Guild Wars 2

Harder? No it needs to be more challenging but when you have a dynamic event system and and I play mechanic where 20, 30 players are expected to zerg rush a dynamic event bosses I don’t think making the boss harder is the answer.

ArenaNet needs crowd control on the events and they need to make them more challenging (as in puzzle like) with team-oriented combat.

Difficulty is just fine in dungeons (story mode) and this is where most of my fun in game happens. The open world experience is very different.

OP: I think what you mean is there is no need for any strategic team play. In open world it is true. Dynamic evens just require a mob of people to show up and spam skill 1 and pop an occasional heal to complete (I’m not trying to be over the top sarcastic, I actually did play through three events today just like that to prove a point).

Of course I also cleared the Crucible of Eternity dungeon today with a group of skilled level 80 players and had a blast. What you’re looking for is in GW2 unfortunately it’s only in dungeons. Outside of that it is sort of a single player experience save for the optional dynamic events.

World PvP would make no sense, there is no warring factions in the game among playable races. In a future expansion they could do this, but in terms of the story delivered with GW2 it would make no sense for you as a Charr to go attack a Asura. The entire system is designed around cooperative play between the races so how could you do this?

Now open world duels (1 on 1) matches performed on an request duel/accept duel basis would be cool and I believe that’s coming.

This is a well written exit review that does a good expressing a perspective. As someone who is frustrated with ANet over many things with GW2 I can relate on a few points but only a few. The bottom line is this wasn’t the right game for the OP to continue playing long-term.

I especially feel his pain on the issue of the holy trinity being gone. I’ll create my own post on that the bottom line is the game has no structured team-oriented play outside of sPvP Tournaments and sPvP is missing too many features… Team-oritented play is the real reason people play MMOs. You have a part, you bring that part and people know if you’re any good at that part. Put aside the anti-grind mechanics in GW2 (which are rather good)
The end game design to run around and help others is broken by high way point cost. If you want to help others you’re going to have to run dungeons or farm in high level zones in order to break-even. Some players don’t like that design.

Torvarren.9295 said I don’t understand what you expect. Just saying do it better or do it different doesn’t cut it. What is your idea of what is boring? I’m not sure what you expect in the manner of mechanics. There is so much stuff going on here. I’ve seen people on the forums complain about “why do I need to know raid tactics to finish this?” and others saying “Why is this so easy?” I can name multiple boss mechanics already at play in this game, and this is just the starting phase.

What is easy to one person may be difficult to another, the issue with GW2 is that you have this great system where team tactics could be required. Instead in most cases you have button masher scenarios or puzzles that doesn’t require team effort.

I’m not saying make the bosses or mobs more difficult. They are difficult enough and many cases too difficult IMO. The problem is the game is designed to not need specific team strategy, but team strategy is what keeps players coming back to MMOs. This is where the fun is, it’s where social gaming meets team work. Granted without some coordinated effort you will not make it through any dungeons, but players want and expect more out of modern MMOs. Collectively we want great puzzles we must solve together and great rewards when we solve them. GW2 dungeons still need work in both areas.

You can’t have it both ways.

You break apart the holy trinity and say you have a better solution, that’s fine. The problem is after playing in many team scenarios it’s not refined enough. There are moments (e.g. Sorrows Embrace story mode, Catacombs story, both fun but need some work). I’m looking forward to playing the others

In general the game needs more instanced team content. I greatly miss cooperative missions in GW2 and dungeons are they only thing that resembles that in GW2. Dynamic events are their own thing and do not really replace cooperative missions because they require no team strategy/tactics.

How difficult is it to have a moderator on every server? I mean we’re not talking about someone who needs a Ph.D here…. Hire some wage help or offer bonuses to Anet play testers for doing this in their own time (there so many ways the company could find trusted moderators to do this…).

When someone reports a bot in-game have on-duty moderator notified of zone and location so they can swoop in observe the behavior, document the behavior and blow up the bots.

Is this something we loose in a free-to-play MMO? If the game studio can’t offer this basic level of policing then I do worry about the future of the game. Isn’t that a legit concern?

It’s kind of an every man for himself kind of game. Dungeons are the only place in the game (save for sPvP) where you have to actually use team strategy and I agree it could be better. But the problem is some of them just have horrible design (TA for example is just a miserable experience, AC, CM and SE are both challenging but fun).

Overall I am also pretty disappointed with them

I have little faith at this point and I continue to keep my sPvP focused guild parked as I wait for ArenaNet to get their kitten together

Here’s what’s been promised

• Leaderboards

• Observe mode

• Private servers (for pay: focused on making players pay to practice according to what can be inferred from latest blog post)

Here’s what we need

• Leaderboards

• Observe mode

• More modes of play than point-capture

• At least four more official maps (a few of the ones they have now are horrible)

• Map editor

• Ranking (when I join a Tournament with 5 people who’ve never played in a Tournament and have little sPvP experience I shouldn’t face Team Paradigm. As currently implemented there is no rank pairing and these sort of scenarios are happening all the time)

• Private servers (for pay: focused on independent tournament hosting features)

• Private servers (for free:: focused on practice mode)

I don’t think they get it. They made sPvP completely sandboxed from the PvE and WvW sides of the game. There is no reason they can’t treat sPvP in GW2 like any other fun sPvP game. Team Fortress 2 would be a great game to model after in terms of features offered. I was expecting at release GW2 would have most of the sPvP features that TF2 had and even innovate beyond that. Sadly it’s a very, very long way from even
matching TF2

It doesn’t matter if a server is full, half way full or near empty. All the balancing in the world for player load won’t change how many players are choosing to go after dynamic event X at a given time. By design there is this variable outside of ArenaNets control (player choice of which events to tackle) that could make those events blocked/unavailable if not enough players are there to participate.

I consider that alone a bad design because it shifts it so for the game mechanics to function correctly a.) enough players must be in the given zone b.) those players in the zone most choose to go after the event.

More often than not I’m finding events are being avoided by players. Considering the importance of dynamic events to the game I really hope they fix this aspect.

Some ideas on how to fix.

1.) Improve event scaling so that most can be tackled by a single player. If the player is alone simply have NPC players appear and rush in to help to offset.

2.) Improve rewards for events so players will have incentive to go after them and so they don’t feel so grindy.

I’ve gotten to a point where I enjoy these threads…. Those saying the endgame needs improvement are correct, I just don’t want to see improved in the same way most do. I don’t wait raids. I don’t want gear between exotics and legendary to grind for (keep those legendary items a universe away so the traditional MMO player use to the grind treadmill will get discouraged and understand this is not that game and that legendary weapons are meant to be long term rewards and not the sole reason to keep playing post level 80…. GW2 wasn’t built to be that other game.

What I would like to see is team/party instances in the open world (something between personal story and dungeons) that a team can can come across. I think these would be great for new expansion and to sprinkle into the current high level zones. If you happen to be in a party you and your max level you could just stumble across these zones (little blue stars instead of the personal story greens).

I’m thinking some criteria should be met before these open up

• All party members must be max level
• All party members must have finished their personal story (killed Zhitan)

The instanced zones would occur all of the world map and be designed for max level, strategic team play. They would be much shorter than dungeons.

I’d love to be able to wish these into existence. As a GW2 player I’d love to work with a max level team to try and hunt such instances down.

Once an MMO releases it has a very small window to capture fans (GW2 has been very successful) now it must keep them.

There’s an Astoria in GW2. There’s a neat little town in OR called Astoria not too far from Seattle, WA

We know there is a commando skin from an old April Fools joke… Have a small team in the ANet office devoted to bot patrol. It would make reporting them a lot more entertaining

There’s a reason Rytlock’s figure was chosen for the collectors edition statue.

A few critical hacks (the consequence, not the how-to)

1. WvW server orbs are being stolen through hacks (this is insane)

2. In sPvP teams have been reported to find ways to start a match outside the designated starting area, thus getting an early advantage
3. Speed hacks in PvE give unfair advantage in both instances and open world
4. bots-o-rama
5. Yes, even the Trading Post is subject to botting.

Combine this with some critical bugs
1. Many personal story chapters still lock due to bugs (you’ll get to the point where the next phase should open up and you find you can’t open a door or whatever)
2. Many dungeon instances are also still locking due to bugs
3. Dynamic events aren’t starting due to bugs or stay in a locked state on many of the maps (especially zones for levels > 50)

I love this game. I’m tolerating all of this because I waited a long time and behind all the launch issue I see the vision and all the hard work that went into it, but I completely understand those who get angry and leave. The game is a mess right now and it doesn’t do anyone any good to sugar coat this critical problems. They are problems that have destroyed other games.

I’m sure there will be years of content updates, even if a lot of people who played first month have stopped. Look at NCSoft’s other flagship title AION. Since launch it has less than a quarter of the box sells that GW2 has had and here we are two years after their US launch and they are still pushing regular content updates.

Although you see a lot of people complaining (and some of them are well justified) this game still has a huge community. In fact we’re still waiting for the community to firm up I think. You have that group of new players that storm the gates on launch, grind to max level and write it off as another notch in the belt. I’m not being rude we all know there are those type of players, there’s nothing even wrong with that. If that does it for you…. I am glad GW2 is designed to discourage that and that a lot of those type of MMO players are moving on.

All clues in the game seem to point to the first expansion zone being Far Shiverpeaks (where Eye of the North took place in the first GW) and Kodan race perhaps being the next playable. I’m basing this on the setup for Jormag being the next elder dragon. Claw of Jormag being in Frostgorge Sound. And Frostgorge being the only level 80 zone outside of Orr.

OP: Absolutely. I’ve gotten to where I generally run one of two builds on my Guardian. My DPS build is Greatsword / Scepter / Focus with sprit hammer and spirt sword equipt usually run Signet of Judgement on this build and Renewed Focus for my elite which I pop when I need to reset virtues.

People complain about Scepter. I prefer over staff in my DPS build because of it’s crowd control mechanics. You always need a range weapon to swap to and when your build is DPS focused you’re going to want a Focus or Shield as part of that so the Scepter works for me.

Traits. I have mine setup to max Spirit weapon usefulness. The others I toy around with. Even post nerf I’m still using the Retaliation related traits from time to time

Without it there is no way to clean house.

Areia.1940:

And yes, you are right, at max level you want to be challeneged, you want the feeling of working on a boss for so long and then finally downing it…but you also want the feeling that you accomplish something from doing it, which there currently seems to be none, unless you are wildly in love with one of the dungeon armour sets :/

^^^
This is the problem I see with ArenaNet’s concept of endgame. It’s not that they decided against adding raids, it’s that their idea of level 80 players running around the open world revisiting events is flawed, because

1.) Waypoint cost isn’t properly offset with the rewards in lower level zones. This creates a sort of waypoint tax to help lower level players

2.) The dynamic events with combat can be zerg rushed. You need no strategy whatsoever to beat these, just spam 1, pop a heal every great once in a while and stay out of AoE and you’ll get Gold award for event at the end if the collective effort wins the event. Too few people and the event is unplayable (challenge too great). Occasionally your come across and event and you’ll have a small group in the area going after it (5-8 seems about optimal for most) then you’re not just spamming and watching a slide show as frame rates drop. No. With the right size team you’re enjoying the event as I suspect the developers intended and you are using strategy

My problem with their idea of PvE endgame is not the lack of raids it’s that the dynamic event system as implemented goes to kitten when you have too few or too many players and this is happening more often than not.

3.) Bugs, Bugs. In WvW hackers frequently steal orbs. WvW guild leaders are actually stepping in with the bugs and helping. While that’s fantastic and says how nobel of community we have it’s also very sad that this game we all want to keep loving is so broken. Another possible avenue for endgame would be sPvP, but sPvP has no ranking, no leaderboards. It’s problem isn’t bugs. It’s problem is that it’s unfinished. So also you’re blocked from challenge and rewards.

Suggestions for fixing these things

1.) Get rid of waypoint cost once zones are cleared -or- have a waypoint unlock achievements for each zone. The achievement could be based on a combination of gathering and dynamic event success in the zone (this could give a player additional reason for repeating events and going back to help players…. better yet, just make the waypoints all free. No one likes them. We all see them as money sink designed to try and get players to spend in the gem store and I just can’t imagine they are fulfilling that purpose

2.) The challenge on this one is finding a way to give players the ability to always experience the events with an optimal team size. Right now events scale, but the scaling is on the NPC side. The amount of damage and the number of mobs seem to scale but it does not work well with large crowds of players. When you have 20 players attacking a boss there is no room for team strategy. The challenge goes away and with it the fun…. Find a way to allow max level players the ability to enter instances of the events so that they can tackle the event sandboxed with a small team. This would greatly increase endgame value without having to rescript events or alter the events in the open world. Instancing should be be an option presented to level 80 players with higher chance of payout than non-instanced version of events. Pick a few of them to start. I would recommend putting them in lower level zones to give level 80s a reason to go back and revisit those zones…. What I’m suggesting here is my concept of “hard mode” for GW2 because the level scaling that’s baked in now is just not enough.

3.) Fix the bugs. Finish sPvP ASAP

Error in title *Quiet

Since launch we’ve heard very little from Mike O’Brien, Eric Flannum or Ree Soesbee. Has anyone seen articles/blog post/interviews by these individuals lately?

Perhaps they are all on much needed vacation?

1.) I agree 100% on the ranking…. As implemented now sPvP Tournaments are essentially closed unless you are in a top rated sPvP guild. Since leaderboards and ranking don’t exist it’s a little bit of a misnomer to say “top ranked” but the reality is a handful of guilds have been doing sPvP exclusively since early beta. (e.g. Team Paradigm). These guilds have very organized teams practicing daily. If you try to take a team of friends into Tourny just to see what it’s all about there is a good chance you’ll end up head to head with one of these teams and get destroyed.

Let’s be honest, that’s not about two groups bringing their A game and getting a fair fight. That’s like an aspiring High School basketball player going up against an NBA pro. Ranking are so critical, not just to eSport but just in general for the sPvP side of the game to be anything more than these unstrategic hot-join matches.

I think ranking is core to any sPvP system. I would put it above observe mode, above pay tournaments, above anything else. Leaderboards aren’t the same thing either. Leaderboards represent who’s the best of the best that’s it. I am very frustrated with ArenaNet over this.

2.) Endgame…. I disagree on this one. I think they need to make the endgame they have already created a bit more appealing at max level. What does a level 80 max stat player want? They want to be challenged. They want scenarios where they can function s a member of a team, execute team strategy and make a difference. The only path GW2 provides for that in PvE is dungeons explore mode. I’ve also noticed in pattern in the guilds I am in that when our members play together 99% of the time it’s dungeons or WvW.

I think the dynamic event system should be retooled a bit to be more welcoming to party play and they need to get rid of the horrible way point cost (play together tax) impacting group play.

SevenSigma.7462:

Look man, I get you, but it’s just not doable. Think of how much work it would be to create instances for every single dynamic event in the game. How many are there? Think of the server load as every party in every event in the world gets its own copy of the map. There is a point where it stops being a suggestion and it starts being a magic wish.

And like I said, DEs are supposed to scale to the number of players. This system works well for middle-ground numbers, and breaks for too many or too few players. Fixing this issue could be as simple as tweaking the scaling.

1.) It would be a significant undertaking but it could be rolled out in phases by zone starting where the high level zones and moving down. 2.) It’s not more server load if the backend is designed well. Instancing generally reduces server load. They have the back-end architecture to scale for instanced zones through personal story and dungeons, the plumbing is already in place. 3.) As much as I’d love to see GW2 retooled for current events, it would also be nice if this feature would be considered for future expansions and sold as a feature of future expansions instead. At this stage it would be nice if all the dynamic events they created worked properly. There are still a number of bugged events.

SevenSigma.7462:

While you’re absolutely right in that events are often dull because there are too many or too few people, this could be fixed by tweaking the scaling. Instancing the whole world is simply not doable. And I do find plenty of teamwork on the open world, especially in the tougher areas. Players will spontaneously group up to explore the maps or do event chains. They don’t party up because there is no need to.

I don’t mean instancing the entire world. I envision a short window of time once the event begins (perform ~2 minutes after it starts up) where anyone who’s in a party inside the events area would be prompted with the option to enter an instance. The instance would have bounds just like Personal Story chapters do and would kick the player once the instance ends.

The bottom line is without instancing you can not control the zerg rush. When you have 15+ people on an event it becomes very difficult to weigh your contribution to the total effort. It’s different experience than playing with a small team where everyone knows your contribution and you know there’s. That team oriented dynamic does not have to be limited to dungeons.

I think we all have our list, but If I could add only one thing it would be dynamic event instancing as an option… I’ve been playing > 200 hours. Being active in a few guilds I’m seeing a pattern. People often play alone in this game. Yes there is the social aspect in guild and map chat, but people sign-in to play together not just wonder around the same world playing solo-able content (although I do think solo-able experience should not be touched for those who do enjoy it).

Independence is a cultural thing in the west. We don’t take help unless we need it. I can’t count how many times I’ve offered to help or just team up and got no response. I also see people requesting LFG on map chat and expressing frustration.

The game is designed to not need a party to play and outside dungeons people rarely party up. This design has a negative impact on play experience for dynamic events. Most events have an optimal party size (5-8 players perhaps) where you will feel your contribution to DPS or support. When you play events with an optimal size team you will have fun. Once the number of players grows too large the event becomes a giant mob (zerg). There is no strategy and the only competition is with other players to get in as much damage as you can on the boss. The connection between players effort and reward is lost in this scenario. Yes you get the reward at the end, but what you did to achieve that is unclear… On the other end of the spectrum you have events that don’t have enough people to pull off. We’ve probably all run through a zone where an event was happening and no one was playing (if you haven’t, you will). In these cases player must avoid the event.

TL;DR I think dynamic events as implemented fail to be fun more often than not because the mass of players participating is either too large or too small. If I could make one change suggestion that made it into a future patch it would be a feature that allows a party to enter an instance of any event. This would add team-oriented play back to the open world and not limit it to dungeons, it would be a significant change for the better and bring the fun back. This would allow the events to be experienced with optimal team size (scaling for events as implemented is not the same thing. It controls the damage output of boss which will not impact play mechanics with a large team. Scaling as implemented does nothing to enforce strategic play). If this system is implemented greater rewards should be paid out for instanced play… Nothing ridiculous but a bit more than non-instanced.

To address OP: The problem is the game was not designed to be team oriented. These is no need to party up for anything except dungeons. The primary vehicle for delivering story content is Personal Story which is a series of non-repeatable instanced zones designed around solo play (single player game naked inside an MMO). The other story delivery is dynamic events, but dynamic events have a real problem. They aren’t designed to require teams, but since they are not instanced zones you end up with 10,20,30 people (whoever you happen to have at the event at the time) and they are all trying to do the exact same thing. There is no team strategy to dynamic events. When you have a play mechanic that requires a lot of players and it has no team strategy or no head to head competition, it’s no longer a game. Where is the challenge? Where is the fun?

After you play the same event time and time again you begin to realize this rather quickly. I’ve gotten to where I avoid them almost altogether. When I do start one I’m immediately hoping it ends soon. Why? I’ve thought about it a lot and it’s lack of any required team coordination.

I’m not playing a dedicated roll, I’m playing whatever roll I want to play. I hope in the future they provide an option for small party’s to enter an instance of the dynamic event. If they did this it would provide an option to make events team-oriented if the player were to choose. There should be higher rewards for strategic effort verus the zerg rush of events.

When I say zerg rush I’m not trying to attack. On any server you can approach any combat oriented event and it’s the same pattern 1.) attack 2.) avoid damage. I play a Guardian so I try to support the group in the event. I doubt anyone notices I don’t blame them if they didn’t the game isn’t designed for them to care about anyone elses contribution in the open world dynamic events.

That’s not to say I haven’t enjoyed some dynamic events, but the ones I have I’ve noticed have always been when there were only 5-7 other players helping with it. There is an optimal level for these events where they can be fun and that’s why I am suggesting players have the option an event instance.

What’s more, in those dead zones you need people to play out the dynamic events. They scale down to about 5 it seems, but not below that….

Hopeless.8195:

If you don’t want to wait for Anet to make sPvP better, there is nothing stopping you from not playing GW2 and coming back later. Lots of whine on the forums will be no good for anyone.

If things are very bad and they are in this case it’s healthy to have some discussion about it. I think a lot of us are holding back and being considerate that ArenaNet staff are reading these comments. I am trying to be as polite as I can while stressing the frustration.

If you care about the game or anything in life for that matter it’s good to raise you voice. Express you opinion. Sometimes the truth does hurt and I think we’ve all been hurt by the truth of our own mistakes from time to time. I’m glad we have so many diverse opinions here. It’s those who care who speak up.

DreamOfACure.4382:

GW2 is NOT suppose to be a team-oriented game

• GW2’s PvE is not made to be “team” oriented. If you want teams, that’s where dungeons and sPvP is for.

I understood going in the game was more solo focused, there are two problems 1.) It’s an MMO so by definition it brings players together 2.) The dynamic event system as designed does not require strategy. Take a good third-person action game, for example the God of War franchise. You have these huge bosses, you also have to implement a great deal of strategy to get to a win scenario.,

When you have a game like GW2 where you have large groups attacking the same boss and you haven’t built the game to be team-oriented it all falls apart. It’s fun the first 2-3 times you do that event, but after 5,6,7 times of fighting Claw of Jormag or the Shatterer you realize it doesn’t really mater what you do. It’s the collective (zerg) contribution of damage being delt that’s bringing the boss down. The bottom line is anyone can run through these events and they aren’t challenging enough. On the plus side the events are beautiful, we have giant dragons coming out of the sky and amazing effects but that something missing so many of us have noticed is strategy. Without you really don’t have much of a game.

I am not trying to attack. I am trying to state facts. I would to challenge someone to explain how some of these large scale 3-hour cycling meta events challenging.

• They don’t branch.
• I’ve never seen one fail

I played through one time a good friend recently. His first time at Claw of Jormag and he commented “is this thing over yet. kind of boring”. I’m thinking… “yea they need to fix this and quick”

My biggest gripe with the game is a lack of team-oriented content. We have dungeons and we have WvW, but the heart of the game play is dynamic events and personal story and both can be accomplished without any strategic team play. While this system is great for solo play and sometimes it’s exactly what I want, most often I find myself missing the team play. Open world team play (but dungeons are niche and require long term commitment, etc..)

People need incentive to play in groups and I think the lack of this is hurting GW2.

My suggestion is to make it so all dynamic events have an instanced option. If I see Claw of Jormag is up and I’m in a party of 5 I should have a window of time at the beginning of the event where my team is prompted to enter an instanced version of the event. The instanced version should be be scaled down for 5 (10 would be awesome but I’m trying to be realistic given the current partying system and think of how this could be added quickly).

This would make it so all the existing events have an option that provides real strategic team effort. There should be higher payout for winning the events in this way too (a nominal increase in payout, these aren’t dungeons). I’m also envisioning an achievement path for clearing all events with group play and special awards at the end for doing so.

This change would have no impact on current mechanics. The only one I can think of would be everyone going into instances and leaving the open world instance of the event vacant. A solution to this problem is to only provide X number of instances first come first server. If you have 30 people in a zone when the event starts 1.) You only provide instance options to people who are in party 2.) You only provide a few instances once they are taken up it leaves some people behind. This sounds much more complicated that it would be to implement.

No… After considerable thought I do feel the game shipped to early and perhaps this is what it needs. The problem is the hype built before launch worked. 2-million players stormed the gates and played the kitten out of it. A reset now would be a nightmare scenario for Anet.

You can’t go back. You want to force a reset? People will write off your product as an unfinished mess and will leave and never look back. Most of us had beta characters. At release we said goodbye to those characters. We rolled our main and clocked > 150 hours with trust that we were playing on production/release servers. We’ll say goodbye to these characters when we say goodbye to the game.

When a reset happens so quickly after launch the game is done. A reset would destroy the game.

Cogbyrn.7283:

I’m sure you’ve read The Mythical Man-Month, or at least heard of the concept, so the irony of your statement that it would be available in a month struck me.

Have read it… My issue isn’t with time tables now. My issue is with time table from first previewing the game two years ago, up through six months+ beta testing to release. They released a product that was not finished. Bugged events filled the higher level zones. We have camera problems. We have optimization problems on some CPUs. When it comes to PvE, we have no guesting option available. We have with dungeons… the list goes on and on and on.

With sPvP we just have an incomplete game that shipped. I qualify that by saying these features

• Observe mode

• Leaderboards

• Ranking/pairing

• Private servers

• Multiple game modes (only one shipped with GW2, point capture)

These are not innovative features. These a core features available in Team Fortress 2 on release 3+ years ago. If I ship a half-baked piece of software to a target audience that has a very short attention span when it comes to new products do I really expect long term success? Customers are not going to wait a year for you to get all the features in. If you ship a game too early you cripple it’s chance for a long future. Customers don’t care what’s practical on chart in Microsoft Project or how many sprints you have to go before your next release. They care about one thing only. Generally when it comes to a game perceived as not finished the attitude is " I paid for a game and it’s an unfinished mess, where is the product I paid for"?

Scepter is nice becomes it can be paired with a good offhand.

PvE in GW2 is fun in groups…. The problem is they’ve built the game not to require them except in Dungeons, WvW and on sPvP teams.

Really all the game needed was repeatable cooperative story (missions) taking place every. These should be happening once every 5 levels or so.

ArenaNet might say “we have story mode dungeons happening at about that frequency” but it’s not the same thing at all.

I’m 100% ok with them locking certain skills to certain weapons. The answer is to add different types of weapons. Instead of one type of Greatssword offer 3-4

@Zuggy: The sPvP side of the game is sandboxed from the rest of the product. Since GW2 is sold as a stand alone game and not a subscription based MMO I would expect the sandboxed sPvP content to be on par with games such as Team Fortress 2 (which btw is a game that had influence in GW2’s design).

It makes perfect sense to judge the sPvP side of the game with games like TF2. In TF2 you have for-pay/rented servers. You also have a the ability to run your own private server for free.

Some additional thoughts after reading all these replies.

To those talking about software development life-cycles, etc… Software engineer 12 years here (raises hand). Although good points are made, here’s the bottom line. sPvP side of the game feels like It shipped too soon. When they said things like “we know how critical observe mode is to making sPvP an esport” I assumed that feature would be a top priority and be available within a month.

I had no idea after a month would we still not have: Leaderboards, ranking/pairing (I got frustrated thinking about this core mechanic of any team-oriented eSport pvp).

I feel like the developers are pleading with the community at this point to “just hang in there”. Here’s the hard, cold truth. The hype has no power anymore. Sorry that boon is gone. People want fast delivery of core features. In terms of PvE that means fixing a lot of bugs (they have been doing a reasonably good job). For sPvP that means finishing a product that shipped without a lot of core features you see in other team-focused pvp games. Here we are past the 1-month marker and we get a blog post saying 1.) nothing new is available let because “it’s not ready” 2.) Reiterating more about what we already knew was slated.

Regarding “when it’s ready” mantra, I think there is a strong argument to be made at this point that on August 25th “it wasn’t ready”. I love ArenaNet, but kitten it that’s a true statement on many levels. Now, let’s move forward. I really want to support ArenaNet on this but the time table is very frustrating.

One last point

Prior to a game being released it belongs to the game studio. That is they can say things like “when it’s ready” and the community lines up at the gates chanting. The energy wave is there. Post release when things are broken it’s a different story. The game now belongs to the consumers/community. The community has the power at that point. When the features aren’t done and the developer’s statement continues to be “when it’s ready”, the community instead hears (appropriately) “it’s still not ready” and collectively yells back “you had your chance, we’re moving on”.

With Team Fortress 2 you can also set up a LAN for free -or- host your own server. That’s a huge thing…. I like Google’s motto: don’t be evil.

Let’s say the monthly rental cost of a private server is 1600 gems ($20 USD). You’ll have a situation where people will join sPvP guilds only if the guild leader and officers have this. Although the 5v5 teams don’t have to be guilds, that is exactly what we’re seeing. It makes since you you have a five man team you’re practicing daily with you would form a guild. So although it’s not labeled as GvG and there are no guild halls, you could argue that by charging to rent an Arena every month for gems you have situation where the game studio is charging for practice space that was free in the first Guild Wars through the guild hall system.

ArenaNet should charge a small very small fee for these and they should also give players the option to host their own Tournaments off of ArenaNets servers. They’ve choosen to make the sPvP side of the game completely sandboxed so why would this be any different than Team Fortress 2 or any other competitive pvp focused game that allows local private servers. Why must every feature be monetized?

Mange.8324:

I’m more concerned about the actual Guild Vs Guild aspect that Guild Wars completely lacks at the moment, where are the guild on guild matches? That’s what I’d like to see on the leaderboards.

As a community I think we have been kind to ArenaNet on the state sPvP shipped in. Consider it continues to have none of the following:

• Ranking (matching two teams of similar skill is insanely critical to the system not locking out newcomers)

• Observe mode

• Private servers

• Leaderboards

• Multiple types of play (it’s point capture only)

Yes I get it when we hear “we’re at the tip of the iceberg” but from another perspective these are critical things. With all due respect IMO sPvP shipped in a very early state. A state in which it can’t be taken seriously as an eSport (ArenaNet themselves have said observe mode is critical for it being taken seriously as eSport). I feel like the list above are core features and shouldn’t have been post release additions.

Here’s a thread to talk about it. Mostly positive news. Two key things I’m very disappointed were not addressed

• Cost of renting a private Arena/server.

• Ranking. Currently there is none. How will ranking be applied to the “for fun” free Tournaments and the paid Tournaments.

Also, observe mode should launch with private Arena rental. The is not a minor feature it is critical for GW2 sPvP to be taken seriously as an eSport. Frankly it should be top of the list. What are your thoughts?

Questions:

• What would you pay to rent a private server? It’s an important question because this is the point where free-to-play can go away. To be a serious sPvP you’ll have to have one of these just as much as you’ll have to have a vent or mumble server. The difference is voice chat servers have become free of charge. IMO the award of GEMS for pay tournaments is probably a setup to justify the upcoming cost of the rental, but to what end? What would you pay? 800 GEMS ($10 USD) 1600 GEMS ($20 USD)? What do you think is a fair monthly price to rent an Arena for your team?

• Would you expect to see free private Arena servers for LAN in the vein of Team Fortress 2? I don’t see why they would not allow this?

• Do you think Arena rental’s will make the sPvP side of the game more or less exclusive? I think it will likely make it more exclusive. If you take sPvP seriously you’ll want to be in a guild that has a private server. Casual PvE guild wanting to cross over to sPvP recreationally can do so but there is no real reward system in place for them.

EDIT: Although I’m glad this post finally surfaced I also feel like it could be summed up in a TL;DR Yes we are going to get the pay Tournaments working soon… We’ve decided you’ll have to rent a private server to practice and we’ll have that soon too, but not to worry because we’re going to award gems for ‘for pay’ Tournaments. Observe mode and leaderboards are coming, but we’re not making any promises on ranking, etc… Sorry no ETA on any of this guys, as usual “When it’s ready”

[continued] … The large scale meta events like Claw of Jormag also feel grindy. Where is the team strategy in these events. You’re following a pattern without strategy, that’s grind.

Regarding the Manifesto video reference: Let’s be honest about the manifesto video, it was a marketing idea. The making of book that comes with the CE confirms this. Yes, there was a passionate vision behind GW2 (this is true of every MMO) but that video was selling hype as much as it was selling vision. That’s just a group of people at ArenaNet doing their job.

It’s already been dissected point by point in another thread… The dynamic world is questionable because the events cycle and do not make long term changes to the world. I was envisioning dynamic events would leave effects that last at least a few days hopefully weeks and that’s just not the way they designed it. I feel like that aspect was over sold in the manifesto.

Grind… Yeah, there is grind. It’s less noticeable until you cap then for legendaries it’s 100% grind. There are dynamic events where you are going to gather item X and return it to NPC Y so that’s in plenty as well and was promised not to be.

Personal Story is a neat idea but is also not without its flaws. Namely, it’s designed as the primary vehicle for story delivery but at the same time it’s designed to be a.) played entirely solo and b.) designed so there is no consequence of avoiding it altogether. A play can wonder through the world doing only dynamic events and hearts, eventually make their way to the final dungeon beat Zhitan and have no emotional connection with it at all. I have a problem with that.

Not a perfect game, but could have been made a lot better with some minor tweaks… Hopefully those will come in time.

People are maxing Magic Find stats over everything else and running dungeons. Perhaps you aren’t. Others are. It’s a known problem most players are angry about… Being able to inspect another players gear is a common feature in MMOs that is a safe guard in many scenarios, it’s not just about bragging rights. It’s desperately needed in GW2.

Should only come into play when guesting is in place.

People are maxing Magic Find for dungeons and not telling anyone! They bring the party down. We need a way to inspect the stats on other players to keep everyone honest…. It’s simple, select player. Right-click “inspect” I see their details and the team can collectively decide if that’s going to work for us or not. AION had the ability to inspect character 2.5 years ago. It’s a very fundamental feature that’s missing in GW2 and it’s definitely hurting the PvE side of the game.

Guardians are suppose to be guardians and that means they should protect others which they already do insanely good (I’ve seen many times people looking only for guardian specifically because they are just so good at keeping party alive)

This is where the no dedicated support design begins to break down. They know Guardian is a problem. Although they may not need them, teams are wanting them and expecting Guardian’s to spec for support…. Although it may not be the Holy Trinity, when you have a profession that’s expected to behave a certain way when in groups I would say the entire design of the game according to the philosophy stated in the manifesto fails and the design can be called broken.

The problem for ArenaNet is, this is exactly how they designed Guardian. Now they are going to go nerf crazy to try and change the profession at launch to fix this… What does that leave the Guardian as? A shell of what it was originally envisioned to be?

This should have been worked out in beta

After putting so much work into getting my traits / runes / build worked out now I feel like I have to go back to the beginning… Since pre-launch I have been drawn to Guardian for the Retaliation mechanics of the class…. Now I have over 200 hours of play on a profession I’ve enjoyed but it’s dynamics have been changed. It’s been made weaker only because of what’s been observed in PvP.

Chaplin made a reference to “we’re watching Guardians and Mesmer”. Were the changes even play tested extensively in PvE settings? Did ArenaNet have players run every dungeon with the changes and see how much they hurt this profession? Or did they just decide we’ll make these changes and let the community play test it? This is my question, how does their internal process work?

It seems PvP balancing is being giving priority. I think it’s time we have PvP versions of some skills. ArenaNet had to resort to this for GW1. As much as I didn’t like it, at least things can be balanced separately.

I do not see how it’s possible that they would have had enough time to properly test these major changes in all PvE scenarios. IMO the profession has been almost ruined by this.

It seems this change is to address a structured PvP issue. People who focus on Structured PvP can roll a new character in 5- minutes and be at max level and max stat gear. They can easily choose to go a different path.

Level 80 PvE characters who’ve committed to the profession end up with changes that were made to address a pvp issue. Played focused on PvE get kittened because the balancing isn’t versioned between PvP and PvE.

I want the Guardian changed back. I want ArenaNet to explain what their process is for proving these things out before they change the (stopping the hemorrhaging in PvP because players are exploiting something is a horrible reason to retool a profession for PvE players) system. Who’s with me?

So many MMOs go through this, major class/profession overhauls in the first few months. Players get angry they leave and you know what else? They tell their friends how angry they are. They go on unmoderated websites and they vent and that’s what leads to the downfall. Players leaving and new players to scared to take the risk. Although GW2 is a free to play MMO do not underestimate a players perceived value of the time they will invest in a game. Their time is the real valuable thing and they won’t take the risk and get involved if people are that unhappy.

Major system changes/nerfs imply a failure in the beta testing. I know all this is normal with MMOs, just expected so much more with GW2. I think the major system changes we see in MMOs post launch has a lot to do with MMOs high failure rate in general.

I picked Guardian in part because I liked the way it used Retaliation. It wasn’t the only reason, but it sort of signed the deal…. Six months of beta testing then release. Fast forward a month and the community has created builds for PvP focused around Retaliation making the studio unhappy so they retool.

My advice to newcomers to GW2? Roll a Warrior. Simple play mechanics, not likely to get kittened with too much

Not sure, but it was an essential part of my support build…. I’m very upset about this. Also in spite of all the other bugs and issues in the game they decided reordering our greatsword skills was worth the time (so now we get to relearn that weapon in a way) regardless of if player wants it that way or not (most probably reworked keybindings, key word there beings “worked”)

The worst nerf to our profession yet.

LanceHavenbay.2067:

Most PvP and “competitive” play is driven by insecure individuals who seek to downplay others to gain security of your own. That’s why you see so many ragers and trolls in PvP environments compared to the traditional PvE model.

Unfortunately that is true…. A proper ranking system and league system would transform sPvP into a true eEsport which is not as you envision it when players of similar skill are pitted against each other. Unless you view all sports in general as something played by “insecure individuals” in which case we have to part ways because that’s ridiculous. When PvP as an esport is designed well you don’t have the best of the best pitted against noobs and it can work quite well. In GW2 there is still no ranking system unfortunately.

And in retort to Anet’s anti-grind memo: After finishing the game, all you have left is to grind. Here, let me grind for weapons… Oh, armor now. Oh, a title. Oh, dungeons. etc.

Maybe I feel that way because I actually enjoyed team-oriented combat such as Fort-Aspenwood in Guild Wars 1. Or the Speedclears because they required teamwork.

The dungeons are a grindfest and a deathfest for most players. The sPvP is just short of pointless. It’s not even teamwork. It’s just lots of facerolling. If you do tourneys, I’ll exclude you from that comment. WvWvW is pretty fun, because even though it is chaotic, you can sit down with friends and actually accomplish tasks.

GW1’s story content was primarily delivered through cooperative missions, GW2’s story content is primarily delivered through personal story chapters. Non-repeatable personal story chapters…. Dungeons in story mode are the closest thing to cooperative missions we have in GW2. We need a lot more content like this sprinkled in from level 1-80 and they need to be cooperative story missions not dungeons. Shorter, but requiring strategic small group play.

I also agree WvW is a lot of fun. I think WvW should be developed a bit more to have short term (2-3 hour cycling) objectives. Capturing/repairing structures and protecting supply chains should have some other objectives sprinkled in I think.