Guild Wars 2

I didn’t watch the video, but assuming the elementalist used ice bow. Then the whole video is moot. Ice bow as far as i’m concerned is a bug exploit, no different then sniping a mob that can’t hit you.

Gungnir Grimm.7123:

well, for we also have initiative as our class mechanic. we are the only class that can spam abilities, if all the complaints about how op HS spam is have escaped you. we can do things like evasion spam with certain builds that other classes have no hope of doing because of our flexible resource system. the problem comes when people ignore initiative because it is in the background. if you main a thief it is far less obvious than other mechanics, but no less powerful. also, as for modifying steal “only mug gets chosen” is full of crap. I know of several builds that take bountiful theft and/or thrill of the crime. honestly the only steal trait I never see is the daze on steal from 30 points into trickery.

^ Mostly this, but also:

IMO u have two F1’s. You steal. Then u have a bundle.

Rangers have two “F1’s as well imo”. They have their F2 active ability on both pets. Their F1 and F3 is more cheap and easy way to control a bad A.I

Warriors also have two F1’s. They have two burst skills.

Just be glad you have the initiative system as well as your “two” f1’s.

that’s actually a fantastic suggestion. How surprising. lol

it requires
30-0-0-0-30 last 10 points are preference.
Requires Full Zerker gear with scholar runes.
25 stacks of bloodlust
Sigil of Force/Night
10 Might (Sig of might,-Sig of rage)
10 Vulnerability (On my mark)
Butternut Curry
Sharpening Stone
and of course it requires a 2 sec channeled projectile to not get randomly obstructed, or reflected, or blocked, or dodged, or deflected.

All in all tho, when those things match up perfectly its actually a very fun build that i often use to snipe commanders to mess with the zerg. You could remove 10 points from str or disc. and get the piercing trait as well for a llittle more zerg ummph if you so desire. But i personally find piercing traits to be pretty trashy.

so bring a necro. At least HgH engies have a hard counter other then zerging them with 3+ people

Dasorine.1964:

even if after moving them to f1-2-3 you only got to pick 3 utilities that hit the enemy 100 damage each you’d still be gaining in power, but of course nothing is that weak.

A thief with 3 of the 4 deception skills given passively then gets to take ONTOP of those skills any 3 of: assassins signet, signet of agility, signet of shadows, infiltrators signet, roll for inititiative, caltrops, haste, scorpion wire etc etc etc.

Its not just venoms or traps left over.

The fact is if you just moved them to fskills they would either need to be nerfed to a point where those relying on them would then complain or it would make thieves much more power.

Those people with strong fskills get weaknesses else where, us with weak fskills get strengths else where, just doubling utilities with little thought is not going to be balanced in any shape of form.

This is just another vintage Daecollo suggestion that has very little thought put into it and mainly focused on the build they think is the only acceptable one and sod anyone who things otherwise.

Its a bad, it wont happen.

I’d give up, they clearly want no logic in this thread.

Sounds to me like he’s built properly for pve, and your not. If you were running S/P you could have stood still and soloed all the mobs untouched. If u were spamming DB with caltops you would have bled them out nearly untouched. IF your set on only using the SB then spamming cluster bomb-explode with signet of malice on your nigh invincible.

Travlane.5948:

wrong it was meant as in “individual” as I represented only myself and unarguably so bc i was the ONLY person typing my message and it was not therefore dictated to me. so you cant pick which definition suits your need.
so if im wrong who typed my message or dictated it to me to write? or who did i claim to represent if in the collective manner? sorry fail again bud

PS ….LOL @ you actually looking up the word “you” .

I as the writer dictate what the words i write mean. In that sentence it was meant as a generalization, which i clearly stated twice in further posts. If you chose to perceive what i write incorrectly that’s on you. If i say or write, “The man walked gaily down the street.” You can either perceive it as a homosexual slur and as a synonym for the word happily. No matter how you perceive the sentence, I as the original author of the sentence am the only one who can say what i meant when I wrote it.

P.S: I looked it up, not to find out the definition, but to provide the link for you. I gave the Hyperlink so you wouldn’t question the source or context of the definition.

Also i missed the only post where you actually responded to the topic, so i’ll at least respond to that.

Travlane.5948:

I’m sorry where did you get "At base initiative you get at minimum four casts of any two skill. They all cost three you have 12 initiative.

I was referring to the two skills. I.E Heartseaker, Infiltrators Strike, Body Shot, Cluster Bomb. They all cost three initiative. Sorry for not being clearer about that.

Travlane.5948:

I dont mind dropping it but i cant stop myself from calling you out on BS/lying I QUOTE you said…… """"For starters, CAPS DO NOT HELP MAKE YOUR POINT, THEY ONLY MAKE YOU LOOK LIKE A PREPUBESCENT CHILD. Anyway, now that that’s outta the way.""""" YOU YOU YOU…….hence i believe it WAS directed at me……i even looked “you” up in the dictionary to make sure(sarcasm) nice try getting out of that one. you were rude and irrational and it showed. now your either wicked insane , dellusional or a liar as i ahve pointed it out a few times. but lets just drop it there since defending yourself any further would only make it worse. lets stick to the topic shall we? ty

anyone else have anything they think could/should be changed/added into this idea?

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/you?s=t

one; anyone; people in general:

Who knew you didn’t actually mean “you”.

I assure you i’m not delusional, or wicked insane, or a lair. I just have a solid understanding of the English language, which appears to be quite rare these days.
Shrug

But anyways i’m done responding to you, as you clearly have nothing to say about my thoughts to the OP.

Travlane.5948:

you said that all caps makes me look like a prepubescent child? i merely stated that with that logic you would be a pedofile as i dont see the correlation. bc if caps = prepubescent …i am totally at a loss for words and if its true i’d have to accept the fact that you are a leading authority on prepubscent children. ikittennow alot about that and arent a doctor or psychologist or work in a school system. well what would you infer? well? what are you? are you a DR or something?

Sigh, already told you that it wasn’t directed at you, but was a broad generalization about people who talk in all caps. The fact that you refuse to drop a pointless tangent, and stay on topic like the mature adult you claim to be isn’t helping your case though.

Thesilentflute.8761:

This is a joke well necros are supper high dps, minion necros are almost unkillable without 2 players one to kill necro, and one to kite pets. One of the best melee in the game the most aoe in the game and involarability doesnt stop dot dmg so it doesnt matter if your enemy has it and your heal eats conditions. Tied for highest hp class in the game and you have your class ability that give you an extra health bar and high dmg abilities.

Not sure if trolling or…..

Travlane.5948:

srry i should have used the word claiming a name rather than calling? “PREPUBESCENT CHILD”

I literally have no idea what your trying to say. lol

Daecollo.9578:

SwickHobo.5096:

Daecollo.9578:

devaking.2397:

Daecollo.9578:

Dolyak Signet
Passive: Reduces incoming damage. (10%.)
Active: Gain stability.

Healing Signet
Passive: Grants regeneration. (463)
Active: Heal yourself.

Signet of Fury
Passive: Improves critical chance. (10%)
Active: Gain adrenaline.

Signet of Might
Passive: Improves out-going damage. (10%.)
Active: Gain might.

Signet of Stamina
Passive: Grants faster endurance regeneration. (50%.)
Active: Cure all conditions.

Signet of Rage
Passive: gain might for 5 seconds every 3 seconds
Active: Gain fury, might, and swiftness.

Warrior
(Move this trait up to major-master-grandmaster level.)
Signet Mastery – Signets recharges 20% faster. Signet Passives have been improved.

Dolyak Signet: Adds 5% more damage reduction.
Healing Signet: Adds 25% more passive healing.
Signet of Fury: Adds 5% more critical chance.
Signet of Might: Adds 5% out-going damage.
Signet of Stamina: Adds 25% Endurance Regeneration.
Signet of Rage: gain might for 10 seconds every 3 seconds.

uh 10% crit chance as a passive? ok thats no op…lets see, extra 10% dmg up to 15% not op at all and the elite…now thats just going too far….
lol forgot to mention….15% passive crit dmg is a little too much dont you think? plus fury that you can get from the elite and great justice is kinda overpowered.

Lets compare to our banner, which gives the ENTIRE group untraited 15% passive critical damage and 8% critical chance with one utility slot.

Guess that is overpowered.

No but using both as well as the perma fury, and the crit percentage trait based on your addren. You could achieve what, 4+8+15+9+20=56% crit chance with soldiers. That seems pretty OP to me….. Your need to think about how your suggestions will effect other skills traits and utilities before you deem them balanced.

Honestly signets will never have a place on a warriors bar as long as the passive effect remains a pure stat based bonus. Banners will now always have a higher stat bonus as they are a pain in the kitten to carry and micromanage at all times. So they have a higher upside. They’re gonna need to get creative to work something out. Like:

Dolyak Signet:
Passive: The next time you are stunned, shake it off (Internal CD of 30 seconds)
Active: Grants immunity to cripple/chills/immobilizes for 12 seconds

There’s no reason as to why each signet needs to give a passive stat boost.

So basicly, Dolyak signet is now just a WEAKER (by a lot.) version of a skill and trait that we already have?

You completely missed the point of my post. The point was that you need to get creative to make signets work. Stats aren’t gonna work. My idea may not be the best but considering it was literally thought up on the spot with next to no thought it was good enough to prove my point, or so i thought. But i have a feeling all u read was the “suggestion”.

Also, dolyak signet is now just a weaker (by a lot) version of balanced stance. The trait also goes off on a condition application not a stun. quite a big difference. Would also love to know what skill gives immunity to chill/cripple/immobilize. Wouldn’t mind using that myself.

Edit: in response to your edit.
Accepting or allowing what happens or what others do, without active response or resistance.

That’s the definition of passive. Sigils that proc on crit have an internal CD and are still passive effects at least in my eyes.

Travlane.5948:

calling people names actually makes you look like a prepubescent child. im a grown man with a family i support im 6’3 and a body builder with a BS in psychology (more than willing to trade facebook info but im sure you wont which says enough ). yeah so nice try tho. Caps is only on the important KEY words incase you were to simple to notice. You could read just the caps and understand the hole message in a nutshell. personally i like skimming most messages as they have lil to nothing of interest/value and putting certain words like that can allow others to quickly decide if they would like to read it or not. most recipes online are in caps…doesnt mean its rude or yelling….i cant put bold or italicized on here as i dont see the option. but im sure you took this into account being more smarter lol.

how is using 3 2x in a row maybe 3 if speced then waying 15 seconds for initiative to get back full a trade off compared to spamming skills without reprieve? i dont understand? yes i did forget fury might swiftness on steal. good point. thieves do get a lil offensive boost from steal if specced right however guards get alot more offensive and alot more defensive and alot more heals….. so…………..? :P it is does matter where it comes from bc from steal a thief has an option to get up to lik 6 or 7 things from it at a time whereas a guard gets triple that from f1 f2 f3 etc. utility skills cancel each other out bc they both ahve the same amount. so you can really only look at the class specific Fs.

I didn’t call anyone a name. I made a generalized statement about how talking in all caps makes anyone look like a un-grown child. I also don’t have a facebook account to exchange info with you, as social media never appealed to me.

The forum has bold btw, and it looks much nicer and is a lot less painful on the eyes. bold Just put a word in stars (CTRL+8) and it’ll be bolded. Italics also exist but this ins’t a tut on BBC coding so i’ll stop there. Being more smarter as you say, has its benefits i suppose.

At base initiative you get at minimum four casts of any two skill. They all cost three you have 12 initiative. If your going to bring numbers into this then try your best to not to lie. The trade of comes from being able to use the best skill for the specific situation. That guys at 25% hp and he just blinked away, I could use two heartseekers to close the gap quickly and finish him off. Ah man, he popped phase retreat, but i can still finish him off with another seeker. As opposed to a warrior. That guys at 25% hp i’ll close the gap with savage leap, and finish him off. Oh wait i didn’t reach, plus he phase retreated so now hes even further away. Good thing i can still use my 3-5 skills, shame none of them will close that gap. That’s a trade off. You can adapt to any situation in the best possible way as long as your initiative allows it. And other classes can adapt to any situation in the best possible way as long as their cooldowns allow it.

The point about where it comes from still stands. Just because they both have a six skill, doesn’t mean they are both equal. You can have thirty different keys that doesn’t mean those thirty don’t do the same as those ten. (or something equally impressive/important)

Daecollo.9578:

devaking.2397:

Daecollo.9578:

Dolyak Signet
Passive: Reduces incoming damage. (10%.)
Active: Gain stability.

Healing Signet
Passive: Grants regeneration. (463)
Active: Heal yourself.

Signet of Fury
Passive: Improves critical chance. (10%)
Active: Gain adrenaline.

Signet of Might
Passive: Improves out-going damage. (10%.)
Active: Gain might.

Signet of Stamina
Passive: Grants faster endurance regeneration. (50%.)
Active: Cure all conditions.

Signet of Rage
Passive: gain might for 5 seconds every 3 seconds
Active: Gain fury, might, and swiftness.

Warrior
(Move this trait up to major-master-grandmaster level.)
Signet Mastery – Signets recharges 20% faster. Signet Passives have been improved.

Dolyak Signet: Adds 5% more damage reduction.
Healing Signet: Adds 25% more passive healing.
Signet of Fury: Adds 5% more critical chance.
Signet of Might: Adds 5% out-going damage.
Signet of Stamina: Adds 25% Endurance Regeneration.
Signet of Rage: gain might for 10 seconds every 3 seconds.

uh 10% crit chance as a passive? ok thats no op…lets see, extra 10% dmg up to 15% not op at all and the elite…now thats just going too far….
lol forgot to mention….15% passive crit dmg is a little too much dont you think? plus fury that you can get from the elite and great justice is kinda overpowered.

Lets compare to our banner, which gives the ENTIRE group untraited 15% passive critical damage and 8% critical chance with one utility slot.

Guess that is overpowered.

No but using both as well as the perma fury, and the crit percentage trait based on your addren. You could achieve what, 4+8+15+9+20=56% crit chance with soldiers. That seems pretty OP to me….. Your need to think about how your suggestions will effect other skills traits and utilities before you deem them balanced.

Honestly signets will never have a place on a warriors bar as long as the passive effect remains a pure stat based bonus. Banners will now always have a higher stat bonus as they are a pain in the kitten to carry and micromanage at all times. So they have a higher upside. They’re gonna need to get creative to work something out. Like:

Dolyak Signet:
Passive: The next time you are stunned, shake it off (Internal CD of 30 seconds)
Active: Grants immunity to cripple/chills/immobilizes for 12 seconds

There’s no reason as to why each signet needs to give a passive stat boost.

Travlane.5948:

@SWICKHOBO……. really? eles can def spam SKILLS 2-5 for HOURS without stopping. YES …..its a fact. also look at engis skills f1 2 3 4 etc….engis dont even use their utilities bc of those skills they want them up bc they are better! also look at guards… JUST with ther F1-4 they can do this :
REGENATION-
RETALIATION-
FULL HEAL –
MULTIPLE AEGIS-
REMOVE SEVERAL CONDITIONS)-
MULTIPLE BURN-
MULTIPLE PROTECTION-
STUN BREAK
STABILITY
REGENERATION
MIGHT

ON these you can also get RETALIATION from removal of aegis ….HEALS from removal of aegis….HEALS from sharing all these with allies…..AOE burning…..and other stuff that doesnt come to mind…..

ALL FROM …thats right……….. F1 F2 F3 F4

no posibilities on thief F1 (yeah only 1 lol :P )

EXTRA DMG
EXTRA SKILL (50% of them are bunk)
1 SEC STUN
CHANCE AT REFRESHING SKILL
STEAL 2 BOONS

On the guardian you can spec for ALL! on a thief u can get umm….maybe 3 of them. you telling me its OP if we get a few more skills not even the same power but modified down? ….sounds like….hate :P fail. if u are going to argue/debate great. theres no hate on my/our side as thieves. however come correct. come with facts, correlations and not feelings/opinions that are just i dont like it its overpowerd.

For starters, CAPS DO NOT HELP MAKE YOUR POINT, THEY ONLY MAKE YOU LOOK LIKE A PREPUBESCENT CHILD. Anyway, now that that’s outta the way.

Eles can spam 2-5 non stop, u can use 3 multiple times in a row. Its called a trade off. Google it.

You also left out The team fury/might/swiftness on steal. And the vigor from Bountiful theft. You also cannot have all those things you listed on a guard at the same time. Besides it doesn’t matter one bit where all the listed things come from, whether it be f1-4 or skill 6. The class mechanics are in place and they are very unlikely to change.

Dasorine.1964:

SwickHobo.5096:

Travlane.5948:

SwickHobo.5096:

Daecollo.9578:

Deception Skills should be the thieves base skills they unlock as they level.

F1: Steal
F2: Smoke Screen
F3: Shadow Refuge
F4: Shadow Step

Shadow Step is always going to be a member of the utility bar anyways, why not make it a base thief mechanic?

I’ve got a better suggestion. Before you press the “Create new thread” button, reread what you just typed, and really really think about what your saying. Its getting quite old to see a new thread on a near daily basis that has you suggesting things that are completely out of whack and just insanely unbalanced. Your class mechanics are steal and initiative. Thanks to initiative you don’t get a f2-4. Get over it.

thanks to intiative…what a noob thing to say…. eles can spam spells nonstop for hours…LITERALLY. we can use 2 skillls and then wait for it to refill ……. look at engineers/mesmers they get f1-f4 with GOOD DMG skills cmon. atleast have a general idea of how other classes are played before making a hate comment. FAIL.

Effectiveness of said mechanics isn’t what i’m arguing about. Initiative whether you like it or not is your mechanic. Thanks to the existence of it, you get less then others. You can also spam 1 for hours LITERALLY. Just saying.

Everyone can spam 1 for hours, the fact that the thief can use 2-5 back to back less than others…

Technically if you get into it a thief does have probably the most profession mechanics (steal, dual skills, stealth attacks and initiative) but if they are all fairly weak it doesn’t mean changes, improvements and additions can’t be done.

Yes but not everyone can spam 2-2-2. Or 3-3-3, or 4-2-4 or w/e combination is needed at the specific time. Its a trade off, maybe not a good one, but one non the less

Technically your right. I welcome improvements and changes that are fair and balanced. What Daellco suggested (or really every suggests) is completely unbalanced in every sense of the word.

Adding more f skills (especially ones of that caliber) is not the way to balance the thief, they have all the tools already they just need number tweaking atm.

Travlane.5948:

SwickHobo.5096:

Daecollo.9578:

Deception Skills should be the thieves base skills they unlock as they level.

F1: Steal
F2: Smoke Screen
F3: Shadow Refuge
F4: Shadow Step

Shadow Step is always going to be a member of the utility bar anyways, why not make it a base thief mechanic?

I’ve got a better suggestion. Before you press the “Create new thread” button, reread what you just typed, and really really think about what your saying. Its getting quite old to see a new thread on a near daily basis that has you suggesting things that are completely out of whack and just insanely unbalanced. Your class mechanics are steal and initiative. Thanks to initiative you don’t get a f2-4. Get over it.

thanks to intiative…what a noob thing to say…. eles can spam spells nonstop for hours…LITERALLY. we can use 2 skillls and then wait for it to refill ……. look at engineers/mesmers they get f1-f4 with GOOD DMG skills cmon. atleast have a general idea of how other classes are played before making a hate comment. FAIL.

Effectiveness of said mechanics isn’t what i’m arguing about. Initiative whether you like it or not is your mechanic. Thanks to the existence of it, you get less then others. You can also spam 1 for hours LITERALLY. Just saying.

Daecollo.9578:

Deception Skills should be the thieves base skills they unlock as they level.

F1: Steal
F2: Smoke Screen
F3: Shadow Refuge
F4: Shadow Step

Shadow Step is always going to be a member of the utility bar anyways, why not make it a base thief mechanic?

I’ve got a better suggestion. Before you press the “Create new thread” button, reread what you just typed, and really really think about what your saying. Its getting quite old to see a new thread on a near daily basis that has you suggesting things that are completely out of whack and just insanely unbalanced. Your class mechanics are steal and initiative. Thanks to initiative you don’t get a f2-4. Get over it.

JJBigs.8456:

Warriors. Not my opinion, its the communities, just showing you so you dont make a mistake. My warrior can hit 35k-50k+. Id like to see thief/ele do that. Guess how? Other warriors utilities, buffing me

Source: Goto gw2lfg.com, type in “Warrior” then type in “Ele”. See which are wanted on runs more.

Dont take any sole person’s opinion as fact here, as it doesnt matter what they think. Remember your trying to get in multiple groups, over multiple days, in multiple dungeons. You need to go with whats popular, even if some people believe it to be ineffective otherwise on forums.

In the right circumstances Ele’s Firey Greatsword out dpses anything and everything. I also wouldn’t site gw2lfg as any sort of proof as they are unable to think for themselves and will just go with the flavor of the month. If someone tells them 4 wars/1 mes is the fastest cof they’ll believe it regardless of whether or not its true.

Noone ever thinks the class they play are OP. Just saying.

Farzo.8410:

This is my experience meeting an Elementalist

http://www.grapheine.com/bombaytv/v2/play.php?id=157807

Haha Epic win.

5 signet pro right there.

mursie.3681:

I don’t know why ele’s don’t use scepter/dagger. am i missing something? you get range attacks… an additional heal in water…. and a protection buff in earth. The set seems superior to dagger dagger in every way.

I have never understood this. The only draw back i guess would be the loss of shocking aura…which is awesome…but scepter/dagger has some pretty nice stuff.

You lose a lot of AoE damage (Burning speed, Ring of Earth, Dragons breath, cone of cold)

Lose a lot of soft Cc (Ring of earth’s cripple, AoE chill, Magnetic’s immob.)

Lose a fantastic tanking tool in shocking aura.

And you gain:

Pheonix, and an on demand blind and 300 toughness.

Everything else is pretty situational or impossible to land or on par with a equal dagger skill I.E (cone of cold=Water trident) Scepter also has some pretty terrible Auto attacks compared to dagger minus Earth. But very few eles focus on conditions.

Dragonbrand is currently open

Better idea, lets make every condition over powered….o wait that was your idea. my bad.

Apolo.5942:

Brigg.6189:

why use a warrior here and not a ranger?

Sad attempt to make warriors seem relevant?.

Cause warrior auto attack is 2 100% projectile finishers. and its 2 is 3 100% projectile finishers. Its 4 and 5 are also guaranteed finishers while rangers have 20% on each skill.

A/M-M/A actually makes a fantastic PvE combo if your into dungeon running and hate the greatsword.

Stack vuln and DPS with A/M then switch to M/A (with fast hands) to get a quick block off with 2, then build your addren back up in a hurry with axe 5. Switch back and repeat.

The rating system works in weird and mysterious ways. However the more tournies you play the more accurate your rating will be. So if you continued to play and lets say lost idk 5 more matches in a row. Your rank would decrease with each loss and then eventually you’d be playing against people with your skill level.

TakaEagle.9486:

That moment when you get 90% for both tpvp and achievements…cries in corner Q_Q

Haha i’m 90% for both as well.

buttski.6135:

deathmatch is pretty boring and would bring many balancing issues.

How so? People constantly say the game isn’t balanced around 1v1. I think the game would be “perfectly” balanced around a 5v5. It’d be no different then the large scale team fights that often take place at mid in Legacy of Foefire. A team arena (citing gw1) would be a great addition to the game. Even if it didn’t get “esport” attention, it would still keep casuals entertained a lot more then running in circles. It would also add depth and new build variety. All the sudden maybe venom thieves aren’t so bad since your 4 teammates are always nearby. Maybe this team wants to go condition heavy and run a trap ranger, Hgh engie and 2 epidemic necros with a guardian anchor. This would actually require thought rather then just running w/e build is good by itself. The only things they would need to do is balance Elites out, and that could be easily solved if you make it a best out of three where the CD carries through to the next round/s

Blackhat.4016:

@SwickHobo.5096

I agree with you about rangers having less viable condition removals than eles and that the bunker build is a little to strong right now. Why would you correct Arheundel.6451 and then write the exact same bs about eles though?

• “Stop Drop and Roll” – Nobody uses this trait. And I mean nobody.
• “Healing Rain” – Staff in PvP? Good luck with that.
• “Magnetic Wave” – Focus in PvP? Good luck with that.
• “Cleansing Fire” – This one is ok but most players I know prefer Lightning Flash as their 3rd utility skill.
• “Signet of Water” – No comment on this one…

=> “They have sooooo many options and all of them are viable w/o having to give up anything.”

Also not true. You have to spend 30 points in Water and Arcana and use 3 (!) cantrips to have all the condition removal. You give up the majority of your damage output for this. At the same time there is no other viable build which Anet already mentioned in the last SotG.

Like I said before I agree that the bunker build is a little too strong right now but at the same time every other build is pretty bad compared to other professions. Anet needs to find a good balance between nerfs/buffs for the ele.

I know nobody uses those i was just listing them because the ranger did the same thing. Although you undervalue the focus, but neither here nor there. lol

Spending 30 points into water/arcane is something i don’t consider “giving” up anything as that’s the build the way its suppose to be. Giving up to me is having to decide between this trait and that trait. Condition removal or stun breaks. Mobility or sturdyness. Burst or sustained. The cookie cutter ele doesn’t really have those choices because cantrips are both con removal and stun breaks. Hes pretty much forced into x/x/x/30/30 because the water traits are WAAAAY to good to pass up. The attunement swapping is equally important as well. Mobility comes with the weapon skills. They also have two bursty skills (albeit both hard as hell to land) in churning and fire grab, and their sustain is subperb as well thanks to larger AoE’s. Perma burning and plenty of might.

Couldn’t agree more with the last paragraph you wrote tho. Cookie cutter ele is too good, every other ele build is warrior level bad. They got their work cut out for them that’s for sure.

Arheundel.6451:

SwickHobo.5096:

Swim.6830:

@SwickHobo.5096 – I don’t see you complaining about bunker rangers that are even more mobile and actually EVADE your attacks WHILE rooted and WHILE executing said movement abilities… Also if you don’t know how to force an Ele to use up all the cantrips, please ask or don’t post BS. I have no issues on my Warrior or Necro. You simply have to scare the Ele away in the example you made.

Rangers have little to no con removal so poison will literally destroy them and make them 1v1able in a respectable time. They also have maybe 1 Stun break that doesn’t come from some garbage unreliable trait. They also have no stability, the strongest bunker boon (apart from protection maybe) except on RoA which has a very very lomg CD. You can only bait out breaks on average players. A good player will not panic when stunned or feared and auto break it, but see what you do to follow that stun. If its worth breaking they’ll do it on reaction to w/e your using. Not just cause they’re stunned. Ele’s stun breaks are on respectable CD’s. especially lightning flash. And of course Armor of earth x2 is pretty anti CC for a lot longer then it takes for a person to respawn. My problem with the ele isn’t how good it is, but the fact that it has no hard counter. Conditions will melt a bunker ranger/mesmer. Heavy sustained damage will down a bunker guardian. A bunker thief can’t reliably stay on point so he can tank forever with no plus side. Engies are extremely weak against conditions on some builds, burst on others. Ele is good against everything. Has an answer for everything. Isn’t countered by anything except in excess. Its poor design. Period.

Rangers have little to no con removal so poison will literally destroy them

-Emphatic Bond
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Empathic_Bond
-Evasive Purity
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Empathic_Bond
-Signet of Renewal
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Signet_of_Renewal
-Shake it off
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Shake_It_Off
-Healing spring
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Healing_Spring
-Nature’s Renewal
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Nature%27s_Renewal

They also have maybe 1 Stun break

-Lightning Reflex
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Lightning_Reflexes
-Signet of Renewal
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Lightning_Reflexes

The rest is just a mix of disinformation, biased opinion and what I see is just another “pro soloer” trying to kill a full bunker with his trusted “build” used for the last 4-5 months

Empathetic bond is the only reliable removal they have other then the signet. Bond is very very very easily to bait out since its AI controlled.

Evasive purity is trash, and i’m unaware of any ranger bunker build that specs 30 into Nature Magic.

Signet of renewal is good but on a very long cd. Poison is easily reapplied by most classes that have access to it. The passive effect won’t cut it.

Since when do ranger’s use Bears in pvp? Must have missed that memo.

Most rangers use Troll unguent especially for bunkering as far as i know. Although healing spring is decent enough, but you can easily force people off of it depending on your classes availablility to AoEs.

Using the spirit elite makes you susceptible to stun lock since you lack stability. Also loose out on entangle one of the best team fight elites in the game Imo.

Rangers may have plenty of condition removal but like warriors they have to give up a lot(everything for warriors) to obtain the amount that guardians/Eles have.

Considering you basically just listed everything a ranger has for removal if you did the same for an ele the list would be at least twice as long.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Cleansing_Wave_
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Stop_Drop_and_Roll
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Cleansing_Water
All the synergy with other traits makes this trait OP as hell compared to other ……removals
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Cleansing_Wave
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Healing_Rain
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Phoenix
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Magnetic_Wave
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Cleansing_Fire
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Signet_of_Water
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Evasive_Arcana

They have sooooo many options and all of them are viable w/o having to give up anything. Cleansing water alone is miles better then empathetic bond even tho both are 30 point traits. Ele is either OP, OR every other class needs to be brought up there with eles. As i like all the synergy their builds has. Just is way to good compared to everything else.

Swim.6830:

@SwickHobo.5096 – I don’t see you complaining about bunker rangers that are even more mobile and actually EVADE your attacks WHILE rooted and WHILE executing said movement abilities… Also if you don’t know how to force an Ele to use up all the cantrips, please ask or don’t post BS. I have no issues on my Warrior or Necro. You simply have to scare the Ele away in the example you made.

Rangers have little to no con removal so poison will literally destroy them and make them 1v1able in a respectable time. They also have maybe 1 Stun break that doesn’t come from some garbage unreliable trait. They also have no stability, the strongest bunker boon (apart from protection maybe) except on RoA which has a very very lomg CD. You can only bait out breaks on average players. A good player will not panic when stunned or feared and auto break it, but see what you do to follow that stun. If its worth breaking they’ll do it on reaction to w/e your using. Not just cause they’re stunned. Ele’s stun breaks are on respectable CD’s. especially lightning flash. And of course Armor of earth x2 is pretty anti CC for a lot longer then it takes for a person to respawn. My problem with the ele isn’t how good it is, but the fact that it has no hard counter. Conditions will melt a bunker ranger/mesmer. Heavy sustained damage will down a bunker guardian. A bunker thief can’t reliably stay on point so he can tank forever with no plus side. Engies are extremely weak against conditions on some builds, burst on others. Ele is good against everything. Has an answer for everything. Isn’t countered by anything except in excess. Its poor design. Period.

Erukk.1408:

Logan was the one that had to stay behind to release the cord in Orr, because Mr. Sparkles was too important to the group.

Funniest thing in this thread by far. Truthful too.

Daecollo.9578:

SwickHobo.5096:

This game was not better in beta. If you seriously think that your insane. People just didn’t know what was good or how to counter anything in beta. So everything seemed good. I can assure you it wasn’t good in hindsight.

They nerfed so many abilities/builds/took away so many abilities.

They also buffed so many abilities/made new builds viable. I fail to see your point… Remember when people thought Venom builds were so OP they needed a nerf….. Or how about HB? Now those builds are considered trash, and for a good reason.

This game was not better in beta. If you seriously think that your insane. People just didn’t know what was good or how to counter anything in beta. So everything seemed good. I can assure you it wasn’t good in hindsight.

Swim.6830:

Archaon.6245:

kostbabis.8791:

Archaon what you are talking about is just frustrating gameplay for you..Doesnt necessarily means imbalance… He could be entirely worthless for the whole match offering nothing for the team or putting any meaningful pressure to far and still escape death as you mention
.Just saying

I’m not frustrated…i already know that eles are coming side and even if i manage to get them they can keep healing and coming back on demand, everyone knows it…as everyone knows that a bunker ele (And that’s the only class that can do that) can easily rush alone to your side at the beginning and keep it contested until you bring at least 2 ppl to kill him while being outnumbered at mid…you don’t even rant anymore you know it’s how things work, it’s just about dealing with it while devs are still busy nerfing warriors and planning awesome pve events…the whole pvp community knows the actual sotg about eles, someone just refuse to admit it because they only play ele and they can’t/don’t want to play anything else…so they obviously don’t want their class to be balanced, but if you look at every class comparison thread on this forum you’ll see that ele is number one in every single “class ladder” there are mesmers/rangers at 2nd and necros engis and so on spread through middle positions and warriors at the bottom…but everywhere ele is always 1st place and war is last…so no, it’s not only my opinion…

So a bunker specced guardian, thief, mesmer, necro, engineer and ranger should be able to fight against 2 people while having the same (if not better) healing, but an Ele’s almost ONLY viable build (which happens to be bunker) is not acceptable? You don’t see people playing it BECAUSE these classes have more viable builds which can actually kill and be well all around. And if people start complaining about mobility, I’ll say thief is worse, as they can stealth and heal while being NEAR you for the next burst, while you see an Ele coming from miles away.

Just for information, my main was Ele, then Mesmer, then Warrior, then Necro and I switched back to Ele quite recently when I saw all the crying… and I really don’t see the fuss about it as I can kill Eles with my Warrior in tPvP. I don’t even need to comment on the Mesmer. Necro is good, but I am yet to get the full hang of it.

Protip – anything that stuns, interrupts or impairs movement in ANY way ruins any Ele.

lol epic fail post. No one cares that an ele can bunker. No one cares that they have excellent mobility. They care that they have both. Takes 2-3 of us to down the mid guardian in a respectable time before he can get a load of back up, and just as we do wouldn’t you know it. Ele came all the way from the far point and can survive long enough for the guardian to respawn and run aaaalllllll the way back. Bunkers should never be mobile. If you didn’t notice all the bunkers you listed aren’t mobile. Except the thief, and idk who runs a bunker thief as they are a joke to kill.

Protip: An Ele mains 3 stun breakers, 4 if traited in earth which is increasing in popularity. Each of these not only breaks stuns but also removes at least one condition. They also have a high uptime on stability which negates all cc effects.

Fail idea is fail.

Lumines.3916:

If you’re an engineer, grenade kit is the easiest way to deal with such a mesmer. You either dodge the phantasm generating attack or keep eyes on the animations of said phantasms to dodge their attacks.

Grenade kit offers you fat AoEs that is the most reliable way to deal with a mob of illusions. One thing I do need to remind you of is that phantasm mesmers will probably have retaliation on their phants, so be careful.

If you absolutely can’t stand grenades, the only other worthwhile option would be the bomb kit. Big O’ Bomb can give you much needed space and crapping bombs on point will blow up any phantasms trying to melee you. The downside to this approach is that the Mesmer itself can easily kite around you while sending phantasms to their demise.

Engineers with the HGH build is actually one of the Mesmer’s best counters.

unless they have retal then u auto kill yourself. lol

it adds vulnerability. Making it suppliment you AA very nicely. However its only worthwhile in a 5 man team setting.

Edit: ah my bad thought you meant cyclone axe. WA is a fantastic addren. builder thanks to the sheer number of attacks. It pretty much guarantees a full 3 bars if used with the right traits or with multiple enemies nearby. It also has a high chance to proc on crit effects even if your crit chance is relatively low. It will not however out DPS the axe AA ever.

Y u steal my build bro? I use pretty much the same exact thing although i forgo leg specialist for the 10% GS dmg trait in str. I also use Valk. Ammy as i loose next to no damage and gain a huge boost to survivability. As long as i always toss out a HB after every stun i land, they will run outta breakers before i fall. I also still use frenzy over endure pain. It can make all the difference in a duel IF used properly. Going
Skull Crack- 3/4th a HB- Bulls rush- Whirling Atk- Rush/2 auto swings is pretty much a auto gg against all classes assuming no breaks. And if they somehow managed to survive you could switch to m/s again and chain it into a shield bash or rupt their heal with pommel pretty much sealing the deal. Its a sweet build, i was gonna do a write up myself but now i don’t have too.

Ps: I also use addren. rush instead of mending.

Vicarious.3047:

SwickHobo.5096:

Ele’s do not have the highest DPS as DPS. Nowhere near tbh. They do not have the highest sutain either. They can do both moderately well which is what makes them so good. On top of their mobility/group support of course. Ele’s aren’t really all that OP. They are powerful, and are currently the best class, but OP seems a bit of a stretch. IF you ever lose to an Ele in 1v1 combat its a L2 kitten ue on your part. It should always be a stalemate unless you are the squishiest of the squishies. My warrior can sit and tank an ele all day with no issues what so ever. and if a warrior can do it, anyone can.

Also HB is still one of the best ways to down an ele. Especially in teamfights. Any ability that can effectively drop his hp from 100-0 is a fantastic way to prevent healing. You just gotta bait out all of his 3 stun breaks in a 34 second period. Hard, but not impossible.

Freaking seriously?

Sure I’ll agree that eles do not have the highest damage output but it’s FAR from lack luster. If you’re not doing a lot of damage as a d/d ele then you’re simply playing it wrong.

Also 100B will never fully hit any opponent who isn’t a total scrub now that quickness is 50% speed increase, and if a warrior actually still uses that combo you can still take the knockdown and then move out of the way of the end of it, avoiding AT LEAST 25% of the total damage. On top of that you can literally 3 shot a warrior on frenzy as an ele due to the remaining 50% increased damage debuff.

“BUT DEY KAN UZE EDNUR PAAAAIN!”

Right, that means the warrior has no more utilities once you avoid his easy to avoid 100B combo and he also has near to none condi removal (if he actually just doesn’t have none, cause that’s very common as a warrior for many reasons).

Basically saying an ele can be killed by a 100B is a total lie, at least if we’re talking about the same lvl of play that the OP is.

Also did you seriously say an ele shouldn’t win a 1v1? Eles are THE BEST 1v1 class atm besides MAYBE mesmers.

If you’re tanky you can’t do enough damage to the constantly healing ele, if you’re condi damage the ele will almost instantaneously remove your condis, if you’re high burst the ele can stun break an insane amount of times plus squish you cause you’re a glass canon.

Eles are by definition Overpowered right now, everyone knows it besides people who only play ele or only play against bad players.

Ele dps is lackluster as hell if u dodge their only 3 painful attacks. Ele’s will never lose a 1v1, but they should never win one if your even half competent. Their Dps is average and can be dealt with w/ any number of things. IF your not good enough to do that its not my problem.

And yes its much harder to kill and ele with HB now but still not impossible. Properly geared You can easily land a 3 sec Skull crack which will let u finish the whole HB if you so desire. Or better yet u can Stop the HB at the final attack and use bulls rush u can Kd them for another 2 secs which will give you enough time to WW into rush/auto atk chain pretty much guaranteeing death on any class that relies strictly on heals. If your Cd’s aligned perfectly you could even follow up with a shield bash for a total of 7 sec stuns. Even got a pommel bash if they somehow managed to survive. Plus i said especially in team fights where other can stun for you. But w/e continue being ignorant.

Ele’s do not have the highest DPS as DPS. Nowhere near tbh. They do not have the highest sutain either. They can do both moderately well which is what makes them so good. On top of their mobility/group support of course. Ele’s aren’t really all that OP. They are powerful, and are currently the best class, but OP seems a bit of a stretch. IF you ever lose to an Ele in 1v1 combat its a L2 kitten ue on your part. It should always be a stalemate unless you are the squishiest of the squishies. My warrior can sit and tank an ele all day with no issues what so ever. and if a warrior can do it, anyone can.

Also HB is still one of the best ways to down an ele. Especially in teamfights. Any ability that can effectively drop his hp from 100-0 is a fantastic way to prevent healing. You just gotta bait out all of his 3 stun breaks in a 34 second period. Hard, but not impossible.

try a focus ele. They GG engies all day. And pretty much everything that isnt a bunker tbh.

Allie Murdock.8152:

Hey all, thanks for the feedback! Instead of removing Spirit Watch from the rotation, I’d like to point you towards some changes that Tyler has made that should address some of the issues you have brought up. This thread is located in the suggestions section: Spirit Watch – How to improve Orb. [sPvP].

While the idea of swapping the orb carriers skills is an interesting one, like you said, we feel it’s best that the individual player be able to use their skills. Changing an entire skill bar can be jarring for the player, especially in PvP, so we try to avoid it when we can.

Beyond that, we welcome any suggestions for additional changes!

His changes are a good start. But RtL isn’t the only issue. Orb Mobility is waaay to high for some classes. Ele’s take all the head (as usual) but classes like Rangers can run the orb all day and they are practically unkillable. They have 2 many dodges (which aren’t effected by the “slow effect”) They have 2 many leaps. They have AoE immobs, and their pet can still dps/cc people while running. Also the communing situation is really really gimmicky too. Having a guard pop Ring of warding into Shield of absorb. While any1 else communes is practically impossible to deal with. Your only option is Stability at that point, which only a few classes have access to. Plus then the guard can pop Aegis or many other of his AoE blocks to guarantee the orb gets picked up.
This map is great from a design point. But no other map pigeonholds you into certain professions more then this map. And that is a terrible terrible thing.

Your almost forced to bring an Ele/BM ranger for running
a Trap ranger/necro for unblockable marks/traps as they are the only way to interrupt the cheese.
a Guard for setting up the orb pick ups
Then off course you still need your bunkers I.E another guard and maybe an engie to round it all off.

Can’t tell you how many times i’ve seen exactly that party comp. Its nearly impossible to beat w/o the same exact team. Imo that’s quite imbalanced.

If you want some suggestions they best one is to still give the orb a unique skill set but since u guys seem unwilling to do so:

Maybe when u pick up the orb you lose access to your utilities. This would greatly hinder survivability and make carrying the orb much harder and actually require a team effort.

Maybe when you pick up the orb your stunned (unbreakable) for 2 seconds. This would give the opponent team sufficient time to get to the orb in an attempt to stop them. as it currently takes at least 3-4 people to drop the carrier in its current state.

Maybe you make carriers immune to boons to emphasize clutch KD’s/ KB’s off of bridges. Although this would prolly make a roaming Guard a must thanks to all their wards.

Maybe the orb gives u a debuff much like the hammer in fractals. Every 15 seconds you get stunned for 2 seconds while holding it.

Idk just spit balling here.

Eurantien.4632:

Sword jumps are already reduced while carrying the orb.

they still leap far to far. Considering the orb is more rewarding then svanir/chief. It should take a lot longer to run it imo.

Tyler Bearce.3427:

I’ve made some changes to orb running that’ll show up in the end of April build. Ride the Lightning distance will be reduced while carrying the the orb, and gaining invulnerability will drop it.

Glad to hear about the invulnerability change, and even the RTL. But do you have any plans to nerf things such as Ranger GS-3, or Sword 2 as well or just RTL?

Don’t get me wrong i love the map. its prolly my favorite from a design PoV. However it is soooooo incredibly unbalanced. With the release of the leaderboards i think this map needs to take a short break off the rotation until you can properly balance the orb.

S/D-GS Rangers can run the orb faster then Eles by quite a bit actually. The main differences being that the ranger cant get the orb reliably by himself with the recent quickness nerf. And also that he’s not as much as a factor outside of the running game. I have no problem with eles being able to run the orb that wel;, but i do have an issue with them being able to run it that well AND dominate the actual fights. Kinda bogus.

Mug is currently waaaay to good for a 10 point trait. Rather then them nerfing it tho i much rather see it moved to a 20 point slot.