I actually agree with you, but every attempt I have made at presenting a case to it is met with the equivalent of “you just don’t want your op runeset nerfed”. I think the problem many people have is when they see something they don’t like they typically will only consider it from one narrow viewpoint to make their case. In a 1v1 setting these runes are definitely strong and they do exactly as you say “punish skill spammers” but it works on both sides of the fence, if I have the runes and I spam my interrupts and the other player does not spam their skills they will most likely win, and vice versa if they spam skills and I don’t I will most likely win. There is a hatred in this game by many for conditions in general and especially confusion, these runes are just the icing on the cake and something for some players to take up arms about.
You can still compete just fine if you have exotic jewlery, the stat difference is not so large that it keeps you from being able to win. I only have one character that has all ascended trinkets the rest have exotics and I really have no issues with them. That is not to say that there is no advantage to having ascended but player skill will more than make up for the loss in stats, I guess what I should say is it’s not an automatic loss if you have exotic and they have ascended.
Yes, I suspect the number one problem with most of the posts here is that person’s complete inability to put themselves in another’s shoes. It’s sad, really.
Except that everyone here was new to the game at some point right? We all made due and figured it out either by accident or through using something like google or these forums to find the info we needed. I am not saying that tutorials are really a bad thing, it’s just wasted developer time when most people skip them anyway. What is wrong with having at least a little sense of wonderment and confusion in the beginning? I guess I am the type of person that likes to discover things on their own, it’s part of the reason I play mmorpg’s, I want that sense of exploration and not being told what to do at every step.
GG man, do people really need their hands held that much that they are not capable of googling something? On a more serious note, I would wager that the reasons these things are not in the game is two fold:
1.) Developer resources
2.) To give the appearance of a sandbox title and to try and encourage people to discover things on their own.
Any efforts by Anet to “make dungeons harder” will probably just add time gating a la Molten Facility or Mai Trin/Horrik’s annoying AoE phase. Though I guess some of the gauntlet enemies had interesting mechanics, like the 4 pirates that would give each other different abilities depending on who you kill first.
But then, look at how whiny baby cry cry everyone got over the AC changes, then look at how they screamed about the Liadri gauntlet, then imagine them making a dungeon boss that was actually “difficult”.
Stop hating on farming! It is the essence of Gw2 and it is easy to understand unlike complicated raid mechanics in other games.. repetition like farming is familiar and a good thing as more and more is implemented, Arena Net are geniuses!!!
LOL you sir are a fantastic troll, but don’t worry your secret is safe with me!
”In the hands of a good player” whaaaat….. It requieres 0 player skills to make this rune deadly specially as an engi.. This rune is very scary and eventually will have to get nerfed. In the meantime it is very fun easy mode to play with them
Bad players that just spam skills when they are on cd will not get the most benefit from this runeset since you have to actually interrupt in order to get that 6/6 bonus. Yes on a engi we do have more opportunity to interrupt (if we build for it) than some other classes but that doesn’t make the runeset itself op. I mean hell, you could already stack that much confusion with a mesmer and everyone largely ignored confusion as a condition after the nerf, granted they typically had slower timing in generating cover conditions. It’s just everyone is pointing to this runeset and showing edited video"evidence" with conditions favorable to the build and runeset and claiming it needs to be nerfed into oblivion. If you look at this video, that guy who was attacking the dolyak, literally didn’t even know anyone was around him….you can’t seriously expect that someone with that kind of level of awareness would have won anyway with or without this runeset being used. My personal opinion is that it needs to be considered from all perspectives not just in a 1v1 scenario, give it time to develop and if people can’t figure out a way to counterplay it then and only then should it be nerfed. These callings for “nerf xyz because it’s op” before giving people time to adjust and actually figure out ways to deal with certain scenarios results in wild swings and shifts in balance or Anet missing their mark entirely when they get to swinging the nerfhammer. Just as likely that anet would look at this and go hmm engineers have too many interrupts we need to fix that
I wish I had a nickel for every tooltip that was either incorrect or missing information.
Thing is even in effect it’s not a leap, it doesn’t give a leap finisher but a blast. The reason I put “fly” in quotes is because of course it’s not actually flying, you are trying to make a case that it is a leap but there really is nothing leap like about it other than it has a similar result in creating distance.
As I posted on the video, makes you time your skills and punishes skill spammers… Working as intended, it’s pretty clear that Anet wanted to have this kind of play included in the game especially if you look at all the on interrupt traits mesmers have gotten as an example. In the hands of a good player it’s deadly, in the hands of a bad player, well I guess the confusion duration is nice…..
I can’t think of a more unimaginative, uninspired way to spend the time I do have to play than farming. It just goes to show that people are perfectly fine with tedious and mind numbing rng so long as they can pull the handle and take another hit off the wheel of fortune. Sad day that people have been conditioned now to accept status quo as entertainment and it is so far from what Anet’s manifesto spoke of that I can’t help but feel lost.
Most of the non farming gaming experience in this game is below par, unimaginative, uninspired and really rather tedious if I’m being honest.
That is precisely my point, everything in this game is farm related including the dungeons. Once the shiny surface fades you realize that all that is left in this game is just collection activity which they use as a carrot on a stick by time gating, or overly inflating the amount of any particular item needed to make something. It’s a shallow experience and for as much as they tried to tout innovation it really isn’t, they are just better at making people think they are doing things differently not that they actually are. I do at least enjoy sPvP and solo roaming in WvW so those are things that hold me here, but from a pve perspective this game is just subpar at best in my opinion (better throw that opinion part in since I am not trying to make a claim to fact).
I can’t think of a more unimaginative, uninspired way to spend the time I do have to play than farming. It just goes to show that people are perfectly fine with tedious and mind numbing rng so long as they can pull the handle and take another hit off the wheel of fortune. Sad day that people have been conditioned now to accept status quo as entertainment and it is so far from what Anet’s manifesto spoke of that I can’t help but feel lost. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=txlWaXDX0_Q
Me too! I especially love using ft auto cuz I get to use juggernaut, it makes me a tank and I get to use the highest auto attacks damage in the game! 6k crits from the entire channel at 25 might/vuln! You gais just said I needed to wear zerker gear! Plus Mortar OP
As I said in the original post, there is a lot that OP said that I do not agree with. However, the key point is that a change of mindset is necessary. This I agree with. A great many complaints I have seen revolve around how GW2 does not have a lot of the things that most main stream MMO’s have. This is true, and it’s because GW2 is trying to do a lot of things different. They’re experimenting, changing, evolving, moving. In order to appreciate this I believe people need to approach the game with a clean slate, free of preconceptions and expectations. I’m not saying people should lower their standards, but rather to change the compass of those standards. Instead of following the typical MMO needle north, go east, south, or west.
I agree with this, my only real complaint with this game is lack of compelling new content in favor of “easily” digested bits and pieces. The reliance on zerg style of gameplay just feels like it is doing the same thing that many many mmorpg’s do in that it is simply kill x mob y times over and over again. It is apparent that many people seem to enjoy this type of content and I don’t fault them for it. It just makes me sad because for all of the innovation that GW2 spoke of it’s really just all of a superficial nature at this point because it is falling back on the old tried and true methods to keep people simply playing. Maybe there is no gear treadmill per se but there still is plenty of carrot on a stick in the form of rng, time gating etc etc. Sure they give players lots of chances to get “loot” which they then overly inflate the amount of any said item needed to create certain things. I am probably in the minority that I would much rather see less “loot” but have it be of a more substantial nature when you do get something. I just feel like they are taking the path of least resistance, and while I realize it’s good from a business standpoint (and they are a business afterall) it’s actually bad from a innovation stand point. Sadly it seems the community itself is often times perfectly fine with status quo so long as on the surface it appears to be different.
I think this thread would serve better purpose in the tech support portion of the forum. To be honest I don’t think the problem is as widespread as you might be under the impression it is. If you have submitted a ticket and tech support was unable to help you then you should speak with them about potentially getting a refund though I wouldn’t hold my breath on that if I were you. As for the statement that GW1 is far superior you forgot to add in my opinion. If you literally find nothing redeeming about the game then just move on.
I only know that I will not play more guildwars 2 until TW FW / UP will not be accessible to all.
Why should a explorable dungeon path be made accessible to all? Explorable dungeons were meant to be the challenging content in the game for organized groups to replace the content that was traditionally in the realm of raids in other mmorpgs. You do a disservice to yourself and the community at large by expecting the standard to be lowered. Especially since it has been proven that it is not impossible to complete.
Because I play how I want!
Me too! I especially love using ft auto cuz I get to use juggernaut, it makes me a tank and I get to use the highest auto attacks damage in the game! 6k crits from the entire channel at 25 might/vuln! You gais just said I needed to wear zerker gear! Plus Mortar OP
Pulzar, I am actually with you on this. I don’t want it to be a gear treadmill, but I also despise the grindy just kill x mob y times until you are blue in the face direction this game is heading. If other people enjoy that type of playstyle that is of course their prerogative, but Anet should be developing content that is not solely reliant upon that formula in my opinion.
The only thing I will say to this is that is your interpretation of what the game is meant to be. You are welcome to it of course, but I wouldn’t be so surprised that not everyone shares the same vision you do. People will perceive things in their own way, while I do not agree with your interpretation, I would not go so far as to try and argue that you are wrong or I am right because both arguments are entirely subjective. Having said all this, if I may offer a small opinionated suggestion about the tone of your post. You may want to avoid using phrases like “first thing you need to do” it strikes me as giving a decree and speaks from a tone of absolutes as if what you are trying to present is fact. This may not be your intention, but it is certainly how I read it. Anyhow, I am glad that you enjoy the game and have found your happiness! As for me while I do enjoy many aspects of GW2, the current design trends leave me scratching my head and doubting my longevity with the game that in my opinion is failing to deliver on so much untapped potential in favor of mass appeasement.
Yeah…..I’ve been a fan of gw2 since I started playing and had enjoyed the living story content get better and better. Sanctum was great, with a new map, challenges, mini-games.
This is just bleh now. I have no interest in zerging the same mobs for hours. When they said some form of raiding content was coming, I had the unrealistic hope of something that took more effort or organization and cooperation. This zerging is stupid. How much coordination does it take to have 50 ppl "press1’ a mob to death then swarm to the next one? If people want to do this for hours on end for coin, power to them. Money is pointless in this game as it is, I have 200 gold sitting in my wallet I have no use for atm :P
Anyway, like Aberrant said, you can’t change the way people play or if they enjoy it or not. Let them be. And you can’t change the world with a little topic here. There’s too many people for it and the numbers of people doing it speak for itself. If you don’t like it, you have to either play the aspects of the game you do like or don’t play at all. Personally, this trends not for me. I’ll login and do my dailies and something fun if it arises….but if they keep going with this zerg-everything trend, might be time to see whats on the horizon for new MMO’s. Just gonna wait and see if they keep this trend going or not.
I agree, it’s just sad to see a game that had so much potential initially turn into a uninspired showcase of tedium. I wouldn’t consider myself a hardcore gamer anymore mostly because of time constraints, but I still can’t believe that people are satisfied with unimaginative game design and development which seems to be the direction Anet is heading. I realize not everyone wants super difficult content but there are other ways to go about implementing entertainment besides either make it difficult or make it grindy, like I dunno more actual story based content as just one example. I mean even things like the order’s skins or the cultural armors had a perfect chance for them to develop content around obtaining those beyond just a exercise in how well you can farm for gold/karma. It’s just lazy from design stand point, of course I realize developer resources are limited and all that but there is so much more they could do. Once some of these other mmo title’s release and go through their initial bleed out phase after the first few months it will be interesting to see where this game stands.
Form a squad or whatever it’s called, announce it in map then simply talk to the people in the squad. You can have up to 50 players in there so that should be ample amount of people to lead.
I only know that I will not play more guildwars 2 until TW FW / UP will not be accessible to all.
Why should a explorable dungeon path be made accessible to all? Explorable dungeons were meant to be the challenging content in the game for organized groups to replace the content that was traditionally in the realm of raids in other mmorpgs. You do a disservice to yourself and the community at large by expecting the standard to be lowered. Especially since it has been proven that it is not impossible to complete.
Maybe if it wasn’t 100% Zerg farming all the time it MIGHT be interesting.
You guys go ahead and enjoy your Zerg farm, I don’t plan on participating in it.
100% WvW for me until they make some changes to that farming junk.
I have never seen 100% of the people on these events just zerg. The average large group size seems to be about 25-30. This is a perfect example of grossly exaggerating the “problem” to try to get your way.
you’d be surprise to see how many people find that the most FUN thing to do is getting those sweet sweet loot. seeing some orange items gained over and over again.. opening boxes that gain them gold in hope of a rare chance to get the winning lottery.. even with all the repetition thats going on within the activity!
well sure.. some people like challenge and hard fights, but as much as how many of these people that like hard content, there are equal or more people that like ease content..
not all people think like you and your thought doesn’t represent all.
what you’re saying is just..
I find champ zerging / CoFarm / [insert next farm here] boring, and I dont want to see everybody else gain materials/ gold from them, thus the perfect thing to do is nerfing them!!!
I agree to an extent with your sentiment, if people want to do this kind of content and find it fun that’s fine people should be able to find something enjoyable, but they certainly are not entitled to disproportionate rewards for it. I am not sure why people feel that they should be able to do the most simple task and also receive the best rewards at the same time. It’s quite frankly depressing to think that this is what so many people seem to want.
The best farm as of late was the ember farm. It was hardly the most simple thing to do well. TONS of people didn’t have a clue about how to do it properly and were constantly complaining that they didn’t get credit for the loot. So it took knowledge and skill (not to get killed while being the first to tag 4-5 champs + vets + trash mobs to ensure loot). It was also competitive. If you didn’t get the tag in early, you got nothing regardless of how much damage you dealt.
Compare this do an average dung. You will always get the loot as long as you kill. You will not be facing this many strong mobs at any given time. You are given a certainty of obtaining exotic weapons with multiple stat choices
through tokens. You are given a certainty of getting a chest to loot plus one from any champs. You are given a certainty of a gold reward.
You gave up certainty for the chance at higher rewards with higher risk involved.
The average player is not doing any of those things. If these zerg farms were so risky and really had the chance to yield nothing then there would not be so many people doing it. The most common response I have seen is that it is easy and that is why people do them because they don’t want to work for something. If you can’t complete a dungeon path you don’t get the tokens or the gold. What you speak of is in terms of efficiency, and with that I agree, for getting as much loot as possible there is no better alternative to the zergfest, but using ember as the lone shining example and touting it as if it’s the pinnacle of skilled play is just doing a disservice.
you’d be surprise to see how many people find that the most FUN thing to do is getting those sweet sweet loot. seeing some orange items gained over and over again.. opening boxes that gain them gold in hope of a rare chance to get the winning lottery.. even with all the repetition thats going on within the activity!
well sure.. some people like challenge and hard fights, but as much as how many of these people that like hard content, there are equal or more people that like ease content..
not all people think like you and your thought doesn’t represent all.
what you’re saying is just..
I find champ zerging / CoFarm / [insert next farm here] boring, and I dont want to see everybody else gain materials/ gold from them, thus the perfect thing to do is nerfing them!!!
I agree to an extent with your sentiment, if people want to do this kind of content and find it fun that’s fine people should be able to find something enjoyable, but they certainly are not entitled to disproportionate rewards for it. I am not sure why people feel that they should be able to do the most simple task and also receive the best rewards at the same time. It’s quite frankly depressing to think that this is what so many people seem to want.
If they just made it so everything in this game is equally as rewarding this wouldn’t be an issue, because then you can do whatever you find fun and keep up with the inflation.
But no, if you don’t grind this thing every hour you’ll fall behind.
It’s pretty much why I feel they need to get rid of rng to ever give themselves a chance to balance it out. As long as rng is tied to getting profitable materials it will always favor waves of mobs over other options. As I have seen posted elsewhere, it is largely the community that has themselves to blame, whenever Anet tried to curtail mindless repetition in times past with things like DR there was so much outrage over not being able to farm, it’s no wonder Anet has come up with the type of content they have.
If you removed RNG then you would have more drops to the point where gold would truly become worthless. RNG is part of if a mob drops something or nothing at all its in all mmorpgs its even in rpgs.
I should have been more clear, my apologies…..I mean get rid of the drops on mobs…Put the rng rewards in the event completion. Change the way crafting materials are gathered or change the crafting system to accommodate for such a change or both. It’s just artificial gating and nothing more in the current system, I realize all MMORPG’s do this it’s a tried and true method but it isn’t exactly groundbreaking. I think there are very many options that could be explored to change the way rewards are doled out, but this basic farm/grind is just as boring as it could possibly be and is not even remotely engaging. If people accept mediocrity then that is what we will continue to get.
If they just made it so everything in this game is equally as rewarding this wouldn’t be an issue, because then you can do whatever you find fun and keep up with the inflation.
But no, if you don’t grind this thing every hour you’ll fall behind.
It’s pretty much why I feel they need to get rid of rng to ever give themselves a chance to balance it out. As long as rng is tied to getting profitable materials it will always favor waves of mobs over other options. As I have seen posted elsewhere, it is largely the community that has themselves to blame, whenever Anet tried to curtail mindless repetition in times past with things like DR there was so much outrage over not being able to farm, it’s no wonder Anet has come up with the type of content they have.
I definitely dislike this whole zerg farming. It’s a mess, it’s hard to understand what’s going on (as in enemy animations etc), there isn’t much to do other then mindlessly spamming buttoms and there is little room for true interaction with other players since they’re usually too busy trying to tag kill enemies and move on to the next spot.
Personally, I wish the living story team would focus more on small scaled contents. Something designed for like 5-10 players that doesn’t involve just killing hordes of enemies. In my opinion, a single, well designed and creative boss (such as the Mad King) is much more entertaning than several repetitive waves of mobs.
Couldn’t agree more with this, some of us actually want to be able to feel the impact of our actions. I realize we have dungeons and I prefer to run them but this farm stuff is just so disproportionately profitable it literally doesn’t make sense to not join in while it’s going on. I want to feel some connection to what is going on around me, be the hero Tyria needs not just faceless autoattacker #132.
1v1 should be 50% build, 50% skill (But some, such as I, consider proper building to be a form of skill :P). For example, I can build my engineer to hardcounter thieves unless they vastly outskill me, but then a guardian wrecks me unless I vastly outskill them. This type of balance should be maintained: you should have good matchups, bad matchups, and the ability to discern which is which.
Isn’t this rock paper scissor system something ANet said they want to avoid?
How do you balance in a not rock paper scissors context without everything being turned into a homogeneous clone of one another? I don’t think it can really be done without basically making all skills and classes function the same way and just giving them different skins.
The community wouldn’t mind, all they think about is skins.
All jokes asides, it’s okay that builds can counter builds, as long as every class has a counter build to every class. But the rock paper scissor system should not apply in base mechanics for a classm, I.E, one class shouldn’t own another per default.
I agree to that, but perhaps you could be specific and tell me which profession you think owns another by default because of their mechanic?
Warrior beats the crap out of engineers, since engineers got little to no stunbreakers and the stun from mace+shield is enormous.
Guardian can blast down clones from mesmers very fast with staff.
Guardians wins vs ranged thanks to all the anti-ranged.
And so on.
All of the examples you provided are counterplay examples of builds, not specific examples of x class beating y class just because of the class mechanic. Remember the time before warrior M/Sh+GS became a staple to counter condition necros and engi’s? I guess what I am getting at is to say that x class always beats y class it just does not happen, and again you are only looking at it from a sPvP standpoint where you are forced to hold a circle. In WvW if one of those M/Sh+GS warriors tries to take me out on my engi they don’t stand a chance. This is exactly why you can never have true balance without making everything a clone because different scenarios will dictate different builds, sure some builds will have success at performing a particular function or against particular builds of other classes but they will in turn be weaker at performing a different function or against a different build. The problem especially in sPvP is predictability, you know what the objective of the enemy is they want that point which forces you to stay in it but elsewhere if it’s open field combat in WvW all you care about is winning against the player or group of players you are up against with no concern about having to stay in a confined area which results in unpredictability because you never know what function they are designing themselves for, which in turn results in a much greater range of possible outcomes, not because of the class itself but because of build choices.
When I’m FT farming, my build is usually Static Discharge with the rifle turret and goggles, I ether run might duration runes or runes of the eagle and I’ll equip Pistol/Shield with siglls of perception, get 25 stacks, and then equip my usual weapons with might stack sigils. I also use supply drop elite skill and healing turret. I tend to run Pistol/Shield for the reflects, interrupts and Pistol #2 skill for poison. Pistol #3 is great for blindness but the confusion doesn’t do that much since a lot of monsters don’t burn through their skills as quick as human opponents do.
the spec is 10/30/0/10/20 for:
incendiary powder/
vulnerability proc trait, juggernaut and whatever else u like/
—
invigorating speed/
speedy kits and static discharge.
to tell the truth SD’s okay but it’s better when your fighting monsters with 2 or more in close proximity because of the bounces for SD. This build isn’t as good at might stacking as HGH is, but if you use napalm well, the turret blast finishers in napalm’s fire field help you stack might quickly. at low-level monsters I wear full luck gear but for champs I swap out to berserker gear with the types of runes I mentioned earlier.
I also run healing turret and supply drop so I can tank a lot more easily if I’m fighting a champ or a few dumb PvE enemies at once. FT’s not as powerful as Grenade kit or bomb kit, but it’s great for procs with food buffs and tagging multiple enemies like in the lastest campaigns versus Scarlet. To tell the truth, Flamethrower and Elixir Gun complement each other well in tanking so maybe consider that If you’ve got a grudge against a champ, you get downed a lot in dungeons or u got a bunch of vets that won’t take no for an answer. Also, FT’s toolbelt skill is great to use right after a skirmish so when yo go to the next fight close by, it’s halfway done with cooldown. that way your opening attack can cause burning and you get extra base damage out of the flamethrower.
napalm explosion isnt a blast finisher.
Napalm is the #4 ability, Flame Blast is the #2 ability and the one you are thinking of. He was describing using blast finishers inside the fire field created by napalm.
I theorize that any sort of place where you can farm with a NPC-provided boost (such as Pavillion or the Karka Settler event we had a few months ago) has a much lower loot table since the huge boost in MF would have massive influence on the value of rares/exotics.
Not to mention it is entirely possible that useless rares/exotics such as the gauntlet/voting tickets, or the watchwork recipes that sell for copper may be interfering with the loot table.
I should also add another reason why I get so many exotic drops is because my kill rate per hour is high. The more mobs you hit, the more opportunities you get to roll for loot.
When we had anchorage farm last week, I farmed with plenty of guardians. You could tell those who have no clue about farming as well as those who are pros. The very bad guardians don’t know that moving around is essential, and not needing to keep hitting the same mob 10 times. Or that you don’t always have to spam 1, and that a properly traited symbol guardian can attack two places at once.
Remember penitent camp? You could have three waves spawn at the same time. And as a guardian, you are capable of attacking all three waves (+15 enemies) at the same time within 2 seconds. The pro guardians know this, since 1 tag on each mob is enough to get loot. That’s +15 chances at loot.
As opposed to the bad guardian who would only face one wave and spam 1, hitting no more than 5 enemies.
All I can say is, the mechanics of the game are right there infront of you. If you do not wish to take advantage of it, it’s not the game’s fault. It’s yours.
Pro Farmers eh? Doesn’t this make you feel a bit squeamish inside that your only objective in this scenario is to tag as much loot as possible while not really contributing much in terms of effectiveness in actually playing the game?
When you have a zerg with you that is more than capable of completing the event due to sheer numbers, then yes, all I care about is tagging.
Do you actually enjoy this style of play? You wouldn’t rather be rewarded for effort versus mindless zerging ad nauseam? I am not concerned with the argument, that this is the system that is in place and you adapted to what was available. I am curious if this is actually the type of game play you find entertaining?
Actually yeah it’s really fun running around with a whole load of people killing stuff since I’m not a teenager and don’t have 10k hours to devote to learning a video game the way I used to.
OP: I’ve been playing for almost a year and haven’t gotten a precursor either. Anyone who says they’re getting 10 exo’s/week or something is either playing as their job or lying to you.
I am not a teenager nor 10k hours to devote to learning a video game either, but I still don’t find it entertaining in the slightest. I am not trying to take away from someone that does find this type of activity fun, it’s just the reward from it is so disproportionate compared to anything else based on rng that it makes it ridiculous to not do it if you don’t want to be “poor” in the game. Everyone should be able to have “fun” in whichever manner they see fit, but one method of acquiring goods should not be vastly superior over the other in terms of monetary gain.
I theorize that any sort of place where you can farm with a NPC-provided boost (such as Pavillion or the Karka Settler event we had a few months ago) has a much lower loot table since the huge boost in MF would have massive influence on the value of rares/exotics.
Not to mention it is entirely possible that useless rares/exotics such as the gauntlet/voting tickets, or the watchwork recipes that sell for copper may be interfering with the loot table.
I should also add another reason why I get so many exotic drops is because my kill rate per hour is high. The more mobs you hit, the more opportunities you get to roll for loot.
When we had anchorage farm last week, I farmed with plenty of guardians. You could tell those who have no clue about farming as well as those who are pros. The very bad guardians don’t know that moving around is essential, and not needing to keep hitting the same mob 10 times. Or that you don’t always have to spam 1, and that a properly traited symbol guardian can attack two places at once.
Remember penitent camp? You could have three waves spawn at the same time. And as a guardian, you are capable of attacking all three waves (+15 enemies) at the same time within 2 seconds. The pro guardians know this, since 1 tag on each mob is enough to get loot. That’s +15 chances at loot.
As opposed to the bad guardian who would only face one wave and spam 1, hitting no more than 5 enemies.
All I can say is, the mechanics of the game are right there infront of you. If you do not wish to take advantage of it, it’s not the game’s fault. It’s yours.
Pro Farmers eh? Doesn’t this make you feel a bit squeamish inside that your only objective in this scenario is to tag as much loot as possible while not really contributing much in terms of effectiveness in actually playing the game?
When you have a zerg with you that is more than capable of completing the event due to sheer numbers, then yes, all I care about is tagging.
Do you actually enjoy this style of play? You wouldn’t rather be rewarded for effort versus mindless zerging ad nauseam?
I play games for fun. I find farming/zerging fun and relaxing. But in the end I find making lots of gold to be my prime objective.
I don’t want to deal with the stress of memorizing boss fights and having to deal with strategy after a long day at work. Especially when the reward is not worth the effort.
If there was a way to make more gold doing dungeons or doing the gauntlet, I would do that instead.
Thank you for the reply, I am certainly glad that you get enjoyment from these types of activities and that they allow you to reach your goal, after all that is what game experiences should be about as you said “fun” for the individual. The problem however is that different people have different ideas as to what is “fun” so how can a fair system be implemented that rewards players that do not find this activity to their liking? I know I don’t enjoy the zerg farming even in the slightest, but as you pointed out the monetary rewards are no where near sufficient for doing other activities without basically placing myself at a disadvantage in what is going to become a extremely inflated market. RNG as you well know rewards time spent and nothing more and as such needs to be seriously looked into in reducing the amount of it in this game to ensure a healthy future for all gamers. Surely there has to be a way to reward people that enjoy the zerg style of play without making it based simply on chance.
I theorize that any sort of place where you can farm with a NPC-provided boost (such as Pavillion or the Karka Settler event we had a few months ago) has a much lower loot table since the huge boost in MF would have massive influence on the value of rares/exotics.
Not to mention it is entirely possible that useless rares/exotics such as the gauntlet/voting tickets, or the watchwork recipes that sell for copper may be interfering with the loot table.
I should also add another reason why I get so many exotic drops is because my kill rate per hour is high. The more mobs you hit, the more opportunities you get to roll for loot.
When we had anchorage farm last week, I farmed with plenty of guardians. You could tell those who have no clue about farming as well as those who are pros. The very bad guardians don’t know that moving around is essential, and not needing to keep hitting the same mob 10 times. Or that you don’t always have to spam 1, and that a properly traited symbol guardian can attack two places at once.
Remember penitent camp? You could have three waves spawn at the same time. And as a guardian, you are capable of attacking all three waves (+15 enemies) at the same time within 2 seconds. The pro guardians know this, since 1 tag on each mob is enough to get loot. That’s +15 chances at loot.
As opposed to the bad guardian who would only face one wave and spam 1, hitting no more than 5 enemies.
All I can say is, the mechanics of the game are right there infront of you. If you do not wish to take advantage of it, it’s not the game’s fault. It’s yours.
Pro Farmers eh? Doesn’t this make you feel a bit squeamish inside that your only objective in this scenario is to tag as much loot as possible while not really contributing much in terms of effectiveness in actually playing the game?
When you have a zerg with you that is more than capable of completing the event due to sheer numbers, then yes, all I care about is tagging.
Do you actually enjoy this style of play? You wouldn’t rather be rewarded for effort versus mindless zerging ad nauseam? I am not concerned with the argument, that this is the system that is in place and you adapted to what was available. I am curious if this is actually the type of game play you find entertaining?
I theorize that any sort of place where you can farm with a NPC-provided boost (such as Pavillion or the Karka Settler event we had a few months ago) has a much lower loot table since the huge boost in MF would have massive influence on the value of rares/exotics.
Not to mention it is entirely possible that useless rares/exotics such as the gauntlet/voting tickets, or the watchwork recipes that sell for copper may be interfering with the loot table.
I should also add another reason why I get so many exotic drops is because my kill rate per hour is high. The more mobs you hit, the more opportunities you get to roll for loot.
When we had anchorage farm last week, I farmed with plenty of guardians. You could tell those who have no clue about farming as well as those who are pros. The very bad guardians don’t know that moving around is essential, and not needing to keep hitting the same mob 10 times. Or that you don’t always have to spam 1, and that a properly traited symbol guardian can attack two places at once.
Remember penitent camp? You could have three waves spawn at the same time. And as a guardian, you are capable of attacking all three waves (+15 enemies) at the same time within 2 seconds. The pro guardians know this, since 1 tag on each mob is enough to get loot. That’s +15 chances at loot.
As opposed to the bad guardian who would only face one wave and spam 1, hitting no more than 5 enemies.
All I can say is, the mechanics of the game are right there infront of you. If you do not wish to take advantage of it, it’s not the game’s fault. It’s yours.
Pro Farmers eh? Doesn’t this make you feel a bit squeamish inside that your only objective in this scenario is to tag as much loot as possible while not really contributing much in terms of effectiveness in actually playing the game?
Mmmm thank you teacher Vayne. This thread has become a language lesson.Enlighten me moar !!
Hmm… it’s “more”. Pay attention.
Nay, correct not! Innovate! Combine things that no one else has combined! Thus:
Moar – an innovative (and unholy) combination of moa and boar, created one dreary Sunday afternoon in Metrica Province by bored Inquest scientists. The moar is notorious for the unusual sounds it produces, ranging from a high-pitched tweal to a more guttural chiroink. While the wings of the moar are too small to allow for unassisted flight, it has been suggested that, given sufficient time (and the inclination), the Inquest scientists who designed (and patented) the moar will eventually succeed in making pigs fly.
1v1 should be 50% build, 50% skill (But some, such as I, consider proper building to be a form of skill :P). For example, I can build my engineer to hardcounter thieves unless they vastly outskill me, but then a guardian wrecks me unless I vastly outskill them. This type of balance should be maintained: you should have good matchups, bad matchups, and the ability to discern which is which.
Isn’t this rock paper scissor system something ANet said they want to avoid?
How do you balance in a not rock paper scissors context without everything being turned into a homogeneous clone of one another? I don’t think it can really be done without basically making all skills and classes function the same way and just giving them different skins.
The community wouldn’t mind, all they think about is skins.
All jokes asides, it’s okay that builds can counter builds, as long as every class has a counter build to every class. But the rock paper scissor system should not apply in base mechanics for a classm, I.E, one class shouldn’t own another per default.
I agree to that, but perhaps you could be specific and tell me which profession you think owns another by default because of their mechanic?
To be honest, IMO debs should never listen to player feedback when it comes to balance. Why? Because there is just too much subjectivity.
You got people who just want their class to be the best, you got people who just can’t play against a certain style and thus calls said style OP, you got people who are just emotionally affected a bit too much after a loss to a certain class and thus begins a crusade to nerf that class to the ground, and the list just goes on and on.
In terms of class balancing, this is going to be a bit of a wild one but… what if we just got rid of classes altogether? Let everyone choose whatever skills to use for each weapon, whatever trait lines they want, and use a system to determine what armour you get to wear based on the above?
I actually like this idea to an extent, it’s a similar system to one that is used in champs online for the subscribers (non subscribers are stuck in choosing a archetype). The only issue with it then becomes you have to balance each skill and possible skill combination against the other. The end result was there were certain build types that were just vastly superior to others, sure some people intentionally took the build options that were not as strong to show off their skill, but the actual “balance” in that pvp was pretty friggin horrible but it made for some fun times trying to figure out all the different options available to you. At this point in GW2 though I would not expect to ever see anything remotely like this since it would be a complete redesign of the systems they have in place.
1v1 should be 50% build, 50% skill (But some, such as I, consider proper building to be a form of skill :P). For example, I can build my engineer to hardcounter thieves unless they vastly outskill me, but then a guardian wrecks me unless I vastly outskill them. This type of balance should be maintained: you should have good matchups, bad matchups, and the ability to discern which is which.
Isn’t this rock paper scissor system something ANet said they want to avoid?
How do you balance in a not rock paper scissors context without everything being turned into a homogeneous clone of one another? I don’t think it can really be done without basically making all skills and classes function the same way and just giving them different skins.
1v1 balance will not be achieved, it does not exist. You can all cry “imbalanced” a million times when you lose but a lot of times it’s due to the other person getting the jump on you, knowing the fight more than you(this was a HUGE part of GW1), having a well-equipped build or they were just better overall than you. Should Anet work on major imbalances? Yes of course. But there are other things that need work in pvp too like cast bars or distinct animations.
As for team fight pvp, what is balance? There are only 5 players on a team and 8 classes so what is this mythical “balance”? Both teams using the same composition?…
^So much this….
It’s also the reason I dislike allowing the community to be involved so closely with perceived “balance”. I am sure some of the top tPvP’ers are great guys or gals, but I find it hard to believe that they can be as impartial as they often claim. They really do need to actually look at “balance” in the three game modes separately, those being sPvP, PvE, and WvW. The top tPvP’ers probably care little for the other game modes and so I doubt highly that they ever consider changes that should be made from those perspectives. Ultimately it falls upon Anet to decide how they are going to implement their “balance” for classes but using people that probably only care for one portion of the game and are also inclined to believe that is the only portion of the game that matters is just terrible from a design standpoint on the part of the developers when the changes affect all game modes and types.
You will never convince ANet or anyone else that your aren’t just unlucky.
I expect that sometime in the distant future ANet will uncover a bug with the loot table that causes some people to get multiple precursors and other people to get nothing.
Haven’t they already acknowledged that this was happening at one point and they supposedly fixed it?
Can we please get back on topic. I already asked before. If not for me, do it for the rest of the people here. If you really want to discuss the problems we have with each other, feel free to pm me. Then we can keep it out of here.
I would’ve prefered if you’d reacted to the part where I was trying to bring it back on topic, so let’s try again pls.
Just gonna throw this out there, but you intentionally goad him into responding to you. If you wanted to keep those problems out of or derailing a thread you can simply ignore his post and make your own in regards to whatever the OP topic is. You want to argue semantics, you want to try and push or catch him on any little thing you can, seems to me time would be better spent just accepting that people have different views of things and move on.
You should pm instead of posting here.You’re making the thread going off topic again.
That’s ok I am allowed to because of how awesome I am! /end sarcasm
Of course you are right I should have, thank you for bringing it to my attention.
@Seras:
Honestly half the problems that the FT and to a lesser extent GK has in WvW zerging would disappear overnight, if Retaliation actually reflected an absolute %damage taken as it states on the tooltip instead of providing a flat damage tick that scales off the Boon Holder’s Power and procs on hit.
I have no idea why Retaliation was ever implemented in this capacity because it offers no deterrence against spike damage, and it invalidates the use of several multi-hit skills for no apparent reason, across all classes.
Only reason I can think is that protection, block, blind, and dodge already negate spike damage. I think retal is implemented precisely the way it is to give a deterrent to non spike damage specifically. The problem becomes compounded for engineers because our grenade auto can hit 15 people and if every one of them have retal yeah it’s ugly. Before the current “strategy” of blobbing up became so popular it wasn’t nearly the issue it is now for engi’s. Even if it goes to a flat % damage returned it will still affect engineer’s more than any other class simply based on the number of targets we can hit. So I am not sure how they could “fix” retal in a fair manner, because it will always be a bigger problem for engi’s using ft or gk than any other class (well except maybe a mesmer who puts a reflect down on a group of ranged players with retal). We have other options available to us, such as bk but without easy reliable decent length stability it really is not ideal either. Just not sure what the best course of action would be.
’ I’m definitely a fan of reworking our skills so we’re not so dependent on Kits, of course.
Other than that? I just hope they give us more weapons soon, and give us more unique, useful Elite Skills.
I’m afraid you have the wrong idea of what the engineer was designed for. Kits are our bread and butter, and to not use them would be against the grain of the class. I whole-heart-idly disagree with making the base weapons superior to kits or equal to.
I agree with the elite skills comment.. Our elite skills, especially with the current state of our alive-for-one-second turrets, mortar which is just plain horrible, and the random elixir x.
Just going to point out that it is the toolbelt skills that are actually the engineer’s class mechanic. Kits are the most effective option in many cases, but that certainly shouldn’t mean that the other options are less effective. Choosing kits should be about a playstyle choice, not being forced into using them in order to keep up. Personally I am a fan of having the high apm that comes along with playing a kit engi, but I can see why others would not be. Doesn’t mean I would not like to still be able to use the flavor of the zany gadgets or the turrets, and still be effective, in order to do that gadgets and turrets and mainhand weapons need to be looked at.
the way I see it nades are like all our other kits. More rewarding the closer the target gets to you. That being said they aren’t going to add an auto attack to the kit on land. ATM if you are proficient with it or feel like you are than the kit is so stupid powerful there is no reason to worry about not having an auto attack,
The other issue is that it would be very hard to implement without a homing feature. As of this moment Anet has actually been removing homing features from auto attacks on ranged weapon sets.
I dunno, why couldn’t they just turn it into a on/off state during combat with other skills still of course taking priority over the auto when used? The grenades would still go where the cursor goes you just wouldn’t have to manually keep hitting 1 for every attack with the auto.
First lets put this in context. It would only work in PvE where the mob sits still. In PvP it would be easy to counter as the cast animation and bar and pretty easy to time and avoid (they already are).
That being said it sounds like more a of a hassle than anything else. You would have set few seconds to move your cursor (depending on distance to target) to the right spot before you threw automatically. This would lead to trying to rush the cursor to a target location without being able to control your throw.
Overall it would be a reduction in functionality for the sake of QoL of the fingers. And honestly that a legit gripe to have. The thing is something like this would make nades clunky. The option is fine but it is definitely one of those things that would kill a kit anywhere but PvE stand still and spam. I would imagine you could run macro to do the same thing but that would be against the terms of use so I will keep my mouth shut.
They might do this but I doubt it.
Well obviously in a 1v1 type of scenario it becomes less effective but you rarely have a need to spam the auto in that situation anyway, hmm…. And as far as a programmable keyboard or mouse goes, I am not sure Anet would take issue to that to be honest. I have seen them state multiple times that 1 keypress= 1 action, I took that to mean they don’t want you binding multiple abilities to a single macro key and have them executed as part of a chain. Either way not really worth it I suppose except as you said in pve since retal is pretty much destroying the only other time it could be useful (against zergs at distance).
As for Warriors being best in dungeon, it is now well known and accepted that Axe beats out GS for sustained DPS, even if the numbers aren’t as impressive. But DPS isn’t the reason why Warriors are still highly sought after in Dungeons – it’s that they bring strong DPS with good survivability (from base HP and toughness) with great party DPS support.
On My Mark and For Great Justice grant party wide Might and Fury and gives Vulnerability to foes. You can bet that if those Shouts were ever nerfed, Warrior will fall off the face of the earth in Dungeons to be replaced by LH ele, or whichever class offers the “next best” party wide DPS amplification and big damage.
AOE Boons are so strong in fact that the only class that pukes them every second – Guardians – are 100% sought after in both PvP and PvE. Does this mean that Boons are balanced, or that Guardians are OP? Who knows.
All I know is that if AOE Boons from class utilities were nerfed and instead were shifted 100% to Combo Fields and Finishers, it would be Engineer that would become the next Apex class. Who knows? Such a meta might even encourage team co-ordination and team play.
That was my point about warrior being easier to play, I should have said it’s easier to fit into a pug scenario, but rarely is it really warranted to take more than one if you have a organized group. Banner of discipline is pretty much irreplaceable, but it doesn’t stack and there are other alternatives to getting might and fury for the group besides using fgj. I wasn’t saying that you would use a engineer as a replacement for a warrior, but instead of a second warrior absolutely. We typically run 1 guard, 1 war, 1 ranger (spotter/frost spirit stacks with banner), 1 engi (that’s me!) and then rotate the last spot depending on if we need more reflects we take a mesmer otherwise it’s usually a ele and have literally zero issues with maintaining the 25 might 25 vuln and fury for the group. Will we set an absolute speedclear record? Probably not but are our runs fast safe and easy, yep you bet. What I was getting at was that most people really don’t play engineer to it’s full potential and are quick to dismiss it as not being a valid dps class without realizing that it can do as much damage per second as any other class it’s just gone about in a different manner. Take acid bomb for example with 25 might and vuln on the target it will hit around 25k over the 5 seconds it’s out for, not overly impressive until you realize that you can be doing other damage simultaneously while that is ticking, the engineer layers it’s damage much more than many other classes do and the rotations to keep up a gk,bk,eg setup are admittedly more complex and require a much higher apm to get good results.
engie meets ele in open field > fight goes bad for ele > ele rides the lightning to disengage > engie instantly closes the gap while laughing maniacally and puts a burny boot in there face.
engie being chased by angry mob > engie runs to cliff ledge > engie rocket boots off cliff to other side > engie turns around and magnets one of the baddies off the cliff for a cheap kill > /laugh
enough said :/
I suspect sooner or later they will remove the ability to “fly” with rb, rtl used to function the same way but it doesn’t anymore. Then again I don’t know if there are enough engies to get this noticed and put on the radar as being an issue or not. Personally I don’t think rtl should have been changed this way, and I certainly don’t want rb to go this route, but who knows what anet thinks about when they get to swinging their nerfhammer.
It isn’t flying. It’s like a leap. Warriors and guardians can leap from one cliff ledge to another as well. I don’t know if Ride the Lightning was ever intended to be a leap or not.
I will just leave this here “Fly forward, damaging foes with your rocket exhaust.”
I’m afraid a few, specific instances of “goofiness” do not, your point, make.
I can summon just as many “serious” things about GW2. Look at the personal story. People being murdered, loss of life everywhere, struggles to survive. It was not pokemon bubble bounce bumblekittenery.
Mufasa died in The Lion King. Scar nearly starved the entire Savannah after taking over. Zazu was imprisoned and threatened to be eaten. They had a leopard eat a baby in Tarzan. That doesn’t make either the diary of Anne Frank.
Indeed. That kind of stuff has nothing to do with something being “serious” or not. Take for example Starship Troopers xD
Meh, I don’t agree with warrior being “best” pve damage wise, easiest yes but best is debatable. Unfortunately, players have a bias against certain classes, hell it wasn’t until recently that some of the “elite” dungeon groups would even consider bringing a ranger along. The problem is people see the damage they get from 100b and greatly overestimate how much actual dps it breaks down to. This results in them making proclamations that warrior is “best”. Here is the deal, play what you like to play if it happens to be engie just be prepared to work harder to get similar results, if you are ok with that then welcome aboard. If you want faceroll, then go play the warrior or guardian, but capability wise engi is every bit as capable in putting out fantastic damage compared to any other class in the game, well maybe except a fgs ele that has a mob pushed into a wall, but nothing compares to that and I mean nothing lol.
Heya. Since Engineers arent… so great at the moment, I’ve relegated mine to farming duty now. Is there any specific farming spec that is a cut above the rest? My current spec is flamethrower based with some restorative capabilities from what I recall.
Lol, in what area is engineer not so great at the moment? Literally the only area of the game that engi is struggling is in GvG because of retal and lack of stability which makes them susceptible to the guardian/warrior pain train. They are rocking stuff in sPvP, small group and solo roam in WvW, and as far as pve goes people are just kittens and still think “Warrior is top damage because 100b” and they can’t be bothered to figure out how dps is actually calculated.
Their should be challenging stuff that is the most rewarding, there can still be easy casual farm that can be like 80% as good. But risk needs to be rewarded.
Ah, but rewarded how? Better gear? New skills? That would make the best players even better, and widen the gap between what they want and what most other players can handle.
Larger amounts of the normal rewards? That just means that the best players will run out of things to strive for all the sooner.
Unique skins and cosmetics? Some of those casual players are VERY into how their characters look, and finding out that they can’t get the items they need to complete their character’s look can drive them away. Given that these are the same people that spend money in the gemstore for cosmetics, ANet doesn’t want to do that.
About the only thing I can think of that would be a good reward is a title that pretty much says “I beat this”. In CoH, I saw quite a few people take on difficult tasks to earn the "Master of … " titles. Would that be enough reward for the people playing here?
I look at choices such as having order gear, and tiered cultural armor sets as a perfect opportunity to give compelling game choices but instead they are simply just vendor items that only show how well you are able to farm gold/karma. How much better would it have been if they included some story based content or something similar to go along with acquiring these sets. I realize it takes more developer resources in order to accomplish but it would add so much more “value” to the items in my opinion if they had a story attached to getting them.
As for the argument that “casual” players might feel alienated because they can not get a certain look that is gated behind a skill threshold, this makes the assumption that “casual” players are not skilled. I am a “casual” player because of the amount of time I can spend playing not because of my skill level and as it stands now I am alienated because I don’t have the time to farm. I would appreciate having a chance to tackle something that may be difficult and reward me with a nice looking skin choice even if I fail 100 times but I can be guaranteed a reward if I do succeed. I understand from a business stand point that they want to generate revenue from the widest array of people as possible, but catering to people that simply can’t see that not everyone should have everything is terrible from a design standpoint. The same hypothetical “casual” player that complains about not having a cosmetic option because the content is too difficult is likely to also complain that they can’t have the title that you suggested as well.
