why the hell didnt they just let us choose both the weapon and the stats !
Cause that would literally be to easy. There would be no point and after a short amount of time everyone would have the weapon and stats they wanted.
And what is so wrong with that? That then frees up people to go after legendaries or other cosmetic items and also allows Anet to get back to focusing on that horizontal progression they liked to tout so much initially.
Fractals is there to cater to people who wants a neverending progression in a piece of content, and it isn’t gear-gated because you can do every single fractal on lvl 1 without any AR.
We can’t be sure its a carrot and stick method until they raise the level cap, because if they don’t, Ascended items will be the be all and end all of the carrot and you can go eat it.
The problem with not using a tried and tested method is that it’s a huge gamble. If you’re a tiny developer with nothing to lose, then you can afford to be unique, but when you got a 300-man dev team to feed and a project which they’ve put 5 years of their lives into to manage, that gamble has a high cost attached to it.
They’ve shown quite a lot of balls already in what they’ve done, by getting rid of a lot of the traditional core elements of a MMO, even in terms of gear progression. The tried and tested method would be making Ascended gear so powerful you can’t go without it and then gate new content behind it so that it forces you to get it ASAP, then put some cash shop aids behind that as well to milk the content locusts dry.
It’s easy to tell if it’s a carrot on the stick, the intention is to keep people playing. It’s just that it is the same method that other games use in just increasing stats as opposed to content or horizontal progression. Obviously players need new things to keep playing or else they lose interest, but it is the types of things that are introduced that should be important. They chose to focus on the easiest method possible in order to maintain a group of players that will likely still leave the game once another comes out. Best example I can give is a game like EvE, yes it is niche and does not have the following that other more “successful” games have, but it has been steadily growing it’s base since it’s launch 10 years ago by sticking to it’s core concept and values by offering a largely player driven experience. I am quite certain CCP are in no danger of shutting down their doors anytime soon, so they chose a model that would ensure them long term stability versus the “get rich quick” methods that are so common now.
ehh…2 weeks for 1 weapon, I have 5 toons and on average 3 weapons per character, so its 30 weeks of work for me to catch up if I play everyday. A lot of the mmos I played had eventually became if you dont log in everyday you are behind stats wise, I thought GW2 was supposed to solve this problem, but I guess I am wrong, oh how about when the armors comes out? Much more work to do than weapons I assume. And next year, they gonna rise the level cap(I think I see this in articles somewhere), and make another tier to fill the gap on time consume between normal gear and legendary.
I have learned my lessons here, no hope for revolutionary mmos, all are same games with different skins.
Most MMOs NEED you to have the latest gear in order to even access some of the content because they are gear-gated, thus far, GW2 hasn’t had anything gear-gated and the difference between Ascended and Exotics isn’t enough to gear gate anything.
They did say they plan to raise the level cap sometime in the future, but that was before the game even launched and by the look of things, they gave up (I hope) on that silly idea.
What is fractals intention if it’s not gear gated content? While I agree with you that GW2 has less gear gating than other mmo’s for doing different content, they implement their own “gating” systems in the form of time or rng. It’s not about being able to complete content for them, but rather forcing the speed in which you can obtain items. Basically it’s a response to trying to slow down the “content locusts” because Anet knows full well they can not actually put out enough content to keep those players satisfied and instead of just letting them go (which they most likely will anyway once another shiny game comes along) they chose to appease them with this carrot on the stick system they have now implemented. Anet with GW2 has done everything that every other major MMORPG does, they just do it different and then release pr spin to get people to buy into it. They simply want to keep people playing their game and are falling back on the tried and true methods that worked for other games instead of actually trying to be unique and it makes me sad to see another developer go this route.
90% of the ascended stuff is time-gated so the hardcore players can’t have their ascended items in a day. Instead, by time-gating this content, casual players and hardcore players are on equal footing.
In fact, it isn’t just 90% time-gated on ascended. Almost all content in Guild Wars 2 is time-gated so as to level the playing field for casuals and hardcores.
Guild Wars 2 is still 100% casual. How can I assume that? Well, I’m a hardcore player myself, and I can say that there is absolutely, positively, no hardcore content in this game at this time.
You’re soooo wrong… What kind of so called ‘casual’ have the astronomical amount of gold needed to reach 500 and then actually start crafting the weapon? This isn’t aimed at casuals but grind bots/hardcore crowd.
No… I’m really not wrong. The fact that Anet time-gated almost everything in this game should tell you that they want this to be a casual experience. You could play for half an hour a day and have the money you need in about 3 weeks. My brother barely plays GW2 anymore, and he still has over 120 gold because he plays once every few weeks and doesn’t spend any money.
The problem isn’t that casuals can’t get enough money. Your problem makes it seem like you don’t know how to save money. It’s a l2p issue.
Read Nuka’s post history. People who want the best stuff to come from doing very hard content are not casuals.
For what it’s worth, if you want an Ascended weapon, the implementation is making the game very like a Facebook game. Rather than enticing people to play the game because there are fun things to do, ANet is enticing people to worry about whether they did their laundry list of tasks today. This is an insidious practice used by so-called “social” game designers.
Ascended may not be ANet’s fault. After all, some players demanded carrots. However, the weapon crafting implementation is ANet’s fault. It’s casual friendly only in that a casual can get one eventually. If Nuka had his way, most casuals wouldn’t see one. Other than that, Ascended weapons are not player-friendly — unless the player is borderline addicted to the game and wants to be led around by the nose from one thing to another because he wants to feel like he’s making progress.
Sounds like you have listened to Jonathan Blow, now there is a game designer who gets it.
What I see most is that people want gear and achievements without doing the activities required for them. It’s not even an issue of if an achievement or piece of gear is vital to progress, it’s simple OCD combined with a sense of “attendence = effort”.
There is another thread wherein a poster felt that it was somehow a failing of Anet that events actually had objectives that could be failed if they didn’t attended to them. Somehow they felt that they should’ve been able to ignore an objective, just farm the event mob spawns, and be rewarded as if they successfully completed the event.
I can’t even argue that in terms of game design, as that seems more like a defect in cognitive rationality.
There are some that want gear without effort that is true, but there are many of us who just want that effort to be based on a cosmetic improvement versus a stat improvement as they originally stated. I do not mind working for something, but chasing BiS as a carrot is not what sold me on this game and was not what Anet stated their design philosophy to be repeatedly before launch. Those of us that feel this way, and feel that they should be held to their word, simply have very little choice but to be vocal about it so that Anet can at least see that there is dissent amongst it’s player base. The stat grinders will leave this game when the next big thing comes along and if Anet continues down this path they will have also pushed away their original core audience as well.
Fun impacts loot collection.
The rarest items in the game are not more powerful than other items, so you don’t need them to be the best. The rarest items have unique looks to help your character feel that sense of accomplishment, but it’s not required to play the game. We don’t need to make mandatory gear treadmills, we make all of it optional, so those who find it fun to chase this prestigious gear can do so, but those who don’t are just as powerful and get to have fun too.
The rarest item have unique looks. Stop.
They were taking about legendaies, but now they are on pair with ascended. Stop.
Do you have to repeat again and again a specific content to get them? Yes.
Even if you don’t like that specific content? Yes.
Are some of us interested in this form of gamplay. No.
Will we be less strong than people with an ascended set? Yes.
Is all this invalidating their last sentence that sold us this game? Yes.
In a recent interview Colin Johanson said that they were not happy that people were able to full-equip their character in 1 or 2 weeks with exotics.
So Ascended are here to be carrots.
At least Colin said that he really hopes that this is not the beginning of a treadmill.
Sometimes I wonder what people would have said if they had put ascended also in a dungeon merchant for an amount of tokens that devs consider appropriate.
So I thought: if a max stats exotic GS costs like 2g and its equivalent in dungeon’s tokens is 390 (6,5 runs) an ascended GS, that costs like 58g, should costs something like 11.310 tokens.
Well 188,5 runs, 3 at day for 2 months, just for a single item.
But the limit is set to a specific dungeon, so you can always do more thant 3 paths daily and do your JOB working on other pieces farming other dungeons.
Aaah this would be so cool, because I know for sure that people would still come here, on this forum, with their white armors swearing that there is no grind at all.
Is GW2 shifting its target group? from casual gamers to hardcore gamers?
Honestly, I have no idea what their intended target is.
I’m a casual player and these recent changes don’t appeal to me at all. There’s nothing casual about dangling a new time-gated, grindy carrot who’s only purpose is to be a carrot with nothing else to go with it. Once a day time-gating is alienating for this content. What if I can only play on weekends due to being away for work or whatever? There’s plenty of ‘weekend only’ players. 2 days a week we can refine this stuff? Casual implies that I can do this stuff on my own time as I can. The way it is now, I can’t.
But from a ‘hardcore’ standpoint, I couldn’t see how it could be appealing to them either, depending on your definition of hardcore. There’s certainly nothing ‘hard’ about it, its just incredibly tedious and requires no real thought. I would consider hardcore, those who want tough, challenging content that takes time to learn, strategize and conquer. I would not consider those with oodles of time on their hands to be called ‘hardcore’.
I have no idea who they are trying to appeal to at this point. Is there a category for “players who just want fluff”?
Handling of all ascended gear is/was atrocious. Sorry, just terrible planning as a whole. If it is needed in the game, whatever. But they released it into fractals only from the start..and player-gated fractals at the start. Could only join fractals of your level. Soon, people are left behind and noone to play with. They addressed, this but this was the first sign of short-sightedness from Anet.
Then, people whined about how fractals were the only place to acquire ascended. So, laurels are introduced and you can get a myriad of ascended gear from there…and you can get gear from laurels that you cannot obtain in fractals(which is backwards since fractals are the only place you need ascended gear).
Now, you need a crapton of materials from farming, champ zerging, etc…
The acquisition of a complete set is ALL OVER the place.
Uniform it:
Instead of requiring the player to burn laurels for ascended, burn ectos for ascended, run fractals for ascended, and farm materials to craft ascended…
Allow ascended gear, not mats, drop from Champs and has a very rare chance of dropping from any other mob. Ascended materials to craft the gear drops from anything. Any piece can drop from fractals.
Allow the actual pieces to drop. Who flippin cares about more currency and materials farming.
Done.
They could have avoided all this by making ascended the same stats as exotics but just have the slot infusions to add ar. That way if you don’t play fractals you don’t need to get the gear since it’s only benefit is being able to add agony resistance. Some people will defend the decision to gain higher stats because they simply are unable to see that there could have been meaningful character progression without inflating stats, it’s literally all they know and understand. Where Anet is responsible is that they pandered to this crowd, and now have focused development towards stat progression versus other avenues. Perhaps once ascended is finally fully released Anet will go about adding other things to the game and once again resume their horizontal progression philosophy, but I am not holding my breath on that since the playerbase that only understands vertical progression will always need ever increasing numbers to be satisfied. I like the people that make the argument that those of us who like horizontal progression want everything handed to us because we don’t want to work for something, it seems they fail to realize that a great many of us would simply prefer to not have what we work for be stat related. I know I have zero problems with working towards a goal to improve my character in other ways besides simply adding numbers.
Easy way to tell if you are GW2’s target audience:
1.) Do you have a internet connection?
If the answer is yes then you are their target audience. What I mean by this is Anet has very intentionally not over specialized to avoid making themselves a “niche” game. As such, they have watered down the elements that would attract a focused audience to the game. It is to the point that it if you are a player who likes to specialize your playtime you probably won’t be satisfied here. It feels like to me they are trying to wear too many hats, I am sure there are many who would disagree with this but eh, it’s more or less how I see it now. I suppose it’s the price a developer pays for wanting to be a commercial powerhouse in today’s market. Generic and bland like fast food.
I’m actually extremely pessimistic about EQ Next. […]
Sounds like you’re more pessimistic about the MMORPG genre, than EQ Next specifically. It’s hard not to be, considering how quickly GW 2 abandoned it’s rtistic vision. I hold out hope for EQ Next, but the comments on the “contested content” round table make me think the majority of MMO players are interested in more of the same, and not anything new for MMOs.
I have been saying this for some time now, we can blame developers partially but it is also players who hold a lion share of the burden for stagnating innovative ideas in the genre. The explosion in popularity in relatively recent years (post WoW) has a lot to do with it. We are at a point now where there are people who literally “grew up” (I put grew up in quotes not to mean age strictly speaking but also in terms of mmorpg experience.) knowing only one way of doing things in a mmorpg and as such they are conditioned to use that experience to determine their criteria for future endeavors as being “good” or “bad”. Many of these players became attracted to the genre partially because gaming and technology in general lost a lot of it’s social stigma as it gained in rapid popularity post 2000. Along with popularity also comes greater demographic diversity and as we all know trying to appease a wide demographic while it may make something commercially successful does not mean that it will actually be any “good”. You can look at a Hollywood summer blockbuster filled with flashy special effects but lacking substance and yet is wildly financially successful as a comparable. I realize this is a bit of a rant but I sorta miss the old days when computer games were for nerds only lol.
Well, if you are using runes of perplexity and using something like p/s ht,bk,tk,xyz then apothecary is probably a good choice since you are not reliant upon on crit procs to do your condi damage. The problem with this setup is if they nerf perplexity runes and you are forced to go back to another condi build you will probably want the crit chance so in that case rabid is probably the safest bet and what I currently use.
I don’t mind the difference in damage power vs condition, mostly because condition damage ignores target armor. Right now it gives power users a slight advantage because armor values have not increased to keep up with their increased damage output but that will equalize some over time at least in regards to pvp. As far as pve is concerned however they most definitely need to equalize it’s effectiveness in that game mode the only thing I can think of is to remove the stack limitation and overwrite on damaging conditions and move all those calculations to client side versus server side as they currently are. They could possibly do away with stacking all together and make all damaging conditions operate on 1 stack like say how burning functions but remove it’s duration overwrite. The problem with this really comes in the form of bleeding or confusion, what level of damage would you set that 1 stack to equal? 15 or 25 perhaps? It becomes much more difficult for them to balance that idea of “slow ramp up steady damage” So I think the best solution is the first that I originally posted in regards to simply moving the calculations needed from it being server side to client side and removing the “caps and overwrites”. All in all though, I think it is silly for them to try and balance wvw around just ascended weapons until they have the full sets released including armor. So it will take some patience on the part of the community to wait and see how much the whole picture will impact gameplay and then we can adjust accordingly or make pleas to anet to fix things. The stacking issues in pve however really need to be addressed sooner rather than later in my opinion.
Actually yes OP, I would like to see instanced content that makes better use of all the game mechanics available to them as designers. As you stated I don’t want bosses with more hp or that hit harder, I want bosses that make you think and come up with a team plan and rewards you for “smarter” game play. As far as it requiring certain classes, I would rather see it be tied to certain builds that can perform well in a group together that breaks the current “dps” race mold as opposed to saying certain classes. I would like to think that all classes could come up with a build that would fit for these encounters but not all builds can complete it. I really would not like to be forced into a situation where one class gets the shaft.
Trust me, with a very high MF before the patch, exotics and rares were not raining from the sky. Just an increase in blue/greens and higher level crafting materials (T5 instead of T4 for example).
Besides, most of the player base whined about MF and about how useless it was. That is why they removed it in the first place. Not sure how rewarding them with an extra free 20% MF made sense, but who really cares.
Don’t over estimate the value of MF.
MF will not help with precursor drops, yes, but MF absolutely did work in the long-run and with a large enouh sample size.
Check sig for proof.
Also, MF alone doesn’t help you get exotics. High MF + lots of mobs and tagging does in the long run.
So in other words, a slot machine with a prettier interface? Still sad to me that so many people are content with this kind of game design in mmorpgs.
I’m content cause I see the big picture. You are so heavily focused on “RNG is bad” that you don’t even realize that RNG is an alternative for those that want it.
Want that exotic? Go buy it on the TP. That’s a guaranteed way to get it.
There are also exotics that can be acquired for a guaranteed amount of karma, gold, badges and dungeon tokens.
Although, yes, ideally it would be nice if every skin in the game can be acquired through different means.
The “big picture” is subjective in nature since it is a problem of perception. I can assume that you mean that players like rng because of it’s very nature of uncertainty. It is a thrill to gamble for some people, if it wasn’t as you said gambling would not be a multi billion dollar industry. The problem I have with it in video game design is that it is used as an appeal to the human condition in very subversive ways in order to simply keep people playing as opposed to actually designing well thought out content. The game design “best practices” that are commonly accepted today are intentionally manipulative, it just so happens that rng is one of these practices that we can easily point to and compare to other real life scenarios such as gambling. Sure people do things willingly, but that could be said of people who fall for con artists or scams or addicts who are compelled. They participate willingly but are deceived as to the intention of the thing they are involved with either through subversion or self deception.
Trust me, with a very high MF before the patch, exotics and rares were not raining from the sky. Just an increase in blue/greens and higher level crafting materials (T5 instead of T4 for example).
Besides, most of the player base whined about MF and about how useless it was. That is why they removed it in the first place. Not sure how rewarding them with an extra free 20% MF made sense, but who really cares.
Don’t over estimate the value of MF.
MF will not help with precursor drops, yes, but MF absolutely did work in the long-run and with a large enouh sample size.
Check sig for proof.
Also, MF alone doesn’t help you get exotics. High MF + lots of mobs and tagging does in the long run.
So in other words, a slot machine with a prettier interface? Still sad to me that so many people are content with this kind of game design in mmorpgs.
This is the main reason I don’t play as often as I used to. Farming and zergs, I feel like I’m a treadmill doing repetitive stuff that just isn’t fun. It’s like a large chunk of the player base are mindless lemmings, following each other from one event to another…not even caring if they win the event or not as long as they get loot
That is exactly what is happening (many players don’t even realize it though), through the use of rng skinner box tactics. Companies figured out a long time ago if you randomize how frequently a “food pellet” is rewarded it will keep the “rats” pressing buttons indefinitely in response to a stimuli. Same exact principle behind slot machines, just a bit more cleverly disguised in mmorpg’s. It’s called “appealing to the human condition” and is touted as good game design by many in the industry.
The game has turned into something that is not meant for you.
Have you played the original Guild Wars? I did. Once in a while, a new player would appear in one of the GW1 forums saying, “Why is the level cap so low? Why can’t we keep grinding for better gear? Why aren’t there mounts?”, and we would reply telling the player that Guild Wars was not the kind of game he was asking for.
Now, the table has turned. ArenaNet realized that, whatever definition of “success” they have, it’s easier to be successful through the farmers than through other players, like you and me.
So they have changed Guild Wars 2. You are not its target audience anymore. Neither am I. GW2’s target audience are the farmers, grinders, addicts and exploiters who want every new content to be almost intolerable, so they can be one of the few who can endure going through it, in order to get some kind of reward and then try to show off; those players call this “dedication and effort”.
Other players are not really wanted; the kind of content they want is far more expensive and harder to make than easy mindless grind.
I couldn’t agree more, and sadly as long as the mmorpg community by in large stays content with “status quo” and keep spending their money these game design elements will likely never go away. Companies can not afford to be different in this market as much as they may want to be because the player base won’t allow it to happen. It’s a sad reality but it is what it is. From a business perspective I can’t blame a company for wanting to pay their bills and turn a profit in the easiest manner possible, it’s only when the majority of the players demand something different that the deviation from the boring usual methods will actually happen though.
Besides, even Colin J. admits they don’t have a issue with people “farming” here I will let his words speak for themselves. http://youtu.be/Jy7CcwnfUdU?t=22m52s
I am going to take a stab in the dark and say probably not any time soon, based on this: http://youtu.be/Jy7CcwnfUdU?t=1m40s
Seems to me they were not happy with how “easy” exotics were to get. Doesn’t bode well for adding multiple avenues for getting these new ascended items, or if they do I am sure they will still be time gated in some way because he pretty clearly states he likes the time frames they are now using. Makes sense given what he said that they nerfed karma gain across the board back to slightly better than it was before they added karma from dailies. So I think they are still just basically trying to poke around and see the format they want to use, and it’s probably not static and will most likely change in response to player fluctuation numbers.
Yeah, I had a feeling.
I would really like there to be a way to earn an ascended weapon though. Like I said, 100 laurels for a single weapon would be fine with me. As long as I can earn my weapon just by playing the game, instead of leveling up various crafting professions.
I dunno. I play Guild Wars 2 to kill things. I love how dungeon tokens, laurels, etc. work. I don’t mind adding more of that stuff in the game. Instead of having to sink a ton of gold into crafting materials just to get to the level of crafting I need to make a weapon so that I can kill things 10% faster.
I agree with you 100%, I rarely craft in any mmorpg. It just isn’t something I ever enjoyed much, if it were tied to having a cosmetic item I certainly wouldn’t care, but the direction of gating BiS gear just for the people who complained and can’t see how they can add meaningful character progression without simply inflating stats pretty well ticks me off. Now that they are in the game though, I don’t want to be at a disadvantage stat wise no matter how small the difference is. People often say you don’t need them to complete content, then one must ask…why are they even in the game as opposed to keeping with the horizontal progression scheme they initially touted.
Actually before ascended weapons came out, ArenaNet stated that after their release, engineer kit damage would get increased to ascended levels. And it did when the patch released, but for some reason they just dropped it back down to exotic. What the hell? This means NO ENGINEER WHO USES KITS is allowed to gain ascended weapon damage.
Not saying they didn’t say this, but perhaps you could point to the source and give a bit more supporting information like actual numbers to verify the changes and troubleshoot what is going on. What I mean is are you certain that the kit strength scaling was actually correct before this most recent fix and it has not simply been brought back down to where it should be. I don’t want to come across as skeptical but without more actual information it is hard to tell what is going on.
Well you are still loosing out on condition damage stats. Pistols dont scale terribly well for direct damage sure.
It also kinda makes this whole “big update” kinda moot for a lot of people. I’d be working on getting pistols that dont have the stats i want or need. And that dont actually scale the damage on my kits, outside of stats.
A lot of time and effort for the smallest possible upgrade. Why bother? Kinda dull.
If someone uses 1h weapons the difference between exotic and ascended is 8 condition damage (at least according to gw2builder, I don’t have a legendary and couldn’t find another source listing the difference). So yeah, I guess that is the point I was trying to make, is it is relatively good news in my opinion to not have to worry about grinding out these weapons for certain wvw related specs. How far behind the curve engi becomes in power specs really remains to be seen in regards to how Anet eventually handles adjusting kit strength.
“Fixed an unintended damage increase that caused engineer kits, elementalist conjures, and warrior banners to deal more damage than intended.”
Awesome.
oh a Nerf, haven’t seen one of these in a while.
Not really a nerf if it is a fix for something that isn’t supposed to be. That being said, I assume it’s in relation to this patch and not the kit strength we have all come to know for the last however many months.
I am going to take a stab in the dark and say probably not any time soon, based on this: http://youtu.be/Jy7CcwnfUdU?t=1m40s
Seems to me they were not happy with how “easy” exotics were to get. Doesn’t bode well for adding multiple avenues for getting these new ascended items, or if they do I am sure they will still be time gated in some way because he pretty clearly states he likes the time frames they are now using. Makes sense given what he said that they nerfed karma gain across the board back to slightly better than it was before they added karma from dailies. So I think they are still just basically trying to poke around and see the format they want to use, and it’s probably not static and will most likely change in response to player fluctuation numbers.
Why add ascended crafting before precursor crafting? Makes no sense, ascended item will obviously be harder to craft. Plus they have lied before, at this point I’ll only believe an official announcement on their webpage about it.
Well, I am not sure what to tell you to be honest. You should at least feel some comfort that it is on their radar, as it was not a answer to a question about that issue specifically he brought that up voluntarily.
I definitely feel better. I may even reinstall the game now.
But I’d feel a hell of a lot better if they said something about it directly in an announcement on their web page. Plans may have changed for it to be ascended weapon only or something, you never know…
I hear ya, that is the part of mmorpg’s that are both exciting and frustrating. You never really know what changes are going to happen. Sometimes they make sense to us as a player and sometimes they don’t because we can’t see all the variables the developers do. So it is clear I am not “white knighting” Anet, ascended gear pretty much has me fuming because the interpretation I had of the product being sold is not the one I now have in front of me. Hopefully they can see their way clear of time gating and rng for BiS gear and keep progression purely horizontal as future development occurs or at the very least don’t allow it to get worse than it is at the moment. If they can think of some compelling ways to offer character progression (let’s face it who doesn’t like to feel a sense of progress) without simply further increasing numbers I know I will personally be all the happier for it.
Why add ascended crafting before precursor crafting? Makes no sense, ascended item will obviously be harder to craft. Plus they have lied before, at this point I’ll only believe an official announcement on their webpage about it.
Well, I am not sure what to tell you to be honest. You should at least feel some comfort that it is on their radar, as it was not a answer to a question about that issue specifically he brought that up voluntarily.
This was not a promising patch for Engineers. Not only have none of the rather serious bugs been fixed. Not only is there no Giver’s ascended weapon (prec/vit/cond. duration), but my kits will most likely not scale with having an ascended weapon either.
So, whats the point for me to even bother with this? Dont get me wrong, its kinda liberating in a way knowing that i dont have to partake in this geargrind. Untill you realize this means my performance is just going to fall behind.
The good news is that if you are a condition user the impact will actually be felt much less since you are not relying on the direct damage from a weapon or a kit in favor of a pure stat calculation that is not affected by armor value. Obviously ascended does have slightly higher stat values but those individual stats have a much less defined impact than weapon or kit strength does in a power build. So I would say for a condi based pvp engi there is really very little to worry about in terms of being grossly out performed, but need someone who is good with the math to confirm this “gut feeling”.
Despite what certain individuals in this thread seem to think, condition damage should be just as viable for pve as power. Why anyone would ever argue against opening up build diversity is beyond me but whatever. I wouldn’t hold out much hope that Anet will ever get around to addressing it though to be honest, since this has been a known concern since the BWE’s. But just in case there is someone from Anet who has any sway with making the changes needed to promote build/gear diversity in pve, I would like to plead with them to make this happen.
I am pretty sure they will never make a legendary account bound. There is almost no incentive for them to make any changes to their current system of doing things until people stop spending money and stop logging on. For all their talk there is no such thing as a altruistic gaming company. Games are expensive to make, they need to recoup the cost of that and make a profit, and as such they will do that in the way that easiest for them from a design standpoint. Why else do you think we ever have rng in a game? It keeps people playing by adding inflated time sink without having to constantly be designing new “content”. So in the same vein as using rng they also implement things like bound to character, it is defensible since it makes sense that each character is a separate entity from one another and if one character acquires something not all characters automatically have obtained it. So it is clear I am not defending the possible reasons a company has for using these types of design elements but it really just boils down to it is what it is, companies will continue to use this type of thing until people vote with the only that really matters to any business and that is with their wallets.
Well the thing is.. I HIGHLY doubt someone buy gems to buy legendaries. that would be around 1000$. Also, not many people get the same legendary either
i just want a reply from Anet… if its in their plans or not
I am sure there are people that do purchase gems to convert to gold to buy things they want in a game. I mean heck it’s not uncommon for people to buy accounts in some games. Besides the direct money from people spending on getting the items directly, the current system allows to charge for trans stones etc etc. Personally I agree that because of the time and or luck needed to get a legendary they should be account bound, but then again I am looking at it from a consumer stand point as opposed to the seller stand point that wants to generate revenue.
I am pretty sure they will never make a legendary account bound. There is almost no incentive for them to make any changes to their current system of doing things until people stop spending money and stop logging on. For all their talk there is no such thing as a altruistic gaming company. Games are expensive to make, they need to recoup the cost of that and make a profit, and as such they will do that in the way that easiest for them from a design standpoint. Why else do you think we ever have rng in a game? It keeps people playing by adding inflated time sink without having to constantly be designing new “content”. So in the same vein as using rng they also implement things like bound to character, it is defensible since it makes sense that each character is a separate entity from one another and if one character acquires something not all characters automatically have obtained it. So it is clear I am not defending the possible reasons a company has for using these types of design elements but it really just boils down to it is what it is, companies will continue to use this type of thing until people vote with the only that really matters to any business and that is with their wallets.
With the rapid delivery of temporary content, Anet doesn’t really have time to think through stuff like this. A long-term focus on deep storytelling and quality content is one of the sacrifices they have made for the perceived value of rapid delivery of, well, I’m not sure what to call it other than less than what it could be.
I will say it for you…..it’s garbage, subpar and unimaginative in every way possible.
I think thats my biggest concern really. I put in effort to finish ascended weps/armor then 6 months later they potentially make it worthless by adding a new max level or new tier of armor.
It is definitely an uncertainty that I think is the main cause for a lot of the complaints. Guess we’ll see next year how it all unfolds.
Though I think if they do add new tiers, they should give us the ability to upgrade current gear in the MF with some recipe. So that gear isn’t totally vendor/salvage trakitten least.
I’m not too sure where I stand on the subject though. Its annoying for sure, but it is a aspect that you can’t deny its existence. I honestly just think I would enjoy the game more if I didn’t have to worry about gear anymore after this tier finishes up. But they seem to think its a way to give us something to keep us coming back (I thought that was what the LS was for :P).
/shrug Overall, it feels like an unnecessary inclusion imo.
I am fairly certain that current mf gear holders will get a one time item to change the mf stat, it was what I gathered from the dev livestream where the question was asked how it was being handled. Sounds like it will function similarly to the way legendaries will now function but with only a one time use. It is possible I misunderstood what Linsey was saying, but I am pretty sure that is what is going down.
On that part I was talking about mystic forge upgrading not magic find. I thought I should change it after I wrote it since it is the same initials as magic find. Sorry for the confusion.
Oh, heh yeah my bad I failed at reading context this morning
I think thats my biggest concern really. I put in effort to finish ascended weps/armor then 6 months later they potentially make it worthless by adding a new max level or new tier of armor.
It is definitely an uncertainty that I think is the main cause for a lot of the complaints. Guess we’ll see next year how it all unfolds.
Though I think if they do add new tiers, they should give us the ability to upgrade current gear in the MF with some recipe. So that gear isn’t totally vendor/salvage trakitten least.
I’m not too sure where I stand on the subject though. Its annoying for sure, but it is a aspect that you can’t deny its existence. I honestly just think I would enjoy the game more if I didn’t have to worry about gear anymore after this tier finishes up. But they seem to think its a way to give us something to keep us coming back (I thought that was what the LS was for :P).
/shrug Overall, it feels like an unnecessary inclusion imo.
I am fairly certain that current mf gear holders will get a one time item to change the mf stat, it was what I gathered from the dev livestream where the question was asked how it was being handled. Sounds like it will function similarly to the way legendaries will now function but with only a one time use. It is possible I misunderstood what Linsey was saying, but I am pretty sure that is what is going down.
If you do come back, roll a engineer and use multiple kits. The high APM to be as effective as you can, makes the combat quite interesting (personal opinion of course). It is also one of the few classes where nearly everything is best played as a combo of sorts (ele also works this way) so there is no pressing one button to win and then collect loot. Yes it does mean that you are pressing more buttons to get a similar effect as some other classes get with pressing one button but don’t let anyone try to tell you that makes it subpar compared to other choices. It’s all a matter of if you find the play style engaging or not, higher skill floor and ceiling, no you won’t really exceed other “easier” to play classes but you certainly won’t fall behind them either. So the reward for playing one well really only comes in the satisfaction that you are playing a class that many people simply have not learned to play to it’s full potential.
As I have said multiple times, the mmorpg community is largely the people to be held responsible for finding ourselves in this situation where rng is used to keep people playing through a skinner box system. Developers learned they can keep people pressing buttons for their “food pellets” if they randomize the frequency of the reward. It’s common industry practice, even touted as being “good” game design because it appeals to “the human condition” which is a generically ambivalent phrase that can be used to suit all kinds of meanings. So long as players make arguments to support this kind of activity mmorpgs will not progress beyond the lazy design standard to simply keep people playing. I realize these companies are a business and as such they need to make a profit and the best way to do that is to have people playing their game, but seriously does anyone think there are not better options that could be used besides relying on rng. It is no surprise however that developers take the easy route, because so many people have been so conditioned to this by now (the sad part is that many don’t even realize it), it is the modus operandi by which all mmorpg designers make their games. Anet proved they could push out “content” every two weeks, in fact they are proud of being able to do such, so why then do they require “carrot on a stick” rng to keep people playing? The answer is simple, the community won’t allow them to try to be different.
Here is to hoping that I actually get some rng luck on my side since my highest crafting level is like 10. I rarely craft in any mmo and to now make a BiS piece of gear more or less exclusive to crafting is just ugh for me. My disappointment is compounded by Anet’s decision to go this way with their game, I realize they want to be a popular mmo….but pandering to the crowd that has been trained to only see progression as increasing stats just really makes me sad for the future of the genre as a whole. Unimaginative players that are comfortable with unimaginative design, are going to keep mmorpg game development status quo for a very long time.
It’s pretty simple really. Anet in gw1 made it easy to obtain BiS gear and the grind was for cosmetic. GW2 was initially touted as being the same, it was supposed to be horizontal progression. People naturally want to feel like they are making some progress it’s just that most players are so used to skinner box type games that they have been conditioned to only see progression as adding stats. These players fail to see how meaningful character progression can be added without just having better numbers. What Anet has done is gone against a company philosophy (and the manifesto they hyped up so much pre release) in order to appease the masses. If people want progression that is fine, make it cosmetic, make it skill related, just don’t make it the boring gear progression. If Anet simply made the ascended easy to get like exotic there would be much less “complaints” from those of us who bought this game on the premise they were selling. As it stands now Anet has thrown themselves into the ring with every other mmorpg, and many of them do what this game is attempting to do better, they lost their niche, their edge, and their desire to be different. Sad days for the gaming world indeed.
Weapons are account bound, you either craft those or pray you win the lottery and one that you can use drops, but considering drop rates on other stuff i wouldnt count on that.
Well, that part of the lottery you WON’T have to play – if one drops it’ll drop in the form of a chest that you can turn into the ascended weapon type of your choice. You’ll never get and ascended drop you can’t use because of type/class mismatch.
Some of the timegated components you make are tradeable, however it still sounds like the only way to get the weapon is through crafting or a rng drop. Why they had to implement it this way is beyond me and it is a extremely disappointing turn of events as far as I am concerned. They should have made them gotten as easily as exotics are and be done with it, keep the grind to cosmetic, let BiS be easy to obtain.
I think you’re all overreacting, since I don’t know whether its gated per account or per character. GW2 isn’t in the gear treadmill stage yet, so no reason to call it that. It will be if we get another gear type after ascended though within the next year, but I doubt that. The only gear type we’ll get after ascended is legendary, but that won’t be this year so no worries.
Some people like gated content, or just don’t mind it at all. The forums are the only place ive really heard complaints. In game, I dont see any complaints from people. Only goes to show the difference between the two communities.
Why shouldn’t people be upset about having a game sold to them making one claim and then Anet simply just changes their design direction a few short months after the game is released. If they simply made ascended gear obtainable through multiple avenues like the exotics currently are (ie, dungeon tokens, karma etc etc) there would be much less “complaining”. Whether or not it is a treadmill is not so relevant as it is definitely vertical progression as opposed to the horizontal progression that was promised. You can say they won’t add another tier of gear after ascended but you simply don’t know if that will hold true or not since Anet already introduced this tier after the introduction of the game. The only way to send a clear message that not everyone is ok with vertical progression is to voice our opinion of the matter. If people want “progression” in the game make it cosmetic, make it character related but don’t make it BiS gear progression, that goes against everything GW2 was sold as.
Nope, because kits and bundles don’t get their weapon strength updated, so even if you have the ascended weapons you will still be weaker using any kind of kit/bundle.
What content are you unable to accomplish without this as yet unavailable weapon?
I keep hearing all this whining about gating you off from max level gear but what exactly are you going to be able to do with it that you arnt able to do now? Kill Lupi in 12 seconds instead of 15? Its just another thing for casuals to get in a huff about
How about if Anet had stuck to their manifesto and actually kept horizontal progression. It literally has nothing to do with being “casual” or “hardcore” when it breaks from their original stated intent.
I just saw the livestream, and I’m sad that most likely will say good bye gw2. I’m not really fan of grind and even less of time gating. I was just begining to build up my alternative chars, but I cannot becouse I’ll have to build even (a lot more) my main. For only a single build (considering several weapons, I’m sorry for warriors) will take the eternity… Were really fun during this time and I was believing that this game were the best game ever made, but I’m wrong. I’ll wait a little more to see, but most likely I’ll leave the game.
Welcome to the World of Guild Wars 2!
I want to see just how bad the economic damage from this is, but I expect it to be just as bad, or worse, than I’m thinking. This new tier is relying way too heavily on T6 materials, and even weapons, with ascended weapons requiring materials that can only be acquired by salvaging exotics.
Curiosity will keep me around just to see the fallout, but I’m done with GW2 beyond standing around in LA and using it as a means to socialize with some friends. WvW had been what kept me interested in GW2 the most. Account bound wvw ranks were a huge blow to that, and these new weapons, with their wide-spread economic impact, are the final hit.
I did not buy GW2 to be sent on a year long grind to get new weapons, but this is exactly what Anet’s pandering to fans of other games has done. Enjoy your new grind “loyal” fans till they get their single character/build a new weapon and move on to a game with even more grind, they’re going to be all you have left when you’re done destroying what used to be the best MMO on the market.
Why did not they just created more weapons skills, utility skills, traits, MORE DIVERSITY? Do they really want to blow this game up with no reason? I just wonder where the “horizontal progression went”…
It went out the window the moment Anet decided they wanted to be “bigtime” and try and cater to a large mainstream audience. Many players that came from other mmo’s more or less demanded they wanted certain things like “Progression” which in their minds is only vertical gear progression because that is how they have been trained like Pavlov’s Dog. Anet pandered and voila this is what we get.
I don’t think you understood my point. The content of this game is not getting harder with the introduction of Ascended weapons. Anything you can do now with an Exotic weapon you will still be able to do with an Exotic weapon. Quite frankly, the content of this game (with the exception of higher level Fractals) can very feasibly be done in all Rares, but people require Exotics for the simple fact that they’re there.
It’s like when you buy a TV, and a few months later a newer version of that TV comes out. It doesn’t make your TV useless, it still does all the things it did when you bought it. The idea that you NEED to have it is completely in your mind. Same goes for Ascended gear. If you want it, then you will put the time and energy required to get it because that’s what video games are. If not, then you won’t.
Yet, when you watch your tv another person can’t come along and say my tv is better you have to get a new tv or else you can’t watch tv. Watch what happens once the ascended items are available, the self appointed "leets’ will start their usual segregation campaign. Whether or not people actually need something versus wanting something is rather irrelevant, when Anet could have just stuck to their guns and made BiS gear easy to get like the current exotics and only make a cosmetic grind as they said they would.
So, hm, first we get this stuff put in to allow crafting as opposed to RNG drops in a dungeon like it was with Rings and Fractals . . . (with an option for world-wide RNG drops from what I read) and it’s a complaint it doesn’t drop in dungeons?
When it was dropping in dungeons, there were complaints about no other way of getting it . . .
I’m going to just sigh if, in two months, we see a dungeon or event which is specially made to drop Ascended gear because people want it easier, then people complain about the crafting update being useless.
^THIS. It just proves that the GW2 community is spoiled and can’t completely be satisfied. The forum community is this way at least. The only thing I agree with is that there doesnt need to be time-gating for an entire account. It needs to be separate per character.
Or you know they could just have stuck to what they said they were going to do from the beginning and made only cosmetic grind not BiS grind. They could also have implemented it the way it currently functions with exotics which allows you to craft, do dungeons, use karma and get the items directly. It keeps in line with what their initial stated goals were for the game, what they are implementing now does not.
I still don’t see a good complaint. Maybe its just because I don’t mind grind or working towards something even if it takes a month. Again, I’ll say, part of the reason we can’t do a really cool instance or dungeon to obtain a certain item is because people will then come and say they are being forced. Making something obtainable through universal materials which are obtainable through pve and wvw will please both parties.
If we had a really cool dungeon, like I said, every PVP and WVW player would complain and threaten to leave.
Why could they not stick with their current method of acquiring exotics and apply that to acquiring ascended? Then they could take the grind in only a cosmetic direction as was initially said was going to be the case for the game.
Sorry for the confusion.
