Guild Wars 2

Hahaha I have noticed lately today that I no longer have the damage to kill anything. A thief STOOD in my bristleback f2 that I had boosted with sic em. He still had half his life after it. I can no longer apply any reliable pressure to ellies. I cant disrupt the blocks of revenants and mesmers so they get to freely heal. Condi reapers are so kitten tanky that a boosted rapid fire with 25 stacks of might did less than 2k damage. Thats with a marauders amulet.

I hope you all like playing condi and bunker people. Because power atleast seems to be dead entirely. I just cant find a way to get hte damage I need to burst ANYTHING.

Edit: and Rangers Sustained damage has always been a joke.

Substance E.4852:

Razor.9872:

Swagger.1459:

shadowpass.4236:

Literally, every single time I see ranger in the patch notes, its never a slight shave to an overpowered skill. It’s a kittening nerf hammer on any skill that actually works well…

How many times have pets been nerfed so far?

How about reduce the healing on CA 2 and 3 instead of the condition clear (which is much more important), cooldown, and effects.

And just for the record, pets are still useless and die quickly in large scale WvW.

I really kittening hate the patches because nothing ever goes well for ranger. Disappointed again.

Core ranger is terrible. Pets are terrible. Druid is terrible. CA is terrible… Tons of things on other professions are terrible. Roles are terrible. Support roles are terrible… Professions in this game are completely carried by freedom of movement and decent targeting.

Somebody at Anet needs to start caring about the most important aspect of the game and bring us quality classes and roles to play.

Yeah, I’m frustrated again with Anet.

To be fair, I think you are exaggerating things a bit. I wouldn’t go as far as to say things are “terrible.”

Give them time…

At the rate they’re going, Druid won’t even be a viable healer by the time Raid 2 comes out and SS/BB will both be as bad as the Wyverns.

Its a good thing druid isn’t brought for its heals then. lets be honest. If it was just healing a frontline tempest could do that and do more damage than we do. The only reason were taken is because of frost spirit and grace of the land. The “Healing” is just something to make being a buff bot more palatable. If those two effects were removed tommorow. Every druid in “meta” raids would probably be replaced with tempests.

The bristleback burst can entirely be dodged now with 1 dodge >.< I am not sure thats worth the accuracy buff seeing its primary strength was the ability to pressure THROUGH active defense. That pressure is gone now and its just a not terrible bit of damage now. I am not certain how itl turn out in the end. But the fact that its so easy to mitigate now has me worried.

Due to the new aftercasts attached to sword mainhand Greatsword caught up a bit in terms of damage. However the SIGNIFICANT damage buff to axe offhand cuts that back a bit putting it at about the same level as before.

In the end sword axe will still be the weapon of choice for pure damage. And greatsword will be a more defensive option in favor of more evades for content where you expect to be under high pressure.

Unfortunately it doesn’t matter as far as raiding goes. As druids only exist to provide grace of the land and frost spirit (if it wasn’t for those two effects rangers abysmall dps would cause us to simply NEVER be taken. Healing isn’t really necessary and other classes can provide the minimum heals required while providing more direct damage).

In other words. Your ability to activate two effects matters more than literally everything else you do (I am still hoping anet changes that one day). Welcome to being a buff kitten.

Now SALT and depression aside, as long as you can enter CA on cooldown your weapon choice doesn’t matter too much so youl want to pick the one that fits the role. Most people now mostly camp staff. As it is the easiest way to get into CA and it provides healing while your outside of it.

If you find you max out on AF early anyway. Then going Sword Axe will probably be your best bet for raw damage (make good use of the offhand axe skills). However if your entering an area with high pressure. Consider the greatsword as a defensive measure and roll the evades to get through danger and maul on cooldown for decent damage.

Im not apposed to this. Partly because for me soft cc’s such as immob and chill and far more deadly to my on my character than bleeds and burning usually. This change (atleast from how I am reading it) means that what forms of clear a class has available would affect how they play.

For example Druid atm has two primary forms of condi clear. Druidic Clarity and the Seeds from glyph use and CA #2.

With this change Druidic Clarity could be “Remove all Impairments on your character” to go in line with its nature as a stun break yet it wouldn’t save the druid if he got loaded with condis. Meanwhile the seeds would only affect conditions. Seperating the two forms of condi clear can go a long way towards redirecting how the class is played on a mechanical level.

This change could also affect runes like Runes of the Soldier/Trooper. Causing it to affect Impairments allowing more reliable freedom of movement. (You dont have to worry about it cleansing that 1 stack of bleed instead of the 9 seconds of weakness)

I would be fine with this. It would mean that as a person makes a condition resistant build. They aren’t necessarily immune to lockdown. This COULD allow us to bring back some of the old bunker builds (Builds that are very resistant to damage but with this change can be locked down). And even some of the bruiser builds that have fallen out of the meta (Builds with a resistance to impairment but can be overloaded if they aren’t careful)

Of course thats a what if as far as what I am saying goes. But I agree with the base concept though it definitely seems like it would be alot of work to re balance certain runes and traits.

Editing rather than posting again: One issue I can see with this is in WvW. Hammer trains are very reliant on hte ability to clear movement impairing conditions. Anet would have to be EXTREMELY careful not to redirect too many abilities towards dealing only with conditions. Frontline classes like guardians would NEED to retain the ability to deal with both types of conditions at the same time. So the potential to gain the same level of coverage they have now is pretty necessary or a chill field becomes more dangerous than a meteor shower or well bomb.

UmbraNoctis.1907:

Some pets are very easy to kill. That’s why they are rarely used (in PvP). Dead pet = useless pet. And it is not neccessary to kill the pets to kill the ranger/druid. If you make pets easier to kill, you can basically delete them.

No other class can lose access to its class mechanic for up to 60 seconds.

Unfortunately the people here don’t care. They honestly don’t care how much damage they do to the ranger class as a whole with there suggestions. They don’t care that what their suggesting would ultimately kill the ranger. They don’t care how many of our weapons/traits/and control combos work BECAUSE the pets are active. They don’t care that the smokescale and bristleback were likely introduced BECAUSE rangers need reliable pets in order to function in PvP. They don’t care that anyone on the level of their current suggestions would entirely destroy the ranger in every game mode. They don’t care that a massive example of this is WvW. Where pets can die very quickly which has relegated ranger entirely into a backroll and made them the “joke class” of the entire game mode. They don’t care that a 95% damage reduction was added to ranger pets in PvE when they aren’t the specific target of abilities because rangers could not keep the only reliable pets they had alive even in builds dedicated towards the use of pets.

They don’t care that in order for our only two reliable pets in the entire game to do decent damage two entire traitlines, our heal skill, and our elite skill are predetermined. They don’t care that rangers damage overall is very poor even in a dedicated damage loadout. Relegating rangers to a burst damage roll that follows an incredibly predictable pattern based on pet swapping. (Pet swap Smoke Assault + rangers attacks/ Pet Swap Spike Barrage + rangers attacks. Possibly even burning the heal skill in order to boost the damage because the ranger knows they will have to wait over 10 seconds for another reliable damage source because ranger dps is the second worse in the game even in our top damage build).

They don’t care that even a well played ranger does less damage in a PvP match than a poorly played reaper. They don’t care that the only reason the ranger feels dangerous is because there damage happens quickly in a difficult to mitigate form. And if they get rid of that the ranger loses the ability to kill even a glass player.

They just don’t care. They see things only form their perspective. Regardless of damage their opinions can cause.

Youl notice they aren’t offering anything in return for what they want taken away. Their is no real talk about giving ranger access to the massive amount of burst a FREQUENTLY dead pet will cost them. They don’t talk about the affect of such a health reduction on abilities such as Guard, Protect Me, and the trait empathic bond. All of which will be harmed by this. They don’t talk about the loss of damage when the ranger is forced to cancel his pets attacks in the middle of Sic Em or Strength of the Pack’s duration.

Because most of them didn’t bother to actually look at the class other than how it affects them.

Because the game has taught them that if they cry long enough they will eventually get what they want. And they want to take from the ranger without offering anything in return. While putting little thought into how damaged they will make a class that is inherintly reliant on their class mechanic not just for damage but pure survivability.

Maybe if they stopped to actually LOOK at how the ranger and even the druid functions they would understand these things. But then if they did that they wouldn’t have any issue with rangers or druids now would they. Because they would see just how predictable our damage is. And how easy it is to litteraly kittening step to side when the bristleback is firing.

Eurantien.4632:

If trooper runes condi cleared teammates with ranger shouts I would be more keen on running it. And maybe now with the slick shoes nerf I could get away with 5 shouts vs a coordinated team but I still don’t think it would be as efficient as having some better "get out jail free " cards on my bar besides just screaming at people. + the reduced uptime on CF would be brutal.

Besides, me and sic em. Isn’t likely to happen.

Hahahaha fair enough :P. Pretty good concerns. Sadly as long as druid is mandatory a full 5 shout ranger will never function against coordinated team even I recognize that. Anet got so close with the changes to them. But as long as ranger is forced to run druid for the basic sustain it needs and as long as team support is required on every build in the meta the shouts just aren’t gonna be enough on their own u.u.

(Either MM and WK would work so much better with a shout beast mastery build. But Druidic Clarity and Celestial Avatar are just mandatory if a ranger wants any chance of surviving any form of coordinated attack u.u)

Maybe with the next elite spec? (lol yeah right)

Eurantien.4632:

Yeah, playing in 5 v 5 I can’t run my full offense lb/gs skirm/marks/druid necessarily. Others can play rev or other dps classes which makes me someone who can and often needs to be the one on the point or outnumbered. Besides, tanky druid -> pets that can blow people up -> good combo. But yeah I get it haha. Description gave me a good laugh

Im just waitng for Eurantien to give in to the glory that is full 5 shout NM BM Druid GS Longbow trooper and no S&R. All I need is a commanders amulet and ill spread a reign of terror the likes of which has never been seen in PvP. Join me Eurantien. Come to the loud side of the build editor.

Let me be clear. I am not for or against this idea one way or the other. I will leave wvw development to the dev team in charge and just offer my 2 cents. What I HATE are hypocritical posts that do nothing but derail a thread.

@Puck I love how your only seeing what you want to see and ignoring everything else>.<.

You keep saying gimmick while ignoring that said gimmick is already in ABL. The BL that everyone one was screaming to get back. In the form of trebs on NE and NW tower. This already exists. Comparing it to skyhammer is just your attempt to divert the topic by comparing it to something and invoking a negative emotion THROUGH that comparison. You can do better than that. If your gonna make a comparison lets stick to honest ones alright?

As for makiong it available at a certian tier. Their is a few things your either missing or choosing to ignore.

A: It probably can only hit garrison due to the layout of the map and the nature of the other keeps. Meaning it can only be used to assault garrison. Making it VERY hard to “abuse” because of the second part.

B: Keeping it locked till a certain tier does 2 things. One it prevents a high power server from just nabbing both towers nad force upgrading them. They will have to defend not only those towers but also the supply camps and the yaks running to them. This strecthes out the forces of the group attempting for upgrade them. This gives the defenders of garrison ALOT of targets they can hit in order to slow down/stop the upgrades entirely.

5 roamers could stop the process entirely.

The other thing it does is makes it so that a team that loses map control (say they got night capped and there BL was flipped entirely) has a starting point towards retaking garrison. They can hit the side towers and camps and start working on those cannons. If they guard the camps/towers/yaks then you will need more than the origianl 5 roamers to stop them. Meaning that the foreign group will have to send out troops which will leave garrison vulnerable. Making it easier to take by traditional means.

These towers would take a pretty big commitment by the owners to utilize effectively. If they succeed garrison is vulnerable. If they fail its because there were fights. Everyone wins.

Puck.9612:

TallBarr.2184:

Jim Hunter.6821:

They can add as many sky hammers and Dino bullkitten as you’d like as long as they never bring the map back to wvw. I’m sure pve players would love having some stupid gimmicky map added to the silver wastes area, or they can rotate it with eotm.
Just keep that stupidity out of WvW.

I’m pretty sure casual wvw players like you need to learn how to adapt to changes. These cannons would work as any other siege we currently have and make the towers relevant with their placement.

Work like any other siege……
except you don’t have to build them, so no supply management
will have much farther range than other siege so it can’t be countered the way trebs can in alpine

It sounds like another gimmick that will allow the dbl lovers to avoid fighting the same way the dino skyhammer was. Go back to eotm.

People are doing the exact same thing in ABL right now. You do have to build them if you bothered to read other peoples posts. Its a blueprint that becomes available when the tower reaches a certain tier. Like a cannon emplacement. It would still probably cost a tower full of supply so it would take TIME and resources to build that either a group of players would work together to make or an individual would take a long time to make.

Super Cannons would work exactly the same way that a treb inside the NE and NW towers of ABL do right now. And would work to draw people out of garrison the way they do right now.

Take the time to read what other people are righting before replying. Or you just end up making yourself sound like a hypocrite. As for trebs being able to be countered in alpine. Please. Unless you build shield gens you can’t get a treb up fast enough to stop trebs from another tower from killing you. And if both sides DO get shield gens up its just a case of “well guess we wait till the other one gets bored”.

So let me put it this way. Super Cannon on the towers would do more to draw people out into the field and start a fight. Instead of having two emplacements shoot at eachother. Or relying on invulnerable treb bug to take back the towers.

Again. None of your points hold up to scrutiny here.

Edit: Edited out annoying caps. My bad

Reverence.6915:

I’m gonna be blunt. I don’t really care how WvW is scored. What I want out of any scoring and reward system is for incentives for players to come out and fight at all hours of the day. If it disincentivises players from my time zone to play, then I’m basically going to leave GW2 because no fights = no enjoyment = no point playing the game.

We just had a whole bunch of people come back to the game due to recent stability change and alpine map rotation. Don’t take backward steps ANet.

The PPT and PPK scaling seems to be based on the current activity of the specific map. So getting more people into and fighting inside those maps will increase the PPT and PPK from what im reading. What that means is that as long as you aren’t karma training you will generate the same ammount of PPT and PPK or atleast almost as much. HOWEVER. If you are rolling over a borderlands when the other side simply doesn’t have the numbers to even TRY to stop you. Then you will produce less PPK and PPT. Because your actions will largely be taking undefended towers and keeps.

This change should only heavily affect those groups that commit large scale night time karma training which can swing matches into a specific servers favor simply because the other two don’t have the coverage to fight them. They will still get SOMETHING for it. But it won’t be the free tens of thousands of war score they generate now.

Guard features heavily into my build. I use it to build might stacks for myself and my pet to prepare for a burst. To cover for an ally thats being ganked or yolo’d on.

I also use it on myself in order to bait classes like thieves and warriors into being overconfident (Most players only see that there doing damage so they keep attacking. They don’t realize that all there doing is 50% of htere normal damage and that suddenly the people there hitting are hitting them back twice as hard now)

Guard is in my opinion currently the strongest shout. The sheer potential of this skill is awesome. A beast master rangers damage is very reliant on his ability to buff non only himself but also his pet. Before guard we needed to take marksmanship over druid if we wanted to get the missing might stacks we need. Guard gives us an additional might source while also acting as a defensive cooldown.

The 50% damage transfer is all you need as long as you are positioning yourself correctly. Its more than enough to turn the tides on any power build that chooses to come after you. And if your positioned right theyl only be able to come at you one at a time. This is espcially true in WvW where you have a very large kiting radius you can make use of. Its fairly often that I can kite and kill one opponent and use guard near the end of that fight to remight myself and my pet in order to start burning down his ally.

Quite frankly. Its a very VERY good skill. Just most people only see it for it 50% damage reduction and convince themselves its inferior to signet of stone.

Making full use of this utility (NM and BM combined allows for this skill to generate FIFTY stacks of might 25 for you and 25 for your pet as long as you know what attacks to let yourself take damage from and what you have to dodge anyway.)

I view this skill as a “Toeing the line” ability where you allow yourself to take the damage of low dmg per hit multi hit abilities in order to retaliate. For example ill stand in a tempests air overload with this skill then turn around and maul him for 9k with all the might stacks he gave me for the pitiful damage he dealt. Combine that with a smoke assault from a fully buffed smokescale and it is usually enough to force them off me or even enable me to kill them if they didn’t have obsidian flesh up.

What some people don’t realize is that this skill even generates might on the hits the pet takes directly. So you can even use this skill even if its just the pet standing getting clipped by aoes as long as you know you have another defensive backup ready.

Guard is in my opinion one of the best utilities we have. Because while it has an obvious support based purpose it also allows for retaliation through offensive measures. But the sacrifical nature of the skill forces the ranger to be aware of when and how hes using it in order to make the best of it.

Sorry wen’t on a bit of a rant there I just REALLY like this skill

Tl:DR. Guard is a VERY good skill with a wide range of uses due to its duel nature allowing it to be useful for damage,defensive, and support based builds effectively based entirely on the situational awareness and mechanical understanding of the player using it. With trait investment this skill gains yet a third purpose further enabling its use in pretty much every mode of content.

Was playing in EBG when someone struck gold on a pretty good idea for a SMC based achievement.

“Walls/Doors Keep the bags out” : Succesfully defend SMC x times when all walls and doors are destroyed.

Rewards: 5g and the title “The Farmer”

@Community. Thoughts?

StickerHappy.8052:

Shadelang.3012:

StickerHappy.8052:

LughLongArm.5460:

OGDeadHead.8326:

LughLongArm.5460:

Dont agree, AF is fine. Builds must have some trade off, I dont think druids that invest 0 in tools that generate AF(and we have tons of thouse) should have rapid acsess to CA.

This list: @StickerHappy.8052

“Staff
Perma Regen
SotW”

doesnt include- TU, Rune of the Dolyak, natural healing trait, mango pie food(outside pvp) etc..

This list: @Tragic Positive.9356
“BM
Traited Healing Spring
Staff”
Doesnt include: fren hound, windbornen notes, water rune, other regen ranger traits , traited water spirit etc..

So basiclly you dont want to explore our less “meta options”, use the same pets(brist/smoke) same triats like(druidic clarity ) and complain about limited build options?

I don’t think runes, sigils or consumables should be taken into consideration when it comes to how often we should be able to use our specialization mechanic. Also, don’t forget CA is already gated by icd.

Why not? runes, sigils or consumables are part of the game and can be part of a build. Its another options if you decide not to go one of the options above which are not runes, sigils or consumables. the 10 sec icd is only to denay some builds that can abuse some of the CA traits every 5 sec wich is possible if you build for it.

CA mechanic is not perfect, but its not due to lack of options to regenerate AF.

SO you are telling me, you also have to limit your sigil choices?

You want me to get sigils that generate AF and kitten a build?

One of the biggest issues with PvP and even WvW to an extent atm is that many builds can dip there hands into every pot without making sacrifices. Many of the Elite specs themselves are examples of this. Druid in its current form has very few relative limitations yet it provides massive sustain and control covering the core rangers only weaknesses without significant sacrifice.

There has to be a draw back when taking druid. At the moment the variance in astral force gain between different druid builds is the only variant. Which is why druid is in nearly every top ranger build at this time.

Don’t act like making a minor investment in order to gain access to druids massively powerful effects that cover the core classes weaknesses is some kind of huge drawback. Its not. If anything. Taking druid should FORCEFULLY cost you significant damage output. Maybe then we would see an actual difference between builds.

But since it doesn’t you can use any number of methods to generate AF. There are almost a dozen methods I can think of off the top of my head that will fill your AF nearly on cooldown. And more that will still provide you a steady stream (though they won’t be as fast). Take any of them. And give something up in return. Having everything you could ever want in a build is a bad design philosophy.

Edit: Edited to be less obnoxious to read.

Please do provide a build that does not use NM or BM that can be used in competitive pvp matches and without staff.

WS is also required for core ranger because 2 of our best condition removal options is there. Which I think is one of the glaring problems for druid/core ranger.

You simply cannot afford to take any other trait other than Druidic Clarity if you do not take WS for removal.

That doesn’t mean we need to make AF more accessible. It means we need make the tools that AREN’T tied to druid comparable. Ive said it before and ill say it again. The more we balance under the assumption that druid is taken. The more druid becomes mandatory to get purely standard results. We don’t buff druid. We buff the OTHER playstyles so that maybe one day we can have more than one way to play this game at anything approaching a high level.

The dream for me would be having there be a significant difference when people say “Oh we need a ranger for this group” and “Oh we need a druid for this group” as it is there is only druid.

Editing rather than making another post: Instead of making druid more accessible for even MORE builds. We should make it so that the other builds don’t need druid to function at even a basic level of compotency.

StickerHappy.8052:

LughLongArm.5460:

OGDeadHead.8326:

LughLongArm.5460:

Dont agree, AF is fine. Builds must have some trade off, I dont think druids that invest 0 in tools that generate AF(and we have tons of thouse) should have rapid acsess to CA.

This list: @StickerHappy.8052

“Staff
Perma Regen
SotW”

doesnt include- TU, Rune of the Dolyak, natural healing trait, mango pie food(outside pvp) etc..

This list: @Tragic Positive.9356
“BM
Traited Healing Spring
Staff”
Doesnt include: fren hound, windbornen notes, water rune, other regen ranger traits , traited water spirit etc..

So basiclly you dont want to explore our less “meta options”, use the same pets(brist/smoke) same triats like(druidic clarity ) and complain about limited build options?

I don’t think runes, sigils or consumables should be taken into consideration when it comes to how often we should be able to use our specialization mechanic. Also, don’t forget CA is already gated by icd.

Why not? runes, sigils or consumables are part of the game and can be part of a build. Its another options if you decide not to go one of the options above which are not runes, sigils or consumables. the 10 sec icd is only to denay some builds that can abuse some of the CA traits every 5 sec wich is possible if you build for it.

CA mechanic is not perfect, but its not due to lack of options to regenerate AF.

SO you are telling me, you also have to limit your sigil choices?

You want me to get sigils that generate AF and kitten a build?

One of the biggest issues with PvP and even WvW to an extent atm is that many builds can dip there hands into every pot without making sacrifices. Many of the Elite specs themselves are examples of this. Druid in its current form has very few relative limitations yet it provides massive sustain and control covering the core rangers only weaknesses without significant sacrifice.

There has to be a draw back when taking druid. At the moment the variance in astral force gain between different druid builds is the only variant. Which is why druid is in nearly every top ranger build at this time.

Don’t act like making a minor investment in order to gain access to druids massively powerful effects that cover the core classes weaknesses is some kind of huge drawback. Its not. If anything. Taking druid should FORCEFULLY cost you significant damage output. Maybe then we would see an actual difference between builds.

But since it doesn’t you can use any number of methods to generate AF. There are almost a dozen methods I can think of off the top of my head that will fill your AF nearly on cooldown. And more that will still provide you a steady stream (though they won’t be as fast). Take any of them. And give something up in return. Having everything you could ever want in a build is a bad design philosophy.

Edit: Edited to be less obnoxious to read.

Guys. This thread is a YEAR OLD. Make a new one.

@Cruel Seriously man? How far back did you go to necro this kitten? You could have just made a new thread to discuss the issue instead of bringing this thing back form the grave. This is past rotting even the bones are dust.

#Fixthewyverns

15 Wyverns were required to make this message. Because there attack speed is too kitten slow to do it alone.

I would be careful about nerfing the bristleback f2 damage any further. It is getting very close to not worth using over the auto attack.

To put it into perspective remember how Longbow used to work? Before longbow got its buffs rapid fire did so little damage compared the time it took to cast that it was actually a dps loss over long range shot. And was only used at close range as a method of trying to keep your character on target with a class that could teleport or whirl through your hitbox

Bristleback f2 is already not worth using at long range due to its shotgun like spread on its projectiles (they don’t track and they fire in a spreading cone becoming more inaccurate the further away they are. You can test this on golems.) The damage becomes even worse if the target is moving at long range. Simply strafing slightly left or right causes the attacks to miss as your closing on the ranger.

What this means is that birstleback f2 is ALREADY only worth using at close range. This isn’t counting the heavy precast and aftercast animations attached to the skill.

I would argue that right now. Bristleback f2 is only worth using in PvP as a baited skill (you trick someone into coming into melee with you while the f2 is pre firing).

If we nerf the damage even further. It simply won’t be worth using over allowing the pet to continue its auto attack. Which is a TRACKING projectile that still hits hard.

Any more nerfs to the birstleback. And we run a real risk of it ending up how the longbow was pre buffs. I feel many people don’t remember just how terrible a weapon it was.

Edit: Note this is again from a PvP perspective. PvE is quite different due to the average size of enemy hitboxes.

Dahkeus.8243:

Honestly, I think Druid is in a really good place and doesn’t need to be nerfed. However, core ranger needs help to become a viable damage-dealing alternative to druid.

I think if there were some good damage buffs put into trait lines generally not associated with druid builds, there would be incentive for players to go with a 3 core ranger trait DPS build.

I feel the issue isn’t our damage. Though damage boosts would be nice I don’t think we actually need them do to the nature of our burst skills.

We do enough damage to kill our targets. ESPECIALLY when specced for it.

The biggest issue is that those builds have one critical thing that druid provides almost instantly. The ability to get out of a lockdown. Similar to necros pre reaper the easiest way to kill a ranger was just to gank it. Signet of Stone is mandatory for core ranger buidls just because a ranger CAN’T get away from a gank. They can delay the death. But if the pressure continues they WILL die.

Druid gives you the ability to stop a gank. Druidic Clarity, Celestial Shadow, Glyph of Tides, Lunar Impact, Natural Convergence. FIVE tools that a druid has very easy access to that either stop you from getting locked down, give you the ability to disengage, or disrupt,counter pressure gank attempts.

The biggest vulnerability as a ranger and druid gives SO MUCH to cover for that. The healing is IMO the LEAST of the druids strengths when it comes to build making.

None of the other trait lines even come close to offering the same level of coverage. Not even slightly.

The only way I can see base ranger being viable again. Is not through damage increases. But by giving other trait lines the tools necessary to survive when they are so much as looked at without hiding behind a skill whos cooldown is long enough they can just keep hitting you and waiting for it to end.

Edit: Note this is from a PvP perspective. As far as PvE goes. We will NEVER get personnel damage on par with other classes as long as spotter, frost spirit, and grace of the land exist. Our ability to provide damage buffs IS our dps contribution. Until those are gone we won’t get anything on the level of most other classes. Just like mesmers and alactrity/quickness.

Edit2: Also druid is our only truly reliable method of condi clear that can’t just be chewed through bit by bit.

You may want to specify what game mode.

Main is ranger for all three for me.

Commanders Stats for WvW

Zerk/Marauder for PvE

PvP is Paladins/Demolishers

Swagger.1459:

Locking a player out of their own skill set for 10 seconds is not acceptable in pvp environments.

Moa needs to be trashed completely.

And what would you reccomend? Just taking away an elite skill for an entire class? What would you give them in return? I hope youve got some ideas for elite skills that fulfill similar roles to fill the gap youd create. Ones strong enough to fulfill similar purposes without being so strong we have the same issue.

Or did you just comment without actually putting any thought into it except for your own personnel dislike of the skill?

@Soothsayer

1) It’s a control utility. Not a direct attack. If it was meant to kill a player. That was what it would do. It CAN lead to a players death. But that is produced by additional affects outside of the use of Moa. What this skill does on its own. Is turn someone into a moa and reduce there ability to interact with the battle around them. That IS what the skill does directly. What players choose to perceive it as has little bearing on the conversation. What they DO with the skill is more relevant. And the skill can be used any number of ways. Not just offensively.

2) Buffing and improving the moa state is the most effective way of reworking the skill without increasing the cooldown or lowering the duration or reworking its animation. I.E. Its the most direct way of tackling a perceived issue without directly harming the mesmers ability to use the skill.

3) I agree that people find it frustrating when there Moa’d And moa will always leave a bad taste in the victims mouth. But it doesn’t actually have to be an unfun skill in general. You CAN make it so that the moa’d player feels less that useless for the duration. The Moa skill should reduce the players ability to interact with the fight. As it is apparently designed to unless a developer wants to step in and correct me. The best way of doing that is by improving the counter play that is presented to the player while under the effects of the skill. The game actually does ive you tools with which to deal with combat. But all but one of them are useless. And even the last one only buys you time hoping that the gank waiting for you got distracted by something else.

4) You continuously refer to the duration in many of your posts. Often hinting that this is where you want any potential rework to take place. But I feel that would cause more harm to the skill that my proposed changes. While it is true that it is not a 100% kill skill. It is a 100% something else skill. It is a 100% decap skill. When under the effects of Moa. You WILL give up the point. The only time a moa kills a mesmer at this time is if the memser is at less that 5% health and is overconfident. In which case he would have died either way.

5) Engineers have NOTHING to do with this for multiple reasons. They can only Moa you ONCE. And there Moa lasts barely enough time to cause the player to panic before it is gone again. It is used more to take people out of transformations than as a control skill. Also its pretty obvious when its an engi moa vs a mesmer moa. For the above stated reason. As for the rest of your post. Again. The engineer has nothing to do with this conversation and I feel like your stretching for justification at this point.

6) Whether you use it or not has no basis on this discussion. Also this isn’t about a CS rework. Im actually trying to AVOID that with this post. I thought you would have realized that by now but your statements at multiple points in your posts say that you don’t. Despite that it was in my OP. The rest of your post is rambling and has little to no basis on the conversation.

7) I…do you STILL not understand the entire point of my OP? I am attempting to do exactly what you stated. Tread carefully. My entire POINT in this post is to find a way to rework this skill so that it is less oppressive while STILL retaining the core usefullness and purpose of the skill and NOT completely destroying the playstyles of both mesmers and chronomancers that have built around it.

@Soothsayer. The part about “You aren’t meant to survive Moa” is kind of concerning for me on a mentallity level. Because as far as my understanding of the skill goes. Its purpose is to remove a specific target as a significant threat. Not necessarily kill them. That as far as I can tell and have read is why it was allowed to have no way of breaking the transformation once struck by it. What that tells me is that it was be design meant to be survivable. And have a significant chance of doing so outside of a coordinated gank scenario. You use Moa on either the high profile threat in the fight to stop them from having an impact or someone who is ALREADY vulnerable and unable to act against it.

I feel part of our disagreement is on what the purpose of the skill is. In my eyes its a very powerful control skill. It has zero damage component built into it which allows for it to be unbreakable. Any damage the Moa’d player takes has to come from follow up skills. And the Moa’d player is SUPPOSED to have the ability to fight back to some degree against it.

Atleast thats as far as my own personal understanding of the skill goes. I don’t believe I have seen a developer post on its intended purpose before. If you have one though please link it for me it would likely make this discussion ALOT simpler.

My comment on it being a bunker killer was only reffering to its PAST uses. I even said I wasn’t going into details because the discussion was a waste of time and I was only using it as an example. I feel how it is currently being used is much more in line with what I believe to be its intended purpose. A method of removing a target as a threat for a specific amount of time.

When I say to remove a player from the game. I don’t mean something like phasing him out of reality. But instead removing him from any significant form of play for a specific period of time. Which I believe is Moa’s intended purpose and I flat out agree with it as a healthy skill.

The issue is with the current double Moa casts that people tend to complain about. Both of us seem to agree that this is the only issue.

As far as I can see there are only a few ways this can change.

Moa gets reduced duration <— this harms the base mesmer as well

Moa gets increased cooldowns <—- this also harms the base mesmer as well

Moa can no longer be reset by continuum split <—- this sets a unpleasent precedent by creating a skill that simply doesn’t function together with a class mechanic and I believe this is the WORST way to go.

Elite skills can no longer be reset by continuum split <—- this hurts the entire chronomancer sub class and harms skills that AREN’T an issue.

Moa can be broken out of. <—- This I feel absolutely should not happen. As it makes this elite skill trivial and will likely render it unused. The only case in which this MIGHT be fair is if its another player that has to perform an aoe stunbreak to release the moa’d player. (Something like protect me’s aoe stunbreak on ranger or a tempests air shout). Because that would take coordination between multiple players to pull off.

Or we change something about the Moa itself. This is the direction I am trying to go. It affects both the mesmer and the chronomancer evenly. However it does not HARM either’s ability to use moa or their uptime on moa. Nor does it remove the original purpose of the skill (which as I said I would need to see a red post on the subject to be sure of but from the skills description and its mechanics it SEEMS to be to heavily reduce the impact a specific player has on the fight for a short time).

I desire an answer to a perceived issue that does not shaft either the mesmer or the chronomancer. This is the only direction I can think of that would work.

@Soothsayer I started to make an initial reply but it ended up garbled and obnoxious to read so im just gonna start over and do this paragraph by paragraph.

While its true that its possible to survive while in Moa. The harshest part of moa is that there is no way to break the form. Unlike every other elite skill in the game once you are actually under its effects your trapped in it. Lich, Rampage, and Dragons Maw for example are all high profile elites with potentially similar levels of impact on the field. What these and all other elites have in common is that these can be interacted with and broken free of AFTER they have begun. Moa is the only exception out of our entire list of elite skills. Also to claim that the animation cast time is a major drawback is kind of silly. As that 1 second animation is often EASILY covered by the general havoc of team fights…and stealth.

As for blocks blinds and dodges. Most other elites also have those drawbacks and the ones that don’t have OTHER weaknesses. Moa isn’t special here. Don’t try to act like it is.

In your next paragraph you admit that Moa will most likely result in the targets death in a team fight. While I agree that its not 100%. When it comes to coordinated bursts its pretty kitten close. Moa has LONG had a reputation as a bunker killer. In the past it and lich form were the primary methods of nuking down bunkers in the old metas. But that isn’t relevant to the discussion so I won’t go into detail and waste both our times and that of other people that have to read this. As for mesmers not having enough to take you down. Getting moa’d when you have 12 stacks of torment on you is a death sentence. You WILL be running away when its active.

On your third paragraph you insinuate that being Polymorphed would somehow magically be a positive thing for the victim with these changes. Which… Well I honestly can’t believe you tried to take that stance. You lose your defensive traits, your class mechanics, your weapon skills, Your control skills, you utility skills, and even your elite skills. Even PRETENDING that giving a SLIGHTLY improved toolset to the victim when under the effects of what amounts to an unbreakable control skill will somehow make them able to fight even CLOSE to evenly with the caster is ludicrous. And its not giving them extra abilities. Its improving outdated ones that weren’t adjusted with the flow of the game. Just like ANY skill has to be to stay relevant.

As for your last point in that paragraph. Moa form last I checked was to remove someone as a significant threat. Even with the changes it will do exactly that. A skill that completely removes a player form the game is unhealthy. Leaving them with A tool to disrupt the flow of battle is perfectly in order. Im not saying Moa should get 5x its current HP with loads of toughness stability and resistance. You should still be vulnerable. But not necessarily completely unable to act. (And with its current skill set most of those skills might as well not exist).

On to your last paragraph. “It’s more than a double elite problem”….okay whats the problem then you don’t clarify here at all.

“No one is complaining about double Mass Invisibilty, or double Time Warp or the double regular utilities.” Yes because being hit by those doesn’t make you completely unable to interact with the field for massive amounts of time with 0 ability to break out of it. Unless your suggesting we make moa stunbreakable. Lol id love to see how the rest of the community likes THAT idea.

“All of this fuss is over Moa, Before this season. no one cared about continuum shift.”…I am glad we agree? Thats kind of the entire point of my OP? Thank you?

“It was the double Moa that put this discussion in full view”. Again im glad we could see eye to eye?

Soothsayer.9206:

You all realize that being polymorphed is supposed to be bad and lead to your demise. Could it use some balancing, sure (e.g. perhaps reduce the polymorph time and cd to match). So, adding benefits to being polymorphed is an oxymoron. Furthermore, no one likes being transformed at all, in the end, adding “benefits” to polymorphed state will probably not alleviate all the complaining by the “polymorphee(s)” anyway.

Hahaha. The thing is I don’t give a kitten about the complaints of the Polymorphee.. All I am seeing is valid concerns about the use of double elites. However the only one that is truly out of line is the Moa. My main reason for this was to find a way to balance out the effects of double moa without doing something that would cause harm to the playstyle of the mesmer himself.

It still IS a bad thing even with changes to the moa itself. You lose your weapons. Your utility skills. Your class mechanics. All those traits that keep you alive. There all gone. Adding a Minor ability to fight back against it is well in line with how Moa already works. It still has attacks and movement skills. All I am suggesting is a change to the forms skills. Not how the Moa itself will affect the player.

When using this as a coordianted gank method. The player is gonna be just as dead whether he recieves these buffs or not. All these changes would do would give the moa’d player a chance to fight back once there hit by it.

My goal was to make moa Slightly less of a “I Win” button outside of coordinated burst situations without harming the mesmers ability to Moa or the frequency at which it CAN Moa.

So would these changes work for you? How about the mesmer mains here? Feel free to speak up. How would you feel if the person you Moa’d had more capability to be annoying while moad. Still locked out of the things they are currently locked out of. But more likely to be able to disrupt you and your team if you get overconfident.

It’s an interesting concept. As far as your ranger boost goes. In order for it to fit thematically with ranger. That IS a difficult decision.

I play a BM focused build. So I would inherintly focus on things like reduced pet f2 and special attack cooldowns. Meaning a full ranger could get more use from there primary class mechanic. Where as druids will have two class mechanics. But I feel that wouldn’t really change much ultimately unless it was so significant that it would probably be OP.

Druid just offers too much. Between Druidic Clarity Celestial Shadow and Ancestral seeds its almost impossible for me to justify taking Druid out of my build.

It isn’t even the healing of druid that causes me to take it. Its the CC and Utility that both solve the core issues of ranger.

If I was to suggest something that would enable ranger to not have to take druid. It would be a mechanic that allows it to get out of being gank locked like druid does. I swear for me at least thats the only reason I use it in PvP is to disengage. The ability to get out of immob/chill/stuns and then stealth away is pretty much what rangers HAVE to have to survive in the current meta.

Maybe something like the ability to break out of things like immobilize when we dodge roll. It would still cost us endurance but it might actually give rangers a tool to not get tied down without being forced into our “support” line.

Eastcorn.5901:

I approve, but only because I love the idea of a freshly Moa’d player turning around and pecking the enemy Mesmer to death.

That may or may not have had some effect on my reasoning “cough”

Why not improve the capabilities of the Moa form itself? So that the player while still at a MASSIVE disadvantage while in moa form can atleast make a more significant struggle. Especially considering the potential duration of the dreaded double Moa.

Increase the range on the 2 skill so that it can leap further distances.

Increase the animation speed of the 3 skill and increase its damage slightly.

Add a daze effect to the 4 skill (The screech) for the duration that the player is rooted during the cast.

This way the player while loosing access to his weapons, utilties, elite and even his class mechanic. Can still have an impact even if its just as a more “Significant” annoyance.

What do yall think?

Eagelseye.6312:

Ubik.8315:

Eagelseye.6312:

Therefore, you need to remove solo queue. Players who wish to play PvP have to enter in a team of five as premades. You may keep entering in team of two and three but then the matchmaking needs to be that such teams don’t meet a full premade.

If this happened, RIP PvP population.

Certainly not, rather it would make PvP actual a team game which it should be in true sense

Not necessarily. Atleast for me it would kill any desire to PvP. Im a solo player at heart. And while I have entertained the thought of fighting as a team. And even have joined a couple. Ultimately my playstyle works best when I am self reliant. And I contribute more to the match when I am not worrying about what my team mates expect from me in each individual fight.

Which means the number of parties I can join is MINIMAL as the likelyhood of there existing a team where I can maintain my playstyle and level of effectiveness is almost zero due to how the GW2 combat system works and what teams in gw2 expect from certain classes and builds.

So for me atleast. The removal of solo que WOULD infact signal the end of PvP for me. And likely signal the start of a large reduction in the time I spend in GW2. Ultimately leading to me finding a game where I am not restrained simply because I don’t want to be chained entirely to the expectaions of others in HOW I do my job.

If the GW2 community ever becomes results driven (That it was accomplished is all that matters not HOW it was accomplished) instead of mechanics driven (How you do something is more important that succeeding). Then it might be okay for me.

But that isn’t going to happen.

@ Evan Lesh The souls of the Accursed* so I can finally finish “The Army of Defenestration”?

A cooldown increase of that degree on both guard AND protect me is a pretty big hit to shout ranger survivability as well as there group support. Keep in mind guard and protect me aren’t just for themselves. But for there team mates as well.

If you increase the gap by which these can be used while ignoring the drawbacks of the skills. (Guard for example forces a pet swap if you use it as a support skill in order to avoid pet death. Protect Me’s taunt can simply not function due to cleanse, stunbreaks, and stability). Even by something seemingly as small as an additional ten seconds. Can have a significant affect. On the overall sustain and utility of the build that may stretch farther than you are seeing right now.

With as much experience with shouts as I have at this point. I feel that this would cause a rather large amount of damage to the playstyle.

But no where NEAR as much as your suggestion with heal as one. At the moment a shout rangers ONLY true gimmick is its ability to copy boons back and forth from the pet. Its how its burst WORKS. If you take away heal as one in its current form. You take away a MASSIVE amount of what is necessary for a shout ranger to function in the current meta.

I can say with certainty that I simply would NOT have the damage necessary to kill a condi reaper, a dragonhunter, or a warrior as quickly as I need to without that ability. If you lower both our offensive AND our defensive effectiveness simultaneously (atleast to the degree you are suggesting). I believe you will end up pushing shouts out of ANY form of viability entirely. The effect of your proposed nerfs extends quite a bit further than I believe you are currently picturing due to the multiplicative nature of the shout ranger playstyle.

I will say this. If you are suggesting to nerf these skills due to there effectiveness when combined with druid. I urge you to target the druid build itself instead. If we start balancing with the assumption that druid is taken. Then druid only becomes MORE mandatory than it already is. Not less.

A shout RANGER is by no means over powered. Or even Over Performing. Infact I would argue the base shout ranger (MM NM BM full shouts) is as close to a balanced build as I have SEEN lately. It only becomes truly strong when druid is thrown into the mix instead of MM. As druid offers very high levels of disengage, sustain, and control capability. Maybe we should be looking at that instead of nerfing what isn’t the issue n order to account for the real problem.

As the title says I would like to ask the PvP team to consider the addition of the commanders stat combination to PvP.

The Commanders stat combination is Power Precision Toughness and Concentration with Power and Precision being the primary stats at equal levels and Toughness and Concentration being the secondary stats at equal levels.

It is a stat set with a focus on Offensive stats. One raw Defensive stat. And a Utility stat.

The builds I can see getting the most use from this stat combination are builds on the lines of Self Reliant style builds. Or builds with an emphasis on self buffing.

Things like Scrapper/Engineer, Shout Ranger/duid, And Tempest, are builds that I see getting the most benifit out of it. With Warrior and Chronomancer builds being just under those. While thieves could develop builds with this stat set in mind. I don’t feel it would be equal to their current options due to the way there traits are setup. And Reaper builds that could utilize this stat set efficienctly are currently out of style. Though self might reaper builds (Reaper/Necro shroud focused builds for example) could very well benefit from it as well. I do not feel that dragonhunter would significantly benefit from this stat set in the current meta.

I have been testing this stat set as a shout ranger in wvw for a long period of time now (Because quite honestly its the only place I CAN test it. Sadly PvE is still zerk meta so I can’t exactly try it out there.)

What my time using it has shown me is that this stat set has a couple key strengths are weaknesses.

Strengths

First: It allows Potentially high damage through long lasting boons. An increase in duration of defensive boons also affords a buffer to its low health pool.

Second: It can extend the duration of a players “burst dps phase” increasing the window with which you can pressure through an opponents active defense.

Weaknesses: No ferocity. As any build that utilizes this amulet will ultimately be a power build. The lack of ferocity has a couple interesting effects.

A. Your Damage is tied to the boons you can produce with your build. Your dps will be focused less on activating x Multiplier and more on cooldown management and the production of boons at critical times. I.E Copying might through heal as one as a shout ranger from your pet to yourself in order to prepare for a burst phase. Increased boon duration means you have a wider window of opportunity for boon transfer as well as a wider opening with which to attack. Meaning your build is on less of a time leash as to WHEN you attack after prepping.

B. Your dps will be significantly lower with this amulet when you are NOT producing boons. Either if your cooldown rotation was interrupted or thrown off sync. Or if your stack of boons has been removed. Which leads me to my second weakness.

Second: A weakness to “boon hate”. Because this amulets damage and survivability relies on the production and maintenance of boons. Builds that can either remove those boons. Or punish you for having boons will have more potential for shutting you down.

For example on my ranger it is possible to temporarily self might to 25 stacks of might. What that means is that if a thief steals those boons from me. Im probably about to get shafted unless I can pressure the thief off of me. Likewise a necromancer can corrupt those boons. Completely shutting down my primary source of damage until I can’ build them back up. Meaning said necro has the tools to even out the advantage I had due to my boon uptime.

My Primary reason for asking for this amulet to be included is that I find it an incredibly fun playstyle and I wish that I could use it outside of just roaming in WvW.

My other reason is that I feel it would be good for the PvP scene as a whole if dpsers had more choice in how they got there damage. A commanders stat build would be less reliant on crits and the ferocity it requires. But would be more vulnerable to other mechanics. I feel giving players more choice in HOW they plan out their damage would go a long way towards making the games gameplay more engaging. As fighting a boon focused build versus a ferocity focused one can be very different experiences.

The two aren’t really interchangable even though it might look like it at first glance.

Guard acts as a 5 target aoe linking your pet with you and 4 other friendly players. Your pet will take 50% of the damage those 5 targets would have taken. And you will gain a stack of might every time your pet takes damage. Either from the transfer or even just normally.

What this means is that guard is a defensive/support oriented skill that enables you to punish the person/persons hurting your team with the copious amount of might you gain from the skills use.

In other words is a retaliatory skill. Blunting the initial strike and hurting them for it.

Protect Me is a bit different. When use yourself and 4 other players will be stun broken. The next time YOU take damage your pet will taunt that individual towards him. You also gain protection.

At this point the most powerful/reliable part of the skill is the aoe stunbreak. As the taun can be cleansed/stunbroken/stabilitied.

With this in mind Guard and Protect me actually work best in my experience when they’re both on the toolbar. Protect Me to peel for you when an indiviudal is hitting you and you need to get away.

Guard when your team mate is being ganked,pressured or you are going toe to toe with a build that out melees you. (Guard can let you melee pretty evenly with a warrior or theif for a short time as long as you avoid the stuns)

I find Guard to TECHINCALLY be the stronger of the two due to its nature as a might stacking tool as well as its group support capabilities. Your more likely to save someone with a damage reduction than a stun break they are not expecting (assuming non TS groups). As most people will not be able to capitalize on a stun break they don’t know has happened as many of htem will pop their own instinctively.

That combined with its synergy with nature magic (Any might you get your pet gets as well making it really easy to bounce 25 stacks of might between you and your pet through heal as one)

Though in that case Protect me ALSO has synergy with Nature Magic due to its protection. When copied it provides a decent amount of protection.

TLDR; In my experience these skills work best when there both on the bar together as they cover different situations. They aren’t really interchangeable. But if you can only pick one. Pick whichever you will be more reliably able to utilize based on your opponents composition and your own teams coordination (from a pvp perspective)

Edit: In reply to the above post. Ive been a full shout ranger pretty much my entire game time since releaes. Guard killing my pet is one of the LEAST common things that happen in my gameplay. Its just timing on when you use it. And even if it DOES kill the pet. You do still get 25 stacks of might out of it and probably not dead team mates. Cause having dead team mates is a bad thing (Unless there twits. In which case sometimes I don’t use the skill even when I could have and just laugh. But then im a bit of an kitten)

Allright. Bit more indepth.

First thing you might do is take a look at the utilties and weapons and find ones that look interesting.

If you choose to go with the longbow route. Then you will likely be playing power (Having power as your primary stat followed by precision)

If your using longbow its range will keep you safe in MOST of PvE content (that changes when you hit HoT but by then you should know the other weapon sets enough that you can use them to cover for the longbows weaknesses)

Next take a look at utilities and find ones that seem interesting to you. Your only lvl 19 so you don’t have to worry TOO Much but as you level further these become more important. I personally use shouts as they offer a good mix of offense and defense. (Guard Protect Me and Sic em are my go to’s with the elite and heal shout as well when you gain access to them) However other utility skills work as well. Especially if map completion is your thing. However since you will want to be mobile I really would reccomend the shouts. (Permanent Swiftness with the t1 BM shout trait resounding timbers).

Once you have that you will likely have two of your train lines decided for you. (In this case Marksmanship to enhance your damage through clarion bond and BM to get reduced cooldowns on your shouts as well as improve your pets damage)

Then you just need to pick a trait line that offers something to the other two.

In the example I picked above the best one would likely be Nature Magic. As it offers two things you will likely make use of when you level up enough to use them. Evasive Purity is an amazing trait that will help alot as your running past mobs. And Fortifying Bond will offer more damage and survivability to both you and your pet due to its synergy with shout skills.

Couple things.

Druids (rangers in general) aren’t brought for there dps. They are brought for the buffs they provide. This has mixed feelings for alot of people but makes what you want to attempt more reasonable than it would with other classes.

Your biggest dps contributions are gonna be from the buffs you provide. You also have your pet who can contribute about as much dps as you can if you spam f2 (assuming you have a tiger).

What this means is that you can actually go full healer without hurting yourself too much. One thing to keep in mind though. Boss agro is decided by toughness. So if your going to go healer you may want to go zealots or magi’s instead of clerics.

Its not the meta for sure. But you will likely be able to find raid groups. And probably will be useful in high level fractals. It’s easier to go full healer as a ranger than it is to go full dps just from how our mechanics and group buffing function.

forum bug

15 chars on a charrtacylce

Dante.1508:

John Smith.4610:

Things YOU know as facts:
1. I can buy unlimited items off the Tp without any server limitations- FALSE
2. I can pick up unlimited items into my inventory from the TP without any server limitations – FALSE
3. I can set arbitrary buy order prices at unlimited speed without server limitations. – FALSE
4. Doing any of these things in reverse (selling) causes an error to pop up – what?
Things devs have stated as facts in the past:
-series of random ad hominems that clearly make your points more valid…right?

Just because you don’t see the technical implementation of some aspects of the systems doesn’t mean it’s magic.

Do you really need to be so condescending about it?

Even if he WAS being condescending (And I don’t feel like he was in truth. Atleast no more than was deserved due to the assumptive nature of the post hes responding to) the forums have shown that that attitude is the only one players actually respond too.

When they try to be uber polite they are often looked down on by the very people who have been demanding answers. (Perhaps the fact that they are DEMANDING answers is a sign?)

But John Smith in particular has a good bit more respect on the forums precisely because he doesn’t always take peoples kitten.

If people are talking out of there kitten they need to be shut down. Whether it be a player or a developer. Because on a public forum misinformation can be spread like fact. Even if it has no basis in reality.

Ironically. If the base ranger class was viable a piercing shots ranger could absolutely shut down any rez attempt assuming signet of stone was popped. Simply line them up and fire na 11k rapid fire through the downed the pet and the ranger.

People aren’t arguing that there shouldnt be tools to fight ranged playstyles with. They are arguing that there are too many based on what those skills do and there cooldowns.

A good point has been made though that a large number of RANGED skills aren’t even EFFECTED by anti range skills. (I.E. Projectile reflection and destruction) Infact. Only one commonly used weapon is effected by them at all in signficiant ways. Longbows.

Shortbows aren’t used often (Thief is used for mobility and fields effects. Rangers is bad)

And every staff has a way of getting by reflects (Most staff skills are targeted aoes not projectiles)

Lets be honest. If ALL ranged skills were affected by reflects/projectile destruction these skills would flat out be nerfed in a HEARTBEAT.

One thing we can do is lower the number of individual reflection skills and repurpose them (defensive field could be a flat 20% damage reduction for allies in the bubble while applying weakness to enemies inside it turning it into a support skill with a wider range of uses).

This would make timing your reflects a bit more important instead of popping them off cooldown. (Oh he just swapped to longbow let me pop this now) instead of (Let me pop this now INCASE hes going to swap to longbow so he just can’t weapon swap at all)

Then we can make the actual reflects more powerful. Projectile destructions kills get changed to (Anyone outside this area CANNOT affect anyone inside this area without entering this area). And projectile reflection skills get repurposed to the sources stats. (If you eat your own rapid fire. You eat the WHOLE rapid fire. Not a dumbed down version of it. Meaning if you had 25 stacks of might as well as fury. Your probably gonna get kittened)

Since more often than not it seems like when you eat your own arrow it does no where near the damage it would have to the person your hitting.

@Sarrs. Agreed (In my first post I misunderstood what you were trying to say so I remade this)

Its pretty easy to learn DBL. Theres multiple routes to each location so your movements aren’t as predictable for the enemy to guess. But theres multiple places scouts can go to check those routes giving scouts something to do.

Remember how when you were going to nw camp and EVERY SINGLE PERSON ON THE ENEMY TEAM knew how to funnel you into a kill box (victory worm) or where to go to head you off? (south entrance of the camp or the switchback to the east.) It really didn’t take much effort to figure it out. And since the entire area was one massive field up to that point you could have one guy sitting* on the wall of bay and hed have a hand free to press the push to talk to say “Oh there going NW camp”.

Anyone that says alpine was great for scouting has probably never scouted it before. It was EASY to scout. It was by NO means fun. Spending 45 minutes of your 2 hour gaming session on a wall HOPING the place your “Scouting” gets hit wasn’t hit wasn’t entertaining and certainly wasn’t PvP. Theres a reason most people started watching movies. Becuase you didn’t even have to pay attention to notice the giant ball of red names out in the middle of the open.

(Alpine was great for scouting my human female meta behind)

Edit: Quoted the wrong person this was at Furajir

Don’t mean to interrupt but I thought I would step in. The previous version of S&R did exactly that. And it was considered THE WORST rez skill in the game… possibly the sworst skill in the game period. Part of the reason it received a rework.

Honestly I wish S&R JUST summoned the allies corpse to the ranger (like it does now) But did NOT cause the pet to help rez it. It would still be a powerful rez skill without being SUPER OMG THIS IS AWESOME EVERY DRUID MUST RUN IT level of powerful.

Yes it can be counterplayed. But experienced druids know how to get away with it (I do it ALOT). Like popping it and then triggering celestial shadow so they don’t know which wall you teleported the downed guy through.

Having it so that the ranger has to rez it without the pets help does a couple things. It lets the ranger use the pet for something else. (Like winding up a bristleback f2 on the guy thats coming to try to stop you). And it slows down the rez long enough for more direct counterplay.

Now. As someone who has had his kill stolen by random druid #357 from lot #21 multiple times and only been able to stare impotenetly because he brought the body up onto the ledge at khylo and theres nothing I can do to stop it because my only ranged CC is either bodyblockable or on cooldown because I stealthed in order to stomp. Its STILL not half as annoying as unblockable marks…carry on.

Isn’t it there BECAUSE of que times? So that the person queing is certain ahead of time that hes going to accept the que? So that he isn’t wasiting the other 9 peoples times?

If he declines then he puts the other 9 back in que. Wasting there time even further in already long que times. Dishonor discourages him from doing so again.

Yes in the situation you mention it sucks. Ill full on agree with that. But taking it away gets rid of a part of what the dishonor system is there for in the first place. In this kind of situation I don’t think theres a solution that doesn’t involve SOMEONE getting kittened over.

If we take it away we may end up getting the que trolls back (People that would repeatedly join and then decline ques because the rage in map chat amused them).

I wonder if its possible to just have a limit on the number of declines per 24 hours. LIke one or two declines doesn’t produce any dishonor but 3-4 will lock you out. And it resets when the dailies reset.

@ OP. Its not so much that people are afraid of raids. But that raids only cater to a few playstyles due to the perceptions of the players running them.

In other games as people are leveling up and doing dungeons/small scale group content or even just questing they are learning the playstyle for the roll their class is designed to fill. And its easier to do that because they have the trinity system. Meaning that the playstyle they develop as they level will ALWAYS be on the lines of tank/healer/dps. This funnels players into specific methods of play. So the transition from say solo or small grp fighting to raid combat is pretty smooth. You do the same thing you did in the 5 man inside the 25 man. Only better.

GW2 is a bit different. The playstyle you develop while your leveling may have nothing to do with the role you have selected.

For example I play mostly TPvP. The playstyle I have developed has been with that in mind.

When I played a Hunter in wow I knew I was always a damage oriented player. No matter what skill or trait setup I prioritized. So what mattered for me was “make the damage work”

In GW2 its not that clear. Damage/Control/Support are all mixed together in one build. I have to fulfill multiple rolls to be truly efficient. And the skills I used and practiced with for years has been with that mindset.

Naturally this effected my playstyle in the rest of the game. I had a skill set that worked well. I knew how to use it in each situation. And I could use it effectively.

The issue is with PvE is the “DPS” is king mentality. Before anyone chomps at me I am not talking about the bezerker mentality. But instead the process of “Everything is for the goal of killing the boss faster”

Due to the fluidity of classes. This means that each players playstyle when they enter the raid HAS to be made with that in mind. You heal for the sake of damage. You control for the sake of damage. You tank for the sake of damage.

In WoW you tank for the sake of survival for other players. Not DIRECTLY so that they can do more damage. Its possible in gw2 to survive boss fights without anyone holding agro. In other games its required for survival. The same is true for healers. You bring a healer in gw2 if it will help you eek out more damage. Not because its actually necessary for the sake of survival. Its a subtle difference. But it does effect how you play. And how what your playing FEELS.

And yet many players as they level develop playstyles with completely different goals. Due to my fascination with PvP. My skillset was developed towards Personnel sustain, Short Term CC, and Burst Dmg. The concept of long term damage was foreign to me.

What this ultimately means is that the playstyle and skillset I have learned and mastered for the last few years means absolutely nothing in raids. Infact it would be viewed negatively if I attempted to bring it into raids at all. It was one of the most disappointing feelings for me when Anet said they wanted to open up more roles but ultimately I realized that there still wasn’t a roll that fit my goal and gameplay style.

It means that in order for me to be an effective raider. Or in many cases in order for me to even be allowed INSIDE a raid. I would have to sacrifice not only my playstyle but the skillset I have developed up to this point. As the majority of what I have learned is undesirable in a raid environment. The tools I have learned to use and mastered have no significant impact.

So for me atleast. Its not out of fear that I avoid raids. But more out of disappointment. As it will be very difficult for me to enjoy the playstyle that raiding in its current form would impose upon me. As I have developed my gameplay in a different direction.

Edit: Had a thought while rereading this. In older raids fights (in other games) there were often mechanics that had to be dealt with by one or two players. Meaning they had to separate from the rest of their team for periods of time in order to act on their own devices. This usually was fulfilled by classes that were capable of a few key things Self Healing/Self Buffing/And high amounts of damage over a short time. In other words the classes and builds that fulfilled this type of roll would be very close to what guild wars 2 currently has as PvP builds. I wonder if we could implement such rolls in GW2s raids in the future. A place where a stand alone player can have meaning. It would likely make the transition easier atleast for PvPers to get into raiding.

lil devils x.6071:

Shadelang.3012:

lil devils x.6071:

Shadelang.3012:

lil devils x.6071:

Shadelang.3012:

lil devils x.6071:

gennyt.3428:

You’ll still have EBG to use these awful guild upgrades. If we’re caring about options so much at least give the people who don’t like chilling fog, p2w culling and banners some respite via the BLs.

They need to pull them from EBG too and give guilds something much better instead of this garbage for their money, time and effort put in to earning them. These were just very bad ideas from the beginning that should have never been implemented in actual game play.

Gonna have to disagree here. Things like the chill field made outmanuvering an enemy zerg actually a thing. As there backline gets further stretched behind there aoe clearing frontline. Making it possible to defend with far fewer people as long as you can get organized enough to do it. Instead of just having this blob power through anything you try to put in there path through shear supply count.

The guild upgrades themselves are fine. If they need balancing that can be done. But getting rid of them entirely is just gonna make the fights go stale faster.

You should always remember the zerg will be defending objectives if the game mode is set up properly, so all you are doing is giving one zerg a massive advantage over everyone else who touches anything. The few are not supposed to fight the many, the many fight the many. Anything the individual can do the zerg does in mass.

It was already too easy to defend if your team actually bothered to defend objectives., you do not need a bunch of gimmicks to do so.You solve that by personally rewarding players for defending MORE than rewarding attacking and you kill the KTrain. Easy as that, they forgot to do that is the only reason why players did not defend before.

Its true that the rewards were a big part of it. And also a part of the reason why so many people didn’t bother upgrading objectives. After all why would you put gold into something when you won’t get gold out of it. The few that did were often left with bittersweet feelings on the matter watching the towers/camps they defended falling without having any impact.

I feel like the guild claiming buff that keeps give out goes a bit towards helping with that. Improved magic find and the like. But a more concrete reward would help. Unfortunately as far as I know there isn’t anything like that in place. Or even the system for it unless you wanted to add a big gold reward to successful defense events. But that would be pretty exploitable. How would you do it? You said its easy. But I don’t really see how it could implemented without making it heavily exploitable by players.

You increase PPK, LOOT, and XP for players attacking and defending objectives without the use of siege damage. If you are in an attacking or defended structure under attack while fighting you will receive more XP, LOOT and PPK for doing so. Give the defending team slightly more than the attacking team, and the zerg will defend it. No loot for siege damage encourages players to fight each other without siege over objectives in order to receive the pay off. This way you are not rewarding afkers or siege humpers and encouraging fun fights over objectives instead.

That actually pretty heavily PUNISHES the use of siege though doesn’kitten And this is a situation where what one person finds fun another might not. There are probably people that truly enjoy using an arrow cart to waylay attackers. I’m not sure punishing those players for enjoying the game is the right awnser here.

Though I do feel your on the right track with increase loot for attacking/defending. Perhaps increased loot in general for successive kills in a given objective? Something that would cap out but would encourage players to keep fighting for that last kill even against overwhelming odds. Like a stacking buff you get per kill that caps out at say 20 with increased magic find and gold per kill around a claimed objective?

It actually balances siege use, the current issue is you have entire zergs on siege vs anyone who is not. That is fine, siege is still detrimental, however, you have to choose between being personally rewarding, having increased point and receiving XP for using it and it will balance out. It is powerful to use siege, but you sacrifice your rewards for doing so.

ANYONE and everyone can sit on an AC, and the entire Zerg can sit on siege as well, and often DO. It takes no skill to do so. This isue is why thousands of players have left WvW for better balanced PvP. to resolve that issue and make it fun to the majority, they have to balance out siege and the best way to do so is make those who use it have to sacrifice personally and not reward their server for it’s usage. Siege is crutch, a handicap. you do not get extra rewarded when it already gives you an advantage. The players who are at the disadvantage fighting against siege and such should be the ones rewarded for their efforts since it is much more difficult to do so than sit on an AC.

Hmm that is a fair point. But it should still be possible to to reward ground fighters additonaly without taking rewards away from siege users. Lets face it siege is a mandatory part of WvW. You CAN’T play the game mode without siege in one form or another. Should we take away contribution from the guy that used a flame ram to knock down a door?

Do we make it so that ONLY arrow carts and ballistas are affected by this?

If we start reworking WvW to discourage the use of siege at all. Were gonna have to also work on how objectives are breached as well. If we discourage one form of siege that’s gonna affect the others in some way as well.

Punishing an individual that chooses to help his team doesn’t really seem to make sense to me. But its possible we have different views. You can reward people for having higher risk without pushing players that have a greater effect. Giving a boost that differentiates between kills through siege and kills on the ground might be possible.

WIth that you can increase the magic find/exp gain/and silver per kill of a ground troop without completely taking away from the arrow cart user. Quality over quantity for example. This means that an elementalist who downs 9 people with a meteor shower will get rewarded more than the guy that got 14-15 downs with the AC.

@Puck

Heres the thing I was getting at with the forums. Most players DON’T care enough about an issue to get on the forums and talk about it. The ones that do are usually unhappy. An unhappy player is statistically more likely to make a post than a happy one. That’s a recorded fact shown evidence of which is shown in every game forum ever made by ANY developer. So OBVIOUSLY the forum is going to have mostly negative comments inbetween “Discovery” phases (something new that shakes it up that causes actualy discussion eventually the discussion dies down and those that are unhappy with the current state of the game voice there opinions)

Again I wasn’t even REMOTELY trying to claim that HoT as a whole didn’t lower the WvW Population.

Whether the majority is against it or not is what doesn’t matter. You can fix a problem without taking a chainsaw to it. Something anet learned after Half the PvP forum spent a year and a half raging at them for one axe nerf after another. Nerfs that were brought on because the vocal minority had the floor and made it seem like the end of the world. Instead of rounding up every single aspect of HoT WvW and tossing it out the window we can look at what they did RIGHT and keep it. Even if we don’t fully agree with it. And don’t just say (Oh they got NOTHING right) now THAT is being dishonest.

lil devils x.6071:

Shadelang.3012:

lil devils x.6071:

Shadelang.3012:

lil devils x.6071:

gennyt.3428:

You’ll still have EBG to use these awful guild upgrades. If we’re caring about options so much at least give the people who don’t like chilling fog, p2w culling and banners some respite via the BLs.

They need to pull them from EBG too and give guilds something much better instead of this garbage for their money, time and effort put in to earning them. These were just very bad ideas from the beginning that should have never been implemented in actual game play.

Gonna have to disagree here. Things like the chill field made outmanuvering an enemy zerg actually a thing. As there backline gets further stretched behind there aoe clearing frontline. Making it possible to defend with far fewer people as long as you can get organized enough to do it. Instead of just having this blob power through anything you try to put in there path through shear supply count.

The guild upgrades themselves are fine. If they need balancing that can be done. But getting rid of them entirely is just gonna make the fights go stale faster.

You should always remember the zerg will be defending objectives if the game mode is set up properly, so all you are doing is giving one zerg a massive advantage over everyone else who touches anything. The few are not supposed to fight the many, the many fight the many. Anything the individual can do the zerg does in mass.

It was already too easy to defend if your team actually bothered to defend objectives., you do not need a bunch of gimmicks to do so.You solve that by personally rewarding players for defending MORE than rewarding attacking and you kill the KTrain. Easy as that, they forgot to do that is the only reason why players did not defend before.

Its true that the rewards were a big part of it. And also a part of the reason why so many people didn’t bother upgrading objectives. After all why would you put gold into something when you won’t get gold out of it. The few that did were often left with bittersweet feelings on the matter watching the towers/camps they defended falling without having any impact.

I feel like the guild claiming buff that keeps give out goes a bit towards helping with that. Improved magic find and the like. But a more concrete reward would help. Unfortunately as far as I know there isn’t anything like that in place. Or even the system for it unless you wanted to add a big gold reward to successful defense events. But that would be pretty exploitable. How would you do it? You said its easy. But I don’t really see how it could implemented without making it heavily exploitable by players.

You increase PPK, LOOT, and XP for players attacking and defending objectives without the use of siege damage. If you are in an attacking or defended structure under attack while fighting you will receive more XP, LOOT and PPK for doing so. Give the defending team slightly more than the attacking team, and the zerg will defend it. No loot for siege damage encourages players to fight each other without siege over objectives in order to receive the pay off. This way you are not rewarding afkers or siege humpers and encouraging fun fights over objectives instead.

That actually pretty heavily PUNISHES the use of siege though doesn’kitten And this is a situation where what one person finds fun another might not. There are probably people that truly enjoy using an arrow cart to waylay attackers. I’m not sure punishing those players for enjoying the game is the right awnser here.

Though I do feel your on the right track with increase loot for attacking/defending. Perhaps increased loot in general for successive kills in a given objective? Something that would cap out but would encourage players to keep fighting for that last kill even against overwhelming odds. Like a stacking buff you get per kill that caps out at say 20 with increased magic find and gold per kill around a claimed objective?

lil devils x.6071:

Shadelang.3012:

lil devils x.6071:

gennyt.3428:

You’ll still have EBG to use these awful guild upgrades. If we’re caring about options so much at least give the people who don’t like chilling fog, p2w culling and banners some respite via the BLs.

They need to pull them from EBG too and give guilds something much better instead of this garbage for their money, time and effort put in to earning them. These were just very bad ideas from the beginning that should have never been implemented in actual game play.

Gonna have to disagree here. Things like the chill field made outmanuvering an enemy zerg actually a thing. As there backline gets further stretched behind there aoe clearing frontline. Making it possible to defend with far fewer people as long as you can get organized enough to do it. Instead of just having this blob power through anything you try to put in there path through shear supply count.

The guild upgrades themselves are fine. If they need balancing that can be done. But getting rid of them entirely is just gonna make the fights go stale faster.

You should always remember the zerg will be defending objectives if the game mode is set up properly, so all you are doing is giving one zerg a massive advantage over everyone else who touches anything. The few are not supposed to fight the many, the many fight the many. Anything the individual can do the zerg does in mass.

It was already too easy to defend if your team actually bothered to defend objectives., you do not need a bunch of gimmicks to do so.You solve that by personally rewarding players for defending MORE than rewarding attacking and you kill the KTrain. Easy as that, they forgot to do that is the only reason why players did not defend before.

Its true that the rewards were a big part of it. And also a part of the reason why so many people didn’t bother upgrading objectives. After all why would you put gold into something when you won’t get gold out of it. The few that did were often left with bittersweet feelings on the matter watching the towers/camps they defended falling without having any impact.

I feel like the guild claiming buff that keeps give out goes a bit towards helping with that. Improved magic find and the like. But a more concrete reward would help. Unfortunately as far as I know there isn’t anything like that in place. Or even the system for it unless you wanted to add a big gold reward to successful defense events. But that would be pretty exploitable. How would you do it? You said its easy. But I don’t really see how it could implemented without making it heavily exploitable by players.

forum bug 15 chars