Anet has confirmed removal of this consumable from WvW. We need to unite and make our voices heard. This is the best, most hilarious item in this game! Don’t let one random QQer take away our Plank Buster!
I don’t suppose you could remove the Pirate Peg Leg consumable as well from WvW?
Done! Thanks for letting us know.
Don’t remove these Anet, they are the best thing in this game and I mean the BEST. This one item has made me cry laughing. It’s so good for my health so please let them be.
I would never play this game if they made WvW just like sPvP. If anything I want more DAOC style progression in WvW. Fairness is fine for FPS and LoL but in my MMO I want things to be “fairly unfair” in an open world PvP environment. As in, everyone can easily max out but not everyone will due to whatever reasons. It’s fun to have awesome 1on1’s with great players and it’s just a fun to troll 10 uparrows trying to finish the JP.
Peg leg the downed person right after refuge. Simple solution that any prof can do. I assume you are talking about WvW because this scenario in sPvP would be a joke.
You don’t use AoE really you use cleave DPS where the downed person was. Yes, in the one situation where a Thief is rezing another Thief and they both get the full SR before the downed player teleports, your example probably ends up with the person getting up. As someone who runs Thief/Thief duo a lot that hardly ever happens. Most of the time the teleport has to be blown first. In fact it’ a huge part of the communication in that duo, yelling out when you are teleporting or telling them to stay put because you are about to blanket them with refuge. Dealing with Thief/Thief and downed state isn’t a fraction as annoying as dealing with Guard/Guard so…
Shadow step allows this to happen over and over again. I hate using anecdotal evidence but i was in a 1v2 of two thieves where i downed both of them around 4 times each over a 10 minute fight and they would revive each other every time with this tactic. I out leveled them and out geared them considerably as well.
Then you need to invest in a knockback or just buy some Pirate Peg Legs for karma. Anytime a Thief does this to me, I pull out a plank and bust the downed person (and likely the reser as well) out of refuge. If the downed person has already teleported I just use Sword#1 cleave chain and usually down them both.
I run CoF p1 with full zerk with D/D. Easily stand up with warriors and surpass them single target. We are also the fast gate busters. Can do it in about 4-5 seconds. People just ask for warriors because they are more forgiving to bad play in PvE and go down much less than the average Thief players.
You don’t use AoE really you use cleave DPS where the downed person was. Yes, in the one situation where a Thief is rezing another Thief and they both get the full SR before the downed player teleports, your example probably ends up with the person getting up. As someone who runs Thief/Thief duo a lot that hardly ever happens. Most of the time the teleport has to be blown first. In fact it’ a huge part of the communication in that duo, yelling out when you are teleporting or telling them to stay put because you are about to blanket them with refuge. Dealing with Thief/Thief and downed state isn’t a fraction as annoying as dealing with Guard/Guard so…
Anti stealth skill for some classes, like Ranger get single player see stealthed players for 30sec and Engineer get AOE skill so everyone around him se stealtehd players for 10sec that i would like.
Rangers should then also have a skill that break stealth, they shoot shoot 1 on a stealthed player and everyone see him.
Yea and Eles should get an ability that removes ranger pets for 30 seconds. Necros could get an ability that locks eles into one element for 30 seconds. Wars should be able to make mesmers not be able to clone and maybe Guardians should get an instant AoE that destroys all engineer equipment in a 1200 radius.
Learn COF path 1 and 2. It’s easy after a few runs. Gets you zeker (DPS) or carrion (condition) equiv armor/weapons very quickly and will make you a lot of money to buy your rings/accessories. Use +%Gold food during these runs.
And seriously, if you are a thief and all you do is solo kill loners you need to l2WvW.
I’m a Thief and all I do is camp the EB Jump puzzle and Peg Leg people off the top to their death. If it is a Stealth pooler caught by tripwire that’s even better. My buddy and I laugh REALLY hard doing it so it seems like a good way to spend our time in WvW. It’s probably good for our health as well.
I personally use a 0/30/20/20/0 setup (coming from a 30/10/5/0/20), I don’t miss the traits from Deadly arts at all. Sure it takes some time to get used to not doing dmg on steal, but I actually prefer it much better like this. Steal now functions as a gapcloser even while (already) stealthed. Mug would debuff you if you were stealthed before stealing. As a S/D & D/D user this gives me acces to a waterproof daze or a backstab (better used for the daze, since mug would compensate the “loss” of backstab but won’t compensate loss of daze)
I run s/d – d/d as well. Just can’t give up mug. You can actually activate back-stab/Daze in stealth say 300 units behind them then mug at the same time and both will hit just fine. They just have to be running away.
I’m seeing a lot of posts saying stupid things like “I only have 2 evades and HS can be spammed 7+ times, QQ and QQ!”
Seriously? This is a huge L2P issue.
Use an evade to dodge out of the initial burst, then pop a defensive or mobility ability to get away from the thief or mitigate his damage. You still have a dodge left and whatever endurance regenerated since then. Even if the thief has haste and assassin signet he will not be able to kill you quickly enough for you not to react. All it takes is a quick reaction. Similar to when a warrior uses bull charge, frenzy, hb on a thief. You need to break that stun immediately or you die. Is HB over powered? Not really.
Thieves have to use a combination of skills to stay on top of a target like shadowstep, steal, hs, dancing dagger, and sometimes some good dodges. There are many bad players out there who just spam HS and many bad players who just stand there and take it.
ANet will never balance this game around kittens IMO. When you have two good players vs. each other HS is never the “omg i just got wtfkittened” button you make it out to be.
This is a large problem with this game’s identity actually. Guild wars was traditionally a PvP franchise and I don’t think that was suppose to change. They always said they were shooting for e-sport. It has many twitch elements which IMO makes it great however it causes many traditional MMO style players to just never be able to compete in certain cases.
My older brother for instance. He loved WoW, he could even PvP a bit in it (no chance at Arena) but he can’t play FPS games and has very bad twitch. He cannot PvP in this game at all on the small scale. He just can’t get a handle on evade timing or stun breaking. So he just doesn’t WvW because of it. PvP in this game does not have a low enough skill-cap for a large majority of players. These are the bulk of your zerglings.
WvW is designed to entice PvE players into PvP zones. They are protected by anonymity and have PvE objectives everywhere. These players get killed and spout off ridiculous suggestions we have all seen over and over. In the end, no one wants to hear that their reaction times just aren’t up to par for a game they enjoy so it just becomes this huge insult to them. It may not be a L2P issue, It could simply be physical limitations. You can’t really learn reaction times.
random smoke aoes are nearly impossible to see and keeps are huge places.
Theres a big red circle to help point it out for you. If you can’t see it and your only argument is “the place is too big!”
Then it’s a L2P issue.
I love it when thief players defend their profession with most ridiculous comparisons and use the term “learn 2 play”.
Stealth is utterly broken, especially in WvWvW. Stealth = unfun for all those who are not using it. WvWvW would be better with the stealth and teleportation mechanisms completely removed or reworked.
GW2 has game mechanisms similar to FPS game. Now imagine a FPS game, where there are several professions. One profession, let’s call it infiltrator, can become invisible when he wants and no enemy action can reveal him from invisibility. Even if infiltrator walks into a cloud of smoke or enters water or enemy makes him bleed like hell, infiltrator is still invisible. And enemy with a rifle cannot even target him. While he is invisible the rifle bullets just don’t hit him even if you guess his exact location. He also does huge damage, his attacks are blindingly fast and he can teleport as well, move 50% faster while being invisible. Then we have another profession, let’s call it soldier, who has better armor, higher health, but his high damage attacks are slowly telegraphed and very easily dodged. Would this game be balanced? Hell NO.
Yea what if they were invisible and could one shot anyone, Team Fortress much? L2P issue. Anet even said new players have trouble with Thieves but it gets better at higher skill levels (fancy talk for l2p issue). If one isn’t capable of improving one will always think thieves are OP.
Also this little bit “While he is invisible the rifle bullets just don’t hit him even if you guess his exact location.” is just not true in GW2 so if you are hinting that’s how it works here, you don’t understand mechanics which might be a large part of your problem. Again, points to L2P.
Spamming heartseeker is useless in 1vs1. But its far from useless in larger WvW battles to finish enemies. Just pick a target at 50% health and spam heartseeker until he dies. Its easy and efficient.
So is a 1500 range kill shot. So what? Everything is OP when your target is outnumbered or distracted and at 50% health.
Anyone who complains about heartseeker is months behind the PvP curve in this game. I feel the pain for new players but I don’t think the game should be balanced around them. They should strive to get better.
I dont like clones exploding on me, can we nerf that too?
I hate getting BS and HB b warriors, lets nerf that too..
L2p!
You have no idea how unbalance it is do you? Think outside the box a bit…
Yea it’s so OP I can get any HS spam thief to blow their entire init pool using by using 1 evade and 1 utility. They start heart-seeker spam, evade once, shadow-step away, they come flying at you, shadow return, they come flying back and land somewhere near you with zero init. So OP man, so OP.
Other profs have other tools that can accomplish the same exact thing. L2P.
The issue isn’t about fighting HS spamming thieves. The issue is that HS is a spammable gap closer with lower intiative cost and a leap finisher while doing med-high damage.
Think about how HS is used in D/P build then come back and talk or how other classes would love to have so many leap finishers.
Yea just thought about it. It’s D/P’s access to stealth. So what? They can stack it up making build sacrifices. I still don’t see the problem.
It’s also not very often HS is all those thing you mention (Someone spam HS and on it’s third one it hits through a combo field on someone at <50% health). Yea it’s one or two when you use it but that’s the nature of a game that allows for flexibility in it’s abilities. Most abilities serve at least two purposes depending on the situation.
Initiative is part of the Thieves design and what makes the profession unique. They are meant to be able spam while at the same time dealing with resource management.
I only agree with Shadow Refuge being an addicting utility, the other two are not needed at all. Put 15 trait points into acrobatics, and you have reliable swiftness on dodge. The trait Thrill of the Crime will also give you 10 seconds of swiftness, and can be activated without having a target. Next to that you have weapon skills like Infiltrator’s Arrow or Shadow Shot, that can easily get you to a target. I’d pick Roll for Initiative over Shadowstep any day, when it comes to a stun breaker. 6 initiative vs. a shadowstep that you already have access to from other skills? Not really a competition..
2 stun breaks and a condition removal within 20 seconds.. usable with any weapon set. Also can get on top of stuff without short-bow requirement. Instant 1200 range movement to catch someone or get away. It’s got to be our best utility for PvP at least..
I dont like clones exploding on me, can we nerf that too?
I hate getting BS and HB b warriors, lets nerf that too..
L2p!
You have no idea how unbalance it is do you? Think outside the box a bit…
Yea it’s so OP I can get any HS spam thief to blow their entire init pool using by using 1 evade and 1 utility. They start heart-seeker spam, evade once, shadow-step away, they come flying at you, shadow return, they come flying back and land somewhere near you with zero init. So OP man, so OP.
Other profs have other tools that can accomplish the same exact thing. L2P.
I would love to get rid of SoS but it’s out best stomping ability. The run speed is gravy. Nothing else lets you blind a guardian or someone else on their way to save the person you are stomping.
SB has a huge edge for get away because it will port you while rooted/crippled.. and if you get stunned after it fires off it will still port you. Downside is they emeny can see the swirls of the shadowstep if you are doing it in stealth (if they know), with HS they can only hear your first couple.
Thief and D/D Ele are by far the best solo roamers. You need stealth or very high mobility in order to avoid the zergs and find smaller fights.
Mesmer though is right up there at endgame. If you use most the stelath skills as well as blink you can juke good. Also get used to binding the 180 button and then use Staff#2 for movement. Also you can go hang out at the EB Jump Puzzle and be a demigod.
S/D has very high surviabiltiy and cleaves.
D/D good for high brust and some condtion builds. Most sought after in PvE for farm groups in full zerk (leaves no room for error).
P/D trollspec good at killing hordes of bads in WvW very slowly. Very tanky if PvE, ok as long as you don’t have lots of other bleeders in grp.
D/P perma stealth or burst spec or balance of two. More WvW/PvP spec.
S/P – bad in my opinion, maybe just PvE but I’d still rather just go D/D for PvE.
P/P – probably fine in PvE, not that bad in PvP on swap if you run in a group. It’s very surprising ranged burst most people don’t expect but it’s lack of stelath makes it undesirable.
Shortbow – good all around for PvP and PvE. Probably the best swap weapon. For PvP I would have at least one weaponset be D/X or Shortbow for combat movement.
Rangers are no longer lul status and the funny thing is, there hasn’t even been that much changed, just some small fixes. Now every Ranger I run into has protection on dodge, why was no one running this for the past 6 months? It’s just like Ele’s being a joke until someone figured out D/D and now that’s all you see.
I ran into an Engineer last match up that was completely unkillable. He went into stealth more than a thief, he stacked the crap out of condition duration reduction so nothing could stick to him. So mobile an entire groups couldn’t touch him.
The tools have been there all along people just haven’t been using them much yet.
I shudder to think how strong d/d eles would be if they nerfed the damage gear in wvw.
yeah maybe you cannot kill em, they cannot kill you either..
not much of an issue..
builds that focus everything they have on survivability just make me laugh..
You play the most ungodly over powered class in MMO history. You have no right to laugh at anything…
I play a guardian and basically if i don’t go for a full bunker build thieves will take off 10K hp instantly stealth, regen, do it again and kill me. The problem isn’t the gear it’s the people working on class balance. They flat out suck at it. There are a few classes that do just way to much DPS and and have way to many ways to escape or defend themselves and a few that do next to no damage unless they give up all defense and go total glass cannon. The class balance in this game is horrifically bad and if you listen to the state of the game video and Jon Sharp and Jon Peters it’s no surprise.
You need to improve your gameplay. I dont get killed by Zerkerthiefs and also play a Guardian.
Also thief surely is not overpovered, its lame, and easy to predict. It is just that a thief adding to a fight or a kite can end it instantly. This is not overpowered. For themselves thiefs are dead meat to anybody who has his toon under control.
Oh god another one of these improve your game play posts. How can i improve my game play when a thieves first attack’s from stealth hit me 5 times in less then a second for 1500 each hit ? Come on, what am i going to do , swing my hammer at him and pray i get a lucky crit that will hit for 2K ? That will do so much good when a second later the thief unstealths again and does the same thing to my remaining 2K or so HP.
I’m so sick of thieves and people defending their over powered classes with that lame kitten argument. The class balance in this game is horrific and it’s as simple as that.
Use your shouts, blinds and dodges wisely. Also shield 5.
Yes because i just stand there and press 1 all day…
Most Guardian builds have no problems with Thieves. Don’t blame the profession.
So from this logic…since power seems to affect dmg more…would making sure that every item of gear has power as the main stat and throwing points into deadly arts over worrying about crit and prec be better? and to just build tanky with rest of stats? For example what this thread is initially about…PVT? Cause I don’t see thiefs having that many “on crit” traits…
I don’t think taking trait lines only for their stat is a good way to go. Traits are too powerful. Unless you are talking about just having the max damage possible for your profession. Deadly arts matches well for GC thieves anyway so it’s not an issue for them. It’s more for a more balanced build, I wouldn’t waist traits like that.
It’s all about your attack vs the target’s armor. It’s a sliding scale based on those values so each target is different. There are also things like vulnerabilities/might and other abilities like frenzy to think about. You can hit a GC warrior with Frenzy up for ridiculous damage. Imagine if you had some might stacks and they had vulns as well. Then they post the screenshot of the damage in a nerf thief thread with no context that they hit frenzy to try to 100burrds a thief in refuge who took advantage of the free +50% dmg.
I’m working on getting a Quiver of Swift flight for WvW purposes only. I’m curious if I can use the infusion slot with a 5 laurel +5 stat item or do I have to go through that 250 ecto process? Or is the 250 ectos only for Agony resist?
I started S/D + D/D as a PVT base as well but after a lot of playing with it I have slowly evolved it to full zerker/rubyorbs. The surivaiblity loss is almost not noticeable. You would be surprised how much of our defense is from traits and just plain avoidance with shadowsteps, stealth and dodges. With ~13,500 health (with 20 in acro and some wvw bonuses) you end up reacting based on % of health globe with your abilities so yea, you may need to shadowstep or return or evade and miss out on an extra auto attack in certain situations but it’s more than made up for with the better damage output of full zerk.
The biggest difference is you can’t eat a full burst form a GC thief or shatter mesmer or even one knockdown from a zerk or balanced d/d ele so you have to be on your toes for those fights. On the plus side you have plenty of dps to put them on defensive.
I love all the zerglings calling JPers nubs. The quality of PvPer in the EB JP is always 10x higher than that found outside of it. People go there because they know they can stand up in small groups or solo. Zerglings go there naked on all their alts to get badges since they can’t get kills and QQ all day.
So this is how this rogue keeps destroying our empty golems in SM.
Notice how his enemies KNEW within 3 ft where he was and still could not stop him. Totally fair. I think the solution will be to nerf aoe!
No one even attempted to get hit by his heartseeker. You need 3x of them over the field to maintain perma staelth. standing on one side or another of the field gives a 50/50 chance you will get hit (they land 3 times near the field on 2 of 4 sides you can get get hit from) and un-stealth them or force them to stop early and loose 4 seconds. If they land anywhere near the middle they will smack you too since heartseeker un-targeted will hit one of whatever is there is a small area. Also, every time they refuge it’s an opportunity to yank/KB them from it.
It’s perma stealth but not like you don’t know where they are. They have to blind field constantly. All you have to do is walk/blink/shadow-step/teleport into the blind field after about 1-2 second and they will smack you with a heart-seeker screwing it all up. Also taking the two perma stealth traits in Shadow Arts (2 init per stealth and faster regen in stelath) means you aren’t taking two of the best traits a thief has (blind on stealth and con remove in stealth). The actual viable d/p builds are more burst based and don’t have true perma stealth, though they can stay in for a while with utilities + fields.
the only auto-defense the mesmer has is mirror of anguish, and is easily countered by D/P thieves ( new thief fotm) with a single head shot at the start of the fight, in order to avoid to have your basilisk venom reflected to you.
I thought we were talking about the classic D/D + Shortbow.
An easier fix would be to stop auto defense abilities like that happening from daze. You can still evade so it’s usually wasted. Also, like the above poster said, this also takes away the “I had no idea he was there” argument.
edit: another fix is to not allow backstab to land if stealth is technically broken. Steal dealing damage first should negate a backstab. Make people finish the backstab before they hit steal. This would let the runes counter the combo as backstab would drop many GC to ~20%. Steal can still be instant but the BS should try to divide by zero or something if it tries to do damage without stealth.
I like to do BS then a heartseeker and a mug during the HS. Only kills pure glass or already hurt people and to catch people by surprise it requires a pre-cast SR and them not noticing.
Keep in mind that by waiting on the steal you’re missing out on some fury and might, assuming you’re at least 10 into trickery. Nice to have that fury before the BS lands.
I personally use sigil of intelligence to get around this. Guaranteed back-stab crit :P I don’t have 10 in trickery either but yea it is not as consistent for those builds for sure.
The only Thief combo that could be overpowered is the from stealth backstab^steal^autos with haste popped as well. It’s only good in sPvP because the Thief likely won’t have to fight anyone else.
This isn’t so much a Thief problem as it is a quickness problem. That buff has always been stupid.
The OP though dying to backstab+steal alone… that’s a build problem. Total glass and not taking even one auto defense trait. Even Svanir runes would save you if you really don’t want to get blown up like that. This probably also happened to him once when there have been countless thieves downed randomly by his shatters on some other target because they were too close.
Zera, are you using a proc sigil on your weapon set that does not have SOI on it? If you get into combat with that set, proc then swap within the 2 seconds that may be the cause of the fail. I have SOI and no on proc sigils with my main set (5% dmg and a stacking) and my SOI works 100% of the time.
The combo that guy is complaining about isn’t what I call the “classic combo” of C&D^Mug^BS it’s the SR first combo where you SR sneak up on someone and hit backstab+mug at the same time. I like to do BS then a heartseeker and a mug during the HS. Only kills pure glass or already hurt people and to catch people by surprise it requires a pre-cast SR and them not noticing.
I just went to research. Gears cost 56 (!!!) copper… they bounce and apply stun for 3 secs, on top of dmg. Brilliant idea. “We dont want ppl to play the UI, so instead now were giving you Play The Inventory!!”. So good. Im crying. Im gonna buy some. Lol.
Have fun until next patch. They fixed golem boxes so Gears are def going byebye. So far Skale and PegLegs have survived many patches so they may be safe. If they ever get rid of PegLegs I’ll be very sad as it’s a huge part of my gameplay now. From pegging rezers and dowend body’s for my buddy to shadowstep stomp to throwing people from the top of the JP.
Its not a thief skill. Its a gem skill. Its ridiculous. It shouldnt be there. You can purchase it in the gem store. On top of it, it also deals dmg. If a thief (of all classes) is using it, dont feel bad with urself, the joke is on him. I would never do this, ever. Foods and nourishments, i approve, its available for everyone and its mostly stats boost (minor ones), but this gem skills (the most popular is a skale venom thats lasts 10 minutes and applies weakness and vulnerability, its bugged as it applies regardless of crit or not, and its a 5% chance) are just cheese that the rich fat kids use to overcome there fatness.
Don’t need gems. PegLegs are like 28 karma from a vendor. Skale is a few copper from a vendor. Gears are a few copper as well. All vendor items in the world, not gems.
Open world PvP comes with zergs. This isn’t true open world but it’s close. Part of the fun is dealing with the zergs as a smaller group. Killing the sickly zebra at the back of the pack and getting away, making yourself visible around a corner and “pulling” a few random zerglings to your group, stuff like that.
Hopefully the WvW update will add incentives in the form of titles/rewards for smaller group play though.
Welcome to the primary stealth class in a MMO. It doesn’t matter one bit where the Thief resides on the power scale. The fact that they can be in stealth and can kill someone with access to a forum account is all that is needed.
I would love more of the sPvP stuff over in WvW like skill-spam, names showing etc. Sadly Anet seems against this, it seems they feel that anonymity shields people in such a way that those who would normally not touch PvP feel comfortable doing WvW.
They are probably right to a point but they should at least give us the option to show or own names or not. The best times I’ve had in this game are receiving party invites though the loophole with the other side after a few good fights and sharing some knowledge and build info. Yea there are some arshats out there that just talk smack but who cares? The mini e-friendships and rivalries gotten though this are well worth it.
