Guild Wars 2

frans.8092:

Shockwave.1230:

… disguise … try to spin it … incentive programs … try to spin it …

I don’t feel like replying to propaganda style arguments on a game forum while discussing game mechanics.

If ANet thinks critical damage is too strong in it’s current implementation, just nerf the numbers. It will save them dev time so they can work on something else.

Most changes to gear stats will require more time testing their effect on balance then implementing them.

You’d be doing this regression testing regardless of the change you make. Making the simpler change requires less planning, less coding, and less test prep.

frans.8092:

Just a what if….

What if they changed the mechanics of critical hits to increase power on a critical hit by a value determined by critical damage rather then multiply it in the damage calculation. That way they could introduce a form of diminishing returns, the more power there is in your build the smaller the gain of adding even more becomes. Similarly, the critical hit mechanism would become interesting for low-power builds. It could even conceivable use a temporary might, aiding in power and condition damage and/or be limited by the cap on might stacks (in group settings might is more likely at max stacks already).

There’s no reason to disguise a nerf except to try to spin it to people that it’s actually not a nerf. Changing how Critical Damage functions as part of the damage formula and making it deal less damage than it currently does is the same end result as straight nerfing the percentage of Critical Damage provided by gear.

That’s like when companies change there incentive programs so they have to pay less out, but try to spin it to employees that its better by highlighting only the positives of the new system and ignoring the negatives.

If ANet thinks critical damage is too strong in it’s current implementation, just nerf the numbers. It will save them dev time so they can work on something else.

What’s the change? Granted I guess we can wait 36 hours, but now I’m curious

Elemental Surge + Arcane Power cause Elemental Surge’s effect to trigger for your currently active attunement, not the attunement it was activated in (unless the attunement you activated it in is still your currently active attunement).

This combo moves you around 1500 units of game distance. It’s nearly the same distance as the old rtl

Assuming you’re using a mesmer?

For those outside of the US legal system I have no clue how things work.

In general within the US this is how things work:

If support (of any service) won’t give you a clear “No, you can’t do that” when you ask in good faith, then you can until they clearly say otherwise. Innocent until proven guilty, and you have evidence that they couldn’t tell you something was wrong, since it’s in writing. If something does happen to your service, you have evidence you attempted to check if something was or was not allowed and you’ll be fine as long as you present the facts and the evidence and didn’t do something you weren’t explicitly told you couldn’t.

This is true throughout the United States legal system (unless you’re in the Military or deemed a terrorist). Game EULAs usually say service providers can do whatever they want, so everything else in the EULA actually has little to no meaning, it just shows the tendency a company will follow more than anything.

Even if a company behaves within the parameters of it’s EULA, but somehow violates current precedent in law (like innocent until proven guilty), the service recipient will win (again this is regardless of the agreement type or service).

These are things to keep in mind for every kind of user agreement in the US, not specifically just video games.

Interceptor.2653:

Travlane.5948:

especially when my claim is pretty well known.

Argumentum ad populum. Epic.

This place would be a lot more boring if it weren’t for the fallacies, the playground insults, and the challenges to duels. Only on the Internet.

Is there a fallacy for someone claiming that because something falls under the potential realm of fallacy that the person claiming fallacy in fact falls under a fallacy themselves?

Added
If not it should be called the fallacy of fallacies

As others have pointed out Black Powder is very easy to counter. Against any player that has experience with playing against it only 1 blind should hit, and that’s the projectile blind. The AoE is so small that you can melee players while standing outside of it.

Wile.5024:

Shockwave.1230:

1. Blind would completely remove the offensive potential of stealth. Defensive potential would be removed if attacks were attempted.
2. Aegis would completely remove the offensive potential of stealth. Defensive potential would be removed if attacks were attempted

How does a suggested minimum 0.5s reduction completely remove offensive potential? Aegis and blinds arent spammable….

And yes 3s blocking/invul skills do remove the offensive potential… During that time you just do not attack like all the other classes

And yes, none of the other classes arent punished for aa reveal but the difference is up to 8k of damage…. Other classes mostly use #2 to #5 which they are punished for

It often takes a second or two to get into position to land side/back strikes.
Activation time and after cast comes into play.
Aegis is used by players as an indicator to reposition themselves via dodge/skills.
Being blind and entering stealth automatically means you’re stealth duration is already reduced offensively.

The most obvious example of this being a straight nerf to a Thief is in a Thief vs DPS Guardian scenario.

The guardian has a bunch of Aegis/Blinds. You can expect to deal with anywhere from 1-3 blinds/blocks in this situtation. With a 0.5-1 second impact to stealth duration you’re talking about 0.5-3 seconds of stealth reduciton with no opportunity to use your offensive potential, meaning if you enter stealth vs a DPS guardian you may as well just get away from him because you’ll just be taking damage without the opportunity to deal it.

Any profession can present this problem to thieves via evades, blinds, blocks, etc. The suggestion will cripple the offensive capacity of stealth so much that people won’t see it worth the risk of using it offensively.

I still have an open question as to how the Thief would be equally compensated for a significant straight nerf like this.

If the OP’s suggestion was implemented there would be a negative impact on the viability of stealth as people have suggested.

1. Blind would completely remove the offensive potential of stealth. Defensive potential would be removed if attacks were attempted.
2. Aegis would completely remove the offensive potential of stealth. Defensive potential would be removed if attacks were attempted.
3. Evades would remove the offensive potenial of stealth if evaded. Defensive potential would be removed if attacks were attempted.

Duration scaling for Offensive Stealth Potential negation of the below items is as follows:

• 3 second stealth | 1, 2, 3 second durations 33%, 67%, 100% offensive stealth immunity
• 4 second stealth | 1, 2, 3, 4 second durations 25%, 50%, 75%, 100% offensive stealth immunity

The above duration scaling is already applicable to the follow (current defensive stealth counters):

• Invulnerability (i.e. Obsidian Flesh)
• Stealth (i.e. The Prestige)
• Duration Blocks (i.e. Shield Stance)
• Duration Evade (i.e. Blurred Frenzy)
• Position Changing (i.e. Blink, dodge)

The above are some of the defensive counters to stealth that currently exist, offensive counters are AoE. The defensive counters currently remove most of the offensive potential of stealth, they would additionally remove the defensive potential that comes with being unseen if attacks were attempted.

Given everything above, the question is how would you compensate the Theif and to a much lesser extent the Mesmer for these changes to stealth offensively and defensively. Because it’s a significant straight nerf.

ahuba.6430:

Shockwave.1230:

P Fun Daddy.1208:

It’s not logic, it’s balance. Where’s the logic in someone getting sliced by a great sword or hit by a meteor and surviving?

There’s a precedent for it in numerous games.

and is there logic in those games? video games follow logic only to a minimum.
but if it bothers you that much, I’m sure anet can change the name of the skill group from “shout” to “hand clap” and blind makes sense because the warrior misses clapping his hands. there you go, problem solved.
while we’re at it, what logic is there in berserker stance? how can it make anyone immune to bleed? does it turn the warrior into rock? to burning? does berserker stance apply like a water layer to the warrior? Where’s the logic?

This is such a weird argument.

There’s a lack of precedent for shouting being impacting by blindness in addition to how out there it is that the sense of sight would impact vocal-cords.

The skill’s unblockable already. It makes way more sense to make “Fear Me!” blockable and immune to blind than being unblockable and impacted by blind. The fact that it’s an unblockable skill makes me feel like the blind impact is even more of an oversight. At least with block it makes sense that someone would block their ears. The skill is a shout, so that at least somewhat makes sense.

gesho.9468:

of course blind should miss shout. just because its called shout, its not exempt from general game mechanics. i can bring then bunch of “irl” reasons for half of engi’s spells to be blind immune.

game mechanics should not be ruined by game immersion and rp.

It hardly seems like a balance thing, more like an oversight. It’s super easy to auto attack and remove blind and use an instant cast skill. I personally am rarely if ever affected by this when I play my warrior, because it’s so simple to counter. Because of the infrequency of combat impact AND the non-sensical nature of an eye condition affecting vocal-cords, it’s 100% an oversight in my mind.

P Fun Daddy.1208:

It’s not logic, it’s balance. Where’s the logic in someone getting sliced by a great sword or hit by a meteor and surviving?

There’s a precedent for it in numerous games.

Where is the logic in Blindness causing a Shout to be ineffective?

“I can’t see!”
“I can clearly shout that I can’t see!”
“When I shout ‘Fear Me!’, becuase I’m blind it’s no longer freightening?”

If a blind guy came at me yelling “Fear Me!” with weapons and armor, I’d be scared even if he couldn’t see.

As a thief the easiest way I’ve found to deal with Pet builds is to cancel target aim towards the mob of red press tab and it will auto target the player.

Next is DPS the player down. Use survivability in between as necessary.

I would imagine AoE would be pretty solid too. Seems like a DPS guardian with a Greatsword/Sword+Focus would have it especially easy with all the blocks and AoE blinds available.

Numerous warrior setups should be able to take out a pet build. AoE or Player spike tactics would viable for warriors.

I’m not sure what I’d do with other classes, but I’m sure someone could give other ideas.

ColinJohanson.2394:

Thanks folks lots of really great ideas, concepts and discussion here!

I think the biggest thing I was trying to get at with my question is: what should the journey towards an alternative system of horizontal progression really be like?

Folks talked a lot about different ways you could say acquire skills other than the current system, but that’s really more a change to an existing skill acquisition system, as opposed to the journey of unlocking something like an advanced profession (or masteries) as some of you discussed.

Say for example, we decided to allow your profession to gain an additional mastery as Nike and Chuggs in particular discussed above. I think we have a lot of fun ideas in here for the journey unlock specific aspects of that mastery, but what if you first had to unlock the core “mastery” track, which then allowed you collect the smaller components? What kind of experience do you think would be compelling here as an over-all journey?

Some of the ideas I’ve really enjoyed so far from this thread include ->

• Additional story lines with your orders that allow you complete or unlock new masteries/abilities.

• Adding new content to the existing maps (or re-using existing moments) that serves the purpose of being a bit like skill challenges, content on demand that allows you to overcome challenges to allow you unlock various abilities/masteries.

A lot of the ideas boiled down into variations of one of these two options, and really both have a lot of cool concepts and ideas. Can folks think of anything else that’s a bit more outside the box for something bigger?

Quick note I’d prefer instead of sub-professions, secondary professions as was done with Gw1. I wouldn’t be against sub-professions, it’d be easier to implement honestly, but I preferred the freedom of the Gw1 primary/secondary professions system, because you could make whatever sub-profession you wanted and then some.

As for something more outside the box to Journey through it seems like you’re asking for different systems for people to follow, while I think what we’re asking for is more content within the systems we have. So being outside the box within the boxes we have might be a better idea, since it would hopefully require way less development time and allow for content to be developed more quickly. I have a feeling ANet has barely scratched the surface with what they can do via living story, dymanic events, personal story telling, etc. Of course it doesn’t hurt to have some people working on a big new creative ground breaking feature in parallel.

If there’s anything thing I would say to keep in mind, it’d be to remember to cater towards the solo player too with everything y’all work on, while also thinking of ways to continue promoting collaboration between players and making it easier for players to collaborate.

Finally to the outside of the box stuff. You could try improving upon the idea of Favor of the Gods from Guild Wars 1. Achievements already give individual rewards, but why not give players further incentive to get achievements by giving global benefits. Dailies and Monthlies would obviously have to be excluded, however future living story achievements could count. After the player base gets like 10 million achievement points or whatever the number you could release a new map or something where players could start collecting some of this new horizontal progression stuff. If the playerbase reaches the first tier you could set up a second tier for another really big map release or something with more horizontal progression stuff and story and content. It might be seen as such a big draw the playerbase would grow and the players and devs would have to compete with each other and race to the finish, so the devs would need to have at least 2 maps ready at any given time then set the next tier accordingly so things progress at an achievable pace. The maps could potentially have feels similar to UW, FoW, Urgoz, The Deep, or DoA.

ColinJohanson.2394:

cesmode.4257:

ColinJohanson.2394:

A lot of the ideas boiled down into variations of one of these two options, and really both have a lot of cool concepts and ideas. Can folks think of anything else that’s a bit more outside the box for something bigger?

I had suggested several times about Global Dominance system. Similar to WvW…we as players and as a server, complete events across the entire map of Tyria and receive passive bonuses based on the % of the map that we control as players. So if we leave entire zones(say the lesser traveled zones) to be completely occupied by centaurs, for example, we won’t be receiving maximum benefits. And you can use most of the existing dynamic events to accomplish this. There are many DEs that take over way points and camps that we as players can complete and push enemy NPCs back…thus acquiring a larger portion of the world.

This encourages players to play in more than one zone, get sthem out in the world, etc.

On top of this, put in a reward system for completing unique(different) dynamic events in a month. I.E. Complete 90 unique dynamic events in January and receive a Cesmode mini(just kidding). But you get the picture.

Is that big enough and outside the box?

The global dominance is a really interesting concept, and something we played with a bit back in Gw1 with the luxons/kurzicks but never really pushed far enough to make into a compelling system. Some questions and challenges that immediately come to mind with this would include: How would players playing in an overflow map make a difference, or feel like their time is being well spent? How would this work if we pursued underflow servers? How would this work for worlds that have relatively medium/low populations, or for players who play at off hours (say Australians). ? How would new players understand, and be motivated by this system, and should they be? And most importantly: How would this result in unlocking an advanced profession or advanced horizontal progression for your character? [I get how a system like this could be used for more world bonus specific rewards which is really cool, but I don’t fully see the character specific journey which was my original question]

The event idea is an interesting one, but it doesn’t feel like a “grand journey” so to speak. Do you feel like if we asked you to do 90 different events in a month, and that allowed your ranger to say become a Druid, you’d feel like that was a cool system?

You couldn’t really do global dominance based upon the main server map control. If you did, it based upon server it wouldn’t be global. There’s some high level problems with servers that should be addressed to really pull something like this off.

The main thing is that servers really only have meaning for WvW since players are free to travel between servers. This might be what you want to design things around in the future. Honestly there’s a whole CDI that we could do on servers. Ideally for servers I think you ask players if they want to be in an RP server or not, ask players if they want to be in a low/medium/high population server and just have 6 versions of “main” maps then do overflows for those 6 types. This should help reduce if not eliminate the need for underflow server logic. Just use the old server names as WvW teams, because that’s effectively what they are already.

Back to global dominance. Regardless of how you do servers, leave them the same/change them. If there are different instances of each map (assuming this will continue to be true), you can’t do map control from a territory perspective, because it won’t be the same for each map. You can’t include the overflow servers in the calcuation, because they come and go. You can’t base it strictly upon the perminent instances of maps, because overflows exist. So map control by territory is not feasible. An alternative would be to utilize a calculation involving all active global dominance events between all servers (perminent, overflow, underflow, regardless of name, etc.) we’re talking global, or at least server regional (NA/EU/etc.). A lot of effort would have to be put into balancing and scaling these global dominance events per server, and you’d have to figure out how you want to score it. But I think at the highest level it all has to be based upon summing events ACTIVELY being consummed by players per server region, per server name, per each overflow and perminent server.

Conski Deshan.2057:

Shockwave.1230:

ColinJohanson.2394:

- Collect skins: Purchase them for currencies (which becomes play the fastest way to earn currency X), get them as rare drops (play fastest way to kill mob/content type X), or purchase them off the trading post. (Play the fastest way to earn gold)

This is good in concept. The implementation could be modified slightly. Implementing a universal token currency that is rewarded in combination with current dungeon tokens would be a nice addition. Dungeons could reward a smaller amount of their current tokens, but also reward some universal tokens that could be exchanged for specific dungeon tokens. Two way currency exchange with diminishing returns could be implemented as well, but I think it’d be better to stick with a one-way turn in of universal for specific to continue the promotion of people playing each dungeon.

You honestly see nothing wrong with a person running Cof but unable to complete Arah getting the Arah armor?
What is the incentive for running Arah specifically then? Cos slightly fast gain of an item doesn’t cut it.

Maybe there is somewhat of an issue with people never completing Arah to get arah armor, you can do it in PvP though. Maybe an additional implementation could be to restrict exchange from a universal token to a specific dungeon token until each path has been done, or just the story mode completed, or something in between depending upon what the devs want to do.

Remember Conski, the goal of the CDI is to collaborate constructively not exaserbate destructively. Offering solutions and ideas is a better approach than simply identifying a problem may arise.

ColinJohanson.2394:

VOLKON.1290:

You could even throw out in the PvE world random Champions that enter the world from one side, simply walk across and out the other if they’re not defeated. It would be up to the players to recognize, band together and defeat this champion to get an unlock that way. Don’t announce it, just have it happen.

So an open question: If you don’t announce it, how do players who want to progress their character down these new paths of exciting character progression know what to do it, or how to progress? We’ve seen if the path of progression isn’t relatively clear, most our every-day casual players won’t bother doing it, which isn’t a system that buys us much game play over-all.

And if the champion isn’t available, how do we message to players that the system of progression to advance their character isn’t available at this time? I think you can get away with no real messaging around something like a rare skin, but if it’s a system that expands your characters profession diversity it needs much clearer communication.

These are the kind of questions I ask the designers coming up with the systems we’ll use in the future, so it’s a fun opportunity for you guys as well

If you don’t announce players obviously don’t know unless they come across chatter via player communication mediums where it has been discovered. Some content could be like that, probably don’t want very much to be like that though. Having enough of it to get people interested in exploring the world in the hopes of finding this kind of content may help players discover things they like they wouldn’t have otherwise found. So it can have some value.

Leaving hints that there is more to something around an area is a way to annouce to players that something may not be available currently. Anyone who’s played Pokemon knows the egg system. There are different messages building upon excitement as the egg gets closer and closer to hatching. That kind of concept could be implemented and taken further, such as leaving hints of what needs to be done to advance the progress (something other than a progress bar for sure).

Example:
Message: Odd flowers and Strange hoofprints are abound as though something was frightened away.

(There’s an underworld portal nearby)
(The creature enjoys eating these flowers).
The players destroy the portal and collect a bouquet of these flowers and place it in that area. It’s apprantly a timid creature in our situation as it was scared, so you’ll have to hide somewhere briefly and wait for it’s appearance. The risk in this situation is a player could afk and prevent the event or troll, but I think I’ve communicated the jist of it.

ColinJohanson.2394:

Which current system do you think works great specifically? In theory, we have a lot of systems already

For me, I think some our current systems of horizontal progression and their earn systems are:

ColinJohanson.2394:

- Collect skins: Purchase them for currencies (which becomes play the fastest way to earn currency X), get them as rare drops (play fastest way to kill mob/content type X), or purchase them off the trading post. (Play the fastest way to earn gold)

This is good in concept. The implementation could be modified slightly. Implementing a universal token currency that is rewarded in combination with current dungeon tokens would be a nice addition. Dungeons could reward a smaller amount of their current tokens, but also reward some universal tokens that could be exchanged for specific dungeon tokens. Two way currency exchange with diminishing returns could be implemented as well, but I think it’d be better to stick with a one-way turn in of universal for specific to continue the promotion of people playing each dungeon.

ColinJohanson.2394:

- Skills: Collect skill points. (Which becomes play the fastest way to earn XP, or skill points.)

I think y’all know that this one is a fairly uninteresting stale system currently. It actually works nicely for brand new players. However, after maxing your character’s level it quickly loses its lustyr, because skill points no longer become tied to acquiring skills. This is mostly due to the implementation of skill points as a currency sink in being tied to crafting and other items, so people farm champions to get skill points quickly. This system as is could be made more relevant through other systems, but that seems unnecessary to tie it in with something like skill hunting as the skill hunts should provide the reward on their own through their own pacing and should require further pacing to slow players down. There’s really not much reason to touch the skill point system unless you want to make it more relevant for some reason.

ColinJohanson.2394:

- Achievement Horizontal Rewards: These are things like achievement point skin unlocks, titles, etc. This is more just sort of play everything that gives achievement points, since very little of it is repeatable.

This works very well for frequent players as most of the achievement points come from dailies. It doesn’t work so well for binge players (think Netflix). I doubt the goal is to cater as much towards infrequent players, but it would be nice if bingers had a way to catch up on daily achievement points. The weekly concept has been put forward, but I sense that hasn’t been implemented due to fear that replacing dailies with weeklies would impact player time/frequency in game. So maybe introducing weekly in addition to monthly/daily as a way to bridge the disparity between these types of players could be implemented.

ColinJohanson.2394:

- Legendary: This one doesn’t really have a totally clear path to acquisition other than earn crazy amounts of gold, which goes back to play the fastest way to earn gold. (note legendary is only horizontal if you already have ascended)

Having a clearer path to legendaries would be nice. I’m guessing y’all have ideas for how you want to do this. The most obvious way to avoid the ‘crazy amounts of gold’ issue is to provide path’s towards obtaining legendaries that can’t be bought directly via gold acquired items/currencies. To make these clearer to obtain, giving players a kind of special item that provides a material count and progress indicators for those items would be helpful.

ColinJohanson.2394:

- PvP Skin Locker & PvP Ranks: Play PvP. (This is basically just play PvP since the latest release.)

Love it. Just would like to see this become a gamewide skin locker. Unlock a skin in it and apply it to any equiped item. I’m guessing you’re thinking infinite use isn’t a good idea, so if it’s not infinite use give players a tool tip of what characters items in use are equipped to at the very least, and it’d be great if bank items that are soulbound would tell you who their soulbound too.

ColinJohanson.2394:

The downside is because almost everything can earn you most of the same rewards, this becomes a matter of choosing to do the things you enjoy the most, but getting rewarded slower because of it.

The other downside unmentioned is that a lot of the story content isn’t repeatable, so if you are racing to get rewards so you can earn big money on the marketplace you miss out on story elements. This is really disheartening because lore has been one of the strongest areas of the Guild Wars universe, and people are missing out on it without the option to go back and experience it.

ColinJohanson.2394:

Reading through a lot of the comments on various class diversification (or just stronger trait/skill diversification) concepts, one of the things that seems to be missing is a discussion on how you’d actually earn/unlock these additional abilities to make it a progression system.

One of the goals of progression, in this case horizontal, is to create an extended sense of game play and thus = reward for playing it.

For example, we’ve added more skills to the game recently, but those simply unlock with skill points, which basically means -> play any part of the game that gives exp, or kill champs to get skill point books. That’s ok as systems of unlocking horizontal progression go for the extended class diversification, but game play wise it generally means find the easiest place to get XP/champ-loot and do it over and over again for a large % of players, since folks most often gravitate towards the path of least resistance.

What sort of systems of horizontal progression unlocking would you like to see that’d accompany a system like extended class progression?

Skill hunting.

Ways to implement could be similar to the EotN system. Spreading these unlocks as well as other rewards/progression content throughout Tyria’s map would help somewhat with high density low area map concentration, especially if the unlocks are done in such a way that they are accessible enough that players would want to take their alts to do the content too. The trick is finding the balance in the pacing.

Rank is not a good indicator of skill. There will be players 20 ranks lower yet better than you and players 20 ranks higher yet worse than you.

Identify the core reason you are having an issue and address that. Ranks are likely not the problem you are having.

Stay out of the fire field until it clears, or unleash a backstab combo before they have cast the field.

The best way to play theif is to play hit and run. Engage unload then get ooc. You usually won’t take them down upon your initial burst, so figure out what survivability works for you to finish the job. I will Hide in Shadows after the fire field stops to remove burning and try another backstab. I’ll also swap from d/d to d/p in order to throw down black powder.

Honestly, you play theif pretty much the same way vs every class, you just have to execute and know the minor differences.

I would prefer max level have been reached earlier in the story so people would be used to playing without vertical power progression. A big problem I think everyone has with Gw2 is that they don’t get value out of a lot of the story telling content as compared to what they’re used to. This combined with the time it takes to level keeps people away from replaying content (that and the fact that most of it isn’t replay able except on alts) and alts aren’t as fun to play after the initial experience bcs the story telling lacks a certain quality.

In PvE to make the theif simple to play Sword / pistol and high initiative Regen builds are the way to go.

Pistol whip is really good damage.
Black powder allows for perma blind and perma weakness from auto attacking.
Headshot is great for removing defiant stacks on champions.

Initiative regen let’s you do all this with more frequency

Having them replace an attunement or become a swappable weapon set seem like solid ideas.

Is there any known info about the Human Gods’ power as it is in their realms or the mist as opposed to the material world?

Maybe it’s a territory thing. Gods have greater power in their domain while the elder dragons happen to be powerful but only dwell in the physical world.

Agreed it is inconsistent and inconsistency isn’t good because it results in shattered expectations.

Chris Whiteside.6102:

Morning/Afternoon All,

Lots of ideas and discussion. I think it would be useful now to list your top three favorite ideas with either a link to your favorite description of that idea in the thread or a single sentence description of your own.

Let’s start to refine the ideas, filter and reduce them down the core of what makes them great in your opinion.

Chris

Just one link is all I have for now. It’s what I view as very important.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/CDI-Character-Progression-Horizontal/page/2#post3406583

Soulseek.2867:

There’s a slight difference between a Healing Skill and A Skill That Heals When Traited : )
Otherwise Restorative Illusions + Mender’s Purity would be a little too powerful. And make the other GM trait useless.

Is the implication that mantra of resolve isn’t a heal slot skill?

Taldren.7523:

All they need to do is have conjured weapons replace the weapon abilities of the attunement they are tied too.

Example(s):
Frost Bow would replace Water Attunement until dropped, or the duration runs out.
Flame Axe would replace Fire Attunement until dropped, or the duration runs out.
ect, ect.

That way we don’t lose access to all 20 of our abilities and instead just swap out 5 for each attunement type.

That’s actually a really creative idea. I’d love to test this out.

Addishuns.5249:

Shockwave.1230:

Addishuns.5249:

yeah they should really change it. Doesn’t make any sense when you think about it.

But look at it this way, if you go into options and change the colors for pvp then you are always against red.

This was a trol1 thread lol.

It actually makes perfect sense if you think about it. Red is bad. Green is Good. Then you don’t have to think about what team colors to look at. You just look at the green or red text.

People will only get confused if they think Red means Red Team and Green means Blue Team

Can be a troll thread all it wants. It doesn’t make sense.

I’m red team, enemy team names are red, but my team is capping point. Team point looks red.
…

In pretty much any competitive game I’ve played, Halo, CoD, Guild Wars PvP, Guild Wars 2 PvP, etc. the players are always distinguished by enemies = red and allies = green. Objectives do represent the team colors in all those games.

I’ve honestly never played a game competitively where the player text does not follow this format.

The Gates Assassin.9827:

Amir.1570:

Lyssa isn’t even the problem, why? Its not favorable on Ele at all. On Engi? Who the hell does that?

Lyssa’s only good on two characters, maybe four if you count guardian’s renewed focus and Mesmer mass invis. Other than that, the OP is just frustrated because Warriors destroy him.

Lyssa Warriors are indeed strong but that just means Warriors themselves need to be toned down.

Warrior, thief, mesmer, necromancer and guardian use Lyssa a lot. Engineer has one elite they can use for it (Elixir X), although that’s more rare. The problem people see is that this rune set makes choosing runes way too easy for certain classes. Why on earth would you use anything but lyssa on a thief? It gives you a new stomp. It clears a condi burst. It blocks an attack. It gives a short burst of swiftness. It’s just really really good. The argument I present is that maybe other runes should be pushed up to this level, especially the ones that are on elite. That, or just do a tiny nerf such as removing some of the boons given.

In my mind the question is why would I run lyssa on a Thief. I’d run Ogre or Eagle before lyssa. Basilisk Venom is most productive when you precast it so it’s recharging for another use before you do a spike.

A thief doesn’t have staying power to benefit from using basilisk venom during combat. An initiative regen build with lots of evades might have enough staying power and dps sustain to be worth using Basilisk Venom in combat, but those builds were heavily nerfed on dec 10th.

I honestly don’t need another way to stomp as a thief, as nice as stability would be, I have stealth I can use and blind I can use both with no cooldowns. Lyssa honestly doesn’t make sense to run on a thief for burst builds.

Other than the thief part, I agree there should be more rune choices than the handful that are viable currently.

kirito.4138:

So confused. I’m new to GW2 here. Used to playing TF2

You have over a year of posting history?

I’d love to see 45 second cooldown conjures, but they’re in a solid place at the moment honestly.

Use them as they are, utility skills. They don’t have to be used to the point that all their charges are exhausted. Pop a conjure, use it’s long CD skills, then drop it an resume your normal build (unless you’re like a Thor build or something)

Nice post OP

In PvP when a 1337 player loses it’s never the 1337 player’s fault. It’s really not worth getting down because of this attitude, since it will never go away in our lifetime

Addishuns.5249:

yeah they should really change it. Doesn’t make any sense when you think about it.

But look at it this way, if you go into options and change the colors for pvp then you are always against red.

This was a trol1 thread lol.

It actually makes perfect sense if you think about it. Red is bad. Green is Good. Then you don’t have to think about what team colors to look at. You just look at the green or red text.

People will only get confused if they think Red means Red Team and Green means Blue Team

Might be better to have a mod just move this thread.

Please?

Trololololol

Red is bad

Valarauka.2719:

RM is a separate effect, it doesn’t make charging count as a “heal skill”. Pretty sure it’s intended, although if RM + MP + MoR did make that happen it’d be pretty neat (and really strong!)

The tool tip with the above combination says Mantra of Recovery should remove 2 conditions, so I’m wonder if the tooltip is bugged or if the effect is bugged.

Pyroatheist.9031:

That’s intended (I think). The charge isn’t actually the healing skill being activated, as the healing skill is power return.

The Mantra heals with the trait Restorative Mantras

Oghier.7419:

Depths.4051:

Lots of people in wvw don’t see it this way

Some classes can build to match or exceed thief mobility. Some cannot. These are class-defining characteristics, just like armor, hit points, access to certain buffs, etc. If you don’t build for mobility, don’t expect to outrun classes that do. You can keep a thief in combat just by keeping up.

If you’re sick of thieves fleeing, build yourself a hyper-mobile warrior or elementalist, and add at least one AoE skill to screw up their Shadow Refuge. That evens the race up considerably.

L2P master right here

BlackBeard.2873:

I agree with Ken: the boons are nice, especially stab/aegis for some survival, but its really the condi-wipe that makes them so strong. Perhaps the stab helps on classes that already have really high uptime (warrior), but its the condis that matter more.

In fact, making the 4-slot stronger would keep these runes at approx. the same power-level. Reducing the number or condis cleared or adding an ICD would be more fair. I always feel like its just insane that some builds can get all of their necessary condi-clear from just the runes or runes + traits (such as cleansing ire + lyssa/signet of rage) makes it seem a little bit imba.

In fact, giving it the same treatment as corrupt boon (i.e. fewer boons/condis wiped) would be a good thing. Nerfing corrupt boon removed the only thing keeping these runes in check (as corrupting post-lyssa was almost instant-death).

The boons have a 5-7 second duration. It’s highly unlikely that 1 boon rip from one profession kept this runeset balanced. Considering there were 7 other professions without a complete boon rip it shows that the necro skill in quesiton didn’t make this skill not OP, it’s always been not OP.

Is Restorative Mantra’s + Mender’s Purity + Mantra of Recovery supposed to Remove 2 conditions?

It does trigger condition removal for power return but not when you cast Mantra of Recovery.

Not really concerned about balance, just want to know if it’s a bug or intended.

Lopez.7369:

Shockwave.1230:

I acknowledge your point and disagree. Ogre has a rock dog which is like a utility skill. Many runes have passive buffs that act like a signet, runes have healing skill effects too like lyssa and others.

There’s plenty of rune sets that act like a strong utility. People just don’t like that lyssa gives stability to builds that normally don’t have it or condition cleanse to builds that normally don’t have it. There’s standout runes like the ones I’ve mentioned and weak runes.

I still have yet to see a compelling reason lyssa should be nerfed. Giving builds condition removal or stability is like saying Ogre should be nerfed because it’s like having the superior sigil of force and a pet summon on builds that normally wouldn’t have a pet and that extra damage.

Rock dog is not a utility skill. It’s OK, but it’s not changing fights or builds. Lyssa runes go much, much farther by completely cleansing conditions and applying every boon in the game.

In other words, Lyssa runes are much stronger than other runes for classes that can take advantage of them. It’s not even close. That’s the imbalance.

It’s really not imbalanced, if it were lyssa would be the only logical option. The fact that it’s not imbalanced is why you see builds without Lyssa.

Cynz.9437:

Shockwave.1230:

Thief condition remove is pretty solid.

You have a guaranteed removal of damage conditions via Hide in Shadows

You have a guaranteed removal of CC conditions with Withdraw and Roll for initiative.

You can remove three conditions with Shadow Step > Shadow Return.

I have never really needed more condition removal that those slot skills.

wait untill you do spvp and face team with 3 necros and 2 bunker/condi engis… i promise you you will want to unistall or reroll

as for topic: in wvw i use SA trait + HIS + shs
in pvp: HiS, signet of agility + shs + lyssa runes

overall i think thief condi removal is actually decent, the problem is just the game is all about spamming aoe/condi on point atm (in pvp at least) so no condi clean in the world would help there… if anything they should remove toughness/condi gear and nerf bunker/condi builds… you shouldn’t be able to go bunker and still do silly dmg (via condi)

I have been pretty much exclusively PvPing recently and was referring to PvP with my point. I play hit and run though so thief condition removal as is works fine for me. For sustain builds, which the their can’t do well anyways is definitely lacking

Lopez.7369:

Shockwave.1230:

This argument doesn’t make sense to me. “Lyssa is a strong rune so it should be nerfed”. Pack is a strong rune too, should it be nerfed? Scholar and Eagle are strong too, should they be nerfed? Melandru is also strong, should that be nerfed? Ogre is strong, there’s a handful of standout runes. While there are numerous underpowered runes.

You completely misread my post. I never said Lyssa runes should be nerfed because they’re strong; I said they should be nerfed because they’re too strong compared to other runes. Huge difference.

For reference, all the runes you listed do not provide anything close to a fourth utility skill. Lyssa runes do.

I acknowledge your point and disagree. Ogre has a rock dog which is like a utility skill. Many runes have passive buffs that act like a signet, runes have healing skill effects too like lyssa and others.

There’s plenty of rune sets that act like a strong utility. People just don’t like that lyssa gives stability to builds that normally don’t have it or condition cleanse to builds that normally don’t have it. There’s standout runes like the ones I’ve mentioned and weak runes.

I still have yet to see a compelling reason lyssa should be nerfed. Giving builds condition removal or stability is like saying Ogre should be nerfed because it’s like having the superior sigil of force and a pet summon on builds that normally wouldn’t have a pet and that extra damage.

Ryan.9387:

I thought it meant a trading post addon.

The gw1 argos soft was the best.

gw2spidy has pretty much anything you’d want for the TP already

You probably want to look up the WvW season 1 results and choose based upon that.