I feel like revenant will need to be hotfixed as soon as it is introduced. That is part of why thieves used to be so broken, some skills used too little initiative while giving the thief way too much reward. I get the feeling energy will be kind of the same.
Also who’s excited for being able to use a healing skill twice in a row!
Problem is….you won’t be able to use the healing skill twice, did you see that each skill/utility has a CD on top of energy consumption? The main heal showed so far has 30s CD, the utilities had like 50s+ CD and skill 4-5 something like 25s+, skill 3 on hammer was 15s CD and mace skill 3 was maybe 20s CD.
Revenant will play like a GW1 profession, a bad player will soon run out of energy and die easily, a good player will make appear as revenant is actually spamming skills all this thx to superb energy management
From what I have understood, each utility will drain 40/50% of your bar, more or less depending on the utility. After using two utilities in quick succession, you’ll be left with almost no energy , your enemy will be able to clear both confusion and torment and you will be left wide open to a massive counter-attack
You guys don’t understand how this works. When making decisions, ANET always asks the question: “Will this make engi even more OP?”
If the answer is yes, then they implement it.
If the answer is no, then it is not implemented.Balance 101
It’s more that you don’t understand how the balance process work n its entirety, if you’d have a less poisoned attitude, maybe you would have been able to fully catch what the devs said during the stream : " The current abilities that grant stability will be ofc reworked, some will give multiple stack of stability, others will be more readily accessible"..so don’t worry, devs are not stupid…
TL;DR OP:
“This build is really easy and I like it please don’t make me learn to play something that requires skill”
As a matter of fact I am an ele and used an engy in extremely rare occasions.
Open your mind to your chosen profession, learn to adapt, take your time to analyse the situation instead than rushing in blindly
If you play mele spec, you will lose against turret engy 8 times out of 10, you’re stopped on your tracks before you can reach the actual engy. The build is made to control an area through heavy CC and control, deal with it.
Be always prepared, watch map. To create mayhem on the battlefield is the engy speciality, Line of Sight is your friend, have always a safe escape route open, especially if you’re mele and play against turret engy teams.learn to be humble and accept the fact that you’re not some kind of God
Even better..change your build, go ranged, if you have not viable ranged options, change build to support your team in the best possible way( heavy condi clear, stability, snares etc etc ), learn to adapt
And if you can, change profession, go Power ranger for example as it can snipes engi to death pretty safely ( but watch if enemy got thieves), or go heavy condi as turret engy lack heavy condi clear.
Adapt to the ever changing environment..my 2 cents
They’re not the best. They just sync very well together. Alone, they very much suck against certain classes.
In fact, cele war + cele d/d ele will do terrible vs two condi spec classes or any other classes that counter them 1v1.
I can use builds with high poison upkeep (Orr Runes – Hint ) and pretty much take a dump on signet eles and shout warriors, high poison upkeep + confusion spamm and you’d kill a SoR ele pretty fast ( faster if ele player is unskilled) , poison + some dmg is enough for shout warriors.
On top of that both cele eles and shout warriors ( especially these ones, have poor to none access to stability, this leave them open to heavy CC on a point)
I am asking, pleading, begging you Devs to stand your ground once more.
Do not give in! Let us not reduce further the build diversity in this game; let us send a clear, definitive message to the Vocal minority, the message being : Learn To Play.
They need to learn how to adapt to the ever changing environment, they need to learn how to change: tactics, playstyle and even profession if necessary.
Less nerfing and more buffing pls, many builds make the game fun as people can try and play different things, few builds make the game boring and stagnant.
Let us all remember that : creativity, adaptability, humbleness are what divide the good from the bad.
Cheers
dd ele has literally the most condi clenase in the game and a ton of melee aoe dmg, aka it hard counters burn guard. so l2p.
Technically speaking a condi survival ranger has far more condi removal than your dd ele and more condi application than any ele build.
- Emphatic bond+signet of renewal = 4 condi cleansed every 10s
-Survival of the fittest + 3 survival skills= 6 condi cleansed every 20-40s
A guardian considering consecration skills and other traits still possess more condi removal than any ele build, an average med guardian still has a reasonable access to condi removal respect to an ele fully speccing in defense and taking max condi removal( 3 condi removed every 10s if using a dodge + 4 condi cleansed every 40s and other 2 removed every 75-80s)
That max condi removal wasn’t even close to be enough when dhuumfire was around, where hiding burning behind a wall of condi was unstoppable, so yeah by far ele does not possess the biggest condi removal in the game, just one of the most accessible
Its definetly true weee need the celestial amulet, no question about it. But i mean, why make a case about playing with it or not? Celestial SHOULD be an option on pvp cause they wouldnt let us customize our stats as we desire on pvp like we can on WvW or PvE. Also why make a case on playing with different amulets? A build is a build as a whole, traits, weapons and gear. Elementalist by desing needs variety on the stats for a build like D/D, so is still “fair game” that we have access to those stats trough the amulet system.
But i think you are right with the whole Cele ammulet thing: Maybe shave off some of the stats on cele would be a better balance than nerfing D/D? Cause Cele Engie and Warrior are meta as well because of this amulet.
I mean, im no expert but it seems that any class that can pull balanced condi/power damage, bonus procs like gaining buffs of putting de debuffs on crits, and constant small heals trough regeneration and HPS traits or mechanics, would benefit more from the Cele amulet thant any other amulet, effectively making them a “metabuild” on the current state of the game. So the balancing issue is, at the end of the day, the Cele amulet and not the professions?
I definetly dont wanna se D/D ele nerfed to the ground, has been my main pvp spec for a lot of time and i still enjoy playing it, but it seems that the “Jack of all trades, master of none” desing has gone a little bit outta hand now that beeing the “master” of a particular trade doesnt seem to have much of an impact against balanced builds.
The balanced builds you mention…..simply blow other ele builds out of existence quite easily if the ele player does no play perfectly and completely outwit the opponent, who on the other hand will need 1/3 of the effort to kill you.
Again with these kind of threads, a poorly veiled nerf engy/ele thread and buff the profession played by the OP because it’s Z tier ( like should be deleted), in this case the Z tier profession is obviously a Mesmer and God tier are ele and engy, try to say otherwise and you get flamed.
Wait, what!!! I play zerker d/d (and soon to be d/f) and it’s not even that hard against war/guard/thief/ranger. The encounter that I have most trouble with is against good sword/x/gsword mesmer. Their burst is annoyingly strong even with 100% protection up time. Next would be Power Lich Necro because getting any hit would mean gg for zerker ele. Engi is a fair game though.
D/D ele is still a well-rounded play style for either bunker spec or fast assaulting spec. One of the best d/d zerk ele I know is a streamer called Lite. Watching him rekt everything is pure bliss #fangirl.
The environment I see you playing is full of duellists and solo players, yes it’s great I rekt easily also at those level with zerker D/D, I felt like a god.
When you start to go up, you’ll see the difference, there are no duellists or soloplayers, it’s a constant 2vs1, constant prioritized as target, you lose your purpose in the team and you become a liability. Once realized you’re zerker..any smart thief/guardian will stop confronting you at close range from start, you start being targeted by high dmg range class like power ranger or Mesmer and then insta killed by D/P thieves that are shadowing you waiting for the moment to strike you down.
Against competent players who know what conquest is…you stand no chance as zerker D/D. As pure 1vs1 ofc everything changes and zerker D/D 1vs1 looks great but again I’ve never mentioned 1vs1 in my post above
And bunker on D/D? You don’t bunker against good engies, hambows, or any other debunkering spec played well…unless ofc you play Celestial D/D and that was what I was saying, try to bunker a point with anything else and you see for yourself what I mean
OP, you should try to play D/D with celestial amulet.
The class is still hard, very punishing and now it would be much harder( impossible in some come cases) if not for celestial. Try to play a soldier D/D or a valk or even a zerker D/D, the main reason the devs did not nerf the celestial amulet is because they knew that without it…ele would become an accessory class in PvP; far less required. A well played med guardian would ruin your day 24/7 if not for celestial, a hambow would prove to be 3x harder to beat, a well played thief would become a constant life threatening problem.
-With a soldier amulet you may have close to celestial direct dmg, but your condi dmg is lacking, means you won’t beat a good thief or Mesmer, any time soon, and good med guardian would end up out-sustain you and kill you
-With a valk amulet, you get ripped apart from the current condi spamm or even rapid fire rangers…forget the toughness, the low HP means you insta die ..almost insta die
-With a zerker amulet, you may prove to be a challenge 1vs1 for a thief, any build…but a med guardian ( even average one) or Mesmer( again even average one) will rock your world any day of the week.
So is D/D ele really OP?…nah man, it’s only a single amulet, that makes ele truly competitive, OP many may say. Take that amulet away and…..you open the can of worms that’s is ele, the devs know this so…no nerfs to cele amulet ofc, they’d rather nerf the D/D spec ..sad
(edited by Supreme.3164)
it’s truly frustrating, infuriating at time to see this gem of a game reduced to such state. Here we are, two years after release and each profession got at most a couple of builds commonly used in PvP, in some case.. a single build (ele/Mesmer).
In the beginning you Devs promised us that having fewer skills would have facilitated the balancing of the game, faster updates and greater build variety compared to GW1.
I see nothing of what you promised with all due respect.
The minimum number of builds you could have for each profession was 4, and the number of skills you were able to use out of thousand….was even smaller than the current total number of skills available in GW2.
Take ele for example, I could choose between 5 viable elites( searing flames, shockwave, mind blast, blinding flash, invoke ) out of 12 elites…in GW2 I have at most 1 and half elite out of 3, how is it possible?.
At this point I know that the generalization is too much, GW1 and Gw2 are two different games I know, still the simplification we see in GW2 should have made the game better according to you….
To create more build options for each class should be a top priority for the devs, my 2 cents.
Stop defending this build as bad. It´s annoying as kitten. And if you play vs. 3 Engis, two of them Turrets…well kitten. Decent players with little more brain then a monkey can make this build work well in mid-tier or top-tier.
But all i read is l2p…kitten it. If you have two Turrets bunker side-nodes and cant 1v1 with your team-comp you are kittened….sign. The 3 enemy-players can roam between them and they are fine. But we all just l2p….yeah sure. I dont get it. xD
There is no need to defend this build, it’s very easy to counter. A build with no stunbreakers, huge condi removal or huge self sustain; just outrotate them, snipe them, aoe them and clear the point.
It takes far less effort to kill a turret engy than a shoutbow warrior as played by the OP, a build which I think does not require world level personal skill to work.
Before turret engy, the OP was complaining about cele ele and before that he was complaining about something else.
A team with turret engies , can be compared to an IWAY team in GW1..at that time people on the GW1 forum would have laughed at you for complaining about IWAY, well guess different times…..different forum…different community
(edited by Supreme.3164)
It’s a no brain/skill build, it’s easily the most easiest played, does sick dmg, bunkers sick, and could easily be played in top tier. I think the main reason it’s not used in top tier pvp, in which i play, is cause it’s a low morale build.
You’re playing in top tier pvp and you get rekt by random newbie turret engineer?
Top tier pvpers sure are overrated.
amen
To someone who said elementalists can not live without triple cantrips, I say it’s also equally rare to see mesmers without blink and decoy, warriors without shouts or stance, thieves without shadowstep and signets, or engi without grenades and toolkit, ranger without lightning reflex and all that jazz.
Yep. It’s not only the Elementalist that “has to” use specific skills to be viable in PVP.
How many Warriors out there not using Berserker Stance? How many Mesmers not using Decoy/Blink? How many Engies without Toolkit? etc etc
Saying that only Eles “need” to use Cantrips while all other professions can use all their skills is completely false.
I was using a Staff dps build, in a good organized team it’s pretty good way of doing massive damage, sure you die a lot if you are isolated, but the key to the build is to stay with your team and support them with hard hitting AOE skills.
Shoutbow warriors don’t use stances, turret engi don’t use toolkit, phantasm Mesmer don’t have both dercoy and blink…now how many viable ele build without canrips?…none
If I understand it correctly a lot of the issue with the elementalist balancing is the line between garbage and godhood is very thin and so the changes tend to hokey-pokey elementalist in elementalist out.
That’s precisely it!
The whole scenario is this : Jon Peters say that ele is inherently weak by design at base level, to compensate for this, they gave ele a set of powerful traits/utilities.
The ele community( including ele TOP players like @Phantaram) have suggested to remove both this baseline weakness and this set of OP traits/utilities, unfortunately the answer from the devs has been a stern NO.
So here we are, two years from launch with a profession always one nerf away from oblivion( just nerf SoR or cleansing water to kill the profession)
He was using earth trait line grandmaster trait : diamond skin
Ele is immune to condis while being above 90% health; basically you can have a godly anti condi 1vs1 build in a 1vs1 scenario. The trick is to do enough direct dmg to lower the ele below 90%, easier said than done in wvw and alone as necro. Ping your build for suggestions on how to beat that spec.
I won’t lie and say this thread wasn’t made because of the complaints. As I have said before, I’m not arguing against the idea of reducing sustain on ele, instead I’m contesting the way this should happen.
I want a revaluation of the class not simple nerfs, these only change something from viable to unviable and in ele case would be from playable to unplayable, as it has already been seen prior to the april 2014 patch.
Being able to recover from burst and sustained dmg is part of the ele design as you can see, that makes a tough customer in any 1vs1 scenario and great part of team fights; to change that means changing the profession concept, no matter how right or wrong it is.
You know already that Anet gives no compensation for heavy nerfs; the ele healing being considered extreme by people ..it’s not a new info and in the past, the devs thought it’d be ok to nerf ele sustain, which are just the signet and water master trait, these two alone keep the profession afloat, and when these two got nerfed….well ele disappeared from PvP for almost one year.
The ele situation is so dire that the devs were forced to revert the nerfs…to rework the profession is too much.
That’s exactly what needs to happen. I don’t play ele enough to give “proper” suggestions, and they don’t just need nerfs. But the problem is that boons cause sort of an exponential effect with buffs AND nerfs, so they swing really easily from UP and OP. They need less boon duration (maybe access, but not necessarily) and more incentive to go into other trees for damage, since they’re a little too good at everything at once. They would clearly need compensation. A possible good compensation is reducing some of the cooldowns on some of their abilities in the process, since its often discussed, and again, more reason to go into other routes for damage in PvP. Don’t have all the answers, just stating an underlining issue. Of course they’d need buffs to offset the nerfs or they’d go back to being useless.
Your concerns are valid and justified but cannot be considered, not out of spite ofc but because the elementalist rather than buffs would need a considerable re-work at core design levels. For starters the base stats should be changed, then most weapon skills should be reworked, finally the traitlines should be re-designed also.
Anet devs know this perfectly, they tried to force eles in more offensive trait lines( with quite few heavy nerfs in 2013) but that only revealed the huge core problems of the profession ( lack of sustain outside defensive lines, extremely low base stats etc etc etc ).
As you’ve correctly pointed out, the elementalist can only be buffed/nerfed from an UP state to an OP state and viceversa given the complete mess which is the core design. At this point it’s not only you who can’t come with a reasonable suggestion, the devs themselves don’t know how to balance ele without a huge rework
Every thing seems to be working as intended, every profession cover 90% of the core concept designed by anet devs themselves. In the end people should really play what suits them…..rather than play something out of simple expectations
•Necromancer: Kings of sustained fights. High attrition damage – stronger as the fight goes on.
?Weakness – mobility since it is hard to get out of fights, low damage mitigation once you get past the Death Shroud. Low dodge potential. Not a lot of access to swiftness and boons. You are trading it for ability to sap strength and boons from your enemies to make them to want to escape the fight.
?Official design: Strength – sustainability, DPS in physical and conditions (maybe add a bit more in physical). Opponent control through conditions and fear. Weakness – mobility, lack of vigor for dodge, hard to disengage from fights. Lack of sustained AoE damage.
•Ranger: High single target DPS. Long range single target damage – should be the best (mesmer comes second). Sustainability through melee evasion and dodging. Sustained melee AoE.
?Weakeness: Dealing with boons on enemies – no boon rip. Lack in stun breakers with some builds but it is intentional since you can evade so much. Reliance on pet for maximum efficiency as pet is factored into your damage output. Your damage will be smaller than other classes due to the pet. Pet have issues against high end PvE encounters since they are more of a hindrance than help. AoE at long ranged but it is a trade off with having highest single target DPS at long range. Mobility – can’t escape fights as good as some other classes.
?Official design: Pretty close to the player feedbacks.
•Thief: We don’t factor in stealth in the same way we factor in initiative. It is a very specific toolset. Active defense – use evasion, stealth to avoid damage. High burst potential and high mobility. Can into and out of a fight with ease. Able to steal boons.
?Weakness: Low passive defense (health and armor), limited condition removal, low prolonged sustainability in a fight due to their high burst potential. High skill ceiling – high damage but low survability (i.e. glass cannon). To get survability you need to trade off some damage – opportunity costs.
•Warrior: Sturdy body, able to apply physical and conditional damage. Sustained AoE damage from melee. Melee crowd control. Hardy personal sustain.
?Weakness: Low amount of evades – you are a warrior, you are there to block it. Low protection – you already have high sustained. Too much gap closers, need more options to escape combat. Not a lot of response to enemy boons. Reliance on adrenaline usage. Overrun by conditions if their defenses fall off
Where should each profession be? (based on player feedback)
•Elementalist: Flexibility, jack of all trades, large skillsets. High AoE potential. High skill floor – hard for new players to jump in and high skill ceiling.
?Weakness: Recovering from burst damage, but water attunement can help sustain the damage. Versatility is strength but also weakness – higher cooldowns on weapon skills. Inability to deal with booned enemies.
?Official design: Versatility through weapon skills – we want to maintain that. Defense against sustained DPS is good and they are very supportive in most roles they assume. Low base HP is an intentional design so we can give them more support. Poor defense against spike damage is also intended so they have to wary about spike damage. Escapeability: too much in the past and helped them against spike damage. Inability against booned enemies is a specific hole in the role since they can AoE from ranged.
•Engineer: Flexibility, jack of all trades. Lots of kits, turrets and skills. High skill floor. Good crowd control.
?Weakness: Flexibility – not strong at anything. Some skills are very strong so you are pigeoned into specific builds. Not a lot of conditional removal.
?Official design: Condition overload – it is by design they don’t have a lot of condition removals but we don’t want conditions to be a hard counter for engineers. You can counter the conditions with your hard and soft CCs (i.e. stuns, cripples). The issue is when you fighting multiple opponents that you can’t really counter all the conditions. Limited spike potential – we want to make sure engineers don’t do too much spike damage as there was a time in the past where this was an issue. Versatility through utility skills. Difficulty from disengage from a fight – harder than thief/mesmer.
•Guardian: Very good at providing boons and sustained – general group support and very tanky even with a low health pool. Generally act as a frontline support – first in and last out. Different from warriors who have a more of a selfish sustain.
?Weakness: Reliance on boons for damage reduction and survability make them vulnerable to boon striping classes. A lot of the damage reduction is cooldown based so the longer the fight goes on the more they are vulnerable. Low mobility – you can close in on a fight quickly but you can’t get out quickly. Low ranged damage – much less utility at ranged but lots of AoEs. Elementalist can do support at ranged while guardians are more support at the frontlines.
?Official design: Pretty close to the player feedbacks.
•Mesmer: Misdirection, crowd control, utility. Brought in for utility all the way from GW1.
?Weakness: Conditions are hard to deal with. Lack of AoE – good single target damage but weak at AoE situation. (A bit weaker than where we want to be. We don’t want to make it too strong as we want you to bring Eles for ranged AoE damage). Mobility – not a ton of mobility due to lack of swiftness but they do have a lot of teleports such as portals. Mesmer can get there and back with portals but can’t go too far forward due to lack of swiftness. Low defense against high burst damage – maybe some small tweaks.
?Official design: Access to key utility skills. Gain defense through stealth, evasion, misdirection. Strong 1v1 ranged damage dealer but weaker in sustained AoE damage. Weakness – conditional removal, sustainability if illusions are countered, AoE damage make it hard to sustain illusions.
GW2 June 13 Ready Up Developer Livestream notes. The focus of this livestream is on the philosophy of class balance in GW2.
Developers
•Josh Davis – Host
•Jonathan Sharp – Game Design Lead
•Karl McLain – Game DesignerHow is balance is approached?
It is more complicated than just how much healing and how much damage. It is hard to balance PvE with WvW and with sPvP. There are other factors such as health, mobility, damage etc.
Are balance changes proactive or reactive?
Going towards a goal or in response to the meta?
•It is both. We have certain ways we like to push certain professions proactively.
•There are some reactive balance changes we do based on how things develop (i.e. certain meta types).
•Sarcraft in the early days – Terran wasn’t as good but once community learned how to play Terrans (i.e. the Koreans) they were really powerful. Elementalist is the same. At first people didn’t know how to play the class but once they know how to elementalist started to dominate and we had to tone it down.Purity of purpose/Holes and Roles/Opportunity Cost
•Purity of purpose: You don’t want something that does too many things at once. If everything does everything to equal levels, you don’t have this purity of purpose. You want things streamlined so players know how to use it and not too many tools within one toolbox.
•Holes and Roles: You don’t want a single class to do things better than everybody else or else they end up as Apex predators. You want to put holes in the roles so they don’t do everything good at once.
•Opportunity cost: If an utility skill have too much utility, it overshadow other utility skills and no one would use the other utility skills. There need to be an opportunity cost for using for skill over the other.Hard Counters
•Berserker stance (reduce duration of conditions) etc, deliberately put there to put moments of reaction for other players. Your playstyle will need to change for a period of time when this hard counter goes up. If you have a skill that stop all projectiles you don’t want to last too long.
•Soft counters – you still take damage from certain things but the damage are less.
•Hard counters is not something we are aiming for, but soft counters are.Relation between a profession’s base health/armor weight and their DPS potential?
•Thief have a large utility set and extreme mobility. Hit and run is more of their playstyle. That is one of the reasons why their health pool reflects that.
•Thief is good at jumping in quickly, unload a lot of damage and then back out. They have low health and only wears medium armor.
•Necros have more HP but they don’t have a lot of spike potential and reflects more of a sustained potential.Guardians are the same, low HP but a lot of sustain potential.
•Same with warriors – sustained potential until they can hit you with a burst.Changes with various game modes
•Existing skill change – look at the various game modes and which works for what (i..e pve, wvw, spvp). Does the change work for all 3 game modes? Will players in all 3 game modes will like it?
•If there is a change that is needed specifically for one game mode, we can change the skill just for one game mode (i..e Pistol Whip nerf).
•If we do a split of a skill between the various game modes, we don’t want to change things so drastically that you don’t recognize your class between the various game modes.
Incendiary Powder wasn’t touched. That’s why you still see cele rifle engi around so much. Shaving even 1 second off the base would be a step toward better balance.
Turret engi could be easily fixed by making Accelerant-Packed Turrets a master level trait again.
I actually see a big difference with d/d ele’s power. Though still a little too good, it’s not nearly as overwhelming of a difference.
PERSONALLY, I still feel that Ele’s boons in arcana are a bit over the top. Boons tend to be the reason why ele stand out so much, boons are potent and they have a lot of them. (Duration might be the bigger concern, not really sure). Its a big part of why they have a bit too much sustain. They also tend to do a bit too much damage for being Arcana+Water and some earth, but again that’s probably a bit of a boon issue.
•Elementalist: Flexibility, jack of all trades, large skillsets. High AoE potential. High skill floor – hard for new players to jump in and high skill ceiling.
?Weakness: Recovering from burst damage, but water attunement can help sustain the damage. Versatility is strength but also weakness – higher cooldowns on weapon skills. Inability to deal with booned enemies.
?Official design: Versatility through weapon skills – we want to maintain that. Defense against sustained DPS is good and they are very supportive in most roles they assume. Low base HP is an intentional design so we can give them more support. Poor defense against spike damage is also intended so they have to wary about spike damage. Escapeability: too much in the past and helped them against spike damage. Inability against booned enemies is a specific hole in the role since they can AoE from ranged.
Lowest base stats among all classes is the price ele pay for the powerful boon as you say, working as intended according to anet, unless you have a better suggestion as trade off for being the squishiest class by design
Well we still see a lot of zerker thieves around too. Where is the nerf to fire+air?
I don’t remember people complaining about class stacking when every single team had a guard-thief-mesmer in the comp. Now that we see more eles-engi-war than before people start to QQ.
That’s because the OP is a thief like all the ones that make ele/engy nerf threads. He fails to understand the role of a thief, which is not to 1vs1 tanky specs( made to hold points under heavy fire), I’d suggest him to play an ele seen as he likes to play duellist hero so much …but got screenshots of him playing as ele..he failed terribly, ended up with 0 pts so…
With the PAX east demo only 2 weeks away, I believe it’s time for the devs to spill the beans on specializations, c’mon guys, it’s time to end the speculation ^^
This is the build I use for PvP on staff if you like the style, a celestial staff variant, very viable in my opinion.
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fFAQFAWhcMacW4wyBd0AGAC5oDbGMRgir3C-TJRGwAAeAAJuAAt2fYZZAA
Thanks for sharing the build – so basically a cantrip cele build. Looks good on paper. I’m wondering how much damage it puts out though. You have might from the cantrips, but how much do you typically maintain in fights? I also like the sustain from the high healing power/regen, though I wonder how much better the build could be by taking 2 from water and taking EA. You then rely primarily on cleansing fire and water attunement for condition management. I presume you’ve probably tried this; what is the reasoning?
A single lava font will trigger sigil of strength at least 3 times, meaning that on average you will have 9 stacks of might without attunement swap or using any cantrip, compared to d/d you have less access to vigor, this means less dodges and less EA triggering on demand. On top of this in my opinion if you have staff , a trait like cleansing water is mandatory; the current meta is 70% condi dmg, you can never have enough condi clear these days ^^; cleansing water is too good of a trait for me to pass.
I want to apologise to the GW2 community, in advance, after watching the recent ready up and after some consideration, I have decided that in the future whenever I will be forced to play Conquest, I will automatically leave the game, no exceptions.
I want to play Stronghold and no conquest, that’s it. ….Again I’m sorry, but I really hate Conquest, reason why I’m not playing atm.
I think the more important point is that the conquest, node-capping and holding game mode in this game is boring in itself. If you wanna win rush 2 points fast and then hold them. Rotate if needed rinse and repeat.
It favors bunkerish builds that can do bit damage, have support and some cc and decent mobilty.
Except that completely pushed out any form of bunker guard, mesmers are almost never scene except for 2 or three max. And every group is just “cele+hoelbrak/pack runes insert class here.” The only necro you ever really see is Noscoc and a couple of teams trying “surprise” power necro people.
Face it engi and ele cele build needs nerfed. I say just do the amulet.
Why not remove that stat from game altogether and remove might as well?
Cause the next thing if cele amulet is nerfed or removed is ppl still complaining how some classes benefit from might better and from might runes and sigils. Remove them as well.
You are missing the point. Anet either needs to tone down something on the celestial builds. Or buff the builds that the celestial builds have essentially removed from the meta.
So the game is unbalanced when your profession main is not played often? That’s what I get from your posts
It’s not just “my profession” it’s several, just rewatching some of the WTS, some teams even had 3 eles. When one class represents more than 50% of your team comp that isn’t a problem?
Builds you hardly ever see used are things like full burst builds (which used to be the meta with the exception of one or two bunkers per team.)
You also don’t see any teams with an actual dedicated bunker.
And the problem is arising when people who don’t play this game but are interested see things like this and think wow so i have no chance unless I play one of three builds in this game.
You can’t tell me this is okay.
And before double eles , there was double warrior and something else before that.
Yes ofc it’s not ok when you see double of anything ..and what can be possibly done?
Eles are not like the warrior that can rely on robust trait lines, more than one reliable weapon set and more than one line of utilities.
In ele case, you have the cantrips and the 30 water/arcana build which have been the only thing that has made the profession, not viable…*usable*in PvP, I dare to say since launch.
If you want to stop seeing double eles, then nerf their sustain..but then you won’t see any eles at all in PvP as it was for almost one year between june2013 and april 2014.
The design concept of the profession is bad, it should be changed, if that doesn’t happen then you can only remove the profession altogether
I think the more important point is that the conquest, node-capping and holding game mode in this game is boring in itself. If you wanna win rush 2 points fast and then hold them. Rotate if needed rinse and repeat.
It favors bunkerish builds that can do bit damage, have support and some cc and decent mobilty.
Except that completely pushed out any form of bunker guard, mesmers are almost never scene except for 2 or three max. And every group is just “cele+hoelbrak/pack runes insert class here.” The only necro you ever really see is Noscoc and a couple of teams trying “surprise” power necro people.
Face it engi and ele cele build needs nerfed. I say just do the amulet.
Why not remove that stat from game altogether and remove might as well?
Cause the next thing if cele amulet is nerfed or removed is ppl still complaining how some classes benefit from might better and from might runes and sigils. Remove them as well.
You are missing the point. Anet either needs to tone down something on the celestial builds. Or buff the builds that the celestial builds have essentially removed from the meta.
So the game is unbalanced when your profession main is not played often? That’s what I get from your posts
I think the more important point is that the conquest, node-capping and holding game mode in this game is boring in itself. If you wanna win rush 2 points fast and then hold them. Rotate if needed rinse and repeat.
It favors bunkerish builds that can do bit damage, have support and some cc and decent mobilty.
Except that completely pushed out any form of bunker guard, mesmers are almost never scene except for 2 or three max. And every group is just “cele+hoelbrak/pack runes insert class here.” The only necro you ever really see is Noscoc and a couple of teams trying “surprise” power necro people.
Face it engi and ele cele build needs nerfed. I say just do the amulet.
A lot must be changed on engy and ele, the latter especially, before anything get..nerfed. The design concept of the ele is extremely bad, over two years the same build has been used. I doubt Anet will ever listen to ele community or even TOP players like @Phantaram( who agree eles need a re-design), they will just keep the d/d build in, to keep the profession in game
This is the build I use for PvP on staff if you like the style, a celestial staff variant, very viable in my opinion.
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fFAQFAWhcMacW4wyBd0AGAC5oDbGMRgir3C-TJRGwAAeAAJuAAt2fYZZAA
To the OP
Ofc I speak from a PvP point of view, I feel that in PvE everything goes and it can’t be used as an indication of balance.
In PvP the only utilities you’ll ever see on ele is cantrips for survival, you’ll rarely( extremely rarely and at low level of play) see signets or glyphs as utiltiies; this is not true for all other profession where they can more freely use almost all their utilities and still be able to create very viable builds.
Long story short, in PvP ele is :" go tank or die in 1s" and in PvE….well you can go naked like everybody else
SO i haven’t played Guild Wars 2 in over a year, but i used to roll Elementalist, despite it being the weakest class in PvP and being Mediocre in PvE.
Has anything changed for Elementalist this past year?
Seems like Thieves got nerfed pretty hard as i googled up some QQ threads, otherwise i think most classes became better?
Not sure, how is elementalist now in PvP and PvE?
Ele has never been an optimal class, those who say so…have no idea what balance potential means.
The class is exactly as weak as perceived in the beginning, nothing has changed and with that I mean the main design concept has not changed, if you play PvP , you are forced in a very tanky spec…..to play the profession at all.
You get basically destroyed by anything played even worst than your current level of skill if you don’t use that tanky spec.
In PvP the profession possess the lower level of build diversity among all classes, 2 years after release and the only build that make eles feel welcome in a team….it’s the well known 30 water/arcana.
Many will disagree with me ofc, many will call me a noob…but OP, ask yourself this : can a profession that rely on an amulet and a build that stack everything in survivability to be viable in PvP, be really considered in a good state?
I consider a bunker build any build designed to hold a position for a specific amount of time, and they all share a common factor: they are very annoying to fight and suck the fun out of the game. A bunker healer guardian, a shout warrior, a turret engy, MM necro..all these are bunker spec in my eyes; the new game mode will not promote them for sure, yet it won’t make them unviable, if anything they’ll become a choice rather than a necessity.
https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/stronghold-the-battle-of-champions-dusk/
At this point, many will still disagree with me…I strongly believe that this game mode will bring forth a golden age for GW2 PvP. My opinion is based on these three points:
- You don’t need to hold or capture points( making bunker builds less omnipotent)
- Huge variety of role to fill and different play styles available( this will create a different meta from Conquest)
- Very PUG friendly, less optimization required, therefore everything is more accessible for the average solo casual player( like me)
If you don’t agree then please do contest my points and let me know what you think, I may be missing something, Cheers!
Too basic, too simplistic. I fear that it will very quickly become stale once players find out one or two tactics. Played too many RTSes to not see this coming.
You can find the same faults in the conquest game mode, one/two tactics win the day every time. Snowballing and heavy bunkering , remember?
I have good reasons to believe that legendary backpacks may come with the expansion and the xunlai electric ingot+ spirit ingot ( can’t remember exact name but it can be found in the ascended tab like the xunlai ingot) will be obtainable only with 500 jeweller. A 500 chef would be required to craft some recipes necessary to these legendary backpacks
Don’t take my word for it, but I have good reasons to believe that ele specialization( don’t know name) will be able to wield dual pistol.
A straightforward question for the devs, I hope to get some actually clue but I’m also open to some speculation ^^, we still don’t know when the xunlai electric ingot will become available.
Some criticism is necessary both for an individual and organization, without it we would potentially never see any improvement. Unfortunately what I see on these forums is nothing like criticism, what I see is a collection of unconstructive posts jotted down in anger and frustration, it’d be better if people would communicate their idea in a coherent and civil manner, never forgetting that their opinion is not the absolute truth and as such it will be contested by other people as it should.
The forums used to be fun to read, now it’s all doom and gloom….a shame really, many features we see today were suggested by posts during the years, now I don’t see how the devs will ever be able to find good meeting discussion material with all this negativity.
My apologies for any grammar mistake, eng not really my 1st lang.
snip.
It’s hard to take you seriously when fundamentally speaking, the stagnant state of GW2 PvP scene is due to the constant nerfs that people like you have always requested on a regular basis. You have always been the first to point a gun at the devs whenever they tried to buff something out of their miserable state," powercreep, powercreep, nerf this and nerf that" and now you’re here ..saying that GW2 lack build diversity?…Well I’ll be kitten ed if this not your fault in part
My personal list of skills/utilities that should change drastically, they should create new play styles without destroying the current ones.
Skills
-Dragon’s tooth: make it instant like comet, halve the dmg and burning duration, but make it “instant” like comet and also drop the casting time
-Shatterstone: change to 6s cd, now applies 3s cripple, reduced time for the ice to shatter
-Dust devil: remove the blind and add single target knockback, 25s CD
-Flamestrike: burning reduced to 1s, base dmg increased(100 to 300, coefficient increased from 0.3 to 0.375), reduced casting time( from 1 1/4s to 1s )
-Ice shards: base dmg decreased from 180 to 100, now applies 1s vulnerability for 4s
-Stoneshards: base dmg increased to 240 from 150, coefficient increased from 0.40 to 0.60
-Freezing gust: now applies 4s chill and 8s weakness, if enemy suffering from another condition , it deals 2x dmg, 35s CD, base dmg increased from 80 to 400, coefficient increased from 0.20 to 1.0
-Firewall : base dmg increased from 30 to 400, coefficient increased from 0.1 to 0.9
-Gust: now it is a PBAoE knockback
-Shockwave: AoE immobilize, 1200 range, 3/4 activation time, 240 radious
Utilities
-Ether renewal: 1.5s activation time, 4 pulse -4 conditions removed
-Glyph of elemental harmony: casting time reduced by 1/4s
-Glyph of elemental power: remove the “every 5s application” increase trigger chance to 50%
-Glyph of storm: base dmg increased from 123 to 600 , add coefficient of 0.9
-Signet of fire : remove the burning , add 3 stacks of torment for 8s
-Signet of water : now applies 4s chill+6s cripple
-Conjures: CD decreased from 60s to 20s, auto-attacks don’t consume charges, can be dropped without breaking them so they can be re-taken from the floor
-Tornado : now reflect projectiles
-Conjure elite: firestorm – dmg increased from 240 to 800 with 0.8 coefficient; eruption ( now can move while casting it, 280 radius ); fiery whirl ( base dmg increased from 220 to 600, coefficient increased from 0.4 to 0.7)
What are your thought?
Get rid of the current systems that are brainless/lack counterplay and get to a place where you deliberately use skills to achieve a desired result
This^ +100
working servers
Just tell me how much you need to fix your servers, how much do I need to pay?
The game has been literally unplayable for months now…I have enough, the problem is not on my end but it’s on yours and he’s not just me, you have hundreds of EU players suffering the same problem, it has not been one or two weeks, this has been going for the last 5-6 months and I still see no solution.
Go ranger.
Lots of tanky meta players, ranger is best at bursting them down.
Also, good mobility too, so decapping is easy.
Also, good for team fights.
1v1 is good too.
http://metabattle.com/wiki/Build:Ranger_-_Read_the_Wind_Power_RangerTell me how Ranger is good in ‘bursting’ tanky meta, when Ranger job is to hunt down squishies.
Tell me how Ranger mobility is good compared to Thief or Mesmer.
Tell me how Ranger is sooo good in 1v1 against competent people?
Rangers have one of the best condi build in the game, that one works quite well against tanks which are resistant to burst dmg
Outside of duelling rooms, the 1vs1 you speak of….rarely happen, a ranger can be an excellent point holder, he can hold long enough for help to come, not everything is about 1vs1, at the end of the day…….the team that reach 500 pts win