Guild Wars 2

Best of luck to you. I hope it does better than Wildstar did for those of us that tried that game out … you want to talk about bad balance …

Suggestion … keep tabs on new living story and patches … might see something you like.

How dare you want skills to work correctly … you just want to be OP! ;-)

Sorry, forums are infecting me, lol.

Actions speak louder than words when inspiring people to do the right thing or when proving that you can do something or will do something.

When talking about game mechanics (or any mechanics), you should be able to explain. There are these things people use called “math” and “logic”.

Sigh… can’t wait to receive your whisper and all the intelligence that comes with it.

Golems should move … and learn to dodge :-p

Aye, you can’t do that now and I have no real use for “Guard” … or most other Ranger shouts. I’m surprised they’re still around.

Honestly, I just went with Travelers in the end for the movespeed. It has some +all-stats as well as a little boon and cond duration as well. Doesn’t specialize, but I move faster and it fits everything at least somewhat.

I’m sorry …
Warrior MH Mace, OH Sword, or Shield … blocks it. Endure Pain does too.
Elementalist Arcane Shield blocks it. Swirling Winds. Magnetic Aura.
Mesmer blocks, distortion, iWarden, etc.
Ranger greatsword block, OH axe, sword/dagger evade
…
and so on.

Not to mention interrupts.

Is there counterplay? Yes, loads of it.

Are the top rangers playing Berserker Longbow? Doesn’t look like it … but I’d love to see them do it. Wonder why I’m not though … obviously because it’s OP :-p

I’m enjoying the plethora of squishy FotM builds. I will continue.

LMAO. I’m online after my kids are in bed. Roughly 8pm Central. You know my ID.

Don’t have the words for it?

Not surprising.

While we’re ordering things … can I get a pet that can hit a moving target? :-p

… and a large fry, a frosty, and an apple pie.

But you never told us why you think Greatsword is OP?

Didn’t have logic for that either? Oh well.

There go my laughs.

That’d be my fault, Yellow. Back when “Guard” had an actual use (pet scaling walls), I got together a group of friends on TeamSpeak and we all rolled Beastmaster Rangers. We roamed from siege to siege with cat pets and all utilities revolving around sending in pet missiles. We’d down person after person with our stealthy cats kitten would jump on whatever target we called.

Some people would run and we’d laugh as we saw damage numbers through the wall as we guessed how far they were getting by where the numbers showed … but they’d die.

People didn’t like being chased down by our pets … people would complain even more if our pets had more HP … as they’d die to attacks instead of stray mass AOE :-p

Sorry … I ruined it for you all.

@quaniesan: if you look at the latest posts, that’s what we’re wanting … it to be reliable. Get rid of the RNG and just give it an ICD so that it can be reliably used.

I’d recommend Berserker gear first since you want to PvE.

Then, try that Berserker gear in WvW (but be carefuly with your squishy self). If you enjoy it … yay, done. If not, start to tweak for more/less survivability … changing from power to condition … being more of a hybrid … etc.

You’ll only know what you enjoy in WvW by trial and error.

• There are people who are nice and explain to someone what something means
• There are people who call people idiots for not knowing what something means
  • There are people who call people idiots for calling other people idiots
    • There are people who call people idiots for calling other people idiots that called other people idiots
      • There are people who call people idiots for calling other people idiots that called other people idiots that called other people idiots

… see where this is going?

… oh yeah, also …

• There are people who are people

The more you know …

Sounds like we’re on the same page

… I blame your build I’ve been experimenting with … liking it more and more … must be invading my brain …

Is this how you work?! You must secretly be a Necro/Mesmer infecting me.

Oh, definitely, Guardian plays differently from Thief and having another block to go with the other blocks, blinds, etc. is nice for them. But I figured that was out of scope since he only mentioned heals of Guardian and Ele.

If a Thief gets nailed by anything considerable they are dead (conditions less so if they are built with enough cleanse). This is why Thieves are an evasive class and why, while they can dodge/evade more than even Ranger with Sword+Dagger, I don’t have an issue with that at all. They are practically the opposite of a Necromancer who facetanks like a champ but have far fewer ways to fully negate damage.

Back to comparing Guardian/Ele … strip an elementalist of their boons and they crumple … or run away.

Guardian is less squishy if you boon strip them … but definitely effected … but they also suck at running away … especially compared to the Ele.

Those classes depend more on those things than most others.

Honestly, I’d prefer if they just made it 100% and be done with it. No need for that 50% RNG BS. It wastes computation cycles and doesn’t add anything in my opinion.

While I hate being feared for hitting someone, I don’t think it needs to be removed. It provides interesting builds and play.

Are we really still talking about Helicopters and Paper Airplanes? I feel like this has turned into a troll party, lol.

First several responses are just snark … no response needed.

Rapid Fire can be activated without a target. My 9 year old does it all the time on his Ranger … just like he does with other skills on his other characters. I’m well aware how the skill works. Apparently you aren’t, but are pretending to.

Rapid Fire being used every time you try to stealth is an exaggeration. Plain and simple. The only way that is happening is if either you are extremely predictable and/or only try to stealth once they have started to cast rapid fire.

We can fight if you want sometime. Couldn’t care less. Probably have before and didn’t notice (nor care). The game has been out for quite a while.

If it was simply called running away when you reset a fight, then why are Warriors complaining about Thieves doing it to drain Warrior adrenaline in fights? It’s only “just running away” if you don’t gain any benefit from doing it and are just trying to escape.

Still, when losing, dumb players stay to die. Good players escape if they can.

I’m still waiting to hear why you think the Ranger Greatsword is also overpowered. Explanation? Or are you just making another claim with no info?

I doubt you know what EBCAK is … without googling it.

I’m still horribly amused by you.

@loseridiot: I didn’t bash Guardian/Elementalist healing. I did point out that they have less HPS than Thief’s and that some of them don’t provide nearly as much utility either. This was requested since someone said that Thief’s heals aren’t that great. That doesn’t mean they are bad. Reading comprehension. The HPS on shelter is bad. It’s redeeming value is the block. This is common knowledge.

If rather than this chance BS they just made it 100% but put an ICD on it, I think it could be much better. It would effectively allow Sword/Greatsword to have an extra dodge/evade versus projectiles.

I don’t know why game makers feel the need to put RNG into games. Human beings provide enough entropy/randomness/variation.

RNG can detract from skill … meh.

My preferences for builds are either fast shatter builds or those that include on-clone-death traits as I find these scale better for larger fights. Otherwise, your illusions get popped by random cleaves from some new guy that’s running around swinging his sword.

Skyhammer, Stealth Engineer (elixir toolbelt), Toolkit pull onto glass floor engineer just broke while stealthed.

Just mean.

And another one of the many examples why I hate that map :-p

Engineer isn’t OP … it just allows for tons of creativity …like Mesmer … which people complained about forever till they learned how to figure out the real one … and confusion got nerfed to hell so they could survive blindly cleaving illusions.

When someone can show me an example where there are 0 options/counterplay then I’ll listen to shouts of “OP”.

The only way you are keeping a target between 1,200 and 1,500 is if (1) they suck or (2) they are fighting someone else

Wow … you aren’t aware of your Acrobatics traitline? /golfclap. I suggest you take a look at it. It’s an awesome traitline.

Also, I do play Thief; just not nearly as much as my Mesmer. This isn’t exactly an MMO where running multiple characters is difficult.

You should go listen to the more skilled thieves though. They are still happy. They are still quite solid (understatement) 1v1 and know their strengths/weaknesses in group fights.

As far as Rapid Fire hitting you when you’re stealthed … only if the cast is started before you stealth. Otherwise, it won’t hit you because they no longer have you targeted when they start the cast. This is very basic information you should know.

I’m horribly amused that you’re lumping in Warrior with Ranger. If you look at their sub-forum, there is a horde of people like you complaining that it’s broken … despite there still be good warriors all over the place still wrecking face.

I get the feeling that you just don’t know how to fight Warriors and Rangers.

I’m also horribly amused that you think the Ranger greatsword is OP. What exactly is overpowered about it?

Yes, resetting combat involves getting out of combat. That’s why you do it because that regenerates your HP quickly and now you can re-enter the fight at a better position. Smart players do this all the time because it is much better than dying. But hey, if you still think dying is superior … that’s your right to err.

We have all “heard rumors” of class X killing class Y. The forums are littered with people like you complaining about class X that killed them.

You are quite correct that there is a huge difference between good and bad thieves. One of the biggest is that the good thieves are out there killing while you’re complaining on the forums that Rangers longbows and greatswords (lmao) are OP … and that Warriors are OP too … lol.

Still obviously E.B.C.A.K. … there are guides you could read that would help you.

Anet is balancing the forums for PvP?

Does that mean we need to worry about being zerged on the forums? :-p

In other words … the Thieves dying to it are the same players that die as Rangers to reflect :-p

I’ll think about Warhorn if I have fields I want a blast finisher in … otherwise it’s dagger for me.

I’m well aware of the +dmg, regen, +crit chance from adrenaline.

Again, if you’re killing a mob so quickly that you’re not even getting much adrenaline from it … why do you feel the need for these?

Also, why not, for now, try builds that don’t include these? Branch out and see if there is something you can learn from the current state of the Warrior.

Losing adrenaline on miss … I think this is a move in the right direction … if and only if they continue to move in that direction with all of the classes … otherwise, yes, you got unnecessarily slapped … but then so have many other class mechanics for much longer now.

The adrenaline drain … I don’t think ArenaNet did a proper job of looking at adrenaline gain and adrenaline drain when they made the changes.

Does anyone know what the average time is for gaining 1 bar of adrenaline? What it do people think it should be? … I’m not hearing this information anywhere. It seems quite pertinent to the topic.

When I’m on my Mesmer, I just laugh at projectile reflect/destruction … Greatsword pew pew.

It’s garbage because while it is a grandmaster trait it:

• has a much less than 50% chance to even work
• only works against a small subset of abilities … few scenarios

Look at grandmaster traits that people actually take for any class and you’ll see:

• They are reliable
• They are powerful and/or synergistic
• They work in several scenarios

Yes, the griping is exaggerated, unwarranted, and there’s a large amount of it. Welcome to game forums where most of the people aren’t old enough to remember when games were actually hard and were instead suckling their momma while many of us were bashing our heads against games that made you start back at the beginning if you died.

As far as “Ranger” … the fact that ‘range’ is part of the word is merely a coincidence. Ranger is a real word that existed before games and it does not mean “person that shoots from range” … though it doesn’t exclude it either ;-)

Now you know … and knowing is half the battle … G.I. Jooooooeeeee!

You can look up Ranger in a dictionary.
Reading is fun.
Reading rainbow

Sword #2 is a base 8 second cooldown (6.4 traited)
Greatsword #3 is a base 12 second cooldown (9.6 traited)

If you have mastered using both leaps on #2 to go the same direction, then you should be able to use Sword #2 three times for every one time someone would be able to use Greatsword #3 to gain considerable mobility.

You can also take advantage of sword #1 in the middle of a fight. If your AA is at the leap portion and you untarget, you can get ~2 leaps in whatever direction you’re facing.

@Javonovich.5280:
I didn’t say Ranger hard counters them, but Ranger is far from helpless against them and does have methods for dealing with both those builds … as I pointed out. Reading comprehension ftw.

Cam Ron.4170:
After you dodge a Rapid Fire, what do you need to dodge from a longbow for the next 8 to 10 seconds? Auto-attacks?

If they switch weapons, you just forced them out of the “OP” weapon you’re so bothered by for 9+ seconds.

Let me know when I can dodge roll twice against one Thief weapon set and not have to dodge anything but auto-attacks (backstab isn’t AA btw) for 8 to 10 seconds.

What Wyrden said is spot on.

Go over to the Mesmer forum and read the discussion about Assassin vs Berserker for PvP. You’ll see it turn to “I can’t go any less HP than that because of Thieves”. You don’t see them say “…because of Rangers” nor because of any other class.

If you’re a thief and having trouble with the Ranger change, it’s because you’re one of those Thieves that benefits from the low skill floor. The Thief class is unique in that while it has a crazy high skill ceiling, it also has a stupidly low skill floor.

Thieves have multiple closers … this is common knowledge.

If you don’t have terrain, sure, use your closer so you’re not getting plinked at 1,500 range. Otherwise, use terrain and save your cooldowns. This isn’t complicated.

Yes, evade will mitigate 100% of a backstab … if you guess correctly when they are going to use it. The key word here is “guess”.

You can mitigate a large portion of rapid fire’s damage by dodge rolling or all of it with the other mechanics that only work on projectiles. There is counterplay there. I’m sorry you’re unable to step up when presented an opportunity for counterplay.

The fact that as a thief you are having trouble with a glass build astounds me. It isn’t hard for Thieves to drop most glass builds in a quick rotation. You’re the kings and queens of glass cannon.

Daniel Handler is smart. He must be one of the many thieves I see running around laughing because of all the free lunches they are getting with the increase in non-thief glass builds in PvP right now.

Lol Vincent, I didn’t realize that you just stopped at 1,500 range and let him plink at you till you died.

Why are you stuck at max range this whole time? You can’t use steal or any other thief closer (weapon dependent, of course) ?

Also, most thieves can dodge more … and have evade on weapon skills. If my Ranger can do it with only 2 dodge rolls and evade on shortbow, you can do it too as a Thief. Heck, if my Mesmer can do it with dodge rolls and blurred frenzy, you can too.

Repositioning or reseting the fight isn’t running away. It’s reseting the fight. A smart person will do this if they’ve ended up in a bad position. A dumb person will just die.

If you think using cloak and dagger on the pet is a bad thing, then you’ve missed out on the point of stealth.

In the end … I see plenty of thieves that are eating up Rangers. What’s the difference between you and them other than the player? I see none.

#1: Why didn’t you dodge the knockback from that range? It has a very clear animation.

#2: Why are you unable to deal with the crappy pet AI when a Ranger hasn’t crippled/chilled/immobilized you? Also, with the pet right there, why arne’t you taking advantage of an easy source of stealth if you have an OH dagger … heal up and reset the fight from a better position.

#3: If you’re already at 1500 range, you should be able to teleport, roll back, etc. to line of sight it easily … or just get out of range. Thieves are far from slow/immobile.

Warrior Healing Signet? It loves my Ranger’s poison.

PU Mesmer? They love my Ranger’s pet … traps too … poison and other conditions as well.

Longbow Rangers? They are even easier to kill than PU Mesmers and Warriors. I’m much more wary facing a Mesmer/Warrior than I am a longbow Ranger … perhaps when it stops being FotM and most of the Rangers return to those who know what they are doing, I’ll return to being wary of Rangers. As it is right now … I’m wary of them only as far as being wary of being 2v1’d … but that’s no change.

Fluffball.8307:

Ha, I’m almost the opposite story. I still run in 100% berserker in WvW, I just got bored with LB. Been running a wide multitude of tankier melee builds with berserker gear. I tried switching back to GC LB after the patch and it just didn’t feel as satisfying. Poor necros never stood a chance.

At any rate, bark skin does make a shocking amount of difference for when things go really wrong, no matter how many you’re fighting.

Also one of my favorite hobbies I try hard not to seek out is running from a zerg while at 20% health. Good luck catching a s/d + gs ranger with bark skin, muddy terrain and lighnting reflexes. You can lead them across the entire map.

God, yes … I love doing this … very nice with the pet nipping at people’s heels too. Most just ignore it as it chases and slowly downs a squishy here and a squishy there.

Bonus points for looting bags while running from a zerg :-p

I’m sorry, I was replying to your latest post … not the one several back.
I’m amused you think it’s the blinks that make the difference … given that rapid fire doesn’t care if you’re close .. though a down Ranger doesn’t rapid fire … so there is that :-p

Evade works for both. Reflect only works against the projectile. Projectile destruction only works against the projectile. See how there are more that work against projectiles? That’s the difference.

Burn on block also punishes Rapid Fire. So do Retaliation and Confusion. Those hurts backstab quite a bit less.

I don’t personally care what you do with the Longbow as I am a much bigger fan of running with Sword+X / Greatsword / Shortbow … sometimes Axe+X … but Axe still doesn’t “feel right” to me.

I do think you’re massively exaggerating rapid fire given the fact that my Mesmer is eating these FotM Rangers easily and I haven’t changed from Sword+Sword/Staff with Ether Feast, Blink, Decoy, and a Cond Removal (I change that up depending on other teams’ classes) with Mass Invis as my elite. You see any reflects there? Nope. Just Blurred Frenzy, OH Sword block (and Daze), Daze from Chaos Storm, Daze from Shatters, Dodge Rolls, Distortion from Shatters and overall not sucking enough to die just because someone uses a channeled ranged ability that hits hard.

I’m also destroying them on my Warrior who can actually eat a Rapid Fire, but doesn’t do so very often thinks to blocks, interrupts, and invulnerability … on top of dodge rolls, etc.

I prefer the current Rapid Fire as it isn’t a single hit that does the full damage like the Warrior’s burst skill. Otherwise you’d have 1,500 range snipers in WvW doing what Warriors already do with their Rifles … just without the adrenaline requirement. The multiple shots makes it trivial for me. I don’t know what it’s so hard for others.

The only time it’s a pain is when I’m fighting someone else … but 2v1 is always a pain so I do not see the difference here.

Your grasp on this is as good as your grasp on the spelling of my name.

Now to your other “points” …

Denying stealth to thief is not like denying heal/aegis to guardian …

Denying blind to thief is like denying aegis to guardian … except thief can use blind much more often.

Thief healing was already covered … though we could look at your traits giving you regen, passive heal, condition removal, etc. in stealth (if you take them, of course).

Now to points in sPvP … never said you can’t kill a thief. Feel free to find where I did.
Thief is not designed to be a bunker .. which is what is used to defend a point. A roamer is used to kill enemy bunkers while assisting friendly bunkers. That is their role. If you want to contest a point … pick a class ideal for that. If you don’t like that your stealth makes you less than ideal for contesting a point, then please talk to a Guardian about how they’d love to have Thief’s mobility.

As far as evades/dodges … Thief can dodge and evade more than any class … followed up by a Sword/Dagger Ranger … but they can’t dodge 3 times … and can’t make vigor even better thinks to being able to do so.

Additionally, your Sword+Dagger isn’t the only weaponset with evades. Please look at your class some more.

Now to your reveal example … reveal doesn’t stack, it refreshes so 18s is a “lol”. Additionally, even if it did stack … 18s would require at least 3 different Rangers and/or Engineers using utilities that those classes don’t commonly take. If you’re being focused by 3 people … thief is one of the best, if not the best, at escaping fights … even without stealth … shortbow and teleport your butt out of there.

If you’re being bombed … relocate. You’re not only capable of stealth but of high mobility, several dodge rolls, and evades.

Lastly, steal is not weak, even when untraited. Go steal from a Mesmer, Guardian, Warrior, etc.. All boons is weak? That spin attack is weak? That big stun is weak? You just want a 1-button I-WIN or something?

Additionally, it can be a closer as well.

I see your problem … E.B.C.A.K.

@Vincent … I don’t want to see thief nerfed except stealth broken from Mesmer , Ranger, and Thief when they miss an attack from stealth. That is my one beef … especially given Warrior’s burst skill change.

As far as Rapid Fire … I don’t know how many times we have to point out ways to stop it … heck … 4 initiative to daze it. The FotM rangers that pop elite and/or signet to use it are the easiest to kill as you just avoid that first burst in the one of several ways listed several times and now they are easy prey.

We’ll also ignore that you can exploit the Ranger’s pet mechanic for easy stealth if you use OH dagger … though it seems that I see mostly Dagger+Pistol these days … which doesn’t require a hit to stealth.

Healing Abilities…

Thief Withdraw : 4,344 / 15s = 289.6 … also a 3/4s evade, a roll backwards, and cleanses movement imparing conditions.

Thief Hide In Shadows : 5240 / 30s = 174.6 … also gives stealth, removes damaging conditions, and provides regeneration for some additional healing that bumps its total healing up. Also synergizes quite well with stealth traits.

Signet of Malice : 3,275 / 15s = 218.3 … passive heals you when you attack … can also be spec’d to have a 12s cooldown, give might, give initiative (2 separate traits), etc.

Skelk Venom : 4210 / kitten = 100.s … also heals you for next 4 hits for 645 each = 2,580 more healing. Really a specialized heal in my mind (I’m not a personal fan of it) for those that love venoms and are traited for them.

Elementalist Ether Renewal is a 3.5 s channel that does 625 * 8 = 5,000 healing on a 15s cooldown so 5,000 / 18.5 = 270.3 … not even as efficient healing as withdraw and it can actually be interrupted … withdraw can’t. It’s one advantage over it is that it removes all conditions … 1 per pulse up to 8 pulses instead of just movement impairing conditions. Just a tip … this is a great one to headshot.

Elementalist Glyph of Elemental Harmony heals for 4894 / 25s = 195.76. This is worse than Withdraw and Signet of Malice and only barely better than Hide in Shadows. It’s primary bonus is boons and synergy with glyph traits … but Elementalist cantrips are all the rage these days.

Elementalist Signet of Restoration : 3,275 / 25s = 131. This is worse than everything except Skelk Venom when you’ve failed to land any of those 4 hits. It has a bonus similar to Malice … but its cooldown will never be 12s like Malice’s … nor can it be traited to reduce other ability’s cooldowns like Malice can be traited to provide Initiative.

Elementalist Arcane Brilliance : 3560 / 25 = 142.4. This is also worse than all your heals. It needs to hit 5 targets just to compete with the healing from Withdraw.

Now … Elementalist does have access to some nice heals via various weapons and traits … but so does Thief for traits … while stealthed as well. I’d much rather heal while not being hit by anything but blind AOEs/melee swings that I fail to avoid than heal while being attacked actually directly attacked by someone that can see me. Personal preference I guess.

Guardian Shelter : kitten / 30 = 151.8. Worse than your heals. Longer cast time. It’s defining feature is 2s of block.

Signet of Resolve : 8150 / 40 = 203.75. Only more efficient than Malice and Venom. Only removes 1 condition per second when not on cooldown. It doesn’t hold a candle to the on-demand condition removal of your heals nor their healing efficieny … not to mention their utility (evade + movement / stealth).

Guardian Litany of Wrath : 1640 / 30 = 54.6. This is horrible unless they can then inflict quite a bit of damage over the next 60s after it is cast. Even then, it only heals for 20% of that damage so unless they are hitting 5 targets, they are going to heal less per hit than what an actual hit does … quite likely while being hit for what an actual hit does. I’m not a fan. It’s like Thief’s venom heal … which I like better than this.

Guardian Healing Breeze : 3250 + 4 pulses of 650 = 5850 / 40s cooldown = 146.25. Not very efficient. It also has a greater than 2s channel so can be interrupted to be made even worse. It’s bonus is that it can heal nearby allies too.

Now, yes, guardian has their passive virtue heal and some other ways to heal via traits … but, again, so does Thief. Guardian also can’t heal while being unseen. Same as Elementalist.

So what was it that you were talking about with Thief not having some great heals? Perhaps you should actually look at the abilities.

If you daze a channeled ability, stunbreak won’t do a thing … good call. You’re so smart ;-)

Stability on a Ranger is from two sources:

• Signet of the Wild (60s cd)
• Rampage as One (120s cd)

Yeah, they’ll have stability all the time …
and it can’t be removed at all … especially not by a Thief …

Weapon skills … here we go,
Let’s look at Dagger since you’re talking about backstab …
We’ll use gw2skills for ease …

Thief Dagger Chain: 190/289/289 at 0.25 each … 2nd attack also gives endurance while third attack inflicts poison.

Ranger Greatsword AA Chain at 205/205/269 at 0.5/0.5/0.75 … only an evade on 3rd hit

Ranger Longbow AA at 329/285/249 every 0.75s

Yeah … your AA is bad eyeroll
—-
Thief Heartseeker 679/510/340 depending on target’s hp (25%/50%/otherwise) … 3 initiative … equal to 3s cooldown

Ranger Maul … 598 on a 6s cooldown

Ranger Rapid Fire … 1,340 on 10s cooldown with a 2.5s channel time … 12.5s (10.5 traited)

Yep, you do less but have 1/2 to less than 1/3 the cooldown and if used that many times your damage exceeds even when your target isn’t at <50% or <25% health.

Once your target is at that range, Heartseeker obliterates these other abilities … and Thieves are reknowned for their burst so it isn’t hard to get someone <50% … especially someone playing a glassy build … like is quite common right now.

Maul and Rapid Fire also doesn’t double as a closer and escape tool.
—-
Thief Shadowshot 425 damage and blind for 4 initiative … effective 4s cooldown. It’s also a closer and unblockable.

Thief Deathblossom 207 damage and up to 1,275 damage from bleeds. It’s also an evade and whirl finisher. Also 4 initiative … effective 4s cooldown.

Ranger Swoop is 374 damage, evades at the end, and has a 12s cooldown.

Ranger Hunter’s Shot is 142 and stealths … but only if it hits. It isn’t unblockable. It has a 12s cooldown.

Closest is swoop and Shadowshot. Shadowshot does more damage, blinds, and is unblockable. It can also be used more often. Yep … much worse, lol.

Thief Dancing Dagger does 175 damage and cripples for 3 initiative … effective 3s cooldown.

Thief Headshot does 85 and is a Daze for 4 initiative … effective 4s cooldown.

Ranger Counterattack is a block that can do 486 … 15s cooldown

Ranger Crippling Throw is a throw that does 374 and cripples … 15s cooldown (it’s the 2nd button press of Counterattack)

Ranger Point Blank Shot does 285 damage and knocks back a target 400 to 600 depending on how close they were.

This is apples and oranges. The closest is point blank versus the daze. Given that the Daze is more readily available … sure it fits the “weaker because spammable” … but it’d be quite OP to be a single spammable daze that is doing very good damage … every 4 or less seconds.
—-
Thief Cloak and Dagger does 340 for 6 initiative and Stealths you … synergizes stupidly well with several traits that remove conditions, heal, give might, etc.

Thief Black Powder does 85 for 6 initiative but creates a smoke field that pulses blind and can be combo’d with.

Ranger Hilt Bash does 187 on a 25s cooldown and is a daze (stun from behind).

Ranger Barrage is an AOE that does 1,704 and cripples over 12 hits (retal hurts!) that take 2.25s and it has a 30s cooldown.

Apples to Oranges again here. Not much to compare. Most people don’t eat the whole barrage as they’re smart enough to move out of it … often dodging, teleporting, etc.

If you want to compare Hilt Bash to your Headshot, it does more damage, but has an immensely higher cooldown.
——

Looking at this, yeah, you have some utility abilities … just like Ranger.
Your damage is only “weak because it’s spammable” if you’re using heartseeker on an opponent that is above 50% hp in which case it is comparable to rapid fire and maul. Once below 50%, it’s superior.

Your arguments here are still weak. I’ll proceed to the heals next … guardians and eles are the best, eh?

If you want to get good at Shatter builds as a Mesmer … I highly suggest watching some of Osicat’s videos … even the old ones.

One thing you’ll quite likely notice is that Osicat doesn’t stay in range of his opponent. He “jousts”. He goes in, tries to land some hits, and then gets back out.

Mesmer is a great class for “jousting” as you can summon Illusions that will continue applying pressure to your opponent even while you are out of range.

As far as that build he showed you … my personal preference on 4/4/0/0/6 build uses two swords instead of sword+pistol as:

• both swords benefit from the cooldown reduction
• sword #4 can block as well as daze
• iSwordsmen hits hard too … and you’ll be able to summon him more

I also like Staff better as the conditions, might, and fury can add up quickly. Those conditions also help get through builds with lots of protection. Phase Retreat is also an exceptionally good ability that can be downright ridiculous when mastered (check youtube for some videos w/ phase retreat tricks). The iWarlock hits hard too.

A thief that can’t dodge roll enough?! Free bag? We’ll ignore that your Thief should be able to dodge roll much more than any other class in the game. We’ll also ignore the built in evades and high mobility that could be used to get out of line of sight.

Additionally… last I checked, Dagger+Pistol thieves are very popular.

• What’s that magical #4 ability? OMG, it’s a daze.
• What would a daze do to a channeled ability? Oh yeah, stop it.
• How much initiative does it cost? 4
• How long does it take (before traits, etc.) to get that much initiative? 4 seconds

Wow, it looks like you have a counter that has half the “cooldown” of a traited Rapid Fire.

Now on to Defensive cooldowns …
Defensive cooldowns in this game aren’t needed to be cycled constantly at the same rate as attacks. Otherwise, the game would turn into turtle wars where only the truly stupid died. Complaining that your defensive cooldowns for anti-projectiles don’t match the projectile-based attacks is like complaining that condition applications are on shorter cooldowns than condition cleanses.

Instead of worrying only about not getting hit at all, you need to try to focus on mitigating the attack and then using that 8s to 10s to press the advantage. This is how a good player operates. They don’t just dance back and forth letting their opponent attack them while they go through dodge rolls and defensive cooldowns. They counter their opponent’s “key” attacks and attempt to land their own.

Please be sure to add your last sentence to your signature. When March rolls around and people have learned to adapt and it’s still around … I’ll be quite amused with you. More so than now.

I am enjoying these next 6 months as there are so many FotM Rangers running around that are glassy that it is a veritable buffet.

100% l2p issue.

jcbroe: I think you misunderstood my OP … probably my fault. I was just highlighting how much it adds with the least and most vitality possible in sPvP to show much it will always do as well as how much it can potentially do.

I 100% agree that dead enemies do less damage and that you can actually mitigate incoming damage if you exert enough pressure on your opponent to make them go on the defensive.

I also agree that it’s much better to dodge/block/evade/etc. attacks than to have them hit you. However, I’m under no illusions that I can avoid taking damage from opponents … especially in XvMe situations. Additionally, being able to take a hit or so allows you more time for cooldowns on evades/blocks as well as endurance for dodge rolls. Lastly, it synergizes well with having regeneration and other sources of healing.

30 in Wilderness Survival has been fairly common for Rangers and I’m not a big fan of Empathic Bond so I look more to Poison Master or Bark Skin if I’m going to take a GM WS trait.

Poison Mastery is very straightforward, so not worth talking about much in my opinion aside from additional poison up-time, additional applications, and 50% more DoT from it … all very straightforward … at least to me :-p

Hey genius, you can lock out other people’s skills… daze them.

Additionally, revealed is not stackable. It can only be refreshed … which would mean that you were being targeted by 2+ Rangers/Engineers that each have their particular utility … ones that aren’t taken commonly.

The fact that you think Thief skills are “weaker because they are spammy” is laughable. Come back with some numbers if you wish to continue to argue this.

The fact that you don’t think Thieves have any good heals is also ridiculous.

Stealth doesn’t prevent damage, but it definitely makes it harder for several weapons to do damage to the thief … try to hit a stealthed thief with a Ranger shortbow, Mesmer staff, etc. They can blindly fire one ability and that’s it … and there are plenty of other weapons just like that.

You are correct that you can’t hold/contest/capture a point while stealthed. But that doesn’t mean much if the thief kills you … or is just their team’s roamer.

If you think a Thief’s only defense is stealth … the impression you’re giving … then perhaps you should look at the acrobatics traitline as well as the built-in evades on various Thief weapon skills. Oh, and blind.

I’m sensing a great deal of l2p.

Kaz is quite correct. Come back when your class has a mechanic that can be continuously locked out for 60s due to the mechanics of the game.

Cam Ron.4170:

RF 1500 range, backstab melee. Can be completely nullified by a dodge or aegis. BS is inaccessible with revealed debuff. Reflects are not common, neither class I play has one. RF has a shorter cool-down than every reflect/projectile destroy in the game. The fact that RF is anywhere anywhere close to BS in damage is a joke

Not many reflects in game? Really? http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Reflect

Let’s look at blocks too … ones that say “projectiles only” : http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Block

And notice, while there are plenty, it is actually missing some like Elementalist’s Swirling Winds and Mesmer’s Phantasmal Warden.

1500 Range with 4 trait points invested. 1200 without.
Can be strafed at long range unless that is bumped up to 6 trait points for Read the Wind.

10s cooldown base, 8s traited … that’s another 4 traits in a different line.
With initiative at 1/s, I don’t see much of an issue there.

Also, let’s not downplay the lack of telegraph versus an ability with a 2.5s channel time.

As far as Aegis … let’s look at the sources of it … http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Aegis
Not that many. Additionally, a Thief can simply let stealth drop when they see Aegis on their target so that they aren’t revealed… then make plans to restealth … if it’s so important to their build … some are more acrobatic.

Being 2v1’d is dangerous … regardless of whether one is a ranging plinking at you.

In fact, several builds would actually prefer someone be shooting at them from range as the will simply counter that with line-of-sight, reflect, projectile destruction, etc.

Azure The Heartless.3261:

Tell me more about how I should learn to evade, reflect, and run up to a ranger sitting just inside of max range, picking me off at half HP while I fight a guard on point.

Oh, you’re complaining about being 2v1’d. Lol?

I just wish I could shoot Unicorns … need that precursor :-p

Aye, if I’m running a power build, I can dislodge a noob turret engineer.

If I’m running a condition build, that noob engineer is a pain in the butt as I can’t take out his turrets very quickly.

That is frustrating.

The biggest frustration though is that it lets such a low skill floor have such a large effect in the current sPvP format.

I’m a fan of, regardless of class, Player_Skill == Level_of_Effect.

Sure, the effects from each class/build/etc. can be different … but their level of overall effectiveness should be similar based on the skill of the player playing them.

I do not find someone who find a spot, casts 3 utilities and their elite and then runs around in circles pressing 2,3,4,5 and then auto-attack spamming as a very high level of player skill. As such, I don’t think it should be as effective as it is.

I’m not sure how to change that as the biggest issue is the ability to summon a large number of autonomous foes that behave largely the same regardless of how good/bad their owner is … and I don’t see engineer turrets going anywhere (nor other “pets”).