I can turn myself into a new customer by forgoing my progress of all those years to get the deal. How is that helping? You just show that newcomers get more value for their money, as by the end, I will have 1 core account and 1 HoT upgraded one.

Jongi.7612:

People want something just because they have played the game since launch. THAT is what im addressing

Find a single post and quote it here. A post from someone asking for special treatment, above what others receive, specifically because they have been playing for 3 years.

Jongi.7612:

There is no scheme, just a misunderstanding. If they would of worded HoT as such “new players get the core game for free” a lot of the arguments would of been erased. HoT is $50 dollars with or without the core game.

Pshht, I have this [Banana] for sale. Because the [Banana] is sitting on my kitchen table and I don’t have the keys with me, I’m willing to give you the whole house as a complimentary gift. Price is $100,000. I repeat, you are only buying this [Banana], the house is $0.

Though that isnt the point at all of my original post. It was addressing people who think that just because they have played for 3 years they should get something in return". No other reason, just because they have played for 3 years.

Nobody has said that, but those like you who are eager to scream “entitlement”. You will notice that the solutions suggested are never limited to 3-year-old veterans, but all those that already own the game, even for a single day. And the reason is specifically because they get less value out of the HoT purchase.

Even if they just gave the core game copy to everyone, veteran or new, the very definition of equal treatment, there would be a lot less complaints about this particular issue.

Jongi.7612:

Your not though. The expansion is 50 dollars with or without the free core game. If you dont think its worth it dont buy it.

You are objectively wrong. As a veteran (=someone who owns GW2, not someone who has been playing for years), you don’t get the core game. So, you get less.

Your only basis for your argument is that the core game has no value, so you lose on something with no value, therefore you don’t lose anything. Which is again wrong, as an extra account has value as a mule, login reward farm, additional slots, or even a present for a friend.

Jongi.7612:

Theres a third option too, dont buy it. See how simple it is?

You mean the option those that disapprove of Anet’s practices already take?

Quit now to save face.

Jongi.7612:

What marketing trick, they said “the expansion is $50”. If thats a marketing trick you must be skeptical of everything. And no, its not a bundled product, its HoT, if you dont have the core game they are going to give you that for purchasing the game.

The expansion is free, it’s the core game that costs $50!
Wait no, it’s the specializations that cost $50, the rest of the expansion is a gift!

This is the marketing bull crap, neither product is sold separately, and GW2 is not F2P yet. The truth is you are contributing to make this offer possible for the new players, but you are not compensated.

Jongi.7612:

No, not at all, your just paying for the expansion. If you have the core game already why should you get it again?

Because I’m buying a bundled product and paying full price.

The only way that you can say that is because they didnt give enough information that idiots cant understand.

Actually, they give just enough information for idiots to think they understand. The rest don’t fall for marketing tricks.

Jongi.7612:

Yes, but it isnt of the same value. Ive gotten probably 50 bucks worth of free stuff in those 3 years and I didnt play continuously. Do you think new players should also get the same thing now? No of course not, so what exactly are you complaining about?

The value is not $0 either. The last sale for GW2 was $10.

There’s no such thing as free stuff. What you got was a result of the revenue from GW2 boxes sold and gem store sales. Either you paid for part of it or you rode the coat tails of those that did.

Jski.6180:

Wait do you also complain about when GW2 was on sale becuse ppl got a lot for 10$ when you (i guess) had to pay 60$ for it? How do you function in real life with this view things are going to go an an off of sale added things are going to be put on older items to make ppl want to buy new things.

Next time you post in a thread, try to first read the previous posts. Your erroneous argument has been already debunked.

Jongi.7612:

No, this is the argument given “ive been playing since launch i should get something since new players are getting the core game for free”. That is entitlement and they dont owe you anything.

So, you admit that new players get something extra when both they and veterans buy the exact same product, at the same time frame and pay the same price.

Then, asking for equal value is entitlement?

You have gotten plenty for just logging in for the past 3 years.

That’s why I bought the game years ago, instead of waiting until today. This is all covered by that purchase, and is not related to the new product, Heart of Thorns.

I’m entitled to equal treatment as a customer.

Jongi.7612:

The expansion is $50 bucks, end of story. If you dont already have GW2 and you buy HoT you get it for free.

So, as a veteran, you get less.

Its so that it brings in more players.

It just so happens, thinking veterans are not willing to personally fund this promotion without equal compensation.

Kurogami.9210:

So what if it turns out that the expansion actually is worth the 50$?

Given how quite a lot of players, me included, will have to pay at least $60 for the expansion, which is how much GW2 launched at, I know already the expansion won’t contain as much content as the base game itself.

Sorean.5379:

I think they have said sometime ago that a single GW2 zone was the equivalent of a whole zone in GW1 or something like that.

Regardless of whether this is true or not, the dev team is not limited to the map designers. There are profession designers, armour/weapon modellers, open world content designers, dungeon/fractal designers, etc.

Highly detailed maps don’t excuse the lack of other content. And in the end, maps are largely eye-candy, I won’t get my “thousand of hours of entertainment” by running around the map.

Cormac.3871:

Really? Oh for crying out loud, what a stupid response. This is in the context of consumer law, not moral rights.

Did I mention moral rights? You keep putting words in my mouth. For someone that calls others stupid, you don’t seem capable of comprehending simple text.

You said consumer rights don’t apply to a product one hasn’t bought. Besides the fact that this is false, what I said was that since another product that I did buy is affected by the launch of HoT, my rights are still affected either way. My legal rights, as a consumer.

warbignime.4610:

So the purpose of this thread is to tell us you are not buying it? I can not even. Stop making pointless thread like this.

Were you equally critical of threads whose only purpose was to tell everyone they bought the game?

No, of course not.

Straylight.7529:

Maybe they could shift the whole nature of the “better deal” by giving both, veteran and new players a free character slot (so everyone has 6 by default) and give the new players something else instead to make up for it.

Like the GW2 game?

Cormac.3871:

And did you see me arguing against your right to provide feedback?

Yeah

stof.9341:

Consumer rights include stuff like : the right of the consumers complaints to be heard, the rights to be informed regarding the price,quality,quantity,etc.,regarding the products and that we should be provided wide variety of goods to choose from.

Cormac.3871:

But again I say consumer rights do not come in to play until you buy the product. i could be wrong, but I don’t believe that there is anywhere that protects consumers for a product that they haven’t bought. Google it and let me know if you find anything.

Straylight.7529:

“We currently pay the same to get less”. That’s one way to word it. You could also say “We currently pay the same but the new players get more on top of it”. And why exactly is that a problem for you now? Are you jealous?

I have the right as a consumer to not be discriminated against. Stop projecting your childish demeanour on me.

Entenkommando.5208:

Look. Lets say you are having an insurance. And there are 2 stages of it: the basic, and the advanced.
You’ve been paying for the advanced for years and now – as marketing – a new customer gets the advanced insurance for the price of the basic one.
But will you get your money back? No. Because that’s not how this works.
You both got the same product, yet the new customer gets the better deal.

E: It fits more if you say that you were having basic for years and are now upgrading to advanced.
The same purchase at the same time. Your words.

You still have to incorporate a time difference to give an example. You fail yet again.

Your second example is not even realistic if both apply at the same time. No company offers advanced permanently for the price of basic and still charges for the upgrade.

Straylight.7529:

But they simply don’t have to offer a different option for those who already own the game. I’m sorry but you’re nothing special for already owning the game.

Veterans don’t ask for special treatment. We currently pay the same to get less. We are asking to be offered the same (a copy of GW2), or something of equal value to what new players get extra (like a character slot, since the core game was sold for $10 during the last sale).

rapthorne.7345:

I am utterly baffled that people can not grasp this concept that what people paid 3 years ago is not representative of right now.

How funny that you are the one who fails to comprehend the real problem.

There were 3 $10 sales for GW2 this year, yet nobody complained. This is not about a new deal for the new players, this is Anet forcing the same deal on the veterans. We have to buy a bundled product and we don’t even receive the second item.

If you want to offer a bundle for GW2+HoT, be me quest. Make the game F2P, that’s cool, too. But offer a different option to those that already own the game, not a strictly inferior deal.

Entenkommando.5208:

Don’t tell me you have never seen something as an advertisement gift which you had to pay before.

But do you go to blind rage and want your money back every time you see this because it is for free now?

“Before”, “now”?

There is no time difference, we all buy the SAME PRODUCT, at the SAME PRICE, at the SAME TIME.

We both go to the counter together, buy the same thing, pay the same price, but the cashier gives only you an extra gift. When I ask for my gift, she tells me that I bought it for money a few years ago, surely I have no use for it anyway.

Cormac.3871:

Ummm, by giving you more features? Are you arguing that every time an MMO creates an expansion that you think is too high (and bare in mind that even though it is at the higher end of the market, it still in the range of what other expansions for MMOs cost) you are entitled to some sort of refund? If you do I give up, you obviously have no grip on reality.

Did you see me ask for a refund?

The core game is affected balance-wise by the introduction of new gameplay features locked behind a paywall, and a failed expansion pre-purchase launch and PR disaster will affect the community, the company’s image and ultimately, the longevity of the game.

So, yes, I have the right to provide consumer feedback, both for a product that I already own and is affected, as well as a new product Anet is trying to sell to me.

EdgarMTanaka.7291:

I would like to see where they lied and false advertised… Don’t bring up the FAQ since it is not an advertisement.

Of course it’s an advertisement. They tell you “our product does this-and-that”. They don’t have to print it on a poster for it to count.

EdgarMTanaka.7291:

Also it is still not a lie in the FAQ, as you need to have base GW2 to be able to play the expansion.

No, you don’t. There is no core game, you cannot purchase it from Anet and the HoT code contains both games. They are not 2 separate products, you simply cannot have one without the other.

Not to mention, false advertisement doesn’t even need to be a direct lie. Even a misleading statement counts as such.

Razor.9872:

Yes, yes they are just giving you the option to buy the set of tires. You are just confused because the tires are the same price as what you previously paid for your car. You are not forced to buy anything. Hell, by all means, if it makes you feel better in the slightest, then just wait a while for them to release more information first.

Another anolgoy? Alrighty, here goes… :P

The thing about this magic ketchup is it doesn’t show up unless you have never eaten a sandwich before (feaking creepy ketchup).

It’s always saddening to hear good players such as yourself leaving, but I can’t — and won’t -- hold you back. If anything, I hope you find what you are looking for :\

Besides the fact you ignore the shady FAQ business, you completely fail at basic economics.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/There_ain't_no_such_thing_as_a_free_lunch

Nobody gives you free cars. There’s a production cost for these cars, as well as an opportunity cost, as the company could sell them for a profit instead of gifting them to you.

You cover these costs.

And while Anet doesn’t sell a physical product, they would still be losing money if they gave GW2 away for free instead of selling it. Instead, the $50 price tag covers both games, with veteran players paying more so that newcomers can get the bundle cheaper.

This whole bet of their relied on marketing smoke-and-mirrors to work. Thankfully, a good portion of the playerbase have above average understanding of economic principles and marketing tricks.

No, you can’t. Vague statements and misleading information are Anet’s bread and butter it seems.

Don’t worry, they are taking their time to buff all elite specs across the board. Let me see you enjoy PvP/WvW without HoT.

It’s about false advertising, not the goods themselves.

http://www.reddit.com/r/GameDeals/comments/3acrl3/battlenet_world_of_warcraft_for_10_and_warlords/
Value for money, am I right?

Ambika.6257:

This right here is trolling and incendiary. He/she’s asking for decency. We mostly moderate ourselves on here and I thought this was very appropriate all things considered. The pot has been stirred my friend and has been boiling for DAYS. People just need to simmer down! (See what I did there? )

Decency? Ditch the rose tinted glasses.

The vast majority of all those “Thanks Anet” posts, yours included, were thinly-veiled attempts to directly attack the players, or devalue their arguments. And then you play the victim card as soon as you receive negativity for your attacks. At least the complainers and boycotters have a problem with Anet’s poor decision making, not those that pre-purchased, unless they were directly provoked and/or insulted.

OP even accused us of personally harassing and threatening the content developers. Yeah, such decency.

Access to the core game will still be available free of any extra charge, so it’s not a question if we like the existing game.

Leo G.4501:

That happens too. Consider the promotional offer with 0 membership fee + no contract also comes with a discount on your first set of personal trainer fees. Technically, the offer still applies to me since I don’t use a personal trainer but had I used any such services before, I couldn’t apply for the same discount.

Again, different. You were fully aware that the discount is a one-time-only deal when you first signed up and accepted it, so you are not entitled to it any more each time you renew your membership.

Nobody told us we were going to pay for the game again for each expansion, but not only receive it once.

Zaklex.6308:

Actually, if you understood the American language(not English) and read that properly, then you would know that it’s one code, that includes both…i.e., it’s either an account upgrade to HoT if you already have the base game or a completely new game that includes the core game and HoT. That’s how I read it to begin with, it’s not my problem if most people don’t have good reading comprehension skills.

A game serial code for account creation or upgrade for the Guild Wars 2: Heart of Thorns expansion and the award winning Guild Wars 2 core game.

There are 2 main ways to read this:

1. This is a bundle that includes 2 items: a game code, and the GW2 core game

A game serial code for account creation or upgrade for the Guild Wars 2: Heart of Thorns expansion

-and-

the award winning Guild Wars 2 core game

2. This is a single game code that includes 2 items, one of which offers a choice between 2 options

A game serial code for:

• account creation -or- upgrade for the Guild Wars 2: Heart of Thorns expansion
• the award winning Guild Wars 2 core game.

In either case, there’s no clause that you won’t receive the base game if you already own it.

Wolfey.3407:

Hey that $10 people are complaining about can buy almost two cups of coffee from Starbucks.

Another overpriced product. Apt comparison.

Leo G.4501:

Business services do it all the time. I got my gym membership for $0 and pay $20 every month for a year a few years back but eventually discontinued service as my job took me away from such a routine for extended periods of time. I come back, it cost $25 to get a membership and $25 a month with a 9 month contract. A few weeks ago, they offered promotional memberships with no membership fee and a $25 per month fee with no contract.

The thing about being a consumer is, you have the power to not pay something you don’t find fair but it’s also the producers’ right to charge what they feel the product is worth. Don’t pretend you’re standing up for consumer rights because the deal being offered isn’t unfair. And remember, there is a difference between being unfair and being too much.

You are comparing apples to socks.

There is no time difference. Neither the vets nor the newcomers own the product yet, they are only potential buyers, and while they pay the same price, the vets get less.

So, you go to the gym to renew your membership, and you take your friend with you, who hasn’t been there before. They ask the same price from both of you, but since your friend is new, they throw some “free” shoes and a towel in to sweeten the deal. And then they tell you you won’t be needing these, since you already got them when you first signed up a few year back.

Charrbeque.8729:

The most common reason for that is because people in Europe forget about VAT. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Value-added_tax So you guys essentially have to pay an extra tax for stuff.

That doesn’t explain the standard edition.

Gray.9041:

I ran the numbers a while back, and I think between the tax differences and the currency conversion, it works out about the same.

For the standard edition, the price in euro is a direct conversion. It doesn’t add up.

Aria.5940:

I’m starting to actually see a point why they are not addressing the issue yet. As much as I hate to say it, every article about this mentions how great value it is to new players. So I guess it’s possible anet want as many potential players to hear about this and so caused the uproar deliberately.
I really do hope that’s not the case, as that would be reason enough to walk and not look back and might also leave potential new players wondering if they can trust anet.

Honestly though, if you were a new player, would you join a 3 year old MMO in the middle of a kittenstorm?

warbignime.4610:

And since this company is so scumy, why not quit playing this game. And since you quit, can I have your stuff? Just send all gold and t5 mats to the id at the left ,ty.

Because I can continue to use the product I already own while not providing any monetary compensation to said company.

If a fridge manufacturer is found guilty of shady activity, will you throw your fridge away?

You sound pretty salty yourself.

this was Marketing’s brilliant idea and has absolutely nothing to do with the
actual dev-side folks you’re all threatening repeatedly.

[Citation needed]

IndigoSundown.5419:

The OP’s contention of unfairness is invalidated by one simple fact. One can no longer buy a GW2 core account from ANet without buying HoT.

So?

Both veterans and newcomers will have to buy this GW2+HoT bundle. But the vets will only get HoT. This is what’s unfair.

Daddar.5971:

Knock it off with the legal aspect. Any lawsuit has a kitten’s chance in Orr of success, and you (hopefully) know that.

I happen to know otherwise.

penelopehannibal.8947:

I’m not a lawyer, but I have worked in retail and I do know that advertising posters and such in retail are not required to show the full Terms & Conditions on an advertising/marketing poster, only during when purchase is being made.

This is not about them not giving you the full picture.

What they describe is different from what you buy. This is false advertising. There’s a misleading statement like “A game serial code for account creation or upgrade for the Guild Wars 2: Heart of Thorns expansion and the award winning Guild Wars 2 core game.”

This could either means 2 separate codes, or 1 code for both.

Frightlight.3796:

No as a long time player I am not owed anything I only have what I have worked for in game. I am fine with new players getting the base game that way they can increase our player base. It doesn’t bother me when I buy HOT that I don’t get anything extra because I already have all the awesome stuff from playing over the course of release till now.

Which you paid for already when you bought GW2.

This is a new product that Anet is offering and it will have to justify its price tag by itself, not ride the coat tails of consumer trust and loyalty, while slapping the existing playerbase across the face at the same time.

Yes, it’s true. The core game has been discontinued as far as Anet is concerned, although you can still buy it from third party retailers while stocks last.

From now on, the main version of the game is GW2+HoT and this is what newcomers can buy.

uhohhotdog.3598:

Sales happen. You can buy a refrigerator today and then next week it goes on sale. You don’t get extra compensation because someone else got it cheaper.That’s life.

This is not a sale. Is it this hard to wrap your head around it?

We both buy the same product, at the same time and pay the same price. But you get a better treatment. This is discrimination, not a sale.

By the way, in your example, you can ask he store for a price adjustment.

Wwefan.4982:

overly long sentence

Yes, Anet wants new players, all MMOs do. But they ask veterans to shoulder the extra cost of reaching out to those new players without any compensation.

If you are ok with that, be my quest and pre-purchase. Just understand that some are not ok.

The deluxe buyers pay more that $10 for the slot, so they somehow have to justify the value of the digital fluff to themselves.

Kitiara.2706:

hands briggah some popcorn Its been like this. I tried to post a Thank you to Anet post, being nice, and gotta attacked by the guys with pitchforks.

Yeah, you tried to be nice by calling everyone that had a different opinion from yours noisy spoilt brats.

Aedelric.1287:

Your comparison is not very good.

Eye of the North is the only other expansion and as such the only other game you can fairly compare it to.

Several of the HoT “features” are to be included in the base game and as such not part of the expansion. For example WvW Borderland, PvP Stronghold etc…

What they call expansion is a standalone (or “expandalone”) that replaced the core game from this point forward. A new player that joins today cannot choose to buy GW2 from Anet, but are forced to buy HoT.

Meanwhile, veterans pay the same price to move their active accounts to the new version of the game.

Why do you bring GW2 to this? It’s a different product. The veteran that paid $60 at launch played the game for 3 years, while the newcomer that got it for $10 last September has only played for a few months. This is fair. And irrelevant.

With HoT, both veteran and newcomer are buying the same product, at the same price, at the same time. But they get different content. It’s not a discount, it’s preferential treatment in favour of a specific group of players, who happen to be the ones that contributed nothing to the core game.

Dibaryon.7469:

You’re missing the point obastacle. These features you’ve mentioned were advertised in the pretext of the HoT expansion (check the first trailer).

So? We get them for free anyway. They are GW2 content, even if their cost will be covered by HoT revenue.

They stopped caring about you at the exact point you gave them your money and committed to buy the expansion. Clearly if they can separate you from your $50 without telling you anything, they don’t need to discuss the new maps with you any longer for the extra $50.