Guild Wars 2

Rayya.2591:

is sword/dagger -thief
sword daze you for 2 seconds when he come out of stealth
best counter for this build is constant blind /dodge , an stun breaker won’t help you too much

He said it was AoE stunned that hit him as well as the rest of the group. It was gears. OP consumable that works in WvW.

There is nothing stopping someone from running p/d & p/p (Rampager’s maybe would work). They just loose any form of combat movement. Due to swap timers though they would not be able to be in stealth 99.99999999999999999% of the time though.

Probably the Gear consumable. Prob will get the nerfbat like the Golem boxes.

EasymodeX.4062:

You happen to be somewhere in the middle therefore you perceive anything beyond your reaction time as OP. When in reality you are just a tad slow.

Human reaction to something they are prepared and waiting for is 0.18-0.3 seconds.

Watching for a Thief CND at 900 range gives you 0.2s of slack time.

Also, this assumes:

1. The player is drawn (lol WvW).
2. You identify the player.
3. You identify the player as a Thief.
4. You identify the player as a Thief with a Dagger offhand (can be assumed after #3).
5. You can discern the CND animation at 900 range (can be assumed with risk after #3 — e.g. wasting dodges just because you see a Thief is kind of silly, but this is where you want to go with your argument, so why not).

The basic model is “dodge by premonition, or die”. At least the CND-Mug-BS combo no longer deals 35,000 damage like it did back with Orbs in WvW.

RTL has a 2.0s travel time (max range) down to 1.0s travel time (midrange).

I’ve been 100-0’d by Ele burst something like twice since release. The animation is rather obvious, you know?

I never said I have a problem with it.

You cite it as dangerous. What is a poor scrub like me to think when a random poster on the forum is citing the biggest joke of a burst damage ability as dangerous?

Unfortunately I’m just a random baddie, so I need big flashy animations like a hugeass ball of lightning hurtling towards me to react properly, and my feelings are hurt when I insta-die from scary Thieves.

No you don’t need to dodge the C&D. You can but that requires some luck and guesswork. I prefer not to randomly use endurance. You have to be able to eat a C&D+Mug both crits then react before the backstab. If you die to C&D+Mug by itself then it’s a build problem. If you die to the backstab after it’s a reaction time issue, especially if you build smart and take an auto defensive cool-down to help protect against these things.

I also don’t understand the people who complain about a Thief coming in and ruining their 1v2 or whatever they are doing. People get killed by a thief when they are fighting two other people at half health and everything on cool-down then come here to complain about their burst. If a Thief killing a softened, distracted, outnumbered target isn’t a legit kill then I don’t know what is.

I really don’t see them nerfing mug. Thief burst is the bread and butter for them in tPvP. Without it they are useless. They aren’t going to touch it unless they do an entire overhaul unless they are willing to let the profession become useless at the high end.

EasymodeX.4062:

Stiv.1820:

EasymodeX.4062:

A Thief kills you before pure reaction is possible.

Here is the crux of the problem. This statement is personal to you. They kill you before reaction is possible for you. Not for me, not for many others. I know it’s hard, but not everyone is equal and Anet does not need to balance for the lowest common denominator.

Hehe lowest common denominator hehe.

You’re the one that has problems with Hundred Blades.

I’ve died to it maybe twice since this game went open beta.

Crux of the problem is that you have a cognitive dissonance where you perceive a Thief’s 0.5s burst to be equivalent to another class’s 3.5 second burst.

You perceive a Warrior’s 1.75s Kill Shot, or almost 1s Bull’s Rush + 3.5s HB, or a Mesmer’s 0.75s MB + 0.75s iB + instant F3 + 0.25 MI + instant dodge + instant F1 …

You perceive these 1.75 – 4.5s sequences to be “as fast” as your own 0.5-0.75s sequence.

This error in perception is personal to you, although you share it with a lot of Thieves.

I never said I have a problem with it. Utilities can be used by all professions to get out of these things. Bads have problems with it the same as they have problems with thief burst. It’s just differing levels of bads. Some can handle .5 sec reactions, some can handle 1 sec reactions, some can handle all. You happen to be somewhere in the middle therefore you perceive anything beyond your reaction time as OP. When in reality you are just a tad slow.

Half the burst you mentioned is AoE, thief is single target. Hundred blades happens to be one of the best “stomping” abilities in the game. Mesmer burst can down many players at once for the price f their 1 second longer burst, they also can do it twice as often while having much more tank as a GC spec. It’s called balance.

EasymodeX.4062:

A Thief kills you before pure reaction is possible.

Here is the crux of the problem. This statement is personal to you. They kill you before reaction is possible for you. Not for me, not for many others. I know it’s hard, but not everyone is equal and Anet does not need to balance for the lowest common denominator.

EasymodeX.4062:

What you are talking about is not having situational awareness. You know what direction people will likely be coming from, it’s not hard to have that in the back of your mind while you are fighting/strafing around.

In sPvP, sure. WvW tends to be more dynamic, especially with culling.

Most thieves run a signet, same with all other professions, takes just targeting them for a second to know what they are.

A second is about twice as long as you have before you die.

It really doesn’t matter because any GC build will ruin your day in a 1vN fight so you need to assume that’s what you dealing with until you know for sure.

You can react to glass specs of any class — except a BS Thief.

I personally always turn my attention to Thieves when they show up for two obvious reasons. They are the highest, fastest burst risk and they are the easiest to kill and stomp.

Warriors are infinitely easier to kill and stomp. Thieves are among the more obnoxious classes.

AoE/Cleave will keep a GC thief downed and cripple their rezer at the same time.

That sounds a lot different from, say, all the other classes in the game.

If you are any good at FPS games

I’m relatively proficient at FPS games.

you should have no problem avoiding this, there is no need to dumb down GW2 for you and others like you for the same reason they will never remove head-shot damage from Counter Strike. The game requires twitch, sorry.

The only real mechanic that “requires twitch” in this entire game is to pre-emptively counter 1 build from 1 class.

I suppose the lesson here is that all players should roll Thieves. Sounds like balance to me.

I can’t tell if you don’t really play against good players or what. Any warrior who simply opens up with Frenzy+Bull+100b is a noob. Good ones are extremely hard to deal with and mix it up a lot more. Usually GS + S/Sh or Ax/Sh. Good warrios either count evades or Bullrush as soon as you start an evade (ermergerd takes twitch) which makes it impossible to avoid. Are you saying it doesn’t take twitch to avoid GS#3? That can down a thief in one shot if it hits more than once.

It takes twitch to avoid mesmer pulls (borderline impossible), hammer hits from both guards and wars. It takes twitch and positioning to avoid mesmer burst, a teleport+churning earth. It takes a ton of awareness to avoid killshot and is especially hard if you didn’t see them start it, just see it mid channel (we are talking about being previously distracted here right?). Tons more examples.. getting out of net+100nades.. it goes on and on.

Yes it takes twitch to avoid Thief burst but the difference between all of the above and Thief is all of those examples are just run of the mill abilities that once used hardly effect those profession’s fighting power. If you avoid thief burst, they are out of the fight for ~45 seconds or dead, their choice (unless there is high mobility or range on the enemy side then just dead). The benefit they get is the most condensed single target burst in the game but yes, it’s avoidable.

Magiofdeath.2745:

I find it really funny that the only people that disagree with thieves being OP are the ones that main a thief. It would be a tragedy if the easiest class to play in PvP/WvW were nerfed rite? There’s a reason you see more thieves in pvp than pve – they suck in pve. Every thief I’ve been with in fractals dies left and right. The only useful thing I have seen from a thief in PvE is using the control panel in underground fractal, but anyone with ash legion spy kit can do the same.

What you don’t get is GW2 is so alt friendly I’d say a majority of players have multiple 80’s likely fully geared. If not, they have alts for sPvP. The trend is people who have a Thief character at all don’t complain because they understand the mechanics fully and have no problem dealing with it on any of their other professions that they happen to play. People who complain tend to not understand the game yet and have never invested time playing the Thief. No, you cannot get away with not knowing everything about your enemy in this game, no matter what profession and expect to be successful outside of just zerging.

lettucemode.3789:

No balance changes, but culling will get fixed a bit more and as a result thieves will be perceived as weaker than before.

Culling is such an overblown scapegoat though. I can’t wait until they fix it then the whiners realize it had nothing to do with why they were loosing. The only time it’s an issue is extreme zerg situations anyway which individual professions hardly matter at all.

EasymodeX.4062:

I’m always on the lookout for Thieves adding on. It’s not hard to see someone approaching. I don’t zerg so maybe that’s your problem?

Lol, nice one. “You must be zergling lulz”.

No.

Incidentally most fights rarely last as a 1v1, if they ever even begin as 1v1. Random adds from 2-5 players is a common occurrence.

Also, if you have the time to “be on the lookout” in all directions for Thieves adding to the fight, then the fight you were part of must have been a joke.

Not to mention the +0.5 seconds it takes to identify the incoming player as a Thief.

If they don’t b-venom then it’s the tink tink of daggers and your health chunked down.

If they haven’t already executed BS by the time you hear the “tink tink” of daggers, they are horrible and should delete their characters.

Either way, there is plenty of time to react between C&D and backstab.

There’s 0.25 seconds between the damgae of CND and the Backstab.

Regardless, this is still massively faster and less counterable than any other class’s kill combo.

It requires pre-action whereas all others can be countered via reaction. This is a common issue with stealth burst in other MMORPGs and while ANet attempted to eliminate that with Thieves in GW2, they failed — primarily due to the mechanics of Steal, surprisingly enough, and not stealth at all.

A vast majority of the time I actually have .5 seconds to react which is more than enough. It takes them 2 back-stab animations to hit since they are blinded from last refuge after Mug+C&D. If they use b-venom it’s even easier to identify and shadowstep (yes a lot do use b-venom and so do I because it’ awesome post patch). Many other professions have it way better with auto immune and such.

What you are talking about is not having situational awareness. You know what direction people will likely be coming from, it’s not hard to have that in the back of your mind while you are fighting/strafing around.

If I’m in the middle of a fight, no matter 1 on 1 or 2 on 1 or 2 on 2 and there are adds coming, it doesn’t matter what class they are you need to make some decisions. Use some defensive abilities and take the time to target. Most thieves run a signet, same with all other professions, takes just targeting them for a second to know what they are. It really doesn’t matter because any GC build will ruin your day in a 1vN fight so you need to assume that’s what you dealing with until you know for sure.

I personally always turn my attention to Thieves when they show up for two obvious reasons. They are the highest, fastest burst risk and they are the easiest to kill and stomp. With any form of instant teleport they can’t interrupt the stomp and even if they do, AoE/Cleave will keep a GC thief downed and cripple their rezer at the same time.

If you are any good at FPS games you should have no problem avoiding this, there is no need to dumb down GW2 for you and others like you for the same reason they will never remove head-shot damage from Counter Strike. The game requires twitch, sorry.

oZii.2864:

Stiv.1820:

I don’t see any nerfs coming. Good players counter thieves and make for gereat fights. If you WvW and haven’t been pulled from at least 50% of your refuges then you are lucky. It didn’t get consistent until the last few weeks it seems. Maybe it’s just the new matchup.

Thieves are well and balanced assuming full knowledge of the game and a basic twitch skill level. People who complain don’t have the twitch or don’t understand mechanics, simple as that (assuming even gear/level). GW2 with it’s stun break system, active evades and mobile casting is the most twitch MMO I’ve ever played.

Yea I agree Stiv shadow refuge isn’t even safe anymore.

Yea it’s with full endurance you can roll in it or if you place it against a wall, at least you can protect yourself from a KB. I mostly now use it offensively. As a last ditch skill it really is not reliable anymore.

EasymodeX.4062:

Probably because a thief using this kill combo is far squishier than a rifle or greatsword warrior.

Except, not really.

CnD has an easy recognizable animation. You have to react when you see CnD, because when you are down it’s too late.

CND has a small animation and you have 0.25 seconds to recognize it at 900 range. Kill Shot is a blatant animation and you have 1.5 seconds to recognize it at 1500 range.

Order of magnitude of difference. Well, not quite. I guess it’s closer to 6x difference.

I have no problem avoiding C&D+Mug+BS with only 13K HP. You turn to stone before the Thief renders. That’s your queue to shadowstep.

1. You assume you know a Thief is there, when you are in WvW with active battles occurring.

2. You assume the Thief is bad and uses Basilisk in WvW, when it it completely unnecessary and telegraphs their position and actions.

3. Your sequence requires 0.25 reaction on the stun from Basilisk or you’re down.

I’d prefer to stick to realistic examples.

I’m always on the lookout for Thieves adding on. It’s not hard to see someone approaching. I don’t zerg so maybe that’s your problem? If you are complaining about balance while zerging then I don’t know what to tell you aside from that’s what downed state is for. You suffer from zerg distraction but also get zerg protection.

If they don’t b-venom then it’s the tink tink of daggers and your health chunked down. Either way, there is plenty of time to react between C&D and backstab. This isn’t even considering extra time due to last refuge in my case or any other auto defense abilities (C&D+Mug crits pretty much 100% puts me at <25%, having more health actually would hurt me in this case).

I have no problem avoiding C&D+Mug+BS with only 13K HP. You turn to stone before the Thief renders. That’s your queue to shadowstep. The harder combo to avoid is the pre stealth b-venom^backstab^Haste^autos^HS^Mug combo. The best way to avoid it is to simply kite away from any pre-casted refuge so they can’t do it. Being a thief though it’s whoever runs out of stealth first looses.

You could have a 5 v 5 going on and the Thieves can’t do anything but cat & mouse each other. As soon as one opens the other will instantly kill them.

I don’t see any nerfs coming. Good players counter thieves and make for gereat fights. If you WvW and haven’t been pulled from at least 50% of your refuges then you are lucky. It didn’t get consistent until the last few weeks it seems. Maybe it’s just the new matchup.

Thieves are well and balanced assuming full knowledge of the game and a basic twitch skill level. People who complain don’t have the twitch or don’t understand mechanics, simple as that (assuming even gear/level). GW2 with it’s stun break system, active evades and mobile casting is the most twitch MMO I’ve ever played.

Yes.

stealth + mobility + openworldpvp = alwaysagoodchoice

Sometimes it’s not in the bottom right one either. Is it only when you get to a certain level of WvW buff or whatever?

I got the vanity bug a few weeks ago and picked one up. I don’t regret it. I also farmed for a Jormag’s Breath sword to go with it. Love the combo. Currently working on another shard for my S/D – D/x build to finish it off. I’d say it’s defiantly worth it if you PvE for it. If you try to do it only in WvW then you will have a bad time. Farm the mobs in Frostgorge (that path west of Jormag) they drop T6 mats and the loadstones needed to craft it. Get someone to craft it for you instead of buying it straight up.

Just a warning because I did this, you cannot buy an Etched shard of whatever then turn it into Rage by adding a new sigil. Since it soul-binds when you add the sigil it won’t let you use it as a crafting material. So the Shaman’s Etched Shard of Rage is more expensive for that reason.

Maugetarr.6823:

From my history after I couldn’t find it in a search, YouTube came up with “this video removed by user. : /”. I’ll let you speculate as to the reason(s) why.

Aww kitten what a gem that video was. Now we will never get to see it again

Last night I posted in a thread here that was your every day “nerf thief” thread but it came with a video showing a P/D thief trolling a group from the groups point of view. It also included voice chat of the group. It was really good because it showed how clueless the people trying to fight the thief were, even the one playing a Thief themselves (he thought the Thief was hacking because he got steal-stomped for instance)

Does anyone have the link to this youtube vid? It sucks the mod deleted it. I guess because the OP and their guild looked like fools but it really was a case study on nerf Thief posts and should have been able to run it’s course imo.

Used to hate it but learned to live with it. Get creative. Add utilities/consumables to help stomp. Slot knockbacks or use a build with some cleave damage so you can hit both a downed person and the rezers at once to punish them. If you are duoing call out who is dps on the downed and who is stomping.

A Daggerstorming thief that is able to do any sort of meaningful damage with it has always been able to be killed by a single melee attacker with at least hybrid damage.

BlueprintLFE.2358:

I’ve never used them, but I bet it’s condition damage that hits you through the ice block.

You are defiantly immune to new conditions. I’m pretty sure you take damage from existing conditions though. For me, it almost always combines with the Last Refuge & con remove trait so I remove 1 condition right away and a 2nd one 3 seconds in. I wonder if traps/wells placed on top of the ice-block ignore it though.

I’m not sure where to pose this question so I’ll give it a shot here. I’ve been using these runes on my WvW Thief a while now. I have a love hate relationship with them. Mostly because they are buggy as hell. They do save me when I make a mistake quite a lot though so overall they are still worth it but lots of time I’ll still take damage while inside iceblock and die.

What I’m trying to figure out is, what kind of damage ignores the immunity effect of Iceblock? It seems like something necros can do does for sure but I can’t pinpoint it. Knowing what can kill us in iceblock will help in those situations where you let it happen on purpose or to shadow-step out faster if that kind of threat is around.

Anyone know the answer to this?

For dungeons can you do 5 x path 1 or do you have to do all paths 5 times?

Lucky Shot.7650:

I knew the “sidestab”, it’s just risky sometimes because you risk to end up hitting too close to the front and not getting bonus damage.

Also, I found out that backstab is really easy to counter once you know how to deal with it. Like Guardians pushing me away half mile with Shield of Absorption before I can land backstab, Necros fearing me while stealthed, Eles zapping all over the place while invulnerable, Warriors using Shield Stance, Endure Pain and stunning, knockdowning and knockbacking , Mesmer’s copies crippling and hitting while I’m stealthed…

So basically, how to deal with advanced players? Does a backstab build have the tools to adapt to such difficult fights?

As a glass cannon no it doesn’t. Good players will stomp you if you take them head on. Glass cannon back-stab builds kill good players only when they are distracted or have at least been previously pressed into blowing their key utilities.

If you really want to 1 on 1 and realize someone is actually competent try to bail out right away and re-engage later with short-bow. It should crit for 2-3K as a glass cannon and gives you the evades needed to force them to blow a few cooldowns, then swap to daggers and burst.

Experienced, skill players can easily avoid the heavy burst thieves. They really are the easiest target in the game. These aren’t the people complaining on the forums though.

Yep everyone is just mad we have a utility that is so good we feel like we have to use it. Every time I try to break myself of it I go back 15 minutes later when I fail a stomp I would have completed if I had SoS.

kash.9213:

Stiv.1820:

The simple loot bag change adds a lot of fun to WvW. Now we get a chest if there is better loot which is just something that kicks off lewt loving brain chemicals even if there is no real difference.

Why stop there? Let’s see bigger chests if a rare is inside and a ridiculous golden JP sized one if there is an exotic inside.

I’d rage as never before if there were a jumping puzzle size box sitting next to my corpse that will never get revived.

So in this case, ignorance is bliss I guess? You could wait there and beg people to rez you :P That is assuming it’s not totally overrun.

CrassBippy.4619:

I downed a thief in kaineng who just popped SR as he went down, waited and he never reappeared no bags or nothing, also a Mesmer who went invis, popped up about 10 seconds of runnin down the map. So screwy things are going on

Thief can get up from downed pretty easy if SR gets dropped right before. They usually wait it’s duration then port outside of it and start healing up. To counter this run a swirly yellow brick road pattern from the center outward autoattacking well beyond the limits of the SR circle. They are likely out there somewhere trying to heal and just one hit will cause you to see them before they get up fully. If you don’t hit them at all they will get up 100% of the time.

The simple loot bag change adds a lot of fun to WvW. Now we get a chest if there is better loot which is just something that kicks off lewt loving brain chemicals even if there is no real difference.

Why stop there? Let’s see bigger chests if a rare is inside and a ridiculous golden JP sized one if there is an exotic inside.

Debsylvania.7396:

Dusk dropped for me in a WvWvW loot bag two evenings ago. I was absolutely gobsmacked!

I wonder if these items will now show up in giant golden chests instead of bags? Or is the wooden box thing the max it goes to?

If you are fighting under water you are pretty durable between spear 2, 3 and 5. Both 2 and 5 dodge and 3 blocks and builds inti. For getting away, you can spam un-targeted spear 2. It will move you quick and dodge.

It works anywhere in the 180 degree arch behind them so you can get away with side stabs and such.

I primarily WvW and last patch I just assumed the daily PvP was going to reward a laurel. I was initially excited I’d be able to get double laurels per day but also a little annoyed I felt like I had another chore to do each day before I can do whatever I want. I’m sort of torn on this.

What I feel they really need is unique armor/weapons skins unlocked for purchase at each sPvP rank that can be skinned over on the PvE side. I think the cosmetic draw would get more people in sPvP and also get more sPvP playing WvW with their PvP armor bling. I have a feeling they are going to update WvW to have it’s own system for this though with the progression update.

SoS’s active is the best we have for stomps because it’s targetable and ranged. Besides using it on the stompee if a Guardian/Mesmer bro is coming to save them you can target them and blind them just before they get in knock-back range.

The only build at the top end is d/d backstab.

Shadowstep and refuge go hand in hand. Either to get away, step ^ refuge (zerg sees and starts moving toward it) return and gone. Or for offense, step in, kill return, refuge to cover.

If I feel like messing around and want to abuse culling I throw on zerker and trait for glass then do this rotation. It uses every cool-down you have each time you attack.

1) Find zerg
2) B-Venom
3) Stealth-Heal
4) Shadowstep into zerg
5) Find Target – Wait for stealth to end
6) MugSteal+C&D+BackStab+Haste+Kill+HasteStomp+SpamLootKey
7) ShadowReturn
8) Shadow refuge
9) Kaiser soze
Target can be 2100 units away and they will never see you if the zerg is big enough.

Another patch goes by and no Thief nerfs. The QQ train rolls on. It will never end but I think Anet is sending a pretty clear message to the whiners patch after patch.

Haha if you are looking for a hardcore PvE game that only rewards your commitment to grinding the game, you aren’t playing the right one. You know you can buy every legendary weapon with a credit card right?

For people who post solo Thief and Ele videos doing 1vN, the enemies they fight are all awesome at their profession. So, they are obviously OP.

Every time any other class posts a 1vN video their enemies are noobs who don’t know how to play. They must be right? Because the people playing those profs watching those videos can’t imagine doing that.

Lofat.2406:

I might give bloodlust a shot and see how it works.

Someone crunched the numbers on reddit and came up with bloodlust being only ~1% better than precision stacks anyway so no big deal.

Compared to para though, I’m sure it’s not as good. 1sec on every daze is amazing. I just think it’s not intended.

If you don’t have mug it won’t work on steal ever. It needs to do damage to stun.

Also it applies any venom to the swing, not the hit. If you swing and hit nothing, or your first shot of unload is 1 unit out of range, that will be the swing/shot basilisk venom is applied to and it will be wasted.

Those are the only rules I’m aware of with venom.

Babayum.9204:

Stiv.1820:

Babayum.9204:

Stiv.1820:

Problem is you need the 2 per 10 so unless you go 30 into acro it would be hard to pick up but then you don’t have those 10 points to put into crit or whatever to help your damage.

Hehe, i thought the same before i tried it out. Gain 2 Ini per 10 secs is nice and needed if you want to have 100% stealth uptime but im running without it and it works good enough. Stealth uptime is at around 80-90% if you start doing the rotation with full Ini.

I’m going with 0 / 20 / 30 / 20 / 0

VI, X
V, X, XI
VI, X

If don’t need Fleet Shadow i recommend Might on Dodge / Vigor on Healing

I use the same traits for S/D D/

I tried D/P on swap but didn’t like it. I think it’s because I replaced con remove with 2 init/stealth. I should have replaced blind. Might try it again. Still don’t think I could live without the 2/10 though. The set just eats up so much init.

Thats why it makes Assassins Reward so poweful

Yea I guess it’s just a balance of being init starved and not having access easy perma stealth but having some extra combat healing vs not init staved, perma stelath and no extra healing.

It would really depends on how many fights I would have lost due to not having the extra healing vs people who would get away or possible fights I would loose due to init starvation.

Not sure, just thinking about it, I think i’d still want the init. Will give it a whirl though since there is no reason not to :P

The problem isn’t so much a damage nerf directly it’s such drastic changes that could cause someone to not enjoy a particular weapon set or build anymore. If you spent a ton of effort getting+5 power on the ring but now you want to go condition you are just out of luck.

Say you really like the great-sword for your warrior so work hard to get a ledgendary. Then Anet makes a large change that makes you not want to use the Greatsowrd any longer for whatever reason. That would just suck. Any time/effort you put into anything can be wiped out due to a change that is counter to your particular tastes.

It would be nice if hard to acquire mystic forge crafted items, legendaries, etc could be salvaged into say 80% of their original parts to help with this. I personally have an exotic set and every weapon for my favorite class to play with all specs. I’m working on a forge item for my favorite weapon set but will always be scared they will change the spec I’m blinging out to not be the one I want to play any longer making all this effort a waist.

Babayum.9204:

Stiv.1820:

Problem is you need the 2 per 10 so unless you go 30 into acro it would be hard to pick up but then you don’t have those 10 points to put into crit or whatever to help your damage.

Hehe, i thought the same before i tried it out. Gain 2 Ini per 10 secs is nice and needed if you want to have 100% stealth uptime but im running without it and it works good enough. Stealth uptime is at around 80-90% if you start doing the rotation with full Ini.

I’m going with 0 / 20 / 30 / 20 / 0

VI, X
V, X, XI
VI, X

If don’t need Fleet Shadow i recommend Might on Dodge / Vigor on Healing

I use the same traits for S/D D/

I tried D/P on swap but didn’t like it. I think it’s because I replaced con remove with 2 init/stealth. I should have replaced blind. Might try it again. Still don’t think I could live without the 2/10 though. The set just eats up so much init.

Problem is you need the 2 per 10 so unless you go 30 into acro it would be hard to pick up but then you don’t have those 10 points to put into crit or whatever to help your damage.

Lofat.2406:

Stiv.1820:

Lofat.2406:

Thanks Shoogli! Paralyzation adds a full second to the daze. The other runes are superior sigils of ice and they do stack. I didn’t have those on the pistols for every fight in the video but they are the ones I’m sticking with. Having the Sigil of Paralyzation on the sword is a must. You need that extra second on the daze. The other sigils you can change out for whatever you want really, just as long as you keep the Paralyzation.

I’m avoiding using Para on my S/D combo because it will probably get fixed someday. I figure if I don’t ever use it I won’t have to get sad when it’s awesomeness is gone. So purposefulness gimping myself for now…

What are you using in place of paralyzation?

Right now I have precision stacking on sword (should be bloodlust but I’m cheap) and 5% dmg on offhand dagger. I have 100% crit on swap on the main hand swap dagger and no offhand so it uses the 5% dmg one by default.

ZLE.8293:

Doomdesire.9365:

They really need to adjust thieves

Nerfs :

1) Take away 5K HP from the base, to make sure theres a real risk
2)Remove stealth completely, it’s lame
3) 50% damage nerf. The fact that they can do so much damage is lame
4) Add cooldowns. At least 30 seconds for heartseeker, with 10 seconds for auto attack. All this on top of initiative

Buffs)

Everytime a thief uses steal, he will steal all of the enemy player’s money, which will be transferred into his inventory

That was the case of thieves in Ultima Online
They were wearing only simple robe w/o any gear and money,so if caught to not have anything to be looted from their corpse.

Best game ever. In beta there was no range on snoop/steal and you would see the item floating across the screen and go into the thieves character. That kind of game will never happen again since there are so many options. It had wolves and sheep all wrapped up into one perfect game.