Guild Wars 2

Ladies and Gentlemen, I would like to direct your attention to this thread: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Recount-would-be-great/page/5#post4467192

Lot’s of responses and don’t expect anyone to read through them all, but it’s fairly telling what you are up against. There is actually one person who admits to being openly deceptive about his gear but refuses to acknowledge that people that make a group have a right to choose who they play with. Apparently by his logic the only people that have that right is the “casual” crowd since people who run meta don’t know anything.

Anymras.5729:

kyubi.3620:

It still come down to 2 or 3 vs 1 him. Again since T engy is a specimen of bunker its no surprise. As far as I know I make lots of kills running that thing in Spvp and unless I get my turret destroyed by a pair of GS guard/warrior I generaly keep them all up at all time. Boon turrets are actualy a serious buff when party actualy help defend a point, Place them down anywhere there is a mass brawl and the whole team just became utherly beefed up.

Yeah, Turret Engineer makes a great bunker or support – so it’s pretty good for sPvP.

I’m actually starting to think that Turrets might need redesigned or replaced entirely, though; they’re in this position where they’re great for sPvP, but rubbish most other places, making them difficult to balance without ending up sending them off the deep end in one direction or the other.

Anet just needs to come off their high horse and finally balance for separate game modes. One set of rules for the ways skills and traits behave for sPvP and one set for everything else. Either that or completely redesigning sPvP to not be conquest mode.

Nice job as always Ganda.

Etien.4601:

We already have lesbian relationships ingame. So what’s next? Gay marriages?

Why not?

Conncept.7638:

ShadowPuppet.3746:

Conncept.7638:

ShadowPuppet.3746:

because of the selfish nature being exhibited….

And once again a giant baseless assumption in the very first sentence.

I wanted the dungeon run, they wanted the dungeon run, we all wanted it done fast and without running in to problems. My taking the position got it done fast, and without problems, just as well as anyone else would have. Every reason every member of the group joined was fulfilled by every other member of the group and divvied out in equal measure to everyone involved, including me.

So, if my drive, my actions, and the results of my actions were both ‘selfish’ and exactly the same as those of everyone else, then wasn’t everyone involved selfish?

I’m seriously confused about this, because where I come from, working with others for mutual benefit is, y’know, the opposite of being selfish. :-/

Did the group specifically state they wanted only players wearing zerker gear? If you intentionally were deceptive then it’s selfish… end of story. People are not deceptive because they are being altruistic.

I know you will never see it that way, you feel your right to play how you want supersedes anyone else’s desire to play how they want. There really is nothing more that can be said on the matter. Thank you for the conversation, be well.

Well since we’re throwing logic completely out the window.

It wasn’t selfish, end of story.

Is that how that works now? Just three words and you don’t actually have to provide any logical train of thought? Why did my debate teacher never teach me this? MY LIFE IS A LIE!

I did not hurt anyone in any way, shape, or form. And you have failed to prove in any way that my actions were selfishly driven. No amount of accusation or assumption change those facts. I would thank-you for a conversation, but a conversation requires that two people provide content of substance pertaining to the subject, which frankly, you didn’t.

You were intentionally deceptive yes? What was the motivation for that deception? If you did not perform the deception then would you not have been invited to join the group? So the intention of deceiving is selfish because you used the deception as a means to allow yourself to join a group that may have said “no thank you” if you were honest about how your character was geared. Whether or not you got through the dungeon or did not slow the group down is irrelevant. If a person puts a clearly defined expectation for the group they made and you use deception as a means to include yourself in that group as opposed to being honest with them there really isn’t another word to use besides it being selfish.

Conncept.7638:

ShadowPuppet.3746:

because of the selfish nature being exhibited….

And once again a giant baseless assumption in the very first sentence.

I wanted the dungeon run, they wanted the dungeon run, we all wanted it done fast and without running in to problems. My taking the position got it done fast, and without problems, just as well as anyone else would have. Every reason every member of the group joined was fulfilled by every other member of the group and divvied out in equal measure to everyone involved, including me.

So, if my drive, my actions, and the results of my actions were both ‘selfish’ and exactly the same as those of everyone else, then wasn’t everyone involved selfish?

I’m seriously confused about this, because where I come from, working with others for mutual benefit is, y’know, the opposite of being selfish. :-/

Did the group specifically state they wanted only players wearing zerker gear? If you intentionally were deceptive then it’s selfish… end of story. People are not deceptive because they are being altruistic.

I know you will never see it that way, you feel your right to play how you want supersedes anyone else’s desire to play how they want. There really is nothing more that can be said on the matter. Thank you for the conversation, be well.

Conncept.7638:

IndigoSundown.5419:

Conncept.7638:

Granted it would still be preferable if I didn’t have to deceive other players to do so, but that is neither my fault, nor my problem. Tell Anet to fix their barely functional stat system, their borked dungeons, and do something about the hostile community before you tell players not to play content they have every right to participate in.

You have not, however, described a situation in which your “right” to participate in content is the issue. You are describing a situation in which you blatantly disregard preferences expressed by other players for your own advantage.

Would it be “nice” of other players to take anyone who wanted to go? Absolutely. However, they are not obligated to do so. It would also be “nice” to respect others preferences. Your disregard for those preferences is a blatant expression of entitlement, not you exercising your rights.

Well let’s see, I’m playing the game, therefore I legally purchased the game, and by that I legally have the right to participate in the content in it without being barred by other players. I can legally be barred by Anet, but not other players. You couldn’t piece together that I own and am playing the game on your own?

You are right, nothing requires those players to take any other player, including me. Just as nothing requires me to abstain from joining any group I wish, including zerker speedruns. The only way either one of use would be justified is if either did something breaking the terms of service, including damaging the others play experience, in which case the other would rightfully have a reason to use the kick system without repercussion. But as I said, a half a dozen times now, I went through months worth of these runs without incident, so your justfication is not only speculative, but speculation, of previous events which did not happen.

ShadowPuppet.3746:

Conncept.7638:

ShadowPuppet.3746:

You’re projecting, you actually have no idea why Anet is not supporting dungeons at the moment. It very well could be that there is a small population of people who actually run dungeons. However, it’s dishonest to try and pin that on “elitist” behavior since you have exactly zero evidence beyond a limited perception and personal bias to substantiate such a claim.

You need to look up what ‘projection’ means. They blatantly stated that dungeons weren’t being given attention because they are not played enough to warrant the amount of development time they take. As for why they are not being played enough, that is not a ‘projection’ but my opinion, and one based on no small amount of experience with the dungeon community, not to mention the collective experience of every other casual player I know who has come in to contact with the dungeon community.

You are behaving in a toxic manner…

And I’m going to stop you right there because there is no point to the remainder of what you have to say, as it is all based on that completely false point.

What I did:
1. Did not harm a single player in any playgroup I was in, in any way, ever.
2. Met the requirements of the playgroup even if I did not meet listed specifications. They wanted speed, I lost them none as compared to a normal run. They wanted efficiency, I was just as efficient as a fifth zerker, in fact I would argue more so over the long run.
3. Did not break any part of the Arenanet’s terms of service. No rule requires that a player meet other players expectations. Else the dungeon community would likely be even smaller, as the ‘hardcores’ would have had every other player banned for not playing to their expectations.

It is true I did not abide by what other players expected of me, but by no definition whatsoever was my behavior ‘toxic’. If it were, action would have been taken against me through the report system, and it never was.

Being intentionally deceptive is toxic, because of the selfish nature being exhibited. If you create a group that states it’s a “fun” run, no skipping etc etc and someone else comes in there on that premise and expects to do otherwise that is also toxic. It’s toxic because it shows a lack of respect for other people whether or not it is an actionable offense against the TOS. In your case you say it caused no conflict, I am willing to take you at your word, however I have personally witnessed conflict arise from people doing exactly what you did. It all could be avoided simply by respecting others, no more no less. Since however you have players that can not seem to do that, filtering tools could go a long way as I said to keeping people honest.

Conncept.7638:

ShadowPuppet.3746:

You’re projecting, you actually have no idea why Anet is not supporting dungeons at the moment. It very well could be that there is a small population of people who actually run dungeons. However, it’s dishonest to try and pin that on “elitist” behavior since you have exactly zero evidence beyond a limited perception and personal bias to substantiate such a claim.

You need to look up what ‘projection’ means. They blatantly stated that dungeons weren’t being given attention because they are not played enough to warrant the amount of development time they take. As for why they are not being played enough, that is not a ‘projection’ but my opinion, and one based on no small amount of experience with the dungeon community, not to mention the collective experience of every other casual player I know who has come in to contact with the dungeon community.

You are behaving in a toxic manner by not respecting clearly defined expectations and then turning around and accusing others of being toxic. This is the very definition of projection as it relates to psychology. See example below:
Projection is a defense mechanism that involves taking our own unacceptable qualities or feelings and ascribing them to other people. For example, if you have a strong dislike for someone, you might instead believe that he or she does not like you. Projection works by allowing the expression of the desire or impulse, but in a way that the ego cannot recognize, therefore reducing anxiety.

You could have avoided that group and simply played with another group or formed your own, but instead you deliberately chose to be deceitful. However you try to justify it, your behavior is just as bad if not worse than the supposed “elitists” you seem to hold such a disdain for. Clearly you only consider your own wants and playstyle or time as having any merit. If you want to run rabid gear then do so in your own party or a party that does not specifically state zerker only. This is especially true since it’s been proven mathematically by multiple theorycrafters that condition damage does not come close to the same amount of damage in group situations that p/p/f does whether you are the only condi focused player or not because it lacks the instant burst needed in many situations.

Having said all of this, so it’s clear… there is nothing wrong with not using zerker gear. Just respect others and if a group clearly states they are looking for zerker geared players don’t try to force yourself into it just because you believe they are kittens. Doing so makes you more like the “elitists” than you will ever likely admit to and is a prime example of why there is a need for better filtering tools. It keeps everyone honest.

Conncept.7638:

Harper.4173:

Conncept.7638:

Yenn.9185:

Conncept.7638:

Mitch.4781:

ipan.4356:

This is the very thing I hate in games like this.

why though? It can help you improve ur skills

No it doesn’t, there is no skill in blindly adhering to a system. That’s like saying filling out forms is a skill or obeying the traffic lights as you drive.

I have several builds I like on each of my characters, and only one build on one character out of all of them is a berserker build, the most ‘efficient’ build. But I am, good with all of them. I used to carry through CoE speed runs on a tanky condi glyph elementalist. I didn’t tell anyone that was my build, as it was none of their business, or yours. Because they would have likely made the same ill-informed snap judgments you and most players would make were they to be given the tools you are suggesting.

Yes, in a ‘play how you want’ casual party. In a zerker only party, I don’t think so. Ofc, if the other party members is unskilled, it wouldn’t be a good run regardless of gear anyways.

Also if your playing alone, in open world for example, I don’t care what build you use. But when start partying with other player, you’re no longer just responsible for your own. What build you use doesn’t just affect you, but also your party members.

It wasn’t always in a casual party, I joined plenty of the all zerker parties, and just lied about my build, and it made absolutely no difference, the clear times didn’t change and not once in the months it took me to get my CoE gear did anybody even notice. In fact I frequently got complimented and friended from my dungeon runs.

Why? No on plays perfect no matter how much they laud themselves as ‘leet’, I often saved those parties when one or multiple people missed a dodge against Subject Alpha. For the few unnoticeable seconds they lost on each run, every 3-4 runs I singlehandedly saved them minutes by averting a wipe. In fact I liked joining those parties, as it insured that I was to be the only condimancer in ANets laughably dysfunctional stat system.

You’re exactly the kind of person that we need filters and tools to keep away from our parties. Not because of your gear – but because of your attitude.

No idea what ‘attitude’ you’re talking about, I was a perfectly genteel dungeon runner. I never detracted from anyone’s play experience, and was not once reported, I can’t even recall an instance of anyone getting angry at me. Strictly speaking I didn’t even lie, I just joined the parties and didn’t say anything.

I was playing the game how I wanted, and it is no business of anyone else how I do so as long as I do not detract from their own way of playing the game, which I did not in any way, shape, or form.

Elitist players who make these type of groups on the other hand have abused and pushed players away from the dungeon content to the point that ANet considers dungeon content and updates a complete waste of development time. Such players are the reason we are probably never going to see another major dungeon update ever again. Thanks for that.

My attitude, in spite of my lying, did absolutely no harm to anyone at any time. While the attitude of those you are defending has completely destroyed a section of the game’s content to the point that even the developers themselves have openly abandoned all hope of repairing it.

You’re projecting, you actually have no idea why Anet is not supporting dungeons at the moment. It very well could be that there is a small population of people who actually run dungeons. However, it’s dishonest to try and pin that on “elitist” behavior since you have exactly zero evidence beyond a limited perception and personal bias to substantiate such a claim.

The fact remains that both play styles are equally valid, however you were intentionally deceitful towards a particular group. I believe I read that you mentioned several times in another post that you “saved the day”. Did it occur to you that because the way the group was setup if you had run all dps like the others, they may have not needed “saving” since the mobs would have died before downing the players? That’s the thing about all zerker groups, everyone needs to run that way for the party to function properly with that play style.

The only thing you actually seem to care about is what you want, not what anyone else is asking for. I see far more wrong with your behavior than someone who wishes to avoid players that behave as you do.

yolo swaggins.2570:

voidwater.2064:

stuff

Regardless, ipan is not wrong. Good things need to be worked for and making a party tailored to your tastes isn’t hard. However putting a recount will make it easier for players to bar others from content. The leeches have as much of a right to do the dungeon as you do, but you already have the tools to tailor them out .

You wanting to bar players from content is just as bad as the players who want to lazy their way through a dungeon.

How exactly will it bar someone from completing content? The only difference how much damage someone does is how quickly content is completed not whether it can be completed. Players who enjoy efficiency and players who don’t will both still be able to run in their groups, they just have different goals in mind. Are you implying that players who don’t care about efficiency do not have the skills to complete a dungeon on their own and rely on piggybacking to achieve their goals?

ipan.4356:

That goes both ways.

Every dungeon run I’ve ever done I create my own party, and I typically put something along the lines of, “No elitism”, or “No zerkers – beginners only”, or “No Speed Clears” in my description line.

About half the time I get 1-2 people who completely ignore my description and start harassing other players or trying to kick them.

This happens when I create my own group.

So, let’s flip this around – should we also add some kind of meter that allows me to filter OUT zerker/elitists, aside from the LFG tool and part description?

Ya’ll are focused on only one side of the coin – a DPS meter that allows you to ensure that no one with sub-optimal gear will join your group.

How about the other way around – I want a tool that automatically rejects anyone who plays the way you do from joining my group, because I’ve had nothing but issues with your “kind” in the past.

The truth is, I don’t actually care how anyone is geared – I respect everyone’s right to play their own character however they want – including if they want to max out their DPS. I don’t put that in my description because I don’t like DPS builds – I put it there because I typically don’t like the attitude of the people that go along with it.

This GAME however, was sold as a ‘play how you want to’ game, which means that every kind of build, at least hypothetically, should be viable if the player is skilled.

The fact that it’s not is more indicative of poor game design. The fact that the meta favors a single kind of build just points to poor balance, nothing else.

I simply won’t support anything that continues to push things in this direction.

Justify it however you want to, I believe that a DPS meter is contrary to the spirit of this game.

If it is an absolute necessity that you run with a specific kind of player, then JOIN A GUILD, that’s what they’re for.

I vote a resounding NO for DPS meters.

Ipan, the answer is yes. Better filtering tools work both ways. I don’t think anyone in this thread has made a claim that speed clear groups are the only way to play. The issue is people have a right to play how they want (any way) including people who speed clear and people who don’t. As it stands now it’s too easily wrecked by players that have a notion about what the “proper” way to play is. That’s the entire point, is anyone who makes a group has the right to set the standards for the group they have created. If you don’t like what the standard is, then make your own group or find one that is a standard you will enjoy playing or as you suggest, “JOIN A GUILD, that’s what they’re for.”

Azathor.2845:

Before I first started playing GW2 I made the decision that I wanted to try Rp’ing so I did some searching and found that TC was the RP server. When I went to make my first avatar however TC was shown to be full so I had to start playing on an alternate server.

Do I have to be on TC to start Rp’ing? We have megaserver now so I guess it doesn’t matter?

Someone told me of a site called gw2roleplaying.com or something like that. Is that still a good place to start?

Do I develop a backstory for my avatar that I want to RP with before contacting people?

Basically if anyone can give me any direction at all I’d be very appreciative.

Thank you.

In general, how much or how little back story you come up with for your character is up to you. I tend to develop very little in the way of back story beyond the basics of general disposition (attitude towards others) and some quick references of what their motivations might be (are they good/bad/indifferent). For me this allows me to develop a character story more fluidly than trying to force a “sqaure peg in a round hole” in terms of other players and their rp. Obviously you want to avoid “god-modding” when at all possible. How many omnipotent queens, kings, and/or demigods can there be after all? Doesn’t hurt to be prepared for certain inevitable situations and have answers ready for common questions, but in my opinion the best “stories” take place on the fly and evolve as the situation warrants.

ipan.4356:

If you want to group with a certain kind of player, that’s what guilds and friends lists are for.

Why should we add a discrimitory tool to the LFG that only affects PUGs?

If you’re PUGG’ing, you accept that you get what you get – if you want a tailored party you already have everything you need to get that – your guild, or your friends list.

There’s no need for a DPS meter.

LFG is for anyone looking to make a party. One particular play style does not own the exclusive use of it. If you add better filtering tools, the people who accept your definition could still fill their parties with “anything goes” but the people who are looking for specific things will also be able to fill their parties and not have them wrecked by players intentionally being deceitful.

My own personal experience has been that there is a segment of the game population who:

• Refuse to make their own parties so they can play how they like.
• Exhibit poor “skill” in dungeons (either through inexperience or willful ignorance).
• Expect to be allowed into any group and be carried through it so that they can earn the same reward to time ratio as someone who makes an effort to learn the most efficient way of doing a particular path.

Obviously I don’t have hard numbers to even make a guess as to how many people fall into that category, but I know they exist because I have met far too many since the game has launched. So it’s clear, I have absolutely no problem with someone playing how they want. I do however have a problem with someone who want’s maximum reward/efficiency without being willing to put in the effort to learn how to do that themselves and expect that they should be able to do that off of someone else’s “labor”.

Would it also have the ability to dump toxic waste on toxic players there by ending toxic behavior?

Faereilos.5106:

Celestina.2894:

Gedekran.1487:

Scandi.5693:

Gedekran.1487:

I like completing the event.

How many times do you need complete it? I don’t mean to make a personal attack but I do question why you are there if not to troll the farmers. I checked earlier and found a map within minutes that was not being farmed and had people doing the event to completion. So I think this thread a bit disingenuous.

So you are saying there’s now a limit to how many times a person can complete events in this game? Then what happens, get labeled a troll? There should not be any event in game where a person wanting to complete it, no matter how many times, should be labeled a troll such as you are trying to do right now with me. So no, I’ll keep completing it because completing events is fun at least to me.

You’re dancing around his/her point.

It’s strange how Coiled is suddenly the most important and fun event in all of Tyria. I swear, once it’s nerfed nobody will be there to complete it other than people who need LS, and that’s not many.

Yep, just like blix was. I don’t know about Gedekran, but I know for fact that there are certain players that have made it their mission simply to disrupt farms for the kicks because they like stirring up trouble. Ultimately the issue of loot rewards needs to be addressed by Anet, you will never get rid of people looking to take advantage of broken game design nor the people who try to self appoint themselves as the “obscure morality” police.

Astralporing.1957:

ShadowPuppet.3746:

Speed clears were a thing in GW1 also, unless you can find something specifically stating that skipping is unintended or exploitive in some way you are just assuming to confirm your personal bias.

Again, we’re talking about the difference between allowing something and approving of it. It is clear, that while Anet allows it, they do not approve.

Ok, I ask for some sort of statement indicating that Arena Net does not approve of it. As far as I know it’s just an assumption until I see otherwise.

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

Harper.4173:

The whole problem is social – and some people don’t have the social skills required to realize you’re not supposed to just breeze on through a party if you have no business there in the first place.

It’s all about decency and respect for other people’s rights to play.

~snip~

Except asura. They can all burn.

My understanding is that Asura are naturally flame resistant. -_-

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

Yenn.9185:

Algreg.3629:

Yenn.9185:

Algreg.3629:

as always the adequate reply to this request is “other people´s stats are non of your kitten business”.

If you are in my party, then it’s my business.

nah, even though I usually follow mmorpg´s “metas” and try to max out my characters in the best way and I am not a friend of “flower sniffing”, it is still not your business. I also consider joining parties when not fulfilling their requests really rude. Still, “your” party does not “belong” to you, my stats are none of your business, period. Pay me RL money, maybe I work according to your wishes then.

With that self-centered attitude, it is apparent working in team is not your strong suit. And no, you do not have to pay me or the party organizer any money. You do not work for him or her, you work for the team.

Well, the team who only wants the high DPS and nothing else, from what I’m reading here.

If I join a group, it is, up front, with the explicit understanding I am not top tier ranger and you’re not getting the elite. So far, more groups than not have been okay with this so long as I’m not just continuously dying in each encounter or actively messing up things (through ignorance or through really bad timing).

Again, I could care less about the existence of DPS meters themselves. I care a lot more about how they might be used less as a tool and more as a weapon.

Here is the real kicker, for some people it is “fun” to speed clear and skip mobs. The enjoyment comes from seeing just how fast you can go. I happen to be one of those people from time to time, other times I am perfectly content to just float along. But if I make a group on lfg, I always state what the intention for the group is. It used to surprise me when people would message me saying something to the effect of “I don’t meet what the clearly stated purpose is but can I come anyways? No? Well expletive off”. Conversely, I have joined lfg groups that say “first time runners welcome, or no skipping etc etc”, and inevitably some clown wants to come into that group and start barking orders. In a perfect world (virtual or not) where everyone actually respected other people and their differences we would not need dps meters or better lfg tools. Unfortunately, this Shangri La still eludes us.

Lobo Dela Noche.5127:

Gaile Gray.6029:

I appreciate the feedback. I just wonder how such a survey could work. Most surveys are not essay questions. They’re like this:

• Should we change [this thing]? Yes/No.

That seems unhelpful. First, things are seldom answered with just a yes or no answer. Instinct is to react, “Well, I need to know more about why you’re looking at that area,” or “That’s not as important as [these other things]” or “Yes, please change it [this way] and not [that other way].”

Or maybe you’re thinking:

• Which of these things should we focus on? [list]

And we all know, given we’re forum members, that those opinions — about priorities or changes — could number in the dozens. Nah, probably in the hundreds.

Maybe it’s an essay question. Maybe it’s “We’re looking for feedback on [this thing]” where you can provide your thoughts in detail. If that’s the case, may I introduce you to the CDIs?

You make good points, it’s not possible for any human being to read every thread. And certainly when their job is making a game — design, programming, art, writing, and all the other facets of development — reading the forums in large amounts could take them away from their job at a cost to the game.

But if 300 Anet Team members are reading the forums, even if lightly, it starts discussion. Heck, I’ve sent notes about threads to various teams, and I know just about every other person here has done the same. Like this: “I don’t work on [such-and-such], but I found [this linked thread] really interesting.” Or maybe, “This is for your team. I think we can support it by doing [our stuff] if you are going to work on this.”

So surveys? Maybe they’ll happen, I’m not sure. Could you outline your thoughts on how they’d look? Input on something topical? CDIs are great — are you participating? Have you made a suggestion there that we have one on a topic near and dear to your heart?

Please don’t see this as a “never happen” response. I’m mostly just asking questions, that’s all.

Why can’t the survey be something like
on a scale of 1-5 how happy are you with XXXX
out of these 5 things which was your most liked
out of these 5 things which was your least liked
please rate these 5 items in order of most liked to least liked
on a scale of 1-5 how would you rate your experience from levels 1-5, 5-10,10-15, etc
on a scale of 1-5 how would you rate the speed at which you gain skills, the speed at which you gain traits, the speed at which you unlock the ability to do XXXX
what things would you like added to the game out of these 5
what things would you like changed out of these 5
how is your overall satisfaction with XXXX

I think some of these could help you with interpreting what your metrics are telling you. Rather than telling everyone what someone thinks or wants the metrics to tell them.

Quoted for truth, and to emphasize that this is a player who came up with a meaningful survey format to use to compare against Anet’s metrics.

Palador.2170:

You know, I used to be opposed to any sort of DPS meter, but I think I’ve changed my mind.

If ANet put one into the game, you know that there would be two places the information would go. To the player, and to ANet. Basically, it would quickly and constantly show them the most powerful damage builds, and how much they should nerf them by to bring them back “in line” with what they want everything to be.

The “elite” and “hardcore” players would basically be hanging a “Nerf Me!” sign on themselves. The idea amuses me greatly, so please keep begging for ANet to put into this game the tools they need to wreck your playstyle.

MikeyGrey.2496:

This way, people would actually want to wear full zerk/skip mobs, etc. Rewards can be tailored to fit those specific competitive individuals so ez-going players don’t feel pressured.

ANet actually wants people to NOT skip mobs. It’s basically bypassing content (even if it is filler content) to rush to the end as fast as possible. And blowing through things faster means you’re done with it faster, and ready to move on to new content that they don’t have ready yet. If they could figure out a good way to keep people from doing it, they would.

Speed clears were a thing in GW1 also, unless you can find something specifically stating that skipping is unintended or exploitive in some way you are just assuming to confirm your personal bias. I am not saying that such a statement doesn’t exist but if it does I have not seen it.

Astralporing.1957:

ShadowPuppet.3746:

There is nothing and I do mean nothing wrong with setting an expectation when you form a group. If a player wants to group with other like minded players why not give them the tools to do that instead of trying to force two different groups with differing goals to play together?

There is a difference between Anet allowing such community-dividing (and unhealthy) behaviour, and actually supporting and validating it. Introducing DPS meter would be an official message telling everyone that they agree with and support elitist behaviour. I doubt this would be received well with the casual majority this game was supposedly targeted for.

(and as for “forcing two different groups, with differing goals, to play together” is concerned, and Anet’s attitude towards it, i will say only three words – “WvW map completion”).

I don’t see an issue with a personal dps meter but it’s not something I really care about one way or the other. Harper seems to be more concerned with better lfg tools (which was what my post was referring to) to allow him to play with like minded players and I agree with him.

Unhealthy is trying to force players with differing ideas of what they find “fun” to play together for no other reason than to promote a “Utopian” dream that is never going to exist. The reality is, people who form a group have the right to say what they want for the group they created (they paid their money just like everyone else). If a player doesn’t like what is being stated then they don’t have to join and can form their own group.

Better lfg tools would allow players to avoid the types of groups they don’t want to play with while making it easier to find groups that are more similar to their ideals. The best thing about this is that it works for both of the false dichotomy choices people are giving, “Elitist” and “Casual” alike.

ipan.4356:

Harper.4173:

Funky.4861:

@lhos- you want some ‘serious need for co-operation’? How about:
-karka queen
-Tequatl
-Triple trouble
-Marionette
-Assault knights
-TA aetherpath

…just off the top of my head.

Elitists who are impatient tend to have a perfectionist effect on those around them (and the game in general). We have them to thank for the ascended gear grind and lack of build diversity in pve; it’s play their way or you are inferior.

OT: We don’t need more methods of discriminating against casual players in a casual game.

And nobody wants that.
We want a tool through which we can spot and have nothing to do with the “casual players” not discriminate against them.

That is the definition of discrimination.

I am far more comfortable forcing elitists to play with casuals.

It will teach them much needed (and seriously lacking) social skills.

There is nothing and I do mean nothing wrong with setting an expectation when you form a group. If a player wants to group with other like minded players why not give them the tools to do that instead of trying to force two different groups with differing goals to play together? Both the so called “elitists” and “casuals” each have a right to play as they wish and better filtering tools could go a long way towards making that happen and avoiding conflict in the process. The people who want fast clear times (supposed elitists) will have the tools to facilitate that, and the people who want to enjoy the journey and don’t much care what people run (supposed casuals) will both benefit from having access to better lfg tools. Everyone wins and everyone is happy.

ShadowDragoonFTW.3418:

Well, if they REALLY wanted to get completely unbiased results, they could just make the survey mandatory. Make it obscure the character select screen completely until you finish and close it. But then, that would be a poor idea for many other reasons.

That would likely still skew results since it would upset some of the more “sensitive” players. Angry people rarely give valuable rational feedback while they are in the midst of their tantrum.

Gibson.4036:

ShadowDragoonFTW.3418:

@ShadowPuppet – I rather like that idea. Incentivise it, even if it’s something small. It will still get more people interested to spend a few minutes on it.

I’m no statistician, but isn’t that pretty much guaranteed to skew your results? More players who are willing to jump through hoops for small rewards?

It might I suppose, I mean I am sure you would get people who would simply click the first option without reading just to get the reward as fast as possible. I suppose that is why I felt the reward should be fairly trivial though, not enough to make someone feel they had to take the survey, but just something small for the people who would have taken the survey even if no reward was offered.

The only fair way for them to do a survey would be to have it in game. I don’t know what % of the game population visits the forums and actually participates but I am guessing it’s actually fairly low. I mean they could even give a small incentive to complete the survey in game, like a karma booster or something else relatively trivial as a small nod for players taking the time to fill out the survey.

jingkangtan.6752:

turrents, torrents, torrits, tourettes

its T U R R E T S

We know, that’s the joke

I think a dps meter that gives you only your personal data is fine. I am also on board for better filtering tools for lfg, if a person makes a group they have the right to set the terms for what they want in the group. If one person likes to run “meta or gtfo” and another doesn’t, so what? It would make it much easier for like minded players to play together and avoid conflicts, since there can be no deception on anyone’s part. Sometimes I run dungeons that are relative speed clears (not going for records but using all dps armor sets and builds) and sometimes I run dungeons at a snails pace where people can bring whatever they want. Both types of groups fill up quickly, so there is more than enough of each kind of population segment to support having better lfg filtering in my opinion.

Edit: Also, to the players who say they teach others how to do dungeons, thank you. If I can give a word of caution though, try to make sure that what you are doing is actually teaching and not dictating. How something is said is almost more important than what is being said once human ego becomes involved.

Exeon.4358:

ShadowPuppet.3746:

Don’t forget flame blast!!! engineer’s new best friend (especially with a staff ele in the party)
Edit: Also, if you happened to look at the links I posted those builds recommend scholar runes and force/night sigils. Those are really only gonna be your best bet if you play with a familiar group all the time. For pugs I would recommend strength runes and sigil and then either force, night, or accuracy for the second sigil.

I did and i already finished my engineer build using berserker WvW armor with scholar runes and i went for crit/night sigils as i get more power from berserker but less crit + it’s way cheaper.
I’m using an ascalonian rifle skin to keep track when it’s night to switch out.

Dunno why but i don’t like Napalm blast because a lot of times the blast finisher doesn’t work for me(hence why i use bomb kit in dungeons and flamethrower in world-events/solo

You can use bomb, ft, and eg… the bomb fire field is much easier to blast in than ft fire field.

Farming Flats.5370:

lol , uninstall and all the ‘’ graphical junk ’’ will go away ..

This game is all about aesthetics and ‘’ look at me ’’ , if you really don’t like it you’re playing the wrong game. I know someone who think that legendary are inflated toys and hate them .. but the same person change his look often and always have the last Black lion weapon skin .. so …

You mean, it’s what the game is about for you. Obviously the op is not concerned about seeing everyone else’s “catwalk strut” , and I couldn’t agree more with the op that it would be nice to have more control over what we do and don’t see displayed on our screens.

Aerinndis.2730:

Blaeys.3102:

Skoigoth.9238:

Alright, two things….

1. The fact that failing an event is more rewarding than completing it is a problem in and of itself. It is not the players fault, it is just horrible game design and I don´t understand why a-net doesn´t change it. And by that I do NOT mean increasing the time until events start, or removing loot from mobs, I mean ACTUALLY making completing events more profitable. Until this happens you can´t really blame people for trying to farm these events in the most efficient manner.

2. There are ALWAYS jerks on both sides of the argument, but that doesn´t mean all farmers are griefers, or similarly all people trying to complete such an event are griefers. From personal experience I can say that most people farming these events are nice, helpful and civil people, but they remain mostly silent. The ones that are vocal are unfortunately the jerks that are trying scare the “uninitiated” of the map/away from the events by insulting and harassing them. These people should be reported and warned/banned for a couple of days, no question about that. BUT, on the other side you also have people that harass and insult the farmers. Some of them actively seek to set the whole map up against the farmers, not because they actually want to complete the event, but because they take personal pleasure in ruining the farm for the others. They should be treated similarly to the griefers on the farmers side because they are doing the same thing: Insulting and harassing other players, therefore, report them if they say inappropriate stuff in map/say/whisper chat and hope they get a warning/ban.

Period.

Well said. The griefing comes when people start making attacks in map chat or whispers. No matter which direction that comes from, it deserves to be reported.

And I do believe Anet will fix this event. People (on both sides) wont be happy with that fix, but it will be needed to quell the hate were seeing.

I have seen the griefing go both ways on the map and both are definitely wrong. They will end up nerfing any champ farming in the end by their behavior. Yesterday I was doing the Frostgorge champ train and one individual was dedicating himself to making sure the coil succeeded to thwart the coil farmers and then came over to the champ train and took things down before others could get there. Obviously he got satisfaction out of messing with folk, but the chat just kept inciting him. He did not really reply to anyone but was obviously feeling very validated by the constant toxic comments a few were making. The rest of us ignored him and he finally left.

Everyone needs to use some courtesy. I do feel that if someone is on the map trying to complete an achievement and says so, the nice thing to do is everyone helps the person through to their achievement and then they can go back to farming. Usually there are not that many coming in over a period to time asking to do that. If anything the farmers can designate one time every hour they will complete the event for any achievers and put it out that they are doing just that. Everyone wins and gets to play “their way.” I think there would be a lot less angst and strife if both sides would work to help each other out.

I agree with you that all people should use some courtesy, however I don’t agree that farmers should “designate” time. That is implying that there is a clear perception of “ownership” or that they have some authority to do such a thing. It’s pretty easy really, people who want to progress their living story or work on an achievement tied to a certain event always take precedence since successful completion is the only way to achieve that goal. Farmers can farm at any event, the only thing that is affected for them is how much loot they get, not whether or not they farm entirely.

Bloodgruve.6038:

Hello Engi’s

Been away from game for a while and just started logging on again. How is the class doing currently in both PvE and WvWvW?

What builds are good for each?

Has FT found any love in the last 6 months?

Have conditions found any love PvE wise?

I ran a lot of zerker Bomb, Grenade and SD builds. Always wanted a viable FT build but never found a real one.

I quit just after LA was invaded n destroyed.

Thanks much,

Blood~

Welcome back Blood, gk or bk is still the way to go for dungeons… however working the ft in as one of the kits is more than acceptable now due to flame blast being an actual blast finisher on a short cooldown. FT works great for open world pve, but even with the buff to flame jet the auto attack still does much less damage and doesn’t provide vuln like nades or bombs. Most pve “meta” builds are 6/6/0/0/2 or 6/6/0/2/0 and still using zerker or assassin gear since condi’s are still in the exact same place they were before you left. For WvW not much has changed there either, anything you used to play will still be just as effective.

Here is the list of changes from the most recent patch:
Power Wrench:
This trait now increases the base damage of Tool Kit abilities by 10% instead of adding the crippled condition to wrench attacks. The crippled condition for wrench attacks is now baseline for the kit.
Always Prepared:
This trait now creates oil slicks near the engineer’s location for 4 seconds in addition to dropping med packs.
Elite Supplies:
Elite Supplies no longer grants extra duration to Elixir X. Instead, it now gives 50% increased movement speed while transformed.
Accelerant-Packed Turrets:
Knock-back distance of this trait has been reduced from 300 to 150.
Rocket Turret:
Explosive Rockets:
Increased the velocity of this attack by 50%. This missile now tracks targets.
Flamethrower:
Flame Jet:
Increased damage by 33%.
Detonate Flame Blast:
This skill is now a blast finisher.
Air Blast:
This skill is now more visible when used. The attack of this skill has been delayed by around 0.25 seconds.
Napalm:
This skill now delivers a damaging attack on each pulse.
Elixir R:
Casting time of this skill has been reduced by 0.25 seconds. This skill now removes immobilize.
Toss Elixir C:
This skill now converts 2 conditions on allies into boons. Increased radius from 180 to 240. The underwater version’s radius remains 240.
Tool Kit Wrench Combo (Smack, Whack, Thwack):
These skills no longer require Power Wrench to cripple enemies.
Throw Wrench:
This skill now cripples as a base mechanic and no longer needs to be traited with Power Wrench.
Launch Personal Battering Ram:
Increased damage by 20%.
Utility Goggles:
Analyze:
This skill now places 6 seconds of revealed on the target in addition to vulnerability.
Med Kit
Antidote:
This ability will now be consumed if the engineer drops the vial while immobilized.
Glue Shot:
Increased projectile velocity by 50%.
A.E.D.:
In addition to healing, this skill now removes all damaging conditions if the engineer would take a lethal blow.
Explosive Elixirs:
Removed a confusing bleeding trait fact when Shrapnel is equipped.
Jump Shot:
Updated the skill facts to display the correct amount of damage with the Rifled Barrels and Rifle Mod traits equipped.
Mortar:
Launch Mortar Shot:
Updated this skill to benefit from traits that improve explosives.
Launch Ice Mortar:
Updated this skill to benefit from traits that improve explosives.
Launch Ice Mortar:
Updated the damage skill fact for this skill to be more accurate.
Launch Concussion Barrage:
Updated this skill to benefit from traits that improve explosives.
Launch Concussion Barrage:
Fixed a bug that caused each shell fired from this skill to explode twice.
Launch Concussion Barrage:
Updated the damage skill fact for this skill to be more accurate.
Mortar Skills:
Fixed a bug that would cause the global cooldown for mortar skills to vary.
Fixed a bug that would cause the mortar to occasionally jam.
Torpedo Shot:
Updated the damage on the skill fact to correctly scale with the Rifle Mod trait.
Grenade Barrage:
Added Number of Targets facts to the underwater and traited versions of Grenade Barrage. Fixed the listed radius of the underwater traited version to its actual radius (120).
Blowtorch:
Fixed a bug that caused the untraited version of this skill to hit twice.

fellyn.5083:

Gedekran.1487:

Added three more albums.
http://imgur.com/a/JhIdm
http://imgur.com/a/hvpaW
http://imgur.com/a/WnGw2

I like the part where people are saying mass report.

It’s funny because abusing the report feature is bannable and anet does check logs. If they see a person get mass reported they will check and only see a person who is just playing the game as it’s meant to be played.

While the people doing the mass reporting exhibit aggressive behavior and continually run around in circles repeating the same event over and over.

I wonder which side anet will find more suspicious.

Greefa and Meatchop were two of the people who did the same thing at blix. They always try to claim it’s for the good of x, but the reality is they just like stirring up trouble, no more no less. Personally I think it’s silly the way Anet rewards failure, but I would never try to grief an event. I’m with you though, if there is something I need I am going to do it and not ask permission, but once I have accomplished whatever it is I move on.

For leveling you can pretty much use whatever you want and be successful. A few points to consider:

• If you do any kind of grouping such as events or even hearts where other players are around (grouping doesn’t only take place when you actually form a group with someone in this game), knock backs can be very frustrating for other players because of how common ground targeted aoe fields are and pushing mobs away from melee players.
• All the time spent juggling will actually increase the time it takes to kill enemies. Consider bomb kit, instead of juggling you can simply drop a smoke field to keep the mobs blind and aoe all three mobs at the same time.
• If you enjoy the playstyle, then you should continue to play that way. Just try to be mindful of how your knockbacks might affect other players.

Tourettes, aptly named because aside from using them on a point in pvp they will make you curse at random times.

unlucky.9285:

ellesee.8297:

Hello frands! Vee Wee here, #1 Engi NA and world first rank 80!

Engis are just weak to conditions! You just have to deal with it or hope Anet wises up! Considering how stubborn they are Vee Wee doubts that will happen! The best way to deal with it is to really learn how to use the Healing Turret effectively! It’s very situational but you’ll want to clear the really damaging conditions off immediately! Long lasting burn, poison, chill, and weakness are the ones that Vee Wee tries to clear ASAP! You can take Elixir Gun for an extra condition removed every 20 seconds! It’s not the best but it helps plus it really adds to your sustsain if you stand on it!

Wahoo! Bye frands!

necro is weak to cc and I don’t see anet fixing that any time soon so why should you get you’re weakness removed -.-

Bitter necro tears, yum!!! Kidding aside, I actually agree with you… with the way this game is currently balanced every class should have an achilles heel.

Exeon.4358:

kyubi.3620:

Im looking at you bomb enginer you spend so much time trying to stack might in that burning circle of yours that you aint auto attacking with bombs

You mean:

-Big ol bomb
-Switch to bomb kit and use fire bomb
-Switch to elixir gun and use acid

Because that’s actually still doing damage with 3 diffrent attacks and gaining 6 stacks of AOE might in the process, if you had your healing turret out and have your ulti up you could get an easy 12 stacks, and that’s just the engineer’s blast finishers

Don’t forget flame blast!!! engineer’s new best friend (especially with a staff ele in the party)
Edit: Also, if you happened to look at the links I posted those builds recommend scholar runes and force/night sigils. Those are really only gonna be your best bet if you play with a familiar group all the time. For pugs I would recommend strength runes and sigil and then either force, night, or accuracy for the second sigil.

Xyonon.3987:

Ohhhhhhh my bad I’m terribly sorry >.<

Against Lupi, focusing on precision may be better, since you can throw elixier R for reflection. But in that case maybe ferocity would be good too, wich leads us again to zerker. Hm – … or does a precision, ferocity, condition damage stat set exist? I doubt it but … hm ö.ö

Well as for me I only solo CM p3 where the meta build is the best imo. I might try using turrets with reflection, now that I think about it ö.ö

Btw, wich dungeon runs are really soloable WITHOUT exploits. Greez

This is not my video, but this is a rabid condi damage lupi solo done in 4:59 seconds.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_j3OMjyyQlg

As far as I know, not many but I guess it depends on what you consider an exploit heh.

Paulytnz.7619:

Indeed, “what is going on here?” I have no idea, more info please. :P

Miscellaneous forum rant is what is going on here!

Xyonon.3987:

On lupi, you’ll get *cked by the condicap. No – Zerker or kitten >>> Condi in every aspect of TEAMplay.

For solo, condi is viable. Either hybdrid (precision, power, condidmg) or full condi (condidmg, precision, toughness) is good for solo, when there is no condi cap. Full condi even makes you tank against bosses.

That’s what we are talking about, the op asked specifically about for dungeon solos

oxtred.7658:

I wonder if condi engi is faster than power, since nades are an hybrid weapon, my guess would be that berserker/sin is still superior but I didn’t test condi extensively.

I’ve never done an official test, at least not one that could recreate exact scenarios between the two different armor sets. But I have run solo both ways and the difference in time to clear is not huge. On lupi, it might be a bit faster even since he has such high armor, but I am not so pro or consistent that I could ever rule out player error for time differences.

No other class has a leap and a cripple on auto attack either. That’s why it locks you, the animation frames of the leap portion of the attack doesn’t change based on distance. So even if you are right next to the target it still uses the animation frames of the furthest possible leap distance, and you can not dodge during any leap in this game. So, they either need to get rid of the leap all together (which would sorta suck in pvp because it’s nice being able to stick like glue to someone trying to run away) or figure out how to adjust the animation frames better based on distance. As an aside you can use a weapon swap at any time provided swap is not on cooldown to cancel the lockout if you reaaallly need to dodge immediately, not a perfect solution but it works for the time being.

As far as serpent strike goes, I can’t say I have noticed it always happening where you are out of position except when there is a lot of movement by the target. Any kind of immobilize or speed reduction should remedy not landing the attack.

weston.3457:

to everyone who has ever said that “events werent designed to be failed” go defend nebo terrace, tell me how it works out for you…

Failing because you don’t have the numbers and or tactics to successfully complete an event is entirely different from failing intentionally for loot.

Ryn.6459:

The meta build then. I was wondering if rabid or celestial were good alternatives.

Rabid with aristocrat runes and a sigil of strength and bursting isn’t a bad choice really, might not be quite as fast as using sin and zerk but it does at least provide a bit of a cushion when dealing with trash mobs. Obviously still have to avoid taking big shots from bosses though.

McWolfy.5924:

Dont use ranger if you want to play in any high level content

Ranger is perfectly fine everywhere except maybe tPvP (I don’t do tournies so I can’t say for that mode). They bring good damage and offensive support in pve in form of spotter and frost spirit and can mildly contribute to team might stacks/fury through warhorn and jungle stalker/red moa. The days of ranger being bottom tier are over with for the time being, provided the player behind the keyboard is decent.

kyubi.3620:

Well for pug id just say Jugg is most usefull (you never know if youl have might or not) For non pug then you may want to run bombs altrought regardless of pugs or not running FT with HGH 25 perma might helps making yourself usefull to the team

HGH is pretty terrible for pve in my opinion, yeah you can maintain might… but all the time spent chugging elixirs is time you are not doing damage. HGH also forces you to use elixirs on cooldown to maintain that might which puts you in a situation of possibly not having the elixirs available for when you need their effects, essentially rendering those skill slots and toolbelt skills ineffective.

Xyonon.3987:

That’s what i meant. Zerk or kitten doesn’t really matter. I made some math and we are talking about a few % crit chance for a few % dmg. Still, I prefer Zerk – cuz I already have it ascended XD

What I meant was more the scholar runes. Strength is better everywhere but groups where you will not be the might stacker / you allways have your 25 stacks. I doubt that scholar will be worth it in normal parties. Especially as engineer, where you allways get the aggro

Another fairly decent option if a player can’t afford strength runes is the ranger runes and equipping a mini to get the bonus damage,

Xyonon.3987:

DesertRose.2031:

Video guide for playing an Engineer in speedruns:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cYWpstTq528#t=75

That’s a pretty good video imo. But it’s only for total organized speedruns, keep this in mind. Still hot <3

I don’t think a group really needs to be that organized for this build to be effective. Maybe change out runes and sigils for a unorganized group but the rest of it is still solid.

Xyonon.3987:

Ahh now I understand. I guess you interrupt yourself by canceling the skill. You swap to early I think. Look at this awesome paint drawn picture I just made xD

greez Ziggy

€dit: Oh yea and if you want some ingame demonstrations or lession about engi, just pm me Ziggs Ironeye <3 glad to help new ingis ^.^

LOL dat infographic!!! Cheers!!!

It’s more than fine for open world pve. The problem with ft auto is, the damage is still less than gk auto and it doesn’t apply vuln unless precise sights is taken (grenades will still stack more vuln with this trait). In regards to juggernaut, it’s a “selfish” trait (since the might only applies to you) and any semi organized or experienced group is going to be wanting to stack might for the group. This means that juggernaut is largely wasted in those scenarios.

Rather than try to type out all the info I will encourage you to go here:
http://www.dtguilds.com/forum/m/6563292/viewthread/15457607-dnt-engineer-build-9914
And here:
http://www.dtguilds.com/forum/m/6563292/viewthread/15386797-optimal-dps-rotation

These guys and gals spend a fair amount of time theorycrafting and I agree with their assessments since it’s what I also run and can attest to it’s effectiveness.

Shaogin.2679:

ShadowPuppet.3746:

Shaogin.2679:

ShadowPuppet.3746:

Adapt and overcome through superior firepower, this is our creed. I get it that people have a favorite setup, but sometimes you just gotta use stuff that you wouldn’t normally use. You will do well in this game if you don’t become one of those players that set’s their kits and then refuses to ever use anything besides them.

I’m pretty sure everyone using the Flamethrower in pve is well aware that it isn’t optimal and is just having fun. No need to start posting advice on how to play in a thread joking about the irony of Flamethrowers and plant monsters.

So then the point of your post is what exactly? You seemed upset that you were struggling with certain mobs because of retal and indicated that you would miss using grenades and flamethrower too much to switch. I offered advice on not becoming too attached to certain kits if you are struggling with aforementioned mobs. When you post on a public forum, expect that you will have people who will respond.

The post was a joke about the retal on plant bosses countering a flamethrower. Everyone else got it and contributed to a fun atmosphere. Went right over your head however and all you saw was someone that needed you teach them how to play a game mastered by 8 year old kids around the world. Thank you captain obvious, but the situation is under control here, now move along.

If you say so, reading the posts it didn’t seem like everyone “got it”. Either way, there is really no need to try and be insulting to people who offer advice. Maybe you didn’t need the specific advice given but maybe someone who is new or struggling with the issue you described could benefit from it. Be well.