Guild Wars 2

Every so often, randomly in a PvE zone a rift in space/time opens up a portal to another server’s PvE zone for X time or until Y players have gone through. Allow players to purchase mobile respawn points they can hide in the world that can be destroyed by the other side. Just like Aion in it’s prime.

Too bad this gaming community could never handle a system like this.

I’m gone but still lurking. For me it’s not the Thief changes (haven’t even patched) it’s the WvW update. I was hoping for a DAOC style system but they went to one that promotes zergs.

The main complaint I have is that full world XP is given to anyone who hits an enemy player. That makes it a pointless progression system that is only there for the sake of progression. If world xp was split evenly for a group and based on how much your group contributed to the kill then I’d still be playing.

The other issue is that TES online is looking very good to me and once I start to get hyped about an upcoming MMO I loose interest in my current one. Vicious cycle! Playing Borderlands 2 with my group while we wait.

Ezeriel.9574:

I logged to my warrior with 3200+ armor… sucked down a 12k crit (no idea what skill it was) and I just logged off….

Frenzy much?

Thieves almost require stealth to finish anyone if there is more than one around. Unless you are condition based or just some tanky build a thief will go down to autos during a stomp animation. Even when in stealth we can still go down to autos.

I don’t think I’m balanced but I do play a bit that way. I currently am playing 10/30/30 using 40% endo regen food. I played the other night trying to pay specific attention to this nerf to see how it will effect me. I really didn’t run into many situations where it did. Here are just a couple that will easily be able to be ajusted.

1. I found that at times I would in stealth behind someone and choose to let stealth drop then immediately do a C&D Steal combo. This won’t be possible post patch. I could have instead done a stealstab from range or open in any other way (sword2 or P/D3, whatever) and it would not be that big of a deal.

2. There were times where I would be in an outnumbered fight, C&D then withdraw away, then weapon-swap to D/P and after a second or so of being out of stealth, leap into a black powder combo to get stealth again quickly. All that needs to be done here is wait an extra couple seconds. It may allow whoever is chasing me to get a beat on me and give chase, that’s about it.

3. Sometimes when trying to stay in longer duration stealth with black powder my init regen isn’t enough and I un-stealth for a split second. This will be by far the biggest effect as you don’t usually mean to do it. Will just need to be very careful with low init regen and trying to stealth for a long period with D/P.

That was pretty much it. If you find yourself C&Ding then waiting and doing it again I think you are playing wrong or just trolling. My Mesmer is going to be way worse off because I hardly ever attack from stealth but many times stealth again before 3 seconds.

TheGuy.3568:

Stiv.1820:

Stealth stacks duration up to 11 seconds. If you try to stack another when you are at 11+ seconds it will not give you any more stleath. If you do another stealth action with <11 seconds it will apply it getting you to a max of 15 or so seconds. This doesn’t change at all with this patch. You can see stealth stacking duration by hovering over the icon as you leap thru blind fields or stand in refuge… not sure what you mean by “doesn’t technically stack duration”

As I tried to explain each stealth runs its course ends and then applies the next stealth. the duration seems to stack but that isn’t it each stealth is running its course consecutively. So when they said when stealth ends its applies revealed it could mean as each one ends. Do you understand now? You know what try quick stacking might using stealth and count the time between when you stealth and when the might is applied.

A visual example

Blackpowder-> HS (stealth 1) -> HS (stealth 3) -> HS (stealth 3) = 9 seconds of the same stealth right? Wrong

3 secs of stealth -> End ->Next 3 secs of stealth applies -> End -> Next 3 secs of stealth applies -> End (finally visible)

They said nothing about the end of that first 3 seconds not revealing you. You understand me now?

You aren’t understanding what the Anet dev said then. That isn’t how they are changing it.

What you describe is the on stealth effects but the actual stealth itself does stack duration.

I think some of us are just at a disconnect with Anet and their overall progression mentality. We want a DAOC style system that rewards quality over quantity. It’s just not going to happen. All they seem to care about is progression for the sake of progression, even if it’s meaningless.

Just look at sPvP’s progression. The best way to get high rank there is to farm hot-joins all day. It has nothing to do with your actual skill level or how you do in tPvP. It’s simply playing a lot, deathmatching randoms and taking team swap whenver it comes up. Even their side of the game that is supposed to be based around fair skill based play has a borked progression system.

Stealth stacks duration up to 11 seconds. If you try to stack another when you are at 11+ seconds it will not give you any more stleath. If you do another stealth action with <11 seconds it will apply it getting you to a max of 15 or so seconds. This doesn’t change at all with this patch. You can see stealth stacking duration by hovering over the icon as you leap thru blind fields or stand in refuge… not sure what you mean by “doesn’t technically stack duration”

Biggest change for Mesmer will be running away. Lots of times I will decoy/torch4 then MassInvis but I might show up for .5 seconds due to MassInvis cast time. After patch that will just blow MassInvis into reveil. Basically, you have to fully commit to doing it at the start of stealth or wait a full 3 seconds after stealth is up.

RedSpectrum.1975:

Sebrent.3625:

Without getting to play with it, the change from this basically just means that every time someone stealths, you know there will be a 3 second window in which they cannot stealth.

Those fighting a thief should plan to use the first 2 seconds for damage and maybe CC the 3rd sec to keep the thief unstealthed longer.

Those fighting as a thief should plan to use dodge rolls, interrupts, etc. during those 3 seconds.

As I said before, it could be good, but it could also not be enough or be too much of a nerf. It also affects Mesmers.

Sebrent I understand that mesmers will be affected, don’t get me wrong, but thieves get hit much harder since stealthing in a lot of builds is like our bread and butter.

I think it’s going to hit my Mesmer much harder than my Thief. The reason is I almost always attack from stealth on my Thief. On my Mesmer it’s only once in a while and most of the time I’m timing it with Torch#4’s explosion which happens after stealth anyway. So, my memser has never been hit by reveil in any meaningful way before. Now I’ll have to really pay attention to when I can decoy and torch4/MassInvis. If you are trying to run by stacking stealth and mass invis a half second too late (long cast time) you could end up blowing a 90 sec CD into reveal which would never have happened before.

Samhayn.2385:

Vena.8436:

Samhayn.2385:

I understand this and I also think its a bad idea that’s why I’m giving suggestions.

Stiv.1820:

Allowing zergs to tag people for full XP is a terrible design decision that will make this entire system meaningless.

And yet, no one bothers to address “what is a zerg”.

Are 30 well trained, fluid guild members all working in tandem a zerg? Or are they an army? How bout 50 of them? Is that a zerg yet? Is 30 vs. 30 GvG a ZvZ?

Might as well just go with the sandpile paradox in reverse:

• Are X guild members a zerg or are they a well coordinated?
  +1 to infinity where X is <1 than your definition of how many #s it takes to make a zerg a zerg.

Who would and how does one draw the line on “X is too many teammates, you’re a zerg”. I don’t consider the likes of my servers big, organized guilds running in groups (20, 30, even some 40+) zergs, I consider them a guild and a team. Yet, because we’re to assign some arbitrary distinction of “the zerg”… they suddenly aren’t going to be rewarded as if they were a team. How is such a thing fair? Why do two X0 vs X0 guilds going at it head to head suddenly being rewarded less for their efforts? Did the fight somehow become a lot easier when it was X*10 vs. X*10 people rather than just X vs X?

If you want to break up the zerg, add more incentives for scouting (or, as the sword change did, more punishment for not scouting). However this is a difficult balance because its often times impossible to discern a scout at a keep from an afk at said keep.

I would rather see this game be something we all (wvw community) can enjoy and not the rest stop on people’s way to TESO or CU.
—————————————————————————————————————————————-
edit: Seriously Anet, reconsider this. It’s going to be a big make or break it point vs this game and TES.

Stop this already, you cannot compare a game that exists as bullet points and in a mystical ether called your imagination to a game that actually exists in purchasable media.

I see your point but here is your mistake, when 30 v 30 happens and your side wins you will split the total amount of xp from 30 kills amoungst 30 people meaning you will get the same amount of xp as if 1 v 1 happened. You would make out even better if your 30 took out 50. What Anet is doing is makeing it so if the same battle happens you will receive xp as if it was 1v30 and if those same 30 run over a guy solo and all tag him (unlikely but still) they all get xp as if it was a 1v1. That’s not right. At best this system encorages nothing but Zerg play and at worst you will get spawn camping and outmanned teams just not showing up to fight since why should they give wxp to the other team when they have no chance? This does nothing to bring more people out to wvw and does nothing to spread the fighting out over the whole map and not focus it in two to three areas.

Please don’t tell me what to compare and not to compare I have been around long enough to know that poor decisions made to a live game will and does drive people to become more interested on what’s on the horizon.

Yea, essentially it doesn’t matter how you define a zerg, its a simple matter of math and how the more people you have tagging a player for full XP the more inflated and meaningless that XP bar becomes. 30 people killing one player worth 100 xp = 3000 xp rewarded. 1 player killing the same one solo, 100 xp rewarded. That’s the problem, giving greater rewards to larger numbers. It’s fine in PvE but for a WvW progression system it’s the worst possible scenario.

Farout.8207:

Titan.3472:

Btw 4sec cooldown is enough to kill a berzerker thief (they will have to play on their “skill” to last longer now, no more “I-Win button”) :p

Yeah I imagine we will see fewer full glass cannon thieves which I fully welcome. It is completely ridiculous to be hit with an over 10k backstab from an invisible enemy on a fully knight geared warrior. At least now I have 4 seconds afterwards to smash them with my hammer.

The thing about this is nothing will change in this situation. They already were getting the debuff by backstabbing you fro 10K. This will be exactly the same before and after patch.

jazzllanna.1278:

Stiv.1820:

jazzllanna.1278:

Maxtofunator.5976:

You only get the revealed debuff currently when a THIEF skill stealths you, all mesmer skills will let you stealth as many times as you want, however, with this new patch, they talked about maybe adding it to all mesmer skills as well

This is incorrect. Just go into the mists and test on a dummy there. You get revealed with every mesmer stealth skill if you attack out of it. I tested it this morning.

The addition they are adding is if you break stealth without attacking so as of right now even with mesmer skills if you do not attack you do not get the reveal debuff— but I am pretty sure that it will be added with the thief skills to show regardless of attack or not.

So decoy does cause reveal then? Then the buff should be changed to match Torch4/MassInvis so that it can stack.

Yes it gives it just tested again to make sure. Every stealth skill that you use and then attack gives it to you. Now if you use decoy and do not attack you do not get the debuff.. that is true for every mesmer stealth skill.. but 1 auto attack and you break stealth and get the debuff.

(it is that little eye thing on my bar there)

Right, so we can assume after this months patch we will get reveal no matter what after each so we can’t chain them one after another quickly. We have to wait 3 sec between. Just sucks Decoy doesn’t stack with others for zerg jukeing purposes.

jazzllanna.1278:

Maxtofunator.5976:

You only get the revealed debuff currently when a THIEF skill stealths you, all mesmer skills will let you stealth as many times as you want, however, with this new patch, they talked about maybe adding it to all mesmer skills as well

This is incorrect. Just go into the mists and test on a dummy there. You get revealed with every mesmer stealth skill if you attack out of it. I tested it this morning.

The addition they are adding is if you break stealth without attacking so as of right now even with mesmer skills if you do not attack you do not get the reveal debuff— but I am pretty sure that it will be added with the thief skills to show regardless of attack or not.

So decoy does cause reveal then? Then the buff should be changed to match Torch4/MassInvis so that it can stack.

I’m pretty sure reveal never kicks on for Mesmer abilities at all. I’ve never noticed it on mine at least. I play both Mesmer and Thief. So unless they add it to Mesmer, nothing with change with their stuff.

edit: nevermind, confirmed Mesmers also currently use same reveled mechanic so they will be effected.

Maxtofunator.5976:

You only get the revealed debuff currently when a THIEF skill stealths you, all mesmer skills will let you stealth as many times as you want, however, with this new patch, they talked about maybe adding it to all mesmer skills as well

Ok thanks that is what I was thinking. I don’t ever recall revealed as a Mesmer using Mesmer stealth.

Allowing zergs to tag people for full XP is a terrible design decision that will make this entire system meaningless.

The world experiences for a kill should be split evenly with anyone in the party(s) that contributed to the kill. Pretty simple.

Say a single player kill is 100xp

Group of 5 kills 1, each gets 20xp

2 separate groups of 5 kill 1, each person gets 10xp

Zerg of 100 kills 1, each gets 1xp.

If you solo someone yourself you get 100xp.

Pretty simple!

edit: Seriously Anet, reconsider this. It’s going to be a big make or break it point vs this game and TES.

pixieish.9627:

If this actually happens, I will enjoy every single sweet delicious tear of every thief thought they were “skilled”.

This won’t help the Thief QQers at all. They are still going to die horrible deaths in front of their zergling friends and QQ for more nerfs. Don’t you worry.

UnknownFreak.2805:

Yes, every class can get stealthed, some may need another player to give them stealth, but revealed is for every class

What about decoy? It doesn’t give the stealth icon and doesn’t stack?

Auesis.7301:

Edenwolf.6328:

Auesis.7301:

On another note, Mug is also supposedly being nerfed. While I never use the burst build that incorporates it, what’s the point of having the trait at all if the damage is non-significant? Instead of doing damage at all, it should be something like a short knockback that steals one boon. That sounds more “Mug”-ish to me, and it can be incorporated in to multiple builds as it’s not for one cheesy burst that was the complaint the devs themselves had about the trait.

Ive been hit for 8k by mug out in wvw, this is just crazy on top of the other hits. 8k mug, 8k cloak and dagger, 8k+ backstab all in 1.5 seconds = anyone dead. Yes I know cloak and dagger recieved a nerf, but out in wvw I still get hit by the occasional 8k surprisingly. IMO mug should only be critting for 3k max, 8k is just silly.

You just ignored everything I said. Completely.

It would be pretty cool if Mug got the old Peg Leg effect attached to it… great for kittenin the JP.

TheGuy.3568:

Stiv.1820:

Stealth will be hardly nerfed. People are overreacting.

They talked about buffs they were looking at:

More mobility
A trait/mechanic to counter boon heavy targets

Yeah but this is what I saw. We re definitely getting stealth nerfed and maybe (note they said testing) well get the other 2. oO we maybe nerfed to uselessness for months and then they will throw us a bone. Seems fair right?

You don’t think “nerfed to uselessness” is overreacting?

You can still stealth exactly as before. You can still stack stealth for long duration (fall trait + Blinding powder + Hide in Shadows for instance or D/P over blind fields). The only change is you can’t re-stealth right away after exiting when you didn’t attack. We just have to play those situations a bit differently.

Stealth will be hardly nerfed. People are overreacting.

They talked about buffs they were looking at:

More mobility
A trait/mechanic to counter boon heavy targets

Heinel.6548:

I hope they don’t nerf boon removal on shatter. It’s the only effective counter to DD ele and Guardian bunkers in the entire meta. If anything, the other anti-boon abilities really need to be brought up.

They said they will introduce a “Boon Hate” mechanic via traits to Thieves and Wars to plug that hole.

Master of Timespace.2548:

Stiv.1820:

Master of Timespace.2548:

Stiv.1820:

Master of Timespace.2548:

Karolis.4261:

Cirax.9231:

This is a good change that won’t impact good thieves, and only the bad ones that rely on chain stealthing (repeated CnD on PvE mobs, blackpowder/HS spam).

So tahts what I said, this wont impact GC zerker 1 combo kill builds ( which you are refering as to “skilled thiefs”), but will fk up stealth builds that relly on CnD or Black powder/hs combo to survive till their next opening who are completally skilless compared to google copied gc zerker 1 combo thiefs. Yea, thats about it.

Yah, this. This nerf only touches the skill based builds, but the gimmicky instagib crap remains the same.

They said they were going to re-work Mug as well. It probably will be replaced with the boon hate mechanic or turned into some sort of synergy instead of raw damage. It will be a nerf to that combo.

Then everyone just rolls a p/d (I certainly will), which is currently by far, the most broken build in the game.

It’s not that broken. Most of the time a P/D runs to mobs to chain C&D when they get in trouble. They will be hit by the reveal change harder than any other spec.

Don’t forget about + mobility and + boon hate. Thieves have the hardest time taking down heavy boon targets, with boon hate we will counter them. It’s just going to normalize us a bit instead of making us completely avoid bunker guards/eles and the like.

I quess by heavy-boon builds you mean another broken build, d/d ele? But what do you mean by boon-hate?

Boon hate is a new mechanic they are going to introduce to thieves and maybe warriors. An example would be a trait that you pick that does +X% damage per boon on your target. Perhaps something that even ignores protection. Basically turning thieves who spec for it into a pretty hard counter to boon bunkers (Ele’s/Guards).

Thieves will probably want to avoid drinking stolen Mesmer juice vs one another with this out there…

I’ve never noticed it playing mine. I figured it was a Thief only mechanic. That may be because I don’t tend to attack directly out of stealth as often. Just curious if that change will effect us as it is common to chain a decoy into a torch 4 for instance.

I’m also curious since Decoy does not stack with other forms of stealth if it would ignore reveal (making this a non issue)?

Sebrent.3625:

Stiv.1820:

I never even noticed reveal on a Mesmer? Is it a thing? The stelath don’t stack like a Thief, decoy is it’s own boon that overlaps with MassInvis or Torch4. Do they even use that mechanic?

You never noticed it probably because most Mesmers you faced didn’t break stealth by attacking and/or didn’t take more than one stealth skill.

I mean playing my memser. I have never noticed having reveal, maybe because I don’t attack from stealth directly ever unless it’s to Shatter. Still, decoy does not stack with other stealth, I know that for sure.

I run decoy, torch and MassInvis for stealth. I think we will still be able to get away doing all three of those back to back. MassInvis and Torch4 do stack so you can avoid revel by timing it if you are running. I wonder if decoy will stealth you under revel since it’s a separate type of buff? I’m going to mess around with this tonight.

MIrra.3604:

Stiv.1820:

Gamblit.5041:

Last Refuge Use Blinding Powder when your health reaches 25% (90-second cooldown.
Descent of Shadows Release blinding powder when you take falling damage. Take 50% less damage from falling.

Instinctual Response Use feathers to blind and stealth when you take more than 10% of your health in a single strike. This effect can only trigger once every 60 seconds.

Now we have Traits that gives us 3 second reveal debuff every time we hit 25% HP, or fall down, or on hit.

Hip hip Hooray for 3 useless traits now!

I don’t see how this changes these traits. I can’t think of one time I took fall damage then instantly had to go into stealth when stealth wore off?

Last refuge and DiS are still the same as well. They are only good if you aren’t fighting to begin with otherwise they would boht screw you over with reveal anyway. Nothing changes there.

Don’t forget they are going to bump our mobility as well. So if you need to get away, you will be able to when any one of those pop (we already can for the most part)

Anet also said they will buff Ranger’s useless utilities and it has been 5 months…

Buffs/nerfs will be in the game if they say it is in the patch note like they did with the reveal debuff.

If not, everything is subject to change and based on their track record I wouldn’t hold my breath (regarding the buffs).

Well the reveal change by itself isn’t that bad. I would only be sad if they removed Mug and did not add anything else. Hopefully they at least release the Mug nerf with the rest of the package.

Master of Timespace.2548:

Stiv.1820:

Master of Timespace.2548:

Karolis.4261:

Cirax.9231:

This is a good change that won’t impact good thieves, and only the bad ones that rely on chain stealthing (repeated CnD on PvE mobs, blackpowder/HS spam).

So tahts what I said, this wont impact GC zerker 1 combo kill builds ( which you are refering as to “skilled thiefs”), but will fk up stealth builds that relly on CnD or Black powder/hs combo to survive till their next opening who are completally skilless compared to google copied gc zerker 1 combo thiefs. Yea, thats about it.

Yah, this. This nerf only touches the skill based builds, but the gimmicky instagib crap remains the same.

They said they were going to re-work Mug as well. It probably will be replaced with the boon hate mechanic or turned into some sort of synergy instead of raw damage. It will be a nerf to that combo.

Then everyone just rolls a p/d (I certainly will), which is currently by far, the most broken build in the game.

It’s not that broken. Most of the time a P/D runs to mobs to chain C&D when they get in trouble. They will be hit by the reveal change harder than any other spec.

Don’t forget about + mobility and + boon hate. Thieves have the hardest time taking down heavy boon targets, with boon hate we will counter them. It’s just going to normalize us a bit instead of making us completely avoid bunker guards/eles and the like.

Sebrent.3625:

Seeing as how you can move your traits and utilities around to compensate for this, I’d spend more time planning on how to survive for 3 seconds (lol) than I would complaining about it.

Try it before you knock it.

If people really want to, get 15 in acro and use the 40% endo regen food. Perma vigor with Feline Grace… pretty much endless evades.

Sebrent.3625:

oZii.2864:

Stiv.1820:

We will still have the same stealth as before if you were actually killing somebody. The only real nerf to my play-style is I can no longer go for a steal-stab then choose to back off and do BP^HS^Mug^BS as soon as stealth wears off.

The changes sound like:

No non stacked chain stealth (not going to effect refuge, he clearly said when you exist stealth and used the C&D spam example)
Mug dmg reduction or removal
More mobility
Anti boon mechanics

Mobility is just as powerful as stealth. They want us to be more mobile than Eles and we will still have the same combat stealth as before. If you were fighting to kill someone you won’t even notice the changes and now when we do run, no one will be able to keep up. All the while they want us to be able to slice thru boon tanks like butter. Sounds ok to me.

I think if you are an aggressive thief that knows when to get back off you wont really notice a difference. There will be some adjustments for all thieves it just depended on your playstyle.

I never really zerg surfed. Most of the time I would hop in to kill someone and before anyone could react reveal was over anyway and I could restealth. Im on the same page it sound fine to me honestly.

If I had to choose between the ridiculous suggestion I seen in these forums (damage break stealth rofl) and this I’m ok with this.

People can still be trolled and that is what is important!

Yep! That trolling will just require a bit more skill as you will be forced to unstealth for 3 seconds which makes it appear fine in my book.

I’m actually more concerned about it being too big of a nerf for the thief (where’s your compensation?) than I am it not being enough of a nerf… but it’s not a big concern. Those 3 seconds are much less time than many other classes have to deal with being visible.

I’m more concerned about my Mesmer’s ability to escape now.

They said they would give Thief more mobility and boon hate mechanics.

I never even noticed reveal on a Mesmer? Is it a thing? The stelath don’t stack like a Thief, decoy is it’s own boon that overlaps with MassInvis or Torch4. Do they even use that mechanic?

Gamblit.5041:

Last Refuge Use Blinding Powder when your health reaches 25% (90-second cooldown.
Descent of Shadows Release blinding powder when you take falling damage. Take 50% less damage from falling.

Instinctual Response Use feathers to blind and stealth when you take more than 10% of your health in a single strike. This effect can only trigger once every 60 seconds.

Now we have Traits that gives us 3 second reveal debuff every time we hit 25% HP, or fall down, or on hit.

Hip hip Hooray for 3 useless traits now!

I don’t see how this changes these traits. I can’t think of one time I took fall damage then instantly had to go into stealth when stealth wore off?

Last refuge and DiS are still the same as well. They are only good if you aren’t fighting to begin with otherwise they would boht screw you over with reveal anyway. Nothing changes there.

Don’t forget they are going to bump our mobility as well. So if you need to get away, you will be able to when any one of those pop (we already can for the most part)

Master of Timespace.2548:

Karolis.4261:

Cirax.9231:

This is a good change that won’t impact good thieves, and only the bad ones that rely on chain stealthing (repeated CnD on PvE mobs, blackpowder/HS spam).

So tahts what I said, this wont impact GC zerker 1 combo kill builds ( which you are refering as to “skilled thiefs”), but will fk up stealth builds that relly on CnD or Black powder/hs combo to survive till their next opening who are completally skilless compared to google copied gc zerker 1 combo thiefs. Yea, thats about it.

Yah, this. This nerf only touches the skill based builds, but the gimmicky instagib crap remains the same.

They said they were going to re-work Mug as well. It probably will be replaced with the boon hate mechanic or turned into some sort of synergy instead of raw damage. It will be a nerf to that combo.

The only Thieves this is going to effect are the QQers who re-rolled Thief. I’ll take my higher mobility and boon hate and be happy to add Eles and Guards to the “easy out” list.

We will still have the same stealth as before if you were actually killing somebody. The only real nerf to my play-style is I can no longer go for a steal-stab then choose to back off and do BP^HS^Mug^BS as soon as stealth wears off.

The changes sound like:

No non stacked chain stealth (not going to effect refuge, he clearly said when you exist stealth and used the C&D spam example)
Mug dmg reduction or removal
More mobility
Anti boon mechanics

Mobility is just as powerful as stealth. They want us to be more mobile than Eles and we will still have the same combat stealth as before. If you were fighting to kill someone you won’t even notice the changes and now when we do run, no one will be able to keep up. All the while they want us to be able to slice thru boon tanks like butter. Sounds ok to me.

Cygnus.6903:

ensoriki.5789:

They explained part of the reason Thief has such high damage was to power through boons. However they feel it’s possible to give them boon removal so they can deconstruct defenses, but in return they don’t need such high damage.

So right now we can’t kill bunker ele/guardians because they have crazy buffs, and after the patch we can’t kill them because our damage is too low… I’ll just continue to avoid bunkers, not worth the time.

But how are those classes getting butkittened?

We have no idea how the mechanic will work.. what if it’s 10% dmg per boon on your target? What if we get a trait that ignores protection?

The main thing is they still want us to be a heavy damage prof that can take down injured players very quickly along with having the highest mobility and stealth.

TheGuy.3568:

Stiv.1820:

Learn 2 adapt!

15char

Go DD spam 3? Just asking

I don’t know… how often do you chain stealth? If you want to chain, go D/P and trait init regen. Nothing indicates you can’t stack/chain a bunch of stealth together. This only effects the uber trolls who are usually trops/poison arrowing from stealth. It also makes it so D/P thieves who spec more for damage can’t chain as quickly, although it won’t do much because good because you can just sit in your smoke in relative safety then HS out when reveal drops. It for sure will make thief vs thief a lot less of a waist of time.

To add to all of this, they said they would be giving thieves “boon hate” which will make us do more damage the more boons are on our target. They said they want us to be the king of mobility even over the Ele so we are going to get more shortbow style mobility on our other weapon-sets. There may be a Mug nerf in there but no real detail. Sounds like they want Mug to work more with stealth instead of just being anytime damage. Overall the total package still looks good. They want us to be the kings of skirmishing an mobility. Imagine if we had Ele’s mobility…

RedSpectrum.1975:

Stiv.1820:

RedSpectrum.1975:

Stiv.1820:

Learn 2 adapt!

15char

Yeah how well did that work out for the dinosaurs? The velociraptors were experts in the art of stealth and ever since that K-T Event patch hit nerfing every class, the entire system fell. The same will happen to us man.

Haha what? So this is like a meteor hitting the Thief planet? This doesn’t have any effect on any normal fight. It will make Thief vs Thief way less annoying for one. Even 1v5 or so, you come out and take a few swings then re-enter stelath otherwise you aren’t doing any damage. It only stops Thieves from doing C&D DPS every 3 seconds to regen health instead of running to reset if they start losing. Really not a big deal. You will still be able to bail when you are starting to go down, you just can’t actually stay in the middle of the 5 of them and regen all your health. If they were going to nerf stealth, this is probably the best case scenario.

Haha what? Did you actually take that post seriously? I start comparing us to dinosaurs, and you take me seriously? Come on now. My only gripe with this is I have two weeks to get a face full of potential zerg slaying because after this patch oh boy.

Lol sorry, my bad. Must be tired…

mompen.7952:

@Stiv: Thanks for the tip(s)! Will test it out Specially the mug-thingy. sounds interesting!

I just bought some green stuff, and alltho I look like a complete kitten my stats has gone up a little at least compared to what they where

So guess I’ll go farm for tokens then!

No probs! That’s a lot better. Fill the armor with Ruby orbs too if you have the silver, they are pretty cheap.

RedSpectrum.1975:

Stiv.1820:

Learn 2 adapt!

15char

Yeah how well did that work out for the dinosaurs? The velociraptors were experts in the art of stealth and ever since that K-T Event patch hit nerfing every class, the entire system fell. The same will happen to us man.

Haha what? So this is like a meteor hitting the Thief planet? This doesn’t have any effect on any normal fight. It will make Thief vs Thief way less annoying for one. Even 1v5 or so, you come out and take a few swings then re-enter stelath otherwise you aren’t doing any damage. It only stops Thieves from doing C&D DPS every 3 seconds to regen health instead of running to reset if they start losing. Really not a big deal. You will still be able to bail when you are starting to go down, you just can’t actually stay in the middle of the 5 of them and regen all your health. If they were going to nerf stealth, this is probably the best case scenario.

Learn 2 adapt!

15char

doesn’t even seem that bad. The only class you need to worry about being in stealth like that vs is another thief. This will just quiken the cat and mouse. Also hardly effects D/P as they don’t “come out” until they want to.

Also your spec is solid but once you get your gear in order, try out moving the 10 from acro to deadly to get mug. You will sacrifice some mobility (you are using sig of shadows anyway) for a nasty burst combo. Get behind someone and B-Vendom^BlackPowder^HeartSeeker^Steal(in mid air)^Backstab. You can do it from the front, just have to position for backstab which gives them more time to react. It also opens up “stealstab” which is simply opening from refuge or other form of stealth with backstab+steal at the same time. You can trigger backstab and hit steal in it’s animation, steal will actually hit first but backstab will complete. This can be done from 900 range behind someone if you are in stealth.

mompen.7952:

one last thing, is there a good laurel-backpiece or something that fits zerker I could buy?

Yea, not you, that gear is meant for vanity skin more than anything.

Laurels I would save for Ascended gear only (if you are in for the long term buy the zerker stat amulet first for 30 if you want to play with different specs save them). It’s the best in the game but no, there is no cheap back-piece for zerker aside from 5-gold for the rare guild one which I don’t really consider cheap. You can buy that and throw a exquisite ruby jewel in it and be good to go though. Alternately, there is a P/V/T exotic backslot in the temple of Grenth for 42K karma you can toss a exquisite ruby jewel in as well and get by (or super cheap option P/V/T rare back, search TP for “spineguard”).

If you want to go balls out, craft a Quiver of Swift Flight. It’s the best zerker back slot available but is very expensive and requires a lot of farming. More of a long term goal. 250 vial of powerful blood, 50 ectos, 1 vial of mist essanse (fotm 1-9) and a bunch of skill points, wiki it for exact items.

oZii went from Thief to War. I went from Thief to Mesmer. Both of us have no problems killing thieves on our new prof. If he’s the same as me he probably actually guns for them.

I personally don’t have the time or will to level and fully gear another char for WvW especially now with more Ascended junk coming out but I’m sure we would have the same experiences with almost any prof. I think the point is, Thieves are balanced if you understand them. They are OP when you know jack. They are also OP if you consider not killing them a loss when they run from you. A very good thief needs to be baited to over-commit in order to get stomped. Luckily though there are 9 free kill thieves for every 1 good one, probably all the QQers re-rolling and realizing they still suck.

Turn on friendly fire and player clipping (both friend and foe). Problem solved and we have a much more interesting game

Another good stealthless build is condition based D/D – D/D, 0/0/0/30/30 evade tank build with dodge trops, init regen, init on swap, evade spam and init/vigor heals etc. Just DeathBlossom the crap out of stuff with sig of malice, roll for init, trops, shadowstep.

oZii.2864:

I’m playing my warrior now at level 80 and the damage my warrior does laughs at thief damage seriously.

Playing the 2 classes with highest possible damage. The warrior gets away with glass cannon way more than a thief it has traits so you can do that.

I have 2.6k armor on my warrior, 2.1k power, 56% crit chance, 65% at level 3 adrenaline, and 97% crit damage. With 20.7k hip rofl that blows my thief out the water.

The one thing the thief has over warrior is just the fact that you dictate if the fight is going to happen or not and can disengage easier than any other class.

With that said my warriors mobility is fine with 30 secs of swiftness every 48 seconds so only 18 secs that I don’t have swiftness. I have no mobility issues and I don’t run war horn.

These arguments of dodges etc and that you can see attacks are silly. Of course you can’t see everything a person that is invisible but unless you are running some super dodge build you have no way to dodge everything.

I can 7k-9k eviscerate every 10 secs. 100bs every 8, whirlwind every 12, a bola pretty much will let you hit a full 100bs without frenzy provided they have no stun breakers.

The only high damage skill I have found that is hard to land is 100bs without frenzy. A shield, bash, bull rush, hydro many sigil easily help with that problem.

A person who is thinking is going to make you blow CDs no matter the class I do it on my thief and I do it on my warrior now. So what am I saying ? Thief is fine and I love warrior too!!

Hundudburrds is the best stomp in the game too. If you only use it to stomp people it’s still an awesome skill. Changes downed state from an annoyance (thief perspective) to a good thing, same with shatter mesmers. <3 downed state there.. hate it on Thief.

Maybe they could add swiftness to any clone generating ability and allow them to be used without a target (like staff2)? That way we trade off a cool-down that may not be up at the start of a fight for mobility?

koroshi.2658:

I actually might record some engi vs thief footage. So much fun. Dislike wasting the supply drop just for that engage on thief… that aoe stun can save your life.

On my thief I avoid/run from SD. It’s got to be one of the more powerful elites out there. Your own little home base. Too bad you can’t trait it to be a little tank on wheels that moves at 50% speed or something. Would be erserm.

Timbo Jimbo.5927:

Yeah I have hidden killer for the 100% crit and I do run the trait for 7 percent increase from the sides or behind. Some guy in game was just trolling me because my crit chance was to low lol but glad to see I am in normal range.

Id swap hidden killer to 20% @ <50% health. The reason is even with 38% base chance.. when you are over 90% health and backstabbing it’s really 50% so your big 30 point trait is actually being wasted 50% of the time since they would have been crits anyway. Instead they could be doing 20% more dmg on low health targets and you get that 20% dmg for all hits < 50% so it is more bang for that trait.

If you want to try something fun, go D/D + D/D. You already got mobility from heartseeker so it’s viable. You actually only need 3 daggers. On the main hands put superior sigils of intelligence. On the offhand put Force (not a proc one because it screws up the int sigil). Now you can stealth and then swap weapons to get a 100% crit backstab every 10 seconds and also have 20% more dmg to <50% health.

Depends on how much you love Shortbow.