Guild Wars 2

As someone who has been involved in software development and game development I am struggling to understand why a Legendary weapon takes so long to develop? Having worked with artist before I have to say If the modeling and animating of a unique weapon skin takes more than a week then I strongly question the skill of those involved in the process. So I am assuming the players unique journey to craft the weapon is where the time is being invested…. Why can’t that process be reworked into a single journey used for all legendaries with only the materials being unique to each one? I don’t know what the unique challenges are to the team for 6 people to deliver 16 unique weapon skins, but if that challenge is indeed primary in create a unique system to obtain for each one, simply unify that system to reduce development load.

I quit playing GW2 last year, but occasionally I come back to the forums to see what’s going on and noticed a lot of negative reaction to Legendaries being removed and that made me wonder why creating this is such a difficult thing for ArenaNet. It seems their best strategy for survival would be to make the few people are still playing this game happy.

Glenstorm.4059:

In their latest posts, the devs have mentioned how the current meta doesn’t align with their “vision” for PvP. What exactly is their “vision”? The biggest thing I gleaned is that the pace of the game is too slow (something which has been painfully obvious), but I want to know more about their vision.

I understand that they may be reluctant to elaborate because they do not want to stifle player creativity, but I would very much appreciate them giving us at least a general gist of what sort of roles and builds they envision each class playing, from the horse’s mouth. Maybe that way, people can at least have realistic expectations when discussing balance.

Devs, you out there? Humor me pls?

The current PvP meta has been meta since two weeks after HoT launched, almost a month before ranked season began. I watched metabattle.com every day and remember these builds rising up to meta. It was very clear going into this ranked season that there was a major problem with the meta and it wasn’t enough of a priority for them to delay the ranked reason, stop Elite Specs from being in ranked, etc.. They had many options at their disposal to put the integrity of the game first, to value integrity and balance over novelty and appeasing the less serious crowd. It’s very clear the integrity of the game is lower priority to ArenaNet than delivering content on schedule so If the current meta doesn’t “align with their vision” they sure did take their sweet time figuring it out.

Anyone else tired of their politically correct responses to the community even when things are horribly bad? It’s all seems quite deceptive to me. It’s a play out of the Apple Computer playbook. “deny there is a problem… just fix the problem when you can and move forward”. Whatever works for them I guess.

Knowing ANet employees frequent these forums, I hope they will consider reviewing this video. It’s a discussion on Luck vs Skill in game design by Dr. Richard Garfield (creator of Magic: The Gathering). As a GW2 player it is a bit consoling to watch as you can begin to empathize with why certain decisions are made. It also brings to spotlight the paradox of a design that attempts to be casual friendly and maintain a serious aspect (PvE crowd vs PvP crowd for the context of GW2).

He goes into into about how when designing for a less serious audience you want more luck than skill to help maintain the player ego. After watching, you’ll begin to see clearly how sPvP in GW2 has by design not been very serious. It really does give validity to my theory that sPvP in this game has been designed to make the average PvE player who journey’s over to do sPvP every once in a while happy and NOT to create a balanced environment for serious players who want the win to come almost entirely from skill. When you consider the mechanics that have impacted the current meta and the overall design of mixing solo and team queue, tier lock-in for league divisions, etc… It’s all makes sense. If you want serious play, GW2 will probably never be your game because ArenaNet has an obligation to make the PvP side of the game fun and attractive to it’s core player base and it really is a very different mentality the PvE player has. We’ve seen this manifest itself in complaint after complaint about players not understand why after playing x amount of hours they still are stuck in a league division (the concept that you could reach a skill cap limit that would lock you into the appropriate league for your skill and not allow you to rise up any further is one a less serious player will take huge issue with. A more serious player will accept their rank cap and understand the mechanics of how match making works)

This is also a strong argument for why ArenaNet should spin-off sPvP into a new game with a new client, etc… completely separate from the MMO side of the game. If we had that then ArenaNet would be in a position to cater to the serious players and focus on making skill a priority over novelty. Not the other way around as it currently is and will continue to be.

Dr. Richard Garfield “Luck Vs Skill in games”
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dSg408i-eKw

Josh Davis.6015:

/discuss

PS, gold for purchases runes/amulets will be refunded, and the newly added amulets will be free.

Hi Josh,

Thoughts:

1.) Thank you for refunding gold to players. I suspect someone inside the company fought to win this for players and I commend the effort.

2.) Why did it take a Ranked PvP season for ArenaNet’s developers to figure out that certain mods created such unbalance in the game. In the weeks following HoT’s launch prior to the new ranked season starting these problems had already become obvious to those of us participating in PvP daily. I feel certain ArenaNet employees also knew this was a problem so why was a decision made to proceed forward with a ranked season knowing the impact? I stopped taking the ranked season seriously early December when I decided I would not allow a horribly unbalanced meta to suck me in overt he holidays, but many players have continued to put in 40,60,80,100s of hours. Sure, ultimately it’s their choice to keep playing, but don’t you think allowing these problems to persist up to this point shows a great deal of disrespect to the player base?

Frankly, everything you’ve announced is “too little, too late” IMO. I imagine that response may upset someone on the other side who thinks “we just had a successful HoT launch we deserve a break”. The bottom line is the game is a product and a well managed company would NOT take take a hard break from upkeep and maintaining that product. If vacations were planned and people needed time off, a better decision would have been to lock down PvP and to keep Elite Specs, etc… out of ranked season. Too much work? Another solution would have been to delay the ranked season. When you have these horrible balance issues and you KNOW that and still allow a sPvP ranked season that says a lot about how ArenaNet views sPvP. The integrity of the game was sacrificed for the novelty of delivering promised features on schedule. I see no indication that philosophy has changed. I believe when future updates come, again we’ll see a reactive ArenaNet not a pro-active ArenaNet and I take great issue with this. It’s a horrible way to run a company.

I’m just stating my opinion on it, but I remain very disappointed in ArenaNet. I think this ranked season is unacceptable and I think the decisions made destroyed the momentum GW2 sPvP was gaining leading into HoT. As a company, there is nothing ArenaNet can do at this point to win me back as a believer in GW2 sPvP as a serious game. You would need a separate sPvP client and a dedicated team for sPvP not a team subservient to needs and goals of the teams designing for the MMO side of the game.

Knoxxius.1524:

What the hell has happened to the PVP in this game? I’m an old player who has just returned and the introduction of the elite specs has completely messed up my beloved pvp… the hell…

Guardians are insta killing with TRAPS! Now I’ve seen everything… And Necromancers are just some devil spawn of pure aggravation to fight now.

I remember when warriors with a hundred blades was bad… this is a whole new category!

Can someone explain to me how current PVP is balanced?

Welcome back, let me catch you up to speed-

Realizations about sPvP…
In GW2 I believe sPvP integrity will always be compromised for sake of novelty because this is what pleases the PvE crowd. The PvE crowd plays for the fun of it over the win. Example: Disallowing Elite Specs in ranked PvP play would destroy the fun for those more casual PvP types and they would hate the idea. Even if those Elite Specs needed balance the causal PvE players attitute is “go with it and figure it out along the way”. PvP focused players attitude is “give me balance over everything else… give me a fair playing field and consistency so that when I get a win, I know it was my skill that earned that”. For the PvE player it’s a fun-first attitude. For the hard core sPvP player it’s a “winning in a fair fight is everything” attitude.

It’s a very different mentality. GW2 will always be about the fun-first novelty because that’s the kind of game it is and that’s what the majority of it’s player base wants.

What’s happened over the last few months…
They spent three years since the game launched making sPvP balanced and awesome. Then they released HoT and not only destroyed the meta, but also fundamentally changed many classes (e.g. A Mesmer’s primary function is now to bunker, a Ranger is now a Druid and is best utilized strategically healing, a Warrior is now useless). They took the best sPvP experience available on PC and destroyed it, they turned on ranked and introduced a broken League system then they went on vacation for holidays (seemingly giving the entire sPvP community the middle finger on their way out).

What has followed has been a follow of toxicity though the community. Open bashing of the game even by most ESL Pro GW2 players and some of our most popular Twitch streamers (here’s looking at you Leeto) openly resorting to unethical tactics (MMR tanking) to achieve their rank goals all the while cursing the game multiple times in their live Twitch feed.

As a developer ArenaNet could not have done a worse job with Leagues and ranked play this season. Two things would have solved the problem (Just two kitten things is all they had to do).

1.) Left Elite Specializations out of ranked play. Balance takes time to achieve. For the integirty of the game and the ranked season they should have been left out altogether for this first post-HoT release ranked season. That would kept the meta fun and ranked more aligned with skill than luck and exploit.

2.) They should have brought back solo and team queuing.

So now we’re hearing of balance updates and changes coming, but It’s too little too late and they still are clueless about how a mixed solo and team queue pollutes the system.

You have to consider the reason meta exist. Meta builds represent the most optimal configuration for a class given a certain context (usually in context of a team build in sPvP). It’s a numbers game but it’s also proven out by the community and meta rises up though the community.

If you care about utilizing your class to it’s fullest potential then you will go with meta build. There are those who scream “but a great meta build doesn’t make up for skill”. Sadly sometimes it does, but even if it doesn’t given two players of the identical skill. If one has a “most optimal” meta build and the other does not. That small variation will give the player running the meta the advantage.

Would you choose to play with a less than optimal build just to “have fun”? That’s the choice you have to make. However, It’s a choice you SHOULDN’T have to make

In a perfect world all things would be balanced and certain builds wouldn’t be so OP over other choices, we would have dozens of meta builds for sPvP. A small meta is indicitive of major balance problems.

The GW2 sPvP meta is now smaller than it ever has been and most of the builds in the meta are Codi heavy. As many have pointed out, the meta isn’t even fun.

When the fun is gone the game is destroyed. But if you’re thinking “all this is way too serious, I’m just going to run with whatever build I want in sPvP”. You’re in luck! ArenaNet doesn’t care either and has designed sPvP for those who don’t take it too seriously. That has become very clear by the choices they have made over the past three months regarding sPvP.

Interpretor.3091:

I don’t understand, you think you deserve a higher rank? I say you don’t. You are obviously stuck in ruby for a reason and if you are trying to solo queue you should be losing because it’s not the way that the game is meant to be played. .

You’re partially right. The whole League division system was designed around the new Guild Team concept. In the early stages it was discussed as being a ranked system for guild teams…. But somewhere along the way in its development focus shifted and it turned into a ranked system for individual players. But they decided to leave guild teams in the mix and make a mixed solo and team queue, both leading down the same path.

The the idea that you can earn you rank in lower divisions by solo queuing and then at some point (Ruby, Diamond or Legendary) you find yourself forced to play with a team is appealing on a white board in a dev planning session. But it should have been further vetted. Had they listened to this community they would not have made some of the decisions they did.

The mixed team and solo queue doesn’t work.

SoPP.7034:

Not just cause hes in legendary.

He also got to Legendary only by the hell that is soloq.

Additionally, when he got to legendary, he decided to go for the meta achivements (for wings). So started playing other classes he had no idea how to play in Legendary which is kinda legendary (unless he was in your team I guess).

Leeto is a Legend.

For anyone who tuned into his live streams, he made his frustrations very clear. He also publicly resorted to MMR tanking in live stream and other “unethical acts” along with spending most of his December in game…. If that’s what it takes, is that something you really want to be a part of? There is no prestige at the end of that line. No one except an irrational child is going to give your accomplishment any respect at all. However, he does get my respect for helping document for the world to see just how bad things are in GW2 sPvP.

To the men and women @ ArenaNet behind the series of decisions that delivered this horrible sPvP ranked season, I would say to each of you that I have no respect. In my perfect world you would be given no second chances, you careers taken from you and your livelihood’s impacted. Lessons need to be learned. Lessons only ArenaNet’s management have the authority to deal out.

I think the sPvP staff in context at ArenaNet have forgotten or just failed to consider the amount of hours so many of us committed to GW2 sPvP. Our love and respect for everything that the game was just prior to HoT releasing.

In arrogance, they completely ignored these problems. Many of us here even tried to forewarn of the pitfalls ahead… we weren’t push our opinions as much as just asking them to really rationalize the poor decision opportunities.

But they refused to listen. Most likely because they felt they knew more about the game than we did. Well, it’s very clear now just how incompetent some of them are. When you’re not competent to do a job and that failure has led to the discomfort or suffering of others (yes, the word suffering is not an over exaggeration… Look up the definition of the word and consider your emotional state correlated to their poor decisions that have risen up as you’ve played sPvP this season)

This leads to feelings of disgust, of hate. You get to the point where you begin to really start to channel some negative energy towards people you don’t know personally, but you’ve begun to despise at a very deep level.

For me it was at that point that I quit the guild I was in and stepped away from any organized approach to play. That decision saved my Christmas and was like coming up for air after almost drowning in the toxicity.

Again, to the men and women at ArenaNet who blotched this season. If you’re casually approaching all these comments and taking the attitude of “it’s just a game” then you clearly don’t understand the commitment some players have made to your product. Tetris is “just a game”. MMORPGs are virtual worlds people choose to invest their lives in. When horrible decisions are made you steal that from us. It’s not like loosing a loved one, but it is kind of like having your house burned down. Let’s not pretend that isn’’t how it is.

I wish your kitten company would grow up and start showing your player base more respect. I wish your management would take the actions needed to flush the poor talent and bring in strong talent to fix things.

I will continue to play casually (trying to limit myself to once a week at this point) but I’m ready to move on to whatever is next. I’ve gone through all the phases. Many have.

Ghedoriah.4290:

On another note, I’m going to be a dissenting viewpoint. I do not see Solo/Team Queue separation as a priority – or even necessarily sensible. Yes, I think we’ve all been there now where we’ve been stomped majorly in a match and it’s transpired that it was five people solo queued on one side against a full premade team on the other. I don’t see that as a problem with how people queue up so much as it’s potentially a problem with the matchmaking system.

[snip]

In that respect, I don’t think this is a problem that should be looked at from the perspective of “sometimes I get matched up against premades, the system is completely broken, split the queue types”, but instead from the idea that, largely in my experience, the system works very hard to match up similar sized numbers of partied people and that should be tweaked to give that slightly more importance over other matchmaking concerns when you’re talking about full or nearly full parties. I think we can safely justify this as, generally, parties of four people or more are going to be set up with complementary classes and builds and will often be using VOIP coordination, which represents a greater advantage than simply being a decent individual player in a similar division.

Well the most straightforward way to “deal with” that strategic advantage parties of “four or more” often have is simply to give them their own queue. I feel it’s common sense, but beyond my opinion. The split of a team queue and solo queue is something you find in EVERY SUCCESSFUL SPVP GAME. LoL, DOTA2, Heros of the Storm, Smite, etc….

The only way to truly prevent VOIP communication and team tactic is to provide a true solo queue that guarantees you will never face a full team or even a duo. That’s the only way to give solo queue players an even playing field and help insure those competing in teams that other teams haven’t gotten free wins off non-premades.

Mixing the two queues completely destroys the integrity of the system. You would not have an NFL “ranked” season game where New England Patriots went up against element random NFL players pulled from the top 20 NFL teams and given no time whatsoever pre game to really work out plays, coordination, etc… I know some people think “that would be awesome to see”. Perhaps it would for the novelty, but the integrity of the match wouldn’t be there. There would be no glory in the win because of the team advantages.

The problem with GW2 sPvP is that our community prefers the novelty over the integrity (or at the developers assume we do). If they honestly took ranked pvp seriously they would understand why we the players, we the spectators need for ArenaNet to respect the integrity of the game as much as we do. They do not. As long as solo and team queues are mixed there is no integrity in the rank. The other things they’ve mentioned are good ideas, but if we aren’t given a separate solo and team queue and given the ability to go do other things outside PvP lobby while we wait all the other changes they make are absolutely pointless, because it circles back to the integrity lost with the mix queue. It’s just rational.

Regarding balance. Will save any comments until after a new meta emerges post balance, but these changes will be coming from the same staff that neglected to see the importance of leaving the Elite Specs out of ranked this season until they could balance them and also some of the same staff who it took three years to get the pre-HoT pvp meta into the really great place it was at before they completely destroyed it. Why should we give them the benefit of the doubt? For the sake of balance, many of the Elite Specs are as much work to balance a new professions. When you factor in the new pvp weapon and armor mods that can be applied to the non-Elite specs, you have a very complex system that will likely take years to get back to where it was before.

Should they ban Elite Specs from PvP? No. But if they respected the integrity of the game they would have looked at their own history and what it took to balance the old meta and been able to estimate that there were serious balance problems. You can let people PvP with new & shinny Elite Specs and professions but locking them out of ranked for 3-6 months would be appropriate to give them time to break in and for initial balancing to really set in. People will disagree with me. I think most GW2 sPvP players value the novelty aspect of the game over taking it serious. This is what you get when you have a really great sPvP game (great from mechanical stand point) baked into a very non PvP focused game. It’s not for the serious pvp player and never will be. They will always cater to the majority spending money in the cash shop. They have an obligation to the NCSoft share holders to cater to those players over delivering the highest level of integrity in these matches.

Rebound.3409:

I don’t see anything about punishment for the people who clearly exploited (and are actively exploiting if u see the daily plathora of screenshots) and already got everything they needed in the first season. So should i understand nothing will happen to them? If yes be sure any exploit that will ever appear in pvp i will take advantage of it….because i consider it a reward at this point, by your lack of action.

I continue to feel that this is the reason they dropped Dishonor down to 16 minutes fixed. They implemented this and never addressed their community as to why this was done. To my knowledge, ArenaNet has never stated to the community “we made a mistake.”. Their is a pretentious attitude from ArenaNet that I believe trickles down from the executive level. I understand they had a great deal of pride in the core game, but we’re many years beyond the core game launch at this point.

No one likes a person or company that refuses to take responsibility for their mistakes and show a bit of humanity. Their continues to be spirit of elevated importance every time one of the staff post to these forums. They are rare occurrences for sure, but when they do it’s as if the gods of ArenaNet have stepped down from the heavens to grace us with a bit of information. I don’t know if that is truly how they feel, but that is the way I perceive it. It’s unwarranted and it’s pretentious. GW2 is a game that needs clear and transparent communication between developers and community.

Every game studio wants to have a sense a pride in their product and likes to think they are truly the best option out there. I get it, but kitten MMO begins to transition into it’s mid-life their should be maturing of communication. Those on staff responsible for delivering information to us can only work with what they are being given. I am not trying to shoot the messenger. I just hope we see a paradigm shift in regard to how the powers that be choose to communicate with us.

An open dialog between game studio and community means clearly explaining changes that are being implemented. The 16 minute Dishonor change is a great example of a change that was made without any information as to why being given to the community. Did they expect we wouldn’t notice this? Did they expect us not to question why this was done? Companies that don’t keep clear communication going are usually choosing not to because they have information they don’t want the community to know. I call this “covering things up” and I think that’s a appropriate way to label it, but I suppose it can be subjective.

It comes down to a matter of respect. Companies that respect their communities keep a very open line of communication and let their player base know the information coming in is valuable feedback even if they can’t act on all of it.

Nice to see developers responding in this thread.

SlayerSixx.5763:

Even league of legends allows up to duo Q in their ranked soloQ. Of course, since their population is high enough, they’ll have more people going duoQ to make it so that sides both have a duoQ.

As far as I know, they might even be adopting a similar system to GW2 where they would be allowing even 5man premades into soloQ with the intent of always making it so that both sides have the same amount of partied players.

Of course, but even in LoL or any respected PvP game you have the option to team queue or solo queue. Just because a ranked solo queue exist, doesn’t mean you don’t have the option to take a duo into ranked team queue if you really want to go there. The point of separation is for the benefit of the solo queue players, the team queue players already have the advantage.

Hi ArenaNet PvP staff, welcome back from your two month vacation…. Thank you for taking some time this week to huddle up and figure out how to improve leagues moving forward. Clearly you have no intent to address the issue of mixed solo and team queue and queuing outside Heart of the Mist, etc…

There is no way to take ranked pvp serious when you have a blended solo and team queue. As I’ve explained in other post, you would not have an NFL team go up against 11 random NFL players tossed together. The NFL team would have a huge advantage in terms of communication, strategy and the overall advantage of trust, respect and coordination a TEAM has. Five players who solo queued together even have a disadvantage when the opposing team has a duo queue who between the two maintain these elements. This is common sense.

The FACT that ArenaNet blends solo and team queues for League divisons shows that as a company ArenaNet does not believe this level of scrutinization and seriousness should be applied. It does not matter which MMR algorithm you use to try and allow the server to create these random teams for solo queuers, the other TEAM elements are missing. It’s not good enough to assume a new or poorly performing guild team is an ok fit for give man solo queue team. The disadvantage for the solo queue players is still there. You can’t argue this.

I know your primary concern is taking care of your core. It’s undeinable that your GW2 core is a PvE focused player base. As a business you would be making incredibly bad decisions to not take care of your majority base. You business model demands that you take care of them. I believe the current sPvP system is designed for the casual player in mind and to provide a sense of progression for the casual PvE player who ocassionally does PvP instead of it representing true rank. Until you split solo and team queues there is no way sPvP in GW2 can be taken seriously.

Aidenwolf.5964:

SamTheGuardian.2938:

Nova Stiker.8396:

Er, so you are blaming ArenaNet for their game to be hackable? That’s like blaming the tree for wrecking your car.

So far the biggest hack is the teleport, which is minor compared to other online games with completely game breaking cheats. Heck, there are bots in League of Legends at challenger rank. Just be happy the chronobunker isn’t a robot able to outplay a 1v5.

So uh, the lesson here is, don’t cheat. You’ll get your kitten banned.

Yes, securing the product (be it a game or an OS) is absolutely the responsibility of the software developer/publisher. There is an acceptable period of time where after a hack is known for the developer to address the problem. A quick google search reveals the current implementation of the “teleport hack” has been in use since HoT launched. So this has been lingering at least 2.5 months and considering how winning at sPvP is largely about mobility I can’t think of a more determental hack to the game than teleport. At least a bot can be easily detected. At least Riot Games communicates with their community and seems to have a handle on their product.

Ok bear with me here I’m about to white knight like a Mo Fo which I never do. You’ve just seen them ban a metric ton of players. When this season is over look for another wave in PVP. Based on very recent (this week) experience, Anet give no warning they simply strike.

PvP is a more difficult area to hack check based solely on the wording used in another hack case. There aren’t map points in PvP, I’d guess that’s why these have yet to be dealt with. Of course there are other methods they could use we’ll see what happens but they’ve just shown how they deal with hackers.

While we are bared from discussing hack specifics. It’s pretty well documented the “teleport” hack is allowing players move to any position they desire utilizing the mini-map (no wp required) . When players do this in sPvP most of the time they don’t teleport in on cap point, but nearby. If they are organized they will have a Mesmer on team when makes it impossible to know if a portal has been dropped or if they are indeed hacking. Ever wonder how the Reaper managed to appear in mid so quickly after you finsihed him? If you are observant, you’ll see them.

Nova Stiker.8396:

Er, so you are blaming ArenaNet for their game to be hackable? That’s like blaming the tree for wrecking your car.

So far the biggest hack is the teleport, which is minor compared to other online games with completely game breaking cheats. Heck, there are bots in League of Legends at challenger rank. Just be happy the chronobunker isn’t a robot able to outplay a 1v5.

So uh, the lesson here is, don’t cheat. You’ll get your kitten banned.

Yes, securing the product (be it a game or an OS) is absolutely the responsibility of the software developer/publisher. There is an acceptable period of time where after a hack is known for the developer to address the problem. A quick google search reveals the current implementation of the “teleport hack” has been in use since HoT launched. So this has been lingering at least 2.5 months and considering how winning at sPvP is largely about mobility I can’t think of a more determental hack to the game than teleport. At least a bot can be easily detected. At least Riot Games communicates with their community and seems to have a handle on their product.

The hack that’s related to this team being banned (“teleport hack”) is very widespread. If you pay attention in matches you can see players on classes without teleport skills and without a Mesmer on their team to drop portal jumping all over the map. I took note one day last week after playing for a few hours. Out of 8 matches I believe at least 3 of those had players using this cheat…. It’s been a widespread problem since HoT launched. I don’t know why ArenaNet can’t contain this one, but it seems out of their control.

Message to ArenaNet: If you are unable to patch this your product is toast. Where is the integrity in WvW or sPvP and why has this continued for so very long. Is there a competency issue with your software engineers or just a metaphoric crack so big in your game engine that is not repairable?

I understand not talking about exploits, but covering up the problem is not the answer. To me it’s unethical for a game studio to try and cover up a problem that they know is enabling many players to gain a competitive edge. It’s just wrong.

There’s a BIG difference in players admitting there’s a problem and players openly talking about how to exploit. Any game studio that fails to qualify these differences is not doing right by the game community. Essentially we the honest players are the ones being cheated by the game studio.

How long will we wait before this is addressed? Will someone inside ArenaNet be brave enough to talk about this? I have a friend who works for IGN who thinks there is a story to be told here.

http://segmentnext.com/2016/01/07/popular-guild-wars-2-team-suck-at-love-banned-for-hacking/

ReaperJr.5967:

SamTheGuardian.2938:

ReaperJr.5967:

It’s funny how OP says he’s not taking this ranked season seriously yet feels the need to post on the forums on how he’s going to practically abandon matches he feels are stacked against him. Gr8 b8 m8 i r8 8/8

Also, he seems to be suffering from an extreme case of the dunning kruger effect. ’It’s always everyone’s fault but mine!’

I’m not sure why you can’t comprehend that someone can not take this ranked season serious but yet still be very passionate for the game in general and optimistic for its future. That’s the place where I’m at (although “optimistic about it’s future” shifts a little) I do believe ArenaNet reads these forums and they have the power to change things. I think our thoughts on the game, even thoughts on rational for forfeit are worthy discussion points.

I doubt threatening to leave games because reasons are going to make anet do much. It’s just making you look childish as this is how every team based game works. There’s bound to be ‘bad team mates’ no matter how good the system is. You just have to deal with it.

Bear in mind I’m talking exclusively about solo queuing…. It’s not entirely bad team mates. That is the problem sometimes you end up with match ups where you know the odds based on team configuration and you can observe that playing out very quickly within the first few minutes of the match. It circles back to so many broken/unblanced things in PvP right now. This is not about me ditching bad players or unskilled players. 150 points into a match isn’t enough time to make a fair assesment of a players skill, but sometimes it is enough time to observe the composite of what’s going on and determine an outcome after you 1600+ match doing the same thing over and over again.

“You just have to deal with it”. Actually, no you really do not! Set yourself free with this realization. You do have a choice. You may have attached some self-made moral code as to what you must do and what you must not do, but that is your choice and you always have a choice.

If you choose to toss 5-10 minutes of your life away to a loss that is your choice. I value my time a bit more. You don’t “have to deal with it”. You have a choice of not dealing with it and taking the penality. That is what the function the dishonor system servers. The dishonor mechanism is just another system in the game. If you break a rule it renders it’s penalty. Still no one can explain why ArenaNet decided to completely nerf the dishonor system and nix the hour+ dishonor that was been placed on players for abandoning queue and matches. ArenaNet decided to reduce the penality to 16 minutes for some reason. Rationalize why they would reduce a peanlity unless they felt the offense deserved less punishment given the current state of things.

Just because you have some pseudo moral issue with my rational doesn’t mean it’s not logical.

ReaperJr.5967:

It’s funny how OP says he’s not taking this ranked season seriously yet feels the need to post on the forums on how he’s going to practically abandon matches he feels are stacked against him. Gr8 b8 m8 i r8 8/8

Also, he seems to be suffering from an extreme case of the dunning kruger effect. ’It’s always everyone’s fault but mine!’

I’m not sure why you can’t comprehend that someone can not take this ranked season serious but yet still be very passionate for the game in general and optimistic for its future. That’s the place where I’m at (although “optimistic about it’s future” shifts a little) I do believe ArenaNet reads these forums and they have the power to change things. I think our thoughts on the game, even thoughts on rational for forfeit are worthy discussion points.

Xanctus The Dragonslayer.2318:

Man OP, I do hope you get banned. You know pretty well what you are getting into when you entered pvp. You are aware of the consequences for kitten’s sake!!!. Yet you continue and ruin the game for others. The blames lies entirely with yourself here when it comes to people playing legit and still not performing to how you envisioned it.

Punishing other players and taking them all down with you for ‘’sucking.’’ is as dishonorable as it can get. All u have to do is actually try to win here. And not grief. But they are under no obligation to actually play at a level you envisioned. they are not obliged to do so whatsoever. U can however encourage them to get better. But that’s it. if one is a casual player pvx player and simply plays for fun but with the intent to win, u cannot hold them to it if they simply play like that in the end. It’s the same with people demanding you don’t play thiefs or warriors.

Terrible, Just terrible.

Either don’t play, make your own team or play hotjoin.

Well obviously I don’t agree with your perspective. If you’re playing with a team and team queuing you’re getting a different experience. For solo queue, I just can’t find any respect for the game in it’s current state. To reiterate, I believe ArenaNet dropping dishonorable to a fixed 16 minutes says a lot about where the company stands on the state of things right now.

To be very clear

• I do not rage quit just because we are loosing.
• I do not even “rage” quit
• I explain to the team what I"m about to do then explain in map chat that I am forfeiting.
• Dishonor system issues a penality for my actions and I choose to take the penality instead of dealing with 5-10 minutes of mindless play (let’s not forget even a ESL Pro team did something similar just a few weeks ago).

I find it very hard to respect anyone who is still taking this ranked season so serious that this is a real problem. I don’t respect the way you think and I absolutely do not want to be on your team either, so yes please block me if you think that would reduce our odds of having to party up.

You don’t have the authority to tell me or anyone else how to play the game. There is a dishonor penality in place by ArenaNet to deal with certain actions and if a player knows the consequences and takes the penality that is a choice. The rules allow it. If you can’t get your head around that then perhaps you should be the one not playing.

Wolfs Shadow.7234:

I was one of the unforunate souls who had him on my team not once but twice.

And he will rage quit or go AFK within minutes of a match.

1st time he rage quit 5 minutes into a match, we even made a come back and WON but still lost 2 pips because it was 4 vs 5.

2nd time he announces he is going AFK after only 2 minutes of match starting. And we weren’t even that far behind. My entire team reported him, but as usual Anet doesn’t do anything.

Don’t talk about respect as if you know what it is. If you are going to rage quit do it in hot join. Don’t ruin the game for everyone else who actually try in matches win or lose.

All I can hope is blocked players aren’t teamed up because I honestly never want you on my team again. I have ZERO respect for rage quitters.

Was someone else. We weren’t on team together.

Sunshine.5014:

SamTheGuardian.2938:

If they fixed the game my attitude would absolutely change.
…

Lol. Obviously the rule is not favorable to you, but you will never get good with this attitude.

It’s like irl you say: “We have income inequality problem. Since they are not fixing inequality, I’ll just sabotage any not rich company I join. If they fix inequality then I’ll change my attitude and be rich. I’m not at fault at all, and I don’t need to improve myself.”

I’m glad I don’t have to get you in my team in Legendary division.

Well you say"You’re not going to get good". “Get good” at what exactly? “Good” at playing one of the mindless meta builds that’s all about beginning the interrupt/condi chain first? Dealing with luck-of-the-draw solo queue players who are completely clueless about meta or simply don’t care? Get good at building up a tolerance to people exploiting MMR or even using hacks?

If you’ve managed to “get good” at all that and are still enjoying the game then more power to you. If you’re in Legendary then you’ve been playing with a team and you’re experience is entirely different than mine and I really have no reason to tolerate your inability to qualify these differences.

Much worse than when you left. On top of a horrible meta we got a horribly implemented League division system. The whole community is poison.

WuGzaGenius.5684:

Its a mmorporno. Its not even on scale with runescape! How can something like that compare to Gw2?

It won’t, but then again I would imagine most people in this forum are interested in 5-6 man team tactical PvP done right. After being burned from one MMORPG company refusing to treat sPvP like a first class citizen I have no interest in playing another MMORPG just to get to the PvP aspect of the game.

So where should we go next? Blizzard’s Overwatch has my attention. Other games will be coming in 2016. IMO if you jump into BnS and think the sPvP side of that game is going to get a lot of budget to be great think again. We get down to the inherent differences between stand alone sPvP games and sPvP games that live inside/imprisoned inside an MMO client.

If you can’t rationalize why sPvP baked into an MMORPG will always get much less polish than stand alone sPvP games then a class on economics or business management may be worth your time.

Well they did drop the dishonor from stacking up to several hours down to a fixed 16 minutes regardless of how many times you do it. Why would ArenaNet do that without publicly acknowledging it or stating a reason? Perhaps their way of apologizing for this horrible meta and their overall mishandling of this ranked season. That’s the way I’m taking it, but I suppose it is open for interpretation.

Regardless of the “why”, you have to realize people are driven by incentives and in-game morality is highly subjective. It’s up to the game studio to create those incentives. Dropping dishonor penality to be a mild handslap is a very strong statement by ArenaNet. It has given people more incentive to dc mid match not less.

I don’t even know where to begin with trying to rationalize ANet’s overall strategy with sPvP at this point or the decisions they have made post HoT launch. I see no sign of competency whatsoever. It seems a series of knee-jerk reactions by an amateur staff trying to figure out what to do next (Am I really being too critical ArenaNet?)

There is a completely rational train of thought that says if you really care that much, you’re taking things way too seriously. Given some of the mishandling of sPvP over the past few months that is my current stance.

Crinn.7864:

I see that the OP has hit the end of the curve.

Cute graphic, but you’re off point. GW2’s design managed to hold many of us for three years before HoT changed so many things and has transitioned us into the “grind sucks” phase. Why did this happen? They effectively have destroyed WvW and sPvP which were two of the most popular “end-game” aspects of GW2. Instead of properly giving WvW and sPvP what it needs, they introduced Raids and reworked systems to make grind a much, much more common aspect of the game across the board (PvE and PvP).

So while your little image my hold true for 90% of the trash MMOs on the market it didn’t really apply to GW2 until post HoT where now even sPvP is a form of grind for pips. It’s really disgusting what they have done.

Are you really surprised some people are reacting to this in the forums and are angry? Were you raised to not speak out when you feel something needs to be addressed? You do realize the louder you cry out the more likely those capable of implementing change are to listen… Or as grandma liked to say “the squeakily wheel gets the grease”

Valkyriez.6578:

Go read the forums of any single mmorpg or moba or whatever genre out there that has PvP, don’t worry I’ll wait.

Done? Sweet. I hope you noticed they all sound exactly the same as this one. Regardless of game, if it has PvP, it has people who think it’s the worst ever and isn’t worth the time.

And you find communication between developer and player base. No other sPvP baked in MMORPG or MOBA has this game crippling stack of problems. It’s case of really great sPvP in GW2 prior to the expansion release and ArenaNet being very careless about allowing an entire meta reset into ranked sPvP. You combine that with the inherent problems of a mixed solo/team queue system, known use of hacks, MMR tanking, Pro players publicly rage quiting in the middle of a sponsored pro match. The very top ESL Pro players in GW2 publicly criticizing the same things all rational players are…. If you want to pretend that there isn’t anything wrong or just keep your head down and not say anything, that’s fine. The world needs it’s “let’s not shake the system, yes-men”. But don’t try to discredit those who are fed up and just want to be heard.

Does LoL, DOTA2, Heros of the Storm, etc.. have their unique set of issues? Sure. Are they as game breaking and ridiculous as what ArenaNet has done to sPvP in GW2 following HoT? Not even close. You want to argue? Go ahead, the proof is in the reactions of the “Pro” players. You can see just how bad things have gotten.

sPvP in GW2 is garbage and it is that way based on poor decisions made by ArenaNet staff. Heads should be on the metaphoric chopping block of this bs, but since so little of the GW2 population really cares about sPvP that won’t likely happen.

Malediktus.9250:

Looks like a good addition to my block list.

Please do. If you’re still taking this ranked season seriously then our perspectives are so different I’d rather not have you on my team. Not ever.

Cuchulainn.7421:

I don´t play anymore since almost 3 weeks now and i´m happy with. I don´t know if i come back.

Anet can kidding oneself. >6500 pvp matches played and finished. Saw everything in pvp, played everything in pvp, had blasts in pvp. But there is far more frustration now than blasts, so it´s better to quit i think.

And this is the overwhelming sentiment coming from those of us kittenpected the sPvP side of the game and saw it grow to the great place it was at right before HoT launched.

ItIsFinished.9462:

SamTheGuardian.2938:

…..when I see the team isn’t trying…..

SamTheGuardian.2938:

…..or strongly suspect someone is tanking the match to reduce MMR…..

SamTheGuardian.2938:

….but when you see strong indication of where the outcome is going….

SamTheGuardian.2938:

…..and see very clear mistakes by members of your team…..

You fall into the category of “It’s everyone’s fault but mine”. With a sleight hint of paranoia.

You would be making several assumptions about me to make this assessment including the criteria I’m using to make the decision to bail. Since you aren’t in the games with me and seeing what I’m seeing you have no basis for your assessment. You don’t like what I have to say and just want to be argumentative. Not going to play that game.

Barzhal.2640:

But you are well aware of the fact you can get matched with players that suck. You’re aware that people are queuing to tank their MMR. You’re well aware that the game studio doesn’t give two kittens about their PvP product, and yet you chose to queue for a ranked match. Why then would you queue at all if, despite your awareness of the situation, you know these things happen?

Well, I’m exclusively solo queuing and I believe at this point my fellow solo queue players are in the same boat. If they are still trying to take this sPvP season seriously then that’s really on them, because these problems are very real and anyone who would continue to take it serious enough to get angry about someone doing this in these situations is taking it too serious. That’s the bottom line.

There’s more fun to be had in ranked and 16 minutes isn’t that long to wait for the next match when I’m witnessing a team that has no chance. In fact, I’ve found I can utilize that time to get level headed again and it helps me manage the anger.

Not saying my technique is the best choice for everyone, but it works and it’s one way to cope with some very bad design decisions, keep the game fun and not vent in map or team chat.

ItIsFinished.9462:

SamTheGuardian.2938:

I know some believe it’s the honorable thing to always see the match though, but when you see strong indication of where the outcome is going and see very clear mistakes by members of your team I disagree with those who think there is any dishonor in leaving (you can disagree all you want to, you will never convince me otherwise).

I won’t try to convince, but I will say this: The statement above is why you always be at the bottom.

Until you change your attitude, you’ll never get better.

If they fixed the game my attitude would absolutely change. There are an insurmountable number of problems right now with ranked sPvP, that is beyond subjective. Regardless if I play ranked or unranked, that will not change. When I play I want to maximize my fun of the game and that means playing ranked. I didn’t design the mixed solo team queue or a system that gives incentive to exploits. I’m not taking it seriously anymore. It’s “just a game” to me at this point. If you are still taking it very seriously, we just see the game very differently. I don’t believe it can be taken seriously. That’s the point you get to beyond the “bad attitude”. You just simply don’t care anymore. You find your fun in the game without taking it too seriously and that includes taking certain penalties to compensate for the failures of the game design. You do what you must to keep the blood pressure low.

If you want to view that as my fault, that’s your choice but I see it as the failure of ArenaNet. It’s very clear that I’m not the only one doing this, I’m just stating publicly a rational behind my decision to execute this behavior.I encourage everyone to play this way and I encourage ArenaNet to fix their game.

As many of you, I’ve invested a great deal of time. When faced with a scenario that’s the result of bad design I feel the game studio is giving me a choice to take the “dishonor” or proceed forward and loose 10-15 minutes of my day to a broken system that will only serve to frustrate me.

The options are play and deal with the frustration, don’t play at all or play and when faced with these scenarios take the 16 minute penality. I don’t mean to impact anyone else, but option #3 is just the most appealing. I have the most incentive to take it so I will continue to.

Since the penality has been fixed at 16 minutes dishonor, I’ve found myself dropping a lot more matches when I see the team isn’t trying or strongly suspect someone is tanking the match to reduce MMR….. I’m not sure why ArenaNet decided to change the dishonor system and reduce it to a fixed 16 minutes, but I’m glad they did.

I know some believe it’s the honorable thing to always see the match though, but when you see strong indication of where the outcome is going and see very clear mistakes by members of your team I disagree with those who think there is any dishonor in leaving (you can disagree all you want to, you will never convince me otherwise).

This has been something I’ve only recently come to believe, I guess it comes with my general loss of respect for the game. When the game studio starts to care more I think I will too. Until they do, I won’t

kuritsutian.2987:

What if Ranked play becomes soloQ only, that way you are proving your worth, not your team’s worth, you can still suggest the classes you want to be put with but not premade whatsoever, fixing along the way the exploit system of using lower division teammates to easy up matching.

Unranked can still be the place to farm victories or just to experience nice organized matches.

Other solution would be more elitist and is the opposite, turn unranked soloQ only, having the solo players to deal against the chance to be matched against a premade team, after all is their choice not to team up specially knowing you are going for rank here.

Opinions?

That is one way to handle the problem. Either split the queues out or if you keep a single queue nix team queue or nix solo queue. It just needs to be one or the other…. They designed League Divisions to be something attributed to guild teams (e.g. the guild team would be ranked) and decided to change it to be bestowed on a player instead. The whole League division system as implemented is an example of what we call Agile software development (small incremental development) gone horribly wrong. It would be a case study on it. The league division design that was released is asinine. The product of a series of very bad decisions (I assume many knee-jerk decisions). You would think there should be long term consequences for these decisions on the careers of those responsible…. If GW2 sPvP were something people actually cared about then there probably would be, but the hard truth is sPvP in GW2 is a nice little side attraction that ArenaNet clearly doesn’t know how to deal with.

Prior to HoT release Colin is heard in interview saying how the sPvP side of the game is the fastest growing aspect of the game and you can here the shock and wonder in his voice. THEY know they haven’t given sPvP much love. I don’t think they have any plans to.

Their business model is to spend money on Development hours on things that keep players who spend money in the cash shop happy. sPvP players have most of what they need and probably don’t buy much…. As sPvP has been designed, figuring out how to make those of us who do mostly sPvP spend money in the cash shop is a challenge. If they could crack that nut, it would give them some incentive to justify improving sPvP. I believe they currently have none. I believe this failed ESL Pro season will likely not be repeated. They will just write it off as a failure instead of fixing sPvP.

The illogical design of GW2 sPvP ranked league divisions-

Rank can be applied to an individual or to a team, but these are two very different things. Consider that Peyton Manning’s individual rank is completely seperate from the National Football League’s rank for his team the Denver Broncos. When the Broncos play, they play against other teams and the team rank is the primary focus of all team sports. The individual player rank, while not discarded, has much less focus than the team. The team is the entity that wins the ultimate prize.

Conquest and Stronghold are team sports. The team should be the focused ranked entity, but AreanNet didn’t build it that way. They decided to make the individual players rank the focus. Guild teams exist in game now, but they aren’t the primary ranked entity although the Leaderboards would make you think they are.

The whole point of confusion comes from mixing solo and team queues into one big pool. It has created a predominately solo queue experience with a handful of guild teams dominating Legendary and Diamond.

What we need

• Separate solo queue and team queue

• Separate solo and team league divisions (if Peyton Manning were teamed up with 10 other random NFL players that were by stats his peers it would still be a very unfair fight for this random (pug) team to go up against the Seattle Seahawks). As long as there are mixed team and solo queues, the game can’t be respected because the integrity isn’t there.

If they don’t want to put a lot of effort into it, they should nix guild teams altogether and make ranked 100% solo queue… Or nix solo queue altogether and make it 100% guild team play. It just makes no sense that these two be the same, it shows how little respect and how tongue-in-cheek ArenaNet sees sPvP

I’m left beveling they the game studio doesn’t take much of anything seriously and that serious gamer aren’t the type they want to stick around anyway. It wasn’t until this ranked League division system was introduced that I really correlated “causal, not-too-serious” with really horrible design. I really thought sPvP would be the aspect of the game they took seriously, especially given the push to go Pro with ESL.

In trying to reason why things have remained as they have, I keep coming back to ArenaNet trying to cater to their predominate PvE base. I truly believe they feel if PvP became too serious and were handled with the integrity needed to be true eSport it would turn off their core crowd.

My observation after being with many guilds over the years is that the Gw2 player who sticks around after the newness wears off is the same crowd that plays Final Fantasy on-line. They are in it more for the social experience and don’t really care if a lot of systems in game are broken. They have a very high degree of tolerance for poor design and in general just want to be able to grind their way to whatever prestigious new-and-shinny they can get. I’m not trying to insult anyone, but that is in my experience the GW2 player base today, several months following a major release.

I would strongly disagree with anyone who says “all MMORPGs are that way”. They just aren’t. Each community is different. I really believe following HoT, GW2 has developed the worst community I’ve seen in a very long time.

Was suppose to start back up today… Didn’t happen…. Does anyone have info?

style.6173:

you need to understand one thing. ANET doesn’t care about balance. They don’t care about the fairness of the league system. They don’t care whether the leagues are set up correctly.

The only care about the total number of players who are taking part and the total time they are spending playing.

By their metric, I’m sure leagues are successful even if as a player it is a complete fail.

If the system is addictive and keeps people playing, I’m sure there are those at ANet who see that as successful and consider everyone else to be the typical complaining crowd you get with any release.

I would give them more credit, but this is the same ArenaNet who ignored pleas from myself and others pre-HoT launch to keep the Elite Specs out of ranked sPvP. So., given what we have to go with I would say you are correct. It’s a simple numbers game to them… The thing I doubt they are factoring in are all of us who keep playing because we miss what the game was. When we sign in it’s more like a trip to the cemetery to visit those we’ve lost. We are simply playing more as we go though the denial, acceptance process. I’m sure a good number just walk away cold turkey, but for those of us who once really loved the game (the veteran players who they stabbed in the back with this release), it’s a lot more difficult to let it go. By reason end I suspect those numbers they are looking at will give them a better snapshot of the damage done.

Then it’s too late to fix things. sPvP players tend to devote themselves to a few games. When we leave one we don’t come back to it. This is one of the very different aspects of PvP vs PvE. I can’t stand the typical PvE gamer. I can’t relate to someone who enjoys spending 30, 40, 60+ hours in game doing very repetitive task to build a Legendary. Or would spend 6-10 hours in game several nights a week working on a Raid. It’s not that I couldn’t spend my time that way, it’s just I don’t find the fun in it. I despise repetition.

This ranked sPvP season has been all about repetition.

Repetition on a meta that is no fun to play whatsoever. Combined with paranoia of hackers, MMR tankers and a mixed solo/team queue that makes luck a huge part of the process and leaves the resulted league division rank with no integrity or respect at all.

There is no prestige to be earned in this system. It’s a complete joke to those who desire for sPvP in game to model real world sports and for rank to be indicative of something earned by skill on a even playing field. With little fear of cheating thanks to success audits and policing by the organization keeping things going.

Erzian.5218:

It is certainly possible to reach diamond without abusing the system. Stop being mad at people for being better or more lucky than you.

It’s possible, but the fact that it’s possible to get their by cheating the system means there is no integrity in it…. There is no respect for the rank because of ArenaNet’s stack of failures. I continue to be convinced they see sPvP as a nice little side thing the PvE community comes and does when they get bored and nothing more. When ArenaNet starts taking sPvP seriously then the community will also. Until them, Diamond and Legendary are meaningless.

I’d love to enter into a public exchange with the ArenaNet staff on why they feel otherwise, they will never give me that. They won’t properly engage any of us because this is not a priority for them. They have more important things to attend to and they expect us to move on to other games if we are that unhappy.

Mightybird.6034:

Funny how people say rank does not equal skill, they feel very strongly about this…

Then you see them complaining they got paired with <insert lower ranked> tier and it lost them the game.

Ahem.

You can “grind” your way to Ruby. Given enough time, eventually you will get the wins needed to get there thanks to the five pip tier lock-in for divisions Amber-Ruby. Beyond Ruby you need a team and strategy or you need a lot of luck and a good solo queue strategy. Skill is a given.

Unfortunately in this system there are so many things muddying the waters it’s impossible to look at someone’s rank (below Legendary) and respect their skill. The system offers too many non-skill related ways to be played.

This is why balance is so very important and why having a limited meta is so very bad. MMR tanking, teleport cheating, etc… These things all stack up and the bottom line is if you want to look at a player who is in Diamond and think “wow she’s amazing” that’s up to you, but most likely their skill was a small part of it. The fact that we know division rank is achievable by using all these non-skill related strategies has destroyed it.

It’s a very, very difficult thing for a game studio to properly deliver ranked PvP that can be respected. ArenaNet has failed to do that and I have no faith they will manage to take it there in the foreseeable future.

The amount of resources needed to do it right would be significant and the PvP side of an three year old MMO isn’t worth it. I don’t believe ArenaNet would see it as worth it and I don’t believe NCSoft would.

The best thing they can do is take the GW2 play mechanics (combat engine) and try splitting out the PvP side of the game into a new stand alone product. There’s a real opportunity to build reimagine PvP conquest with new classes using the existing engine and make something amazing, but it definitely needs to be its own thing.

Izanagi.9830:

Yo here is one of the first legit EU Legendary without exploiting the new League System with lower Divisions like Amber/Smaragd/Sapphire or Stronghold Farming.

I don’t mean to be negative, but there is nothing “legit” about any acquisition obtained during this ranked season. My apologies if you did earn it fairly, but the way things are I’m inclined to think it was more about “playing the system” to achieve the goal than a true representation of skill….. ArenaNet, is it too much to ask for a system that gives us a fair playing field without the game reducing to a handful of build’s that no one enjoys playing? Is it too much to ask for a League division system where league division system that actually represents your skill instead of how much your grinded matches?

As long as it stays like it is, PvP is just going to be a big playground where the PvE players come when they get bored. When need to all be honest and realize that is all that it is.

I so recognize this too. It is so frustrating to show good will toward your teammate only for them to ignore questions like ‘who goes home’ or polite request like ‘plz let’s focus mid and home forget far’ (and one goes far) or ‘ignore beast plz’. When I see this and the -2pip I know someone kittened us up.

When it happens I just see the smiling faces of Colin Johansen and Mike O’Brien. The thoughts that follow are from a pretty dark place….. Don’t want to feel this way, not even sure those are the right two people to be projecting towards but someone is certainly responsible.

Random Weird Guy.3528:

Seriously I can only play PvP in 1 hour bursts now before I get too angry at the game and stop.

I’ve never in any point of my GW2 life had this issue, the game is at a massive all-time low and lots of people are going to be leaving the game – even those who don’t certainly aren’t going to be recommending the game to anyone.

And everyone knows what problems there are with the game because there have been non-stop complaints on the forums since leagues.

I’m right there with you.

I have always kept my cool in games.. With GW2 PvP it’s been a very difficult to do that. I’ve had what was my favorite PC gaming experience completely destroyed. Got so angry I left the guild I was in. Essentially quit the game and returned to solo queue very casually only to deal with fits of rage. Will get 3-4 games of good teams, competent players then end up one pip away with some horrible configuration

E.g. three rangers, 1 warrior and me a dragon hunter, I asked if any of the rangers/druids would mind swapping to something else. They all refused, then they all refused to follow any strategy… I had the most points for our team and we still lost by over 150 points). When we got 60 points behind I pleaded with the team to follow a strategy (any strategy) but no one responded in team chat. Then at 120 points behind, again I tried. Nothing.. At that point I realized a few on my team were either trying to toss the match to lower MMR or were just horrible players.

We lost and I lost two pips. Then I knew MMR had determined we should have won that, at least one team member was trying to tank the match, no doubt. I cursed every member of the team. Then had to step away from the game. This happens to me every day.

We have every right to HATE ArenaNet for this meta and these poor decisions that got us here. Yes, the appropriate response is to just leave the game but when you love what the game was it’s very difficult to do that.

I’ve never experienced this level of rage in any game and that is not to ArenaNet’s credit. I really do hate the company for these changes. I do not believe it will ever get the priority it needs and I suspect I’ll keep going though this horrible cycle until I finally rage quit one last time and never sign back in.

I do acknowledge I’m the outlander, being one who loves the PvP side of the game much more than the PvE side, but I think ArenaNet should show more respect for this side of the game. I think the game studio should love it as much as we do.

If they did then they would be right there with us feeling the rage and hate and they would be more communicative. They have not been so I’m no longer hopeful.

DrMatt.9408:

Got into Ruby, played some games, took a break over holidays, now come back and noticed the quality of players is 10x worse, feels like I’m in amber again, morons making noob mistakes playing terribly despite running meta builds. It’s just horrible as solo-quer. Anyone find this? Might just wait on patch now.

This is because given enough time anyone can “grind” their way into Ruby. The 5-pip tier lock-in ensures this. Given enough matches played, eventually you’ll get your five pips for the lock…. Amber should be the only division where you can’t loose tiers. As I’ve said before, I suspect they designed it this way because they know most people coming to PvP in GW2 are predominately from PvE. PvE players tend to get irate when when they invest a lot of time and get nothing in return; less acceptable of a system that will stop progression once they reach their skill cap…. PvP players who take PvP seriously just want the game to rank them by their skill. They would see tier lock-in as a way of polluting/skewing the system, while those accustom to getting some form of progression (players who mostly PvE) see the tier lock-in as some indication of progression as a reward for all their time invested.

TL;DR Your perspective on not being able to loose tiers says a lot about the type of player you are. As designed, yes mid ranked season Ruby does become the new Amber because of the tier lock-in leading up to Ruby. Ruby becomes a true starting point that measures skill. Amber-Ruby is essentially a grind which can be achieved by using strategy on playing specific times, time composition, purposely dropping MMR at new tier, etc…

I don’t like the system, but as long as GW2 PvP remains imprisoned inside an MMO (it’s not likely to be freed anytime soon) it’s design will always cater to the PvE crowd who comes over to PvP when they get bored doing anything things. For those of us who really love the PvP side of the game, it’s sad… but it is what it is.

Terrorsquad.4802:

Mine would be:

- Monthly balance fixes (only takes a day to get used to changes)
- Build Templates
- Spectating other Ranked Games (Any chat locked and with delay of min 20s)
- Game Modes like 1v1/3v3 Arenas with Leaderboard/Ranking
- Diminishing Returns on CC’s

What’s yours?

1. Fix this ridiculous meta
2. Split solo and team queues
3. Split league divisions, seperate divisions for solo and team queues. Leave tier-locking in solo queue, get rid of tier locking for team queue
4. Allow us to queue outside Heart of the Mist
5. Add some fun things to do in Heart of the Mist while we wait

Terrorsquad.4802:

Mine is:

- Revenant (both DPS and Condition)
- Bunker Mesmer (too much pressure while sustaining 2v1 at the same time, even if the point isnt in its favor, it can keep 2-3 enemies busy. Turret Engi 3.0)
- DH (too many cc’s on trap)

he problem is beyond these four builds. The problem PvP is dominated by interrupt/power combos. The strategy is to make it so your opponent is stunned and helpless as their health goes from max to zero before they have any opportunity to pop any skills. The strategy comes down to being the first to get the interrupt chain going. It’s ridiculous. It’s not fun. It should have never made it out of beta testing.

But if I had to narrow the problem down to the most problematic build, it would be the four meta builds which are.

Herald – Condi Mallyx
Scrapper – Marauder Hammer
Tempest – Auramancer
Chronomancer – Alatcrity Bunker

The game would be better if every one of these builds were nerfed. To sort them by most OP to least

1. Tempest (this must be dealt with ASAP)
2. Herald (already toned down, still needs tweaking)
3. Chronomancer (already got toned down, still needs tweaking
4. Scrapper -could use a mild nerf. really not OP, difficulty to play balances it out.

Zerzi.8641:

The Title Says it All…

Spend about 30 minutes on this build in hot-join and decide for yourself. Enjoy
http://metabattle.com/wiki/Build:Herald_-_Condition_Mallyx

P.S. It takes some work to get the feel of it.

Awolf.9123:

I just lost two pips on a 4v5 because one of my team-mates went to character select when the match started and did not return. I don’t see how this can be considered a fair or sensible system.

Seems bugged following most recent patch. It did stack, so you would get 5 mins, 16 mins, 45 mins, 1.5 hours, etc… depending on the offense. It seems currently fixed so that regardless of how often an offense happens it’s limited to 16 minutes now and no longer increments.

IllegalEcchi.6320:

I was just wondering what classes right now have a place in the Meta. I’ve played for a while but I’m still kinda inexperienced. Please and Thank You

I would like to suggest you not concern yourself with meta this season. Just play unranked and play whatever works for you. Find the fun in a build and just go with it. Don’t take your losses too seriously. Play a lot of unranked.

I was playing with someone queuing ranked for the first time yesterday and we were doing a little prematch chat. The newcomers said “I hate the admit it but I don’t know what a pip is” and we were all like “I envy you for not knowing. You don’t want to know what it is” Then I was remembering how much fun PvP was before Leagues on this meta.

You can’t go back there, but you can avoid ranked altogether. It really is a mess right now and there’s a lot of negative energy there.

baylock.1703:

Vanilla medi guard and cele ele are still decent and probably mm necro also.

Against players skilled with the meta Elite Specs this is untrue. I got Champion Paragon and Dragon almost exclusively on Medi DPS Guard. It gets crushed against well played Elite Spec metas as does everything else.

Supreme.3164:

….

https://www.ancientwisdom.biz/user_files/pics/chill_b.jpg

A Chill Pill Dispenser

All this rage..c’mon guys is almost new year, Happy 2016!

http://cdn.meme.am/instances/400x/37554707.jpg

Just reduce your amount of time in game. Get out of the house, enjoy the winter and holidays and you’ll discover that…

Magicarp.5640:

Hi guys, recently I met this guy who is legendary saying that he got from ruby to legendary in a week soloq without ever partying with anyone , and he says hes a student so he doesn’t have a lot of time to play.

What I want to ask is:

1. Is it possible to reach legenday from ruby within a week by soloq?

2. How long does it take the average Esports player to reach legendary Soloq.

I just want to burst his bubble of lies if he’s lying.

Thanks all.

1. No

2. There are 168 hours in a week. With a solid team working your way though Ruby to Diamond is possible, but even with a very good win rate you’d need about 50 hours of play. Ruby to Legendary… a great deal of luck has to be your side. Two pro players attempting to exclusively solo queue as far as they could in EU are Lord Helseith and Letto. It took both of them many weeks to work from Amber to Diamond. I’m not even sure either of them have made it to Legendary though solo queue yet.

Regarding him being a student and “not having much time to play”, keep in mind time duration here is relative. Before he got to college he may have played every waking hour when not in school. 10-hours a day in game is nothing for some. You have “gamers” who really don’t do much else with their life. I have some strong opinions about that, but I’ll save them…. In college he may have had to tone it down to 5-6 hours a day, so relative to what he was playing he’s “not playing that much”. But compared to any productive adult or even teen with other activities in their life, he’s still playing a kitten of a lot!

One thing about gaming culture I’ve learned is that people never talk about how much time you spend in game. The answer is always “it didn’t take me that long”.