Guild Wars 2

I just tried a condi version of the build I had above (just replacing sword with scepter and cleric with settler) and it works indeed better. The damage from sc. 3 is very correct and having range means more hits. Also, I generate a bit more clones which is normally a weak point of the build. Since I already use pistol and duelist’s discipline, I assume whenever they fix the bleeding, it will be even better. I don’t see myself using the torch, because the stealth is not nearly as valuable as interrupts.

@Messiah: Wouldn’t shattered strength help in your build by providing a bit more might to share?

StickerHappy.8052:

Oops stack is a wrong term and I used a wrong sentence, You can pass by veil 2 times, have it linger long would let you walk at it 3 times, so it would be like getting A free PU in totality of stealth Uptime. (only with veil)

So you mean passing once, then the stealth stops and you pass it again? The problem with that is that you’re visible in between + you cannot move in the meanwhile since you have to be close to veil. The fact is that PU mesmer rarely use veil because other utilities are better. The only real use of veil is WvW, and here again, it is too short without PU.

StickerHappy.8052:

Interrupt is very strong, Coming from me who made the basis of the 4/4/6 Interrupt build. Shatter does not even have the efficiency of disabling and CCing people, stopping resses or stomps.

Yes, interrupt builds are rather strong, probably second after the shatter builds. Few of my suggested changes really affect interrupt builds except the mantra change which is more QoL than really game-changing since you can still adjust the cooldown.

Signet of I insta Cast sounds good on paper, but guess what, traited you have another on demand Distortion, make it with the Illu Inspiration trait.

Valid comment.

You can already pass veil 2 times, effectively stacking stealth 2 times, raise the duration and you get 3-4 times, + PU? I don’t think so.

Does veil stack? I thought it behave like temporal curtain. As for PU, this suggestion assumed PU was also reduced.

Increasing the boon from BI is riduculous, if this was pre patch I would agree, Interrupting is brain dead now. Interrupt an AA? proc 5 effects. (assuming traited)

This was a minor comment because I am currently using this in a boonshare build and I thought the duration of most boons is too low.

2 seconds of burning on Staff is OP, how? IE is now baseline. And we now have chaotic persistence. 5 boons which we can easily get gives you 15% condi duration, + smoldering sigils and Balth? 3.5-4 second burns on AA. Even if its RNG, IE will proc it frequently.

Torch burn? Same reasoning as above, IE is baseline, affects torch. On top of all the condis we can give.

Even with full burn duration and full condi damage, the mage is weaker than our other offensive phantasms. I agree that mesmer is already fairly strong with its confusion, and adding burning on top may be too strong… But on its own, the torch mage seems mostly a shatter fodder…

StickerHappy.8052:

Buffs are needed? We just got buffed by a lot, and we need more? for what? We have a lot of build diversity, The problem is the Elitist faction of the mesmer community do not wanna run anything besides Shatter. And everything with PU is cancer. <—- This mentality.

I am playing many different builds. And the reason people run only shatter is not because they are stubborn, but because it is the most efficient. Sure, you can run bunker, you can run power/condi interrupt, you can run phantasm builds etc… But while you can have fun doing it, you don’t reach the same efficiency.
I don’t think there is anything wrong in trying to make different playstyles as efficient. I don’t think any of my suggestions would make the mesmer OP.
If you disagree, please point at specific suggestions and explain to me why they are too strong.

http://intothemists.com/calc/?build=-RFRZ;1ZUF61I7-WV71;9;4TUV;0236156147;4UBo620;0Uwl6Uwl63y

It has great sustain. It does not do as much support as a guardian but thanks to interrupt, blinding and a bit of boon stripping from sword AA, it does also debuff the enemy efficiently, doing a great job in a team fight.

I suggest a few nerfs and many buffs where needed, to ensure build diversity (currently we only have strong power shatter and condi shatter builds in PvP, no good defensive, no good support, no good interrupt).
I don’t claim the list is accurate, so if you disagree with some points or have addition please tell me. I will keep the list updated with all the changes that are suggested.

I don’t know if you’re implying that I’m a non-mesmer. I main mesmer and I am fairly active on this forum. Most of the changes I suggest are buffs and not nerfs. Finally, those suggestions are “known issues” and that is the point of this thread: summarizing them all in the same place for better readability.

reserved in case things blow out of proportions.

Utility skills

Mantras
Mantras have been amazing while the recharge was bugged. Maybe the background recharge should be the proper way to deal with it (with tuned cooldowns). It still prevents too many uses in a short time but fixes the problem when only one charge is remaining.

• Mantra of Concentration: stability is too short. 5s would sound appropriate.
• Fix the bug where « Mender’s Purity » disturbs the use of « Mantra of Resolve »

Signets

• Signet of inspiration could be instant skill. It would be a huge QoL improvement.
• Signet of illusions is probably not very much used for its passive, this will be addressed later.

Manipulation

• Arcane thievery is extremely unreliable and has a too high CD for only 3 condi/boons.
• Mass invisibility should not reveal you if you reflect a projectile thanks to the manipulation trait.

Glamour

• Veil needs a longer base duration.

Illusions
The 2 utility phantasms just don’t live long enough to be of any use in PvP. Even with trait and signet, they die too fast, especially since they are meant to be use in team fights (as they help allies).
I think the utility phantasms need to have the same HP as in PvE. For phantasmal defender, this is even worse as it takes the damage from allies. To be of any use, it should halve the damage taken by allies but not redirect it to itself.
Also, 1.5s cast time is really too long for a phantasm which will die in 2s.

Traits
The damage multipliers (fragility and harmonious mantras, but also from gear/food) should also apply to illusions. This would really help PvE mesmers.

Domination

• Confounding suggestion (CS) is too strong right now. A first possibility is for the iCD should be increased but changed to per-target. Another possibility is to just remove this trait since it rewards cheesy playing and eclipse the on-interrupt trait.
• Rending Shatter: not very much used, probably partly because of competition with CS but also because of the already high amount of vulnerability we have available in domination. Maybe another form of debuff?

Dueling

• Critical Infusion: considering vigor was nerfed and boon duration has almost disappeared the iCD should also be reduced to 5s.
• Duelist’s Discipline: please fix the bug so that the phantasm does proc the bleeding from this trait.
• Harmonious mantras: the nerf to the damage multiplier was unjustified. The problem was mostly CS, not the mantras. This only hurts PvE, it does not really balance PvP.
• Mistrust: not so strong, especially for a GM. The confusion could be buffed. I also had an idea some time ago which I think would be very interesting:
  https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/mesmer/Suggestion-Meaningful-condi-interrupt/first

Chaos

• Chaotic Dampening: 2% recharge reduction is too low. It should be increased to 3% at least to be on par with the old flat 20% reduced.
• Chaotic Transference: does it need to compete with chaotic dampening.
• Chaotic Interruption: the boon duration could be increased to reward interrupts and compete with Bountiful Disillusionment
• Prismatic Understanding: just too long stealth. Going back to 33% or 50% would still be a good trait.

Inspiration

• Persisting Images and Protected Phantasms: As said, we have to invest a lot in phantasm to make them live, and yet, they still die easily. Maybe merge those traits? Maybe increase the HP more than 20%?
• Restorative Illusions: should be AOE cleanse/healing. Else, it does not belong in the « inspiration » line.
• Temporal enchanter: should apply the trait effect not only on creation but for everyone crossing their area (in particular for veil, but valid for all).

Illusion

• The Pledge: favors stealth too much while the torch is also used for its condition application. I think here, a flat CD reduction is really the best idea.
• Maim the Disillusioned: torment is a very weak condition, I don’t see how OP it was with 2 stacks. If not 2 stacks, then at least longer duration. Mesmer is really bad at applying torment now.
• Master of Misdirection: as confusion is our main condition, some people suggested that this 33% should not count towards the 100% condition cap.

Hi

I will be trying the same thing as I have done for the chronomancer and keep an updated list of mesmer issues and how we think they could be fixed. I have started a short list which mostly reflects my own opinion. I would appreciate the input from all of you to reach a general consensus of what all the community thinks.

Weapon skills
Overall, mesmers have good weapons, all having their niche. But a few changes would be great QoL improvements without making the mesmer OP.

Staff
Amazing weapon, our most polyvalent one.

• Winds of Chaos: while staff is not really meant to be a damaging weapon, the staff burning did not get a buff when burning was changed to intensity stacking. Maybe 2s burning would be good.
• Phantasmal Warlock: maybe some conditions on this skill?

Greatsword
Good weapon, nothing to change.

Sword
Very good main-hand weapon overall and best off-hand phantasm in terms of damage. Still a few problems:

• « Illusionary Leap » is not very reliable.
• « Illusionary Riposte » is too slow to riposte.

Scepter
Only real problem is the AA. It feels a bit sluggish except when using malicious sorcery. It does not apply enough conditions, so scepter clones are worthless. Also, in would be a huge help in PvE if the clone would not overwrite the phantasm.

Focus
Good utilities. Temporal curtain definitely needs to be able to add swiftness even if you already have some from other skills.
The phantasm uses an axe so should not proc fencer’s finesse

Pistol
Good weapon.

Torch
Same as staff: the burning of the mage seems underwhelming. 2 stacks of burning would probably not be overkill.

Spear
Good weapon.

Trident
Absolutely underwhelming weapon. It just does not apply any damage.

• Siren’s call is very bad. It is similar to staff AA, but barely applies any condition. Considering the weapon does not have any other source of damage outside of the phantasm, this is very problematic.
• Maybe blinding tide would be nice with an added offensive effect (confusion). As said, this weapon needs additional offensive skills.

trooper.2650:

One more think to munch on.
Have you thought that maybe, the best bunker mesmer will not be a chrono, but we already have it right here right now?

I think dueling-chaos-inspiration is currently our best bunker. I am currently trying a version of that which I think has potential and I will soon post it in the forum. It is an interrupt-bunker.
If the condi cleanse remained on wells, I think the chrono bunker would have been as good or even better. Ideally, I would say complementary. But without it, I am leaning towards the core mesmer bunker being best.

And as far as I know, the shatter is not AOE. It heals and cleanse yourself only. I have been complaining about it, since you would expect ally support in the “inspiration” line.

You may not be aware but currently, the well trait has been changed and does not cleanse conditions. Because of that you do not have any AOE cleanse except for your heal.

I would recommend you to go and look at
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/mesmer/bunker-chrono-open-discussion-VIDEO/first
since we did work on a chronomancer bunker/support.

“mesmer is strong and need a weakness”
yes, the current burst shatter and to some extent condi shatter are strong and do not need help. But they would not take the wells for the condi cleanse anyway. The 2 alternative traits are too strong and they would need to stand on point for 3s which is not very much the playstyle.

But this trait allowed build diversity. In particular, more defensive playstyles, where staying on point to get the burst of the well made sense, need condi cleanse. This is really the playstyle which feels the most natural with wells. Inspiration is good enough for a roamer mesmer, not for a defensive/bunker mesmer except if running mantras.

So by removing the condi cleanse, you don’t help nor punish the power/condi shatter builds, but you punish a build which could have been viable.

So I maintain my suggestion: keep the condi cleanse on wells and make “improved alacrity” all about party-wide alacrity.

On the other hand, plague blast is awesome.

Honestly, RI isn’t enough. As I wrote in the bunker discussion, RI is possibly the only trait in “inspiration” which does not provide any team support. Also, with shatter + mender’s purity, we clean a total of 6 conditions, some on fairly high CD. Compare to the 11 of the guardian on a 20-30s CD for most. So we are forced to go to a dedicated cleanse.

So yes, I think the condition cleanse was very good on wells and helped create a space for wells in the crowded utility bar of mesmers. The shared alacrity should have been on the “improved alacrity” since I still believe this trait is lackluster.

Ok, digging this thread a bit.
I have played a bit bunker guardian recently, and I enjoyed it quite a bit. I cannot conclusively say that it was better than my chronomancer bunker, but definitely easier.

I also start to wonder if wells are really the way to go… I mostly like well of eternity for the massive heal to allies while still being strong for yourself, and well of action for many reasons including stomping/rezzing. Also, with wells cleaning 2 condis, well of eternity cleaned 4 condis AOE every 20s (less with alacrity) and well of action 2 more every 30s. This was enough for me to consider having no dedicated condi cleanse utility. Now that this has been removed, I have only 2 AOE condi cleanse (on healing) which is far from enough.
I now wonder if we should not get back to mantras. The mantra heal provides AOE heal during preparing + AOE heal with Healing Prism although with high ICD. It also adds AOE cleanse at each use. But this would bring us back into the usual dueling-chaos-insp, and leave no place for chronomancer. So I am a bit lost right now.

I also want to complain about a few things:

• no form of condi cleanse in the wells is sad. I understand they don’t want to overlap with null field, but this really hurts the wells use.
• In general, mesmer has really trouble with its utilities. We have many useful utilities but because we have very little condition cleanse from traits, we are forced to invest into 1 dedicated skill. And we also almost always need to invest in a dedicated stun break (blink). At best, we have one free slot. Most mesmers running portal simply do not bring any condi cleanse. That is really hurting. Compare that to the guardian who brings 4 very useful shouts and gets a stun break and massive amounts of condi cleanse for free.
• “Restorative Illusions” just doesn’t fit the “inspiration” line because it is selfish. I don’t think it would be OP if it was instead an AOE heal and cleanse.

A portal is always useful, even solo, but I personally feel like an extra utility is better (decoy or Mirror image or Mantra of distraction are always welcome). I start enjoying my portal when I play with at least 1 friend with me.

When you steal a necro, you get very long fear which can really make life difficult for your target. Else, necro are a light armor but very high health pool, and since the patch often run fairly tanky (celestial/soldier). I think if you expect a fast kill, you are not in the right spot.

As said, LF is no problem in PvE or WvW. During BWE, I tried a fairly tanky frontline GS-shouts build and basically jumping in the middle of the fight in mid, and LF was not a problem already. Sure, 1v1, LF was regenerating VERY slow, but that is the whole point of the specialization: “scalable defense”. Necro is already fairly strong in 1v1, what we lacked was team fight abilities and sustain, and reaper provides just that.

I almost feel with the changes reaper will be too strong in terms of LF…

Also, now conditions stack above 25 (except vuln) and poison/burning also stack in intensity. So conditions now make a bit more sense in PvE than before (although still not as strong as direct damage), and burning is quite OP, so you may get yourself burnt to death by guardians and engis.

Also distorsion prevents point capture in PvP, not blurred frenzy.

I think they try to add specific weaknesses to professions, like necro and CC, engineer/mesmers and conditions etc…

The bleedings come from iDuelist mostly, the staff is a (small) bonus.

Lyger.5429:

Does anyone know if chill scales from condi or power?

Condi

nekretaal.6485:

This is the best profession forum.

The number crunchers here will let everybody know right away whether the GS numbers are correct, tow low, or too high.

But it looks like most of the reaper only concerns were at least addressed.

Kudo’s for communication.

The number crushers say that now reaper with GS will be better than base necro with dagger for PvE. Not much can be said about PvP since it is hard to take into account with numbers the possibility to avoid damage.

I strongly agree with a 3s ICD on iRev instead of the 2 clones restriction.
And for the wells, I really liked the condition cleanse, because mesmers need it, especially since wells pushes us on a less mobile playstyle. If people found it underwhelming, as I mentioned in the big feedback post, some added boon stripping fit perfectly the duality of chronomancer and its wells.

Nooo…
Illusionary Reversion + All’s Well that Ends Well = My bunker is dead…

Overall, thanks a lot Robert Gee, this seems to address most if not all of the problems I felt with the reaper. I still think that the reaper shroud could have gotten some increased damage or resilient to make up for the fact it is melee, but I’m already looking forward to the next BWE

Knaifhogg.5964:

Any thoughts on Condi side of things? Chill dmg scaling, poison dmg overall (could it be stronger?) and on RS4, Dhuumfire being totally better in RS compared to DS, and Lingering Curse telling you to “only use scepter” to maximize bleeds?

Chill damage has been doubled.

If the main reason you abstain from shatter and interrupts in your ping, I can tell you I play with a 300ms ping with a FPS ranging from 10 to 15. And that definitely is a burden, but it does not prevent anything. You can play easily a condi-shatter because it is very forgiving with a rabid armor. And you can also play glass cannon build, although it is sometimes frustrating. I am currently on a glass cannon interrupt build. With CS, this is still awfully forgiving

Now I can understand the mindset of “non-shatter” because I had it in the beginning. After leveling in PvE, you know how weak shatters are and how strong a living phantasm is. But that’s the twist, by reducing the amount of HP of your phantasm in PvP (they can have different PvE/PvP balance when they want…) a-net clearly made them unreliable for sustained damage. I spent most of my early PvP days trying to make a phantasm build work despite what people were saying. But progressively, I learned to enjoy some shatters for peak damage or for utilities (F3/F4). And before I knew it, I was playing a shatter style on my phantasm build.

I think the switch was on roaming WvW, when I was using my clone-death build but spent my time shattering and I realized I might as well put a shatter build.

As for interrupts, whether you want it or not, all your weapon sets have interrupts skills, you may as well use them.

They have said for some time they don’t want “on-death” traits anymore. They want us to “actively manage” our illusions. If they died before being shattered, it’s our fault.

Let’s just hope they are not elementalist zombies…

I think looking at the revenant mace is a good idea for comparison. Torment is about as strong as bleeding (stronger if enemy moving, weaker if not).

mace AA: damage: 1.35, 2 torment (4s), 1 poison (3s); 1.25s tooltip cast time
scepter AA: damage: 1.2, 2 bleedings (5s), 1 poison (4s); 1.5s tooltip cast time (2.4s real)

mace 2: damage 0.25 × 4, 1 burning (4s) x4 (4 pulses)
scepter 2: damage 0.7, 3 bleedings (7s)

mace 3: damage 1.0, 3 torment (6s)
scepter 3: damage 1.0 + 8% per condi

So overall, AA is fairly identical. But the 3 bleedings are less than each pulse of burning for nr2, and the 3 has conditions also. So yes, we need more burst on our 2 and 3, but nothing wrong with having a bit more damage on AA too.

Could chrono save you by going back before the apocalypse and prevent it from happening?

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/6/6e/Touched_by_His_Noodly_Appendage.jpg

That’s how hard I hit with my GS…

Honestly, I played both reaper and chronomancer and I ended up spending more time with my reaper (I am mesmer main!). The numbers need tweaking, but the class is insane fun!

Hot Boy.7138:

Silverkey.2078:

Yes, you “want” a buff because you think sword should do everything. It seems you haven’t realized the point of having different weapons per class.

A lot of people in this thread are really nasty in their attitudes and in the tone in which they’re typing.

You can agree.
You don’t have to agree.
Either is fine, but the bad attitudes and nasty tones in which some you respond are unnecessary.

Try to keep a cool head and try not be so emotional. This is a change that’s important to me, but at the same time it’s not something I would feel the need to lash out at anyone about.

I’m not looking for anyone’s approval.
I’m trying to get the devs to take notice to something I feel is an issue.

I’m not new to the game and I’m not an amateur player, I’ve been playing mesmer as a main since beta. I have a pretty good idea of what I’m talking about and I have a thorough understanding of the class and all game mechanics.

I’m a very peaceful person, not looking for conflicts usually. But I don’t like YOUR attitude. You are not open to discussion, and you bump your subject all the time because you think people HAVE to agree with you. That is why I am more aggressive, not because of what you are asking.

You say the sword needs a buff, and explain your reason. Most people agree skill 3 is clumsy, but this is something that have been mentioned many times. On the other hand, people disagree with your other arguments (I mean seriously? applying MtD to the sword??) and also suggest you ideas and the only thing you answer is “try it yourself you’ll see it sucks”. But people have tried it, and it does not if used in the right context. You can weapon swap, but for some reason you’re too stubborn to equip other weapons.

There is only one weapon which does not work in melee: the greatsword. All the other actually work better in melee: the scepter AA is faster in melee, the staff is better in melee because you can use chaos storm on your enemies and you at the same time + phase retreat for some chaos armor. So even if you had good reasons to want to stay in melee (for example defending a point), you can use all other weapons but the great sword.

When you start a discussion, you have to be prepared to receive opinions and to listen to them and try to understand them instead of just discarding them.

If you do that, I will not get somewhat aggressive.
Sorry for that

Hot Boy.7138:

OminousClouds.4517:

Mainhand sword needs a buff?
You’re kidding right?

Yeah, I am serious. If you scroll up, you will see that I thoroughly explained why it needs a buff.

Yes, you “want” a buff because you think sword should do everything. It seems you haven’t realized the point of having different weapons per class.

I think thieves are worse. The other ones, you know they have only 1 escape. Thieves sometimes looks like they can infinitely escape… But yes, stomping is important, especially if one of your teammate is downed!

I do indeed think that could make more sense as it would allow longer slow uptime to keep the increased crit chance while not being too OP.

Since mesmer/chrono is the only class which can slow currently, I guess this condition should be balanced together with chronomancer.

I am not sure I understand correct: when you activate the upkeep skill, you usually can click again to stop the upkeep. But here it seems after the upkeep you have access to the offensive ability, so you cannot stop the upkeep without using the active and putting it on cooldown… Odd

I would have at least 1 of the 2 bunker running “Bountiful Disillusionment” instead of “Chaotic Interruption” just to have some stability. Also this same non-lockdown could run the well condi cleanse.

I really don’t know how viable are condi with those ele everywhere (though I agree their sustain is better)…

With HoT approaching and guild team becoming a thing, I was wondering what a guild team for OMFG for example (so 5 mesmers) could look like to be efficient. It seems to me that most efficient teams always run about approximately the same role composition:

• 2 roamer (at least one with stealth)
• 1 bunker (mostly defensive and support)
• 2 support (defensive support but still some damage)

For example, in the last WTS, TCG had thief+mesmer roamer, a bunker warrior and support ele and engi. ONG had war/thief/medi-guard as offensive members, a bunker guard and support ele (more offensive comp). Abjured had roamer thief, bunker-ish necro and engi and 2xEle for support (more supporty team comp). I don’t know if you agree with my role assignment here.

Anyway, for a 5 mesmer teams I would see:

• 2 “usual” burst mesmers/chrono (including at least one PU)
• 1 chronobunker

I am not sure about the “supporty” roles. I think a boonshare mesmer (duel, chaos, insp) is nice. A clockdown build with signet of inspiration could be very useful to provide might to the team and mess up the enemy team fights.

Any opinion?

Actually for rangers it is also on successful evade and the sword has some evades also. The big difference is that vigor would stack (its a boon). So if you evade a rapid fire for example, you would get maybe 25s vigor immediately. Mirror does not stack, you just get your 1.5s.

MailMail.6534:

tobascodagama.2961:

Is this a joke?

No. I actually used pDisenchanter in my clone death build from time to time… The point of such a build was letting clones auto attack and die without shattering them. If such a build still existed, pAvenger would be a great addition I imagine. pMage has always needed buffs. It wasn’t the bouncing effect that made it bad. It was his velocity of attack, how easy it missed and the subpar effect it gave.

But why was the bouncing beneficial then?

I think something more constructive would be to gather all feedbacks in an updated post like I have tried to do in the mesmer sub forum

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/mesmer/Summary-Updated-chronomancer-feedback/first

Here, most people have written their own feedback on different thread, but that makes it difficult to go through everything.

Flash news: those phantasms are awful in bunker builds!

That was something which felt even more obvious with reaper. I really agree it should be baseline. It’s not like if necro is OP right…

It is OP because
1) you can run with DE also, as well as persistence of memory.
2) Even without: generate 2 phantasms and 1 clone, and you can shatter twice in a row, then mirror image and you have a 3rd shatter. All of this happened in 4s. Since you have F5, you can do that during the rift and still have all your skills available at the end.

If you don’t want to use F5 but have persistence of memory, all your phantasms are already ready to use anyway, just need a signet to reset your 4 shatters.

CP + iRev is not OP for a phantasm build, it is OP for permanent shattering.