Guild Wars 2

chtiyonki.6284:

I really don’t understand what are you showing on this attachment !

Look at the name of the character. Then ask what her gear is.

DivineBeing.2086:

@Sinos
That may be true for WoW, and I could see why they would want to write a log file to a clients computer.

But here is what you don’t understand, Anet doesn’t HAVE to write a log PERIOD! The statistics can be stored in memory and displayed to the user, once the user closes that dialog box, it will get disposed from memory.

Now, since Anet likes to log everything. They could also log the file on there server with the rest of the log files, not on the client, and again read the statistics via memory.

You’re acting like the only option to display such statistics is writing a log file that contains everyones statistics. And that isn’t true at all.

Now, could they write a log file containing only said users statistics, absolutely. I could see why a player would want to keep a log of his statistics.

I work in IT, I develop software for banks around the United States. By law, we have to log EVERYTHING for auditors. So yes, I know a little bit about logging, mmk.

Also, if they are reading statistics such as this from a log file than they really need to research some potential performance enhancements. Parsing through a log file is slow as hell compared to reaching for it through memory. It would be a very, VERY inefficient way of writing data to the screen.

Then what your talking about is a feature that would be fully controlled internally by ANet and not the players. My appologizes. I thought you were talking about parsers that worked outside your game so that you could log and analyze the info it collected.

In that case yes it would work. Everything would have to be done on there end and sent to ours as part of the UI.

Now that being said if they added such a feature it would only be a matter of time till people would whine and complain till it was opened up to area parsing. Which is something i dont agree with. In all honesty it takes the fun out of the game. An example is when i played Rift i was playing my thief i ran a parser full time. Once i had another thief tell me to step it up because i was the reason they failed as my dps wasent high enough. I linked the zone wide and the fight parse where i was 1k dps above any one else on the fight and asked him to try again as besides the healer he was the lowest damage in the group. At this point the group kicked him which was not the intention of my posting the parse as i was just showing that infact i was already by far doing the most. I got nasty tell’s from the guy who was kicked. While yes in this case i was the one running the parser and it was my mistake for linking a dps only parse to the party the members used it to justify kicking the person in question. What they dident see was that this person was playing a Bard support build and was outhealing the healer and not by just a little. But it was to late by the time i let them know what was going on. For this reason i personally do not want to see any form of parser in the game. It leads to oh your doing x wrong do this instead which honestly is no fun at all. If i wanted to play a cookie cutter character i would play a different game that did not give me different ways to build my character. As long as im not something like say a monk rolling all fire elementalist skill’s in GW1 and do my part to help the group who cares if im not your perfect support build.

I know bit of a rant there but those are my feelings on this subject.

The jewelery is as follows.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Triforge_Pendant
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Emerald_Orichalcum_Earring_of_the_Knight
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Emerald_Orichalcum_Ring_of_the_Knight

Ok so for the rings and earrings obviously theres 2 of them and my guess is there loaded with Beryl Jewels to boost crit damage. If they did this that gives them 20% crit damage right there between the jewels and the Triforge Pendant. They also pribally are running something simular to a 0/15/30/20/5 build which should give them another 30% crit damage, 300 extra toughness, and 2000 hp. Ok so last thing ill touch on is the backpack. My guess is its eather the guild assassin or the defender backpack slotted with a Beryl Jewel which would add 4%/3% crit damage respectively. So between those items and traits you have 53%/54% crit damage, extra toughness, extra hp. This leaves weapons and armor to get the rest of the stats which my guess is a mix of valk/knights gear.

Wethospu.6437:

Well, yes if they send you data about all players then you can read it. But what if they just send your data?

If thats possible to only send just that data it would be fine. Only issue here is most of these parsing programs search out a line of code that would be identical to all players around you to grab the log info from all of the players around you. The difference between the different log files would be destination markers. So they would have to code it in a way that it has some kind of encription to it that reads some identification marker linked to your client/account then decripts your data once your client receives the data client side. Doing this might work but it would eat a ton of resources server and client side due to the encription.

DivineBeing.2086:

SiNoS.2147:

DivineBeing.2086:

SiNoS.2147:

If theres a log file being put out from the server its possible to make a program that not only grabs your’s but anyone elses around you. So even if its ment to only be for you simple fact of the matter is any log file can be parsed and abused.

Anet is nortoriously known for their extensive logging, so I wouldn’t be surprised if this information isn’t already readily available. They log everything! So even if it wasn’t explicitly listed out, it could easily be parsed just the same through keywords.

Sorry, but that argument is very invalid. Especially considering your average player will not have the knowledge to gain access to the folder structure on the hosting server.

They have flat admitted there is logs. Thats not what i was pointing out. The fact is those logs are not being sent out to clients as such you would have to hack the servers to gain access to it. Could that be done. Possibly. Thing is they would have to release the logs to client side before you could parse them. Also you wouldent have to have the knowledge of how to access the files needed. One person writes the program then releases it to the public. It happens in every game that has client logging, and it is abused in every game i’ve seen it in. So infact your argument is very invalid.

HAHA! You’re expecting the entire community, or even majority of the community to use a third party program that could very well get them prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law due to unauthorized access to a production system where said user could get more information than just DPS stastitics? You’re a joke man.

And you also are stating the a company like Anet would write a log out to the clients computer for some oddly random reason (which means there is NO reason) in order to display DPS statistics to the client computer?

Are you seriously even reading what you post or just trying to sound smart? Have you ever worked in IT? My gosh lol….

You clearly cant read. People use 3rd party programs to parse client side log files that are enabled by the company. Thats where your dps meters come from. You obviously have no idea how these programs work and are talking out your kitten

Edit: An example of such 3rd party programs would be recount which so many wow vets would be familar with. Another would be a program called Advanced Combat Tracker, ACT for short. Both of these 3rd party programs are used by millions of people. So yes a large majority of the gaming community does use such programs.

DivineBeing.2086:

SiNoS.2147:

If theres a log file being put out from the server its possible to make a program that not only grabs your’s but anyone elses around you. So even if its ment to only be for you simple fact of the matter is any log file can be parsed and abused.

Anet is nortoriously known for their extensive logging, so I wouldn’t be surprised if this information isn’t already readily available. They log everything! So even if it wasn’t explicitly listed out, it could easily be parsed just the same through keywords.

Sorry, but that argument is very invalid. Especially considering your average player will not have the knowledge to gain access to the folder structure on the hosting server.

They have flat admitted there is logs. Thats not what i was pointing out. The fact is those logs are not being sent out to clients as such you would have to hack the servers to gain access to it. Could that be done. Possibly. Thing is they would have to release the logs to client side before you could parse them. Also you wouldent have to have the knowledge of how to access the files needed. One person writes the program then releases it to the public. It happens in every game that has client logging, and it is abused in every game i’ve seen it in. So infact your argument is very invalid.

Mantis.5793:

thanks guys for your responses .. really appreciated.
Think ill start my journey with guardian.
Sound like something i might really enjoy.

thanks again guys… good community so far here

Be sure to check out the class forum as well. There is a lot of helpful people in that forum. Some whiners/troll’s but you will figure those out fairly fast. Best of luck and remember should you have any issues just post it in the guardian forum’s. Our community is normally fairly good at getting back to you with the answers you need.

Hero Toeben.7562:

Agreed. To be honest, in most cases I’ve seen, its just the players not being able to use the class to its full potential. Ive died many times right next to a guardian and not once did they really use any skills that could have helped.
BUT! I’ve also been in a pinch when someone who knew how to use the class well, saved us all.

It was awesome to watch.

Ill agree with this statement. A well played guard can seriously make the difference. Ill also say anyone who plays a support type can do the same. It really depends on the skill level of the player and what they have to use at that point in time. On my guard if we are really in a pinch i normally have 1 group heal, 2-3 group regen’s, 2 aegis, massive condition removal, and protection. I could help out more if i would use a hammer but frankly i just hate its looks. Also on top of that i normally also have 3 blinds, and around 7-10 seconds of damage immunity for my self so that i can not worry about that massive hit coming while im reviving any downed team mates.

Mantis.5793:

i like both honestly.
maybe if one is better than the other for solo play that might sway my decision, but in all honestly… i like to pick my toons depending on what the community needs most

Well one of the nice things is in this game you really can fill about any role with any class. I’ve seen elementalist tank mobs that warrior’s and guardian’s have fallen to and i’ve seen thiefs that support instead of damage. Granted they tend to do it threw debuffing the mobs instead of healing allies but the ability is there. That being said if you like both that basically rules out guardian as while we do have a few ranged items to make them worth it your really going to shoot yourself in the foot in most cases. But for solo play few classes are easier to just pickup and play than a guardian due to there innate support abilities. Elementalist take the longest to come into there own due to having to unlock there skill’s for each weapon set. Thats 20 skill’s per set. Alot of there support comes from atunement hopping. As for Engies they are a class all there own. Best way i can describe them is they do everything but are kinda shoehorned into one thing at a time. You can do great damage or support. I main a guardian and i would actually go as far to say engie’s if played right are the only class that will out support me. But they wont do it while keeping up with me in terms of everything else. I can take a hit deal some good damage while being above average support as a guardian. I’ve not found that balance on my engie or ele yet.

Mantis.5793:

hmm ok.
well in that case.
What would you guys say is the best class for end-game content?
what do groups need most?

IMHO group’s need someone who can do a little of everything. You need to be able to support/damage/control to be of extreme use to your group. Any class can do this. Some are easier to do this than others.

So lets find out a few more things about you. You already hinted you like to heal. Off the top of my head the best healing support types in the game are pribally guardian/ele/eng at this point in time. I hear warriors might do ok but personally i’ve never seen one come close. So knowing that what style of play do you prefer? Ranged or melee?

DivineBeing.2086:

Sabin.4590:

I dont care about what others do, i want my feedback, i want to know what kind of attacks killed me, i want to know my interrupts , i want to know how much damage i took and ofc i want to know how much damage i did, so i can compare different builds to see what is more effective for my party.
I dont care about other people numbers, just give mine.

Ladies and gentleman, here is our happy medium.

Great idea Sabin! I honestly didn’t even think about that xD. I was too busy constantly pointing people to my posts that they fail to read and you can tell because they always state "err, but kitten I don’t dps, I give boons, your meter wouldn’t provide that kitten , when I clearly stated it did in two (maybe three) posts now.

But I am fully on board when this idea of only providing your stats!

@SinoS
Oh my gosh :/. How can people abuse a meter that ONLY provides your stats (not everyone elses)

The only valid argument against Sabin’s idea would be players might potentially still do stupid things in order to gain more DPS on their scoreboard at the end. Even that argument is now shaky considering what is said person really fighting for? Nothing. Why? Because at the end of the run, nobody will see if he scored 100k dps or 10k dps. So fact is, most players won’t even care.

PEOPLE START READING ALL POSTS IN THIS THREAD BEFORE YOU SPEW NON SENSE, IT’S ONLY TWO PAGES. COME ON :/

If theres a log file being put out from the server its possible to make a program that not only grabs your’s but anyone elses around you. So even if its ment to only be for you simple fact of the matter is any log file can be parsed and abused.

Sabin.4590:

I dont care about what others do, i want my feedback, i want to know what kind of attacks killed me, i want to know my interrupts , i want to know how much damage i took and ofc i want to know how much damage i did, so i can compare different builds to see what is more effective for my party.
I dont care about other people numbers, just give mine.

The thing is if they were to give it to someone like your self who “says” they wont abuse it theres a million that would abuse it. Thats where the real issue lies. Most that would use this would abuse it.

I used says like that because frankly i hear stuff like this a lot but very rarely is it not used by the players saying the same thing you are to discriminate against other players. I dont know you and i dont know if you really would just use it for your self or to discriminate or not.

Drekor.5217:

I went Sylvari, I regret every moment of it.

Ya i was going to go Sylvari but i happened to look ahead and play one in the final BWE. I learned that it was a horrid idea and never looked back.

Iarkrad.8415:

Just get a coral 80 set and put rabid on all of them. Since coral has precision major, and rabid has condition major, it tends to balance out fairly well, despite the useless power on coral.

Ok im just going to make this statement so that others realize this. Not insulting you or anything.

For those reading this post realize power infact is not useless as there is a lot of stuff in this game that condition’s do not have any effect on and as such only power will actually increase damage against this stuff. In general having a balance between the two or two sets of gear is the best for when doing content.

Now that said do not mistake this as a post saying the person i quoted doesent know anything. That is not the point of this post and is not intended. Everyone is entitaled to play the way they want without being called names.

Akacia.1583:

SiNoS.2147:

Akacia.1583:

Hobocop.1508:

Akacia.1583:

Hobocop.1508:

People still graveyard zerg? I haven’t done that in a legitimate PuG (people are actually the minimum level for the dungeon) since the first couple of weeks after launch, unless it’s that strat in CoF path 2 because most people are too lazy to do it the ‘hard’ way with no deaths, even though it’s probably easier and faster to do it that way if done correctly.

This is BS…. you know as does everyone else know who has played this that you have ran back to a fight in a dungeon and not just when you first started.

Sure I did…when I was learning the fight and didn’t know what I was doing just yet. Notice the part ‘first couple of weeks after launch’.

It still happens now as well. Believe me you do die in Arah and not just once and you do run back to the fight.

Sure there is a big difference from say the 15 times you may have used to die compared to the handful of times you do now and or you get revived in down state.

Dieing 2-3 times in a zone and running back is not graveyard zerging. Graveyard zerging is dieing 5 times to the same mob and running back over and over.

so up to 3 times on a mob running back in isn’t zerging but once you hit 5 is……. um OK.

upwards of 3 times per 5 players in the zone is upwards of 15 times until I guess it is considered the graveyard zerg.

Anyhow point being everyone has and does do it in this game from time to time

You dident read. I said 2-3 times per ZONE. And no not everyone graveyard zergs. I’ve done it one time because the group sucked. Since then i have never done it again. I average less than a death per zone. I’ve been in since day one of early access. So saying everyone graveyard zergs is completely false. In most cases just taking the time to explain each fight to make sure every one knows what to expect it makes it much easier to dodge the stuff that will cause major issues and you tend to die much less.

Akacia.1583:

Hobocop.1508:

Akacia.1583:

Hobocop.1508:

People still graveyard zerg? I haven’t done that in a legitimate PuG (people are actually the minimum level for the dungeon) since the first couple of weeks after launch, unless it’s that strat in CoF path 2 because most people are too lazy to do it the ‘hard’ way with no deaths, even though it’s probably easier and faster to do it that way if done correctly.

This is BS…. you know as does everyone else know who has played this that you have ran back to a fight in a dungeon and not just when you first started.

Sure I did…when I was learning the fight and didn’t know what I was doing just yet. Notice the part ‘first couple of weeks after launch’.

It still happens now as well. Believe me you do die in Arah and not just once and you do run back to the fight.

Sure there is a big difference from say the 15 times you may have used to die compared to the handful of times you do now and or you get revived in down state.

Dieing 2-3 times in a zone and running back is not graveyard zerging. Graveyard zerging is dieing 5 times to the same mob and running back over and over.

Only time i have seen non crafted stats is random mob drop. Put on your MF gear and join a zerg is your best bet.

Another thing is each time you “level up” you are fully healed. Which can be great at times if you have multiple mobs on you.

The Mexican Cookie.3690:

Tinni.4351:

The Mexican Cookie.3690:

All I do is dungeons in this game, but I don’t know if I actually find them fun. Think it just keeps me entertained as I don’t enjoy leveling.

… you can’t be doing things right. What do you mean you don’t like leveling? What do you do mean by it? I mean, I leveled by completing maps. How is that not fun? You go to a map and it’s at 0% and you are all like “I am lost and confused and there are wolves after me!” but then explore a bit, do some heart, tags WPs, get points of interests and then when you are 100% you are all like “Oh I see! It all makes sense now!” and I don’t just mean the map but you get to learn a bit about the lore and what’s happening too! But of course, you do actually have to pay attention, follow the events, talk to the NPCs etc, etc. If all you are doing is mindlessly killing like a bot, well yes, leveling is not a lot of fun. But if you enter a map zone wanting to learn about the zone – you get more out of the experience IMO. I mean, the lore in this game is really rich. So might as well dive into it! Not to mention that 100%ing a map zone get’s you money and lootz!

I don’t find it enjoyable, cool for people who do, but I don’t. I play games for enjoyable repeatable content, which GW1 provided and this game kind of provides. Completing maps is not for me.

Whether or not you’re able to understand that, idk. But I’m not alone with this mentality. I don’t judge people who enjoy leveling and not dungeons, I’d like to receive the same mutual acceptance.

Eh i was about to jump at the other poster. You are perfectly fine with how you play as that is the point of the game and why its viable to get to 80 with about anything you do. Those saying players are wrong for not enjoying something need to keep there mouths shut. The Mexican Cookie is doing things exactly how ANet intended. He doesent enjoy a part of the content so he doesent do it. This game is designed to provide content in a form that if you dont enjoy it you move on to other content not sit and complain about it. In general there is content out there for most everyone.

That said. I hope you can come to enjoy the dungeons as that is the type of content you seem to be looking for. Also might i ask why you are not sure if you enjoy it or not?

Most likely he just left the group. Theres an issue of when leader leaves it boots everyone from zone, and i beleave from party. In order to kick even as a leader last time i tried it there had to be a 2nd person to approve.

I went human. Out of the races human just looked best to me. Although if done all over i would make my guard a female instead of male as to me the armor just looks better.

If im not mistaken lava axe is an elementalist skill. I’ve yet to personally see the skin on a normal weapon.

When i was leveling i focused vitality and toughness. Then I used a defensive weapon set and a Greatsword for the group up and burndown combo. Over all this seemed to be a good combo for me. Once i got into 2 stat gear i went toughness/vit for armor and power/precision for weapon’s and jewelery to give me a good balance. Over all i had good damage and could survive mobs that were wiping groups of 2-4 people at a time.

Kita.7819:

2 silver to whomever can translate what TheZeus just said.

Ill add 2 silver to that as well.

Robbo.9836:

Wouldn’t that get boring? Using the same weapon set over and over?

if you get tired of the same weaponset then the only class for you is eng’s. Every other class is fairly stuck on weapon’s.

You dont die as easy.

Another thing is to make sure your running proper drivers. With one GTS 450 i average 50ish fps and around 25-30 in wvw.

Melody Cross.8465:

Hello

I only just got to level 400 recently in armor smith and I made my first set of exotics. But I did so reluctantly. After some time searching online and in the world, I could not find an insignia that applied Power, Toughness, and Vitality to my exotic.

I was hoping this is an oversight on my part, but the answers I’ve found online and with other players is that such an insignia does not exist.

I would like to know if I simply was misled or if this is true. If it is true, I think it is an error on anets’ part or is it intentional. If an error, I would be happy to see such an insignia from a karma vendor. If it was intended, I would like to know why.

Its just a bit of a let down to get all the way to level 80, make all those materials and then realize that i can’t actually make the armor I wanted to :P

Thanks for any replies. Sorry if this has been posted before.

Mel

Its not an error. There are multiple stat sets that are not craftable. These sets are reserved to Dungeon venders and Karma venders. Just in the same way crafted sets are reserved to crafting and not available at said venders.

Go to the guardian forums and read up some. Theres really great help from us guardians there. That being said it really does depend on how you are going to build your traits and what you want to do with your guardian as to which stats to build.

In PvE its the Vigil Greatsword.

Build 0/15/30/20/5
Armor: Healing Power/Precision/Vitality
Weapons: Power/Toughness/Vitality
Jewelery: Toughness/Power/Precision

Weapon: Greatsword (On LA Practice Dummy)
Skill 1: 600-900
Skill 2: 1900-2000
Skill 3: 800-900

Since i cant crit on the Dummy that isent able to be factored in. But this is a high defense build.

PopeUrban.2578:

Personally, I always felt like the commander should have been tied to guild influence as a buyable upgrade in the art of war tree.

Put it as a rank 3 upgrade, unlocked as a slot in the guild interface. Have it cost a good amount (5-10k) influence, and allow guilds to only assign one commander at a time.

Thus, when you see a commander you know that at the very least they’ve either solo-guildfarmed a massive amount of inf (for a solo player) that they would have a good understanding of PvE event chains or WvW operations, or they’re in a guild that can field a few people, enough so that they would presumably have a ready supply of guildmates to command so you’d more often be joining an actual squad that’s already been formed than simply joining some random guy that managed to burn 100 gold.

Um just to point out you can buy guild influence. 20 gold is 10k.

Not a bad idea though other than that.

Items you can craft are the exact same stats as equal level items you find on the market. Blue level items will have the same total stats as other blue’s same with green’s to greens and so forth.

Now that being said most crafter will see 0 profit till 400 and even then most have issues finding the money. That being said it is possible to make bank it just takes some research on the player’s part to find it as those that make bank will not say what it is there making it on for obvious reason’s.

Archmortal.1027:

For what it’s worth, the “majority” that want more stats seem kind of out-numbered on the forums. Pretty loud, but outnumbered.

Adventure-based progression isn’t the same as a beneficial upgrade to a character. It’s an intangible increase in satisfaction upon reaching the plateau of content completion, whether it’s more content or just content that gets progressively more difficult as it’s/the more it’s done. There is no disruption in the playing field between those that are able/willing to progress at the fastest rate and those that are not able/willing to do so.

There’s honestly no “fluff” at all to this game as-is in my opinion. Real fluff is the grind that progressively unlocks more grind to do between reset timers that if you skip on, reduces your ability to progress at the same pace as your competitors. That this game doesn’t operate on a gear treadmill archetype means that perspective isn’t applicable to it or the rewards available in it. It’s a paradigm shift and needs to be looked at accordingly before terms like “fluff” get thrown around.

Fortunately for GW2, it’s not trying to follow the standard template and as of yet is following its own paradigm very successfully. The content release basis concern is valid enough but doesn’t seem to apply to this game so far. I kind of doubt Halloween and this new thing later this month were developed post-release of the game.

Well as far as content goes i want to say it was about a year or two ago it was leaked at E3 i beleave that the dev’s were playing threw the first expansion. Have not heard anything more about it since but even that far back they atleast had playable content in the first expansion.

Taemek.1602:

SiNoS.2147:

Taemek.1602:

Yes, but this topic is about meaningful and beneficial character progression.

Actually its about overblown stats on gear according to what the OP was. :P

But that aside. The kind of progression your talking about is just bragging rights. If there was a way to bring anything to the game without improving stats and making one character more powerful than another then we would be onto something. But with the current idea’s poping up on this thread its just a i want to be more powerful than x. Currently put someone in max level exotics and set them loose the difference isent gear level its raw skill. But make these changes and all of a sudden those horrible players with 12 hours a day to play will now out play the super skilled players that work all day long then come home to there family and may be able to spend at max 2-4 hours on the game if there lucky.

All that said there’s some really intelligent people debating in this thread. We should be able to come up with something other than we need more stats.

Unfortunately, the standard template that MMORPG’s have always followed is, you get rewarded for your time spent playing and that involves upgrading your character in some form or gear upgrades.

If you take away that ability to beneficially upgrade or advance your character to be better and better all the time, the game grows old, real quick and people find it bland with no progression.

Yes, some people like content progression regardless how it is implement ethier by stats or content you progress through. Some like simple things like skins, however, the majority want stat or adventure based progression and farming skins or fluff material is something people do in thier own time when waiting for friends or guildies to log in. It is more something to fill time.

At the end of the day, the people want true, meaningful and beneficial progression, regardless how it is implemented, outweigh those who just want more simple things in life like, skins.

Another issue with the MMORPG genre today is, if constant content is not released on at least a 6 month basis, people tend to start leaving a game in droves. This puts most gaming companies in a postion where they have to use massive advertising campaigns to get them back, give them something to return, bonuses, more fluff stuff that is usaully beneficial for them just enough to return. Even then, these same people tend to only come back for a month or 2, maybe 3. Then they are off again, searching for another game or game hopping.

To me, (been gaming for the best part of almost 20 years now, yes, old) a successful gaming company already has thier 3, 6 and 9 month content pacthes ready to go upon release of the game. This gives them time to work on a big expasion coming into the 12 month period and keeps everyone fresh, excited and willing to stay to see whats going on and what is around the corner.

Ill agree in traditional MMO’s thats the case. But GW is not a traditional MMO. In order to put those type of content into the game it would have to be redesigned from the ground up which in all honesty is a horrible idea. There are tons of games out there with this design type. And to be honest they all flopped and not just slightly, except wow which honestly lucked out by hitting a ton of factors just right.

GW1 did great all things considered and the dev’s instead of trying to lean more toward a traditional MMO structure need to go back to its roots and bring the same feel GW1 had.

The reason the T1, T2, and T3 Armor costs what it does is pribally due to the fact its the only race aligned set of gear in the game. The weapons can be bought and used by any race but the armor is another matter entirely. Due to this it makes sense that it would be different. Im personally fine with it costing what it does. Its a fairly unseen skin that people do ask where you got it. Which is the point.

Dead.7385:

SiNoS.2147:

All that said there’s some really intelligent people debating in this thread. We should be able to come up with something other than we need more stats.

Dungeon boss specific weapon sigils. Nothing too game breaking, but interesting enough to make character builds from.

Sigil’s might work. It would have to be on the same level as already existing sigil’s though as to not give anyone an edge. Ill admit though im confused as to what you mean by character builds.

Also with the huge variety we already have in sigil’s i dont see what they could really add to make a difference. But this is an interesting idea. If you mentioned it earlier i do appologize as i missed it.

Taemek.1602:

Yes, but this topic is about meaningful and beneficial character progression.

Actually its about overblown stats on gear according to what the OP was. :P

But that aside. The kind of progression your talking about is just bragging rights. If there was a way to bring anything to the game without improving stats and making one character more powerful than another then we would be onto something. But with the current idea’s poping up on this thread its just a i want to be more powerful than x. Currently put someone in max level exotics and set them loose the difference isent gear level its raw skill. But make these changes and all of a sudden those horrible players with 12 hours a day to play will now out play the super skilled players that work all day long then come home to there family and may be able to spend at max 2-4 hours on the game if there lucky.

All that said there’s some really intelligent people debating in this thread. We should be able to come up with something other than we need more stats.

Katz.5143:

Adine.2184:

as ive said many times before T3 is the equivalent of FoW armor in GW1 . It costs an insane amount and is simply there so the rich have a visual to show off their wealth . It also serves to remove gold from circulation .

I thought it was the legendary armor that was the equivalent of FOW armor. It’s more along the line of the other kind of armor, can’t remember what it was called now, elite?
Like the Vabbian armor and such.

There is no legendary armor.

Kermit.3601:

SiNoS.2147:

Kermit.3601:

SiNoS.2147:

Kermit.3601:

Archmortal.1027:

So then the content isn’t geared for people that think the repair cost is a barrier to playing the game?

I realize this is a fine line, perhaps a slippery slope. Are you really that invested in this subject, or more interested in winning a forum debate? I’m curious, is a suggestion with the hope of encouraging people experience more challenging content, and even with the hopes encouraging Anet to develop more difficult content that misplaced?

The problem is if you take out repairs graveyard zerging will get even worse. Atleast right now they will hit a point where they must stop the dungeon because there naked with no coin left.

I think Nurvus.2891 had some good suggestions in curbing graveyard zerging. And truth is, in the case of graveyard zerging, I would like to see a solution that completely prevents it rather than one that just deters it.

While i agree it would be nice if it was gone the one fundamental design about GW2 is its made so EVERYONE can complete everything. In cases graveyard zerging is what it will take for your very bottom of the player base to get threw it. But in truth graveyard zerging doesent affect you unless your running in a pug thats just plain horrible. From personal experience i’ve yet to have one of these groups. What sets people apart is there skill. Sure they may be able to do it but they wont finish it any where near as fast as you and you will come out ahead at the end of the dungeon.

Yeah, and I really wasn’t trying to start any sort of heated debate. The truth is, in my mind, armor damage is a minor annoyance and for me personally, it isn’t a deterrent. But my mind got to turning and the thought popped in my head: “What REAL benefit do we get from having Armor Damage in the game and could removing it possibly improve the game?”

Which led me to the statement where Anet has said that explorables are geared to be challenging for pugs, and moderately difficult for organized groups. I would like to see them intoduce MUCH harder content. Stuff that you can’t PUG. (side note: not necessarily more personal rewards, but perhaps significant influence/guild rewards to encourage guilds to work at the content)

I was a big fan of Demon Souls. I think any real challenge will be preceded with lots and lots of failure. So I got to thinking, and formed the opinion that it would be more awesome to have super challenging content where dying was an expected part of the learning process both in learning nuances of your profession, and learning the challenge mechanics (I’m being generic as I believe the philosophy applies to more than dungeons) and remove or modify the armor repair mechanic, than set an expectation that all challenges are doable with moderate loss to gold via the repair mechanic.

I actually like that there have been so many comments on this. I personally think it’s an interesting thought to ponder.

TL;DR: Harder content with less failure penalty is better than easier content with acceptable failure penalty that can be mitigated.

The only think about “Harder content with less failure penalty” is it honestly is no different than “easier content with acceptable failure penalty”. If you make stuff harder but have no down side the people that are bad will still do it but just be furious with how its not fun. Yes i know im a major preacher of the then why do it saying and ill stick to it. But when it comes down to it the only fix would to be make it so hard theres 0 chance they could do it which goes against the design of ANet. They want EVERYONE to be able to complete the content should they want to. When it really does come down to it one of two things has to happen. ANet abandons there standards and turns this game into a wow clone and it flops like every other major game in the what past 5-7 years. Or they stick to there guns and make a game that actually makes it. Sure they would never have 10 mill players. But they would pribally hold strong in the 750000-1.5 mil range. Which is more than respectable. I personally would like harder dungeons. But im not willing for that at the risk of a wow clone. So what do i do i come up with ways to make the zones harder and more enjoyable for myself. Oh you need x classes with x spec. Ill throw that out the window and while were at it no waypoint useage. Oh and if you die stay dead or revive and stay at the start. Lets see just what we can do when we as a player base set the difficulty on our own. We dont need dev’s to make anything harder. The game is so flexible they gave us the means to do it our self. We just have to actually take the initiative to do it.

Taemek.1602:

SiNoS.2147:

Taemek.1602:

SiNoS.2147:

Taemek.1602:

SiNoS.2147:

Taemek.1602:

SiNoS.2147:

Taemek.1602:

FluffyDoe.7539:

I think the what the OP means is that he wants ‘dungeon progression’ and not ‘gear progression’.

^ This.

As We stated earlier. Content progression can be implemented in many forms. It does not have to revovle around a stat beneficial increment. Anyone who thinks this is living in the past.

The goal obviously is trying to get the better gears. But after I have farmed enough AC tokens to get the whole armor sets and weapons I desire to use, I find myself wondering what’s next for me. I have no reason to try to farm other dungeons any longer, since they all give out same stats of armor sets, only with different look to it.

That quote is from the OP first paragraph. Its pretty obvious that its gear progression he wants. He clearly does not care about anything other than stats.

I would rather see a different form of character progression tbh.

They already have it in place to certain extent. We keep gaining xp even when 80 and we can buy every Skill point based ability there is.

Why not in a future expasion consider another form of character progression in the form of alternative advancement like other games have done in the past. EQ1 and 2 had a similiar system. There is other games with less drawn out versions of it and more casual.

It doesn’t matter if you are a casual player or a hard core player, with a Alternative Advancement system, your character is always progressing one way or another and doesn’t require a gear grind.

This way they can still add new content, without the mudflation of gear upgrades and still put character requirement flags in there so they have a meaningful and beneficial reason behind doing it.

This adds even more emphasis on doing old content, new content and participating in dynamic events, it gives a beneficial meaning to XP gain, all the time.

Its already in the game. They are called traits.

No, that is your standard characters leveling system, once you hit 80, it ends. I am talking about something that resembles how we can still currently buy Skill points.

A system like this would last years before any kind of gear upgrade would be needed.

The type of system your referring to im quite familar with and could infact be fully filled before you hit or as you hit max level in eq2. It enhanced your skill’s. That is no different than the trait system. As for gear theres no reason gear would ever need to be upgraded. To be honest though adding a secondary system on top of everything would seriously break content as currently a lot of people feel content is to easy.

Now im not saying its not a good idea, it is and works well in other games, but its not needed when we have traits (aa in other games) and honestly would be waisted here. People keep pointing to things that make there characters more powerful which would start the whole power/gear treadmill which like the aa honestly has no spot in this game given its fundamentally designed against those design elements.

Most peoples arguments for no gear grind is that not everyone has access to it or gets to experience that part of the content.

Alternative Advancment, regardless if you are casual or hardcore, everyone gets to participate in it from just doing the content in game, dungeons, dynamic events, going back to lower end content etc etc.

As it is atm, once you have all your skills bought, level 80, XP is meaningless, yet we still aquire it with everything we do.

It needs to be put to use for further character advancement.

Its actually used for the mystic forge. If you use it a lot it can eat threw massive amounts of skill points.

Which serves no purpose when you have the top end gear.

Theres always use for the mf. Just because you see no point does not mean its not there. So what if you have top end gear. Can alway sell the items or bank them or go for really rare skins. That is the reason you still get xp. Its to give you access to such stuff.

Taemek.1602:

SiNoS.2147:

Taemek.1602:

SiNoS.2147:

Taemek.1602:

SiNoS.2147:

Taemek.1602:

FluffyDoe.7539:

I think the what the OP means is that he wants ‘dungeon progression’ and not ‘gear progression’.

^ This.

As We stated earlier. Content progression can be implemented in many forms. It does not have to revovle around a stat beneficial increment. Anyone who thinks this is living in the past.

The goal obviously is trying to get the better gears. But after I have farmed enough AC tokens to get the whole armor sets and weapons I desire to use, I find myself wondering what’s next for me. I have no reason to try to farm other dungeons any longer, since they all give out same stats of armor sets, only with different look to it.

That quote is from the OP first paragraph. Its pretty obvious that its gear progression he wants. He clearly does not care about anything other than stats.

I would rather see a different form of character progression tbh.

They already have it in place to certain extent. We keep gaining xp even when 80 and we can buy every Skill point based ability there is.

Why not in a future expasion consider another form of character progression in the form of alternative advancement like other games have done in the past. EQ1 and 2 had a similiar system. There is other games with less drawn out versions of it and more casual.

It doesn’t matter if you are a casual player or a hard core player, with a Alternative Advancement system, your character is always progressing one way or another and doesn’t require a gear grind.

This way they can still add new content, without the mudflation of gear upgrades and still put character requirement flags in there so they have a meaningful and beneficial reason behind doing it.

This adds even more emphasis on doing old content, new content and participating in dynamic events, it gives a beneficial meaning to XP gain, all the time.

Its already in the game. They are called traits.

No, that is your standard characters leveling system, once you hit 80, it ends. I am talking about something that resembles how we can still currently buy Skill points.

A system like this would last years before any kind of gear upgrade would be needed.

The type of system your referring to im quite familar with and could infact be fully filled before you hit or as you hit max level in eq2. It enhanced your skill’s. That is no different than the trait system. As for gear theres no reason gear would ever need to be upgraded. To be honest though adding a secondary system on top of everything would seriously break content as currently a lot of people feel content is to easy.

Now im not saying its not a good idea, it is and works well in other games, but its not needed when we have traits (aa in other games) and honestly would be waisted here. People keep pointing to things that make there characters more powerful which would start the whole power/gear treadmill which like the aa honestly has no spot in this game given its fundamentally designed against those design elements.

Most peoples arguments for no gear grind is that not everyone has access to it or gets to experience that part of the content.

Alternative Advancment, regardless if you are casual or hardcore, everyone gets to participate in it from just doing the content in game, dungeons, dynamic events, going back to lower end content etc etc.

As it is atm, once you have all your skills bought, level 80, XP is meaningless, yet we still aquire it with everything we do.

It needs to be put to use for further character advancement.

Its actually used for the mystic forge. If you use it a lot it can eat threw massive amounts of skill points.

FluffyDoe.7539:

SiNoS.2147:

Taemek.1602:

FluffyDoe.7539:

I think the what the OP means is that he wants ‘dungeon progression’ and not ‘gear progression’.

^ This.

As We stated earlier. Content progression can be implemented in many forms. It does not have to revovle around a stat beneficial increment. Anyone who thinks this is living in the past.

The goal obviously is trying to get the better gears. But after I have farmed enough AC tokens to get the whole armor sets and weapons I desire to use, I find myself wondering what’s next for me. I have no reason to try to farm other dungeons any longer, since they all give out same stats of armor sets, only with different look to it.

That quote is from the OP first paragraph. Its pretty obvious that its gear progression he wants. He clearly does not care about anything other than stats.

But this game does need dungeon progression… isn’t that the reason why they’re making the new dungeon mode?

“…the dungeon gets harder the deeper you go…” <- Dungeon Progression.

Thats fine. Dungeon progression is not gear progression. They are very different. If you read my past posts i’ve actually touched on things players them selfs can do to make there own progression. Thats whats wrong with this generation of player. They have no initiative to do things for them selfs they just want to look for the easy path do everything the exact same then complain that theres nothing to do.

NinjaEd.3946:

For armour mainly, since thats the only piece that applys here. When salvaging with a black lion salvage kit, or the last tier salave kit (Including mystic salvage kit) you have a small chance to recover the dye(s) from that piece. Only works for pieces that are Master quality or up and only works on gear that is not soulbound (So you can’t buy some expensive dye, put it on some cheap master set and possibly gain 5 gold out of it.) You can’t dye any armour you arn’t wearing anyways so there is no way to abuse it. All this would do is add a little bonus for salvage kits.

I guess gear that is made or found would have to come with a dye on it to begin with so previewing gear that isn’t soulbound would show what dye it has in it. That way you can see what potential reward you can get for salvaging it. It sounds like this would just hurt the economy more but salvaging gear means that piece won’t be in the Trade Post so theres a less consistent profit already (Salvaging exotics and rares is usually less profitable than just selling the piece so not much money to make) and like I stated, a small chance. Nothing that would make spamming this promising.
Feedback?

Its not a bad idea but there is a major flaw. How do you know if it has a dye color? Reason i ask this is these items default to what ever your default color for that slot is. Theres a very few cases, 1 for myself other than my HoM gear personally out of over 2000 pieces of gear, that its had a color i’ve not had and it was in a slot that i have never used. Thing is when i equiped it the color was actually there even though i dident have it.

Taemek.1602:

SiNoS.2147:

Taemek.1602:

SiNoS.2147:

Taemek.1602:

FluffyDoe.7539:

I think the what the OP means is that he wants ‘dungeon progression’ and not ‘gear progression’.

^ This.

As We stated earlier. Content progression can be implemented in many forms. It does not have to revovle around a stat beneficial increment. Anyone who thinks this is living in the past.

The goal obviously is trying to get the better gears. But after I have farmed enough AC tokens to get the whole armor sets and weapons I desire to use, I find myself wondering what’s next for me. I have no reason to try to farm other dungeons any longer, since they all give out same stats of armor sets, only with different look to it.

That quote is from the OP first paragraph. Its pretty obvious that its gear progression he wants. He clearly does not care about anything other than stats.

I would rather see a different form of character progression tbh.

They already have it in place to certain extent. We keep gaining xp even when 80 and we can buy every Skill point based ability there is.

Why not in a future expasion consider another form of character progression in the form of alternative advancement like other games have done in the past. EQ1 and 2 had a similiar system. There is other games with less drawn out versions of it and more casual.

It doesn’t matter if you are a casual player or a hard core player, with a Alternative Advancement system, your character is always progressing one way or another and doesn’t require a gear grind.

This way they can still add new content, without the mudflation of gear upgrades and still put character requirement flags in there so they have a meaningful and beneficial reason behind doing it.

This adds even more emphasis on doing old content, new content and participating in dynamic events, it gives a beneficial meaning to XP gain, all the time.

Its already in the game. They are called traits.

No, that is your standard characters leveling system, once you hit 80, it ends. I am talking about something that resembles how we can still currently buy Skill points.

A system like this would last years before any kind of gear upgrade would be needed.

The type of system your referring to im quite familar with and could infact be fully filled before you hit or as you hit max level in eq2. It enhanced your skill’s. That is no different than the trait system. As for gear theres no reason gear would ever need to be upgraded. To be honest though adding a secondary system on top of everything would seriously break content as currently a lot of people feel content is to easy.

Now im not saying its not a good idea, it is and works well in other games, but its not needed when we have traits (aa in other games) and honestly would be waisted here. People keep pointing to things that make there characters more powerful which would start the whole power/gear treadmill which like the aa honestly has no spot in this game given its fundamentally designed against those design elements.

Taemek.1602:

SiNoS.2147:

Taemek.1602:

FluffyDoe.7539:

I think the what the OP means is that he wants ‘dungeon progression’ and not ‘gear progression’.

^ This.

As We stated earlier. Content progression can be implemented in many forms. It does not have to revovle around a stat beneficial increment. Anyone who thinks this is living in the past.

The goal obviously is trying to get the better gears. But after I have farmed enough AC tokens to get the whole armor sets and weapons I desire to use, I find myself wondering what’s next for me. I have no reason to try to farm other dungeons any longer, since they all give out same stats of armor sets, only with different look to it.

That quote is from the OP first paragraph. Its pretty obvious that its gear progression he wants. He clearly does not care about anything other than stats.

I would rather see a different form of character progression tbh.

They already have it in place to certain extent. We keep gaining xp even when 80 and we can buy every Skill point based ability there is.

Why not in a future expasion consider another form of character progression in the form of alternative advancement like other games have done in the past. EQ1 and 2 had a similiar system. There is other games with less drawn out versions of it and more casual.

It doesn’t matter if you are a casual player or a hard core player, with a Alternative Advancement system, your character is always progressing one way or another and doesn’t require a gear grind.

This way they can still add new content, without the mudflation of gear upgrades and still put character requirement flags in there so they have a meaningful and beneficial reason behind doing it.

This adds even more emphasis on doing old content, new content and participating in dynamic events, it gives a beneficial meaning to XP gain, all the time.

Its already in the game. They are called traits.

Taemek.1602:

FluffyDoe.7539:

I think the what the OP means is that he wants ‘dungeon progression’ and not ‘gear progression’.

^ This.

As We stated earlier. Content progression can be implemented in many forms. It does not have to revovle around a stat beneficial increment. Anyone who thinks this is living in the past.

The goal obviously is trying to get the better gears. But after I have farmed enough AC tokens to get the whole armor sets and weapons I desire to use, I find myself wondering what’s next for me. I have no reason to try to farm other dungeons any longer, since they all give out same stats of armor sets, only with different look to it.

That quote is from the OP first paragraph. Its pretty obvious that its gear progression he wants. He clearly does not care about anything other than stats.

Taemek.1602:

Maskeus.2396:

I don’t get it. GW1 had a similar system except you got max armor well before you even touched the “endgame,” and I don’t recall anybody ever complaining about it.

^ This, which people keep on avoiding.

Ill touch on this. The reason people avoid it is two part.

1: For some reason most people refused to admit GW1 was a true MMO.
2: GW1 was better at taking you away from the fact you had max stat gear with its elite armor’s and the way they immersed you in the world.

Due to these two issues most people wont touch on this. My personal thoughs is honestly i liked GW1 elite armor better than GW2 Armor sets. Over all i personally for the most part am seriously disappointed with the armor designs in gw2. Granted it took an expansion before they had armor sets that i truly loved. So im holding out that there sets seriously improve. One example is the Halloween Mad King’s set. Biggest disappointment so far out of all the armor skins in the game in my eyes. They could have made that set so epic and amazing but it was such a flop.

Kermit.3601:

SiNoS.2147:

Kermit.3601:

Archmortal.1027:

So then the content isn’t geared for people that think the repair cost is a barrier to playing the game?

I realize this is a fine line, perhaps a slippery slope. Are you really that invested in this subject, or more interested in winning a forum debate? I’m curious, is a suggestion with the hope of encouraging people experience more challenging content, and even with the hopes encouraging Anet to develop more difficult content that misplaced?

The problem is if you take out repairs graveyard zerging will get even worse. Atleast right now they will hit a point where they must stop the dungeon because there naked with no coin left.

I think Nurvus.2891 had some good suggestions in curbing graveyard zerging. And truth is, in the case of graveyard zerging, I would like to see a solution that completely prevents it rather than one that just deters it.

While i agree it would be nice if it was gone the one fundamental design about GW2 is its made so EVERYONE can complete everything. In cases graveyard zerging is what it will take for your very bottom of the player base to get threw it. But in truth graveyard zerging doesent affect you unless your running in a pug thats just plain horrible. From personal experience i’ve yet to have one of these groups. What sets people apart is there skill. Sure they may be able to do it but they wont finish it any where near as fast as you and you will come out ahead at the end of the dungeon.

Kermit.3601:

Archmortal.1027:

So then the content isn’t geared for people that think the repair cost is a barrier to playing the game?

I realize this is a fine line, perhaps a slippery slope. Are you really that invested in this subject, or more interested in winning a forum debate? I’m curious, is a suggestion with the hope of encouraging people experience more challenging content, and even with the hopes encouraging Anet to develop more difficult content that misplaced?

The problem is if you take out repairs graveyard zerging will get even worse. Atleast right now they will hit a point where they must stop the dungeon because there naked with no coin left.