Guild Wars 2

Sigmoid.7082:

Silverkey.2078:

Later in the stream Jebro is playing much better, but he’s still not a necro expert as far as I understand.

Got a ime link? Only saw a snip of his and I had to head out. Grouch is so bad at necro it pains me to see it…

He starts at http://www.twitch.tv/guildwars2/v/9763687?t=5h47m13s
but the actual fighting starts at http://www.twitch.tv/guildwars2/v/9763687?t=5h54m03s

Later in the stream Jebro is playing much better, but he’s still not a necro expert as far as I understand.

I am not so pessimistic (I’m an eternal optimist). They did a massive change of the traits. That was meant to prepare for the expansion (introducing the elite specialization) + makes balance easier. While not everything worked so well, I think this was an amazing change, and the build variety has been opened on most classes.

Now, they won’t change much until the expansion because they want to first know how things interact with the elite specs. Once the expansion comes, they will be able to fine tune the traits again. On the other hand, I would not expect any new big trait shake up in a foreseeable future, so I fear some clunky traits competitions (like all the curse line) will probably remain. But I see a Dhuumfire fix as very possible.

I am also optimistic that a big weapon/skill overhaul is still possible. That is the part they almost haven’t changed since launch. This is also one of the easiest things to balance: if a weapon is not meta in any game mode, it needs to be improved! It is easier than for example improving wells like another thread is asking, because wells are already meta in WvW so you buffing it could make it OP.
So easy situation for necros:

• scepter needs to be fixed
• axe needs to be fixed
• corruption needs to be fixed

because those are hardly used anywhere.

Bhawb.7408:

More high quality “balance” from ANet. Greatsword is as slow as Guardian Hammer with a fraction of the damage, they loaded ICDs onto anything that might have been useful, Rise! is still garbage, good stuff all around, nothing new to see here just Necro as usual.

This is actually a good comparison. Hammer has indeed higher damage coefficients (although it somewhat depends if the enemy remains in the symbol), not to mention hammer has both heavy CC and a some support.
And don’t go and claim that necro has a higher survivability than a guardian!!!

MailMail.6534:

I’m not surprised at all in Gravity Well getting nerfed to not have any sense of gravity. Lol There were many ways they could have balanced this elite. They took the cheap easy route. I’d take Well of Calamity (which is like the very nice MoP version of wells) over Gravity Well at this point… And this is why I haven’t pre-purchased HoT.

In a sense, this well is more in-line with the others: pulsing effect for 1 side (ally stability in this case) and then opposite effect at the end of the well for the other side (float here). Which is also why this is not an elite skill but worth of a 30-40s CD utility.

Well of Precognition should give distortion instead of blur. They obviously don’t want this to synergize with our other distorting traits. Shame. That being said, can you say hello to kill-shot warriors being paired with Chronomancers?! The plays with this can potentially be insane.

I disagree. The blur is our only way to evade while still contesting the point. Also blur is an evade so all on-evade traits still synergies. The only missing synergy is the distorsion-sharing but since this is already AOE…

Well of Eternity I’d honestly prefer the self-healing be changed to pulsing. That could possibly be a great AOE healer for your team in conjunction with Mantras. Come on, they keep teasing us with supportive capabilities. I guess I won’t complain too much since we’re as supportive as we’ve ever been.

I think it’s a good heal like this. I like having a bit of a burst heal in the beginning.

Wells look to be under-WELL-ming to me at this point overall. I was most looking forward to Gravity Well, but Time Warp outshines it by so SO much considering they do very similar things both in theory and practice. I’ll just happily continue being a glamour fanboy. See you guys during the beta! haha

I actually think wells have their niche. I am looking forward to use them in my bunker build and more offensively in WvW. I only thing the elite is pointless.

I like the idea of 1 big pull in the first pulse. It allows counterplay (while the 3 consecutive pulls were only possible to avoid with blink or high stability stun break). I I could vote, I would vote for that one

The CC was obviously OP (people have rarely that much stability on them) but isn’t the point of an elite to be OP for a little while? I mean this lasted only 3s on 120s, it’s a very short game-changer…

All is in the title. Currently mesmers contribute mostly by veil, time-warp and noll field (which is already fairly strong). They are also good at picking enemies on the side and finishing them. Could wells (or other chronomancer stuff) be a worthy addition to their kitten nal.

My 2 cents:

• “Time Marches On” is already a justification for chronomancer in itself.
• “Well of Calamity” seems like an amazing zerg well: high AOE damage + pulsing weakness and cripple: yummy
• “Well of Precognition” potentially useful to pass the blocks and gain some invulnerability, but seems like a high CD…
• “Well of Recall” I don’t know how strong could alacrity be for frontliners, but I would say “meh”
• “Well of Action”: a baby time-warp, always useful.
• “Gravity Well” AOE stability is nicer than ever, but without the pulsing CC, can it really beat time warp??

Final note: 2 condi cleanse on wells can also be a nice bonus.

I would agree with that if TimeWarp was not so awesome. Plus, a boonshare running with bountiful disillusionment (which is quite frequent) is almost guaranteed to share stability.

No need for the traits, the wiki is up-to-date I believe + has the chat-code if we want to check in-game.

For the elite, sure it has a rather low CD, but it really seems near-pointless. I think Time Warp is the elite the chronomancer should have gotten if it was not already in mesmer core (but I’m happy it is in mesmer core), especially considering the synergy with slow.

Gravity well nerf!!!
A bit less CC in our zerg
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/mesmer/Chronomancer-changes/first

Hi guys
I just watched the stream from ANEt (http://www.twitch.tv/guildwars2/v/9763687) and towards the end, Jebro is playing chronomancer. There are a few changes in particular, a very painful one is that “Gravity Well” has lost its pulsing CC… The only CC left is the float at the end (see after 6h10m50).

With the insane burning there is atm epidemic has never been as strong!
Also, reaper may end up stronger at condition application.

The damage coefs of sword and shroud seem like they haven’t changed… Sad

I don’t think DD ele and condi mesmers are comparable. Condi mesmer are nowhere near as durable as DD ele but burstier. Also condi mesmer can still have portal.

For me it comes down to the fact that I enjoy condi more, because I love the concept of both confusion and torment. I can play it while being reasonable effective and I know my shortcomings come from me more than from my build.

In competitive play it is less effective because there are more often 3v3 or 4v4, but in average tier pug, condi is a very reasonable alternative.

Putting a condi transfer on a AA is kinda broken. Plus necros have already a very good amount of condi transfer/cleanse. I think that is not the best way to fix Dhuumfire.
This being said, Dhuumfire is actually fairly decent with the reaper thanks to the attack speed.

@Embolism
I think the phantasm HP reduction in PvP is just too severe to the point it makes phantasm unviable outside of the first volley. We’ll have to see how chronophantasma ends up performing, but if it still does not allow active phantasm build to exist in PvP, we could ask for a HP buff.
As I mentioned here
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/mesmer/PvP-In-The-Lab-Phantasm-Mesmer/first#post5348282
I think the utility phantasms need a HP buff anyway, because they are just not used (because unusable) as far as I know in decent-tier PvP.

AlphatheWhite.9351:

Do we have a source on that? The wording in the wiki (“when you shatter, do x”) implies you get the effect once when you cast a shatter (like Blinding Dissipation), versus effects you get per illusion shattered (“your shatters do x”, like Maim the Disillusioned and Illusionary Retribution). That being the case, it would only be 1s per shatter.
4s per shatter would change things, though, maybe enough to make it worthwhile.

I was surprised also, the phrasing made me think that. But someone pointed to me that in the POI, you clearly see the alacrity lasting the time you would expect from 1s/illusion.
Honestly, without that, alacrity is weak and the trait is garbage (“yeah, 0.33s more of 66% less CD…, that’s a whooping 0.2s lower CD”)

That was me.

Now that’s fun

I’m actually not confident that this change isn’t a PvE buff to the trait, as timing your phantasm attacks right could short-cut to faster phantasm attacks at the time you shatter. An iDuelist with Phantasmal Haste has 6.6s between attacks. Shattering the moment the iDuelist finishes a volley (about 1.5s, right?) gives you a 1s delay before it fires again, cutting the total delay between attacks from 6.6s to 2.5s if timed perfectly. The actual gain will be all over the place, especially since the duelists are probably not synced, but as long as you don’t interrupt a volley with your shatter, you’ll gain time on average across your duelists.

Well I perfectly agree with your analysis. And that is precisely why I think the current form of the trait does not fix the burst problem, it merely delays it. This adds a bit of counterplay as the opponent knows he needs to burst the phantasm immediately, but does not fix the core. Then again, in PvP, the second volley would rarely happen otherwise, so at least with this, there is a clear benefit from shattering.

AlphatheWhite.9351:

All’s Well that Ends Well: Depends how much I use wells. I really just don’t know. 2 condis per well could be great for group situations. Or it might be trash.

It would be nice for an alacrity-bunker build

Improved Alacrity: Honestly, at the durations they are giving it, Alacrity sucks. Like, really bad. If they gave more uptime it might be better, but as it is it’s just not much more than a pleasant little bonus. And adding 1/3rd of that pleasant little bonus just isn’t worth a master trait.

The only thing which seem useful is the alacrity on shatter which it seems is 1s per illusion. In that case, this is potentially powerful. But the non-shatter alacrity seems currently low (we’ll have to see how the phantasm does).

Chronophantasma: Glorious. I can accept the 1s daze as an alternative to putting respawned phantasms on the same attack timer as their predecessors in keeping players from shatter+3-phantasm volley.

Someone in the forum suggested a better (I think) solution which is essentially on the first shatter, the phantasm produces a clone which is shattered. This would mean the rotation of each phantasm is preserved (no insane burst just after shatter), they stay at range, but you still get the shatter.

Derenek.8931:

Domination dueling illusions for Pistol, sacrifice invisibility, gain distortion
Or
Chaos dueling Illusions For torch, lose distortion gain invisibility

Unfortunately both distorsion and invisibility make you decap…

Power is burstier (you can 100-0 most glass cannon)
Condi is less bursty but more defensive
Power is meta
Condi is still fairly effective

It will depend a lot on the role the chronomancer will take. Depending on how useful alacrity is, “Improved Alacrity” may be stronger than “Danger Time”. “Chronophantasma” can also give a strong boost to DPS, which may be better than “Lost Time”. If this is so, assassin will remain better. Else, Danger Time + Lost time may dispense the need for more crits.

I was trying a bunker build in preparation for the beta ( https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/mesmer/Chrono-bunker/first ) and I found that in general, the “utility” phantasm just don’t work in PvP because they die too fast. In general I will say most phantasms don’t work in PvP outside of their first burst, but it is more annoying for the utility phantasms as to really be worth it instead of a similar non-phantasm utility, they would need to run at least twice. This is especially true considering they are meant as utilities for the whole team, but they don’t stand a chance in team fight!

So I think keeping low HP for damage phantasm makes sense, but utility phantasm (iDefender and iDisenchanter) would need the same number of HP in PvP as in PvE.
What do you think?

To prepare myself for the beta, I did try a non-chronomancy boonshare bunker. Am I the only one who feels that iDefender is absolutely pointless (life expectancy borderline 0)? Not to mention why is he going towards the enemy??? I guess with signet of illusion and protected phantasm it may be different (1s longer life expectancy?) but currently, it really didn’t work.

But you have to acknowledge that the numbers I got are ALL round and their ratios are all EXACTLY consistent with the tooltip. I believe that is a strong indication.
We will obviously know for sure soon enough + they may have already changed since the demo (which I really hope, for me GS AA can be less damaging that dagger AA but gravedigger should be more damaging that dagger AA).

I calculated 2.0 and the whole series I calculated is
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/necromancer/Reaper-Auto-Wiki-Incorrect/page/2#post5304397

The coefficients are always more or less “round” damages, so the ones I calculated make more sense.

This being said, as you mentioned damage is
power*coefficient*average weapon damage/enemy armor

so to compare 2 skills on 2 different weapons, you can leave out power and armor as they are the same. So you should compare coefficient*average weapon strength

So when comparing the damage coefficients of dagger AA with GS AA and gravedigger, you should count in the 10% more damage of the GS.

Sigmoid.7082:

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

Khristophoros.7194:

WEXXES.2378:

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

Because when a target is below 50% health, Gravedigger has no cooldown. And it is still lower DPS than dagger auto.

Dagger auto chain takes almost 2 seconds (including the after delay to start another attack) of your DPS time. In this time, you can do a base amount of almost 940.

Gravedigger takes almost the same amount of time and deals 1,520 (Probably more like 1,200ish base) and has no CD hitting targets lower than 50% HP and hits 1 more target than dagger does.

I’m almost positive gravedigger will have better power scaling.

Just to be clear, according to the other thread where they said they had the coefficients, Gravedigger has a 2.0 coefficient.

The dagger chain is a total of 3.0 coefficient over the whole chain and supposedly it takes only 2.1 seconds to do the whole chain.

Something to keep in mind is the cast times in game are always wrong and the wiki is often wrong. I’ve tested weapons before and they didn’t match the wiki’s numbers. I will test all these things myself during the BWE.

Dagger has 2.8 coefficients per chain over 2.1 seconds. Gravedigger is 2.0 coefficients/chain over ~1.8 seconds. Greatsword does 10% more damage on average than dagger, so we’ll factor that as a 2.2 coefficient to keep the comparison on actual damage output accurate.

2.8/2.1=1.333 coefficients/second. 2.2/1.8=1.222 coefficients/second.

Against one or two targets, you’re better off dagger autoing than gravedigger spam. You just do more damage.

The coeff is actually 1.9 for grave digger and you can’t just say GS goes 10% more damage. Because the number was reverse engineered the coeffs we have already factor in gs’s higher weapon damage anyways.

The only time that works is when you are using them to preform the same skill I.e. using shroud skills. Shroud skills used with a GS will do more damage than shroud skills used with a dagger+offhand.

I really think the coef is 2.0 and you still need to multiply it by weapon strength so it is 10% more. The reverse engineering takes weapon strength into account, so the weapon strength is not already factored in, it has been factored out!

@Oslaf Beinir
For me it will be double time warp
The slow on crit is now slow every 5 crits which I guess it less “OP”.

You can actually see the traits in-game thanks to their chat code. I think the wiki has updated them and there are some tweaks.

I haven’t checked the video, but you can use shatter without any clones because you count as a clone (something that used to be called illusionary persona). This is a bad idea for F1 and F2 since the damage ends up being quite lower, but can make sense for F3 and F4. In particular, F4 is good for stomping people and F3 for interrupting an enemy stomp.

The one thing I don’t like about this whole idea is that if this is even mildly effective, we will see a massive nerf hammer…
The one thing I love about this whole idea is the purple mess and the devastating confusion on enemy players (and I’m not referring to a condi build )

Oh Lyssa, may thy chaos spread on our lands

And what about EU?
I am in the worst situation possible: low-tier EU server (Vabbi) but currently living in US west coast

Maybe while we will have A-net’s attention on our feedbacks for the reaper, we may try to push a few feedbacks for our core specializations (since any reaper will still have 2 of those).

Yes, but the average DPS is the average of the AA + the CD skills which increase your DPS. And those CD skills make average DPS of weapons from other classes better than dagger which has only the AA. Then, the final nail in the coffin is the damage multipliers. At the end, necro has basically half the sustained DPS of some other classes in PvE.

@Khristophoros
Well you have to at least admit there is a reason for the fact that necro is the lowest DPS of the game: bad weapon damage + few damage multipliers. As I said earlier, the AA of dagger is one of the highest but we don’t have any additional burst skill. This means we have one of the most boring damage rotation of all (57811111111111111) and a low total DPS.
The way the GS is built, I’m fine with the AA being weaker than the dagger AA, but gravedigger should be stronger, while it appears it isn’t.

I can see a pirate ship zerg being a source of trouble as they won’t be as much in range of our interrupts (shield in particular). Else, stability is an obvious problem and I think null field has to be a core of the strategy.

Except for that, I wonder how useful could a full distorsion-share frontline work. With well synchronized signet distorsion (basically all the time 1/5 of the team providing distorsion while they other ones DPS) + blurred frenzy, that’s a high invuln up-time…

Boon duration: 3% boon duration per boon can probably reach 20%. If I use rune of monk, 15% extra. So let’s say 30-35%…

I guess boonshared boons have the duration currently on you.

It probably does, however, we usually have very short-lasting quickness, so it is not that amazing. Before chronomancer, only quickness on interrupt (3s) was reasonably long. Now we have the quickness on shatter (up to 4s) and well of action (3s), the last one being AOE already so can stack to 6s if we share it (without even counting boon duration).
Alacrity is currently not a boon so not shared…

Well it depends on. Necro can stack amazing vuln in a DS build especially if the enemy is low. The main problem is it is not “bursty”, it slowly builds up. But a solo necro can get 25 might and 25 vuln on its own with his DS.

That is also why despite having lower DPS, the DS is often recommended over the dagger build.

Well I think a bunker is not only expected to survive but help any teammate around. If you look at bunker guardian, he’s durable but also an AOE heal machine, a rez bot and boon supplier.

• We have AOE heal from inspiration.
• The rezzing is good with medic’s feedback + quickness/slow. Time warp is actually better than the guardian thanks to the slow, but on a higher CD. Well of Action has the slow first and then quickness which makes it less good than both combined, but still fairly decent. Seize The Moment as a chrono GM?
• So the last part of the puzzle is boons… Yes, I was hoping for some boon-share (which is one of the reason for the chaos traitline).

But it may not be ideal, Mental Defense is indeed very tempting too.

Hi all
I have been trying to come up with a chronomancer bunker build and would like opinions on the subject:

Why a chrono-bunker
There are basically 3 things chronomancy can add to a bunker I believe:

• Alacrity: means your utilities (including heal!) have a shorter effective CD
• Slow: a slowed enemy is less dangerous
• chronophantasm: a way to keep phantasm support from inspiration while keeping shatterings (damage/defense + boons + alacrity)
  Also, the shield seems like a decent defensive weapon (2 blocks/2 phantasm every 30s + AOE interrupt).

What we loose
Well a lot actually. It is very difficult to have only 2 core trait lines… Inspiration is mandatory. Chaos provide more defense + boons (stab!) on shatter which I think makes it essential too. No dueling means little/no vigor, no blind on shatter, no mantras; no illusion (probably the most painful) means no Persistence of Memory, no Illusionist’s Celerity, no Phantasmal Haste for what I envision being a phantasm build… Should I swap chaos for illusion?

Anyway: my base idea. Please give your feedbacks
sword-shield/staff
cleric? rune of monk?
sigil of energy, water or renewal
Traits

• chaos: Illusionary Defense, Chaotic Dampening, Bountiful Disillusionment
• inspiration: Persisting Images or Medic’s Feedback; Restorative Illusions; Illusionary Inspiration
• chronomancy: Delayed Reactions, Improved Alacrity, Chronophantasma

• alt: illusion: Persistence of Memory, Phantasmal Haste, Ineptitude

Skills

• heal: ether feast (Well of Eternity?)
• utilities: iDefender and/or iDisenchanter for extra phantasm? Well of Action for a small time-warp? Signet of Illusions to be able to keep our phantasms from dying? Signet of Inspiration to share more boons? Stun-break?
• elite: time warp

So your opinion on the viability/stupidity of the idea? Suggested tweaks?

edit: my current version after some tweaks:
sword-shield/staff
cleric, rune of monk
sigil of energy, renewal
Well of Eternity, well of action, signet of inspiration, blink, time warp

• chaos: Illusionary Defense, Chaotic Dampening, Bountiful Disillusionment
• inspiration: Medic’s Feedback; Restorative Illusions; Illusionary Inspiration
• chronomancy: All’s Well that Ends Well, Illusionary Reversion, Seize The Moment

Thor Rising.7850:

For pvp, the best build currently is the celestial signet build. http://metabattle.com/wiki/Build:Necromancer_-_Celestial_Signet

true, although not exactly the easiest for a beginner. People may disagree with me, but I think for a first PvP build of a first-time gw2, minion master would be much better. This is a very forgiving build, which does not require too much skill but lets you learn your weapons and get used to the fast pace of the game.

Hi
Your problem is likely not to be about necro.

• First, even if this is possible thanks to the up-scaling, playing WvW is difficult before you’re level 80 and properly geared.
• Second, which build are you using? A bad build significantly increases your chance of death.
• Third, if you are new to the game, you may just not be very experienced with dueling. PvE and PvP/WvW are very different experience. I would recommend you to train your dueling skills in the PvP arena before jumping to WvW which can be a frustrating experience for beginners (but amazing once you get better )
• Fourth (somewhat a continuation to 3), from what you describe, you have no idea of what the enemy is doing. This is perfectly normal when you begin, but a very big part of winning is knowing your enemy. Again, rehearse in PvP, try to understand which enemy skills are dangerous, how to counter them etc…

You can’t expect to master the game immediately. But once you get some of the subtleties of the game, it is an amazing fun

edit: if you notice any similarity between this post and Cecilia’s post, this just proves our point

I mentioned it somewhere else, but I think a good and thematic way would be to put a short invuln on spectral activation.

I think having some evade on spectral would make sense (spectre = ghost = evade attacks). The spectral trait could add “evade attacks during 1s after activating a spectral skill. Gain life force when you evade an attack”

@upsdn
I know my words, I just meant that the focus of my message was to say I think Robert did help us recently, not blaming you for what you said.

@Levetty
So Robert is reasonable and the others are not? It is clear that while everyone seem to be focusing on the presumed OP-ness of mesmer, the fact that all high-tier PvP and PvE team have between 2 and 3 elementalist out of 5 toons seems legit for everyone…

To be fair, nobody likes to be 100-0 before even noticing there was an enemy around, while an nearly-unkillable, extreme support, decent damage D/D elementalist is OP-er but still less frustrating.

@Khristophoros
Damage coefs for GS from presentation stream.
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/necromancer/Reaper-Auto-Wiki-Incorrect/page/2#post5304397

@Nachyochez
Food can be a sizable improvement (especially on condition duration) but I would argue still not needed for a camp flip!

I didn’t really accuse you of accusing Robert Gee. I wanted to point that on the opposite of what you were “feeling”, I feel he has done in the past month a lot of good things for us. Some decisions were misplaced in my opinions (nerfing chaotic dampening, harmonious mantra, but keeping CS and PU), but overall I think the class is in a better place than 2 months ago.

I personally play rabid + undead, it works fine

You can definitely flip a camp at any time solo. I was just suggesting going for easy target as a training. It took me some time to pick up the shattering philosophy. At first, I was trying hard to make phantasm build work because I couldn’t get the shattering