This is a MMO but sPvP plays a lot like a FPS in that there are “rooms” and team vs team etc. Nothing wrong with that. WvWvW great and I really love the fact that once you get base level 80 gear you don’t have to worry about it anymore. That is a very Daoc like thing (before ToA) where you would just craft a good set up and be done with it.
What daoc people would love and I’m sure everyone else too is a simple way to progress without it necessarily giving any power. Similar to how FPS game servers do stat tracking. When I play Counter Strike on my favorite server I can see how many headshots with every weapon, my K/D ratio, who my biggest enemy is, who I dominate, my best maps. STATS, give us tons and tons of stats. Stats are progression in a way and just as addicting as getting some uber l33t piece of gear (better imo).
Add in some “point” system and cosmetics/titles related to it and along with the stats you have an awesome system that doesn’t get away from the Guild Wars 2 idea of skill over gear. How can even anti Daoc people disagree with this?
(edited by Stiv.1820)
They are great for small scale PvP. They give a tiny bit of exp/karma and when you take it, someone will come along to take it back.
They should however allow your team’s map to show little red dots (like the green ones for good guys) for every enemy within their LOS, that would make them very useful.
For example K/D ratio stat might have more effect compared to Repair Costs, when it comes to “mindless charging”
For sure, just like “solo kills” will encourage some to solo instead of zerg. You could also encourage group vs group type fighting if you structure a point system correctly. Even if points only let you climb some kitten title ladder people will want to do it faster and away from the zerg if players in proximity reduced your points.
If they want to go crazy, allow people to unlock visual skin stuff based on whatever point totals or stat ranks. Say someone gets a cool effect on a weapon for having over 200 solo kills. Maybe something that only shows up for people who have a >5/1 weekly K/D ratio. Always something to shoot for!
K/D ratios promote zerging though. Eaiser to survive in a zerg than it is out of a zerg. Add more open space and I think you would fix the zerg only issue.
True. Depends on how they give kills. Just for touching someone or doing at least a good chunk. All flexible. Zerg is also a factor of just howkittenawesome the exp is for doing it. If people are like me and not 80 yet, you really can’t beat WvW zerg exp just rolling everything in sight. That small incentive may get better when most are 80.
For example K/D ratio stat might have more effect compared to Repair Costs, when it comes to “mindless charging”
For sure, just like “solo kills” will encourage some to solo instead of zerg. You could also encourage group vs group type fighting if you structure a point system correctly. Even if points only let you climb some kitten title ladder people will want to do it faster and away from the zerg if players in proximity reduced your points.
If they want to go crazy, allow people to unlock visual skin stuff based on whatever point totals or stat ranks. Say someone gets a cool effect on a weapon for having over 200 solo kills. Maybe something that only shows up for people who have a >5/1 weekly K/D ratio. Always something to shoot for!
i see posts like this in every.single.new.mmo.
surprise! this game isn’t daoc 2 either.
few people ever played daoc because for it’s time it wasn’t that good. other games were better at everything it claimed to be good at.
daoc vets are very very very vocal, but we can look at simple numbers (ie the number of daoc managed to hold) to find out that daoc vets are a very small minority of people.
i didn’t want to play daoc in 2002, and i don’t want to play it now. please for the sake of dignity, stop demanding every new game become daoc 2.0. campagn ea bioware mythic to make that game for you as those are the people most capable of making what you want.
however i suspect that if they did make daoc 2, that was nothing more than a gfx update of yoru favourite daoc patch, you people would still be unhappy.
I’m not sure what you are talking about. The numbers of MMO players before WoW made it extremely popular were low in genreal. Before DAOC the popular games that I knew about were UO, AC, EQ and then DAOC. After UO you basically had the MMO player base split between PvP (DAOC, AC (one server really) ) and PvE (EQ). DAOC was plenty big until WoW Roflstomp’d everything out of existence. Other fun games were around too like City of Heroes and stuff but really nothing at that time would have had the sub numbers you see now even in failing games for the first few months.
I’m sure DAoC was nice, I honestly never bothered with it. You’re forgetting a couple games though. Lineage, Lineage II, AO, Shadowbane, Star Wars Galaxies, …
Point is, this is gw2, not daoc2 and while yes some daoc features would be great this is not supposed to be a daoc clone. I think earlier posts have already shown some of the things that were wrong with it.
Yea, not sure why I forgot those. I played most of them. Planetside as well but that may not count. I don’t really want GW2 to be DAOC2 (I’d play the crap out of DAOC2 though). I just want some sort of Stat tracking and titles and stuff like that to keep it interesting. I especially want stats like “solo kills” where you only get a count on it if you do 100% of all damage to kill someone. That will encourage some people to stop zerging and get some lone wolfs etc that add to the fun.
i see posts like this in every.single.new.mmo.
surprise! this game isn’t daoc 2 either.
few people ever played daoc because for it’s time it wasn’t that good. other games were better at everything it claimed to be good at.
daoc vets are very very very vocal, but we can look at simple numbers (ie the number of daoc managed to hold) to find out that daoc vets are a very small minority of people.
i didn’t want to play daoc in 2002, and i don’t want to play it now. please for the sake of dignity, stop demanding every new game become daoc 2.0. campagn ea bioware mythic to make that game for you as those are the people most capable of making what you want.
however i suspect that if they did make daoc 2, that was nothing more than a gfx update of yoru favourite daoc patch, you people would still be unhappy.
I’m not sure what you are talking about. The numbers of MMO players before WoW made it extremely popular were low in genreal. Before DAOC the popular games that I knew about were UO, AC, EQ and then DAOC. After UO you basically had the MMO player base split between PvP (DAOC, AC (one server really) ) and PvE (EQ). DAOC was plenty big until WoW Roflstomp’d everything out of existence. Other fun games were around too like City of Heroes and stuff but really nothing at that time would have had the sub numbers you see now even in failing games for the first few months.
(edited by Stiv.1820)
Have you ever seen a zerg break themselves against the strength of an upgraded and wisely fortified tower? I have, and it is delicious.
.That is one things GW2 has much better than daoc ever did. Siege is actually very powerful and to be feared. In daoc other than oil it was pretty underwhelming. I love the anti infantry type of siege GW2 has.
I agree on this. DAoC had the start of a good idea but only the rams and oil were effective, the rest was like “oh a balista hit me for 50dmg” which was baffling. It’s throwing a telephone pole at you and your character ignores it like a lv1 mob lol. I love the anti-personal style here and and usefulness of all the siege.
TBH, I think Sky brought this up too, I think they didn’t think WvW would be this popular. Pretty sure they figured “welp, everyone is gonna do sPvP and some might to WvW” where it turned out the other way around. Let’s hope they can do something with WvW for progression and complexity.
Yea I hope that is true. This game has insane potential. Like you said I don’t even care about powerful abilities. Just give us stats and a site to go look at them. Give us some titles to go with some points that we get for killing. Add “solo kills” and “I remain standing K/d ratio” (weekly, monthly, all time) for example. Let players have an option box to show their name in WvW. That stuff would keep me going forever.
Have you ever seen a zerg break themselves against the strength of an upgraded and wisely fortified tower? I have, and it is delicious.
.
That is one things GW2 has much better than daoc ever did. Siege is actually very powerful and to be feared. In daoc other than oil it was pretty underwhelming. I love the anti infantry type of siege GW2 has.
Daoc vet here. Loved that game. Came to it from UO which in my mind was the perfect MMO in it’s day.
Sadly I don’t think games will be like that again. There is this “fast food” mentality about MMO’s today. Everyone needs stuff and it all has to be FAST. Imagine in this game if you died then had to spawn in your realm and wait 10 minutes on a portal pad to get back to WvW. That wouldn’t fly here but that subtle punishment for death made surviving out in RvR that much sweeter.
I played a stealther(Scout) and getting very deep into the enemy lands solo was something I loved to do. It would sometimes take an hour just to get where I wanted to safely. I did it because it was a ton of fun to kill people in places they hardly expected. Then they would report back to their boarder keep that I was out there and familiar enemies would come out to hunt me down.
I ended up playing Aion with former Daoc enemies. They grew into little online e-friendships. No way that’s even possible anymore with current games.
People also focus on “fairness” a lot now. Why should a RR10 had an advantage over an RR2 just because they played more/longer? For whatever reason in Daoc’s day, no one cared. High RR players were reviled or respected and it was great.
If they could capture Daoc somehow I would be all for it, but I don’t hold out hope. Our best bet is “World of Darkness” being developed by CCP. You will only get that type of gameplay from a company that can put the game as an “art” above mass player whines.
edit: I should add I’m still having an absolute blast playing Guild Wars 2. Nothing against ANet, they did a great job. It’s actually the closest thing to the Daoc model I’ve seen. It’s just the gaming culture now days doesn’t allow for a Daoc to exist.
(edited by Stiv.1820)
I am in a small guild on a server not doing so well in WvW. We (and other worlds like us) need your help! For this to work, it will require ArenaNet allowing guilds to transfer their points to other realms.
I’m sure many powerful guilds out there would be willing to transfer to weaker worlds for the chance to prove their might! This is a great way to get your guild well known. Seeing a world go from lackluster performance to top tier simply because of your presence would be a great way to garner prestige and notoriety in the WvW universe.
This also is a great player driven way to resolve some balance issues instead of having ArenaNet hard-code any type of change that could jeopardize the persistent world PvP they are going for.
So, if ArenaNet changed their policy on guild points, would your guild be willing to transfer to a weak server for the challenge?
Lol, people thinking WVW is actually something….
Are we going to extrapolate that out to your life, reading a video game forum? Everything is meaningless in the end. We are all just space-dust for eternity. So, can you just let some of us escape into this fun little game while we still have time?
Challenge declined.
Not that you are part of a guild that has any impact or anything but I’m sure some will be doing this for the sake of the game or for the challenge. Some already have. I was against RUN for a while back and now see them on our server kickingkitten We need more guild like them who transfer to weaker servers.
If you are a WvW guild who really believes you make a huge impact on your server’s scueess why not transfer to one of the lowest ranked servers and see if you can make an impact?
You can take some screens of how terrible the sever is now, then show the impact you make next week and wag your kitten whilst being part of a player driven solution helping overall WvW balance. Yea yea, I know guild progression blah blah. You will be back to your current level in one week.
Challenge accepted?
Exactly how is this stopping you from having fun in WvW? I am on TC and my small guild of 5 members (none of us 80) have been running around in WvW having a blast. We take supply camps, kill sentries and do whatever we can to mess with the other sides. We have been involved in taking keeps and defending them successfully.
Seriously, stop focusing on the score and try to have some fun. Move away from the golem zerg and hit something else. In the end after matchmaking has had more than one freaking round of weekly match-ups to work it’s algorithm it will balance the overall servers better.
If you played Aion is was similar to DAOC. There was no limit to the number of players who could go into the Abyss.
It leads to imbalance sure, but it also leads to “realm” (world) pride and movements to get out and take keeps. It is a social game that requires leadership to succeed as a world.
With queues, you can’t really do that as well. You could rev your side up all you want, but if there is no space, your organized group isn’t going to make a difference because 80 people are trying to do their daily jump quest keeping you out.
DAOC had huge “Call to arms” driven by the players that were organized through guilds. Everyone would stop doing whatever PvE and go to the realm to defend whatever was being attacked.
A lot of the problem is the rotating world system. It helps balance but makes it feel less persistent and you don’t feel the same connection to your enemies that you do in a game like DAOC or Aion. I think it still has the potential to generate a good Meta game though.
I thought you could buy yellow level 80 gear with badges? Can’t you not or is crafted stuff just cheaper/better?
I’m all for anything that resembled DAOC’s Realm Point system. It’s still my favorite “casual” (non full loot and stuff) PvP system of any game.
What’s funny about that is back then, no one called it a grind. It was just an amazing PvP progression system. If they had the exact system in this game, I guarantee the vocal masses on this forum would consider it the “Realm Rank Grind” and would complain about how it takes two years of solid PvP to reach Realm Rank 10 and how it’s unfair to have to fight people who are higher rank. It’s so ridiculous now.
We can only hope that Anet sticks to their vision and doesn’t listen to the vocal minority and realizes there are many more playing and loving WvW and don’t have complaints to post.
Hah not Elyos mentality but DAOC mentality. There was real persistent 3 realm PvP. No limits other than the server crashing from too many people in one place and it was amazing.
Silver lining is it’s easier to kill the other side’s Yaks since there aren’t 500 people jumping around them anymore. Killing them still gives the event reward and removes the enemy supply.
Just go to the main forums and search “In a large scale persistent game like this, you need friends” a few posts down you will see the thread “is night capping intended” and you will see many people quoting the text. That thread has been deleted or something, you can’t get to it.
This is the text, granted he mentions telling people they “can’t play” but you can also use the same argument for telling people they “can’t contribute as much to the game”:
—-
In a large scale persistent game like this, you need friends and allies on at all hours to be able to do well. Some worlds will have issues finding enough people to be on during certain hours, but you also don’t need a lot of people to defend or take things back during low population hours.
We will be making a couple changes to scoring in the next build we do. The biggest change you’ll see is that we will be extending the score tick to 15 minutes instead of 5 like it is currently. As always, we will continue to monitor things to see if additional changes need to be made in the future.
Telling people they cant play during certain hours of the day is just not an option. Not everybody has a day job with 9-5 hours and can be on during prime time. Those people should be able to play anytime they want, just like the people who play during prime time.
Mike Ferguson
(edited by Stiv.1820)
So, because someone has a different schedule than you they shouldn’t be able to have the same impact on the Meta game that you do?
Enough of this stuff. ANet has already responded to this QQ. It’s not going to change. Persistent world PvP requires that these types of things are possible. Things aren’t ever going to be fair all the time in WvW. If you want fair, sPvP is over there >>>>
(edited by Stiv.1820)
This could just be C&D + Mug + Backstab. You get hit 3 times and very large dmg and don’t see them until your client catches up to you being backstabbed.
No, they should remove any limits and let everyone in who wants to go. The matchmaking should work it out over time. There will be imbalances at times but I’d rather have no queues and let everyone in than what we have now.
Upboat from me. DF was pure awesomeness.
It’s a side effect of persistent world PvP. If you couldn’t do that it wouldn’t feel persistent. You should be glad they force a max # in the borderlands because IMO there should be no max, let everyone join the party and who cares of it’s uneven, that’s what world PvP is all about.
Hah Columba (angryranger), I have been playing the same games as you for years now. Are you on TC by chance?
Too bad. I was hoping the non signet ones took us to an out of combat speed +33% or something to make them worthwhile but if ti’s just 8% and still in combat it hardly seems worth it then.
So I get that there is in and out of combat speed. The 25% run signet boosts us in both. What I’m wondering is when I evade with the Vigor buff am I only getting 8% more to bring it to 33%? Same with 33% faster in stealth? So these abilities are greatly diminished when you are running the signet (and using it mostly for it’s speed)?
No you don’t steal anything on your enemies end. It just Shadowsteps to the target (and does whatever else you Trait for it) and then you get an ability in it’s place to use whenever you want. The cooldown for Steal ticks down even if you don’t use your “stolen” ability. What I do to learn is just not use the stolen ability, wait for the fight to be over, then hover over it and read the tooltip. Then try to memorize that icon. After a while you will know “This one stealths me”, “This one is a short range snare”, “This is adds a condition at close range”. Once you start to get it down, it’s a really fun ability.
I use P/P along with Smoke Bomb for pretty much perma blind for dungeons and if I want to cheese a veteran mob.
It’s based on the profession you are attacking. I think each has two options. So if you know your enemy you can at least be prepared for one of two abilities. Then you have to decide how to best use it on the fly.
It’s just bonus really, steal without the added bonus ability is amazing as is.
Try not having a target. Whenever I C&D I just make sure I run at anything and face it. That way you don’t get distracted by your target icon and you can adjust on the fly. This game actually hardly requires targets it seems.
The init use on miss is probably by design to punish.