If it makes you feel better, I was introducing a friend of mine to the game and we que’d against Team PZ in unranked ~3 days ago. You can imagine how well that went.
Holy smokes people, relax. Calling me an “armchair coach” is…crazy. My original post (quoted below) merely defended 2 posters who were accused of being “jealous” for expressing their disappointment. I couldn’t gives a rat’s kitten whether someone rage-quit in a tournament. The conversation then delved into semantics as Dale Rojo tried to tell me that quitting during a match isn’t “rage-quitting”. Do not try and turn this around on me. LOL
Maybe you should get over your jealousy and see the bigger picture here that any decent competitive gaming vet can already see. That is, GW2 as an esport has no future
Wait what? Why are you guys jumping all over Matisse and Wolf Shadow for being “jealous?” They aren’t jealous; they’re correctly pointing out that rage-quitting is unsportmanlike. Geez…
And? People say they troll but don’t actually troll. People say they are elite, but aren’t actually elite. People say they are OCD but don’t even know what an Obsessive Compulsive Disorder is.
The next comment after was “Twitch was thanking you for saving us from watching 15 minutes of one team ramming their head against a wall while the other just spams sustain and invulns that don’t prevent capture contribution.”
He can call what he did a ragequit, but in this case I say its more just realizing that you are about to be 2-0 just like every other losing team because they gave up the first cap and decided to just walk out and save everyone’s time in a broken game. Is frustration there? Likely, but its not gonna be a deciding factor as much as “Am I seriously about to waste 15 minutes again?”
“Sorry for the unprofessionalism but this game is hardly professional in its current state.” That’s the only unprofessional thing I have seen from Moob, but its not like he is wrong either when the proof is in the history of GW2’s PvP.
Leaving an [organized!] tournament match before it ends is unsportmanlike even if you know you are going to lose. End of story.
Wow, what a great idea, and with tremendous support, too! You are right Salamander.2504: it is weird that the necro class mechanic prevents necro’s from seeing the cooldowns of their utility skills for a large duration of game-play. I agree with the dashingly handsome original poster that this should be changed.
Wait what? Why are you guys jumping all over Matisse and Wolf Shadow for being “jealous?” They aren’t jealous; they’re correctly pointing out that rage-quitting is unsportmanlike. Geez…
This isn’t rage-quitting though. They ended a game prematurely that was over already. There was NO POINT to playing out that match. It was a wash. They should have been applauded for bringing the biggest issue to the table rather than accused for something they didn’t do.
IdrA is rage-quitting. Hungrybox in his jigglypuff mirror match against MaNg0 is rage-quitting. Kurt Russell playing chess against the computer is rage-quitting. What they all had in common is that they were winnable scenarios but the players decided to go with their emotional “easy outs”.
Zero Counterplay didn’t rage-quit, it was only one player that quit. That player should be applauded for saving time, bringing to light the huge problems of PvP, and ultimately ending a match that was decided already and putting the castors in an uncomfortable position after those castors stated THE GAME WAS ALREADY OVER AFTER THE FIRST CAP.
This argument implies that no decaps occurred at all during the ESL’s yesterday.
But they did.
Sugar-coat it all you want, rage-quitting is unsportmanlike.
Maybe you should get over your jealousy and see the bigger picture here that any decent competitive gaming vet can already see. That is, GW2 as an esport has no future
Wait what? Why are you guys jumping all over Matisse and Wolf Shadow for being “jealous?” They aren’t jealous; they’re correctly pointing out that rage-quitting is unsportmanlike. Geez…
Note that credit for most of this build goes to Salamander. He basically gave me the basic idea and I tweaked it a bit to fit my playstyle a bit better. Axe can be swapped to dagger or scepter, corrupt boon works over well of corruption, I just like the well for converting stability/quickness on chronomancer rezzes if their precog is up, making it a great source of downcleave. Dhuumfire works over death peception, and you can change runes/sigils as you’d like, though I’d generally reccomend either durability runes (the ones I go with since they’re OP) soldier runes for some more support, or berserker runes for more damage.
So far it works really well and has great sustained pressure and survivability, but it is weak against burst comps. I ate a 9K vault the other day, so I’d switch if you’re fighting double thief.
What he said. Here’s how I run it. Death magic gets a lot of hate but it’s the only thing that makes viper viable. It works in this bunker meta because we’re replacing the “win-more”dps trait-line (Spite) with a “win-always” dps amulet. I used to run spectral armor over corrupt boon, but after nearlight suggested it to me, I’m hooked. The build we linked is a real “bunker buster”. http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vRAQNBmOD7kZTocTs8GwbTgeTsUNYSDgAwJLeDOCThUvgZQlC-TpBFABCcQAY4CAceZA23fYhHAAAHBAA
Note that when signets are traited, signet of the locust is an aoe boon corrupt + heal + might stacks on 24 sec cd. Popping signets at the right time give you good burst windows. Also I like to take Suffer along with signets, it gives me an additional condi transfer in this bunker & condi heavy meta.
It’s hard to argue with the utility of SoL, but I prefer corrupt boon because it’s unblockable and you don’t need to trait for it.
@Nova Striker, do you see a problem only with chill uptime, or the Deathly Chill Trait? IMO chill uptime is fine but Deathly Chill trait could use a dmg coefficient reduction from 0.3→0.25.
Yeah, why should we wait till after Jan. 25th? Exactly what is stopping ANet from putting out a balance patch mid-season?
Every single elite spec needs to be on the same level as the core classes. Balance was in an excellent place in the post June 23rd, post-DD ele nerf. ANet needs to nerf the elites to get back to that place.
For viper and cele I feel that any mainland is viable, and yes chill is the bulk of your condi damage.
I personally don’t think signet corruption right now is much better than corrupt boon since our boon strip potential has been much weaker without being able to have both spite and curses.
+1 to Corrupt Boon (I tried it on your recc, NL). I’ve been running vipers as well; Corrupt boon and soul marks with a viper ammy makes you the “bunker buster”.
Bunker mesmer is fine. They just need to make some of the invul from Mesmer removes point capture contribution. It makes no sense to spam invul and still keep the point.
F4 does remove point capture, and shield 4 can be interrupted. That leaves what I think you’re referring to, which is sword 2 in addition to well of precog that is a 3s aoe evade on a kitten CD. Meh, I think they are fine. If you have access to an unblockable interrupt, usually interrupting shield 4 can secure a down on a mesmer.
Speed Starr has given me necromancer tips on this forum the past year and a half or so. He’s no lightweight.
It’s true though that one of the darkest era for us necros was during the reign of the hambow. The Reaper has improved our defenses against them and at the same time, they got nerfed even further.
*Bunkerchrono and DS tempest are the two biggest thorns on our spine atm. *
Staff 5 and WH 4 mean that necro’s are the class most capable of taking down a Bunkerchrono. DS Tempest is a thorn for all condi builds, but Reapers aren’t funneled into condi so I see it as an issue that is non-unique to Reapers. Warriors are still our biggest problem.
Sam, if you wanna soloQ, either go unranked or don’t worry about your ranked league. Here is the scenario you are outlining:
1) “Solo Que Hero Mr. Yolo” is getting utterly stomped by premade “Team Dolyak Brigade”: they have teamwork and voice-comms, how can Mr. Yolo ever compete?
2) Mr. Yolo enters into a solo que, which puts him in a different pool than the premade “Team Dolyak Brigade”.
3) Both Mr. Yolo and Team Dolyak Brigade rise through their pools and ultimately reach the same league.
What is wrong with this picture? Team Dolyak Brigade is better than Mr. Yolo due to their teamwork, and eventually drove Mr. Yolo into a different pool of players because Mr. Yolo wasn’t good enough. Ultimately, it doesn’t make sense that Mr. Yolo should be in the same league as Team Dolyak Brigade, as this implies similar skill-level. I recommend that Mr. Yolo either: (1) Stay casual and not get hurt feelings over his league division because YOLO (after all, the players have been asking for a visual “MMR” for years); (2) Stay casual and play in unranked; or (3) Join a team to test his mettle against the Dolyak Brigade.
If you feel inferior because you don’t actually try to do well in Ranked (which means gasp queing up with groups) that’s on you not the game. Unranked exists for a reason. There is no shame in playing Unranked and while being in a high division will open doors for you I doubt casual players are interested in those doors.
I honestly don’t know what anyone expected Leagues to be just as I don’t know what people expected HoT to be… none of this is a surprise. The League system brings GW2 PvP more into line with traditional MMO PvP… I haven’t played any of those Esports titles you mentioned from Blizzard but they aren’t MMOs and PvP is naturally structured differently in those types of games.
Leagues are more casual friendly though for those interested in Ranked play. I run CASUAL pre-mades almost exclusively and up until now we never did Ranked because frankly our rotations are often kitten. Leagues separate Ranked into several tiers of players so my bring what you want 3-5man can square off against other casual teams (which is what my experience with Leagues has been thus far… I’ve yet to go against a group with more then two pug players). The nature of how I play will keep me in Emerald and Sapphire and the nature of how more hardcore teams play will keep them in Ruby and Diamond.
However, those dissatisfied with Leagues are mainly upset that they can’t yolo-solo their way to victory hence I say go play Unranked.
As for the psychological effect of those prestige nameplates I can only speak for myself. I really don’t care about them, I am not embarrassed about currently being in Amber tier I felt no urge upon first logging in and seeing all the fancy new nameplates to get one of my own.
That’s the thing though, they won’t be facing the same pool of players, which is why a lot of people are intentionally losing games to lower their MMR so they can progress. The MMR isn’t tied to the divisions.
To quote myself: “There has not yet been any evidence of this “league manipulation” technique actually working, just oodles of speculation and whining. One person posted it, and now its being repeated as the gospel, despite the huge lack of community understanding on how the MMR works numerically. Where is the data to support the idea?”
So to clarify, a pro player and someone who just started doing ranked PvP will face vastly different opponents even if both are in the same league. It’s mind-boggingly stupid.
Fair enough. If the opposite were true, however, there would still be tons of complaints about the system about people being farmed. It’s hard to comment on how the current system will play out—it’s possible that it needs some equilibration timescale to get everyone sorted into the league/MMR bracket they belong to avoid the problem you are describing. Or not, who knows?
1) MMR tries to give you a 50% win-rate by matching you with similarily skilled players (in a broad sense as a team).
2) This means that to advance in a division you need to have greater than 50% win-rate (i.e., you generally beat out the other members of your division). 3) If you cannot attain higher than 50% win-rate, you belong in that division: you should not advance.
4) If two players with different MMR’s are in the same division, presumably they will be matched against a similar pool of players, and the better player will be able to advance through the division.
I don’t understand why people view the divisions as something to be grinded so you can advance as high as it can go…we’ll all find our place in the division that fits our skill level. It’s a tiered system that eventually will be a visual indicator of your MMR…and isn’t that what we’ve all been asking for for years?
Just one thing. Pro with 3000mmr? Have 50% winrate tight? = cant advance, even from division 1-2. Normal player lets say 1500mmr.. Also at 50% winrate. The same there..
But, IF a pro player lower there mmr, to 1500, he will then have a winrate of 80% when he start play serious again. And by then adv in rank. Same with The “normal guy” with 1500mmr. He can also lower hos mmr to 700, and own “noobs”.. There is no skill in divisions, only manipulate The mmr and you will rise as much as anyone else.
1) That pro and normal player should match up if they are in the same league; the pro will advance in that case. Also, most “pro’s” have higher than 50% win-rate. Check out the older leaderboard—the really good players had win-rates between ~55-70%.
2) There has not yet been any evidence of this “league manipulation” technique actually working, just oodles of speculation and whining. One person posted it, and now its being repeated as the gospel, despite the huge lack of community understanding on how the MMR works numerically. Where is the data to support the idea?
1) MMR tries to give you a 50% win-rate by matching you with similarily skilled players (in a broad sense as a team).
2) This means that to advance in a division you need to have greater than 50% win-rate (i.e., you generally beat out the other members of your division). 3) If you cannot attain higher than 50% win-rate, you belong in that division: you should not advance.
4) If two players with different MMR’s are in the same division, presumably they will be matched against a similar pool of players, and the better player will be able to advance through the division.
I don’t understand why people view the divisions as something to be grinded so you can advance as high as it can go…we’ll all find our place in the division that fits our skill level. It’s a tiered system that eventually will be a visual indicator of your MMR…and isn’t that what we’ve all been asking for for years?
Okay…the guy said “mass suicides in Skyhammer”, so unranked…in any case, the question we should all be asking is: does losing 20 games in a row lower your MMR a whole lot when you have 1k-5k games? It needs to be demonstrated that throwing games can actually work to rise through the leagues before we all start calling it “abuse”.
There has not yet been any evidence of this “league manipulation” technique actually working, just oodles of speculation and whining. One person posted it, and now its being repeated as the gospel, despite the huge lack of community understanding on how the MMR works numerically. Where is the data to support the idea?
I’m pretty sure it is intended. The +% stat modifiers use base stats otherwhise we could have infinte health and power warriors.
This wouldn’t occur here. CF would increase your toughness up to a value, and then DS would increase it from there. But there wouldn’t be a loop, CF wouldn’t give more toughness based off that.
I’ll try to check though.
Right, there wouldn’t be a loop. If DS worked off of CF, the maximum CF stacks would give you 21 additional power out of shroud, and 42 additional power in shroud. Nothing else would change.
I didn’t quote you because I wasn’t answering to you, was referring to this @ragnarok guy who keeps telling other to l2p when most top players agree that cc/condi spamm is out of control, I mean just take a look at current team compositions.
It’s not like you get outplayed and you must accept your defeat, from one side you get dazed for 2s every 5s or immobilized/crippled then you get feared/chilled/tormented to death and with soldier runes you still can’t do anything, you get swamped by several stacks of condis while losing control of your character
On a point you dodge left and you get dazed lock from the right, you cleanse that torment/chill combo and another comes 2s later +immobilize/crippled/fear, you use another stun break trying to move and you get caught by a well of gravity followed by more fear/chill spamm…seriously ridicolous
Well, it seemed like you were referring to me as a “deluded” person in this statement since I was the one who mentioned Soldier runes:
Still here we are, deluded people telling others to use soldier runes that clear a single freaking condi for shout use do you guys even watch some high end pvp before opening your mouth or you just let your ego run free? keep at it..nerfs will come eventually.
Supreme, I don’t play any condi builds, man. I just deal with it. Nothing I said is based on my “ego,” and I haven’t told anyone to “L2P”. Do you think we can keep the discussion civil without going ad hominem?
As for your specific gripes:
1) Yeah druid has a lot of daze, but you’re problem is CC, not condi, and I agree that CC in PvP has become too frequent with HoT elite specs.
2) Yeah rev is pretty strong, but it’s hard to argue the problem is in their auto-attack…
3) Agreed that reaper Deathly Chill trait could use a damage reduction. If you look in my post history, I’ve proposed to reduce the scaling from 3.0 to 2.5.
4) Condi mesmer has literally never been weaker since the pre-HoT nerf to Maim the Disillusioned. Condi is currently their weakest spec.
5) Soldier runes rock, man.
I wanna hear from anyone who doesn’t run Vital Persistence in PvP, and their thoughts on why/how they can get by without it. Does anyone skip Soul Reaping altogether?
I’m not sure one way or the other if it’s the right thing to do. As some folks pointed out in that thread, do we really want to make the most powerful boon even more powerful?
I think condi’s are generally in a fine place right now. Everyone is so excited to run the elite specs a lot of us have left condi cleanse at the wayside, which is our own fault. I see the condi reaper and condi rev dominance as a temporary thing…inevitably people will adapt and begin running soldier runes again. And there’s no excuse not to. Before it was limited to guardian, warrior (and some bold rangers), but now that role is opened up to tempests and reapers, too.
Death magic traits: Corrupter’s fervor: Inflicting a condition on a foe grants stacking toughness and reduced incoming condition damage. Deadly Strength: Gain power based on your toughness.
Corrupter’s fervor toughness stacks aren’t proccing Deadly Strength’s power bonus. Is this intended?
Death magic traits: Corrupter’s fervor: Inflicting a condition on a foe grants stacking toughness and reduced incoming condition damage. Deadly Strength: Gain power based on your toughness.
Corrupter’s fervor toughness stacks aren’t proccing Deadly Strength’s power bonus. Is this intended?
Remember that time your first pet died? If you cried and bid it farewell, then this job is not for you. If instead you said “See you soon!” with evil grin on your face, then look no further – you’re a necromancer!
The original poster isn’t saying DH is OP, he’s saying he can’t see the traps. This happens a lot when you get stuck in dragon’s maw and keep getting cc’d because you can’t see the trap animation.
…This is the opposite of what needs doing. VP is fine as a shroud uptime increaser, it just needs competition in the burst department. Duration vs short term power. If anything VP needs the shroud CD removed/moved to another trait, because it clouds the over-time component (can have some power returned if needed by giving it another over-time component, like some LF on hit)….
Watch out! I suggested this in another thread and got torn a new one. :P
Dire amulet isn’t available in PvP, so a condition build can only have either toughness or vitality (but not both). I.e., they cannot actually maximize both offense and defense in PvP.
Condi rev and condi necro are strong specs, but I can’t think of anything else which would give you trouble.
What class are you running, and what cleanses are you using?
One of the issues with the Thief is that the whole idea behind the class has a pretty big limitation. Much like how Reapers have to be the most formidable in a straight up brawl, thieves have to be the weakest. Let me explain:
The Thief is a class that has countless escapes and the ability to approach in stealth, so they always have the first strike advantage and they have high burst. This makes them both evasive and aggressive, and changes much of the fight to be not about necessarily killing a thief, but fighting one off. Considering that, if there were a class that was overall weaker in a straight up fight (basically you both whipped out melee weapons and went right up into each others’ face), then that class could never be played. It would auto-lose to the thief, who would approach from stealth and kill the class on the Thief’s own terms.
The Thief class inherently “unfair”, in that sense. While it is fun to play Thieves, it is not fun to be killed by Thieves. So, to balance the theme of a “invisible high burst” class, they have to make everybody stronger. Strong enough that they can fight off a Thief even with their first move advantage. The ability for the Thief to pick and choose their fights mandates this kind of balance.
This puts Anet into a sticky wicket. Thief players want to be stronger, but thieves have to be the weakest. If you increase Thief damage or durability, you run the very real risk of making another class obsolete.
I wouldn’t mind more group buffs, myself. I don’t PVP anymore, so I wouldn’t be able to say what group buffs are needed, but as it stands thieves have to trait pretty heavily to get any sort of team support. An idea I heard once was to make the AoE effect of venoms baseline, and roll the recharge reduction into Leeching Venoms. Restoring some of the lost boon stealing and adding a few more methods of boon stealing is another.
I strongly disagree because every class has something it can bring to the table: Ele has lots of mobility and AoE with great burning, Guardian while lacking mobility gives lots of support as well as DPS and burning, Necro lots of conditions and boon steals, engineers lots of great utility and conditions, ranger healing and outrageous single target ranged damage, and thief…just really has mobility and stealth. Since reveal is around thief needs a buff to make up for stealth’s lost utility. The problem with reveal is if I didn’t want to stealth I wouldn’t and six seconds is more than enough time to kill a thief, thus fake casting with cloak and dagger or black powder isn’t an option and even if it were someone else could just reveal after shadow refuge or some other skill gets casted. This makes stealth unviable and something needs to be given to thief to make up for that.
“Strong enough that they can fight off a Thief even with their first move advantage. "
But it should have to be an uphill battle for whoever the thief hit while it should be the thief’s job to keep that advantage then disengage if he somehow loses it. The problem with thief being weak is its only viable source of damage is melee with big damage or daze being available from stealth and from behind, which means if you try fighting with shortbow someone could type /laugh and still have enough time to kill you the damage is so weak so shortbow is only viable for its 5 ability which doesn’t even damage and cost initiative. Thus, due to the situational and positional nature of the damage it needs to be high to compensate for the skill required. You don’t have the range or healing of a ranger, utility, AoE, or versaility of an elementalist (who always has something off cooldown), etc., so where does one make up the difference? Thief is simply underpowered and was even before reveal came about.
Why are you trying to DPS someone down with shortbow?
Since I have said everything I had to say plenty of times, you guys just miss it: reread before you think you can judge about what I’ve said/or meant – btw the last passage of your post didn’t make any sense, sorry.
There’s too many passives in this game, there are too many tanks in this game who can hit harder than a zerker, there are too many blocks and gimmicks in this game = it’s spam to win. And I think that’s sad actually as mesmers used to be my favourite opponents, fighting them was fun (like chess) – nowadays I can’t even hit them because their traitline merging brought them all these passives – horray.
I can see why mesmer was your favorite opponent; you were their direct counter. As for a point you made earlier about backstabbing through aegis: you stay stealthed and take off their aegis, so you can chain your backstabs until you hit.
I’m not referring to the condi spec, and I’m not saying it carried my team (I’m sure they have, but I’ve also played against teams where their DD won them the match). Bounding dodger DD+signet of agility is plenty of dodges. I’m surprised you’re questioning my claim…is it so hard to believe that there are people out there kicking kitten with Daredevil?
Saying that thief was only useful because it countered mesmer isn’t true…it was always meta when mesmer wasn’t. You could say that it kept the mesmer out of the meta, but thief has always been useful in the match itself (where it matters), even in the absence of mesmers.
People are upset when classes have no defined roles, and they are upset when classes do have defined roles (thief)…daredevil is a great spec with a defined role. What is wrong with that?
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