Guild Wars 2

Julie Yann.5379:

Alright, I dare him to get good with warrior then take on a good engi or mesmer in PvP and then come back here and tell us who is OP. As it has been said many times before, Warriors are OP when nubs are fighting but the higher up the skill ladder you go the less and less effective it becomes until it is pretty much balanced.

Considering the amount of teams running Warriors and considering that the winning team of the ESL weekly cup ran 2 of them….. I fail to see how “balanced” the Warrior is even at a higher skill ladder.

Currently, Engi and Mesmer is not mandatory. The warrior is.

I do not understand why PU is constantly mentioned in this discussion.
It is about the tournament compositions and the specs used there is it not?
PU is not the Mesmer tournament spec.

1. Mesmer (Because the profession has an amazing amount of bugs. They are not wanted in tpvp and in wvw, outside solo roaming, they have not much going for them either.)
2. Elementalist
3. Ranger

KyreneZA.8617:

I would suggest you visit the mix-’n-match thread for ideas on her outfit though.

I actually love that topic. There are many beautifull characters and gear combinations in there. I have posted there several times myself in the past.

Regarding my little thief: Well – this is her pvp gear. Since this topic is about the face, I just found a screenshot that showed the face well. ^^

Creative? No.
However, since a-net said that eventually we would be able to use pve gear in pvp and pvp gear in pve I thought it was worth the investment.

Considering her limited gear options in pvp, I rather enjoy the look of the full set.

9/10.
I like him. He has a noble look, but at the first picture, his eyes clearly shows that this is not someone you want to mess with.

Here is my little thief. She is also my first human character.
I have always liked contrasts, so I figured since the Thief profession is somewhat sinister; I wanted her face to be innocent looking.

Cynz.9437:

clones by itself already do more dmg than sb3 + you can use them for shatter, on top of it mesmer dodge doesn’t put mesmer spells on CD… my point stands, thief spamming sb3 didn’t accomplish anything while mesmer did

Clones hit for nothing. You are correct, they are used for shatters. Problem just is, you cannot hit the evading thief. The clones will be chasing him, and not reaching their target, before he is evading again. With that many evades, it is fairly easy to avoid the telegraphed attacks of the phantasms as well.

By evading you are accomplishing something. You are not taking damage.

Thank you!

Priceless, especially the sound effects!

Slim.3024:

Reesha.7901:

Slim.3024:

I hope this isn’t a bug, ‘cause it didn’t make much sense for them to instantly attack a stealthed player when he came out of stealth, before the mesmer even realized where the stealthed player was to begin with either.

None of the tooltips suggest that illusions come outfitted with the most advanced satellites and tracking devices of any sort.

So, if your opponent stealth, you should loose 90% your damage and defense. Mmmmm, nope, I really don’t think that is an idea you would like to see implemented to your own class.

But it’s fine that you can cast phantasms and clones without being affected by evades or blocks and that they always know where the player is instantly. Clones and phantasm in this game are smarter than the actual player and can not be juked.

Is that fine?

You can blind the cast of the phantasm and you can evade or block the actual attack.

This is not a topic regarding what you do not like about Mesmer.
This is not a topic regarding what you would like to see changed.
This is a topic about a bug that cripples Mesmer, against any opponent that has stealth.

Slim.3024:

I hope this isn’t a bug, ‘cause it didn’t make much sense for them to instantly attack a stealthed player when he came out of stealth, before the mesmer even realized where the stealthed player was to begin with either.

None of the tooltips suggest that illusions come outfitted with the most advanced satellites and tracking devices of any sort.

So, if your opponent stealth, you should loose 90% your damage and defense. Mmmmm, nope, I really don’t think that is an idea you would like to see implemented to your own class.

phaeris.7604:

The problem is, if you weaken the thief, suddenly classes like warriors, or med guardians will eat them alive.

There’s just too much disaparity between the 2 ends classes now , warriors being at one end, eles and rangers being at the other. The further you move down thieves, the better it gets for the top end.

Really you need to buff rangers and eles up instead of nerfing thieves.

I am fairly sure there are several teams running rangers. Ele and Mesmer, not so much. Don’t think Mesmer should be left out of this, as they are one of the professions not worth taking over Thief.

This need to be fixed right away.

There is also the GS phantasm and Sword leap clone, that doesn’t spawn if cast instantly after swaping weapon, but go on full cooldown.
According to Supcutie’s guide, this is not an out of range issue. It is a bug.
Here is the video from his guide.

A little thing: For some reason, you cannot break the windows in battle of Khylo with the GS auto-attack. I know it is a minor thing, but if your weapon swap and GS3 is on cooldown you can’t get out that way.

Sharen Graves.1276:

Reesha.7901:

All is a matter of taste, but I find the updated look to be rather hideous.
Thankfully, customer support is doing a great job. I had my refund just a few hours after I created a ticket.

And what happened to the armor? Did it revert back to your old one?

No. But they gave me 800 gems + 1200 extra.
I think they handle each situation differently. I had not used my Flamekissed on cultural t3 armor or anything like that, so I did not have any special needs in that regard.

All is a matter of taste, but I find the updated look to be rather hideous.
Thankfully, customer support is doing a great job. I had my refund just a few hours after I created a ticket.

Bryzy.2719:

PU mesmer is OP. You guys have little to worry about compared to rangers

This topic is not about rangers. Feel free to create a topic regarding rangers, if you feel there is a need for one.

style.6173:

If a mesmer loses to a thief, then the mesmer is just plain bad. Mesmer is by far the best 1v1 class.

If a mesmer brings one of the strong 1v1 specs, then they are not of much use to their team. I know you think it is different, but you are mistaken.

Lucentfir.7430:

You want to complain about stealth go look at Stealth based mesmer builds that stay safe while they let Phantasms Wreck you. (Torch stealth. Veil, mass invis.)

That build is not viable for high end tpvp and is therefore not relevant in this particular discussion I would think.

Tremain.4623:

Is that the only role mesmers can play?

In high end organized team tournaments, then yes.

dimyzuka.7051:

Btw not a single mesmer in the whole KOTM2 tournament on the weekend.

16 teams, 80 of the best players in the world and not a single mesmer..

Even the team that came 2nd had a staff ele.

Oh dear.

Well a-net has apparently already thought of a solution.
They are nerfing Mesmers. No Mesmer no Consume Plasma. ^^

I have posted this elsewhere, but it seems to belong here.

I watched Helseth’s stream yesterday, and yes: Apparently, he is re-rolling to thief.
Below is some of the reasons he gave on his stream, as to why he is changing profession.
__________________________________________________________________

[Stream:] “I thought you said mesmer is viable?”

Mesmer isn’t viable, I am.
I have made that statement before if you look at my YouTube video.
Here is the deal: Mesmer is viable right now because the competition is kitten.

Mesmer is bad compared to backstab thief. Period.
There is nothing a Mesmer brings that makes it worth taking over a backstab Thief. Nothing. Like what exactly does a Mesmer bring that makes it worth it?

PORTAL! Exactly! That is the one thing that makes you want to bring Mesmer.
Portal! 90 second cool down utility to port the team around. That is the one reason you would bring Mesmer over Thief.

The damage of Mesmer vs Thief is pathetic. Like it’s no contest. Thief easily trumps shatter. The tools I have as Thief exceeds what I have as a Mesmer. Simple as that.

Portal is why you want to take Mesmer, but Mesmer has pathetic mobility compared to thief, way less evades, way less damage. Like the one thing Mesmer has is utility in the portal and more reliable boon stealing. But thief has so much utility as well.

You guys can bother with your Mesmer all that you want. I am not telling you to quit Mesmer, I am saying I am quitting Mesmer.

I am done playing Mesmer, I am done. I am a kitten (bad) D/P thief, but I won’t be for long. It has nothing to do with giving up on Mesmer. It is not giving up; it is just realizing that D/P has more potential. If I was as good on D/P thief as I am on Mesmer, then I´d be a much more useful player.

[Stream:] “Can you name some of the key reasons to why you don’t want to play Mesmer anymore?”

OK. Mobility: Thief wins, damage: Thief wins, survivability: Thief wins, utility: Thief slightly worse. So there you go. There you go. Thief is much better than Mesmer in every single regard and they have the same role. No point. Literally no point of playing Mesmer.
__________________________________________________________________

Link to the stream episode

I watched Helseth’s stream earlier. Apparently, he is re-rolling to thief.

Obviously, this is seen in a tpvp perspective, but here is some of the conversation regarding the profession change.
__________________________________________________________________

[Stream:] “I thought you said mesmer is viable?”

Mesmer isn’t viable, but I am.
I have made that statement before if you look at my YouTube video.
Here is the deal: Mesmer is viable right now because the competition is kitten.

Mesmer is bad compared to backstab thief. Period.
There is nothing a Mesmer brings that makes it worth taking over a backstab Thief. Nothing. Like what exactly does a Mesmer bring that makes it worth it?

PORTAL! Exactly! That is the one thing that makes you want to bring Mesmer.
Portal! 90 second cool down utility to port the team around. That is the one reason you would bring Mesmer over Thief.

The damage of Mesmer vs Thief is pathetic. Like it’s no contest. Thief easily trumps shatter. The tools I have as Thief exceeds what I have as a Mesmer. Simple as that.

Portal is why you want to take Mesmer, but Mesmer has pathetic mobility compared to thief, way less evades, way less damage. Like the one thing Mesmer has is utility in the portal and more reliable boon stealing. But thief has so much utility as well.

You guys can bother with your Mesmer all that you want. I am not telling you to quit Mesmer, I am saying I am quitting Mesmer.

I am done playing Mesmer, I am done. I am a kitten D/P thief, but I won’t be for long. It has nothing to do with giving up on Mesmer. It is not giving up; it is just realizing that D/P has more potential. If I was as good on D/P thief as I am on Mesmer, then I´d be a much more useful player.

[Stream:] “Can you name some of the key reasons to why you don’t want to play Mesmer anymore?”

OK. Mobility: Thief wins, damage: Thief wins, survivability: Thief wins, utility: Thief slightly worse. So there you go. There you go. Thief is much better than Mesmer in every single regard and they have the same role. No point. Literally no point of playing Mesmer.
__________________________________________________________________

This is off course only one area of the game.
Then again, Mesmers are not that awesome in PVE or wvw outside roaming either. One thing they really have going for them is the fun to play factor.

Considering the statement in the Posting guidelines:

“ Sometimes a profession may not receive as many increases as other classes. A lot of times, this is because that class is already performing very well in the current state of the game.”

I don’t see the mesmer performing “very well in the current state of the game.”
Still waiting for the changes to address that.

Edit. Forgot the link to the stream

Sickness.9831:

confounding suggestions is a bugged trait…..well, i guess uncounterable things and power creep are the stuff we want to avoid..or am i mistaken?

They fixed the bug for this trait.
Mesmer

• Chaos Storm: Fixed a bug that caused this skill to stun enemies whether or not it dazed them when traited with Confounding Suggestions.

Xaylin.1860:

That probably is a trade off you will have to make. While the Vigor change will affect Shatter Mesmers it is not the reason why they are not popular in PvP or PvE. You also might keep in mind that – when assuming the max. amount of Vigor uptime – you will only lose 3 clones per minute. If the fight only took 30s this would equal 1.5 clones. So in longer fight it will indeed add up and make a difference. In shorter fights it won’t.

You might keep in mind, that I did not state anywhere that this is the reason Mesmers are not popular.

Do I still it is problematic that the vigor change is introduced without any positive changes to make the profession desired in teams again. Yes I do.

Do I think the vigor change benefits the game overall? Defenitly.
I actually think it is a step in the right direction. I just don’t think they should normalize vigor without looking at the effect it will have for each class.

I do not think they should normalize for a class that is one of the underdogs without attempting to help the Mesmer stepping out of that role. Especially since balance patches do not happen that often.

Xaylin.1860:

Shatter Mesmers are indeed in not such a great place right now. But this is the case for every Mesmer build besides Blackwater (Roaming) and Phantasm/Reflect (PvE). However, Shatter Mesmers actually have a very easy work around if they really need the additional Vigor. Just go 10/20/0/10/30 instead of 20/20/0/0/30 and pick Vigorous Revelation.

Maybe it is just me, but I do feel the 20 in domination is extremely important because of shattered concentration. The last thing I need is my entire 3 clone F1 shatter damage reduced by protection, or being unable to strip my enemy of other useful boons.
I don’t want yet another reason to NOT bring a mesmer over a thief.

Atherakhia.4086:

Ranger vigor was nerfed 2 patches ago… Mesmer and Guardians are the few classes left to not have these traits normalized.

While this is correct, the difference for the shatter Mesmers is, that the vigor translates into both offense and defense.

Below is how I see things and yes, I do fear the worst from this change.

Dodging provides the Shatter Mesmer with clones and those are used offensively against other classes (shatter). The clones are also used as a defense against other classes (absorbs damage).

The heal used by shatter (Ether Feast), scales depending on how many illusions are active.

A shatter Mesmer has a trait that increase damage depending on how many illusions are active. Obviously, the shatter itself also does damage depending on the amount of illusions.

Once upon a time, Mesmer’s could run Mirror Images (produce 2 clones), and gain access to a double shatter combo. Today, those utility slots are used for survival and the one of the few remaining reasons to bring a Mesmer: The portal.

Therefore, the shatter Mesmer rely on their “on dodge clone” for damage and for survival. Most of the Mesmers defense is active.

Even without the extra damage and with utilities meant for survival, shatter Mesmers are still struggling. It is the only semi viable team tournament spec available and it is very unforgiving to play.

Both the ranger and the thief have more evades after their normalization compared to the Mesmer before normalization. Both the Ranger and the Thief are a part of the meta whereas the Mesmer is not.
The Thief in particular is a hard counter to the shatter Mesmer partially because of the evades.

Overall, the vigor nerf will tone down not just the amount of actual dodges. It will tone down the defense and offense of the shatter Mesmer as well.

Considering that the shatter Mesmer is far from “a must have in tpvp”, I do not see how this change, without any compensation, is warranted.

Now obviously, the perfect class combination matters the most for the good teams. Those that most of us are not a part of. Anything is viable in solo queue.

It still saddens me to see Sensotix playing thief because how Mesmer feels in the meta and to see Supcutie on his ranger.

I like to watch the skilled Mesmer players. They inspire me, I learn from them.
There are not many left.

Daishi.6027:

So… Mesmers get less vigor, yet thief and ranger can still evade spam?

“But thieves need doges to survive!!!” >> and glass mesmers don’t? and in the current state of the game still have less?

Plus Ranger still has little risk even without the doges so lol they get to keep it too?

well that’s juuust peachy.

I do not understand their reasoning for this either…..

Thieves.
As Scarlet would say: Die die die. Die die die, die die!

Thedenofsin.7340:

Mesmer Nerf:

I know this is part of a global adjustment, but it is, without question, a nerf to Mesmers.

1) This is a double-edged sword, as it nerfs Mesmer survivability and damage output.
2) Mesmers are not meta-viable now.
3) Mesmers currently get eaten alive by thieves in tPvP and need all that dodging just to not die to thieves.

Given thieves hard counter Mesmers today, with all the vigor that Mesmers have at their disposal (see: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=im3-jm3mCHI&t=6m10s for Helseth, one of the best Mesmers playing today, getting trained 100%-0>0% by Sizer), I think this change is not good unless it is counter-balanced by some kind of survivability buffs for Mesmers.

I too would like an answer to this question. When thieves got their vigor nerfed, it was with the following explanation:

…We have also somewhat reduced the effectiveness of high evasion thieves by reducing vigor up time and adding some cast time to the Shadow Return skill on the sword. This prevents these thieves from evading too much and too easily dealing with being disabled (stun, daze, fear, knockdown, etc.).

What is the explanation for the Mesmer considering:

• The Mesmer is not evading like a thief.
• The Mesmer is easy to punish.
• The Mesmer is not in the meta.
• The vigor change means both less damage and less defense.
• The Mesmer is not compensated in any way for this change.

style.6173:

You lost all respect when you said mesmers only get nerfs. They are the best 1v1 class in the game.

Keep in mind that mesmers do not bring their strong 1v1 specs into tpvp. Also, keep in mind that mesmers are getting nerfed with the next balance patch without dominating this particular area of the game.

Lucentfir.7430:

Is that a bad thing? Guardians are a balanced profession. They have weakness and sacrifice for what they want to do. Not having the best of both worlds. WvW Roaming theif is only good at ganking, and in small groups Venom share is a option for those who want to play a daring/risky build. In any case Spvp wise guards are only good for bunkers and a certain extent a meditation play style some choose to play. WvW Zergs idgaf about since everything is about stacking defense things so you don’t die in the massive lag fest pressing one, roaming is hard because easily kited, and easily condition spammed, PVE they’re pretty good, but who the hell complains about PVE? THe place is only constructed of AI and predictable movements with HP sacks they call Champions and Legendary mobs.

I am pretty sure he is talking about tpvp and is questioning why no other profession can take the role of the guardian in a team.

It is not that the guardian is unbalanced, it is that no other profession is designed to fill this particular role while various professions (ideally) could fill the other roles on a team.

In the ideal world you could bring a none thief roamer, but there is no other choice when it comes to the guardian.

Assuming every team would want to run with 1 guardian. (You rarely see a team without one), that leaves 4 slots for the 7 remaining professions to compete for.

Thedenofsin.7340:

Thieves have dominated the roamer role for about 8 months now, with no sign of any good buffs for elementalists and only nerfs for mesmers. Again APEX PREDATOR much?

I think that is a valid question and one that I would like an answer to as well.
Where exactly does a-net see the elementalist and mesmer fit in?

Chaith.8256:

Same relationship between Necromancers and Engineers. Same roles, absolute hard counter. There’s no conceivable way for the equally skilled Engi to beat a Necro that’s 1v1 oriented. (Golem, Spite, Corrupt Boon, even Plague Signet I’ve seen LOL).

I’ll admit, even as an experienced condi Engineer I would lose to anyone picking up that Necro build for the first game.

But that’s alright, in the grand scheme of conquest. Fortunately there are a ton of ways to work around the hard counters in this game.

Maybe there is, but considering Mesmers will be nerfed next patch, and considering they are currently not that common in teams, I don’t see them being back in the meta anytime soon. I do not play an Engineer, so I am not going to pretend to know anything about them.

I do think it is problematic, when one profession lock out others and no, that does not only apply to Thieves, they just happen to be one of the professions currently being in that position.

Paulo.8459:

After LS ini cost nerf, boon steal nerf, infiltrator’s return nerf and vigor nerf I think S/D is perfectly fine now.

People just don’t want to realize that you can’t spam 12345 to win against an evasion spec.
People don’t ask for advice but instead come to the forum and claim something to be OP.
I’ve almost never seen a thread asking for advice on how to beat a certain spec. That’s really sad imo…

I have a hard time believing Phantaram or his team just “spam” skills. :P

Jelger.6758:

In general this is just an issue of ele’s getting hard-countered by s/d and one should get a slight shave up and the other a slight shave down to make it meaningful again. Thief vs ele matchups aren’t flat out broken like many other matchups currently are.

I don’t think he is talking about the elementalist vs thief matchup in particular, just the S/D thief in general?

If we are going to talk about the specific matchups, a shatter mesmer is not particular happy when running into a S/D thief either.

Since those 2 professions are competing for a similar role on a team, I think it is somewhat problematic that the matchup greatly favors the thief.

Jelger.6758:

The only thing I find that is out of balance is their dmg/defense trade off. S/d doesn’t do a lot of damage but does have very good defensive capabilities (if played right) for the damage they do.

But I can think of some more offenders because the current meta is completely based on this. Deal too much damage for the defensive options you have. How else could we describe warrior’s being a damage dealer with defensive traits and utilities. And aren’t all rabid condi users essentially using a defensive amulet while still having more DPS output than a myriad of unviable berserker options.

I do think many people would like to see the Warrior reach some sort of balance between damage output and defense. I would like to see the same for the S/D thief and for any other “offender” to that principle.

Overall, I agree with Phantaram. I do think S/D deals too much damage considering the amount of damage they in return can avoid.

Interesting – I had lag on Forest as well (EU). I did not lag in any of the other maps.

Deimos Tel Arin.7391:

Cynz they already got their best things.

mesmer got best illusions, best confusion, etc
thieves got best stealth, best damage, etc
necromancers got best death shroud, best minions, etc
etc

warriors got best landspeed.

them warrior haters should really accept and move on.
because this will not change.

That made no sense.

Mesmer got best illusions. Which other class has illusions that you are comparing them to?

Necromancer got best Death Shroud, best minions….
Same problem here. Those are Necromancer specific mechanics.

Land speed is not a profession specific. It is something all of us have, some just better than others.

BlackDevil.9268:

What I don’t get is why they keep on nerfing the wrong things and buffing the wrong things.
Stop buffing roaming skills, stop buffing cheesy builds, stop nerfing skilled builds

PU was fun for a month or 2, now with nerf after nerf on other builds besides PU, it wont be long till PU is just as elementalist with EA, being a must-have trait.

-Nerf PU
-Rework our utility’s that are useless now such as mantra’s and mimic
-Buff aoe lockdowns such as chaos storm. The CS bug sure was a little bit strong, but far from OP. Incredible how 1 bug caused mesmer to be slightly viable in tpvp and raid again, whereas you just insta-fix that bug instead of fixing iwarden first.
-Make a rework on focus. Imo Iwarden needs a full rework and the pull cooldown should be reduced to 0.5sec. 1 second is too long.

Maybe focus on that kitten first before you gonna touch more traits that have no use to be nerfed. Just like the sword, you just random nerf it. Why? Because everyone uses it? Maybe focus on making other weapons viable then instead of nerfing the weapon skills. I find staff a very weak weapon for mesmer atm. Chaos storm is a joke, if you get dazed or stunned by that you’re really unlucky. It’s like what? 20% chance to proceed 1 sec daze? And you need a grandmaster trait to make that 50% chance for 1 sec stun?

Pathetic, warriors with more lockdown than mesmers. What was mesmer supposed to be in this game? A 2nd thief? Because that’s what mesmer is becoming…

I think this post has many valid arguments.

I too find it slightly odd that the developers did not look into why so many Mesmers run PU. Considering this is one of the only builds that has been seeing buffs, it really shouldn’t be surprising.

Where are the changes to the builds that could really use some love?
Shatter has been nerfed in the past while other professions got buffed, so has many of the none condition weapons such as sword and focus.

Mesmers are still the underdogs in tpvp. A thief can easily train them down and kill them, a well-known tactic, because is it extremely effective and very easy for the thief to shut the Mesmer down.

If this is not problematic, considering a Mesmer and a thief compete for pretty much the same role on a team, then I don’t know what is.

Before the bug fix to Confounding Suggestions, at least people had to think twice when the Mesmer arrived. The Mesmer had some real pressure and defense through the Chaos Storm. It was hardly balanced, but after the bug fix, the grandmaster trait became useless again.

This alone leaves the Mesmer at a state where they are not welcomed on a tpvp team. Another class will be a better choice.

Now Mesmers can look forward to a balance patch, that will bring nothing to help the shatter or lockdown mesmer, but only reduce their viability even further.

Cynz.9437:

@Reesha: other classes have same issue if they go glass. What is your point?

Point is fairly simple. Mesmers, like many other professions, do not have several specs to choose from in organized team play. Currently shatter is the only semi viable spec available.

CntrlAltDefeat.1465:

It has to be said, mesmers do bring a lot with them. To state that you can now only 3 clones active max and not keep rewriting them is profession destroying..well, ..let’s be honest, from this list..how more did you need to remain viable?

Since Mesmer is close to the bottom of the food chain. (Not as low as ele as we are semi viable) The question that should be asked instead is:

Do you want them to remain viable?
I would like the answer to that to be: Yes.

Yes, a Mesmer can do damage. We also have to spec full glass to do so as a shatter Mesmer.

The Mesmer is vulnerable to both physical damage and condition damage.
Compared to a thief, a Mesmer is a slow roamer. With babysitting, they do bring support in terms of portal, stomp preventing abilities and their dps. Still, not many teams run them.

A thief will rip a Mesmer apart unless the thief mess up.
Warriors and rangers are also problematic. A guardian will not kill a Mesmer, but it is unlikely the Mesmer can kill him either.
That is quite many of the current meta classes, which the shatter Mesmer has issues with.

It is not that the Mesmer is in a horrible spot, it is just that there is little need to bring a Mesmer to a team fight.

If you are struggling to understand why the suggested change to DE was problematic, I would suggest for you to either read up a bit on the Mesmer section of the forum, or go watch Helseth’s latest stream on twitch, where he explains what he feared about the change and try to show it as well.(01:29:00)

Roy Cronacher.1576:

Thanks for the feedback guys, there were some good points brought up here. This is why we wanted to discuss these future changes so that we had time to adjust to your feedback.

We’ll be discussing this change more internally. Most likely we will make some adjustments or look at other options such as replacing clones not triggering Debilitating Dissipation so it does not impact mesmer play as much which wasn’t our intent.

Thank you so much for listening. A bit of faith has been restored.

DaliIndica.9041:

I dont care about shatter, I have no issue with fighting them. Sometimes they win, sometimes I do, but it feels like a fair fight. But the tanked up clone spamming stealth lovers are a completely different story, and that needs to be ruined beyond belief.

(also, as a thief, whilst the current state is looking a bit grim, its exactly what needed to happen. For far too long, backstab heartseeker spamming was an easy win, and that needed to be sorted out. It went on for so long that in the end it seemed every single class despised us, and it was entirely justified. Mesmer and thief are both one of those classes that either has stupidly powerful builds or wanders into obscurity. Never truly bad, but nothing special. Shatter mesmer could do with a few buffs if you want my opinion, but the clone spammers have ruined any chance of the mesmer being looked upon with those thoughts. Same as the thief, it will be nerfed to death when it was one thing (or some small aspect) that was the problem.)

And if your shattering your clones etc, I understand a spamming nature is required at times. I am talking about those who never shatter, but just keep spamming clones and trying to stay stealth, with tanky builds. THOSE are the ones that ruined it, but they will never care as they will just move onto some new easy win and that class will end up getting nerfed to death.

Problem just is, it is not the targeted build that will suffer much from this.
I do not believe the condition based PU build will have major issues after this patch.
Shatter will…..

Should they do something to reduce the effectiveness of the condition PU build? Yes they most likely should. As a shatter mesmer I find them extremly annoying as well.
This just isn’t a good solution.

Also – I do believe you see so many mesmers running the condition based stealth heavy build for the following reasons:

• It is easy to play for a beginner.
• Unless a thief mess up he will rip you appart if you play shatter. The fight favors the thief big time.
• Shatter need some love.

A-net apparently does not understand how this will affect many Mesmer builds.
If Mesmer had been on top of the food chain maybe I would have understood. But we are not. We are just above Elementalist in terms of organized tpvp.

There are not many teams running Mesmers and that is for a good reason.
A thief is basically better.
A thief will rip a shatter Mesmer apart.
A Mesmer is vulnerable to both physical and condition damage.
A Mesmer needs a lot of babysitting from its team.

Now where are the changes that address those issues?

Advent.6193:

If they [the Devs] honestly felt there was a problem, would not modifying the proc
logic of the clone-death Traits be a more logical step than a blanket-slashdown of
Deceptive Evasion? It seems to myself, and others, that they truly attacked the wrong
part of the “problem” that they perceived.

^ it does indeed seem like they are doing it wrong.

DaliIndica.9041:

In this thread: Clone spammers doing anything to avoid the chop. Oh it is so sweet to see the mesmer put in the ground, so sickeningly sweet.

In this thread: Too many people that want a shatter Mesmer to be even more of a free kill than they are now. Too many people that apparently do not want any competition. Too many people that don’t have a clue. Too many people that want a “I win button.”

Thank you for clarifying that. We now all know what kind of player you are.

The majority is voicing WHY the change is problematic. I do not see that as a bad thing even if they do not provide an alternative solution.

I have not been as constructive as I normally would be. I am angry this time around. I have lost faith in the developers and their ability to make good Mesmer design decision.

I have however voiced my concerns for the shatter Mesmer, which is what I play. I explained the issues, which I personally think these changes will bring. I have supported others voicing similar concerns.

If you consider that “whining” then so be it. I consider it valid information, as it appears the developers might not have considered the impact it will have on several Mesmer specs.

You have to keep in mind that being constructive is does not mean being positive or even have a solution. You can be constructive while criticizing the changes, which I do believe several people have mastered flawlessly. Me not being one of them.

MonMalthias.4763:

I disagree that nerfing CC across the board is the way to go here. Clearly the issue at fault is Immobilise stacking – every other CC at the moment has no such problems with stacking.

I thought that was exactly what the topic was about. Did I misunderstand something?

EDIT: Oh, wait. I think I get it now. You agree there should be no stacking and disagree with a-nets incoming changes. English > me.