(edited by SamTheGuardian.2938)
PvP’ers got nothing but completely broken meta game this expansion. Can we atleast stop facing premades when queueing solo? Plz… Its getting ridicilous facing the same premade (5man) 3 times in a row when im solo.
Some thoughts-
- Premade’s will be all playing Ranked come early December when the new season starts. They will be facing each other competing for pips in guild league division rank, leaving those behind who only care about lone wolf pvp to PUG groups
- The meta is not broken. The meta has just changed to be (to no suprise) all Elite Specialization focused. Going by MetaBattle and looking at what the top ESL streamers are up to, if you intend to be competitive now you need 3-4 on your team running one or more of these builds
Dragonhunter – Meditrapper
Druid – Celestial Avatar
Herald – Power Shiro
Scrapper – Celestial Hammer
Tempest – Celestial Auramancer
D/D Ele? No longer meta… Burn Guardian or Meditation DPS? No longer meta. For better or worse the five builds above are your Conquest meta. Learn to play one of them or you’ll likely be pulling your team down. Just because you old build is no longer as effective as it was does not mean meta is “broken”, it’s just evolved for the elite specs.
Not sure where else to post this… I’m in a home guild for PvX already, but looking to join a small guild focused on sPvP. I want to take sPvP a bit more seriously than most in my home guild but I’m not able to commit hours daily to PvP (no interest in going pro with it). Trying to find a guild focused in that odd spot between all members doing sPvP 24/7 and the more causal players sPvP crowd where it’s hard to even get a group of 5 to commit to one or two times a week. It seems the sweet in-between is very hard to come by. I can and will commit to specific time slots each week, being on ts and working on team strategy.
If I sound like the type of player that would be a good fit for your team. Let me play a few matches if you like what I do, I’ll join you. Looking to find a group to take it as far as we can though Guild League Division ranks
Proficient with (scale 1-10)
Rank based on experience on class. I can focus on whatever team needs. These are the classes I have ready to go, *= main
Herald (Power Shiro) 8
*Dragon Hunter (Meditrapper) 8.5
Druid (Celestial Avatar) 5
Scapper (Celestial Hammer) 6.5
PM here or in-game if interested
I tried to get to some organised map and it seems like there is hardly any… In the end I managed to join one and it was just pseudo organised and failed in 5 minutes… I mean, I don’t mind hard content, I don’t mind if the whole map has to participate…but somehow this map got a bad reputation so there is hardly anyone who is still willing to try progressing it.
TD both the map and the meta are the worst of what HoT has to offer players. It’s a horrible map and a horrible meta event. If you suffer from geographical dyslexia (yes, it is a real thing for about 20% of the population) then you may even find the TD map unplayable as you’ll end up dead from being constantly mobbed as your mind tries to process your location and direction. I ended up going into map chat and offering gold to get runs around the map to specific story mission points, etc… That strategy worked pretty well for me and I only spent about 10g on it (roughly $1.00). Money well spent for a mad designed in a way I couldn’t play it. I do not have directional problems on ANY OTHER MAP in the game. Just TD and I refuse to go into it again except to grab specific hero challenge points.
How many hours have you played over the past 3 weeks?
I maxed all 9 professions in hero points for their elite specialization and am finding myself back on Skyrim. I thought the xpac was supposed to give us more to do, but after unlocking specs I’m dead bored.
-Dungeons are completely dead, pretty much removed from the game with the rewards nerf.
-Fractals gave us double the work and grind + mastery grind for less rewards. There are also NO NEW FRACTALS. Just the same old boring rotation with number tweaks and existing mistlocks buffed. Fractals were not expanded upon at all with the exception of a bleh legendary backpiece.
-World Meta events take HUGE amounts of time (2 hr+ each meta), fail regularly, and the game spawns dead maps faster than then the U.S. Treasury prints money. Either I never have time to finish an event from 1 hour of map hopping to find an organized one, or spend 40mins before realizing there is no hope at all that the map is even going to make it to the end phase. Rewards like the bladed armor chest are RNG at the end, so you can go through it all and get nothing.
-General focus on world events creates this feeling that I don’t have control over my own progression, that I’m sitting here waiting on 200 people on a map to do their stuff right so that I can get anywhere. As player, I generally don’t feel important anymore. Getting anything in this game seems to be just sheer luck. Whether is getting a precursor drop or getting into a good map. There is no player control over their growth at all.
-Rewards in general suck and seem to become less and less with each update instead of more. Cost of ascended gear has skyrocketed to the point of making gear for new characters an impossibility. If you weren’t and early bird that got your crap early, your pretty much screwed. Don’t even think about trying to make celestial gear… if your a ele then your double screwed.
-EVERYTHING is expensive. Whenever I’m standing in front of the TP, I feel like I’m living in the Great Depression and standing in a breadline with a 20$ just to buy one loaf (a.k.a one single strength or scholar rune).
-The expansion is pretty small, I blew through the story in less than an hour and don’t really feel compelled to play through it again just to get slammed with bugs from the last boss. The quality of the storytelling was very low as well.
-From the master system to the above problem, to the length, the game DEMANDS MUCH but RETURNS LITTLE. I feel like my time playing is wasted.
It’s November 15th. The game released Oct 23rd. The expansion has been out 24 days. Considering that, here are some thoughts:
- On a single character, the instanced story content, plus map meta events combined are 20-25 hours of play.
- Map completion for each character will be another 3-5 hours per map (12-20 hours for all maps total depending on many things)
You claim to have got unlock on 9 characters, so even if you had map competition of core game on all characters (don’t lie and claim you did) you have likely spent 100+ hours in HoT up this point. Consider what all they did give you
- Unique maps like nothing we’ve seen before in the game
- Adventures
- New play mechanics for gliding, jumping, etc… though masteries
- New profession
- New elite specializations
- Redesigned meta mechanics that give the entire map purpose and make it feel like a destination.
- Revamped story delivery
- New WvW map
- New sPvP game play format (Stronghold)
HoT brings so much that feels like a new game. It’s a phenominal expansion and we’re not even done yet. Still coming.
- Raids
- Continuation fo Living World
- New legendaries
- sPvP Leagues
I’d say you got your money’s worth and if you really want to be in game that much instead of I don’t know living life, then Skyrim, the new Fallout game… there are plenty of options. It sounds like you’re upset about lack of explorable dungeons, but your repeatable content is coming though raids. ArenaNet has said from the beginning they want you to go play other games as well.
Elite Specialization Weapon and Armor Skins
in Guild Wars 2: Heart of Thorns
Posted by: SamTheGuardian.2938
So, i have something that has been irritating me since the start of the expansion. and i was wondering if other people felt the same way about it, because i have tried to ignore it or just forget about it, but i can’t seem to do that, and that is the fact that any class that can wield the same weapon type or use the same armor tier/type as the elite specializations can also use the skins you unlocked on the account for that elite specialization, it really feels like the skins that are supposed to feel like that they belong to certain elite specializations, seem somewhat worthless, well not worthless but they don’t feel as special. when you see for example revenants and elementalists or something running around using the Bo staff skin which is something for the daredevil, same goes for the chronomancer shield and heralds, or reapers great sword etc. am not saying i don’t understand why people use them like that in the first place, but it just really irritates me and i can’t get over it xD. does anyone think about it the same way or am i the only one that sees it this way?
Also feel they should have locked these skins to the Elite Specialization classes.
I spent 4 hours trying to complete this fight in a group and each time something new happened and bugged out the boss, i never post on this forum but i had to comment and say how ridiculously bad and buggy this last boss is, anet failed a second time .
Sorry to hear this happened to you. I guess I was one of the lucky ones. Finished both final story chapter Hearts & Minds as well as final battle in Dragon Stand meta. Meta was done in about an hour and final story we knocked out in about 40 minutes. No one in our team bugged out.
I feel sympathy towards your experience (though the comment insinuating that I finally get to have the experience of not knowing what to do is incorrect considering I’ve played since launch and have been an MMO player for the better part of a decade).
If you’ve got the map figured out, have you considered organizing it yourself? In your own words, everyone else is waiting on someone else to organize so (in the immortal words of Will I. Am) be the change you want to see.
If you managed to succeed after coming back to it, I fail to understand the point of your complaints at all because you obviously followed a near-exact line of actions to what I did and then won/got your loot.
One major difference between our experiences is that I never tried and failed. You did. I tried only when I had the information I knew was out there to help greatly increase probability of success. Yes, your past experience in MMOs helped you I’m sure, but you made it sound as if you got to experience Dragon Stand with a group still trying to figure the map out. I would guess you finished it within the first 2 weeks of launch which would have given you a distinct experience. Now that information is known about game bugs and overall how to organize, it makes sense going into a map to try and get as much spoiler free information as possible about the mechanics and overall understand how you can best help yourself and help those who’ve done it time and time again to achieve their goal of a successful meta. Trying to get this information before the event starts and asking for people to PM you just a few answers is very reasonable. The communities I encountered were rude and offered zero help though map chat. Considering some of the rude comments I believe they understood but did not see any value in sharing.
Once I got the information I needed I returned, tried and succeeded. Prior to this I NEVER engaged in the events on the map. I was simply in map trying to get answer prior to meta reset. Once I had the information, I was able to be of support to the team and better equipet with the information given.
You got the experience of trying, failing and finally succeeding which is great when you’re one of the first groups to go for it. But almost a month has past and now the event is well known by many. People aren’t figuring it out on their own anymore. You either get in with a map that knows what’s going on or you get left behind on an empty map and get to wait till next time. this is important because it’s a pivotal part of the current experience for someone. It is very different than what you encountered and this experience highlights and underlines an important failure in the design. A failure that those who “ran with the launch herd/swarm” were immune to dealing with. It’s that ugly transition period between the meta zerg norm and a big chuck of the population being new to the meta events. Frankly, it’s just a misrible time to try and engage these events because of this mix of “have done it a zillion times l already” hard cores and beginners.
It’s very unimaginative to think the developer did all they could with this. I can think of a few things they could have done in anticipation and as you pointed out they even had patterns with events like Teq as reference for these phases. Dragon Stand is much more important the Teq because it’s the final meta in HoT and it contributes to the narrative for the HoT story. It should have improved upon the initial failures of Teq not repeated them.
The bottom line is that your experience with the event was very different than mine as you had a group eager to figure it out and work together to accomplish that. Again, once mechanics are out of the box (so to speak) the dynamics change. Anyone going in now is going to have several who know the event who have the burden of getting the other groups on the map to perform what’s needed to be success. This isn’t subjective. It’s the reality of things today.
Remember when Teq was first updated? Remember how long it took people to kill him, but now people just show up and effectively just zerg it down? This content has been out two weeks. If you know how to do it, try explaining it to everyone else to spread the knowledge rather than complaining about how everyone else was unhelpful
Some hold this knowledge, some do not. The biggest tip I could give anyone doing Dragon Stand is to get on a well populated server right at the event start, expect zero help from map chat (expect even the basic questions like “when will the meta reset”) to be ignored or met with scalding sarcasm. Have squad commanders with tags up and let people know if they choose to spec as dedicated or heavy focus healer it’s ok. In fact it’s good to have at least two in each group. Once the event starts it’s probably too late to taxi in. Do so 10-15 minutes before start to be safe. The ones doing this are organized and will win the event as it’s not really that hard with must minor prep.
Also, to your original point, you could have made a thread either explaining the meta event or asking someone else to but instead you chose to complain about Anet (who is not responsible for how their players behave) so my empathy is not very high
ANet could have done more. You disagree, I know. I believe your wrong. Here are my specific grievances with ANet regarding Dragon Stand
- Content is designed for strategic play yet it is “open world”. Developer should have known this would lead to servers being full and users getting locked out due to crashes, unexpected shut-downs etc. Most of these problems would go away if the content were instanced and scaled down a bit for three groups of 10. A queue system could be implemented similar to how sPvP matches are queued up for and instances could be spawned all the time. This would keep things going and allowing players to re-enter instance on dc, etc… would be solved. Most of the mechanics needed already exist in game, regardless an queued instance approach would have vastly improved the experience and problem mitigated memory crashes and all other complaints (I’m not the only one, that much is clear)
- While implementing a queued instance would have been idea, another alternative would be what I already suggested. For maps that have clearly missed the event have it fail early and have an alternative event chain occur for low populated maps with a boss of some sort at the end. The alternative event chain should give players incentive to be there just not as rewarding as the primary meta. Also have some visual queues/dialogs so the player understands clearly that they ended up on a map primary event chain has failed.
Without an alternative event chain here is what’s happening. A player “misses the boat” so to speak on getting in at beginning of reset and they are left in a low populated Dragon Stand map instance full of mobs they can’t solo and nothing else really going on save for a few story instance markers and hero challenges. This is not good design. I won’t agree that it is.
(edited by SamTheGuardian.2938)
The game developer does NOT have a responsibility to hold your hand and explain every little thing. If you seriously expect to be able to know everything about what to do the moment you walk into a map then that’s a pretty boring game.
I agree they should not “hold your hand on everything”. As the name implies Dragon’s Stand’s purpose is the meta event so it’s a little different than the other maps. Asking that the objectives of the final map be more clear and to make more effort for when players are locked out or booted near the end (as many are experiencing) is not hand holding.
First time I walked into Dragon Stand I walked forward until I found some mobs while chatting with people in map chat. We got crushed by a legendary mob and then wiped by the dragon, then we got back up, compared notes, and proceeded to complete all the events up to the Dragon’s Mouth before we couldn’t figure out what to do there. Then we wiped, then we compared notes again, and then the next day we beat it.
Ah, the joys of being one of the first to tackle new content in a game. I had that experience with much of the GW2 core game content. Congrats on having that opportunity. But let’s talk about the experience as it is today Nov 13th 2015. Yeah, so no one’s comparing notes anymore. No one in map chat is even remotely nice or communicative unless you say something like “I’m just hear taking up a spot, would love to be of use if someone explained what we’re trying to do”. Fortunately I taxied into a map where I knew we knew there would be competent squad commanders (this only after getting some information from guildies).
In map chat I encounter rude and impatient players in map chat in Dragon Stand even 10 minutes before it started. No one would even hold a private dialog with me about it. That’s the state of things.
Learn by playing, and if that’s too hard for you go to Queensdale and do the event chains there because if Dragon’s Stand is too hard to understand then I have nothing but pity for you.
Actually, finished on first try and I only went down a few times. This after getting a couple of things I was asking for BUT GETTING ZERO HELP WITH on map chat (tried this on three instances which is why I’m making broad statements about the community in general, this was not isolated it’s the norm). 1.) General idea of how the event starts 2) A good server to come into the event with- beginning of the event on a server where I knew we had a few competent squad leaders and I knew we had filled up server. 3.) Understood a general idea of how the event works.
If you still can’t figure something out, ask people in map chat. There’s plenty of people who have figured out how to make things work and are more than happy to tell you.
Yes, rude little kittens they are. Probably children so it’s all forgiven.
… I find it shocking that you can’t figure out what to do.
It’s more concern about crashing, hearing rumors of how important it is to be on a good server at the beginning of the event, etc… and wanting to make sure I had those things taken care of. If you think I’m stating that I can’t follow the event task you are misunderstanding. I KNOW HOW TO DO THAT or I wouldn’t have made it this far. That’s obvious Captain, what I was looking for was information to make sure I wasn’t wasting my time. Again, you experienced it at a time when people were comparing notes and figuring out the puzzle. We are way past that now. Server populations are mixed with people who have done it a dozen times and first timers. Getting on a server with a good group is key. I was looking for information on how to do that and no one was interested in helping. In spite of the map chat community a few guildies came though with the information needed.
As a result of my efforts to get things lined up before just “going for it” blindly, I got with a strong group we finished all events in the meta with about 30 minutes to spare and got crazy loot.
Two things. 1.) I think you and I value our time differently. 2.) You are not considering the difference in experience someone has with this meta now vs when your group “figured it out early” (perhaps Google “empathy”). You keep doing it your way and I’ll keep doing it mine. The community in this game could be much more resourceful to one another or at least not rude.
(edited by SamTheGuardian.2938)
To be fair, you spent the first 5 minutes complaining in map chat and mis-understanding how megaservers worked. If you want to do the event, you need to politely discuss the best way to get into a good run with people who have the knowledge. You can’t expect to get into a successful Dragon Stand run any more than you could expect to turn up to Teq exactly when he spawns and automatically be in a good map.
So… You believe a player coming into the Dragon Stand map for the first time (as I was this morning) should know all this?!? I’m assuming you were the person who was the only other person on the map instance I landed in after getting booted from the first map for no reason (bug). On the first map instance I was in I was told 10 minutes in advance that the event was about to start. I DID ask the community for help and was hanging out. I ask “how does this work” and was told “just wait and you’ll see”. Me “do I need to be in party”. Map chat community “No, you’re good”.
The game developer has a responsibility to inform the player what is going on. The community does not hold this responsibility. Regardless, both failed in this case. As once booted I returned to an instance only to find myself completely alone, only save for you (one person who was not doing the meta event). Explain how this is good design?
I think by raising that question (“is this good design”) the community has actually given ArenaNet motivation to make a lot of positive change in the game.
You can say “you should research the event in forums or elsewhere on the internet before trying it” and you’re never going to get me to agree to that, because it’s just WRONG. That should not be a requirement.
I knew about what time the reset would happen and that’s all I wanted to know. I tried to get on-line early for this event and still was locked out less five minutes after reset. Do you think that’s acceptable? And what to do in an instance that has no population? Story chapter content I guess, but nor much else because you’re all alone and obviously your instance will not be able to complete the meta event even though it is active on the map you’re on.
A better design would at the very least provide more cues to the user who finds themselves locked out a instance what’s happened and would also kill the meta event on the less populated maps and offer alternative dynamic events. That way if you miss maps where the meta is occurring at least you can do something on the Dragon Stand map instead of run around in a sad lonely instance imaging what things would be like if you had a group big enough to do it.
Having not completed it, it’s hard to make recommendations but it seems the DS meta would be be served as a 10 man instance using the new squad interface instead of being a map meta that we have to wait for a reset on otherwise be completely locked out of. Being an instance would also assist those getting booted late in the game (at least I was kicked out early).
As implemented it seems like a really rotten design.
(edited by SamTheGuardian.2938)
Can’t get into a map… Joined multiple parties though LFG… No luck… You do realize this is rage inducing right, ArenaNet? Do you care!?!?! Are you listening…
You need to find a decent guild, there’s no reason why you should have to pay people gold to navigate a frigging map. I my self just joined a really decent guild with helpful casual/ hardcore players (meaning folks that play a lot but don’t min max like DnT). Feel free to look me up and I’ll have our GM Vayne throw you an invite, you might be familiar with with him he’s got quite the forum presence; he’s active during off ours as am I (though I’m just as much of a HoT noob as you are). Look we can’t expect ANet to fix any problems over night, they’ve got a work force of 300, but our guild likes to find solutions to work around those problems so look us up Wardens of Destiny ( I hope I know the abreviation is WoD).
I’m in a fantastic guild and we help each other all the time, but not for every task. Do you think people want to break away from what they are doing to loose 20-30 minutes to help me run around an empty map only for us to get potentially mobbed in the process? Don’t you think it’s worth compensating someone? Party of 3 is a good number for this map, 2 can do it but you may have to respawn a few times which can cost you 5-10 minutes depending on how far out your going, if one of you falls, etc… It’s basic economics. The game design doesn’t do enough to give guidies incentive. There isn’t much reward in it. If your guild is full a members willing to provide immediate help for anyone asking for it (in many cases for me, even waiting 10-20 minutes for a guild member to finish something they are on is too long) so it’s just a matter of how I value my time in game and when that treshold is crossed paying gold to get help makes the most sense. It’s an enabler. It allows me to create the needed incentive to compensate for the poor game design.
How quickly do you think I get help when I offer gold? IMMEDIATELY. Zero wait and they are always grateful.
It’s perfect really and it does not go against ArenaNet’s policy. Now if you have a guild full of guildies who just love to do things for others without needing strong incentive and they respond almost immediately to request to “help me get from waypoint X in tabled depths to story marker y” then please in game send me a guild invite and a short message in game. I’d like to see this guild in action. Of course they don’t really exist because time is a commodity, even for a teenager who loves GW2. You don’t get something for free. Good game design would give incentive, but HoT does not.
Trying to get map completion on Tangled Depths and Dragon Stand? Good luck to you! I’ve decided that I simply don’t have the time to care about PvE enough to endure the kitten one must go though with HoT now that the game is in that awkward state of flux between the initial launch herd keeping the maps overflowing to the eerie, empty state they are in today before the lower population tuning has been completed. Simply put, it’s a horrible time to be playing the expansion right now.
I ended up spending about 50 gold just to get other players to assist me in Auric Basin and Tangled Depths to get what I needed from these maps. Had I not offered money and had to wait on other players or guildies objectives to align with mine what took ~4 hours would have taken many days. As an adult with time constraints I also understand time constraints of others. Every person is and has a right to be selective with how they spend their time in game. In an idea world (or a better game design perhaps) players would have very strong built in incentives to help other players, but that is not what’s happening so the answer is to quit playing the game, wait awhile for ANet to take (possible) action or to create your own incentives and offer compensation to players. This works.
I have to distinguish the things I find fun and what aspects I find a boring chore. If there is a way to eliminate the boring chores then that’s worth the investment to me. I decided it was worth dropping $10 USD in gems to gold to set aside for players who would help me get around the maps. Also as someone who suffers from geographical dyslexia, I would struggle with Tangled Depths even if the zone were full (about 20% suffer from this condition) With it empty I find myself aggroing mops, often dead then having to respawned at distant waypoints. It’s in a horrible state right now!
But when you offer to pay people, what you’ll find is people often offer to help for free. Of you should still pay them because ArenaNet has given them next to no incentive to assist (which is why they all ignored you in map and guild chat until you offered gold).
(edited by SamTheGuardian.2938)
Skyhammer is about position awareness.
If I am bumped or feared out of a platform, it is because I’ve let myself in the position to being feared off or bumped.I don’t like this map because so many people have no clue about what to do with it, but I do like how strategic positionning is on it and how it makes environmental awareness a very important part of gameplay.
For PvP to eSport map consistency is not just important, but is perhaps the MOST important element. The map mechanics that lead to defeat or win define the game being played. Imagine the game of Football or Baseball. Imagine if all pro fields/stadiums were similar except this one field had a mechanic where the audience could participate by strategically tossing Nerf footballs out on the field to help the team they were rooting for!!! As a spectator you may be thinking “that would be awesome” but the atheletes taking the game seriously it would be ridiculous, because a new mechanic was introduced that changed the core game for which the athletes trained for. Skyhammer is essentially that field with nerf footballs being thrown from the audience at the players. The analogy isn’t 1:1 but the idea is the same. Skyhammer introduces many mechanics not found on other maps. This is why beyond question, beyond subjectivity Skyhammer as a conquest map IS a horrible map. That is not an opinion. It’s something you can prove based on game design theory.
I believe those developing it were not considering eSports at all, ultimately they weren’t taking the pvp side of GW2 very seriously and just wanted to add a new map that would be a lot different.
Keep in mind, Skyhammer is classified as a conquest map yet instead of just employing a secondary mechanic as all other maps do (for Skyhammer the secondary is the canon) Skyhammer also imposes additional mechanics of potential knock downs leading to death/player scores, hydro-lifts and trap doors.
If consistency among maps is critical to fair play where skill given game rules is the measure of victory, Skyhammer sticks out like a swore thumb because of it’s cumbersome secondary mechanics that leave more to chance that to skill. It manyu scenarios it is possible to hit a player with a unblock able knock down that will lead to their death. The additional play mechanics of Skyhammer make it unique from the other conquest and that is why it will never be in ranked rotation, because people who take the game even simi-serious as eSport understand map consistency is critical to fair play. On skyhammer the wins are cheap and the losses ultimately just a waste of time. If you just love Skyhammer for the fun of it’s uniqueness, I can accept that but understand the reasons you love it are the reasons those who take the pvp side seriously hate it because they understand it’s deviation and busy mechanics makes it so it’s almost it’s own game pay that should hold a new name.
If we had 4-5 other maps with the same busy mechanics (hydro-lifts, trap doors, possibility of knock down to death) then I wouldn’t call out Skyhammer as being bad. It would just be grouped with other like-maps and it could be called something other than Conquest (Conquest-Plus) or some other name. Then we can spec our builds accordingly, etc… Kind of like we do Stronghold and did for Courtyard, bu as it stands Skyhammer is a horrible map because of it’s inconsistency.
(edited by SamTheGuardian.2938)
isn’t super hard to navigate unless you have issues with spacial awareness.
Yep, they made a map that roughly 20% of the population will struggle with to the point of near insanity. Good job ANet. After all it is just 20%
https://dyslexiavictoria.wordpress.com/2010/05/09/dyslexia-and-spatial-awareness/
https://www.dosomething.org/facts/11-facts-about-dyslexia
Make traps with no cooldown and unblockable
^^^ Would be an awesome thing for ANet to do as an April fools joke.
Lots of talk about balance following HoT. Here’s my take on it-
Balance for eSport comes down to balance in classes and balance in environments/arenas. GW2 actually does both quite well. Balance for arenas comes from consistency. Minor variations map to map are allowed, but overall the core mechanics should be identical and VERY CONSISTENT between maps. The map play mechanics define the game being played for which the team’s collective skill is being leveled for the win or loss. Consistent maps are probably the most important aspect of good esport.Class balance comes from the developer though nerfs and buffs, but also from the community though meta builds. If you choose to run an inferior Guardian build that you slapped together yourself against a team with a Dragon Hunter that owns you then you are the problem, the balance of the game isn’t. Consider that: You had access to the current meta, you have access to all weapon, armor mods and max stats. Not playing a meta build and screaming things are not balanced is ridiculous. It would be like trying to play basketball in flip-flop shoes and complaining because you have to wear sneakers.
I think we find a great deal of balance in GW2 PvP though meta and ANet has been good in the past with keeping the unbalanced maps out of Tournament rotation. Overall I don’t have a lot of complaints.
I expect nothing less from a guardian. You guys are the golden boys! OF COURSE you’re going to say balance is ok, you’re benefiting from it!
…but it’s not…
Balance is atrocious. Warriors and thieves got NOTHING this expansion.
This comment actually made me laugh only because it is true. I do think Guardian’s have long been ArenaNet’s secret (or perhaps not so secret) favorite class. From the build up of “blue mace lady” (those around before 2012 anticipating this game know what I’m talking about) to now, Guardian seems to embody the jack-of-all-trades spirit better than the rest.
I agree Warriors deserved something better than Berserker (even the name is more generic than Dragon Hunter), but Daredevil actually isn’t bad. PS My core game main was a Guardian and I seldom play on him anymore. Most of time in PvP since HoT has been on a Herald or most recently Scrapper. The DH meta trapper can work great but it’s not really OP. It depends what it’s going up against. Herald (Power Shiro) is probably the one that’s going to get the biggest nerf.
Today it just struck me, I’m no longer having fun in GW2. I have no desire to log on and play. And thats entirely from the TD map.
I just want the meta to get my mistward headpiece, and it seams such a simple goal, but night after night, I spend hours trying to get it done, organising maps etc, and it fails each time, sometimes close, sometimes not.
But this is more effort than a raiding guild….and its just not fun.
I’ll give it a few days, see if I summon any enthusiasm, but I really hope anet sort this kitten out.
I’m rapidly getting to this point too, they locked this item behind a heavily broken meta that no one attends to, I don’t have time to sit on the same map for 6 hours HOPING the GW2 community will zone in and organize the map, and pugs will never cut this, whats even more depressing is ANETS complete lack of silence on the issue, regardless of the many topics that are appearing about this map,
Those who are saying you should have been there the first week, well not everyone wanted to burn threw all the content in the first week, why should we be forced to push threw the game so fast just to get an achievement/item,
Then we have those who say look how long it took teq to be beaten bla bla, this is completely different, this broken Meta spawns every 2 hours, its also competing with other very very popular metas at the same time, be it SW, VB, AB, DS, no one in there right mind would go and do a broken meta event with a massive failure rate for no rewards when they can go to one of the others and succeed and get rewarded,
I now feel Anet will just ignore and bury this problem, as they have changed the focus to raids now, so they have no incentive to even look at the TD map, there has not been 1 RED tag reply to any of the multiple topics on this issue.
For those who didn’t see it, here is another topic on the problem.
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/hot/TD-Meta-is-anyone-still-trying/first#post5745703
Anyone saying “you should have been there the first week” is an idiot. Games should not be designed only to accommodate the launch herd. The game studio must account for the 60-80% drop in play population that will occur 1-2 weeks post launch. Gamer patterns are predictable. Doesn’t matter which game it is, you always have the herd that had decided to put their out of game life on hold and devote a week to running with the launch herd. Storming mindlessly though all the new content as fast as possible to get to the end and be done with it (I was one of these people before I got a life, decided to manage my time better and put my out of game relationships first). Any MMO has to be designed to account for the huge dip in population once the launch herd makes it though.
The game is not designed for the low populations currently on them. Meta maps should not only complete successfully a few times a day! Players should be able to move around a map to get to their next story chapter, way point, etc… without having to prod people or pay people to join them. Same with hero challenges. As it’s designed other players have zero incentive to put aside what they are doing and go loose 30 minutes – 2 hours of their life running though the jungle with one other person only to deal with the same frustrations all over again.
Tangled Depths is a beautiful map. If they doubled the # of way points, jumping mushrooms, etc.. it would become more tolerable. They also need to add NPCs that spawn to help players with the meta when the server population is low.
What really angers me about all this is that the next map Dragon’s Stand is suppose to have one of the most amazing meta events in the game. I can only imagine that is no longer happening either. Meaning, I will never get to have one of the best experiences in GW2 because I refused to 1.) put my life on hold launch week 2.) join the mad rush though all the content (disrespecting the game along the way).
You CAN NOT blame the community either. It’s the responsibility of the game studio to make sure the content is viable, it’s their responsibility to put the incentives in for players to return to these very challenging and often frustrating zones to help others, it’s their responsibility to give those incentives and perhaps even do a better job time gating to force the launch herd to stick around longer in a way that does not punish the casuals.
The truth is developing a solid MMO that can endure these things takes exceptionally bright people who are very good at what they do. I had thought Heart of Thorns was built by such a group but the situation is Tangled Depth right now is unacceptable. It’s a horrible experience in a game less than a month old. Think about that.
Ended up paying about 20g this morning just to avoid hours of more frustration. Our minds don’t all process information the same way. For some of us these jungle maze maps are fun, but very challenging. When you add in impassable mobs we fall into and target location markers (green stars) that do not have depth/z-location well defined, you remove all the fun and just induce rage. This is horrible design. The maps themselves are phenomenally good, it’s the other teams that I feel dropped the ball.
Paid 20g for what?
Two story missions. Well honestly, not EVEN the missions, but just location runs though the jungle to get to target location to invoke instance. If that sounds insane to you here is my rational. It’s actually simple economic principles
Running though jungle solo I’m being forced into the same traps and mobs for hours. By paying others a nominal amount I’m able to greatly reduce this to about 20 minutes at the cost of $1.80 (1g = $0.09 in gems according to gw2spidy). My incentives to do this. If this content were fun to me or a core part of the play experience I wouldn’t do it, but it isn’t. I’m paying other players to help over come the rotten design to get to the good stuff.
It’s good for me because it
- Eliminates potentially hours of repetitive, frustrating content I’m having to endure in the Tangled Depps due to low population. Own a business so every minute counts. Why spend 3 hours in game trying to push though what amounts to broken, frustrating content? It’s actually much more cost effective for me to spend $1.80 even up to perhaps $10 per hour if it’s gong to help me get rid of a time sink.
- This is a time sink we are dealing with. I pay people to get me though the aspects of game play that are time sinks to me. Aspects that I don’t find the fun in that are more annoying than challenging. Instead of “rage quitting” I’d rather pay real money in gems to gold to other players to get me though the unpleasantness and onto the fun and challenging aspects. It enables us to give no respect to the parts of the game that are broken and to keep moving (the meta events which are part of the story delivery are alive and well and need no one to be paid in order to enjoy and progress).
This is about paying for progression and I believe this is the new norm. Similar to how pay for runs became a thing in GW1. It is essentially the same thing.
I don’t have to do this. I’m secure with my skill at the game, I don’t need any validation that I can get though the ridiculous maps (which would be fun if mobs didn’t force me to start over at a way point 20 minutes away from target) and I care zero about what the player taking the money thinks of my skill. I realize most younger people don’t value time the same way I do and some may even have a prestige prob;em with asking for this sort of help or may even judge me for it (the later I find especially amusing).
Pretty much any system can be manipulated to server your needs on your terms. The trick is to find out how to do that within the confines of the law that governs the system. In this case, the “law that governs” would be ArenaNet policy and they don’t have a problem with it.
…
I agree with you there. I just don’t agree with the claim that you can’t get through the story by yourself. I’m not that good of a player either honestly, I’m somewhat casual and don’t work with any guild.
You misunderstand. I don’t NEED anyone help on the missions themselves. However, I do enjoy the company of playing the narrative content with others. Why? Because non-hardcore small team instanced content is just a lot of fun. In GW2 core game we had story mode dungeons for this and there is no counterpart in GW2 HoT so I like to team up for the story missions but certainly do not need to as I’ve done every one of them solo. I don’t need to do them all solo and scream to the world “look you can solo them”. After all they are “Story missions” not “personal story missions” this go round.
If you played your way though launch week you got a very different experience. You could team up easily with someone running the same story mission because you both needed it and had incentive to do it together. There are very few incentives for players to help others right now in the game and the maps are sparing populated. Those two things are currently ruing the experience in Tangled Depths. I don’t know about the other maps. This is entirely ArenaNet’s fault. They should have anticipated the drop. They could have looked at data from any MMO launch, it’s always like this. They did not. They decided to play it reactively so now we have to wait to see what they are going to do.
In the meantime I will pay people to run me though the jungle to avoid aggoing mobs as a circle around looking for little gren star markers.
Okay, no offense but unless I’m misinterpreting the OP’s post it is absolutely ludicrous. Do you seriously believe that it is good design to be able to say it’s the PLAYERS fault for getting stomped just because they didn’t play the one overpowered meta build? I mean really? In this case what is the point of build diversity? Just take away traits, runes, sigils, ect. and make everyone have to play the meta build for their class. Honestly the game would probably be a lot better this way considering how awful Anet is at balance.
I agree that it’s stupid for someone to complain if they have a kittened build. They should be punished for being dumb. But when you literally have no options if you want to be competitive but to play one single build…that’s just absurdly bad design. Half the weapons, traits, and utilities in the game are utter garbage. Maybe someday there will be a real choice between builds…someday…
No, no, no. I want to be clear in my perspective. You still may disagree, but you do misunderstand. I strongly feel grossly over powered builds have to be balanced, but we prob disagree on the definition of what is OP in Nov 2015. Having a handful of meta builds is very common. I don’t see any grossly over powered builds in GW2 currently just a new crop of Elite Specialization metas that dominate the game. Is that really any surprise? Just because your old core game team build is no longer viable does not necessary mean the new builds are OP. Plenty of teams are successfully mixing old with new. You just can no longer expect your pre HoT team build to cut it. It just means there is now a collection of new builds you’ll have to run to be competitive (or at least have a few team members running them). This is normal.
Look at the two leading Pro teams (Orange Logo, Abjured) watch their final match for the world cup. What do we see? Meta builds or slight variants (the winning team ran two D/D Eles before the nerf, both teams had a meta thief) Having an optimal configuration for pvp for specific types of class play is an excellent thing for PvP for the same reason shoulder pads and helmets are good for the NFL. It’s just the tools of the trade the focus is on your skill with the strategy shifted away from build config (this isn’t GW1, this isn’t “build wars” anymore). It’s not about who strategically put together the best built, it’s who is most effective with the meta (builds that have risen up though natrual selection). The developer made it clear they wanted to move away from the strategy being in a complex skill system.. I loved GW1 and it’s focus on build strategy, but GW2 does not work the same way for PvP. The focus is not there and I’m glad it is’t.
Today’s meta is tomorrow’s nerf. The only thing that’s changed is you had to buy HoT to play this time around.
(edited by SamTheGuardian.2938)
“seriously who want to practice unranked”.
That is your problem. If you want serious practice, you set up scrims or pick up games in a private server with like minded individuals who will help you learn and improve. Unranked should not be a real source of practice for a pro leageue.
On a side note: yes please remove Skyhammer and Spirit Watch.
You are assuming all Amateur players should be grouped together and Pro should be it’s own thing This is a problem with PvP in this game. It’s a problem the devs are addressing with Leagues so finally there will be a progression.
Truthfully Pro is for a very few elites, non pre-made amateur is a big chunk but many want the sweet spot in between, pre-made groups that take it seriously enough but due to life commitments don’t have time to take things pro. League divisions in combination with more private “no-pro” tournaments will continue to solidify this category of play. This is why it’s important they be selected as optional maps for queuing. If you think about it, I’m asking them to add a feature (checkbox to opt in for non-ranked maps). It seems people will argue over anything.
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My only real compliant is that I think those taking it seriously who want to practice unranked should not be forced to deal with maps that out unbalanced/outside tournament rotation EVER. It’s a simple checkbox, we know they can do it. They did it for Stronghold.
Lots of talk about balance following HoT. Here’s my take on it-
Balance for eSport comes down to balance in classes and balance in environments/arenas. GW2 actually does both quite well. Balance for arenas comes from consistency. Minor variations map to map are allowed, but overall the core mechanics should be identical and VERY CONSISTENT between maps. The map play mechanics define the game being played for which the team’s collective skill is being leveled for the win or loss. Consistent maps are probably the most important aspect of good esport.
Class balance comes from the developer though nerfs and buffs, but also from the community though meta builds. If you choose to run an inferior Guardian build that you slapped together yourself against a team with a Dragon Hunter that owns you then you are the problem, the balance of the game isn’t. Consider that: You had access to the current meta, you have access to all weapon, armor mods and max stats. Not playing a meta build and screaming things are not balanced is ridiculous. It would be like trying to play basketball in flip-flop shoes and complaining because you have to wear sneakers.
I think we find a great deal of balance in GW2 PvP though meta and ANet has been good in the past with keeping the unbalanced maps out of Tournament rotation. Overall I don’t have a lot of complaints.
Ended up paying about 20g this morning just to avoid hours of more frustration. Our minds don’t all process information the same way. For some of us these jungle maze maps are fun, but very challenging. When you add in impassable mobs we fall into and target location markers (green stars) that do not have depth/z-location well defined, you remove all the fun and just induce rage. This is horrible design. The maps themselves are phenomenally good, it’s the other teams that I feel dropped the ball.
Paid 20g for what?
Two story missions. Well honestly, not EVEN the missions, but just location runs though the jungle to get to target location to invoke instance. If that sounds insane to you here is my rational. It’s actually simple economic principles
Running though jungle solo I’m being forced into the same traps and mobs for hours. By paying others a nominal amount I’m able to greatly reduce this to about 20 minutes at the cost of $1.80 (1g = $0.09 in gems according to gw2spidy). My incentives to do this. If this content were fun to me or a core part of the play experience I wouldn’t do it, but it isn’t. I’m paying other players to help over come the rotten design to get to the good stuff.
It’s good for me because it
- Eliminates potentially hours of repetitive, frustrating content I’m having to endure in the Tangled Depps due to low population. Own a business so every minute counts. Why spend 3 hours in game trying to push though what amounts to broken, frustrating content? It’s actually much more cost effective for me to spend $1.80 even up to perhaps $10 per hour if it’s gong to help me get rid of a time sink.
- This is a time sink we are dealing with. I pay people to get me though the aspects of game play that are time sinks to me. Aspects that I don’t find the fun in that are more annoying than challenging. Instead of “rage quitting” I’d rather pay real money in gems to gold to other players to get me though the unpleasantness and onto the fun and challenging aspects. It enables us to give no respect to the parts of the game that are broken and to keep moving (the meta events which are part of the story delivery are alive and well and need no one to be paid in order to enjoy and progress).
This is about paying for progression and I believe this is the new norm. Similar to how pay for runs became a thing in GW1. It is essentially the same thing.
I don’t have to do this. I’m secure with my skill at the game, I don’t need any validation that I can get though the ridiculous maps (which would be fun if mobs didn’t force me to start over at a way point 20 minutes away from target) and I care zero about what the player taking the money thinks of my skill. I realize most younger people don’t value time the same way I do and some may even have a prestige prob;em with asking for this sort of help or may even judge me for it (the later I find especially amusing).
Pretty much any system can be manipulated to server your needs on your terms. The trick is to find out how to do that within the confines of the law that governs the system. In this case, the “law that governs” would be ArenaNet policy and they don’t have a problem with it.
(edited by SamTheGuardian.2938)
The developer should pay players to get on maps and play (send their play testers in to respond to LFG, etc..) help offset the population drop. But of course why would they bother with that when they’ve already gotten their positive reviews and the launch herd/swarm has been well fed. I can pull out my mastercard and buy more gems, convert to gold and pay others. That is what they want. They don’t see this as a problem at all.
Today it just struck me, I’m no longer having fun in GW2. I have no desire to log on and play. And thats entirely from the TD map.
I just want the meta to get my mistward headpiece, and it seams such a simple goal, but night after night, I spend hours trying to get it done, organising maps etc, and it fails each time, sometimes close, sometimes not.
But this is more effort than a raiding guild….and its just not fun.
I’ll give it a few days, see if I summon any enthusiasm, but I really hope anet sort this kitten out.
It was not this way if you ran with the launch herd. I was with them and had to bow out. TD was very much alive a few weeks back. The problem boils down to mobs that pull you in and kill you + few way points + a user interface that does a horrible job indicating z-order/depth location of target points (cough, story point green stars). You journey to the location only to find confusion as the marker is telling you that you are on the correct depth and no longer showing “above” “below” but yet you clearly aren’t quite there. You get mobbed because you’re running around in circles on an empty map creating agro and no one else is around. ANet has been doing knee-jerk nerfs on map content to try and solve the population drop off but this is core design mechanic problems. On overhead map have a way player can really know how close they are X,Y and Z. Sprinkle in 2-3 more way points on TD math, add more mushrooms and more of the opposite of mushroom (ones that let you go down instead of up) they should be all over the kitten map. Will probably loose $100+ paying others to help me get to content. It’s unacceptable that I should have to go to guildies and ask them to stop what they are doing to do these stupid runs when the design of the game gives then next to no incentive. The design puts guild members in position to beg other guildies for help or offer to pay due to the games design inadequacies.
So here we are again, ANet. What was feeling like the most amazing expansion for any MMO has proven it’s design is not able to support a drop in population. The Wizard has had the curtain stripped away, revealing what amounts to a bit of a fraud. Of course the launch herd that cleared out are telling all their friends how much fun they had (past tense) and how they can’t wait for raids. They are off doing other things at this point and have no clue (and many never will) of how bad it’s gotten. Gamers can be truly horrible human beings sometimes.
Ended up paying about 20g this morning just to avoid hours of more frustration. Our minds don’t all process information the same way. For some of us these jungle maze maps are fun, but very challenging. When you add in impassable mobs we fall into and target location markers (green stars) that do not have depth/z-location well defined, you remove all the fun and just induce rage. This is horrible design. The maps themselves are phenomenally good, it’s the other teams that I feel dropped the ball.
(edited by SamTheGuardian.2938)
No one even responds to these anymore. I kind of hope it breaks the devs hearts to see how much of the population is gone. Yes, that’s kind of spiteful but also deserved. There’s always that arrogant stancd that “our game will be different” if game studios would just accept that the population is going to drop by 75% second week after launch and have balance patches ready to go (it’s called be proactive not reactive) then this sort of thing could be solved… Also still believe Reviews on MMOs and MMO expansions should occur after the launch herd has cleared. I am actually going to lobby for that cause to the gaming media. Hopefully they can see the benefit that would have to their readers.
Had a delightful time this morning running around the empty Tangled Depths map trying to navigate though the four depth layers (we all know there are actually more than four it’s just someone was too lazy to make the extra layers selectable in the HUD) I have had nothing but praise for HoT but the PvE side of the game has truly gone to kitten. I wonder what it must be like to be on the dev team after having spent so many hours in dev in test to now go to these empty maps and see the bones of the caucus of the game you made. It’s flesh devoured during launch week and now not much left for the casual types coming back. Let me be explicit. For “The Way In” I spent ~2 hours just trying to run the map to find the accurate depth level for the next marker, constantly getting mobbed due to wrong turns. Is this what you intended for us ArenaNet? Is this your idea of fun? At this point the PvE side of your game is chore. As I progress further and further into the story the more disappointed I get at the failure of the writers to tickle the imagination. I honestly believe I could have written a better story. Why am I pushing on? Same reason I did all the story mode dungeons in order with my personal story in core game. It’s an OCD thing. I don’t think I can pass final judgement until I’ve seen it all and I hear Dragon Stand is something ANet got very right. So there is that one thing to look forward to. Sadly every time I sign in I feel like the game itself is like a job, the fun is dried up for me. Hope it returns after I get past the next few chapters.
The community in this game carries the weight, but I do have to offer gold to get help. Once I do I get a lot of sympathy. EVERYONE is upset to some degree over how horribly the design accommodates few players or players hording up in select map locations. IMO this should have been core stuff you worked out ANet.
During launch week taking the same trip from story mission stat to proper marker would have probably taken 10-minutes tops because the player base with the same goals were there. Players had incentive to play together and players were taking care of the mobs that will take you down quickly.
This is the price one pays for having to play during off hour times and after the launch herd. Zero respect guys.
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i quite like skyhammer… why should we removed it? i like diversity …
However … u will never find this map on ranked arena … so why complaining? >-> AnD I hope for a capricorn come back (with just 20cm of water … enough to down some asuras… huehuehue)
You make a valid point. Instead of removing it a checkbox option for “Only Ranked arenas” when queuing up would also solve it. Those who want to do unranked for practice but would rather not be forced into a situation where they must play Skyhammer or abandon team should be given options.
skyhammer is fine and fun.
wait until 1 dec 2015 and play ranked then to avoid playing in skyhammer.
The fact that it’s not in ranked rotation validates that it’s a trash map…. Again it’s about the chance to skill ratio being off. But I guess some prefer chance over skill
Hi, I’m GW1 player, and I did want, with all my heart to see return on Random-Arena.
For those who don’t know what that is I’ll explain:
- It’s a solo queue with death match style of 5v5
- you get paired with 4 random people
- if all players on one side are dead, that team is defeated and the team that won, will go in next round.
- There is no re-spawn once you are dead.
- There is no reviving once you are fully dead.
- If you win, your team will continue in the next round, Maximum rounds is 25, if you lose, your team is kicked into the lobby.
- Higher you climb higher reward you get.
- If player doesn’t want to continue, you can go out on the end of the round, and that player is replaced with random person.
- You can change your build in Ready position before round starts.
- No time frame[all fights were cca 2-10 min long].
- Example
This was a game mode of true skill, honor, pride, helping each other like a brother or sister to push harder to the top, a joy and meaning of PvP, where many times you felt like a hero for defeating enemy team as last man standing.
We have none of this in Conquest, a wanna-be-eSports-like game mode, enforced way of playing that MOBA brought to us.
Where are death match maps? I’ve expected at least two of them with better design then Courtyard, less clustered.
But all we got was Stronghold and removal of Courtyard, shame to remove the best PvP mode from original Guild Wars.
I think your suggestion is great! Bring back Random Arena’s and the bullet’s you outline would make it fun and reminiscent of GW1. Having said that, you aren’t giving
Conquest the respect it deserves. It sounds like you want 100% of the strategy to be in the play mechanics between the team (healing, range, dps). Point capture by two skilled teams takes all the effort of what you deal with in death match scenario and adds the mechanic of point capture + the secondary map mechanic to the mix. It takes much more skill to balance all of those elements, decide on your team splits, strategize use of secondary mechanics, etc… It can become too busy (e.g. Skyhammer) but on most maps it’s balanced well. Stronghold format has the potential to be run tournaments parallel with Conquest. We just need more maps. Honestly the Random Arenas, death match style PvP while fun is a bit primitive. I think it worked well in GW1 because we had so many skills to pick from (Build Wars) with GW2 we see maybe a dozen great and meta builds being run. There is little strategy in the individual build, focus is action-combat and skill and I think the additional mechanics add to the fun with action combat.
why are people always asking for stuff to be removed???? They’ve removed enough stuff as it it!
And no, I like Skyhammer…Risk of falling???
God get better for heavens sake
“get better” at what exactly? Avoiding unblockable knock downs that toss me to my death? Even considering the aspects a player could focus on getting better at for sky hammer, to have a map in the game that requires players put all that effort in for ONE LITTLE KITTEN MAP that’s most certainly not going to even by in ranked rotation makes no sense. How do you rationalize that? I will give you a chance to consider the rules that govern sports, think about ANY KITTEN sport and the importance of balance of playing field and validate your suggestion of “get better” and in detail explain why one map should be left in the game that requires this level of focus. The bottom line is you’re wrong. It doesn’t make any sense. I realize I’m probably coming across a bit rude, but I have a low tolerance for ignorance and in this case I’m just asking you to put a rebuttal instead of casually blowing this off. I actually care about PvP in this game a great deal and think a map like Skyhammer makes a mockery of it.
It is the only map where trying to make your opponent fall to their death is a play mechanic. It’s the only map where on top of all the other dynamics of play you have to worry about the floor under you shattering or stepping into a shattered floor and falling to your death. If you respect GW2 as an e-sport, then consistency among mechanics has to be there. One unique secondary mechanic is the standard that was established and by invoke secondary mechanic alone the team can’t get the win. Think of NASCAR where each track is unique, but imagine if on one track NASCAR track decided to make it so drivers have to deal with oil spills that randomly occur or something ridiculous like that. That’s analogous to what Skyhammer is to the other maps. If you think I’m putting too much thought into it, then you’re coming from a different place and have no understanding of rules of play, mechanics etc that contribute to a sport being a sport. Again, consistency among the arenas is CRITICAL to making it respected. A good number of players don’t care anything about balance. The designers behind Skyhammer obviously did not, but it seems someone at ANet does care a great deal about making the game respected as an e-sport so hopefully they will listen.
(edited by SamTheGuardian.2938)
i think foefire is actually the worst ‘conquest’ map. it should be moved to stronghold.
Respect your opinion, but strongly disagree. While I think Battle of Kyhlo and Forest of Niflhel are the best two maps in the game (Forest is my favorite), Foefire is balanced there are great risk with going for the other teams guild lord and while Foefire also often becomes a death match in mid, the team effort needed to take out the lord & co keep things interesting. You also have no fear of falling to you death or dealing with some other asinine 3rd or 4th mechanic going on (“trap doors”, “falling on knock back”) making your skill-to-reward ratio ambiguous and just leaving the winning team feeling dirty and the loosing team raging. The design of skyhammer was meant to stir these emotions. It was designed to incense. I have great respect for the team behind all the ranked maps we saw in rotation last season as they are fairly well balanced. Temple being my least favorite but leagues ahead of Spirit Watch and Skyhammer.
I think the overall spirit behind the Skyhammer map design is juvenile. If you want respect from the eSport community you need to get rid of trash maps. A “trash map”, again a trash map can be defined by it’s lack of consistency with the other core maps. Not rocket science. If ANet wants GW2 esport to be taken seriously they need to let adults create the maps. Or force the adults who do to have a more mature design philosophy. They want to nix “trolling character names” and “trolling team names” then they need to do their part and eliminate maps like Skyhammer that just troll the players in general.
(edited by SamTheGuardian.2938)
… The map is absolute trash. From the awkward, one-off play mechanics of “trap doors” to the poorly designed routes. The map immediately deteriorates into a death match at mid. But wait, there’s more! The secondary mechanic is way too OP. This ads to the “fun”… If consistency is the bar for good e-sport (which it unquestionably is, the maps are essentially our fields to play on) by that measure skyhammer is complete garbage. Honestly, Raid on the Capricorn was a more balanced map (thank you for removing it, it was also not consistent). Just putting up a little “post it” to let you know I DESPISE Skyhammer. The designers behind it had a vision of some sort, they obviously were not taking GW2 sPvP very seriously or were just ignorant of the importance of balance for the maps themselves not just classes. Regardless, this is my (likely fruitless) request for Skyhammer to permanently retired from the game. No doubt many love it, but I know many hate it as well. Would love community thoughts on this…. TL;DR – I hate Skyhammer because it’s overall design and secondary play mechanic varies so greatly from the other maps that it doesn’t really feel like Conquest. On top of that the trap door and risk of falling add to the variation making Skyhammer as much (if not more) a game of chance than skill. This unbalance takes the subjectivity out of it. By measurable criteria of consistency Skyhammer is a very poor map for PvP. With leagues play coming up why have maps in rotation that won’t be ranked? Isn’t this just wasting our time?
(edited by SamTheGuardian.2938)
For those who’ve been able to get a taste of GW2 raids, I’d like feedback on your beta experience. 1. How long did the raid take (or how long did you spend trying to beat it)? 2. Did you enjoy what you experienced? 3. How important do you think party configuration will be to raiding (1-10)? How important do you think voice communication will be to raiding (1-10)? Please tag spoiler content appropriately per forum etiquette
Thanks
(edited by SamTheGuardian.2938)
The story mission Roots of Terror is one of the worst in the game. Not overly difficult, not challenging, just kitten annoying. This is textbook Horrible design. I don’t know where to suggest you start with fixing it but you can start with the problem of falling. About 1/4 though if you fall in upper north east area of instance there are no mushrooms or path to jump back up. The player finds themselves in a situation where their best option is just leave the instance and do it over again. Since this is inconsistent with other instanced content I assume this is just something that got missed as you rushed the creation of this. Regardless it’s unforgivable as you’re only succeeding in 1.) annoying players 2.) wasting our time. A simple mushroom placement or two would solve this. Perhaps it might be something you look into.
Everyone should have expected meta to get a big reset when the elite specializations hit. Truthfully, ArenaNet did a much better job balancing these than I initially gave them credit for. After several matches I feel only the Dragon Hunter and Herald need some tuning (and that’s just tuning, not major overall). If anything the Dragon Hunter probably needs the most work but this is nothing new. Before Elite Specs we had D/D Ele and before that… We already have new meta conquest builds on certain elite specializations. If you really feel your old build is inadequate now, pick one of the new ones and start practicing it. There is no gear progression in sPvP you have everything you need just go work on it.
So over the last several days we have seen a sharp decline in the map population as the launch herd has moved on to other games or to doing specific content in GW2 outside leveling their main and working though the story for the first time. If you were able to put the rest of your life on pause during launch week you got to have a unique experience. The excitment of being on the maps for the first time with a huge group of players and the inevitable and superficial rush to the finish line has occurred and the stadium has emptied out save for the loyal ones who will now carry the game forward. Many of us are taking our time playing through the content and it’s always awkward around this point after launch of new expansion (regardless which MMO it is) as the amount of time it takes to find groups can become unbearable and the developer continues to tune content to accomodate current population (we know it’s happening ArenaNet, even if it isn’t in the patch notes). It can be a frustrating time. Here are a few suggestions
- Accept that you are often not going to get help when you ask for it. It’s not that other players are bad or that the community overall is bad, it’s just they have other things to do and there are now far fewer of them with any incentive to go after the hero challenge, event, story, etc… that you want to go after. You’re upset that no one is offering to help with your objectives so be part of the solution and take some time to offer in map chat or peek at the LFG status and find something to help with. You will get XP for mysteries and probably make a friend in the process. If more people do this then someone will likely be there to help you
- Consider offering gold to party members. I will admit to having done this with a bitter spirit and I shouldn’t have. ANet has no problem with players paying players for services and in fact this goes back to GW1 when we paid gold in exchange for runs. If you’re short on time and need a party to go do something specific offer x amount of gold. Also consider advertising in LFG to sell your services for hero challenge tours on specific maps. Using portal Mesmers will be especially sought out for getting around some of the mastery requirements. Many players will suggest in investing in a tag (300g / ~$30 USD) but I would suggest instead follow other’s tag for meta events and instead just offer x gold per party member to help you with specific content. You’ll save money.
- Play though HoT on your alts, leveling more than one at a time. The Elite Specializations give you incentive to do this.
- The race in HoT is over. The herd cleared what they wanted and have moved on. There’s no longer a race to the finish line so ease up a bit. You can always go back to core game and cap the 1pt hero challenges to help with your elite spec unlock, do Fractals, WvW, sPvP. Chances are if you’re still around you loved the core game and were here long before HoT launched. When you can’t get help with something return to core game for a while and don’t forget the new players who came in when the game went free to download/free to play. Many of them are needing help with story, dungeons, etc… Core game Masteries should add incentive for you to do this.
Players who rushed the content have gotten their reward. Yours will be enjoying a more tuned, bug free experience as you take your time. You’ll notice with each bullet point, ANet has baked in incentives to approach the content this way. It’s clear they put some thought into how to sustain the game in the early days “after the herd leaves”. I think they should have put more thought into it (no developers wants to accept that the launch community will dwindle, but from my experience the drop always happens 1.5-2 weeks in).
(edited by SamTheGuardian.2938)
Looking for a list of private/public sPvP tournaments from 2014-2015 that were sponsored by ArenaNet where gems or items were given away to winners. Also what classification (pro/non-pro, etc…). Would be nice if there was a central place on-line to keep it.
In GW1 it was common to pay other plays for “runs” . In GW2 we have “Taxi” services which are kind of the same. With Heart of Thorns players are now offering to help others cap all hero challenges on a map quickly for pay. What is ArenaNet’s stance on players paying other players with in-game items/currency for assistance?
A guild is not 1 person. At this point you are just another player with a tag.
If you want to use a guild hall one is available for you to use in Lion’s Arch.
Good point no one has brought up. The Guild Initiative Headquarters in Lions Arch is a temporary guild instanced zone. I think they should make it so the “Guild Hall” travel button on guild panel takes you to the Guild Unitive HQ prior to a GH claim.
OP. You only need 10 to run the claim mission for Lost Precipice Hall. I can help you get most of them if you’d like
Looking to hire an announcer for a private GW2 PvP tournament event. If interested please PM me send links to example videos of your work, compensation requirements, etc..
Advetures (minigames) - Rant / Feedback
in Guild Wars 2: Heart of Thorns
Posted by: SamTheGuardian.2938
I think gold should be difficult and require some degree of perfection. That’s why the rewards for the collections only require silver.
I gold’d the fungus one and didn’t use some of the skips that guy did. A couple of them don’t actually save any time. Like after 1ing the bit with the red circles, it’s it’s easier to just run down the mushrooms until the last one then use 2 from there to the checkpoint.
The start is the hardest part. If you manage to 1 skill from the startpoint into the right side of the mushroom, then 1 again up the hill without getting stuck, then leap the gap with 2, the rest isn’t hard.
Some of them seem almost impossible to get gold on still though. Scrap rifles in tangled depths, exalted masks in tarir..
I played several Adventures during the first few days after launch and it was a fun experinece where everyone on team had some chance as we learned together. Now the elites have taken them over so you’re either that good or you’re not. You don’t become a pro F1 driver by going from getting your license to going out on a track every day with an F1 pro race care driver. When you pit amateurs against elites, the amatures just get crushed and eventually move on. To improve at something most people need to be pitted against experienced competitors. Then they grow instead of getting instantly crushed. This is all common sense. Given x amount of experience some players will rise to be more skilled than others, but when you have the best skilled players with the most experience going up against played with little or no experience there is no fun in that and there is very little chance of the player no no experience at the adventure progression. Exceptionally skilled players could rise in those circumstances, but the point is the bar to enter and just have fun learning has been raised exponentially higher than it should be. If this is what ANet intended then no change is needed. If what is occuring is not what they desire then I’m just doing my part to let them know how drastically my positive experience with adventures has become a negative one. Not because I expect to win every time, but because as it stands I can’t even get a handle on what’s going on any more without some other player ending it.
Heh, what does it have to with other players? The adventures are solo content and the thresholds for gold/silver/bronze are fixed. The only one where other players being there seemed a factor was that salvage pit one in Verdank Brink but that was simple enough anyway.
The ones I tried were not solo
Advetures (minigames) - Rant / Feedback
in Guild Wars 2: Heart of Thorns
Posted by: SamTheGuardian.2938
The adventures that were once a lot of fun have already become unapproachable to newcomers.
Would like to add to this thread that this morning I tried three mini-games/adventures. I ended up doing each of them about five times, in all cases the game ended almost instantly and after my five attempts I was only slightly more equipped with a bearing on what was going on, map objectives, etc..
Sort of like unbalanced pvp, you have players who have become experts at these adventures using them to farm XP and they don’t do much else and they are going up against players who have never tried the adventure…. If you put a pro up against a complete amateur, do you really think the amateur is going to play 100 games against the pro and slowly learn as he gets beaten each time? Probably not. For someone to improve at anything they need a trainer and they need to be pitted against people of similar classification for experience with whatever the objective is. As with anything the key is balance, but I don’t think these were thought through very well.
I do like that the adventures exist as an alternative way to gain xp, bu they are a closed door unless I want to grind though a couple hundred games to get my head around what’s going on (again, the race type ones end almost instantly) I’ll let the Adventurer elites have their mini-games.
Making these so simple that you get them 100% on the first or second try would be VERY lame since there are so few of them. There are a couple that I got gold ont he first try and i just sat there disappointed.
I don’t think they should nerf the adventures. NO! Just consider balancing when enough players are going for the adventure. As it stands now you have a few players who are exceptionally good who are just competing with each other for each adventure and everyone else need not apply because for some of them it’s over almost immediately… At this point the maps are so empty (except for early evening) that balancing them would be difficult so they are for the elites who’ve already gotten pretty good at them to compete with one another and pretty much closed off to anyone else.
I played several Adventures during the first few days after launch and it was a fun experinece where everyone on team had some chance as we learned together. Now the elites have taken them over so you’re either that good or you’re not. You don’t become a pro F1 driver by going from getting your license to going out on a track every day with an F1 pro race care driver. When you pit amateurs against elites, the amatures just get crushed and eventually move on. To improve at something most people need to be pitted against experienced competitors. Then they grow instead of getting instantly crushed. This is all common sense. Given x amount of experience some players will rise to be more skilled than others, but when you have the best skilled players with the most experience going up against played with little or no experience there is no fun in that and there is very little chance of the player no no experience at the adventure progression. Exceptionally skilled players could rise in those circumstances, but the point is the bar to enter and just have fun learning has been raised exponentially higher than it should be. If this is what ANet intended then no change is needed. If what is occuring is not what they desire then I’m just doing my part to let them know how drastically my positive experience with adventures has become a negative one. Not because I expect to win every time, but because as it stands I can’t even get a handle on what’s going on any more without some other player ending it.
(edited by SamTheGuardian.2938)
Advetures (minigames) - Rant / Feedback
in Guild Wars 2: Heart of Thorns
Posted by: SamTheGuardian.2938
The adventures that were once a lot of fun have already become unapproachable to newcomers.
Would like to add to this thread that this morning I tried three mini-games/adventures. I ended up doing each of them about five times, in all cases the game ended almost instantly and after my five attempts I was only slightly more equipped with a bearing on what was going on, map objectives, etc..
Sort of like unbalanced pvp, you have players who have become experts at these adventures using them to farm XP and they don’t do much else and they are going up against players who have never tried the adventure…. If you put a pro up against a complete amateur, do you really think the amateur is going to play 100 games against the pro and slowly learn as he gets beaten each time? Probably not. For someone to improve at anything they need a trainer and they need to be pitted against people of similar classification for experience with whatever the objective is. As with anything the key is balance, but I don’t think these were thought through very well.
I do like that the adventures exist as an alternative way to gain xp, bu they are a closed door unless I want to grind though a couple hundred games to get my head around what’s going on (again, the race type ones end almost instantly) I’ll let the Adventurer elites have their mini-games.
(edited by SamTheGuardian.2938)
So the last few days I’ve thrown on a mentor tag and spammed map chat for up to 20 minutes to get 2 to 3 other people to join me for these Champion hero points. It’s not fun and should be changed to match the first maps changes.
I see other players that have already done it running past as the rewards are terrible and don’t encourage anyone to complete them again after getting their points.
My favorite is getting yelled at for not helping with META events and people saying HPs should be disabled during them. Well if the HPs didn’t take 4+ people and 20 minutes to gather a group i’m sure people would be more willing to do them at a more convenient time.
I’m sure i’ll get lots of blah blah MMORPG, blah blah Elitism. I have full elite specs trained on 3 characters and running the rest of my alts through is getting worse and worse as the majority of players have what they wanted trained.
What’s happened is you’ve missed the swarm/herd they came though at launch and stayed up 24/7 clearing all the maps. Well the swarm has for the most part, gotten what they wanted out of HoT. Some are back in other games, some are camping meta events, etc… but what they are not doing is going after HP points again on the alts as fast as ANet must have assumed.
So the maps are pretty dead and what once took 3-5 minutes because of the insanely large server populations now takes 20-30 minutes. This is a great time to point out why the “herd” that storms the launch gate should never be listened to. As they were all up in arms about the 400 HP requirement being dropped to 250, they were also rushing though all the content running with the herd. Since it only took them 5 minutes to cap each hero challenge they lack the insight to understand how much more difficult and tedious it has become.
Here are a few things I would like to toss into the hat for ArenaNet mull over in dealing with the problem of the “the evacuating swarm”
- Starting about a week post launch, “hire” from the trusted play testing staff to transition to just being paid-to-play gamers on specific servers and help players. Put 10 -15of these players on a map. Compensate them well with gems (e.g. 1,200 gems an hour). As time goes on slowly reduce the number of ANet employees playing. Their purpose would not to be a permit fixture to keep server traffic up but to ease the transition when the swarm leaves to help us ease into what the average populations will be. They would be helping prevent the horrible drop off point that happens about this into a new MMO expansion’s life
- Increase balancing rewards and target them at players doing meta events. E.g. problem: 100 players on a server are participating in a meta event. 10 players are on the map doing non-meta map content. Randomly select 40 doing the meta event and give them a dialog saying “World events could use a little help. Help with world events to get a special reward”… What that reward is can be thought out by the dev team. The algorithm could just start a timer when the player accepts to leave the meta event and begin counting all the world events and content they helped with: vista, hero challenges, way points, world event competition could all add to the points they earn when the time is on. Then make the awards something desirable. and slightly better than what the meta event would award them. They should feel like lottery winners getting picked to ask to leave the meta for a unique challenge of helping with world content, but once the timer runs out they’ve either passed or failed. So they are leaving one challenge to go after another; not sacrificing their meta event awards to help other, simply being offered a new way to get great rewards by making the meta sacrifice to help with map balance.
- Make it so scaling works differently during low population times. ANet obviously wants the new content to be for groups but you shouldn’t block progression when groups aren’t around. Yes, I know most MMOs do, it’s because the developers haven’t been innovative enough to fix the problem. When you have a new expansion come out and getting one other person to help with events is already a challenge less than two weeks post launch you can see the benefit this would provide. Everything is logged so if the game populations adapts and a lot more start playing at 3 AM, after a few days of that adjust.
A few non-ANet suggestions.
- Media reviewing the game should wait until about 1.5 weeks in and base their review on how the game is functioning following the swarm. Otherwise their review of the game will be context specific to how it played while the launch Swarm was still actively moving tough the maps and keeping everything busy.
- If you find yourself unable to go after your goals on a map, become part of the solution. Realize there is someone else out there in need of help too just as frustrated. Go be part of the solution. Sure you may not get your hero challenge done for a few months, but remember this is the price of being someone who actually respects the game. Empathize with the developer and the other players dealing with this problem of post launch swarm and help make someone else gaming experience good. Now that the scum bags who only cared about the prestige of their “me first” badge have gobbled up all the PvE map competition content and are focused on meta events or other games, you can take some pride in knowing the game finally belongs to your type now.
(edited by SamTheGuardian.2938)
If there were few players on the map you would get a message saying so, and an offer to join a more populated map.
Only if there was a more populated map.
This is the real problem. There just isn’t. Launch week is over and swarm has moved on. If you weren’t part of it, you missed it. Perspectives take hold. Regardless if you’re someone who chooses to devote all your free time to gaming (adolescent hard core player) or you took a week of vacation to play 200+ hours (adult hard core) you’re still part of the problem with MMOs.
To be fair the developers encourage this. They could time gate it so only about 2-3 hours of progression a day is achievable, but they know then the hardcore crowd would get very fussy and rage-leave. So they go so far as to essentially encourage the launch week numbers to sky rocket.
When the dust settles (as it has) there is a much different play experience to be had. Searching the jungle for 10-15 minutes find another player, all content you enjoyed a few days earlier now seemingly impossible. As you look at your hero points and you see you only have 140 and that 0% of the map population is willing to help you, you begin to real in your thoughts on initial 400 hp req and the hard core crowd that wanted to keep the number high. Those players largely cared nothing about the casual crowd left behind once they swarm out. The swarm of course only cares about one thing, the prestige of being able to scream like a spoiled, filthy, rotte- to-the-core, child “me first”. This crowd reduces the game. They are negative energy in the long term. Players with only self-serving interest with zero respect for the property who are just looking to add another “notch in their belt”. Because I see their behavior as disrespectful of something I respect it’s very difficult to not despise them.
They swarm in then swarm out and leave your favorite game like a store that’s been robbed and ransacked which in this context means empty.