Guild Wars 2

Since you don’t get reward if you transfer mid-season anyway and the winner for gold/silver NA league was uncertain before league started, I am not sure if the poor reward is relevant anyway…

Sreoom.3690:

Reslinal.2359:

Sreoom.3690:

Blackgate…please stop. The “We were the underdogs” story is getting old.

I feel sorry for you all…your server built (some would say bought) an awesome WvW army. But winning hands down and easy will wear thin week after week…soon you will see guilds moving to servers where they are challenged.

Blackgate was the perceived weakest T1 server before league starts and even after BG won the first week of league, I would glad to provide links to threads/posts claiming that from JQ and SoR if you are in doubt. The success we have in Season 1 does not change the fact that a lot of people were surprised and shocked by our performance initially.

Also I would advice you to not make predictions about what will happen to BG as you guys are really not good at making predictions giving how your pre-season predictions turned out…

First: Disclaimer: The predictions I make are mine. They are not necessarily endorsed by my server. If you have a beef about it take it out on me…not JQ as a whole.

Second: I noticed you even acknowledge that Blackgate was “perceived” to be the weakest. Thanks, that’s the first time I heard a BG person even come that close to admitting they weren’t underdogs.

Like I alluded in my post, there are a lot of BG people still claiming that Blackgate was the underdog and the ONLY reason you went undefeated was by the grit and talent of your players. I’m not saying you don’t have any talent, but please…be honest, your server won primarily by numbers.

And I stand by my personal prediction…what fun is not having any competition? The better guilds will move on to be challenged. The weakest will stay for the Karma Steamroll.

Most of BG players (at least the serious ones) are always saying we are the perceived underdog entering the season, of course we wouldn’t be able to win the season if we stay out-coveraged by JQ or SoR during the season.

As for how we win, all T1 servers have the population to offer good numbers in all time zones, JQ was said to have 24/7 queues until you fought BG in week 5. Winning WvW in T1 has always been about organizing/mobilizing the server population better and keeping the server’s morale high. During season our guilds stayed up longer, the server was able to get more Pvers to actually try and stay in WvW, and we got ZDs to help cover our weak time zone after we lost MERC/SUPR/TKG in that time zone. So it is how we turn a server that has the weakest coverage before the season to the one with a stronger coverage that allow us to win season 1. Grit and determination certainly plays an important part in it, our guilds and commanders were willing to stay up super late to cover our weak time zones/push enemy’s weak time zone while some other server simply give up when they find out they have a weakness. You won’t keep your server’s morale high if you give up easily.

There are more competition now than a lot of times in the past (e.g. JQ’s long-term dominance after the end of free transfer) and server strength always fluctuate especially now the season has ended. I know many guilds are enjoying the fights now and they don’t seem bored shrug

Sreoom.3690:

Blackgate…please stop. The “We were the underdogs” story is getting old.

I feel sorry for you all…your server built (some would say bought) an awesome WvW army. But winning hands down and easy will wear thin week after week…soon you will see guilds moving to servers where they are challenged.

Blackgate was the perceived weakest T1 server before league starts and even after BG won the first week of league, I would glad to provide links to threads/posts claiming that from JQ and SoR if you are in doubt. The success we have in Season 1 does not change the fact that a lot of people were surprised and shocked by our performance initially.

Also I would advice you to not make predictions about what will happen to BG as you guys are really not good at making predictions giving how your pre-season predictions turned out…

If you are truly interested, yes a lot has been added recently, I will list some major ones:

1. They changed the lake area in Borderlands to a new ruin area and added a new mechanic, bloodlust, fun area to roam around.

2. They made the EBG jumping puzzle a separate map and added a big area for gvg.

3. Season 1 which attracted a tons of new wvw blood.

4. A new map, edge of the mists, is being tested right now without NDA, a large amount of guilds (thousands) have received invitation to join the testing.

5. They increased WvW rewards and soon the rewards will be account bound.

Zephyrus.9680:

Story time. I was the only roamer on BG BL for a while last night and while going in a predictable line between the camps, there would be 5-10 BG waiting at the next camp or arriving as I captured it. Consistently. Can they really be that bored?

Roaming this match is just strange. Almost every ‘roamer’ on BG runs glued to their 3-10 roaming group it seems. I don’t remember this from the last match where some of them would break off for duels.

Then in the fight club, some random troll group of BGs would jump in and interrupt every duel and keep running back whenever they got killed. Someone must be bored…

Also whenever I look at the PPT skill board I feel like my jimmies are being rustled. But at least I ain’t bored.

Partly because some are bored partly because there are lots of pvers who do not show up during our regular matches running around…..

Let’s change topic from the old bickering between bg and sor again. Can someone elaborate more on the shortcomings of that you know who the game in beta? Anything in its RvR you think it’s good?

Peetee.9406:

Burl.9567:

Seigfried.5938:

Chris.3290:

dwahvel.7356:

Chris.3290:

So are things are as bad as they look for SoR (TW disbanded, IRON left, behind TC in score), or is this just blatant 2v1 when they are having a bad week?

TW didn’t disband. Lost some members and are not playing every night like they used to. Tbh I couldn’t care less about being behind TC. We went months and months being outmanned during ocx/sea/eu. It’s nothing new.

I just hope finally the T1 servers stop with the “arms race” and try to even out the other Tiers before season 2 starts.

Maybe it’s just bad wording, but you are talking like a T2 server there.

TC is weaker than they’ve been in months, SoR must be looking a lot different these days if they can’t catch up.

Morale is really low on SoR right now. BG faced a similar problem just before leagues begun and that’s why everyone thought BG were the underdogs.

I wouldn’t really say it’s a morale issue. People are just leaving the game altogether due to boredom and the lack of caring for this game mode by ANet. One can only do the same thing night in and night out for so long until it starts to become a chore.

I played a terrible game this last weekend that I can’t name due to an NDA. That just shows the desperation that many are starting to come to on this game.

Burl is spot on, it’s boredom.

WvW is really boring. It’s easy to look past it’s flaws when you’re winning because the fun is in winning. But once you look at it from the perspective of a server that’s outnumbered on every map almost every hour of the day, it’s really kittening lame.

You either turtle in your towers with 25 arrow carts or you die over and over again. Neither one of those options is even remotely fun.

I used to always complain about TC turtling/no showing versus us but now I understand. Let me apologize to every TC player I’ve ever talked kitten to, you were just doing what you had to.

Honestly, I’d rather bang my head against a wall than play against BG or JQ at least that way I wouldn’t be so bored.

I think the problem is your enjoyment of the game is clouded by the low morale/big disappointment in the results when you thought you are more competitive. There are plenty of servers that can still have fun despite having lower coverage in matches than you guys right now (including SoR in t2 days and when you first entered T1).

I think you guys are just in a phase right now where big disappointment lead to perceived disinterest. This may or may not pass, but I certainly hope you guys sort it out and come back strong. The loss of a T1 server will be a sad event.

Josh.3759:

Some of us decided to try the beta this weekend. It’s looking like Gw 2 will have no competition further down the line, most was not impressed well played anet well played.

Did you guys get to try the RvR aspect? It is really bad compared to wvw?

1. The matchup schedule should include at least 4 matches of servers in the same tier. Using T1 NA as an example, it should be something like: SoR/JQ/BG SoR/JQ/T2 SoR/JQ/BG BG/JQ/T2 SoR/JQ/BG SoR/BG /T2 SoR/JQ/BG. This way you will all more balanced matches while also still maintain some level of variability. Also map politics on same tier match will change as season goes on.

2. Need to add incentives for servers with no chance for top spot in the league to keep fighting. Maybe reward based on improvement or something similar.

3. Related to 2, the points for the matches should also be scaled based on score difference in the match. Winner of the match can still take 5, but second and third place will receive point based on how close their score is to the winner with 3 and 1 as minimum point respectively. This will encourage servers to fight to the end even when winner is determined.

4. The achievement idea is good as it attracts new blood to WvW. But you need to make sure you launch edge of the mists first before similar thing is implemented for Season 2.

Standing on the battered west wall of JQ borderland garrison, watching the massing horde of Blackgate’s beasts down below, a tired Jade Empire commander gave a deep sign, “It is this time again”.

The ferocious battle for the mythical golden dolyak between the Jade Empire and the Blackgate has wagered on for eons, but things have began to turn worse for the old empire. Its once proud keeps and towers now lying in ruins, its mighty armies shattered across border lands, and its seemly endless treasury has now depleted, all seems to be lost.

All seems to be lost except one, one unbreachable Garrison stands tall among those ruins. The defending warriors of this keep are grim but determined, and they are proud. They have withstood the endless assaults of the mighty Blackgate beasts since the beginning of the war, they have repelled the unstoppable and feared Legion of ZDs, they were able to hold garrison with all broken walls against Blackgate’s three finest force, GoF, Coin, and RK, and they just annihilated one of the mightest Golem armies in the history of war. All is lost but this one keep, and the defenders of the Jade Empire have decided to not let it fall. This keep is their last hope, their last beacon of resistance, and their last demonstration of Empire’s unyieldable will.

The Jade Empire commander stands firm on the wall, grim but determined. He knows it will not be an easy battle, the beasts of Blackgate hold the power of belief and their will cannot be broken. “Will I be able to beat all odds and live to tell the story of the JQ borderland Garrison?”, he wonders; and I, the historian, also wonder…

magikfox.9658:

True irony is moaning to a server that they are ducking the score to get more guilds, when said server takes a break right before the beginning of season one and… lululul

BG never kept it a secret that our main guilds are taking a break that week so they can get fully rested for the season. It’s not BG’s fault when some people don’t believe what we said and use our performance that week as a measure of our strength and decide their strategy in week1….shrug

I love bloodlust. It gives roamers things to do as well as add an interesting mechanism to the game. Once you capture a bloodlust, it only takes like 5 people to maintain it unless the opponent server devotes a significant force to get it back. And if your server across all three maps cannot even field a force to get one bloodlust, you are going to lose pretty bad anyway, so the snowballing thing is moot. But in a relatively even fight (or a server is at small advantage), smart bloodlust management can win you the match even if you are the weaker side.

meowmooz.9270:

3 out of 4 maps in JQ has no queue right now.
Only map with queue is JQBL with 1 minute queue.
Where did everyone go?

Low morale problem I guess. This seems a common problem for all T1 servers. The queue is always there when you don’t need it and yet always disappears as soon as you begin to really need it…

By the way, just wondering do you have any outmanned buff on any map?

scootshoot.6583:

Reslinal.2359:

scootshoot.6583:

Congrats BG on Anets first league championship! It was close for awhile but when JQ’s finest hour Oceanic/Sea is unable to win the PPT battle by a wide margin it’s apparent the end is near as ZD will take advantage of the minimum resistance afforded during JQ’s least manned play time and another 5k+++ to the lead.

Have fun with your golden doly’s, make sure to share a screen shot!! With this win I believe you guys can take week 7 off (well deserved).

Yes, I admit I ribbed you some as it was all in good fun in a video game of all things. No hard feelings

While I appreciate the early congratulations, the match is not won until at least Thursday:) Both JQ and BG have pulled amazing come backs before, so a mere 8k lead or even 20k lead is not guarantee for win.

Do we not agree JQ’s strength in numbers is Oceanic/SEA? the fact they were unable to push back hard during their peak ppt hours says a lot of which way this match is gonna end up.

And it was precisely the early EU/EU time (BG’s stronger time) a couple days ago when BG got beaten by JQ and lost its lead then. There are so many factors affecting the performance at each time zone (e.g. whether you can get organized guild in map, a bad scout lead to loss of t3 keeps, wild card guilds like Agg, commander not able to log in etc), that it’s really hard to say with certainly what’s going to happen.

Yes BG is doing really well right now and should make next several hours more difficult for JQ, however it does not mean there’s no chance for JQ to reset the fights later on and get a come back.

scootshoot.6583:

Congrats BG on Anets first league championship! It was close for awhile but when JQ’s finest hour Oceanic/Sea is unable to win the PPT battle by a wide margin it’s apparent the end is near as ZD will take advantage of the minimum resistance afforded during JQ’s least manned play time and another 5k+++ to the lead.

Have fun with your golden doly’s, make sure to share a screen shot!! With this win I believe you guys can take week 7 off (well deserved).

Yes, I admit I ribbed you some as it was all in good fun in a video game of all things. No hard feelings

While I appreciate the early congratulations, the match is not won until at least Thursday:) Both JQ and BG have pulled amazing come backs before, so a mere 8k lead or even 20k lead is not guarantee for win.

etrigan.4213:

Hey MAG…FA here, how are you dealing with all the terrible guilds on BG and SoR?

From what I am reading, their roamers are having one of the more exciting matches and don’t have much to complain:)

kaltastic.3146:

BAEK.8561:

DKNS.2135:

BG worked their kitten off when you got IRON.

WRONG. Let’s not forget history. Your score tanked and your WvW population plummeted when IRON came to SoR. In one week, BG went from winning by 50k points to losing by 50k over SoR; was IRON worth 100k points? (remember, this was before stomping gave points, so final score was much lower). SoR then proceeded to go undefeated for few weeks.

Remember, IRON transferred over just a week or two after BG got RISE and WM from T2. Before IRON, when BG got those additional guilds, you guys were dominating. After IRON transferred? We had to beg you guys to come out and fight us. Many of the BG guys that were dominating and PvD’ing day after day were nowhere to be found with IRON in the battlefield.

I’m not saying this to say that you guys didn’t put up a fight. I do acknowledge that many of your guilds still came out to fight back when IRON came. But the truth is that large portion of your players (PvE / fairweather) simply didn’t show up. Every server has their own share of PvE and fairweather players.

Yes, SoR did lose a lot of fairweathers with ZDs transferring, but a lot of the hardcore WvW roamers and guilds are still coming out to fight. Having said that, BG, SoR and any other servers are no different than one another in the respect that we all have fairweathers who come and go and hardcores who stick through and fight. A server isn’t an autonomous being or a hive-mind, but rather a collection of many different minded players.

Now, one may say we have more fairweathers than BG does. Do we? Maybe, maybe not. who knows. How would one even prove that? So let’s not even go there :P Chances are, most people reading the forum are already hardcore, dedicated WvW players. So you won’t get more people to come out by taunting us because people reading the forum are already out there fighting you.

DKNS.2135:

BG also never gave up when our SEA/OCX was having issues when MERC left.

BG also worked overtime to bring down JQ the first time it happened because if you recall we came from behind back then as well while being weaker than JQ back in those days.

This, I can’t say, since SoR wasn’t fighting BG when that happened. So I’ll take your word for it.

This is a pretty fair assessment in my opinion of the way things work. The OP that this was in response to should have said “BG’s WvW guilds worked their kitten off when you got IRON”

BG absolutely had a huge drop in fair weather players and casuals logging into WvW for a period of time after this. I remember one reset night all we could muster was about 20 people on a commander in a BL during the first hour. During this BG had to endure the same forum posts that are going the other way now; look back and you can see “R.I.P. Blackgate” and ‘Why won’t you fight" posts repeated over and over.

Things will normalize for SoR eventually and they will be as strong as ever. At some point BG will probably go through the same cycle again as well. The only people who will be surprised by this are the ones who haven’t been paying attention.

I agree, fairweather players exist in all servers and BG certainly has experienced the negative impact of low morale before. It’s just surprising how significant the impact is on SoR this time especially given the tenacity SoR displayed previously. Also I feel even SoR’s guilds are not fighting as hard as they used to (the situation is better this week, but week 2 and 3 is really bad).

Jaxs.5830:

Reslinal.2359:

You may not agree with the way it works in T1 being on lower tiers, but this is the game players on Tier 1 have signed up for. and when a T1 server that used to be hard to crack begin to lose its tenacity, it’s going to get called out to hopefully inspire them to come back.

Seriously, does everyone in T1 think they are a special snow flake or is it just a vocal minority? What would make you think us lower tiers do not have this same issue/discussion? Granted less once they made the matchups RNG, but before that was a common discussion every time a balanced tier got transfers.

Regardless of what has happened in the past, do you think it is possible this kind of ‘tipping the scales’ will have a much greater impact on a server in the first competitive league that, for reasons I do not understand, folks were excited about? Being no expert on the intricate and apparently alien minds of T1 players I would think a person’s view of what competition means in GW2 might be influence by such an event.

I am not really sure what you are trying to say here. You asked this question " So you want a good match as long as the scales are tipped in your favor, because if they were tipped in someone else’s favor you could have just worked harder right?" And I just told you that yes all T1 servers (including BG) are expected to fight hard even when other T1 servers tip the scale to their favor. That’s how T1 has always been (maybe lower tiers too but I wouldn’t know) and that is how T1 servers keep morale high and community together.

As for tipping the scale during the league has a bigger impact, it’s hard to say. BG lost a significant portion of MERC, its main oceanic and SEA force right before league starts, it sucked and if you asked anyone around during that time no one on BG or other servers truly believe we still have a high chance of winning T1. But the server decided instead of shooting for second we still are going to come out and fight hard for first even if the chance is low, so our server morale is still high coming into the league despite the 3 losses we suffered beforehand.

At the time of ZDs transfer, another EU guild BuLL is thinking about transferring to SoR and has sent scouts over. However, after the poor showing of SoR in week 2 and week 3, the talk seems to be quiet down a lot. So it’s not like SoR did not have a chance to tip the scale back a bit. It hasn’t materialized yet and I suspect SoR’s poor fighting spirit during that time is probably part of the reason why it hasn’t.

Jaxs.5830:

Reslinal.2359:

Jaxs.5830:

Reslinal.2359:

But it is only one guild and it is only 2 hours, really no reason just for whole server giving up trying all together.

The impact of losing all upgrades every day while you have no one to defend is pretty significant.

It’s not like they don’t have the people to hold stuff in this time zone at all. They used to actually winning this brief time zone with IRON and stay-up late SEA. The coming of ZDs only really just tip the scale towards BG, not completely dominates like right now. The problem is ever since SoR lose week 2 to a dramatic come back, they are completely demoralized and people just stop trying to put in effort to cover this brief time zone. And now it becomes a vicious cycle, no one tries so you lose everything, which discourage more people from trying….

Bottom line is you got bigger to ‘tip the scales’. You are now suggesting your competition just work harder because you want good match-ups. So you want a good match as long as the scales are tipped in your favor, because if they were tipped in someone else’s favor you could have just worked harder right?

This is how Tier 1 has always been. Server’s strength fluctuate as servers gain or lose guilds. However Tier 1 servers usually don’t give up fighting just because you are now suddenly weaker in some small time zones. BG fought hard when JQ outmanned us tremendously when we entered T1 and when SoR just got IRON that allowed them to get on a winning streak, JQ did not give up fighting when they lost guilds and was the weakest T1 server for a while. SoR used to keep fighting hard and give close matches when they had weaker coverages.

So this is the T1 way, you are expected to keep fighting hard even when you know your opponent has temporary better coverage than you and you may not able to win. You keep your server’s morale high through fighting and also work on recruitment to even out the time zones.

You may not agree with the way it works in T1 being on lower tiers, but this is the game players on Tier 1 have signed up for. and when a T1 server that used to be hard to crack begin to lose its tenacity, it’s going to get called out to hopefully inspire them to come back.

Sardonia.8196:

Reslinal.2359:

Elano.2014:

Rebound.3409:

This ^

All in all… even tho we beat SoR pretty convincingly, having a server like SoR fall like this (mentally) is NOT good for T1 matches. Nobody wants that….not BG..not JQ. We want good matches not bad ones.

Hope they get back on their feet and atleast put a good fight with JQ.

SoR isn’t falling (even mentally), just that when you know your stuffs will be capped whenever you log (in my case, ZDs right after SEA), it is hardly worth the effort of upgrading/sieging simply because we don’t have enough people to fight against them.

Look at yesterday: our SEA took the entire BG BL and Maguuma BL, and BG SEA weren’t coming out to fight. So we decided to log off a little bit early, then boom – BG takes all without resistance.

While having a time zone when you are weak and losing stuff is disheartening, it is not the first time that SoR has experienced this kind of problem before. You guys had a similar weak coverage problem during T2 days and also weaker coverage during the early T1 days with BG-SoR-JQ. However never once during those times were you guys such an easy walk-over before, in all 9 weeks in T2, despite having a weaker coverage in more time zones than now, you never loss more than 100k even once and actually put up several closer fights.

So for us it definitely seems something changed in your mentality. You guys were able to compete in some of the current weak time zones before, for example like late NA early oceanic, BG has not got any new guilds in this time zone, and yet you guys don’t even put up a fight now while previously you guys were able to compete whenever you try.

So I guess when we talk about falling apart (mentality), we mean you guys do not have the same tenacity as before and give up much easily. Yeah ZDs is able to tip the balance towards BG during the brief window between SEA and EU (previously SoR actually had the advantage in this time zone). But it is only one guild and it is only 2 hours, really no reason just for whole server giving up trying all together.

The issue is not that SoR has given up or they have stopped playing. The issue is the leagues themselves and what they have caused. Yes BG did get a guild or so. That has hurt SoR, but because of leagues, people are bandwaggoning to the winning servers. You can pretty much see that throughout the Gold Silver and Bronze. Almost all the matches are blow outs. This is not BG fault. There are a lot of players on BG that are upset with what is happening. There are many that want close matches but unfortunetly that is not going to happen with the system that is currently in place.
Until Anets finds a way to somewhat balance out WvW population, WvW will eventually die a slow death.

I think it is less about people bandwaggon to the winning server, but more like BG has high morale right now, so a lot of our pve players and fairweathers are coming out to play. On the other hand, SoR is completely demoralized, so their fairweathers players and serious guilds stop showing up or fight longer. This cause the population imbalance between two servers seems to be much bigger than it actually is.

Jaxs.5830:

Reslinal.2359:

But it is only one guild and it is only 2 hours, really no reason just for whole server giving up trying all together.

The impact of losing all upgrades every day while you have no one to defend is pretty significant.

It’s not like they don’t have the people to hold stuff in this time zone at all. They used to actually winning this brief time zone with IRON and stay-up late SEA. The coming of ZDs only really just tip the scale towards BG, not completely dominates like right now. The problem is ever since SoR lose week 2 to a dramatic come back, they are completely demoralized and people just stop trying to put in effort to cover this brief time zone. And now it becomes a vicious cycle, no one tries so you lose everything, which discourage more people from trying….

Elano.2014:

Rebound.3409:

This ^

All in all… even tho we beat SoR pretty convincingly, having a server like SoR fall like this (mentally) is NOT good for T1 matches. Nobody wants that….not BG..not JQ. We want good matches not bad ones.

Hope they get back on their feet and atleast put a good fight with JQ.

SoR isn’t falling (even mentally), just that when you know your stuffs will be capped whenever you log (in my case, ZDs right after SEA), it is hardly worth the effort of upgrading/sieging simply because we don’t have enough people to fight against them.

Look at yesterday: our SEA took the entire BG BL and Maguuma BL, and BG SEA weren’t coming out to fight. So we decided to log off a little bit early, then boom – BG takes all without resistance.

While having a time zone when you are weak and losing stuff is disheartening, it is not the first time that SoR has experienced this kind of problem before. You guys had a similar weak coverage problem during T2 days and also weaker coverage during the early T1 days with BG-SoR-JQ. However never once during those times were you guys such an easy walk-over before, in all 9 weeks in T2, despite having a weaker coverage in more time zones than now, you never loss more than 100k even once and actually put up several close fights.

So for us it definitely seems something changed in your mentality. You guys were able to compete in some of the current weak time zones before, for example like late NA early oceanic, BG has not got any new guilds in this time zone, and yet you guys don’t even put up a fight now while previously you guys were able to compete whenever you try.

So I guess when we talk about falling apart (mentality), we mean you guys do not have the same tenacity as before and give up much easily. Yeah ZDs is able to tip the balance towards BG during the brief window between SEA and EU (previously SoR actually had the advantage in this time zone). But it is only one guild and it is only 2 hours, really no reason just for whole server giving up trying all together.

deathTouch.9706:

---

Reslinal:
I guess I did not make my point clear. What I am saying is bloodlust actually plays a much more important role in deciding who is going to win in a T1 match-up than in lower tiers where coverage completely dictates results. As a result, small team roaming and winning outnumbered fights in T1 actually contributes significantly to a server’s success.

So if you are looking for an ideal system where “gamemode promoted repeatedly winning outnumbered fights somehow leading to us having a chance at winning server match-ups”, you should consider transferring to a T1 server like JQ or SoR. You will get plenty of fights, both outnumberer and against skilled roamers in BG, while also contribute significantly to your server’s goal of winning T1 matches.
———————————————————————————————————————————————————-

Right, it can have an advantage, but simply securing it and holding onto at least one as Mag facing SoR and BG can be a pretty big challenge.

Overall I think bloodlust was a not-horrible attempt at balancing coverage out a tiny but, but the implementation still favors the higher coverage servers who can afford extra players to deny bloodlust to one or more opponents.

What I am trying to say is holding bloodlust won’t help Mag beating BG, but may actually help JQ to beat BG if you guys are on JQ. So if you want to make a difference to a server’s performance as a roamer (your ideal gamemode), you should consider transferring to a T1 server where coverage problem is less severe. You will still get plenty of fights as you are on Mag, but now your winning will actually have a greater purpose.

deathTouch.9706:

Reslinal.2359:

deathTouch.9706:

Israel.7056:

Deathtouch, you could always move to a server where that won’t happen.

If you choose to play on a server that can’t compete 24/7 then that’s on you.

But I (and I think I can safely say I speak for AoN) don’t play WvW for the PPT. We’re in it because we love being outnumbered and having really challenging fights.

Now, if the gamemode promoted repeatedly winning outnumbered fights somehow leading to us having a chance at winning server match-ups, then I personally would view that as an ideal system and I think we’d all love playing toward an objective-oriented goal at that point in time. If skill of players translated into which server won the week’s match-up, then that would really be an ideal system in my opinion.

It may not be obvious in lower tiers, but in tier 1, the recent bloodlust addition has made small roaming teams really valuable for a T1 server to win in a T1 matchup. If you can continuously win outnumbered and allow your server to keep the bloodlust (or occupy the focus of opponent’s large guild forces in the area like oPP did some time ago), the T1 server will be able to pull ahead in T1 matches. I know BG made a strong point in fighting for bloodlust and our roamers have really contributed significantly.

I know SoR and JQ also tried to compete with us but they don’t have the amount of skilled roamers like we do. So I guess if you truly think winning small fights while contributing to a server wide objective is an ideal system, I would suggest you considering transferring to either SoR or JQ. You would get plenty of fights against roamers from BG and your winning may actually contribute to something greater besides the fun of fighting:)

We do try to secure bloodlust for our team, and it usually works ok for the most part and we usually get decent fights, until a bored BG or SoR zerg comes crashing in with 60 people because there’s nothing left for them to contest on the map cause Mag doesn’t have any coverage to pressure elsewhere. There’s no way we can do it on more than one BL though, that’s pretty much out of the question.

I guess I did not make my point clear. What I am saying is bloodlust actually plays a much more important role in deciding who is going to win in a T1 match-up than in lower tiers where coverage completely dictates results. As a result, small team roaming and winning outnumbered fights in T1 actually contributes significantly to a server’s success.

So if you are looking for an ideal system where “gamemode promoted repeatedly winning outnumbered fights somehow leading to us having a chance at winning server match-ups”, you should consider transferring to a T1 server like JQ or SoR. You will get plenty of fights, both outnumberer and against skilled roamers in BG, while also contribute significantly to your server’s goal of winning T1 matches.

deathTouch.9706:

Israel.7056:

Deathtouch, you could always move to a server where that won’t happen.

If you choose to play on a server that can’t compete 24/7 then that’s on you.

But I (and I think I can safely say I speak for AoN) don’t play WvW for the PPT. We’re in it because we love being outnumbered and having really challenging fights.

Now, if the gamemode promoted repeatedly winning outnumbered fights somehow leading to us having a chance at winning server match-ups, then I personally would view that as an ideal system and I think we’d all love playing toward an objective-oriented goal at that point in time. If skill of players translated into which server won the week’s match-up, then that would really be an ideal system in my opinion.

It may not be obvious in lower tiers, but in tier 1, the recent bloodlust addition has made small roaming teams really valuable for a T1 server to win in a T1 matchup. If you can continuously win outnumbered and allow your server to keep the bloodlust (or occupy the focus of opponent’s large guild forces in the area like oPP did some time ago), the T1 server will be able to pull ahead in T1 matches. I know BG made a strong point in fighting for bloodlust and our roamers have really contributed significantly.

I know SoR and JQ also tried to compete with us but they don’t have the amount of skilled roamers like we do. So I guess if you truly think winning small fights while contributing to a server wide objective is an ideal system, I would suggest you considering transferring to either SoR or JQ. You would get plenty of fights against roamers from BG and your winning may actually contribute to something greater besides the fun of fighting:)

FrownyClown.8402:

hahah i don’t think I wanna solo roam anymore.

Oh come on, roaming in T1 means you will eventually get run over by zergs at some point. Adapt and adjust, Riot and oPP can do it, I am sure mag roamers can too. Grow a thick skin, be a “dwarf”:)

nirvana.8245:

Well this sucks. 400PPT during my prime time and not much opposition apart from turtles inside keeps. Might be time for me to leave BG

Unfortunately SoR seems to have the late NA early oceanic as a really weak spot. I have a feeling next week the table will turned against BG when we are facing JQ at this time zone.

Player Character.9467:

Reslinal.2359:

Player Character.9467:

Reslinal.2359:

x per fection x.2096:

rmprodigy.4679:

Goodjob Sor and Mag.. really glad to see and hear about another group of skilled guilds and players like those on Mag are laughing and realizing how weak BG is.

BG see a group of Mags, Mags see a group of BAGS!

#Mag2013

Moar bags, watch out for that 15 man Mag blob -http://youtu.be/x7dohXUWKAo

Also we have 2 GvG’s so far this week with SoR but none with BG. Would hate to not get one with BG after doing so much PPT just to get into Gold so we could play against T1 guilds.

A lot of BG guilds do not do GvG, they prefer unstaged open field fights. Your best luck would be PLX or maybe OnS on Thursday or Friday when the score is determined.

Score was determined on reset, you don’t need a margin in leagues just to be 1st.

Against Mag yes, but we don’t want to underestimate SoR or any T1 servers and will only consider the score is determined when a clear victory is guaranteed against them.

Oh please, you know as well as the rest of us that you can take SoR in a ppt race. When it comes to holding SoR’s garrison tho ur on equal footing.

Maybe to you who are not familiar with T1 fights. Just in the second week since League starts BG came back from an almost 20k deficit on the weekend. And before that happened, many people also believed that SoR was surely going to win the ppt race in that week.

If you are interested I can give you several more examples of a perceived weaker T1 server came back from a big deficit and actually took the win, some times even on the last day.

Player Character.9467:

Reslinal.2359:

x per fection x.2096:

rmprodigy.4679:

Goodjob Sor and Mag.. really glad to see and hear about another group of skilled guilds and players like those on Mag are laughing and realizing how weak BG is.

BG see a group of Mags, Mags see a group of BAGS!

#Mag2013

Moar bags, watch out for that 15 man Mag blob -http://youtu.be/x7dohXUWKAo

Also we have 2 GvG’s so far this week with SoR but none with BG. Would hate to not get one with BG after doing so much PPT just to get into Gold so we could play against T1 guilds.

A lot of BG guilds do not do GvG, they prefer unstaged open field fights. Your best luck would be PLX or maybe OnS on Thursday or Friday when the score is determined.

Score was determined on reset, you don’t need a margin in leagues just to be 1st.

Against Mag yes, but we don’t want to underestimate SoR or any T1 servers and will only consider the score is determined when a clear victory is guaranteed against them.

x per fection x.2096:

rmprodigy.4679:

Goodjob Sor and Mag.. really glad to see and hear about another group of skilled guilds and players like those on Mag are laughing and realizing how weak BG is.

BG see a group of Mags, Mags see a group of BAGS!

#Mag2013

Moar bags, watch out for that 15 man Mag blob -http://youtu.be/x7dohXUWKAo

Also we have 2 GvG’s so far this week with SoR but none with BG. Would hate to not get one with BG after doing so much PPT just to get into Gold so we could play against T1 guilds.

A lot of BG guilds do not do GvG, they prefer unstaged open field fights. Your best luck would be PLX or maybe OnS on Thursday or Friday when the score is determined.

Glad to see SoR is fighting harder compared to last week. Rebuilding a server’s morale after a crash is a hard task and it’s really good to see you guys are getting there.

Watching the video gives me the feeling that Tyler is too interested in the fun of fighting bosses rather than showing us around:)

Deli.1302:

Let’s take a moment to wish DIE all the best as they seek out greener pastures and shorter queues. Have fun in Ebay!

Can someone confirm what he said that DIE transferred to Ebay? If it is true then that’s just really bad timing on their part after they made the post about challenging whole BG.

To those on SoR who wants to play king maker in match 7, you should also try to play hard next match. Even if you don’t win next match, as long as you keep the match close to the end of the week, BG’s guilds will get tired and may affect their performance against JQ in week 5:)

KeeZee.7312:

Still waiting for BG to produce some facts on how SoR was dominating them going into league.

Basicaly what BG and ZD is saying is SoR had greater ppt than them for an hour 1 day out of the week and that made them under dogs.

Funny how BG keeps on ignoring the numbers that clearly show BG was the dominant server going into leagues. Sorry ZD, you went to the stacked server who was already in a good position to win….you will forever be tainted by this move.

I will give you one last try. Your 14 week measure is flawed because relative server strength change all the time as guilds move between servers. To get a more accurate measure of perceived BG strength vs SoR before we entered league, the performance of the previous 3 weeks before league starts is better because it is right after another significant guilds shift among servers (BG losing its core guild MERC). During that 3 weeks, BG got beaten by SoR twice and also lost to JQ, which indicates that at least before League starts, BG seems to be the weakest among the three.

Due to the nature of how server strength change of over time, using long historical records is not accurate, just like we cannot claim JQ is the strongest server because it won T1 the most with 19 times….

KeeZee.7312:

UnrepentantProcrastinator.7420:

KeeZee.7312:

BG always says they are undermanned and need more players….doesn’t make it true.

Sorry ZD, but you tainted yourselves when you moved to the already stacked server who was winning against both SoR and JQ in their heads up matches before leagues started.

I do enjoy BG telling SoR that they aren’t showing up to cover that BG stacked themselves to the point where there is no competition. Even though they already had a very dominant winning record vs SoR when heads up.

SoR won the 1v1 with BG before Leagues. And if BG winning Week 1 was indicative of their superior coverage, then weeks ago when JQ won T1 after returning from T2 should’ve indicated that they were then, even before MERC, the strongest server.

As for BG telling SoR that they aren’t showing up. Look at the MOS scores for the weekend.

OMG….SoR won 1 match….stop the presses…what is the world coming to.

I guess the fact that BG has won 13 out of the last 14 matches means nothing….lol

No offense, but you do realize coverage in T1 servers fluctuate all the time? Past winning record has no indication of server strength at any time, otherwise JQ would always be the strongest server in T1 since they have the most win records…

Yeah, I don’t agree having a Karma train on Thursday. We are better than this guys:)

Axle.5182:

UK is EU west starting at 10am server time and we don’t hit full representation until 11am server time (7pm for us) ZD’s being EU east reaches full numbers before we start and only starts to break down as were gaining momentum but tbh recently we have logged in to situations where everything has been flipped and or reinforced and our job is pretty tough with BG having such an advantage.

We simply do not have the capacity to run multiple groups with sufficient numbers to tackle all those objectives, EU for us lately is a dead zone where were struggling to get more than 10 people on some maps to follow a commander whilst out manned.

Proof today on SOR bl we logged into a blue map we gathered about enough to take garry back and only because BG was busy flipping HILLS from SOS we did not have the capacity to simultaneously defend or attack towers whilst keeping our supply lines open from measly 3 man groups from SOS and BG.

I am sorry to hear that. Hopefully your server morale improves for the coming match-up and you guys get more fun:)

Boulderbolg.3460:

Butter.3024:

But yeah there are a small time zone about 2-3 hours where SoR is extremely weak and unfortunately that is ZD prime time, we lose EVERYTHING

We lost garri about an hour ago and ZD is running rampage PvD with no resistance

Unless PPT is all they care about, I can see them getting burned out soon. The game is no fun without people to fight. The EU servers are probably where ZD truly belongs.

It’s probably just hard for them to find fights in EU servers as in NA servers. They fit into the same time zone for EU as EU guilds fit in NA time zone. At least in NA they get to fight late SEA guilds early on then fight EU guilds if they stay late.

Samhayn.2385:

Azure Prower.8701:

Samhayn.2385:

I’m not on BG, but is still don’t get the BG hate. We all know wvw is a coverage war and BG played the meta better then the rest of us. Grats to them.

at this point all we can do is hope Anet reviews it, sees that PPT is kitten and does something about it. I know you can’t fix coverage or population but things can be done to stop servers from getting an insurmountable lead because they are ticking 500 PPT uncontested for hours.

The real answer as given by Anet is that nothing can be done about it.

To give special treatment to players who play at a certain time of day would be a big middle finger to the other.

The only thing you can do is… Deal with it.

horse kitten answer. You could shift PPT to a points per capture/kill/defend system. During off hours for you server yeah a server with better coverage will capture 95% of everything. This will give them a boost in points but since they only get it for the capture it won’t keep ticking away. The out manned servers can then concentrait on taking what they can hold and then defend those points. This wont fix coverage or population but it makes it less of a big deal and gives more servers a fighting chance.

I play on SoR just for full discloser.

The closest thing we have to that is ppt on stomp the pre-nerf version and ANET decided to change it….BG players tried to put up a fight but not many come joining us.

Can someone give me a more clear answer when BuLL is transferring over?:)

Seigfried.5938:

Reslinal.2359:

Has BuLL finished transferring yet? Can’t wait to fight them, heh.

Who are they?

I heard they are a 30-40 good Spanish guild. They should have started transferring last week or early this week.

Has BuLL finished transferring yet? Can’t wait to fight them, heh.

Aurust.8961:

The problem right now is that the fights tipped from " Epic large scale battles" to face smash.

Earlier in SOS BL during SEA, we had relatively even numbers, and some fun fights both sides wiping the other several times.

The commander leading the mixed group of rallians had to go due to wife aggro, so I tagged up and moved what remained of my guild still playing to combine forces.

BG then shows up with a hyper blob, with a large nucleus of ND. I’m the commander at this point and been playing already for 7 hours. After a few wipes it becomes clear that with that ND nucleus + full map blob, SOR has zero chance of winning a field fight.

The fights tipped from epic to facesmash. Now in my mind, im already tired from playing for 7 hours and got stuff to do in real life. Now if the fights were even sort of winnable, i may have persevered etc. But i just said eff it… too tired gotta go. No commander to replace and SOS BL basically became abandoned.

This is what I am sure is happening with alot of people. The fights simply reached a tipping point from “fun” to just annoying blob faceroll, and a larger portion of people are simply saying/ thinking “Meh been playing for a while now, just gonna go do something else”.

Dunno if you want to call that giving up, but that is the problem of overstacking. I wouldn’t quit call it demoralization, but a lack of motivation to persevere. ( Especially since this is in fact a video game that is meant to be fun.)

Combine this with the fact, that there is no chance for SOS to take second over SOR, and there is no chance of SOR taking first even if we all pull massive unhealthy overtimes, there is simply not enough motivation. All of our guild still come out for their regular raid times, but not as much beyond that.

All T1 servers have been having queues (and you guys did too in the previous two weeks before you start losing), so the argument that BG overstacked and has larger force on map just isn’t true. Now what maybe you are seeing is that your militia have low morale and not show up, which make you seem to have inferior numbers when in fact during normal times you would not. Don’t blame your outnumbered fights to BG’s overstacking when it is the consequence of your server’s morale management.

UnrepentantProcrastinator.7420:

Peetee.9406:

Which precursors? If they were Venom, I’m not impressed.

Actually, DKNS is wrong, we gave them each an Eternity.

Plus a private jet in real life for each member.

Peetee.9406:

Riv,

I appreciate the concern but its unnecessary. The same dedicated core that’s been fighting you since T2 is still here, we’re just playing less.

In the past Rallians and Beastgaters were putting in the same amount of hours everyday. The time being in the 6-8 hour range. Right now our guys are only putting in 2 hours a night so it appears like we’re losing people but we’re not. Similar to your guys playing 12 hours a day so it gives the appearance you have more than what you do.

I’ll worry if we no show in the week 7 match but WvW was never intended to be a 1v1 so there’s really no concern on our end about the poor attendance.

I think it is precisely this drop of play time from 6 hours down to 2 hours that we are worried about. There is a fine line to walk between “play for fights” and “giving up due to losing”. I believe “play for fights” means you guys come out play 6 hours (or whatever your usual hours is) regardless win or lose. When the play time suddenly drops to 2 hours when you are losing, people have to wonder are you not deriving the same enjoyments from fights anymore when you are losing in ppt?

During times when going gets tough, it is easy for militias to get demoralized and start to play less, it is the WvW guilds that need to held your chin high and come out and play as much as you are used to in order to hold server morale, otherwise it is only a matter of time before people get disgruntled and leave the server. We are not asking SoR to play 12 hours like some on BG does, but SoR guilds need to at least play your usual amount of hours to hold your reputation as only “play for fights” and to hold your server up. This is what you guys did in T2 and you were a hard nut to crack back then. However, many are worried that we are not seeing the same SoR attitude as back in T2 now.

Elano.2014:

Reslinal.2359:

Elano.2014:

Reslinal.2359:

Hmm..I just read it again, do you mean the PVX guild since that seems to be the only mentioned. What time zone is that guild and how big it is, sorry I never seen the guild before:)

I was talking about Titan’s guild.

Eh? Titan has been on BG for quite a while, way before League starts if I remember….And i thought that post about Titan was just trolling…

Go read his original post before asking any more questions please. You’ve got to keep yourself informed to stay competitive and survive in teh PvF battle…

Ah, so Titan is trying to reform his guild, good luck with him:) Though it’s really not a new guild BG is getting since it’s already on BG to start with? If Titan can convince some of his former members to come back, all power to him I guess

Elano.2014:

Reslinal.2359:

Hmm..I just read it again, do you mean the PVX guild since that seems to be the only mentioned. What time zone is that guild and how big it is, sorry I never seen the guild before:)

I was talking about Titan’s guild.

Eh? Titan has been on BG for quite a while, way before League starts if I remember….And i thought that post about Titan was just trolling…

Elano.2014:

Reslinal.2359:

But my question is since some of your SoR have been claiming that BG got more guilds than ZD which I am completely unaware of, can some SoR provide some clear answer as to what guilds are they, what timezone they play and how big are they etc?

Read page 2 again, it’s already answered. :/

Hmm..I just read it again, do you mean the PVX guild since that seems to be the only mentioned. What time zone is that guild and how big it is, sorry I never seen the guild before:)

Can SoR let us know when will BULL transfer over? Heard someone has seen some BULL’s tag already. I know a lot of people on BG are eager to fight the new EU guild:)