Guild Wars 2

Acandis.3250:

Rusc.4978:

My only issue with Moa Form is that there’s no in-game way to learn what the skills do before you’re Moa’d in combat.

Trying to read all of the skill facts when you get moa’d?

Go fight the Mesmer AI in HoTM. He’ll Moa you every time it’s up.
If you need more than 10s to press 5 abilities, then I recommend you commit this to memory: http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Polymorph_Moa
If both of those are still not good enough… sol psi.

I wasn’t aware that the Mesmer AI used that elite. My mistake. That’s not particularly friendly for new players—the people most likely to struggle with Moa—since I don’t recall the NPCs being very well-advertised, but my memories of the tutorial are hopefully out-of-date.

Also, I specified in-game in my original post; you shouldn’t have to read the wiki to learn game mechanics. However, since the Mesmer NPC uses Moa Form, it’s a moot point.

Chaith.8256:

Rusc.4978:

You’re both quite right that Engineer isn’t the only class with a balance issue, but that doesn’t mean the problems with Engineer should be ignored because there’s other stuff wrong.

I think it’s smarter to shave Celestial amulet, battle sigil, and fire field blasts. Or other things in common that’s elevating bruiser Eles, Engies, and Warriors above support and burst archetypes.

It’s a battle of playstyles we should be talking about here, not profession.

Gear balance is a tricky discussion, but I think that’s where the core of the balancing issues are. It’s difficult to objectively balance profession skills when build effectiveness can swing so widely with gear choice, and there seems to be a trend of buffing gear, and then nerfing the builds that synchronize with the gear instead of nerfing the gear. S/D Thief, for example.

I’d like to see a complete rework of the gear system so that buildcrafting isn’t so dependent on accessory benefits, but I think it’s more likely for me to look out my window today and see a flock of pigs migrating south for the winter.

Predict the burst and preemptively dodge.

Or, to use professional terminology, luckdodge.

Chaith.8256:

If you can tell me what weaknesses Warriors and Elementalists have that are more exploitable than Engineers, then you will have a decent point.

(You can’t, because Elementalists and Warriors have an even more impermeable defense, with fewer exploitable weaknesses.)

JinDaVikk.7291:

I just love how everybody starts twisting words, making crap up, and jumping on the engi with no basis. Srsly people there are FAR FAR more worrying builds, professions, Un-counterable poop, and broken mechanics, bugs, No qol updates and the list goes on and on. Yet you harp on engis.

Your priorities are way off.

You’re both quite right that Engineer isn’t the only class with a balance issue, but that doesn’t mean the problems with Engineer should be ignored because there’s other stuff wrong.

Bravo, Pi.

I really don’t know why they haven’t changed this yet. The hobosacks are a pointless eyesore. If I don’t know what kit an Engi has when they start throwing grenades at me or laying down bombs, a brown backpack is not going to help me.

Not to mention the fact that the hobosacks for tool kit and bomb kit look completely identical.

kolompi.1287:

Or you know, you could…. dodge when you hear the quite obvious and unique sound this skill makes. It takes 1 second to activate it, how much more do you need? A passive trait that would make it fail 50% of the time eh?

The thought of Moa Form being on a passive trait made me choke on my juice.

Necrotize.2974:

Rusc.4978:

Cynz.9437:

thief changes:
- bountiful theft should prioritize stability and aegis, right now it completely ignores aegis
- every 3rd attack on thief AA chain should go through the block/invul

Having Bountiful Theft prioritize stability and aegis enables Thieves to steal with no regard to tactical thinking, and invalidates the whole purpose of those two boons.

I could understand an unblockable attack in the sword auto chain, since the sword is more about sustain and control. But dagger is about burst damage, and is designed around capitalizing on Backstab. The 4s of poison currently on the third chain skill makes more sense for that purpose, since poison neuters healing and leaves targets vulnerable.

Why should anything go through invulnerability? The few skills that provide invuln have short durations, long cooldowns, and leave the user unable to capture points in a PvP format that revolves around capturing points. And, as mentioned with stability and aegis, it would invalidate the whole point of the mechanic.

Except it was meant to do that from the start and it did for quite a while. Only recently does it not IIRC. If you are say, a S/P thief, you probably don’t go into stealth, meaning you rely on evades and dazes/stuns. Stability completely negates your stuns, so thieves need a way to deal with classes that can achieve long duration of stability. I fail to see though how a single steal that strips stability would completely invalidate stability. Just wait till they steal, then stab up. You say the thief isn’t tactical for having steal strip stability, but isn’t it just as passive to pop stability as soon as you see a S/P thief and watch their bursts fizzle until stability is gone? Steal prioritizing stability and aegis is important to the class due to the nature of their attacks. Stealth attacks, venoms, stuns on first hits or chain skills reliant on the first skill hitting all are severely hindered by blocks or invulnerability( although I personally think invulnerability is fine and nothing needs to go through it) and can mean the difference between a burst succeeding or failing.

At no point did I say that Thief as a whole isn’t a tactical class, but being able to Steal without regard to stability or aegis is not tactical. Part of playing a burst spec is ensuring that you can proc your burst, and for Thief that includes steal.

If you have a class with access to stability, and you pop that to avoid an interrupt you know is coming, that is the whole idea behind stability as a boon. It’s counterplay to cc and stunlocking in a game with no diminishing returns on cc. Allowing selective cc to ignore stability hurts the integrity of the boon, and on a larger note, it hurts the integrity of the combat system in general.

This is not to say that one skill that blows through stability completely ruins GW2 combat, but it leads to situations like the "maybe it will work, maybe it won’t" nature of reflects.

Also, if a S/P thief is repeatedly blowing their cc/burst while the other player has stability up, that isn’t the fault of the other player.

My only issue with Moa Form is that there’s no in-game way to learn what the skills do before you’re Moa’d in combat.

Trying to read all of the skill facts when you get moa’d?

Cynz.9437:

thief changes:
- bountiful theft should prioritize stability and aegis, right now it completely ignores aegis
- every 3rd attack on thief AA chain should go through the block/invul

Having Bountiful Theft prioritize stability and aegis enables Thieves to steal with no regard to tactical thinking, and invalidates the whole purpose of those two boons.

I could understand an unblockable attack in the sword auto chain, since the sword is more about sustain and control. But dagger is about burst damage, and is designed around capitalizing on Backstab. The 4s of poison currently on the third chain skill makes more sense for that purpose, since poison neuters healing and leaves targets vulnerable.

Why should anything go through invulnerability? The few skills that provide invuln have short durations, long cooldowns, and leave the user unable to capture points in a PvP format that revolves around capturing points. And, as mentioned with stability and aegis, it would invalidate the whole point of the mechanic.

dancingmonkey.4902:

I will gladly give you the knock back off of any of my various professions, if the knock back is replaces with an AoE stealth I can spam.

If Thieves were given more CC, I’d be fine with giving other professions access to stealth. I think people would QQ less about “stealth spam” less if they actually played around with it.

Roe.3679:

Who is OP right now? I honestly can’t name a class or spec. Honest question.

I think it really comes down to what people are talking about when they say “OP”.

If we’re talking about builds that are low-risk and high-reward within a given role, then I’m sure most players can come up with at least one subjective example. If a spec is widely considered to be “OP” in this way, then it can be balanced to be brought back in line with the standard risk/reward ratio—which is also subjective.

If we’re talking about a build or class that hard-counters another build or class, then that’s generally the nature of MMOs, and that’s likely subjective as well.

Related picture is related.

Revoke.1425:

It should be more visual indeed, “!” could be good…I mean, I can see when I’m bleeding, I can see when I have confusion etc, sometimes your pg also shout out when he is hit by certain conditions. Why I have to lock my eyes on a status bar only for “revealed”? Shouldn’t gw2 be the game where you pay attention on players instead of status bar?

I’ve always been under the impression that ArenaNet didn’t want players to play by the icons in the effects monitor, which is the main reason that I’m confused by the current implementation of Revealed.

Stof mentioned it earlier in this thread, and—although I couldn’t find a specific quote from them about it—that intent of “not forcing players to watch the icons” seems to be implied with the current system of interaction indicators and UI effects, both graphical and audio. Even Torment, a late-added condition, got a visually distinct effect.

While I think Revealed felt like a band-aid fix to stealth spam, I think the lack of indication that Revealed has been applied is the bigger issue. Especially when everything else in the game seems to encourage the player to focus on animations and UI instead of tiny icons.

shimmerless.4560:

There is a very simple change that would make life infinitely easier for Mesmers and it’s to make portal a class mechanic instead of a utility skill. Bam, now you have room for one cleanse.

Cynz.9437:

Esplen.3940:

I think it’s client-side. I don’t run into the problem on my laptop, while I do run into it running off my school desktops.

At first, I thought it had to do with graphics settings, but that shouldn’t affect rounding and calculations, so logically it would have to be something else client-related.

Just some food for thought.

anet did say it is related to how game handles latency… i guess they changed something when they tried to fix immob bug and now it messes up all port/movement spells

And the immob bug still exists.

coglin.1867:

I do not recall mentioning anything about visual. I was speaking purely in the context of audio. To my knowledge the only visual cue mentioned in this thread, was someone expressing changes to the icon that currently exist.

I was replying to both you and dancingmonkey. I thought that referencing both of your comments in the beginning of my response would have signified that, but I apologize if it did not.

I took this portion of their comment as a reference to visual cues:

dancingmonkey.4902:

As long as all stealth or stealth combos have a 1s delay before stealth applies

The fact that people with this kind of kitten attitude can be even remotely successful in an MMO makes me feel embarrassed for the whole gaming community.

For Engineers:

The toolbelt skill Toss Elixir S lacks a cast time, but has a clear visual cue and a 60s cooldown. Cloaking Device is conditional.

For Rangers:

Hunter’s Shot is an avoidable projectile that requires a successful hit to proc the stealth. Blinding Tuft has an interruptable half second cast and must be foraged with a pig or warthog, which compete with every other pet including cats, dogs, and spiders. The jaguar’s Stalk skill only applies stealth to the jaguar, and has a 30s cooldown. Hide in Plain Sight is conditional and the invisibility is removed upon movement.

For Mesmers:

Decoy has no cast time, but has a 40s cooldown; as a utility, it also competes with Null Field, Portal, and Blink. Veil has a short window for interrupt, but a 90s cooldown and a clear wall; like Decoy, it competes with other utilities. The Prestige has a 30s cooldown and requires offhand torch—which I think is worth mentioning, since the Phantasmal Mage is widely considered atrocious. Mass Invisibility has a one and three-quarter second cast time, a clear animation, and a 90s cooldown; as an elite, it competes with Time Warp and Polymorph Moa. Desperate Decoy is similar in function to Last Refuge and the ICD doesn’t benefit from Illusionist’s Celerity .

I think that’s all of them. So which ones do you guys think deserve a better cue?

Edits: formatting 2 stronk. Pls nerf.

dancingmonkey.4902:

As long as all stealth or stealth combos have a 1s delay before stealth applies, and we get an audio indicator that gives a 1s opportunity to counter with a skill that applies reveal.

coglin.1867:

So the counter to that would be, that since stealth is a counter to the vast majority of skills in the entire game, the larger portion of the community deserves an audio cue to offer a chance to counter it long before you deserve an audio cue that it is countered. So it seems rather fair that the majority gets reasonably congruent treatment to what you are claiming that the minority deserves.

You both mention the audio/visual indicators of stealth skills. Which stealth applicators are unfair and/or lack a cue? In case you are unsure about which stealth-application skill is which for Thieves:

Hide in Shadows has an interruptible 1s cast. Cloak and Dagger has a half second channel and requires a hit to proc. Black Powder and Smoke Screen both have a half second cast, a clear audio/visual cue, and require a combo with Heartseeker or Cluster Bomb. Heartseeker has a distinct, interruptable animation and requires a combo with Black Powder or Smoke Screen. Cluster Bomb has a distinct animation. Blinding Tuft has an interruptable half second cast. Shadow Refuge is a utility skill with a 60s cooldown, and has a distinct audio cue as well as a large floating house icon over the refuge; it applies Revealed to anyone who leaves the boundary of the refuge before the skill has finished pulsing.

Blinding Powder lacks a clear cue in PvP, as far as I know, but has a 40s cooldown; as a utility skill, it competes with every other Thief utility, including Shadow Refuge, Infiltrator’s Signet, and Shadowstep.

As for traits: Hidden Thief requires speccing into Shadow Arts, which is an unpopular traitline in PvP due to the inability to contest points in stealth, and it competes with Shadow’s Embrace and Cloaked in Shadow. Instinctual Response is conditional and directly competes with Flanking Strikes , Thrill of the Crime , and Long Reach . Last Refuge is one of the most hated Thief traits due to its capacity to trigger mid-animation and almost immediately apply Revealed. Descent of Shadows is conditional and competes with the other adept traits in Acrobatics, including Power of Inertia and Vigorous Recovery .

Azure The Heartless.3261:

Metal gear detected sound when revealed

!

Works for me.

The only “Rar” I know is Falchii’s character. This Rar is clearly an impersonator.

NinjaEd.3946:

Prince.7198:

Arenanet look at this again please. Theif is borderline extinct in Spvp!

I disagree, but the population certainly has gone down since they’ve been essentially skyrocketing the skill floor on our builds so that little mistakes have a more heavy punishment so new players are less inclined to bother with playing a thief.

Even so, the bigger issue is they nerf 1 build and don’t open up a new one. I don’t care if 2/0/0/6/6 fire/air s/d gets toned down although the skills in s/d were not at fault. But why are we getting mediocre attention towards other builds, where is the diversity?

Don’t be ridiculous. They’ve been buffing venomshare.

Curunen.8729:

Rusc.4978:

Curunen.8729:

Rusc.4978:

Curunen.8729:

If it is a 5v4 and the team with 5 is say more than 200 (arbitrary number) points in the lead, autobalance should force it to a 4v5 in favour of the losing team. No one in spectate be allowed to join the winning team until the points difference is say less than 100 (subject to change).

That would essentially punish people for winning.

Only if the teams are unbalanced in numbers – if it’s equal numbers then this doesn’t take effect.

In any case at least it would ensure reasonably “balanced” fights instead of one team whitewashing the other.

Your suggestion would make autobalance abuse easier and more prevalent than it currently is, since any one person in an even game would be able to force an autobalance at will.

Even resetting personal score to 0 upon entering spectate wouldn’t discourage people, since rank point earnings aren’t based solely on personal score anymore.

Would not be able to force autobalance unless there was a >200 point (or more, maybe 300) score difference – simply dropping out to spectate won’t force a player to switch unless there’s a significant difference, by which time the match should be over.

I agree it’s a poor band aid, but can you suggest something that would work better?

My mistake, then. This is why I should not browse the forums when I’m sleep-deprived.

Even with all of its annoyances, I think hotjoin serves its basic intended purpose as a casual PvP environment. It’s not meant to be the epitome of balanced teamfighting, and I think trying to impose strict balancing regulations will demoralize people.

I think the better solution to autobalance/spectate camping is to offer better incentives for participating on a losing team, like a “volunteer” bonus aside from the win bonus given to autobalanced players.

I would even go so far as to suggest giving small but equal rewards for both teams, regardless of win or loss, and perhaps even remove hotjoin matches from counting in the games played/games won section of the PvP tab.

My ideal hotjoin would be a venue to have fun, kill time, and learn the maps, but not much else.

Curunen.8729:

Rusc.4978:

Curunen.8729:

If it is a 5v4 and the team with 5 is say more than 200 (arbitrary number) points in the lead, autobalance should force it to a 4v5 in favour of the losing team. No one in spectate be allowed to join the winning team until the points difference is say less than 100 (subject to change).

That would essentially punish people for winning.

Only if the teams are unbalanced in numbers – if it’s equal numbers then this doesn’t take effect.

In any case at least it would ensure reasonably “balanced” fights instead of one team whitewashing the other.

Your suggestion would make autobalance abuse easier and more prevalent than it currently is, since any one person in an even game would be able to force an autobalance at will.

Even resetting personal score to 0 upon entering spectate wouldn’t discourage people, since rank point earnings aren’t based solely on personal score anymore.

Curunen.8729:

If it is a 5v4 and the team with 5 is say more than 200 (arbitrary number) points in the lead, autobalance should force it to a 4v5 in favour of the losing team. No one in spectate be allowed to join the winning team until the points difference is say less than 100 (subject to change).

That would essentially punish people for winning.

kaikalii.4198:

By mechanically intense I mean the necessity of pressing the most buttons in the best order with the best timing in order to be successful.

With the definition of pressing the most buttons, I would say Engineer or Ele. They are not necessarily more difficult, since they both have incredible versatility and the potential for great sustain, but they have a lot of buttons compared to everyone else.

In terms of precision and/or timing, I would say Thief and Mesmer. There’s a low skill floor for both classes—particularly Thief—but the skill ceiling is incredibly high.

Bumping for relevance, since the lack of Revealed UI is still a fixable annoyance.

Deimos Tel Arin.7391:

Rusc.4978:

Well, three things came to mind:

1. I think 1 and 2 would destroy the actual function of spectate, particularly the facet of choosing to watch skilled players as a learning experience.

2. No one is going to want to join a game in progress knowing they’ll be shunted onto the losing team, especially if there’s no way of knowing how big the point gap is until you’re in the match.

3. Being forced to use a custom server just so I can reliably play on a team with my friends—without the pressure of a ranked match—does not sound like an enjoyable PvP development.

thanks for the feedback, but

1. showing both the team scores and player scores would also allow spectators (both old and new) to join the “winning team” or “potential winning team” more easily.

also, both team scores and personal scores are not a very good indicator of “skilled players” since anyone can just tag along “skilled players” to quickly inflate their personal scores.

2. this is to prevent further team stacking on the team that is already losing behind in term of points.

the only group of people that will be affected by this change, are those who only wish to tag along the winning team in order to farm their wins and progress track rewards.

3. team stacking (the so called “playing together with friends” thing) is one of the most serious problems in hotjoin (anet official severs) and to be honest, real friends dun mind killing one another when they are on opposing teams.

i think these 3 fixes are good, and will make hotjoin a healthier place for new players.

I understand where you’re coming from, but I think my counterpoints for 1 and 2 are still valid. What is the point of spectate if I can’t choose who I watch? One of the biggest annoyances with watching tournament streams is the inability to choose which players I spectate.

Your second point might fix team stacking, but again, no one is going to want to join games in progress without being able to see what their disadvantage is going to be. Also, cherry-pickers will simply start waiting in 4v4s or lower until someone is joined to the losing team, and then proceed to join the winning one.

As for your third point, “playing with friends” is not one in the same as team stacking, since stacking implies that the “stackers” are carrying the game. And being on opposing team can be fun—sometimes. But that is not the same thing as being unable to choose where I play because of hotjoin mechanics. It’s going to suck the fun out of playing with friends if I can never play alongside them in normal servers.

Edit: typing is hard.

Well, three things came to mind:

1. I think 1 and 2 would destroy the actual function of spectate, particularly the facet of choosing to watch skilled players as a learning experience.

2. No one is going to want to join a game in progress knowing they’ll be shunted onto the losing team, especially if there’s no way of knowing how big the point gap is until you’re in the match.

3. Being forced to use a custom server just so I can reliably play on a team with my friends—without the pressure of a ranked match—does not sound like an enjoyable PvP development.

In my opinion, Agility Training should be innate in the profession, not a trait.

A wolf should be able to outrun a person.

NinjaEd.3946:

-made fire and air sigils behave as the same type so they cannot be combined
-lowered the might duration on power of inertia to 10 seconds
-reworked all the traits thief does not use in acrobatics to invent something new for a change
-took a sledge hammer to AE until it disappeared into the SA trait line(pun intended)
-removed the cast time on IR
-lastly, left FS-> LS alone because it wasn’t a problem :/

hihey.1075:

I wrote a long post but the forums got dizzy and lost it.
Won’t type again, but Trotsky, just know this: S/D is now a BALANCED set. Before, it was not.
You want damage? Go CS. You want survivability and sustain? Go Acro. You want utility? Go Trickery.
Your choice. You can’t have all 3 together anymore.

You couldn’t have all 3 of those lines together to begin with, since we only have 14 trait points.

In my opinion, S/D was fine until the strength rune meta was introduced. Strength runes synchronized too well with Power of Inertia and Feline Grace, and with sigil procs the set could provide too much damage with little to no commitment into the damage trait lines.

ArenaNet’s response to this was to leave strength runes as they are, nerf the damage of the set, and make evade spam easier. I agree that the set needed a change, but I disagree that this is balanced now.

Personally, I think there should have been changes to the concurrent passive benefits.

Phaeton.9582:

The day people learn the counter to necro is through active mitigation and control, not through condi cleanse…..

My guard beats them without running 20 in valour. My s/f ele beats them with one condi removed every 10 seconds. That should say it all really <3

Teach me, sensei.

Terrahero.9358:

It isnt just a QoL improvement. A ding and a flashing taskbar when your queu for WvW pops, while you were busy watching youtube videos is a QoL improvement.

This is asking for the game to take over a part of your responsibility as a player to not misuse your abilities.

Effects like the Aegis shield and the Confusion swirls seem extraneous, then.

I agree that the queue pop change would be nice.

I’ve mained Thief for a long time, but I’m gradually switching over to Ele. Thief is great within its specialized role, but Ele is versatile and performs well in several different roles.

I also think Ele is more stimulating to play, although I have fun on both classes.

dancingmonkey.4902:

Rusc.4978:

I ignored it because I don’t understand how it’s relevant. I’m asking for a UI change to bring Revealed up to the same perceptibility as other conditions.

It is relevant because you are trying to use the guise that you care about the other professions, or claim to know what they need, when you have no knowledge or experience of them. You appear to have not mentioned or discussed any other profession in your post history. As well, the change would clearly benefit the thief the most by far.

A Revealed UI change like the one I’m suggesting would, in my opinion, benefit anyone who relies on stealth as a part of their skill set, or anyone who wishes to combo stealth. Stealth use isn’t solely limited to Thieves—which is a fact—and that is the only “claim” I have made on the subject.

I would appreciate it if we could at least pretend to stay on the topic of changing Revealed UI instead of flaming. Your dislike of this idea has been noted.

You may continue attacking my post history and how my time is spent in game, of course—how dare I mention the other professions with stealth skills!—but I’m not going to continue responding.

coglin.1867:

Rusc.4978:

I congratulate you on the dedication it took to go through every post in my post history, especially the ones prior to yesterday that were 1 year+ old.

Umm, I think he was making fun of your, er, umm……..less then stellar reputation, from your sometimes unrealistic past suggestions in favor of thieves. Particular after you mention several other profession.

I mentioned several other professions because they are also effected by Revealed, even if it is to a less dramatic degree. I also mentioned players using combos to give stealth to a group.

Again, I refer back to the fact that I haven’t used this forums account in over a year, until yesterday. Many of my past suggestions could be outdated; I haven’t looked, and honestly don’t care.

coglin.1867:

I see you dodged the question about your time and experience in each of the professions. How long have you played the professions you mentioned?

I ignored it because I don’t understand how it’s relevant. I’m asking for a UI change to bring Revealed up to the same perceptibility as other conditions.

If everyone is really so interested in my characters, across both accounts I have: a level 80 Thief, a level 80 Ranger, a level 80 Ele, a second Ele at level 66, a level 53 Engineer, two level 30 Mesmers, a third Mesmer at level 7, a second Ranger at level 4, a level 3 Guardian, a level 2 Guardian, and a level 1 Warrior. I’m afraid I didn’t log into each individual character to get my total hours for each class, and I can only guess at the hours I’ve flushed with deleted characters.

I’m on step 4 of the 12-step altaholic program (praise Dwayna), but I’m thinking about making a second Engineer.

dancingmonkey.4902:

Such as an animation that shows a stealthed player about to attack you, so you have the option to counter it with a dodge or block. We already discussed this. Did you not read the thread?

Rusc.4978:

dancingmonkey.4902:

If he cared about actual quality of life, he would have asked this for all buffs/debufs that would effect various profession.

Such as?

I have indeed read the thread, and I’m afraid you haven’t answered my question. You specifically referred to buffs/debuffs that affect other professions, and that was what I quoted when I asked for examples.

dancingmonkey.4902:

You have 135 post and not once do you post about anything outside of benefiting thieves, bugs, or issues, that related very specifically to you. You never once posted about a thought, idea, or suggestion in any context that suggested it was with the intent to benefit another profession.

I congratulate you on the dedication it took to go through every post in my post history, especially the ones prior to yesterday that were 1 year+ old.

dancingmonkey.4902:

Feaduin.7603:

Wow, OP asks for a small QoL improvement which will have no effect on game mechanics and everyone jumps on him…

No. No he didn’t. He asked for a very very specific change that only benefits him as a thief.

Revealed can affect the stealth-applying skills of Rangers, Mesmers, and Engineers, as well. It can also affect anyone who tries to combo stealth to benefit a group or a player that cannot access stealth on their own.

dancingmonkey.4902:

If he cared about actual quality of life, he would have asked this for all buffs/debufs that would effect various profession.

Such as?

Terrahero.9358:

cafard.8953:

Same as Blind, Aegis or Stability. Despite the massive over-the-top FX, we’re basically supposed to stare all the time at two rows of tiny icons, at the top and bottom of the screen…

But these are effects that affect everyone. A que that you have been Revealed is meaningless to most people, and could more so be seen as an irritation. “Stop telling me ive been revealed, i cant even stealth, im a necro!”

And then no doubt people would say “then just give this que to classes who can use stealth”
First off, Engineers can use stealth. Doesnt mean it often does, and its very possible that Stealth is not included. Making the visual or audio warning a bother anyway.

I feel like that would be easily fixable with an opt-out box in the game options.

Terrahero.9358:

And secondly, why should we give certain professions special warnings for something that bothers them in particular? Im sure other professions can think of some special warnings that they would like the game to remind them off. So where does it end?

If ArenaNet decided to add a debuff that put fear-causing skills on an additional cooldown, or disabled meditations, or decreased adrenaline gain rate, I would fully support the addition of a warning that the debuff in question was applied.

Vikkela.7261:

I think I should get bigger notice when I’m applied with confusion or torment, the small icons are just not visible enough to make me stop hitting or moving

From the wiki pages on Torment and Confusion:

“Characters suffering from torment have black smoke on their legs (if applicable) and large red scratch marks around their lower body.”

“Characters suffering from confusion can be identified by twirling, purple tinted spiral over their heads. Additionally, the same effect will appear alongside damage dealt by confusion when using a skill. "

I would consider a special effect such as either of those to be an adequate visual cue for the purposes of my request. Confusion also gets its own special line of character dialogue.

Ehecatl.9172:

At least for ranger there is an audio cue. The ranger will shout “Sick ’Em!” and the pet will charge you. As for visual, you can see the revealed icon appear where you should be watching for all conditions anyway.

Rusc.4978:

I’m aware that there is already a Revealed icon, but it is small and appears without any special effect, dialogue, or character animation. And I’m aware that the Ranger shout currently has a distinct audio cue, which I unfortunately can’t hear from a 1000+ meters away while they are attacking me on longbow. I would be appreciative if we could get a notification that is a little more…notifying.

You have a right to your opinion that Revealed is fine; I simply wanted to highlight the part of my original post where I addressed the currently existing audio/visual cues.

dancingmonkey.4902:

I would be okay with this under the condition that everyone gets an audio/visual cue before we take damage from a character in stealth. As of now the icon we get 1s ahead of time allowing us to dodge is too small

What’s that you say? There is no icon to notify use just before we take damage we cannot see coming, from a stealthed thief? Then by Ogden’s hammer, I say no, I am against your suggestion for that reason.

Notification of an impending attack is in no way equivalent to notification that you are currently debuffed. Every condition/debuff in-game—as far as I can tell—has a distinct cue associated with it, except Vulnerability and Revealed. There are lots of instant or nearly-instant skills. Many of them cause damage.

Now that Engineers can instantly apply 6 seconds of Revealed and Rangers are becoming more prevalent in PvP, I’d like to talk about the mechanic of Revealed.

No, no, no. Not that talk.

Simply put, I think it would be great if we could get an additional audio or visual cue when Revealed is applied to us. Preferably, this would be in the form of a colored border around the screen, or a voice that says “HEY! I SEE YOU!” It would hopefully be a simple change, and—in my opinion—a great QoL improvement for anyone who uses stealth.

I’m aware that there is already a Revealed icon, but it is small and appears without any special effect, dialogue, or character animation. And I’m aware that the Ranger shout currently has a distinct audio cue, which I unfortunately can’t hear from a 1000+ meters away while they are attacking me on longbow. I would be appreciative if we could get a notification that is a little more…notifying.

Alright, let’s try this again.

I’m Prosper. o/

I’ve mained Thief since betas, and I’m familiar with the class and the various weaponsets therein. I play well with others. I want to improve. I’m willing to experiment and try new things. And, most importantly, I can listen and follow instructions.

I’m in American EST. Currently I’m in college and trying to get a job, but my schedule is flexible. I have a working headset and VoIP programs are spiffy keen.

For any questions or for more information, feel free to send me a message on the forums or contact me in-game.

I just love the idea of splitting Steal into 3 different f-key abilities. F1 steals a weapon or attack item, such as the Whirling Axe; F2 steals something that can be used to cc like the Skull Fear or Mace Head Crack; and F3 steals a heal or defensive item, such as Consume Plasma or Eat Egg. Obviously, all of these would share a cooldown.

It’s been a much-repeated suggestion on the forums, but I think it has a lot of merit. It would help diversify Steal and give it a sense of tactical thinking.

If the PW nerf were revoked, I’d be willing to give S/P another whirl. The quickness nerf hamstrung my S/D build, in a sense, since I’d use Haste for a semblance of a burst.

Now I kinda just hack away at people with my autoattack like I’m chopping wood and teleport all over the place to confuse them. I’m a ninja lumberjack.

It would be nice to have a decreasing aggro table, as Dasorine suggested. It’s beyond annoying to me when I stealth specifically to reset a mob, and the instant I pop out of stealth, it aggroes on me again…from a distance that far surpasses its aggro range.

The first time it happened, I went lolwat. Now when it happens, my poor computer gets to hear some pretty creative insults for Vampire Bats, Cave Spiders, and (motherless) Ettins.

bhagwad.4281:

Dasorine.1964:

plus a 14k backstab is extremely hard to get and will most likely have required team buffs and such to get. And yes classes should be able to do that IF YOU DECIDE NOT TO UTILIZE ANY DEFENSE.

Oh yeah? Which other class can do this? Remember this is from stealth and in less than a second so no chance for defensive measures.

No one is complaining that GC’s are squishy and that they die. It’s a fact of life. But there is such a thing known as counterplay. With skillful play you should be able to react and negate damage even if you’re a GC.

This burst from stealth doesn’t allow for any counterplay. And so I repeat – no one should be able to do this.

Well, it’s nice to see that bhagwad didn’t disappoint my hopes for this thread.

Dasorine and many other people have tried to tell you that the Thief burst can be countered, mostly with critical thinking. A competent player can counteract a stealth burst with traps, wells, or other ground-based effects; heavy aoe and/or condition damage; blocking; invulnerability; channeled skills (which continue to hit a thief after they have stealthed, revealing their position); shatter/chain burst; immobilize; daze; stun; and dodging. I run a GC Thief with 0 points in Vitality or Toughness, and I can counter Thief burst, even with slow reflexes, using a nifty skill called a “stunbreak.”

Also, you keep saying “which other class can do this?” That question is 3 kinds of pointless. If every class could do the same thing, I’d say screw Backstab, and I’d be out killing people with shatter burst. As far as ArenaNet has stated, the Thief class is working as intended. To illustrate that point, I will provide you with a few quotes (which I gave you in previous posts, but were conveniently ignored).

From an interview (http://kotaku.com/5780900/the-guild-wars-2-thief-is-a-rogue-like-none-other):
“The wise Thief player will know when to retreat and recharge.”
“…the Thief is built around hopping in-and-out of combat. If you don’t know when to back off, you’re going to die.”

From the update notes on December 14th:
“Thieves are the masters of mobility, stealth and high single target damage. They can be very fragile if you counter their stealth with area of effects or large stacks of conditions, but they trade this fragility in order to have some of the highest burst damage in the game.”

bhagwad.4281:

This happens without warning? Really? I can’t take evasive measures? Thief’s can one shot GCs who don’t even know they’re there. No question of evasive measures.

You get one-shotted without warning? Really? If a Thief Backstabs you from a previous stealth, that will do a lot of damage, but even if it crits enormously I can’t imagine it one-shotting you all on it’s own.

The typical Thief burst is some variation of Mug → CnD → Backstab for D/D, or Mug → Black Powder → Heartseeker → Backstab for D/P. Neither of those combinations happen instantaneously or without warning, and I’ve avoided both without much difficulty.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/thief/Guide-to-Thief-Guides/page/3#post1856819

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/thief/Sword-dagger-builds/first#post1740431

There are links to a couple threads that contain S/D builds. I didn’t do an exhaustive search, but there’s quite a few threads like these. Not to mention the official “Post Your Build Here” thread pinned at the top of the Thief forums.