Guild Wars 2

I agree that dagger and GS will be competing right now and the PvP/PvE comments made so far are very true: one of them will likely replace the other in one or the other game mode. If they balance it for PvP (they usually do), GS will need really high DPS not to be useless. Also, in order to play its role as a PvE necro-savior (which I think it is meant to), it also needs high DPS. So I would bet (and really really hope) for higher DPS in GS.

One thing which I had thought some time ago but that I think most people would be unhappy with was to change the theme of the dagger to become a hybrid weapon. Essentially a melee and thus more potent version of the scepter. I would barely reduce the damage coefs of the weapon but add condis to it. Its total DPS would be mostly the same in berserker as it currently is but the weapon would also be useful in condi builds. Just as an illustration, keeping the current coefs but adding 3 bleeds (6s base) and 1 poison (4s base) on the AA would allow berserker and rampager/sinister to have about the same DPS.

This way, all weapons would have their own niche. But I really think people would not be happy with this so…

Wow I wrote too fast :p
For team, hybrid sword-pistol, for solo staff :p
It’s not agnostic because you use the staff for your personal damage while I use the sword (or scepter). Actually you’re right that the staff can get somewhat higher damage than the sword in condition build. I used the sword since I you want 2 different off-hand phantasms in your rotation (staff phantasm is underwhelming in a condi build).

Yes, the 16k DPS are with 25 might, 25 vulnerability and probably 2 banners.

Btw, the staff AA is 1.32s not 0.75.

Tashigi.3159:

I do hope they don’t overdo it.

It’s not so much the overdoing as the nerfing the wrong part. We got a strong nerf on tuesday, which in big part was expected (and welcome) and in some part misplaced. Mantras of distraction was quite strong because of the insta-stun (traited). Instead of nerfing the stun-trait, they nerfed the increase damage when using mantras… They destroyed PvE mesmer while not fixing the core of the PvP problem.

@Esplen
A suggestion I made some time ago somewhat related to that
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/mesmer/SUGGESTION-Class-mechanics/first

Since you’re speaking PvE, healing is really unnecessary. The main goal of vampire build in PvE is the added damage from the life siphons more than the healing + the healing scales bad with healing power anyway. So yes, berserker is a good idea.

While being unique may sound like a good idea, axe really sucks.

Yes, if the scepter didn’t overwrite clones, condi DPS would clearly beat assassin DPS WITHOUT EVEN RAMP UP TIME. Now that clone death traits don’t exist, I just don’t see why they don’t change the clone overwriting policy…

Are you speaking solo or team here? For solo condition (or hybrid), rampager with sword-pistol is best. For solo, staff clones and shatter make more sense.

@AlphatheWhite
I did the calculations for rampager (more crits = max bleeds) build already a while ago.
The sustained DPS is potentially higher than the assassin build, but of course, ramp time blablabla

I also love like you the idea of chronomancy on top.

Blaine Tog.8304:

Zaroua.2714:

@DavyMcB.1603

Condi Necro is NOT fine in PvE. Most of our damage is either single target or dealt through Epidemic. Mobs die before you can stack up 30+ bleeds on a target and Epidemic those bleeds. And even if they live, you’ll do less than 5 seconds’ worth of bleed dmg once you cast Epidemic. In other words, you won’t have contributed anything meaningful to the group’s DPS on trash and on bosses your DPS will still be subpar to others.

Of course Necro Condi has potential, but not on trivial content where everything dies in a few seconds. What we need is new difficult content where trash mobs stay alive for 30+ seconds in order for us to stack bleeds up and then get an Epidemic or two off.

Like, say, most of the assault events in the Silverwaste, many of which include enemies with astronomical Toughness?

Yes, this is one place where condi necro is more useful than power necro, but also a case where condi engineers are more useful than condi necro…

I think that is a good way to implement it indeed. + visually, it’s like phantasms will clone themselves and we have up to 6 illusions on the field

Chaos Archangel.5071:

Silverkey.2078:

I think with chronomancer, if they keep the concept of chronophantasm (they seemed hesitant) phantasm mesmer will be a thing in PvP. For now on, I think the phantasm interrupts may work (lockdown while phantasm destroy your opponent), but I haven’t tried it.

Chronophantasma is extremely exciting. If they’re afraid its too strong on-shatter then they should make it on-death. Either way it opens up potential for phantasm builds similar to how illsionary inspiration does for boonshare

On-death would be sad and unlikely since the goal was to allow phantasm mesmers to shatter (“we want you to use your class mechanics!”).
The main problem of the trait right now is the burst of 3 synchronized duelists/swordsman just after they shatter. Having 3 damaging phantasms up simultaneously is very unlikely to happen in PvP.
Also I’m afraid that they will die easily after the first shatter since they will move on shatter-range. A duelist or swordsman survives because he is away from the fight…
But I’m looking forward to try it!

I think with chronomancer, if they keep the concept of chronophantasm (they seemed hesitant) phantasm mesmer will be a thing in PvP. For now on, I think the phantasm interrupts may work (lockdown while phantasm destroy your opponent), but I haven’t tried it.

we view fractals as our infinitely expandable, endgame version of 5-man dungeon content

I think this obviously says the end-game for 5-man is fractals which automatically implies that challenging group content is the end-game for some other format.

The second is that—while we view fractals as our infinitely expandable, endgame version of 5-man dungeon content, and while we will be continuing to discuss fractals in futureGuild Wars 2: Heart of Thorns announcements—this is not the new “challenging group content” that Colin announced on stage when he first revealed the expansion at PAX South.

This is clearly confirming what we thought(/hoped?) about challenging group content in HoT: this won’t be a 5-man instanced content.

Well yes but as mentioned the 1s ICD (per target) will not change anything for necro BUT also allow it to work for Reaper and plague blast. So it works on both ends!

I do think they removed confusing combattants because it didn’t fit with their idea of confusion as “bursty”. That’s also why they removed it from the scepter AA long time ago.

The goal is to balance with plague blast and Reaper’s shroud.

Honestly I think a first problem of condi necro is that bleeds got nerfed bad in the 23rd june update. All damages got increased, especially burning, but bleeds got nerfed!!! When you watch the recent video of DnT about conditions, the bleeding hardly does anything. And epidemic helped because you transfer 25 stacks of burning.

Because scepter 3 is pinker than GS 1!

I just think the attack speed is not such an interesting buff on its own. So instead of 15% speed on all skills, I’d rather have 15% on scepter + some condition boost.

I think it was made AOE in the first place to compensate for what I’ve been mentioning before: if you daze a target, you prevent confusion procs! So instead of wasting part of the confusion on that enemy, they went for AOE confusion.
AOE confusion is nice since we can’t have that really with weapons (scepter is “mostly” a single-target weapon). But I would still love my idea of reducing the daze duration and buffing the confusion on interrupts as I described above (it’s a “dueling” trait, AOE confusion seems out-of-place).

The goal of Dhuumfire is obviously to allow DS to be powerful EVEN on a condition build. DS 2, 3, 5 already apply some condi. 4 recharges DS, so it is still somewhat useful on a condi build. So dhuumfire has to apply on DS 1. I think just having it apply 2 stacks burn on a 1s ICD would be a good start. Life blast is meant to be scary, and is currently not in condi build.

It’s not. I’m running it despite the bug because I love the CD recharge, but I get only the bleeds expected from crits.

This is a confusion on interrupts, so I believe the goal is not AOE confusion as such but rather being the condi version of “power block”, hence my suggestion above. For AOE confusion, we have shatters!

In PvP, having some extra condi types is always a good idea to cover the condi cleanse. So the burning of the torch is good in this respect (since the burning from prestige is not so easy to use). But the burning is fairly weak indeed. The burn duration essentially allows 1 mage to have perma burning (without condi duration) which at best is 400-500 damage per tick… I don’t think 2 burn stacks would be that “OP”, possibly at the price of lower base duration.

And also worth mentioning, they only inherit the power, not the damage modifiers from runes or traits. For example, the potentially 9% increased damage from “compounding power” only increases your own damage, not the phantasm damage.

So, conclusion, the trait is probably working “almost” as intended.
Question now: does this make it a good trait worthy of its GM spot?
I’m not so sure…

I would love a complete overhaul of this trait as a “condition interrupt”-defining trait. Confusion and torment are our main conditions but they only work well if the enemy is moving or attacking which daze/stun prevents. So I would love:
“all daze duration decreased to 1/4s, dazed enemies are blinded, interrupted enemies get massive confusion/torment stacks”.
You would keep the interruption procs but would not prevent enemies from attacking to proc the confusion. You get blinds in order to keep some defensive aspect of the now lost daze. And since you weakened your daze, you get a nicer reward when they actually interrupt (high risk high reward).

For the GM placement, I’m perfectly fine. Most interrupts traits compete with shatter traits. Just make sure that any condi-interrupt build want to take it (and make sure condi interrupt is viable).

While I like the fact that it currently affects all skills, I must say it feels out of place and I would rather have a (stronger) buff of scepter in the traits. I think Angel de Lyssa’s suggestion is fine although I would have gone with a simpler “increase condition damage by 15 (or 20) per stack” instead of just confusion and torment.

If you want to cite Brazil, he will tell you that a GOOD mesmer is better than guardian for high level fractals (distorsion share, reflects, time warp, portal)

Currently, I still have hope for reaper but its DPS does not seem high enough. Having such slow attacks on GS, the DPS has to be higher than dagger but this is barely the case right now. But this is just a number, so I still have hope. It looks awesome, which is already something

In PvP, i’m playing a non-PU variant which I think also works great. I’m just not overly fan of the torch so I use scepter-pistol/staff, the only problem being that this build is meant to work with Duelist’s discipline which is (still) bugged… But at least, my build should improve in the future and not get nerfed (PU nerf incoming?)

Our only real support weapon is the staff. But most of our support comes from utilities and traits, so the weapon is more a matter of preference. Choose what kind of support you want (glamour? boonshare? phantasm? etc…) and build on that.

But what about ranger and warrior? I couldn’t find anything about it, which could imply it does not increase all attacks speed but it’s worth trying, no?

To see if this is on purpose, how does the longbow on ranger behave with “Lead the Wind” or warrior with “Dual Wielding” since the wording is similar?

“Increases attack speed while wielding a scepter.” that’s exactly what it says!
While I didn’t think mantras recharge was intended, I actually think this one does the right thing. Now they may change their mind on this later, but right now it does what I expect it to!

For PvP, I think necro is not too far indeed and is quite present in NA tournaments (not as much in EU, maybe the “Nos effect”).
For PvE, despite Brazil’s efforts, necro is still not very welcome. To be honest, this is based on misplaced elitism because necro is a very good addition to any PUG thanks to its self-reliance. Let’s be honest, many of those asking for “meta” in lfg are not speed-clearing level! Only really optimized group would loose (a bit) with a necro.
When HoT comes, developers probably think that thanks to its high survivability, necro could have its place in “challenging group content”… except for one detail that devs still didn’t understand: damage negation > damage reduction. Maybe thanks to an improved AI, boss won’t wipe people in 1-shot but instead attack regularly and deal moderate damage each time, but currently, without reflects or evades/blocks, necro are in a bad spot even in terms of survivability.

And in any case, I think devs have no excuse whatsoever for the situation in which condition necros are. When you see that a weapon (scepter although axe could also be cited) is absent of nearly all high-level builds, you should maybe think that they need some attention…

I think the problem is a bit of stubbornness from developers. They didn’t think of dungeons in terms of speed-clearing zerk parties. They thought of it as a very challenging content that requires a lot of defensive support and stuff. They never tried to balance the top DPS of all classes because classes where not supposed to reach that DPS. So classes which provide a lot of defensive group support (mesmer, guardians…) or high sustain (necro) got low DPS because “they would be able to maintain it easily” while the elementalist “would always die so would probably not spec full DPS”. The warrior still bugs me in this design plan, but anyway.

And now that they realized this didn’t work as planed, they don’t want to fix it because they have a new experience in HoT “challenging group content” (which I really hope will be revealed in Cologne) so they don’t need to rebalance DPS because, you know… back to plan A. But I am very afraid that after the first weeks/months this new content will again be min-maxed and zerked to the ground, and the problem will remain.

It has been reported I believe (probably in https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/support/bugs/Please-Post-7-28-Bug-Reports-HERE-merged/first)

@Windwalker
Would you now recommend malicious over Ineptitude for PvP condi build?

I will repeat myself, but the balance between PvE and PvP in mesmers should be fairly easy without needed to split effects:

The thing is a-net probably wants us to have low damage in PvE. Arguably, mesmer is the easiest class to balance PvE vs PvP because both use VERY different builds. If you want to adjust the strength in PvP, adjust the shatter strength. If you want to adjust the strength in PvE, adjust phantasm strength. There is no viable phantasm build in PvP, so they could so very easily increase our damage by increasing the phantasm attack rate for example. Phantasms are usually killed before that in PvP!
No, we are meant to be a utility bot, and when our utilities are not needed, then we become pointless.

Mantra of pain is still pretty much without CD. Distraction on the other hand, despite the CD reduction…

Carighan.6758:

The whining is pretty ridiculous. Effects aren’t comparable cross-class. Just because one class has a 20% modifier doesn’t mean that other classes should have the same or better.

I totally agree. Considering that our damage multipliers do not apply on phantasms, they are much less effective than on a warrior, so we should get a 40% modifier on mantras!

Wait, isn’t that what you meant

The thing is a-net probably wants us to have low damage in PvE. Arguably, mesmer is the easiest class to balance PvE vs PvP because both use VERY different builds. If you want to adjust the strength in PvP, adjust the shatter strength. If you want to adjust the strength in PvE, adjust phantasm strength. There is no viable phantasm build in PvP, so they could so very easily increase our damage by increasing the phantasm attack rate for example. Phantasms are usually killed before that in PvP!

No, we are meant to be a utility bot, and when our utilities are not needed, then we become pointless.

I’m mostly happy… am I alone? I just don’t think harmonious mantra belonged on the list while CS should have been. We ask for good nerfs and we get wrong nerfs so not fully happy.

@ZudetGambeous
You probably didn’t read the same mesmer post as I have. Most of the fixes are nerfs. Most are also “good” nerfs that the class needed, but definitely not any buff. And one in particular is arguably a “bad” nerf.

Iavra.8510:

Ah well, here we are, back to swapping out Mantras after every fight to recharge them.

Why they would actually reduce MoD’s cd is totally beyond me, though.

On a sidenote: From the patchnotes it seems like Ranger taunt still goes through evade/block.

Because they realized that mantras work best without CD but still wanted to remove this nice feature bug.

Well they fixed Mallicious sorcery and Mender’s Purity, but still not duelist’s discipline. Blinding dissipation and ineptitude are fixes, and I think it is a good thing. Mirror blade is an attempt to reduce the burst, so we’ll have to see how it turns out. Mantras, this is sad but I always thought this was a bug and not a feature.
The only one which bugs me is Harmonious mantra… it just does not make much sense to me. It is really not easy to keep the 5 stacks, so now this is simply worse than the previous version (4% per charged mantra I think)

Actually phantasms have been made stronger. In particular, there used to be 2 traits giving 15% more damage to phantasm, one of them was not usually reached in power builds and has now been made baseline. Phantasms are stronger than ever!

I’ve stopped using portal in pug PvP cause I was the only one using it :p
I use mirror image for a free shatter instead!