Please enlighten me. When/where have malicious situations been instated against players in other games?
And you’re right. The system is such a mess and punishing enough. The devs are very busy. I doubt they’d waste their time targeting players. The idea is really laughable.
When and where is irrelevant for two reasons. First, it’s a matter of fact that devs are human and all humans have a chance to behave poorly, lie, and cover up their poo to maintain their position. Secondly, there’s no evidence that Anet is doing it, so it’s not really a point worth supporting. I’m just saying that it’s not ridiculous to suspect based on human nature.
This is conjecture, but for the sake of the thread, I digress.
No it is not conjecture.
Please enlighten me. When/where have malicious situations been instated against players in other games?
And you’re right. The system is such a mess and punishing enough. The devs are very busy. I doubt they’d waste their time targeting players. The idea is really laughable.
When and where is irrelevant for two reasons. First, it’s a matter of fact that devs are human and all humans have a chance to behave poorly, lie, and cover up their poo to maintain their position. Secondly, there’s no evidence that Anet is doing it, so it’s not really a point worth supporting. I’m just saying that it’s not ridiculous to suspect based on human nature.
My biggest suspicion for these problems comes from this:
<Deviation default=“350” min=“30” max=“350”
This allows players with 1100 MMR to match up against players with 1800 MMR if the match deviates from 1450 MMR. This is virtually the entire spectrum of the PVP player base. Players are not being split into any form of ladder like they were during the first 4 or 5 seasons. This probably explains why matchmaking feels nearly instantaneous when populations are low. It’s putting players together from opposite ends of the bell curve.
The idea of a naughty list is ridiculous on so many levels that it isn’t worth refuting.
The idea is not ridiculous at all. It’s not unheard of for game devs (in general) to create situations that are malicious against their own players based on ideological differences or having been offended. It’s rather just unlikely because big companies are more likely to adhere to recognizing the risks involved.
What is ridiculous is claiming plans to build proof of it on an open forum without expecting consequences. IF there is any such thing going on, the threat of being caught would likely result in it being covered up by simply removing the flag from any player claiming to study it.
I don’t believe there’s any such thing going on however. There’s currently too many logical flaws with the matching algorithm that are obviously problematic, and it doesn’t require a naughty list (or privileged list) to screw anyone over.
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So in my opinion, if anything needs changing, it’s not the baseline algorithm, it’s the details of how closely the two teams should be in terms of rating (directly relating to queue times) as well as things not related to the matchmaker directly, namely class balance, map design and game modes available.
Pretty much this.
The effects of any form of “naughty list” bias or favor given to a particular account (that may not even exist) would get minimized if matching had a tight spread. The same thing goes for random team assignment. Players who are not where they belong in terms of rating will have a greater impact on the match outcome due to their performance rather than the outcome being a matter of predetermined imbalance.
I’m under the impression that the priority of matching opposing teams class for class is mostly responsible for the massive spreads we are seeing, and it’s these massive spreads that are randomizing rating progression.
People kept spamming the forum saying that games are lopsided because of class imbalance (such as one team getting an ele/nec while the other getting two thieves), but in higher levels, most everyone by then should know how to play different classes and be amending their team compositions. Matching by class was a mistake, not only for dropping match quality but also because it’s opened the doors for more creative forms of match manipulation. We’ve seen no improvements from the change.
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It’s almost not even worth trying any more. I’m either getting games where my team mates are so bad that I mechanically can’t support their decision to run in circles, or the enemy is so bad that all I have to do is spawn camp the guys running in circles. Ranked is pointless without tight matching.
Guess it’s time to ditch it and run with tourneys.
Why do ppl call them bunker revs when there is literally no amulet that gives toughness and healing power….
Because when you put on anything that’s not Zerk, Marauder, Destroyer or Viper, the Revenant will only do like 50 damage per hit. All it can do is knockback and try to stay alive. That’s what bunking is.
If all matches were normalized like you are requesting, and that is played out over several matches, everyone would end up with the same rating. The high rated players on the losing team would get a severe punishment for losing, and the low rated players on the winning team would get a significant boost. People need to accept the fact that some matches the will be underdogs and some they will be favorites.
You lose more and win less for being on the favored team, so your logic doesn’t play out very far. Normalizing matches and tightening the spread would make every player entering a match have similar MMR, not every player in the game. They would simply be more accurately rated.
Something went horribly wrong with placement and ratings. There are no bronze players in the mists at all. They are all holding platinum ranks.
……..
That makes much more sense in every way, from the perspective of mathematics and balance. The algorithm however, did not do that. That system designed around creating mathematically balanced splits, decided to stack every strongest player on the red team.
I mean, when I look at this, I don’t understand why there are people trying to defend the algorithm here. Whether it was match manipulation, server favoritism or a burp within the algorithm, something is wrong with that match making. It clearly chose to stack the red team instead of make a balanced match.
I’m not defending the alg at all, but like I said earlier, this is probably a consequence of everyone demanding class stacking balance. They spammed the forums endlessly suggesting that mirror matchups are more important than skill balance. Now games are so far out of balance that appropriate rating is either moving way to slow or not at all.
You can practically game the system now by running a 4 man of all different classes and queing at the same time to get paired together.
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People kept spamming for class balance and now we no longer have MMR balance. The disparity is so great that ratings no longer have much meaning because there seems to be some unexpected consequence of the alg that is biasing certain players towards the higher MMR team. I don’t think it has anything to do with chosen ESL players or malicious flags, I think it has something to do with something offhand like account name spelling, creation dates, or even player race.
How players with little experience and skill are floating around in platinum while 10k+ match vets who get 4 tops per game are hanging out in T2 gold because they soloQ is beyond my understanding. It shouldn’t be happening but it do.
Regardless of whatever myserious flags are biasing players, tighter matching along MMR scores both in total and being balanced across the teams should help make the rating system somewhat valid.
When I look at the top stats at end of the game the vast majortiy of the time the people awarded them are also the people I felt played best in the game. Also, if you play a lot and have a good memory of who the better players are again they are the ones getting the top stats usually. Most people build there classes to fill a specific role. For example if you are a dps you should be getting top damage and/or kills often. So long story short I feel like extra pips for top stats are totally appropriate.
This is usually only the case when skill disparity is really high, like late night matches.
When the matching is more balanced, there’s a disparity between classes that doesn’t relatively match their actual contribution towards a win. One case in point would be a mesmer forced to play hard portal because distracting tanks becomes the most effective tactic. There are no tops for that, yet it can be the sole deciding factor in the match outcome.
I’ve been having a lot of luck with staff too, except I’ve continued to use menders and earth. At first I didn’t think the ability to blast on the ice field and water fields more frequently would add much but I’ve been getting matches with 700k healing, which is insane compared to my little 200k dagger focus runs. The CC and aoe pressure is also slightly more effective, you just only miss out on that sweet sweet obsidian flesh.
Being able to hand out that much more support and aoe pressure seems to be making up for those occasional secured stomps and rezzes. There’s less chance you’ll need it when your team is that much more likely to steam roll.
I used to rank the support builds from top to bottom as d/f, d/w, and then staff. Now I’m certain staff is better than d/w. d/f should still be better in legendary due to how mechanically sound mesmers and thiefs are, but staff might actually be better on average for ranks below it.
I play all classes somewhat equally so I’m not going to bother firing up a class discussion, but it’s becoming clear to me that there’s a large disparity. There are certain classes that are capable of securing 3 tops no matter who else plays what, and some classes that rarely ever get anything. I’m seeing it time and time again from a diverse pool of players.
It’s been my long time experience that game match outcomes are largely based on who decided to go where and how mechanically refined those players are. It has much less to do with maxing out stats.
It just doesn’t make sense to be rewarding pips for it.
You can get dailies by playing a ranked game.
If you’re afraid you won’t be good enough, don’t be silly. Ranked places you with players similar to your level.
You can also get dailies by doing PvE content.
There’s literally no valid point to whining about this.
I have an SSD and it takes me only 15 seconds to completely load the game and get back in. Why am I being locked out after crashing due to the new patch? All I wanted to do was change toons during the setup period because my team’s composition wasn’t right.
Definitely. Guardian is getting out of hand too.
Wulp, guess I know what I’ll be playing this season…
The meter has an updated version that is supposedly compatible with the new update.
I recently suggested they mod the auto balancing system a bit. It would be nice if hot joins were a viable way to get legitimate matches going.
The problem is that 9/10 will always join the winning team, causing the losing team to rage quit. The game rarely ever grows to a 5v5 because of this.
If they weren’t able to join the winning team in the first place, matches in hot-join would be more likely to play out as something more than just a grab for dailies.
Kinda seems to me like off-season periods are unhealthy for the PvP community. I have some ideas:
Team Ranked:
Ranked play gets shorter break periods between seasons. The season enables ranked play, which is either a 5v5 team based system like it used to be, or also includes whatever new 2v2 mode idea I heard you guys had planned. Removing this for duo-queue seems to have murdered the competitive scene and I think we need it back.
Public Ranked:
This is like the current ranked solo/duo system, except that it runs continuously without seasons. The point is establishing 5v5 matches that try to make games as close and competitive as possible.
Quick Play:
I think unranked should be dropped to have hot-joins take over it’s function through the official servers. This should be viable if public ranked games ran continuously.
The greatest advantage of the hot-join system is that there is no queue time. However, a reason this isn’t very popular right now is that as soon as a team starts losing in a hot-join, someone rage quits and ruins the flow of the match. From there, anyone joining in will always try to join the winning team. This keeps the games unbalanced in player count which continues the trend of rage quitting and leaves the server struggling to build player counts.
An easy solution to this is to revamp the way team balancing works. If each team has 4 players and red is losing, a new player would only be allowed to join red. Since this could begin at any player count (1v1, 2v2, 3v3…) players will have an incentive to stick around if they are getting murdered because they will know that their team should soon be outnumbering the better team. It’s not a perfect system but it should reduce the negative effects to some degree. Currently it seems there are only one or two servers that have more than 10 players continuously to prevent team count imbalances and I think this could be improved upon.
boons – the same. rev got fury while ele got vigor. rev can perma protection while ele not so much. off fight ele can give swiftness which is nice.
Most offensive classes have their own fury source. It doesn’t really contribute. The protection uptime is also a lot higher. You don’t have to spam a heal skill to keep it up. Ele also provides a lot of regen which adds up to far more over time.
secure stomp – block and blind for the rev
block versus reflect but more handy to the rev due to low cd.
ele teleport 40 sec saving for disengage mainly. while rev can leap with ua and staff 5 with lower cd (but not teleport)
Stone flesh can only be interrupted by cloaking the downed. This is considered a secure stomp because you can drop 1000 CC’s on the ele and none of it works. Blind does not secure a stomp. It only protects from one attack. Also block? Ok so you can bubble against ranger bow 4 and headshot but that’s not very secure considering the rest of what you’ll face.
corruption – resistance is for the rotation and but some time versus fast condition proc like guards burning. you build up 9 sec and swap back to ventari with 50 nrg to use staff 4 +solace + PE . you can stay in mallyx if the condi class cannot rip boons off you.
dont use shiro as your role is to hold points, decap and not run away.
This is why it completely fails against necromancers. You soak up your entire team’s conditions and the necro pops your resistance with their access to corruptions -> Instant death. The ele just cleanses and also has diamond skin.
also rev got better kb off point and cc
Yeah but it’s the only offensive pressure that build has. There are very good reasons why it isn’t used competitively.
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Support wise they are both about equally as good. The rev can hand out better healing, but the ele can provide more reliable boons and cleansing due to the greater range of AOE.
The real difference is that the Ele does damage, can kill people, secure safe stomps, reflect projectiles (pressure), disengage more easily and rotate faster through teleport. In order to reach the point where a rev can heal more, they have to run magi which makes them almost worthless in terms of pressure. Heal revs with mallyx are also extremely vulnerable to corruption. Shiro is usually better for it’s ability to disengage, rotate, and pressure with CC but loses condi control. The ele however has it all in one package.
You’re not being punished, you’re being rated as someone who can’t carry silvers because that’s what you are.
I think they should remove the autoproc defy pain at 50%. Anything more could be overkill, but it certainly is way too tanky with zerk.
I don’t play for the rewards, I play for the experience. Having poor match quality takes the experience away. Having poor balance and a lack of build diversity does the same. Having duo instead of a split between solo and 5 man is also a problem. We need teams back and more rapid balance adjustments to promote unpopular builds.
I keep asking in map chat what ranks the players are and there seems to be no range matching whatsoever. Players from bronze and platinum are being put in the same match without even being in duo.
Did the devs not realize that ranking becomes impossible if there’s nothing relative to measure by? A huge factor determining your rank has become random chance.
It doesn’t matter if que times will lengthen. If you don’t make ratings relative, the matches will suck and participation will go down. You can’t prioritize que times over ranking. It is self defeating.
Power corrupt necro with d/f or gs in place of staff, burn guard (kite resistance), condi mes w/moa, rev with zerk (kite), and stompy valk thief.
The only “meta build” that can do it efficiently is just the mesmer, but it’s highly dependent on a successful moa. The rest are slight-variants-of or lower rated meta builds.
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I don’t even understand why they reset ranks with placement matches again. That should be for people who didn’t previously have ranks.
Also don’t understand why the rank tables are fixed instead of dynamic with a factor that shapes distribution by percentages.
It’s not hard to keep quality matching in place but they keep intentionally throwing it out the window.
Yeah it’s nearly pointless to run defensive builds on warrior because it’s invulnerable to physical and condition damage.
I think they should remove the endure pain trait and replace it with something more skill oriented like a refresh of all block skill cooldowns or a refill of endurance.
Any class playing with zerk should require either a supportive duo or CC assistance.
Crapping on hydro is the only thing I strongly disagree with. I don’t care what they do with blood, air, or fire. Hydro needs to stay because it helps counter situations that would be cheese otherwise like thieves or anything that has strong kiting.
Leave hydro alone, it brings quality to pvp by making the swap mechanic meaningful. The chill doesn’t last long, the damage is low, and it has a 9s cooldown. It’s fine.
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The rev has way too many traits that increase damage and healing by percentages. To compensate for how op the traits are, they nerfed the hell out of it’s base damage and healing values.
This is why it’s only viable in zerk for power and magi for Vent. It’s also why the offensive ability of Vent is zero.
I think they should take a lot of those traits out and replace them with more creative options, then boost the base outgoing damage and healing for every skill.
But whatever. The class is pretty much doomed to be the one build it will ever be as long as Anet keeps going with these goofy balance passes; assuming we can even call them that.
No. If that were the system, people would stop playing the game and trade caps and decaps to boost each other’s rating. Sad but true.
Can you justify this response with any evidence or examples?
Otherwise I can completely destroy your argument by pointing out we already have a system that rewards players for camping owned points yet I’ve never seen someone abuse it without being interrupted. The determination of other players to win by their best known methods nullifies this motivation.
People play pvp to win because their score means nothing when they lose.
I was thinking the same about the new contribution stats.
Cleaving downed bodies is a highly important contribution towards wins but they left it out to promote bleeding. This wasn’t a wise trade because anyone who has a clue wouldn’t sacrifice the momentum just for tops. Builds that specialize in finishing downs get no recognition.
There’s no measure for CC and status conditions. Someone who spends all their time dropping the knockdowns and dazes at all the right moments sways all the momentum but gets no recognition either.
Top healing often goes to the solo/far warrior.
Top damage often goes to the meditrapper.
Top defense gets rewarded to campers. Just sit on home all day and you get this.
Also stuck in map result screen. I’ve already submitted a report 20-30min ago and no reply yet. Hence I’m here.
Can’t do anything with a giant tab blocking center.
I submitted one 48 hours ago and I’m still stuck.
Sounds like a power issue.
First thing I would probably do is power it down and rip it all apart. Inspect every connector and slot for any intrusions. After everything gets reconnected and fired up, try turning down the OC if it still reboots.
I’m still stuck after having the game closed out for over 10 minutes now. Whatever it is, I can’t seem to fix it on my own.
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feels like either 1v5 or 5v1 every time.
Games used to be 400-500, now they are all 40-500. I’m either fighting against all day 1 newbs or with them.
Is there any point to keeping ranked open if it’s identical to unranked?
Can we please stop creating incentives for players to take actions in PvP other than doing their best to win the match? I’m all for giving new players a reason to play PvP and get some loot for doing it – but if we’re gonna bring in new players, let’s train them right from the beginning. If whatever you are doing results in a win, it’s a behavior we want to encourage. If it results in a loss, no cookie for you. This is how you create solid players.
Considering this game rates and matches in such a way to seek a 50/50 win ratio, I’d assume you didn’t think too deeply about this ‘issue’.
While you guys are fixing ports, could you also fix one that showed up in Capricorn?
At mid, there are two sets of stairs on each side you can climb to the higher level. On the east side, the stairs are sunk just low enough that you have to jump to finish climbing them at the top. This makes the entire east side without blink pathing while the west side allows it.
I like the changes to the spawn, but that’s about it. The rest I think is a major downgrade to the map.
The western/northern platforms of the central house can’t be teleported to or from but the south/eastern side platforms can.
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This is a problem. There’s no point to having a ranked off-season unless it provides the same balanced matching that the season had.
Not only am I seeing large teams now, but I’m also seeing people of all skill levels.
All my ranked matches before had been fairly close, like 400-500. Now they are going back and forth between 50-500 and 500-50. There are players joining either my team, or the enemy’s, who are clearly at the bottom of bronze and nowhere near platinum level. Thieves who never dodge, they just walk up and auto attack with pistol. Turret engis, spirit weapon guardians, eles with summon weapons, and a lot of random running in circles.
Just close it because it’s identical to unranked, or put the balance back to what it was.
Uhg, me and some of my local friends (with different ISPs) been having the exact same issue for the past week or two. The same node is dumping all our packets.
Unfortunately I don’t think my ISP can do much about it. This is probably the end of GW2 for me.
Personally I think rallying shouldn’t exist, just on the basis of it being a cheese mechanic. While I can understand that it does add complexity to our combat choices and some expression of skill in those choices, I think overall it’s just goofy and best left as a PvE mechanic.
I wouldn’t say there’s anything wrong with the downed state aside from that.
I’d say the necro skill bug occures 90% of the time. It usually only drops a small faction of it’s total potential damage to a target standing right in front of me, and as result, I’ve learned to use it more as a gap closer and aura trigger rather than use it at point blank. The blind is nice but sometimes at point blank It’s worth canceling after aura trigger because the corruptions and CCs I could deliver in that time are more important than waiting for the blind strike. It seems to work best when activating from a distance of about 400 where the first few hits wiff at nothing. It’s really hard to guess as to why because in a dense pvp brawl, I’m more likely to AOE damage the extra targets around me rather than the focused target.
The Warrior hammer skill is actually a bit more rare and I’m noticing it may be more likely triggered with terrain height changes. It might have something to do with ground targets and latency but I don’t think there should be any relationship to targets and a ground targeted skill. This one I actually don’t get replication with on golems and only happens during matches. It happens one out of 10 uses for me, where the character does a 180 right before landing, completely wasting the action unless there’s something behind me.
I’ll eventually get some time to put these bugs on video.
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Are you certain that the first two are not caused by one of the options to assist in landing attacks on your tab-targetting target? It certainly sounds like they could be.
I don’t follow. This is something that can be replicated against a test golem with a very high frequency, especially with the necro. It doesn’t have anything to do with switching targets. If it does have something to do with some option, then I think it should be fixed.
They typically spam stability. Necro corruption spam and thief/engi poison field spam is quite effective.
There are some skills on classes that often don’t work properly for unknown reasons. I mainly bring this up in concern for pvp.
1: Rupturing Smash
This is Warrior’s primal attack for hammer. Upon executing the skill, the player sometimes turns reverse 180 for no apparent reason and drops the attack in the wrong direction, causing a complete miss. Happens in both action and classic cam modes.
2: Death’s Charge
Deathshrouds 2 skill, often has the same behavior, turning the player 180 degrees resulting in little damage because only the first hits register (200-400 damage that otherwise would have been 3000-4000 with certain amulets). Happens in both action and classic cam modes.
3: Confusing Images
This is mesmer’s scepter 3 skill. It often fires off, playing the attack sound and showing the attack animation but without causing any damage. This most often occurs in action cam and may be a bug related to movement, however it is difficult to tell as the attack can also be avoided entirely by running behind the player. The necromancer’s axe skill Ghastly Claws (2) used to suffer the same issue until it was patched. The Confusing Images skill may be suffering from the same bug.
Dragonhunter:
- F1 spear throw range reduced to 900
- trap heal and f2 base healing reduced by 15%- test of faith duration reduced to 4 seconds ( from 6 secs)
I think instead it would be better to run the same pass over meditation, f2 and aegis heals that was done to the mesmer’s heal on shatter: Require more healing power to be effective. The guardian has a little too much going for it defensively with a glass setup.
A similar pass should probably be done to the warrior’s defense line, making the sage amulet a reasonable choice.
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