Guild Wars 2

Mesket.5728:

Skill… some people need to define skill when they talk about… Liadri is not MMO skill,.. is single player skill. Personally I don’t care for thakittens like playing SIMON, you finally get it after some tries. and is lag dependant so not everyone would be able to do it regardless of “skill”.

What I’d like to see is at least a tiny piece of Co-Op content and not random people fighting besides doing who knows what (oh yes, zerkhergh ermergherd i can haz big numberzzz). The day we have something that requires a party to stop a second… think… and then move, I’ll give them back the R in their MMOPG.

How do you go about promoting strategic gameplay in a combat environment such as this? Perhaps make more phase fights where the phases come randomly as opposed to memorization of patterns (which is all skill is in this game)? The solution Anet came up with to making boss fights not quite as trivial is defiant stacks but it has a problem in that it promotes this zerker or bust mindset, but without them being immune to cc think about how easy they could be if you just chain knocked or stunned them, it would switch from erhmagerd deeps to erhmagerd deeps/cc. So what is the solution? Unpredictability is the only real answer to ever change the pve situation in this game, it would also force players to build a bit more for surviving but it would make it difficult to then come up with a encounter “strategy” and could potentially push the gap even further in favor of certain classes than it already does.

Kiriwar.7382:

I wish we got all Dark Souls/Vindictus up in this joint. Then we could talk about skill, at least my definition of it in the sense of combat.

The fine mechanisms of Vindictus combat never ceased to amaze me. I don’t like being restricted to arbitrary 2 dodgerolls in Guild Wars when the others’ combat relies on precise management of stamina for blocking, dodging, sprinting and whatnot, making combat more fluid and dynamic.

Vindictus was fun from a combat perspective for sure, of course any kind of lag there was even more punishing than it is here especially on my fiona. Ultimately I left that game because at certain levels it almost felt a bit too much like work to be enjoyable, guess somewhere a long the line I got old lol.

locoman.1974:

I guess it’s a “wrong if you do, wrong if you don’t” kind of things. On one side you have people asking for harder skill based content…. yet when some content like that is added to the game (Queen’s Gauntlet, including an exclusive mini for those that manage to do it) then suddenly you have the forums explosing about how it is unfar that not everyone can get the pet, and how it divides the players and so on.

This is true unfortunately, I am of the opinion that there is absolutely nothing wrong with giving players with a higher “skill” level rewards that are not accessible to all players. It seems at some point people have forgotten that having such things gives incentive to try harder, a goal to aspire to. Those that think they should be handed a reward simply because they participated often times lack the ability to realize that they are doing a disservice to themselves and the community to which they belong. I know it’s not the politically correct thing to say but there have to be “winners” and “losers” in any game, to expect otherwise is just foolishness.

cesmode.4257:

Shadowpuppet, I agree.
Legendaries should have been that way, instead of a precursor. I think they got the hint, and they are going to give us a scavenger hunt. But again, I fear that will be more of “collect xyz, kill abc”. I want a long quest line, a long personal story that is tailored for the legendary that I am going after. And the last boss will be one that won’t be easily dispatched. Difficulty like Liadri, maybe a bit harder.

Right now, to get anything in the game all you need are a combination of the following:
-Lots of time
-Lots of gold
-Lots of luck
-Lots of Real Life Cash.

Pains me to say, that getting the best looking gear in WoW took some coordination as a guild and skill. Here, we just need to farm forever.

Heck it doesn’t even have to be just legendaries, I mean we have order specific armor and different tiers of cultural armor and they make them vendor items -_-. Why not make items like those be actually associated with adventuring rather than just how well you can farm for karma/gold. I realize that development resources are a finite thing, between time and money they often simply can’t include the sweeping unique content required to make obtaining certain things not feel like just another farming exercise. I would rather see them devote their resources into more design activities with this kind of goal as opposed to the new “content” every 2 weeks that are just rehashes of the easy route.

I think the issue is actually not difficulty level, it’s lack of engaging and compelling reasons to do a particular encounter. All of the rewards in this game are of two types, either repeat ad nauseum(various currencies) or rng. While these kinds of rewards do keep people playing they don’t promote a real sense of accomplishment beyond time spent or luck. I know people make the argument that being “skilled” is it’s own reward
but even olympians get trophies for their effort if they succeed.

The rpg portion of mmorpg is lacking here, and by that I mean character development or progression. Before anyone jumps and says we don’t want gear treadmill, that is not the type of progression I am referring to. By level 30 in this game you more or less have the majority of the skills unlocked that you will ever use, sure traits do enhance some of these skills in some way or another but it never quite gives the sense of getting something new or really making the character that much better than before you had said trait (with a few exceptions of course). All in all it achieves little to actually connect you to the avatar you are playing when the only choice is in terms of “effectiveness”.

How wonderful would it be to have something that validates the effort you put in? Why not design content that is more engaging and compelling like unique skins that are specific to a class that requires a heroic set of adventures to obtain rather than just simply repeating x activity y amount of times? These items do not need to offer an advantage over someone else in any way just change the how and why these items are gotten.

I think back to my days with another mmorpg, where even reaching level cap required that you fought a doppelganger of yourself of sorts to progress and I can’t help but feel like those types of situations are missing here. So it is clear I am not speaking specifically about recreating that scenario, but I simply mean moments that connect you to the avatar you are playing. In conclusion, I feel like this game has tons of untapped potential and could benefit from a few more imaginative and compelling ways to give a sense of accomplishment, reward, and character progression.

TheGuy.3568:

the way I see it nades are like all our other kits. More rewarding the closer the target gets to you. That being said they aren’t going to add an auto attack to the kit on land. ATM if you are proficient with it or feel like you are than the kit is so stupid powerful there is no reason to worry about not having an auto attack,

The other issue is that it would be very hard to implement without a homing feature. As of this moment Anet has actually been removing homing features from auto attacks on ranged weapon sets.

Conan.8046:

Honestly…in pve grenades are fine if not a chore to spam…in pvp unless your fighting a zerg its difficult to hit anything.

Use a rifle.

I dunno, why couldn’t they just turn it into a on/off state during combat with other skills still of course taking priority over the auto when used? The grenades would still go where the cursor goes you just wouldn’t have to manually keep hitting 1 for every attack with the auto.

Too much credit is being given to sheeple, seriously alot of the zergers are just lemmings. I know this sounds like a harsh criticism, but sadly it seems true in many cases. People that normally are highly functional basically lose all semblance of being able to think for themselves once they are connected to the hivemind. Drones can follow icons though without much thought so eh, commander tags are essential!
p.s. before anyone gets mad this post is only partially serious

I don’t normally respond this way but just this once so forgive me ok? Did those bad men touch you on the nono?

Esplen.3940:

Nah, just press 4—>2, the Zerker gets the Might so it’s almost as good as you getting the Might.

Not even close to being as good, why would having might on a destructible damage source that only attacks every 5 seconds and only affects that one attack be even in the ballpark as having it on yourself which would then still apply it to the phantasm through your increased stat pool? Don’t get me wrong, it’s better than nothing but it is far from the optimal choice.

Dastion.3106:

The Mesmer community as a whole tends to overlook seemingly minor buffs, granted it doesn’t help that ANet doesn’t put things like this in patch notes.

For example, we had a few weeks where Illusions suddenly started being hit by bouncing skills and they took just as much priority as any other target. There was a lot of uproar because it seriously hurt staff and great sword, since Illusions were almost always closer than you or an ally and so stole bounces.

Turns out, this was a precursor to new bounce logic that was implemented soon after, whereas before illusions were ignored by bounces, they are now a valid target if no other valid target is available. This means GS now has greater ranged ability because you can bounce mirror blade off your zerker while maintaining max range. Previously the GS was counter intuitive since, while solo, you had to be 900 units away for max auto attack damage but had to be within 600 units to allow mirror blade to get all of its hits. This was incredible to me… The Mesmer community barely noticed.

The only issue with this is we don’t receive the might stacks when staying at max range. I would still love to see some sort of change to this.

Faelun.7563:

Is pure zerker acceptable in high level fractals? so even though engi benefits tremendously from + condition dmg, i’m to ignore it entirely? What it, say I do want to WvW on it a bit, still zerker or would I need an alternative gear set?

In high level fractals I think most people run zerker because no amount of toughness or vitality will save you from a missed dodge or some other form of negating the damage. If the group you run with is decent, you will be having plenty of might stacks which will increase the power of both the direct damage and condi damage. For WvW depends on how you play really, you can wear zerker but there are probably better choices, especially given the current retal/knockdown train that is the zerg meta.

A good mesmer that uses a staff and blink and portal, you will rarely be able to stay “in their face” it’s kind of what they specialize in, is in combat positioning. If they are using the staff they are most likely running a shatter build and will probably also be using sw/x. Shatter builds achilles heel is condis, so the faster you can get the condis on the better off you will be. If you get close you leave yourself susceptible to their blurred frenzy/mw combo so just be aware when they are close you will get a big burst to the face and plan accordingly. Mesmer has some of the best mobility in the game during fights, so don’t feel bad about struggling to keep them close to you. I agree with the others about switching to a rifle against mesmer, but a lot of it will come down to how good they are…if they are good players even that won’t be enough to keep them close to you, they can still blink or phase retreat while immobilized, it does not cure the immobilize but if they time it right they can buy themselves enough time for the immobile to wear off.

Singer.8740:

engie meets ele in open field > fight goes bad for ele > ele rides the lightning to disengage > engie instantly closes the gap while laughing maniacally and puts a burny boot in there face.

engie being chased by angry mob > engie runs to cliff ledge > engie rocket boots off cliff to other side > engie turns around and magnets one of the baddies off the cliff for a cheap kill > /laugh

enough said :/

I suspect sooner or later they will remove the ability to “fly” with rb, rtl used to function the same way but it doesn’t anymore. Then again I don’t know if there are enough engies to get this noticed and put on the radar as being an issue or not. Personally I don’t think rtl should have been changed this way, and I certainly don’t want rb to go this route, but who knows what anet thinks about when they get to swinging their nerfhammer.

Should I give you the same answer I did in your last thread? To be honest it’s tough to make 1 build that works for pve and wvw at the same time. Typically traits or gear choices will be vastly different. In the case of a grenade build you can probably run any of the variants listed in the following thread link in wvw and simply adjust gear accordingly. I would recommend reading it through it’s entirety, good luck and happy engineering.
http://www.guildwars2guru.com/topic/82395-guide-to-grenades-in-pve/

Yes, in some ways even more so than before, with the changes to jumpshot animation and changing the way rocket boots behave giving you a valid escape or gap closer. It will still have the same weakness to conditions it always had so bring lemongrass food, and you will still be susceptible to hard cc/stuns which is not really a new issue either. So it is viable if you are comfortable with the playstyle and know how to take advantage of it, hanging back and picking when the time is right to go in to really burst someone down.

I See No Tomorrow.7302:

Which of course brings us to the community. I feel like even though GW1 was an almost entirely instanced game, it had a better social feel to it. I’ve rarely been able to hold a conversation with random people in LA or any other city since release, and the only interaction I got was when I joined a guild. The BWEs were another story, those were full of social activity and interaction. It was wonderful.

What happened?

I think the initial popularity of the game has had a huge impact on it, even though anet publicly stated that they wanted the journey to be as important as the destination, it seems that many of the players that came here didn’t get that memo. I mean just look at some of the arguments made on these forums about how if you wear anything less than full berzerker gear in pve you are a selfish player, that alone should give you an idea what Anet is up against. Unfortunately people that would make a statement that a gear stat choice inherently makes you selfish are only focused on the destination, they leave no room for what if’s, it’s black or white. If someone says I want to run a speedclear group and I want you to run berserker gear for that and you misrepresent yourself saying that you have said gear and can play that style then sure that is selfish, but it’s not the gear itself that makes it so, rather it’s the intent to deceive. Sadly I think many of the problems this game faces in community boil down to boredom, there are some players that just are significantly better than others and can chew through content at breakneck speeds, and when they get bored they get hostile and start doing ridiculous behaviors as shown by what happened to the op (although without a screenshot I am not too quick to accept that this was the actual case). Just my opinion of course, but I would love to have the community back we had during the bwe’s

I think if they just added a deeper sense of character progression it would really help alleviate a lot of the problems. As it stands now you get most of your skills by 30, yeah traits do change some behaviors of certain skills but it’s nothing mind blowing it just usually makes the existing skillset more effective. Adding unique skills that can only be achieved by killing a certain rare monster that is a difficult fight, make it instanced somehow so it can’t just be zerged down like every thing else in this game, could be one possibility.

I mean once upon a time in a game called ffxi you couldn’t even progress to max level without such a fight and on certain classes it was really challenging, no guarantee that you were just gonna waltz in and wipe the floor with it (Im looking at you rdm maat fight, for anyone who might have played the game). It was a rite of passage, it showed who had it and who didn’t, but it gave a sense of self satisfaction once you finally completed it. There really isn’t any of that in gw2, I don’t know if that is to blame on player attitudes shifting and expecting that they should be able to do anything just because they play the game or just poor design, but I don’t like it. As it stands now the only real difference between someone who has a legendary and someone who doesn’t is rng and repetitiveness or real life cash.

I really don’t have a good solution for it, and I am not saying that the example I gave is something that should be implemented per se, it’s just I would be so much happier with a deeper sense of progression that is more than superficial. I mean let’s face it, we fight a “world” boss like shatterer sure it looks pretty but it’s just a complete pushover and what do we get from it? A chest with maybe a piece of rare loot in it and I could literally have stood back and done nothing but auto attack at range and get the same exact reward that everyone else got. So it is clear I am not asking for better rewards, I just want some sense of the rewards actually meaning something, something that I can correlate with a sense of accomplishment.

I know the argument in times past has been that you have to create your own sense of accomplishment in gw2. Soloing lupi for example, but it would be nice if doing something that the majority of the players either can’t or simply won’t do would get you a unique reward for doing said activity. Not for the purposes of being a braggart (although I am sure some people would use it as such), but just simply to have a trophy from the effort you put in.

Monadproxy.3489:

you guys also forgot that it completely ignores all enemy fields. You can get out of Elementalist’s lightning fields and Guardian’s “you will not pass” bs lines. Won’t get effected by fire/blind/etc on other fields if you rocket boots. not sure if intended or bug. but…:D

In case it is not intended, shhhh

Bloodgruve.6038:

Phineas Poe.3018:

Bloodgruve.6038:

So, in my test Acid Bomb can crit for a total of 10872 or 724.8DPS

It should be doing a lot more DPS than that, even without Deadly Mixture.

How did you come to reach this number? How were you testing this?

All of the testing I’ve done is on the Invulnerable Golem in the Mists for my own comparisons of different classes and build. So 10/30/0/0/30 Rifle with Sigil of Force, Scholars x6 and Zerker Amulet. I triggerd AB under the golem, made sure bleeds were left on the target and calculated the max potential Crit total of six ticks. No might or vulnerability on the target, 2600 armor. So these numbers are lower than what you would see in PvE with buffs. I usually make my calculations using a 2 to 5 minute test period and am more concerned about sustained damage than burst. I simply listed this value in comparison to the values I got from Pry Bar, Throw Wrench and Static Discharge testing in the same environment. I calculate DPS by Damage/Cooldown for a simple view, then can throw in crit rate and crit damage % for more accuracy. My full calculations take into account cast times and utilization of abilities and autoattacks. The value stated was full criticals on AB.

ShadowPuppet.3746:

10872/15= 724.8. If the fight is shorter than 15 seconds the dps value increases significantly, if it is longer than 15 seconds it still adds 724.8 dps if it is used every cooldown and averaged over the length of the encounter.

//

I think most classes are actually much closer in performance in their “optimal” damage dealing specs than people realize, the difference of course is ease of use and what other party buffs they can bring to the table.

First part, the DPS doesn’t really increase its just simply front loaded and short fights take advantage of that nicely.

Second part, this is true from what I’m seeing. Engi’s are on the upper end though. I really wanted my Mesmer and Guard to do better but it is what it is
Blood~

Yeah I should have explained what I meant about that first part better, if you were to look at just that skill and the fight lasts for only 5 seconds (not really all that feasible usually) then it’s dps would look like 2k dps, so any interval amount in between 5 seconds and longer is going to look like less and less dps until it reaches the low threshold of 15 seconds and time for the reset of the skill. It’s why when actually calculating dps it is always done over longer periods to more accurately reflect a truer dps picture. In this game since encounter times can vary so much (I’m looking at you lupi 17.5 second kill) and there are so many other factors to consider such as disconnect time from dodges or what have you, trying to present a accurate picture of what real performance will be is almost impossible. All we really can do is take it on a skill by skill basis and say theoretically this is what dps values you can potentially get yada yada. This is why damage coefficients become fairly important in predicting potential damage because it cuts out all the extracirriculars. Basically even with all the math though it’s still guess work at the end of the day of what you are going to get on a given encounter.

Well, one thing to consider is when you are drinking/tossing elixirs you are doing zero damage during that time. I am sure there are people that will disagree with me, but I generally feel hgh is better suited for a pvp setting. I suppose it will depend if the group you are running with can down whatever you are fighting before you need to toss elixirs in the middle of combat to maintain might stacks or not. Personally I don’t think it’s the most effective build out there or even the best way to get might stacks, so viable yes (because you will still get through cof), but optimal…probably not. Hopefully someone else can look at it and give you a different opinion on it, but personally I don’t think it will bring much to the party that different setups couldn’t do as well or better.

Alkaholic.3875:

ShadowPuppet.3746:

Alkaholic.3875:

@ ShadowPuppet.3746,

What build do YOU run? I always see ur comments and was curious what someone who has spent considerable time analyzing and number crunching runs…

Well that is a complicated answer to be honest, I don’t use just one particular build. It will vary based on the particular content and group composition we are taking (almost always full zerker gear for pve though). I rarely pug so it makes it easier for me to do this. I would say if you want to be able to adapt to most situations the easiest, running 30/15/0/0/25 or 30/5/0/10/25 are going to be your best bets. One will give you slightly more damage potential through increase crit chance and the other slightly better survival potential through having permanent vigor. Both of those builds will use the HT, GK, BK, and EG and P/S. The build posted in this thread by the op is highly specialized and tailored really to a specific group comp and playstyle to achieve it’s maximum efficiency.

Have a look here for some good info and happy engineering!
http://www.guildwars2guru.com/topic/82395-guide-to-grenades-in-pve/ This is a fantastic write up, and the poster there really knows his stuff (seriously he is like a spreadsheet guru)

Why elixir gun when all zerker? If u don’t mind me asking?

Blast finisher, condition removal, additional cc (if needed), regen and stunbreak from the toolbelt skill, and last but certainly not least acid bomb scales quite well with power considering it can be used simultaneously while doing other damage since it lasts 5 seconds, you can fire it off then animation cancel and go right into another skill (most effective against targets that don’t move around a lot). It can really be replaced with just about anything, I just find it makes a great fit in that setup. The advice I gave about those builds is basically from a pug perspective where you won’t know if you will need to provide vuln/might or if you will have sufficient condition removal etc etc, just feels like without taking specific rune choices into consideration those builds will give you the most adaptability in the widest array of scenario’s possible all while maintaining some very very good damage potential. They can be a bit tricky to use at times until you get used to having so many skill cooldowns to manage, just realize that you really don’t want to use every skill at all times. You can save certain skills for when you actually need them, like the blind grenade or the smoke field from the bombkit. It takes knowing the difference between which of those 15 skills is damage related and which are more utility related. That comes with time, but the point is you basically have every option you need to do it all besides facetank boss attacks heh.

Alkaholic.3875:

Bombs means I’m in the front line of a zerg (On Blackgate, there’s really no other type of wvw), Nades is retal magnet. I guess what I really need is a burst class (thief, mesmer, or ele) to kill folks while I tank and draw their aggro for skirmishes and havoc.

And then hope that they don’t have a bunch of hammer warrior’s and guardian’s stacked in the frontlines. Lack of stability will really hamper your effectiveness in that type of scenario. I don’t zerg, well I should say rarely zerg so someone else can probably give you better advice on what to do in that situation as far as build options goes. The times I have zerged I just never felt my individual contribution as much as when I am in a small group or running solo. I understand many people can only seem to find this type of action on their servers. I am in TC now (moved from SoR), so it’s only a t2 server at the moment and I find plenty of opportunity for small group solo play, which is partially why I moved, because I just don’t enjoy zergs lol

Sagramor.7395:

ShadowPuppet.3746:

Sagramor.7395:

First of all what are we talking here? PvE/PvP/WvW

Pistol/Shield often serves as a secondary weapon to a kit, not as the primary. Also I’m pretty sure most builds will utilize at least one kit. Just think of kit swapping as swapping weapons on any of the other professions.

The only builds I can think of where you’re going to be spending the vast majority of your time using your weapon are (Rifle) Static Discharge, P/P (non-Nade) HGH, or Rifle HGH. None of those use P/S, and only the Rifle builds use your Zerker gear.

Yeah, it was challenging to try and make a build that fit within his/her criteria of not using any kits and using a pistol shield and still maintain at least some amount of damage output. I just couldn’t think of any that exactly matched so I tried to get as close as I could with using only 1 kit to simulate having a weapon swap, and still using the p/s. It still isn’t going to be as effective as other options but they seemed to indicate not wanting to use gk either so with very little to go on, I tried lol.

I’m actually trying different Bomb Kit builds in WvW at the moment. One with my condition gear and one with my old Tankcat gear. I took a look at the build you linked, and I had never considered a Bomb Kit HGH build. I’d offer up a tweak though. Rifled Barrels can probably be dropped and put into Explosives for either Incendiary Ammo, Short Fuse, or Enhanced Performance. Or For more defense/utility put those points into Inventions for Cloaking Device/Reinforced Shield. That’d also give you a recharge on Elixir H at 25%.

Yeah, after thinking about it a bit more last night I actually came to the same conclusion about rifled barrels. Just not sure which route would be better served, having more burning or better defensive options. Either way I think the build is severely limited in damage potential by staying in the criteria that I used to make it (no gk, using p/s, and only one kit) so that was why I decided to throw in hgh hoping that the extra might stacks will offset the much less variety of conditions but I need to thoroughly test it before I can come to any real conclusion about it’s effectiveness.

Conan.8046:

Sylentir.8913:

Overland autoattack wouldn’t be the best idea and here’s why:

Grenades are SLOOOOOW.

Necromancers constantly complain about their staff #1, guardians used to complain about their sceptre #1. Grenades are slower. They are very powerful, they have amazing AoE damage, they can work with both conditions and direct damage, but are slow. If you autoattacked, you’d never be able to hit a moving target.

TBH they are stupidly long ranged…why would you make the slowest projectile in the game have the longest range…

Because twisted and broken game physics? I think I understand their thinking in that you are lobbing them and they take a arc trajectory but that does not account for being able to throw them further than a rifle or bow. Mostly it’s probably just to keep them “balanced” relatively speaking. If you are just blowing up a area and constantly lobbing only the first impact takes a long time to get to the target. So in a sense maybe they envisioned them as being used as a area denial tool. Idk really it’s all guess work when it comes to Anet.

Phineas Poe.3018:

Bloodgruve.6038:

So, in my test Acid Bomb can crit for a total of 10872 or 724.8DPS

It should be doing a lot more DPS than that, even without Deadly Mixture.

How did you come to reach this number? How were you testing this?

If I have to guess, it’s taking the cooldown length into consideration. 10872/15= 724.8. If the fight is shorter than 15 seconds the dps value increases significantly, if it is longer than 15 seconds it still adds 724.8 dps if it is used every cooldown and averaged over the length of the encounter. The actual dps number of 724.8 will increase depending on a variety of factors including as you mentioned deadly mixture, skill cooldown reductions, how much might and vuln is on the target and any other incidental party damage increase you have. To calculate true dps values of a skill though you absolutely have to factor into the equation the cooldown, activation and aftercast time. Or in the case of something like acid bomb in this example for him where it ticks for 5 seconds but takes the full 5 seconds before it reaches the final tick of the damage total then has a 10 second cd from the final tick, it actually means it still takes 15 seconds before it reaches it’s full damage potential to a fight that lasts longer than one cooldown length.

Given the nature of the combat in this game (mostly from a pve standpoint) alot of people actually mix up DPA (damage per activation) with DPS (damage per second). This is what has led to proclamations from so many that warrior is the king of dps “because 100b hits hard”. Let’s look at an example of that skill, let’s say it does 30k damage it takes 3.5 seconds to get to it’s last hit and then goes on a 8 second cooldown (6 if traited I believe but I don’t play a warrior so someone else can probably answer that part) 30k over 11.5 seconds of time equals 2608.69 dps now in that same time period how much damage can they pull off using their auto attack for axe? Chances are in a 11.5 second time period they will far surpass the damage they get from 100b, but where and why 100b is useful is because it can increase dps over very short time periods (during a timewarp for example) or to burst down trash type of mobs that will be dead if the whole group is bursting on open (front loading damage). Engineer becomes a bit more complicated because we have many more options to layer our damage simultaneously so where each individual skill may hit for less we can get multiple skills to hit at the same time.

I will admit that my understanding of calculating actual dps values could potentially be flawed, but I know there are a few others that share the same view of it as I do, primarily being GuanglaiKangyi over at gw2guru (pretty sure that is his name on these forums as well). I think most classes are actually much closer in performance in their “optimal” damage dealing specs than people realize, the difference of course is ease of use and what other party buffs they can bring to the table.

Alkaholic.3875:

@ ShadowPuppet.3746,

What build do YOU run? I always see ur comments and was curious what someone who has spent considerable time analyzing and number crunching runs…

Well that is a complicated answer to be honest, I don’t use just one particular build. It will vary based on the particular content and group composition we are taking (almost always full zerker gear for pve though). I rarely pug so it makes it easier for me to do this. I would say if you want to be able to adapt to most situations the easiest, running 30/15/0/0/25 or 30/5/0/10/25 are going to be your best bets. One will give you slightly more damage potential through increase crit chance and the other slightly better survival potential through having permanent vigor. Both of those builds will use the HT, GK, BK, and EG and P/S. The build posted in this thread by the op is highly specialized and tailored really to a specific group comp and playstyle to achieve it’s maximum efficiency.

Have a look here for some good info and happy engineering!
http://www.guildwars2guru.com/topic/82395-guide-to-grenades-in-pve/ This is a fantastic write up, and the poster there really knows his stuff (seriously he is like a spreadsheet guru)

Sagramor.7395:

First of all what are we talking here? PvE/PvP/WvW

Pistol/Shield often serves as a secondary weapon to a kit, not as the primary. Also I’m pretty sure most builds will utilize at least one kit. Just think of kit swapping as swapping weapons on any of the other professions.

The only builds I can think of where you’re going to be spending the vast majority of your time using your weapon are (Rifle) Static Discharge, P/P (non-Nade) HGH, or Rifle HGH. None of those use P/S, and only the Rifle builds use your Zerker gear.

Yeah, it was challenging to try and make a build that fit within his/her criteria of not using any kits and using a pistol shield and still maintain at least some amount of damage output. I just couldn’t think of any that exactly matched so I tried to get as close as I could with using only 1 kit to simulate having a weapon swap, and still using the p/s. It still isn’t going to be as effective as other options but they seemed to indicate not wanting to use gk either so with very little to go on, I tried lol.

Alkaholic.3875:

@ShadowPuppet.3746,

I have full apothecary exotic (alturism runes) and ascended gear, 2 giver’s pistols, shaman shield and pistol. Create a build for pve and wvw that can actually kill people while being survivable. Perplexity runes?

I will leave this here for you since you mentioned perplexity runes and apothecary gear (though I think he has some mixed other trinkets iirc) It includes the build link and some gameplay footage .
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/engineer/Stop-hitting-your-self-WvW-Roaming-video/first#post2647151

Phineas Poe.3018:

ShadowPuppet.3746:

Is energy conversion matrix per each boon or per each unique boon (same way mesmer’s iWarlock functions)? I have a feeling it is per each unique boon otherwise it seems ridiculously overpowered compared to any other flat damage boost trait in the game.

It’s per unique boon, so 25 stacks of Might is considered “one” boon in the eyes of Energy Conversion Matrix, similar to Warrior’s Empowered.

ShadowPuppet.3746:

Having said that, the trait distribution that phin uses 0/25/0/20/25 is really the best trait distribution (assuming that ecm is per unique boon) for doing damage with the ft, I suppose I should have made that clearer in the post I made, that it’s the trait distribution that makes it “ideal” for such a role. The build you have linked would still work in such a trait distribution, you simply would need to either drop juggenaut (which is of questionable value in a organized group as another poster mentioned), or drop the cd reduction on rifle. What you gain is faster toolbelt recharges for sd, 10% more crit damage (which works out to only about 4% increase in actual damage value) and a true 10% damage increase at full endurance and gives you the ability to have constant vigor with the addition of speedy kits.

edit: also as a sidenote if you drop jugg. it won’t require you to stay in the ft to use it’s auto which, is just so very blah for actual dps numbers compared to just about any other auto in the game, this is of course assuming your party is able to stack might effectively.

Keep in mind the purpose of my build and my thread is for players that want to use the Flamethrower and want the optimal setup for wielding it. If all you care about is adding Flame Blast into your build, then by all means drop Juggernaut. But I don’t see how a build is an “FT build” if you’re not actually staying in the FT but just using Flame Blast.

You also have to remember that the 5-9 stacks of Might from Juggernaut benefit your other abilities, including Acid Bomb, Blunderbuss, and Jump Shot. You will get more damage staying in the FT compiling Might through Sigil of Strength and Juggernaut than you will dropping to your Rifle and auto-attacking with Hip Shot.

I agree with you phin, I understand that is the intention of your build. It’s clearly a dps/support hybrid and I use it quite frequently. My statement about the auto attack on the ft being pretty terrible really just comes from the standpoint of if your party is already able to maintain 25 might. In pugs this rarely happens I realize, but in organized groups it does happen quite frequently. I wouldn’t really call the ft/sd build a pure ft build either in my opinion since you spend so much time switching out of the ft in favor of rifle attacks and then also the toolkit anyway. My response was really directed more to blood’s build than yours, I was just trying to use a comparable. The build he posted is intended to do something different from what your build is, his is a pure dps build and as such from a pure dps standpoint ft auto is not even remotely the best option we have available given that might stacking is taken care of by the party. Having said this though from a numbers perspective the trait distribution you use is ideal for achieving the goal of pushing dps for a sd build like what blood’s example is where he is using the ft instead of say bombs or a simple rifle sd build. I didn’t mean it as a criticism of your build or it’s intent.

Bloodgruve.6038:

I’ve been doing so DPS testing, wasted a day building a spreadsheet to compare builds and classes. Although not 100% accurate I think its giving me some decent numbers to compare. From my testing Bomb Kit/SD is the highest DPS if you have others in the group supplying 18+ stacks of vulnerability. Grenades/SD matches it if you supply 15 stacks. But with a FT/SD build you are only about 11% behind them in DPS. The trick is to cycle through your cooldowns and hit them as soon as they become available, and it works well for us Engi’s cuz we don’t have swap cooldowns to hinder us. If you hit FT2, R3, R4, TK3 and all your toolbelt skills on cooldown you will do respectable damage. Static Discharge and damaging toolbelts add respectable dps. It’s also rewarding game play once you get used to it.

Is energy conversion matrix per each boon or per each unique boon (same way mesmer’s iWarlock functions against unique conditions)? I have a feeling it is per each unique boon otherwise it seems ridiculously overpowered compared to any other flat damage boost trait in the game. Having said that, the trait distribution that phin uses 0/25/0/20/25 is really the best trait distribution (assuming that ecm is per unique boon) for doing damage with the ft, I suppose I should have made that clearer in the post I made, that it’s the trait distribution that makes it “ideal” for such a role. The build you have linked would still work in such a trait distribution, you simply would need to either drop juggenaut (which is of questionable value in a organized group as another poster mentioned), or drop the cd reduction on rifle. What you gain is faster toolbelt recharges for sd, 10% more crit damage (which works out to only about 4% increase in actual damage value) and a true 10% damage increase at full endurance and gives you the ability to have constant vigor with the addition of speedy kits.
edit: also as a sidenote if you drop jugg. it won’t require you to stay in the ft to use it’s auto which, is just so very blah for actual dps numbers compared to just about any other auto in the game, this is of course assuming your party is able to stack might effectively. Also as your tests have shown it is behind bomb and grenades in terms of damage, and it really doesn’t bring anything to the group, no vuln stacks, very little group might, so basically you have a subpar dps build (compared to other options) with no group utility whatsoever. The only thing it really has going for it is the fact that it’s the flamethrower and it’s fun to use. At least in phins build, he brings quite a bit of group utility through offering more team might, fury and group condi cleanse.

Sylentir.8913:

Overland autoattack wouldn’t be the best idea and here’s why:

Grenades are SLOOOOOW.

Necromancers constantly complain about their staff #1, guardians used to complain about their sceptre #1. Grenades are slower. They are very powerful, they have amazing AoE damage, they can work with both conditions and direct damage, but are slow. If you autoattacked, you’d never be able to hit a moving target.

A poster above gave the best solution to this, simply make it so they continually attack but adjust with where you move your cursor, maybe make it so you more or less get a on/off switch for them (obviously using another skill would take priority over auto).

A few things about your build,
1.) zerker armor is absolutely going to give you a impression that you are not doing enough damage, you have literally only 3 attacks to choose from (pistol auto scales horribly with power stats alone).

2.) As someone else stated you can take just one kit to simulate having a weapon swap like any other class and you can replace elixir u without too much of an impact to do it. My personal favorite choices would be bomb kit or toolkit, both of which give you a melee option for when things get too close. One offers a pulsing smoke field blind (bk) and one offers a additional block (tk)

3.) Some of your traits are not giving you as much benefit as you imagine them to be and you are missing out on some important ones like cleansing formula 409 (in pve you probably don’t need that trait though)

4.) If you want to use the pistol shield and are willing to at least use 1 kit to swap then going a condition damage build with rabid type stats would most likely yield significantly better results

I will include a possible build for you to try, you can gear it up cheaply using rare or even masterwork to see if it is something you will enjoy but in the build editor I will include exotics (just find the rare or masterwork counterparts) Benefits of this build (once in full exotics) will include decent toughness (2700), ridiculously high condition damage (1692 base), especially once hgh gets your might stacks up, Quite good condition removal (6). Access to burning and confusion on the bomb kit, additional cc/defense in form of the smoke bomb and glue bomb, or confusion and a additional bleed source on the tool kit + a additional block and pull which can be used both offensively to get someone closer to you or defensively to interrupt a long channel skill from a distance. Decent crit chance to help proc additional bleeds and with using rare veggie pizza as your food a additional 40% condition duration which will also help stack them up. You can swap out the rune sets I have in there with whatever you want really, either condition duration or boon duration would be the best bets at the expense of losing quite a bit of toughness condi damage. So it is a tough choice between having harder hitting condi’s or longer lasting condi/boons. Without further ado
http://intothemists.com/calc/?build=-V;4Z;09-o5cQFx0;9;49J9T-2;053-0;019A;9NX8aNX8aPtki-M;4VX-d0h1l2sZy49eWPk4R06Rk06R;9;9;9;9;9;4V6s5W It is not the only option by in large but it should yield significantly better performance for you than the current setup you have included, while being significantly “tankier”. Of course in pve it will suffer from the same achilles heel that all condition builds do in large events/dungeons with conditions being overwritten so easily. In wvw you should find much better success with this for solo/ small group roaming, and it’s generally a pretty easy and relatively fun playstyle in my opinion with the switching in between melee and range. Give it a shot try it out with the cheaper gear first so you don’t spend a ton regearing and happy engineering!
Edit: If you do wish to use rifle as stand alone and one additional kit (toolkit) and stay with power based stats, then you can just run a rifle sd build. You will do fantastic damage but the downside is lack of condition removal and it’s really squishy compared to other options.

While I agree with Kal, I have always felt the price too steep for them, but maybe that is because I refuse to play farmwars2 running around in mindless roving bands that are hellbent on doing the same exact thing for hours and hours on end. Guess I will just stay broke, at least I have exotic gear and complete content, just stinks not having my cultural set even this far in the game because I can’t see to justify paying that much money for skins.

ARM.3912:

Nikkinella.8254:

Why are you surprised? After all the repeated nerfs, we’re terrible right now. We never were the best class, people just thought we were OP because they were scrubs and we had unpredictability and we were pretty mobile. But now everyone is used to all eles tricks and learned how to counter us, like they should have done before screaming for us to be nerfed into the ground. But we still got nerfed anyway so we suck. I started out as an ele, but I’ve been spending more and more time on my guardian and warrior lately. They’re just so much better in every conceivable way. Anything an ele can do, they can do exponentially better. Seriously, just roll another class at this point. The difference is like night and day. After playing another class our weakness becomes even more apparent. The only problem is i’m quickly becoming bored with them. They’re nowhere near as fun as ele.

So true, ele’s are unplayable garbage now and the only path is to reroll. Sadly, other classes are just so easy to play it gets boring fast. On my thief I have to be fighting at least 3 to have any fun.

Could be worse, you could be a mesmer. Try getting tags with them in a large zerg of utter kitteness. I wouldn’t worry too much about this particular issue to be honest, anet is looking into changing the ember farm and besides, it is dreadfully boring! LH ele’s in a good dungeon group top the dps charts by a fair margin, but yeah you reeeeeally need to be on your A game and know the encounters well to play that effectively. I would say don’t give up hope completely, class balance is a on going thing. In the meantime, if you really are feeling so disheartened about playing ele, just play something else for a bit. My suggestion would be a engineer since they are the only other class that can present you with a high apm playstyle if you don’t mind the kit juggling, and they can pull off some pretty amazing stuff once you get the hang of them. So much of their potential is not straight forward (much like ele). Then when anet decides to go around making their changes again you can revisit ele, or just whenever you miss playing it etc etc.

Phineas Poe.3018:

Edit: Just condensing the final point because I really think that’s all that matters.

Decklan.7540:

I have to admit, I was looking at this whole thing from a wvw standpoint, and I understand why spvper’s might think it would be very very very OP. I also feel that most of the people who agree that we need torment might play wvw more than spvp.

Well, I am not an “sPvPer.” I am an “everything-er,” and I’ve probably allotted way more hours in Eternal Battlegrounds and Borderlands than I have in the Heart of the Mists. WXP is a recent thing, so it’s really no proper measure, but it’s still way above what my rank in sPvP is. On multiple characters.

Decklan.7540:

I realize that this game has a long way to go before class balance is achieved across all three facets of the game (wvw, pve, pvp) and that some classes shine in some areas and are completely terrible in others.

Sure, but the Engineer doesn’t suffer from this issue. We aren’t “completely terrible” in any area of Guild Wars 2 … are we?

Decklan.7540:

It just angers me to no end seeing all of these 20v20 GvG battles with a big fat no-engineer sign in front. I had the idea in my head that if we brought aoe torment, then maybe engineers would be more accepted in the wvw meta.

Just don’t worry about it, because who cares about GvG anyway. It’s not even a real thing.

It still confuses me how people can argue that a class that is so powerful at 5v5 all of a sudden becomes useless just because you increase the number of players involved.

The main achilles heel for engi’s in those GvG fights is retaliation, they stack duration in the blob with their guardians, and then use warriors for knockdown trains. Which leaves us with grenades to avoid the knockdown train which puts us at huge risk to the retal on the group, it’s not uncommon to take 5k damage from retal from one grenade toss (each grenade hits 5 people, times 3 grenades). Which pushes us basically into using either bombkit, tk, rifle, or ft (which is arguably just as bad in the same situation in regards to retal), all of which require us to get up close and personal to use and with the lack of stability that is not a good option either because of the hard cc these front lines are using. It’s the one scenario that having a aoe that does not cap at 5 targets is actually a hindrance. I read your opinion in another thread regarding this very matter, I know you think it is always a l2p issue, but the fact of the matter is that there very much are guilds that use this as a tactic, it makes perfect sense for them to coordinate in such a manner. I know you can check for the boons, but you don’t have time to check every player in that scenario before unleashing. If they have a back line consisting of the ele’s (waterfield support) necro’s or whatever else they bring along maybe a mesmer, you can attack them with less risk of dying to retal but you have to position yourself accordingly which often times will leave you basically on your own for any thieves they decide to bring a long to pick off stragglers. These are not hypothetical situations some guilds really do organize in large scale combat, not all…but some. I love the engineer it is my favorite class bar none, but it does have some distinct disadvantages for these guilds to try and fit them into their lineups. I don’t particularly find the mass style of combat to my liking regardless of some of the issues I have faced with it so it is really a moot point for me, since I prefer to solo or small team roam because that is really where a engineer can make a huge impact on the outcome of a given encounter.

Diremongoose.1326:

I’ve been having a decent amount of success with a full clerics build and elixir bombs. The trick is to support the team damage with AoE might using fire bomb combined with blast finishers (Big old bomb, shield 4, elixir gun acid bomb, supply drop). When you stack regen with healing bombs and super elixir, the results are quite pleasing, even in tough dungeon fights.

I run with my zerker armor/accessories in my pack as well, so I can swap roles on the fly, but I rarely have to.

Yeah, I don’t want to give the impression that it just doesn’t work completely. Certainly in a pug group where you have no idea what you are going to get it can be useful. I guess that is why I wanted to make the distinction between viable and optimal, in a group that knows the encounters/dungeons well it really is not optimal because you “can” get through the content, but if everyone is running in max dps gear and builds the healing power won’t offset the loss of damage where they rely on everyone to be doing as much damage as possible. This holds true even in the tougher dungeons, where things like a proper reflect, dodge, whatever other means for damage negation the group has available will far outstrip any amount of healing power, toughness or vitality in terms of effectiveness. I don’t want it to sound like I am one of those everyone must wear zerker or they are scubs type of people because that is not how I feel about it. I have however reached a point where I have seen just how effective a damage oriented group is in comparison to one who is not and the difference is like night and day, again this is highly encumbant upon everyone in the group knowing the encounters and dungeons well. I am not even talking about just speedclears, because man I hated the obnoxious behavior of the majority of the cof p1 speedclear groups.

galandor.1059:

I am just trying to figure out what will yield the most DPS. It is good to know though that my build has perma fury, would probably require some in depth testing to find out which situations do the most damage.

http://intothemists.com/guides/guide.php?id=257 As much as you want the ft to be a dps powerhouse it simply will never be compared to other options available to the engi. That isn’t to say you can’t do some respectable damage with it but there are better options. Having said that, take a look at the above build guide, it will net you the most potential damage you can get out of the ft (in a party situation) while providing some much better group support (and acid bomb hits like a truck provided the mobs don’t move out of it). Chances are in a party you will have other people providing fury; warriors, rangers, (these two also provide banner of discipline and spotter/frost spirit) and ele’s. The only thing your build provides is better vuln stacking (which is a consideration for pugs I suppose if you don’t have other people to stack it) but to be honest the grenade kit is the way to go in regards to that. The build you posted may net you potentially better dps when soloing or in a group that is not optimized very well, but from a group standpoint that is optimized it does not provide much that can’t be covered by other classes in which case it actually becomes weaker by losing out on all the other things that the build that was posted includes. For sake of credit, this is the build posted by Phineas Poe.
Edit: If you don’t like the stacking sigil then yes sigil of night is a better option provided the dungeon you are fighting in actually takes place at night (which many do) or could be replaced with a sigil of force.

Yamsandjams.3267:

It generally comes down to rabid vs. carrion gear for this kind of stuff. I’ve always preferred carrion gear myself since you get a direct damage boost and a better armor-health balance, but it’s something you might have to experiment with.

There is no ascended gear that has carrion stats yet, so you’ll probably want to go rabid for those as well.

There’s also rampager’s gear, but I find that might not be as useful on an engg as it is on other classes, unless you’re perhaps also getting a fair bit of crit damage boost somehow.

As far as the perplexity runes go, it might be a bit hard to capitalize on that 6th rune bonus… it would depend on your utilities, although the shield could be very helpful in that regard as well.

Rampager’s is best suited for gk on a engi, but it does not have any survival stats. I still use zerker when using gk for pve at least. Apothecary gear and mixing trinket types can net having some good stat mix as in the example build and video that was posted. Rabid is a easy choice, gives high toughness and precision and is easy to get. With having b.o.b, shield (kb and daze), toolkit pull, and supply drop you have more than enough ways to interrupt people. If you feel you can get away from using elixir s, throw mine is a good option or even ft which gives an additional aoe blind and kb on a relatively short cd. If you watch the video, there are a few times where he gets 25 stacks of confusion on the target which is pretty bananas, sad that it takes 25 stacks to do the work that you could use to do with half that amount. When I do decide to pve with the build and runes in pve (mostly just soloing stuff) I can get 6k ticks of confusion since it did not get nerfed there lol and with the duration it actually makes it not worthless, unless of course you do anything with large amounts of people.

Alkaholic.3875:

Actually after getting some gear, I wakittenting 6k and I had sigil of force and was wearing a green ring and 2 green trinkets. Everything else was ascended or exotic. If the champ hit me once I was dead though.

Yeah this build takes a pretty specific group comp and playstyle to really survive and shine (everyone needs to be max dps they can get from their build because you want stuff to die as fast as possible to lessen the chances that you are going to get hit), I usually run it with a guardian, warrior,ranger,me as engi, and the last slot switched depending on what we need. But everyone needs to melee, and know the encounters well. Against open world zerg champion events like in orr, my pc is just too crap to handle all the commotion and I get like 8fps so I can’t run it because one missed dodge or block is death. So my feeling is this build is capable of doing fantastic damage, but it is probably not the most pug friendly build we have available to us. The build that knox has posted is probably the better choice when running pugs, since it gives you a bit more versatility in being able to range or stay in close, both builds you really can’t go wrong with, probably put up actually better numbers with the gk build over longer fights, but the simplicity of this build is what makes it appealing.

TxJBxT.9370:

Hmm I’ll give it a shot and reply how it goes. Thanks!

Also don’t get discouraged if you find yourself facing overwhelming odds, even a 1v2 can be extremely difficult for most players (especially if those players happen to be good). You alway see in these videos that get posted their successful fights, rarely do you see when they don’t win. The engineer class has a high skill floor and ceiling, meaning it takes a lot more effort to learn it just to be on a average level of another class, but it has enough room for self growth that you can be capable of doing some amazing things. If you solo alot, find areas where you can use the terrain to your advantage and pick your fights…nothing says if you don’t like the odds that you have to engage, much better to choose when and where you fight. Good luck and happy engineering!

I will leave this here https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/engineer/Stop-hitting-your-self-WvW-Roaming-video/first#post2647151. You could probably run this with straight rabid gear and have just as much success, always tough to balance and will just take some experimenting.

A few general ideas, remember the more kits you add into a build the more “complicated” the build is going to be and require better timing and skill management on your part to be successful. To start, I would try a dual pistol/hgh build. Elixir H as your heal, elixir b for the fury and other boons, elixir s for the breathing room, and your choice for the other elixir you want to use. This typical build will give you 8 potential condition cleanses (through cleansing formula 409), plenty of might stacking, and some decent deffensive options with having a blind and a aoe cripple. The best part about the build is the simplicity to play, there is no kit swapping needed and you can run something like a rabid set of armor which gives lots of toughness. For runes there are a couple of options, if you want to maximize your defensive/offensive potential you would want runes that increase boon duration, if you want to maximize offensive potential you would want condi duration (this is debatable but the hope is you can get your condi duration high enough that it is higher than the people who wear negative condition duration runes). http://intothemists.com/calc/?build=-V;4Z;0h0u53UFx0;9;49J9T-4;035-0;019A;1aJ;4TutbUqLQPtkicA;4VX-d0h1l2sZy49eWPV-7-6Rk06R;9;9;9;9;9;4V6s5i this is the build I use, it is probably not the most optimized build, but I really find that having the protection on crit does wonders against certain thieves in eating that opening burst, if you can’t dodge it or don’t see them coming. Alternatively if you are not concerned about the might stacks (which do increase damage potential a lot) you can run automated response or protection injection in it’s place. Hope this helps some, there are of course many different options available, it can be overwhelming at times. Best advice I can give is to just keep trying and practice practice practice.

Kalan.9705:

The problem with super elixir is you can kill your allies, wipe your zerg, kill your ram users etc with it, just by denying them water blast healing for 10 seconds.

The nerfs to super elixir were too harsh. Halve it’s duration, double it’s heal per tick, make it a 5sec water field.

This is true for every field that gets dropped before a waterfield, since it goes oldest to newest, and is not unique to super elixir. I will agree that it is not large zerg friendly (much like everything engineer in the current meta) because players try to use the skill in the incorrect fashion. While I would like to see us have some slightly longer lasting water fields I would rather see those changes in the fields we currently have, rather than lose out on a different field type which has much much better potential in anything other than zerging.

In my opinion, if they adjusted retal in some fashion it would actually fix the majority of the problems. It’s just right now if you start spamming nades into a group with it on them it’s pretty much game over for the engi. I think the problem is that individually retal is not that strong of a deterrent but when you have a group of people with it yeah….anyone who has had it happen to them knows exactly what I am talking about heh. Just not sure how retal could be adjusted in a manner that is actually fair for all it’s considerations. As it stands now it does put engineer in a relatively terrible position in the zerg meta, I have had some marginal success building high toughness and just going into a backline harasser role trying to break up the rear(if there is one) usng slick shoes and rb to turn myself into a human bowling ball… but it has little impact without proper timing and coordination of your zerg to not leave you basically strung out on the line. Not having a really suitable niche role to fulfill in the current zerg meta is not so much of an issue for me I suppose since I am much like MonMalthias and prefer small group/solo roam where I can feel a much higher impact of my personal performance (or even lack thereof sometimes…don’t judge we all have our days :P), but I can understand why others might be disappointed they can’t find a place.

ukuni.8745:

@shadowpuppet

i’ve seen a few people make the zerg argument so far, but i don’t know how it really apply’s, confusion like every other condition are always going to be less favorable in zerg v zerg (unless you tend to duck around the side and magnet people away from there zerg ), what i mean is whats the difference between stacking 25 bleeds instead of confusion…….nothing they will both be removed no matter what in a ZvZ situation.

i was also dueling a buddy today with it, tested it on his guardian and necro, his guardian he isn’t as good at so the main approach was to see if it could survive and it couldn’t, his necro however was alot more nasty but if he couldn’t get me with condition transfers it was all over, he inevitable started getting the upper hand once he learned my movement patterns but even then it was still very even fight, also fighting cc trains isn’t very hard guardians and warriors stun/cc is all melee range which is perfect for an engineer using bombkit and p/s, so far condition mesmer’s have been the only really tricky one to beat

That was my entire point, is that it is not effective against the zerg, the only place it has a huge impact is in a 1v1 scenario. Anet has stated they don’t intend to balance around 1v1’s. Mesmer is amazingly powerful in a 1v1 scenario (that was what all the crying was always about) which resulted in them getting nerfs which impact not just their performance in a 1v1 but also in a group setting. Making a claim that something is strong in one area so therefore it should be nerfed is just a terrible way to approach balance,the entire picture must be considered. As far as dueling your friend he doesn’t main guardian and is not comfortable playing and he lost (he probably would have lost without these runes then). Playing against the necro, he figured out how to counter and was able to win, that’s counterplay, and most classes have some way to beat another, maybe not with every build but certainly there is no such thing as a truly unbeatable build or class. Rock paper scissors, that is balance not making all things equal, unless we wish to turn everything into a homogeneous clone of one another. Let it take time to develop, see what happens…if it becomes blatantly obvious that it is a huge problem then they should look at it. As it stands now, I think it’s a nice niche to fit in with the engineer. Of course this is just my opinion, I am not trying to present anything as fact, I just dislike how unstable and how quickly things are cried foul resulting in huge swings of the nerfhammer that often miss their mark.

Talek.6795:

Fjandi.2516:

+1
I didn’t play ranger ever. I’m not against having a pet BUT the pet mechanic was simply badly implemented. Fix it or change it. Also i’m tired of playing with or against AI controlled things in s/tpvp.

Talek.6795:

play thief or warrior if you want dmg from yourself

I’m so tired of reading this kitten tbh…

fxd.

then don’t come to ranger’s forums, if you even can’t control your pet and you think that all you needto do just push attack button and forget about pet in fight.

Tell me, when you are fighting in melee range and you need to evade an attack and you dodge to negate your damage, how do you get your pet to avoid the damage? Even if you recall the pet to you, it’s not fast enough nor is it retreating far enough to miss getting hit. Recalling your pet only works if you are at range, and despite “Range” being in the name Ranger (the most ridiculous argument I have ever heard for the defense of something btw), there is no reason to believe that everyone should have to use a bow, especially given that it’s been proven time and time again that melee will out damage ranged nearly every time if you know the encounter well. This is from a pve perspective obviously where bosses are more than capable of one shotting you or your pet.

See the thing is Decklan, I don’t think you would get so much negativity if you didn’t generate so much of it yourself. From the tone of all your posts that I have seen in these forums (no I am not stalking you, just the other topics that I have read that I have seen you post in) they are almost always inflammatory or sensationalist in nature as soon as someone disagrees with you. I am sure you are a skilled player, I am sure from your perspective your points are valid, but just because you feel they are valid does not make it so. Insulting people and calling them pathetic because they don’t agree with you does little to impress upon anyone why they should consider what you are saying. Just tone it down some, seriously I think you will find people much more receptive to at least discuss their point of view with you.
Edit: I would also like to point out that the quote you said was from another post and the person was stalking you was from this very thread.

Celeras.4980:

I was planning on a build revolving around Elixir Infused Bombs. Is this viable?

Viable yes, optimal no. Even with high amounts of healing power the bombs don’t provide much in terms of healing to offset the much much lower damage you would have by going that route. Even if you take a damage gearset instead, having to go 30 points down a line that has nothing to do with damage will cripple your ability to do so. This is of course from a dungeon perspective where the mobs hit too hard and have too much hp and the best course of action is almost always maximum dps and completely negating the damage coming in through a blind, block,dodge, or the mob being dead. I wish it wasn’t that way, but the sad reality is that is a design flaw of the dungeons. That isn’t to say you would not be able to complete content using a healing bomb build, so that is why it’s “viable”, but you will be carried by your group in terms of effectiveness so it is far from “optimal”.

I suppose I see the points being made about how this runeset could be considered op. It seems to me though it is truly only effective to stack large confusion amounts on a single target, of course if you have a pocket necro around they could really take advantage of this with epi (thankfully this runeset does not work with fear). I don’t see it as being overpowered since generally speaking Anet does not balance around 1v1 encounters or so the story goes. At least with a class like engineer, in order to truly benefit from it you have to be in close to melee range, and with having a lack of stability trying to use this to consistent effect against the current zerg meta which already includes daze stun knockdown trains I think would end up resulting in you being downed just as much with little relative payoff since most everyone in those groups run tons of condi removal. In a small group encounter it can certainly be effective, but it is not as if this has no counter play to it. As I mentioned counterplay, if anyone of those players were able to hard cc you, or had packed in some better condi removal options the results would have been vastly different in many situations. Anyhow, this is just my opinion I think the runeset needs to be out a little longer to see how much of a impact it will truly have before trying to call for a nerf to it.

+1
The pets should simply be an additional source of damage, not have the ranger’s damage cut by 40-60% because the pet cannot achieve the goal it was intended due to poor ai in a fast paced combat environment. At this point, the mechanic does more wrong than it does right and almost warrants a complete overhaul. The very minimum change would be to make them able to negate non targeted damage in some manner since they simply are not responsive enough in either ai or direct commands to keep them alive in many situations (not all, but many) and possibly look at the downstate cooldown length. There have been many fantastic alternative suggestions that don’t force using the pet it would be nice if Anet would at least perhaps rethink their stance about the mechanic.