Guild Wars 2

I think Arena Net has better numbers to guide their decisions on player income than what you provide here. Not only were you the experimenter acting as subject, allowing for any number of biases; you are also n = 1, when Arena Net has n= 2 million available to them. I think I’ll trust Arena Net to balance the economy with their data over your attempt to draw concern to what is likely a non-issue.

Vzur.7123:

OTOH, for a themepark type game.. I don’t know, it does seem kind of central to the mechanics. I think the people who just enjoy the content, fighting mob after mob, without needing to be rewarded for it, are a pretty small niche. It can be fun for a little while, but it’s not like a more engaging action game – and even they tend to rely entirely on PvP for longevity.

Painted that way it does sound bleak. However, there is much to do to make it a unique and challenging experience. New content obviously adds uniqueness. What GW2 lacks is full utilization of dynamic events. Remember in the manifesto where they described that changes to the world that could occur? I’ve noticed that they rearely occur, because the encounters themselves just lack the challenge to get the world into a state where it’s changed. I think Arena Net under estimated their player-base’s skill. I’ve made suggestions elsewhere on how to change it:

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/suggestions/Scale-Dynamic-Event-Difficulty-on-Success/first#post101866

Other than that have multi-faceted tasks required to complete some of the larger world bosses would increase difficulty by require organization.

Crushl.1027:

Gank.4957:

“I don’t want to do anything the game offers so the game has no endgame!”

Might be harsh but that is exactly what I read from your post.

I think you’re making this a bit to easy for yourself. Of course, there is something to do on 80. But the point is, there’s so much more potential in this game for some real epic stuff which just didn’t make it into the game. At least at this point.

I tried to describe one possibility of 80 content here: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/events/Why-did-you-not-push-World-PvE-one-step-further/first#post88968

I agree there is much potential to be had, not just at 80, with the dynamic events. I made a suggestion here for boosting them a bit and turning them into “end game” content:

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/suggestions/Scale-Dynamic-Event-Difficulty-on-Success/first#post101866

Ubung.7423:

I dont know if you can bring that kind of difficulty to the open world. The very nature of being accepting to anyone neccessitates a lower difficulty so anyone can join in.

I’m not so sure it does, unless the entire world in question is devoid of groups of skilled players willing to do the open content. Additional players, regardless of skill, will aid that content, or in the worst case scenario do nothing at all. I don’t think there are many cases where they could make it more difficult, unless they are specifically assigned some task for the encounter that they perform badly at. In that case I think the blame falls on both parties, the one that delegated responsibility to the player unskilled at that task and the player. They can of course assign themselves to a task, say using an environmental weapon in limited supply and misuse it. In that case it’s up to the community to instruct (patiently at first), or report the player for trolling the encounter if their behavior continues and they refuse to relinquish control.

Regardless, so long as there are dedicated guilds, perhaps one like your own, doing these challenging open world events, then there is no need to worry about players who do not have the skills to do the encounter as they have stronger players in their world’s community as support.

Ubung.7423:

But its already in the game for people who do like that sort of thing. So we might as well open it up to larger groups of people. As long as it doesnt become the focus of the game I cant see how people would not deem that acceptable.

That depends on what you mean by focus. I’m not opposed to doing instances, I just don’t like the mentality that we have to have them in MMOs. I see MMOs more as a large community game, than a LAN game. My largest gripe is that developers shove their story content and challenging encounters into the instances, making them requirements to enjoy the story/game. This happened with WoW where only the large guilds got to interact with the important story NPCs and have more interesting encounters.

GW 2 has done away with much that ruins having open-world content and has created a good vehicle through dynamic events for delivering open world content. So, I see it as the perfect game to bring the challenges typically reserved for instances raids of to the world.

Ubung.7423:

I like this idea to be honest but Im still a firm advocate of larger dungeon groups. For one reason they are something I can schedule as a guild leader myself.

In a perfect world id be able to organise a weekly event where my guild participated in the 10 / 20 man dungeons, a time where challenge and coordination are supreme.

Then on other nights organise an exploration party where we all just start somewhere and make our way through the dynamic events. See where you get lucky with some large, cool bosses. A more relaxed affair where we just play the game.

Ah, I’m opposed to instances in all their forms. I think the world as a whole should be actively working together to overcome the current threat to the world, not shuffling off into their own private corners of the world only to emerge when it comes to show off their new shinies in towns. If you’re a great guild, I want to be there to witness and help you take down the threat, not just see your new armor.

SpectacularYak.6518:

…

Have you read this:

http://www.mmorpgguys.com/blogs/BadSpock/032011/21585_Linear-Statistical-Progression-An-affliction-that-has-ruined-MMOs-from-the-getgo

I’ve been posting it frequently as it keeps coming up as relevant to the discussion.

kgptzac.8419:

I am more alluding to the recent patch to dungeons, and another thread on this forum which raised a legitimate question on what message ANet is trying to send: while they say they don’t want us to grind, there’s a huge grind revolving dungeon rewards which obviously want players to achieve, while the developers added several other features to punish people for wanting to grind instead of making the grind more fun and less grindy.

Didn’t that patch just affect monetary income, and only if the same path was run twice? Or was it more? I only ask as gold hasn’t exactly been flowing in for me, but it has been flowing. More important it hasn’t been flowing out either. There just haven’t been many large purchases to make, so far. What are the large gold investments people need to make?

Ubung.7423:

SirMoogie.9263:

@Ubung

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Squad

It’s a grind unfortunately. We’re trying to get our guild leader it ASAP.

I didnt think squads worked in PVE. Ok well its still way too much money for a simple game enhancing feature. I think the cost is more associated with the way it allows people to see that guy on the map and assume that guy knows what he is doing in pvp. Hence the high cost to ensure that the only people who have one actually do know what they are doing.

Agreed. It could have similar uses in PVE, if dynamic events were made more challenging. Something I’ve been advocating for is a difficulty scale for dynamic events that ramp their difficulty up every time they are successfully completed (and decrease it on failure). This way the next time the event repeats it is harder to the point that it would take a coordinated guild to take down the Shatterer, for example. It could also give guilds/servers some boasting rights, such as, we’re the server that took down 10-star Shatterer first. I made the suggestion here, but it got no attention:

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/suggestions/Scale-Dynamic-Event-Difficulty-on-Success/first#post101866

Most importantly for me is I may actually see an event fail and different event paths.

@Ubung

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Squad

It’s a grind unfortunately. We’re trying to get our guild leader it ASAP.

kgptzac.8419:

I
Now let’s not forget what ArenaNet promised us: a better gameplay that would beat AAA subscription model MMO’s. That would also include the ability to retain players, having them engaged in the game to keep generate revenue (for the developers) and fun (for the players). As player, why should I expect anything less than that?

But are we really at that point yet? It’s been three weeks and I’m at level 60 and no where near map/story completion. We don’t have access to the numbers, but I imagine I’m above average when it comes to exhausting the content. I’m not even worried about getting max gear, because I’m still enjoying exploration of the world (currently in Blazeridge Steppes). I think if you exhaust the sizable content with in days to a few weeks, then yes, considering another game to play is a valid alternative. This isn’t a demand to leave, it’s more of a request for consuming the game at a slower pace that is closer to the average.

Grinds are put in to provide activities to do for those that clear content at an above average pace between content updates, and the grinds in GW 2 are sizable ones from what I’ve seen of the legendaries. What do you think is lacking exactly?

So, help me understand this. From the wiki edit history CoF used to award 26s on first completion and 15s on subsequent runs. It now says it awards 5s on subsequent runs. Do you get the 26s for each unique path? When does it reset and consider it a unique run?

Stratto.3869:

Aight check it, I was doing COF runs to do two things at once: 1 Get tokens for the gear I wanted and, 2: Get 26-40 silver per run to buy some upgrades armor and weapon wise. they just nerfed the amount of money you get to 2 Silver from 26 Silver to 2. CM I heard it went from 50 Silver to 85 copper.

Actually according to the wiki they changed it from 26 silver on your first completion for the day and 15 silver for subsequent runs to 26 on first to 5 silver on subsequent runs. it looks like the grapevine is exaggerating the reward decrease.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/index.php?title=Citadel_of_Flame&action=historysubmit&diff=363277&oldid=361098

What are you trying to buy on the trading post and how much does it cost?

Stratto.3869:

Nothing WAS, but now it is, when your base of income gets a 90% reduction, you kinda hit the red before you even get there.

That depends on your costs actually. If you were only spending 5% of your income on upkeep between payouts and you now lost 90% of your payout you would still be in the green. And…

90%, seriously? What were you doing that is now unfeasible. How much were you making and how much do you make now? Call me incredulous.

Stratto.3869:

To have fun, but that fun is being taken away because of the in game prices and rewards being nerfed. You need money in the game to do anything, Teleport, Wvw (repairs), dungeon (repairs). Etc etc.

So, you are finding that you don’t have enough money to repair or travel? I haven’t had this experience, but it might be afflicting certain activities. I’ve only noticed dips in income when I go out of my way to make purchases from the trading post or for the various leveling milestones (e.g., trait books). What specific activities are making you go into the red?

Stratto.3869:

Unfortunately I payed for it with MY money, and actually care about getting my monies worth. I can’t speak for those of us who just like bowing our heads when prices go up or our product is changed right from under our noses. “Leave then” is the excuse given to those that A: had their parents buy it, B: used money given to them for birthdays or gifts in general, or C: Don’t care about getting their monies worth.

SirMoogie.9263:

Wow. Let me rephrase. What are you personally trying to achieve in game?

Stratto.3869:

….

Wow. Let me rephrase. What are you personally trying to achieve in game?

Agreed. I’m a gamer not just a Guild Wars 2 player. If I exhaust Guild wars 2 content to my satisfaction there are other games for me to play until they add more content to enjoy.

Stratto.3869:

issing the point. I haven’t exhausted the content, they have exhausted it for me. I was enjoying dungeon runs but now I will be paying to do them because of the nerf of rewards. They are slowly, but extremely, making it it harder and harder to get anywhere at lvl 80. I haven’t exhausted kitten, the providers are ruining it right in front of my eyes. Are you OK with have the content be less and less appealing?

I guess I don’t understand. Where are you trying to get to?

Sounds like you exhausted all of the content that you wanted to experience. Take a break, play another game, and return to the game when they add new content you’ll enjoy. It was a $50-$60 purchase and you probably got 200+ hours out of the game if you have experienced the world and what it offers. MMOs cannot possibly cater to the schedules of those who exhaust all of the content quickly.

Khristophoros.7194:

SirMoogie.9263:

Khristophoros.7194:

I like the idea of scaling the costs based on zone level rather than player level. I think that would pretty much fix it.

This seems like a good suggestion, if the dynamic events have their awards shifted to compensate.

I’ve tried doing some lower level events on my currently level 70 character. Sure I get more exp than I did at lower levels (2000+ for lowest level events) but that is a very small amount of experience for a level 70 character. I can get that amount of experience by hitting a few gather points in a 60-70 zone. The rewards actually don’t scale that well for low level events. I don’t think it would need a change.

What I meant was if costs are being shifted to higher level zones that were once had by going to any zone, the higher level zones may need their currency generating content shifted upward to compensate for the increased costs for traveling to and within those zones, and the lower level zones may need their currency generating rewards lowered. This ensures that it isn’t prohibitive to explore any zone at any level.

Khristophoros.7194:

I like the idea of scaling the costs based on zone level rather than player level. I think that would pretty much fix it.

This seems like a good suggestion, if the dynamic events have their awards shifted to compensate.

@Khristophoros

Sorry I can’t quote you directly, but my reply button disappeared. I agree there are many things they could do, but not so sure many are better. What did you have in mind?

Let’s assume the economy is set up in a way that they like it and that the gold sinks are in the proper proportions and affecting people in an equitable way, meaning the gold sinks aren’t hitting the crafters too hard, those that use the trading post, or even those who haven’t learned to dodge roll yet (i.e., those who have to repair their gear more frequently). Equity is kind of a nice feature for gold sinks in the economy because it doesn’t make it prohibitive to participate in certain activities. One of the benefits of having waypoints have a gold sink is it hits everyone, as it’s an activity that we all have to do. Well, you don’t have to, but I suspect the community that never uses waypoints is virtually non-existent.

So, suppose waypoint costs are removed or lowered. Where should we add these costs to keep inflation in control while retaining the equity of those costs? We don’t have to keep the equity mind you, but without it it kind of makes it seem like you’re trying to pass the costs onto another segment of the population so you don’t have those costs. For example, you could say make crafting goods higher, because you don’t craft. Or make armor repairs higher, since you’re a pro and don’t die. Add a fee to dungeon entry, as you don’t do those. Add postage to mail, as you don’t use mail. You get the point.

So, what is your suggestion on passing the costs? Who should have these costs placed on them if it isn’t those who use waypoints?

Khristophoros.7194:

SirMoogie.9263:

I’m not an expert on economies, but it’s clear this is meant to help control higher inflation of the market by taking gold out of it. In the long run it’s better to control rampant inflation, because it means you can buy more with your in game income than you could otherwise. Perhaps a post by John Smith would help shine a spotlight on gold sinks and their effects on inflation.

Oh I didn’t realize the economy was more important than having a low-stress experience while playing.

If you use the trading post, then the state of the economy could be a source of “stress”. That you don’t, doesn’t mean that others wouldn’t find a hyperinflated economy a source of stress. Try to take into account other perspectives. I have never been a position where I wasn’t gaining savings due to the gold sinks (i.e., currency destroyers). The currency creation in this game has always been sufficient to have slow growth (and rapid growth when I take advantage of the trading post). If you are perhaps there is something you are doing that I’m not. Try to help me understand. How do your play the game?

I’m not an expert on economies, but it’s clear this is meant to help control higher inflation of the market by taking gold out of it. In the long run it’s better to control rampant inflation, because it means you can buy more with your in game income than you could otherwise. Perhaps a post by John Smith would help shine a spotlight on gold sinks and their effects on inflation.

Adzy.8370:

Okay so if someone uses the word ‘Gay’ in a derogative context can they please get banned because that is insulting homosexuals. And no I’m not a child, because I don’t get offended over the internet from kitten words that were not even directed at me.

They already suspend for this, and forum posters that use it get serious infractions. I report every use of the word gay as derogatory, and every time the post was cleared up and the moderator’s comments were visible in a forum search (which I think is a bug, but this is how I know they treat it as a serious infraction.) You deserved yours for the ‘N’ word.

Lance Coolee.9480:

@SirMoogie – I understand where you’re going w/ this. I just don’t see how it would de-emphasize community building across GW2.

If exciting fun and challenging story content is pushed into highly specialized raid dungeons it makes people more likely to create exclusionary policies (such as having certain gear, builds, etc.) in order to create optimal runs. If it’s out in the world and competition is removed for the resource (i.e., no mob tagging and new players can only help the encounter not make it more difficult), then players are more likely to accept help from any source, whether it’s a casual player who doesn’t have the best gear or a small guild. Instanced raids leave many players unsatisfied that would like to experience fun and challenging story content. because they don’t have a group fo dedicated players to run with, or because they are excluded because they are one of the “have nots” of the players base.

I also genuinely don’t see how open world content exclusively promotes community building. You can probably prove that point yourself by asking anyone to provide any player’s name for any DE they’ve participated in. I’ll bet you’ll get very little response.

I would say GW 2 doesn’t do this perfectly, but it is a step in the right direction. We seem to play along side each other in PVE more so than play with one another. At the moment I think it lacks challenging dynamic events and a need for communication/leadership in the PVE content. I don’t think world content is immune from having such content, just that it isn’t there. See my suggestion on dynamic event scaling for content that could introduce guild or even world boasting rights, which would help build community better than what we have now:

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/suggestions/Scale-Dynamic-Event-Difficulty-on-Success/first#post101866

Bottom line, I’ve played other games that put the content behind stigmatizing walls that I couldn’t scale (I’m just too casual I guess). If the content is in the world there are no walls that prevent me from participating in the game’s story.

Lance Coolee.9480:

I never recall mentioning anything in my suggestion about rewards, merely the experience. It’s nice that GW2 introduces so many new community-based events throughout the world, but I wouldn’t genuinely say that those experiences right now require much team play (with maybe the exception of a few events in Orr). I would like to be able to visit content exclusively with a group of people I’m comfortable attending with. It’s not elitist, but it gives us the opportunity to scale content to a level that general PuGs might not survive (without serious coordination).

And TBH, I like the look of my lvl 80 crafted exotic set, so I’d likely xmute anything I get out of a difficult setting onto that.

The focus of my response was about playing with one’s community, not rewards, but I can see why you got that impression. I see instancing as a bane to community building. They hide people from the world and their server population, only to have them emerge after they’ve completed great feats away from their server’s eyes. We should have content that drives us together as a community, not divides us into little groups that never cooperate. It’s an MMO, not a LAN game to be played with only a small group of people. If the content needs a larger guild and you do not have one, join up with a larger guild doing the content. You don’t even need to ask in this game as it removes much of the competitive streak that is a bane to open world content (i.e., the content that should be driving MMOs) in other games.

Lance Coolee.9480:

I would like to see instanced content that scaled in difficulty based on the number of players attending.

I would not like to see instanced content, in any form, unless it has to do with personal story. The focus of MMOs should not be shuffling players off into their own small little worlds, only to creep out to gather in a town to show how pretty they’ve become by exploring their small little world. The focus should be on playing epic, challenging, and fun content together as a community. Guild Wars 2 has done many things to revitalize (create?) the concept of MMO as community that acts together in the world instead segmented population that treats each other as a hindrance.

I think what GW 2 lacks currently is challenging content that requires the community to participate. Dynamic events have the capacity to be challenging events, even some in their current state if the difficulty were ramped up a bit. There is no need to shuffle the population into instances if dynamic events are done right.

See this post for good coverage on this topic:

http://www.mmorpgguys.com/blogs/BadSpock/032011/21585_Linear-Statistical-Progression-An-affliction-that-has-ruined-MMOs-from-the-getgo

Here is a suggestion I made to make dynamic events a bit more challenging, and possibly a good activity for guilds to tackle as a group:

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/suggestions/Scale-Dynamic-Event-Difficulty-on-Success/first#post101866

Shaank.2065:

Yea that would be pretty awesome, I liked EQ’s non instanced raiding where guilds had to fight over who got to the boss first.

It does sound epic, but I don’t think Guild Wars 2 should reintroduce the failed concept of competition in the PVE environment. It just divides community instead of supporting it, and largely makes no sense from a roleplaying standpoint. Larger guilds should not be opposed to smaller guilds, or even solo players, joining in on the fun of a world raiding experience. Other players should be seen as allies, not competition in the PVE environment.

I consider myself a gamer and not a MMO player. Thus, my philosophy is that once I hit a point where the game is no longer offering new or fun content I take a break and pursue my hobby elsewhere, I can always return to GW 2 when new content is added. I don’t see myself exhausting GW 2 anytime soon, I’m still level 60 on my main and have much to do.

MasterFhyl.3014:

Do whatever you want to do, but that doesn’t mean you need to scream it from the rooftops, and then only when it is what is, and go ahead and hate me for saying htis, an alternative life style.

Really? Scream from the rooftops? What game are you playing?

No. Acknowledging your relationship is not forcing it or putting it “in your face”, as a poster suggested. Plenty of straight couples acknowledge their relationships without this being forced. Why is it only forced when same-sex individuals do it?

The Sylvari story lines seem to have more that involve relationships, but they do not make it any more forced when handling same-sex relationships. I play a Charr, so I haven’t see any relationships in mine, just idle conversations in the city and such.

sfxblade.3459:

except in gw1 you could completely rebuild your character skills depending on the situation, if people in gw2 cant do it with their current skills…nothing will change in a few months, since they are always the same.

I think you have your numbers confused. GW never let you rebuild your character after entering a dungeon (like DoA). GW 2 lets you redo your skills, major traits, and armor. All things necessary to change it up.

Trait Strength In Numbers is not showing the extra toughness on your character sheet, nor your allies. Not sure if it works, but the character sheet suggests that it doesn’t. A similar bug exists for a ranger talent that functions much the same.

I think it is intended to affect you as well, and it is not currently working (or not updating your character sheet). It does not update your nearby allies’ character sheets either.

Evangeline.8197:

While I agree they do have rather low hp for a melee based class guardians still have a rather high survivability rate already. The thing that bugs me the most is the fact that Conditional damage is super effective against a Guardian comparative to every other class.

But few classes come close to the guardian when it comes to condition removal:

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Condition#Skills_that_remove_conditions

Rectifyer.1804:

Actually it isn’t working as intended. A red posted regarding the Hammer saying there are some quality of life changes coming to the hammer to make it more responsive and fluid to the player instead of being slow and clunky.

Your post was comparing hammer dps to greatsword, not fluidity. Don’t shift the goal posts. I have no expectations that the hammer will equal or rival the greatsword when it comes to damage given its superior control options.

Serp.3264:

You assume the customers of Arenanet care about how “successful” (which is a terrible description for it, you really should say “populated”) the game is going to be. You playing this game has no effect on my experience in the game. Success of a game is not judged by how many people play it (especially a free to play game).

While I agree with many of your points, I disagree here. I do hope Guild Wars 2 has a thriving community of players that collectively participate in challenging and fun world encounters together. I also hope it thrives not through gimmicky linear stat progression, but through the addition of fun and challenging encounters. I think buy to play is the perfect model for this type of MMO as players can join and leave as they consume content at their own pace. It also incentivizes developers into adding new fun and challenging content, and not adding content that can only be cleared once the right gear plateau is reached.

Birdy.4816:

Why does this MMO have to be an exception to a rule where reward = fun.

Because stat gains aren’t fun or challenging intrinsically.* They are incentives to perform other tasks, that give the illusion that those tasks are satisfying, when they may not be. Surely you’ve played games that were rewarding in and of themselves, and not because you were performing some linear stat progression task? For example, I had fun playing Starcraft single player, but it wasn’t because I was able to boost my units (I couldn’t as there was no linear stat progression), but rather because it spun a tale I wanted to play through and see. The story was its own reward.

From my perspective I think rewards should be perks, but not the driving factor for participation. They should also not drive a wedge between players of an MMO, a game that should be focused on community building not breaking. Linear stat progression tends to do this as it creates an environment where players that don’t meet the statistical ideal are seen a hindrance to your own gameplay. Guild Wars 2 has taken many steps for creating a shared world and not one that drives wedges, it still has its flaws, mostly that it doesn’t drive communication and community building, so much as it does playing along side each other cooperatively. A step forward for sure, but more could be done.

* - I don’t think this needs demonstration, but try this thought experiment. Imagine a game that just every ten minutes gave you higher stats. No action you performed caused this, it just happened. Is this fun or challenging?

why are elitest people that have beat explorable mode defending such crap just because they want to sit infront of their computer and grind 1500 tokens to get rewards when there are much better systems to use to cater to everyone INCLUDING THEM.

I’m not sure what relevance this question has to what I said.

Edit: Highly relevant article on the topic: http://www.mmorpg.com/blogs/BadSpock/032011/21585_Linear-Statistical-Progression-An-affliction-that-has-ruined-MMOs-from-the-getgo

Birdy.4816:

Serious to god the apologist can’t understand that you need a healthy balance of challenge and reward in order to trigger fun, not just challenge for the sake of challenge in a genre CALLED ROLE-PLAYING where your character progresses in a variety of ways VIA REWARDS.

No I don’t understand, but it is not that I am an apologist as I criticize the game in other postings, even in this very thread and the post you quoted. Why does there need to be gear progression if the game is already fun and challenging? I would like to understand, but you cannot make me understand by fiat.

Lucky.3870:

I’m against this. I want female character that wear heavy armour not to be over-objectified and to represent a real armour set for their profession.

Exactly. Most games handle sexy armor from a position of straight male privilege, and it is still somewhat exemplified in Guild Wars 2 (human light armor has a stark distinction on character creation, and there is no reason the female light armor wearers cannot wear something similar to the male, unless of course Arena Net is only trying to appeal to straight male gaze). I have no problem with sexy armor being available, outside of my personal role playing preferences of not having adventurers going off into combat in clothes not suitable for combat or adventuring. However, it is rarely handled with equity and is typically implemented as a means of pleasing straight male gamers.

gduber.9756:

Wow, really? I’d like to know what sort of armor that person (people) would prefer.

I would prefer male characters to run around in speedos if women are running around in bikini armor. Anything less is sexism.

Birdy.4816:

The one major element is the dungeon crawl, the good, indepthful mechanics of later bosses, the bigger community guild raids ect.

I don’t know if you noticed, but even Blizzard acknowledged their highly specialized raids ruined their game for a majority of their player base, ergo they changed it to offer easier access to them; which partially solved the problem. I agree with Blizzard and agree with Arena Nets decision to forgo highly specialized raids (i.e., they require a large number of participants, the right gear, and hours on end, and reset progress made).

You honestly trying to tell use that doing little minor asthetic things is worth it compared to playing awesome dungeons that offer alot of fun, challenge AND REWARD in all shapes and sizes isn’t part of the “An MMO to appeal to everyone” philosophy?

The game may lack challenge, I’ll give you that, but I see no reason why rewards have to offer power or character progression if the content is indeed fun and challenging. Games are meant to be fun and challenging, they are not required to doll out goodies. Stat progression only creates a system of optimization that precludes entry to content. Everyone should be able to enjoy the fun and challenge without being excluded because they lack the right stats.

This is not my suggestion and has several manifestations, but largely the solution seems to be similar to what I give below. I have searched this sub-forum for it, and have not seen it presented here. A little background, I’ve been taking my time with the game and exploring zones to their completion. I have never been to a level 50+ zone, and have completed some dungeons (which I think are challenging, but a completely separate beast). So far I have yet to see a dynamic event fail that has players engaging it. This is troubling as it indicates a lack of challenge. Furthermore, the world doesn’t seem to change as much as it could because events stay in a success state or near success state, when multiple states exist that are never seen. This isn’t as important for events that have no chaining associated for them, but for the one’s that have significant amount of chaining, like most meta-events.

I’ve been exploring Lornar’s Pass lately and the pirate ship meta-event in the lower left corner is a good example. No matter when I stroll by this area it’s always in the same state, the Quaggan captain is securely in charge and when threatened with mutiny the revolt is quickly averted. I’ve never seen this ship taken over by pirates, and I’m not sure how many events precede it, or even if a confluence of events are needed to succeed to get it in this state. I’d know I’d like to experience it though. I’ve had similar experiences in Harathi Hinterlands with the invasion of the centaur camps.

This may change in higher level zones, but I don’t think the lower level zones should be ignored when it comes to event progression and failure, even if it were the case. So, as a suggestion I think dynamic events should scale in difficulty on success. Meaning the next time that specific event triggers it is harder, and it increases in difficulty each time it is run until it fails and is pushed to the step(s) it progresses to on failure. Failure of an event will decrease its difficulty. The branched steps will remain at their existing difficulty unless they too succeed/fail. With this in play the pirates in the above example will get so numerous and challenging* that they will eventually succeed in their mutiny.

This is a basic solution to the problem that also has the benefit of adding replayability, other considerations that add icing to the cake are:

- Mark the event difficulty and increase rewards for completing more difficult events. This could also give an activity for guilds to do together, and boasting rights. (e.g., “We took down the ten-star Shatterer!”)
- Since failure is now an option provide rewards for failure based on partial event success.
- Make it more apparent where completed events branch. I’m less partial to this as I enjoy sticking around and listening to the post-event wrap up, but I notice many players run off after an event, only to return a minute later when the follow up starts.

Not every solution is without its problems, but I think the problems are minor. One problem is new players to a zone may happen to stumble upon it when most events are at their highest, making for a day full of failure/frustration (but not without its compensation). Another problem is this could encourage guilds/players to sit around in one place succeeding at an event to make it harder, rather than exploring the world.

Erasculio.2914:

. Someone at GW2Guru claimed that a dynamic event should become more difficult the more it has been successful, which IMO is a great idea. So the “Defend the village from centaurs” event would be easy… The first time. The third time players manage to succeed when doing it, the next attack would be so big that it would be almost impossible for players to win, “forcing” the world to change so players actually see how dynamic the events can be.

This is brilliant! it seems so trivial too, but yet brilliant. This would give an activity for guilds to do in the endgame, and they could sweeten the deal by having greater amounts of loot from chests.* I could imagine events being marked with level of difficulty, maybe a system of one to X stars. Every time an event is completed it adds a new star. Every failure of the event would remove a star. The only downside to this are new players coming across events might be treated to a more than difficult encounter, but when that event branches into its next phase they can pick it up there. Another downside is that it might create bordom for those seeking a challenge as they have to sit around in the same spot increasing the difficulty.

I’m not sure if it is the case or not, since I’ve never seen an event fail, but do you get some reward just for participating even if it does fail? That might also need addressing if it isn’t the case, as there should be some reward even if failing.

• Note: Not more powerful, as I do think we should abandon gear optimization as necessary requirement for participation

Reihert.1509:

Hammer is still too slow and its damage isnt considerably higher to surpress a gs.

Working as intended. It’s the control weapon for guardians, not their high direct damage weapon. Take a look at every other class, except necros, and you’ll see that they have a range of weapons that suit differing styles of play. The way the game is designed is not for you pick your weapon and then decide what you’ll do with it, it’s you pick what you want to do and then pick your weapon, utilities, and traits.

D I V A.6018:

eeeehm…
“Mighty Blow: Added a slight movement distance.”

THIS is it Anet? I hope this is some sort of joke, it doesn’t even address any of the problems of the hammer, did noone read what we, the community had to say? Mighty Blow was really like the only skill there was no problem with…

If this is seriously what you call so proudly “hammer love”, this is a sad day.

I’m not so sure what you were expecting. This thread had many asking for more talents for the hammer (done) and a gap closer (done). The only thing they did not do was increase the speed on symbol of protection. That they didn’t does not mean that they won’t, but even without it the hammer is now more than useful in its intended role as a control weapon.

Really? It made me hopeful. It seems they see the other professions as ones that can be done with quick fixes here and there. That the necro didn’t receive any updates would indicate that it probably needs a lot more work, or is perfect. We know from previous posting by Arena Net they do see the necromancer as needing the most work.

DrakeWurrum.6049:

In fact, I can safely say I’m absolutely sick and tired of running through zones where all DE paths have been pushed along the maximum progression in the direction of success. I have yet to see a single DE in a failed state!

I agree, this should not be the case. Perhaps decreasing maximum size of player base in the zone and more reliance on overflow servers could help mitigate the zerg feeling. I was questing in Harathi Hinterlands the other day and the major zone event require us to push back the centaurs (that were already pushed back as far as they could be) started, and it was a quick zerg rush to the event. When the boss summoned the three rock hounds they were no challenge to anyone, and the massive amounts of AOE made it frustrating to play in melee range for my guardian. Not that it matters, they dropped quickly and without much effort by those involved. Then the centaur elementalist joined the fray. His tornadoes were laughable, and the earth elemental hands barely stood for 5 seconds before being taken down. Afterwards, I’m not sure what the centaur did beside just take our attack. The sheer amount of spells made it hard to see him and he fell, maybe sending a handful of players into the downed state at times.

I’m sure this encounter would be fun with 10 people, but with the 50 or so that were there it was without challenge. I can understand making early encounters somewhat, but this is not an early zone.

On a side note, the few times I went through this event I always received bronze or silver credit too. despite participating. I’m not specced for damage through my traits or gear, and did use my elite tome of courage to heal, so maybe that had something to do with it.

Definition of zerg: http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=zerg