(edited by Tadsoul.6951)
I have updated the orignal post to reflect the changes people have brought up.
Removed dark pact
Well of darkness ice field
wail of doom blast finisher instead of locust swarm
dark path acting similar to ride the lightning could also work however that is adding even more mobility to it than making it similar to flashing blade.
I feel dark path would be better to improve than to add mobility to weapon skills because outside of death shroud we already can do things if people try to sit at 1500 to counter it. However inside death shroud we can’t do anything to counter that weakness.
When it comes to the weapon skill adding all those combo finisher i agree would be too much but they should add some of those.
dark pact yea i admit that one was spur of the moment because i was looking at things like
pin down
signet of earth
going to scrap the dark pact change
@anchoku I don’t think i understand what you want to change dark path to.
it sounds like nerf
Utilities
Healing
well of blood
water field or
buff it
Corruption
blood is power
might (10 stacks) 12 seconds
bleeding (4 stacks) 15 seconds
self bleeding (2 stacks) 10 seconds
Signet
signet of the undeath
cast time 2 seconds
Plague signet
breaks stun and remove conditions regardless of failure or not
Well
well of darkness
change to ice field
Spectral
spectral grasp
add projectile finisher
Elite
plague form
stability (3 stacks) 3 seconds
pulse 3 seconds
immobilize duration decrease
chill duration decrease
cripple duration decrease
duration decrease 33%
(edited by Tadsoul.6951)
Once again wall of text warning!
I offer a lot of places for combo finishers on the necromancer weapon
I don’t expect all of them to make it
I tried to keep the discription of the change short if you want a more detailed discription plz ask
Death shroud
Lifeblast
add projectile finisher
Dark path
remove the projectile
make the teleport work like flashing blade except with a cast time
Weapons
Dagger
deathly swarm
add projectile finisher
enfeebling blood
add blast finisher
Axe
Ghastly claws
add whirl finsher
unholy feast
add blast finisher
Scepter
feast of corruption
weakness 5 seconds
damage per condition 8%
life force 3%
focus
reaper’s touch
add projectile finisher
Spinal shivers
cast time 1 second
warhorn
wail of doom
add blast finisher
(edited by Tadsoul.6951)
necromancer are very important in WvW
look at backline gvgs
snip
How about this then
reaper’s precision
you have a chance to gain life force and apply weakness on critical hits
chance on critical hit 25%
life force gain 1
weakness 3 sec
for speed of shadow i was thinking of a similar thing however i think immunity to immobilize would be to strong instead it prevents the next immobilize I think would be better balanced
snip
Quick question did you mean life transfer instead of life siphon?
I think making a trait that allows healing in death shroud would be poor game design for 3 reasons.
1.from a pug view you do not know if the necromancer can be healed while in death shroud
2. all heals that allies apply are done rapidly. This means it is skillful play for the necromancer and his team to either coordinate or watch for when his teammates are going to do group healing
3. being able to recieve heals from teammates while in death shroud would probably be far to strong
This being said while i do agree with regen persisting through death shroud with the trait suggestion i mentioned we would no longer need the vampiric traits to function in death shroud to be useful
(edited by Tadsoul.6951)
Blood Magic
Minor
(grandmaster)Blood to power
Increases damage to bleeding foe
damage increase 5%
Major
(I) note I havent thought of a replacement
(V)vampiric thirst
your next attack skill steals health after using your heal skill
damage 1000
healing 1000
(X)quickening thirst
Increases movement speed for wielding a dagger.
reduces recharge in dagger skills
movement speed increase 25%
recharge reduce 20%
(XII) Vampiric rituals 15 second recharge
steal heal after using a well skill
duration 5 seconds
healing 200
damage 200
note this isnt limited to one hit, you steal health with every hit achieved for 5 seconds after the well has been use
(XIII) Unholy sancturary
see link
note its only moved nothing changed
Soul reaping
Major
(V) change speed of shadows
(edited by Tadsoul.6951)
Feedback is always welcome, try to keep it constructive
If a Anet personal visit this forum thread I know you guys don’t have time to read a wall of text so i suggest just looking at One of the trait lines
Spite
Minor
(grandmaster)Meet the Grave
Your attacks inflict Vulnerability
Vulnerability 5 sec
Major
(XI)Dhuumfire 10 second recharge
Lifeblast will inflict burning on your target
Burning 4 sec
Curses
Major
(V) Spectral attuement
sprectral skill have longer durations and grant life force on use
life force 5%
duration increase 50%
(X)reaper’s precision 15 second recharge
gain life force and apply weakness on critical hits
Weakness 5 sec
Life force 3%
note i feel both of these traits are to powerful for adept teir
(XII)note: i haven’t thought of a replacement trait for the grandmaster
Death Magic
Major
(VI) Shrouded consumption
Condition converted to boons : 1
(XII)Necromantic Corruption
lifeblast will remove a boon on your target
boons removed 1
(XIII)Unholy martyr
Remove conditions from allies while in death shroud, gaining life force each time a condition is removed
condition removed 1
life force 5%
number of targets 1
interval 3 seconds
radius 600
note unholy sanctuary is moving to blood magic trait line
(edited by Tadsoul.6951)
I don’t have any screenshots or videos but i have a question are we allowed to include proc Chill of death, air, fire, sigil
i think my highest crit has been 13k
Also yesterday I 1 shot a gaurdian
staff marks are trap like
you can see them but its hard to tell what they are
If you think the staff marks as traps i’d say don’t change
Question where do people expect to get most of their healing from the blood magic trait line Vampiric Or the Grandmaster trait
I think vampiric maybe can use a small buff
What need to be changed is the grandmaster
if you look at the number drarnor posted
locust swarm easily steal enough life to equal two wells
vampiric is doing far more healing than our grandmaster
i suggest a change to vampiric rituals
also keep in mind that most people in actual combat move out of wells
when you use locust swarm you can follow some1 and get every hit with locust swarm
Feast of Corruption
Apply 1 stack of bleed (8s) onto the target and gain Life Force (5%) for each unique condition the target is suffering from.
vulnerability, weakness, torment, immobilize or blind would be best i think
snip
the 6-0 skills are your healing skill, utilities skills and your elite skill
snip
I use both spectral walk and spectral armour
ghastly claw does continue to hit even if the first hit misses to my knowledge
signet of vampirism is really weak also it doesn’t work in death shroud
it provides less healing per second in most cases
removing weakness can increase your damage more then the signet
just a tip for roaming as a necro your gonna die from zergs or just being outnumber just get use to it.
then learn how to avoid the zerg so you never see them
also since it sounds like you want mobility id suggest taking wurm
and also try out this build sometime http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fRAQNAodGjc0WejxN83m4Wok6HgOAGgXg65INiWA-TVCEABEcEASU9ntUCawhAgJlf5s/Qb6DA4EA8wDAgUAPNsC-w
if you want permaswift just take a warhorn or put some more points into death magic
The perfect buff
Feast of Corruption
to receive regen while in death shroud or not to is a very delicate topic and also often gets bundled into receiving full in death shroud. Please note for this topic it is just regen
-Regen is most effective when it is always active
-other ally healing can be coordinated
this buff will affect all necromancer, the potency will be determined by builds and allies builds
-the standard necromancer builds will likely see little improvement
-the Minion master will likely see the largest improvement
- you might see some new effective builds
- these new builds will always do less effective than another class because other classes bring superior team support
Competitive small group fights is where this change will likely have the largest impact because 1 the fights last longer and two you can have an effective support party member
since the largest impact of this change would most likely be in the group fight scenario we should check to see if this is balanced
well i cant do that right now but i was thinking of watching the gw2WTS Boston – Grand final to try and get some numbers we can play with
the main reason regen should effect through death shroud is that it is bad game design
currently one main way to support in the game is by providing regeneration.
example
if you have player one trying to support his party by providing a strong regeneration boon, player one has the potential to be100% effective as long as he doesn’t party up with a necromancer
(edited by Tadsoul.6951)
1. Finishers
problem
we lack finisher, they are limited to staff and minion.
solution
Finisher on death shroud and other weapon would be helpful
2. Death Shroud UI*
Problem
We Don’t see our 6-0 skills while in death shroud
We Don’t see the condition damage we take in death shroud
Solution
let us see our 6-0 skills while in death shroud
let us see the condition damage we take in death shroud
3. Mark UI
problem
when marks are place on the ground they all look similar
solution
change the colour of the marks
ie MoB = red
Chillbains = blue
4. Healing*
problem
We don’t recieve healing from regen in death and other heals
solution
allow regen to effect necromancers in death shroud
Clarify that necromancer don’t recieve healing in death shroud for new players
*= more on these discussed below
not be able to view 6-0 skill in death shroud may be intended as a skill ceiling
the skillful know how to keep track of their cooldown
the unskillful guess when their cooldown are finish
(edited by Tadsoul.6951)
yup happen to my guild to had 1 more day to finish politics level 5 that is a whole week worth of time wasted
i want the upgrade to be finished not have a week worth of time wasted
this costed my guild a week of time because our politics level 5 got stuck and it was like 1 or less day away from finishing
Im hoping anet can give us the politics level 5 upgrade instead of having to waste a whole week
Let me put it this way: Not getting Death’s Embrace is the same as saying that you will never get downed. You’re making a statement, that you will never die as a Necro and therefore you don’t need that trait.
If someone can honestly say that to themselves with a straight face, then don’t take Death’s Embrace. Otherwise, this trait will outshine any other option in usefulness. It is an incredibly powerful, tide-turning trait that gives you the potential to do things that you normally wouldn’t be able to (example: winning difficult 1v2s, punishing teams for focus-firing you, etc).
i think you may be overstating its power. Don’t get me wrong though you can sometime kill theives before they can stomp you if you get your life leech on them before they go invisible
however you can start stomping and even attack a person long before they have the option to fight back making so you cant even attack a theif or have enough time to kill a person. If they have quickness it can even be hard to interrupt the stomp in time with the necro interrupt
in short i think its a good risk vs reward trait due to the vulnerability of the downstate
i agree I would place the wurm purely for the purpose as a turret and sometime it would be place in a position that i need to move to before activating the port (tower example is good)
not sure if anet would consider trick jumping as unintended use but as far as i know anet didn’t fix anything with the change to the wurm
ive used deaths embrace over reapers might as a power necro even before the patch
i found it make my necro just as deadly on the ground as when standing (just susceptible to stomps)
the video up above is a perfect example
I hope they dont nerf the combination of increased damage when down as other proffesion can abuse their stuff to
example thief with panic strike so its even harder to stomp them
its not condition manipulation just condition transfer i think the revenant get actually condition manipulation
i would say that the old stability on lich was more reliable but new stability will be you cant completely counter with 1 skill
it must suck to have ele’s tornado
lich has range
tornado doesnt have range
both only get 1 stab every 3 second
side note can you even interrupt the tornado?
havent fully tested it but this patch seems like a nerf to wurm
for instance you cant put the wurm up on the walls of towers and keep in wvw
however if you succeed in placing your wurm and it’s in a spot where the teleport can’t work the skill will still activate
they did mention it in the patch notes
General
Stability: This boon has been changed from a duration stack type to an intensity stack type. Crowd-control effects will remove one instance of stability apiece each time they are applied. Each ability and trait has been adjusted to apply a certain number of stacks. All instances of stability not listed in these release notes will remain at one stack.
I agree this skill is even worst now
rampager and rampage as one for sure got a buff as its still hard to interupt but now corrupting their stability is useless as for lich situational nerf i think it more of a nerf then buff
so plague get 3 stack of stability every 3 seconds but lich doesnt
I was disapointed when the new 3pt(15pt old) minor trait was revealed a complete uselesness again even after a rework, while it couldve just been a copypaste of this trait since its prety universaly useful and would be fine to get as a free minor.
I think its normal in PVE and its normaly subpar in PVP.
For it to worth taking,
-it would need to be 2x condies removed to maybe push the DS flasher style
-or it needs to be pulsing. 1x condi every 3s – sidenote to all condispam haterz: this is removing condies from fight so might actualy get hit with less transfers.-Or maybe make it JUST “immobilize + 1x condi” since apparently immobilize stacking idea was a huge succes and a keeper.
i think speed of shadow trait in soul reaping would be a better placement for that
*remove and become immune to immobilize while in death shroud but that might be to strong
I also think that the passive is interesting, but badly implemented. You’re not helping your teammates by pulling 1 condi every 10" randomly. Especially when it seems to prioritise cripple, of all things. (it would be good to test this somehow, maybe have an engi or a necro with SoS unload on someone with no passive cleanses while the necro is standing around) If you’re cleansing your allies it has to be timed and deliberate if it’s going to help them.
So I’m thinking either completely redesign the active (to +10% condi duration or maybe “gain life force for each condition on your target”?), or change the current active to be more deliberate. How do you do that on a PASSIVE ability though? It’s almost like a contradiction in terms!
Well, the only thing I can think of is, maybe have it just transfer one condition, and remove the ICD. Like, not just 1 of any condition: 1 specific condition. And I think the only thing that could be that would be actually useful and also thematically appropriate with the signet is POISON. Think about it: it’s not a lot of damage, so it won’t kill the necro like transferring 25 bleeds (or, even worse, an immobilise) would, but it still helps teammates tremendously because it’s not really about the damage, but about the healing reduction.
Perhaps, if you’re gonna reduce or completely remove the ICD, its range has to be reduced too: so maybe make the passive “Whenever an ally within 600 suffers poison, that poison is transferred to you.” So a buff in removing the ICD, but a nerf in range and in the fact that pre-existing conditions don’t get transferred.I still think the active needs a buff too though. As a stunbreak it’s pretty terrible, because condition lockdown usually involves immobilise, which restricts your field of view. A stunbreak needs to do more than just break stun, it neesd to get you out of trouble, or allow you to cast other skills that get you out of trouble. This doesn’t teleport you, it doesn’t give you life force, it doesn’t give you stability or protection: the “getting you out of trouble part” is supposed to be handled by the transfer: loading up the enemy with condis so they can’t hurt you, and you turn the tables on them. I mean, I know it’s still niche, cause it does nothing against Sleight of Hand thieves who daze you without putting any other conditions on you, but it’s flavoursome and fun when it works, and would be a great counter to condi burst. But if your transfer is restricted by field of view WHILE YOU’RE DISABLED then it’s completely useless! Immobilise, fear, stun, and knockdown all restrict your FOV, so you can’t cast it in the fraction of a seccond where you NEED to cast it before the rest of the damage burst is delivered.
Needs to be changed to either closest enemy, or your target but unrestricted by fov – and imo also made unblockable.
I could actually see this being useful +1
The Trait is mediocore I would have to say. I take the trait in my power build but in my condi build i take staff mastery. I agree with lordrosicky that you can’t balance this trait on a 10 or 7 second cooldown.
Well on a condi spec the icd being 10s is irrelevent. You cant go into ds on a condi spec every 10s just to get this benefit and then flash out straight away because then you are super vulnerable. And you should know to only go into ds every 15 s or so on a condi build anyway when doom and dark path are off cooldown.
Then you spend a few seconds at least in death shourd.
So this trait basically reads remove 1 condi every 20 seconds IF you have life force.
If anet is willing to buff this trait to make it more desirable and add more synergy to it with its trait line i’d suggest to convert one condition into a boon when entering death shroud
you always leave Death Shroud with more health than you went in.
Here are things I think we can all agree on:
1. self-traited healing needs to work through death shroud. This is to prevent conflicting mechanics, one of which is core to the profession.
2. Party UI needs to indicate that a Necro is in Death Shroud to prevent wasted panic heals. Even if a Necro could be healed while in death shroud, if the UI shows a Necro (who is actually in death shroud) is low on health, people will try to heal him, even if he’s actually full health.
3. Some cast times are too long for their effect, making the Necro more susceptible to CC than they really should be.
Can we all agree on those three points?
first point not a big issue but coming out of death shroud (if i’m not mistaken) procs confusion so you can come out of death shroud with less hp
I agree with the 3 point however
the regeneration boon (all sources)
our heal skills (healing from blood fiend, SoV, WoB pulses)
need to work in death shroud too
a regen banner warrior running dungeons only really doesn’t like to see necromancer which i think falls short of the guild wars 2 vision
shatter mesmer or lockdown mesmer i’m not sure of the difference
I find when fighting them it comes in 3 stages
one the mesmer doesnt know what he’s doing and just dies
two mesmer know what he is doing but lets mistakes happen which usually ends his life
three mesmer kills me while im cc’d the whole time
alternate three
condi mesmer kites me while clones do all the work
i play a zerk necro more of the time it comes down who ganks who (in spvp)
my strategy is to dodge his clones and phantasm skills
havent had enough recent experience with other builds
i personally like the mobility utilities because it can save you in a group also good for my group
utilities skill that are brought will depend on the preferred weapons of the necro and what group utility the necro is bringing
my rule is to bring at least one of these staff, offhand dagger or condition cleanse utility
I imagine that there will be 3 different types of specialization that you will get to choose from
dps
support
crowd control
their 3 main roles your suppose to see in gw2
that specialization i imagine affect what four new utility skills are, an elite, alternate weapon and heal skill, with maybe new class mechaninc
quick guess at what the specializations are
lich necro : new mechanic controlling your minions, mace (support)
ritualist necro : current death shroud, greatsword (dps)
cataclysm necro : new mechanic usuable abilities from life force, bow (crowd ccontrol)
Whoever call out the greatsword possibility with the teaser with majory in it good job!
Now I imagine that there will be 3 different types of specialization that you will get to choose from
dps
support
crowd control
their 3 main roles your suppose to see in gw2
that specialization i imagine affect what four new utility skills are, an elite, alternate weapon and heal skill, with maybe new class mechaninc
quick guess at what the specializations are
lich necro : new mechanic controlling your minions, mace (support)
ritualist necro : current death shroud, greatsword (dps)
cataclysm necro : new mechanic usuable abilities from life force, bow (crowd ccontrol)
Highly, highly doubt a new profession is coming. Everything else? Very possible.
I really hope they don’t do a new profession. They have such strong tendencies to make anything new very weak, so it’s hard to picture a new profession not being imbalanced. Plus, they have so many play styles that could be made relevant instead of focusing on adding a whole other class.
i agree
signet of vamparism
nothing else to say on that topic
if HoT is an expansion i hope they do add some knew weapons to the classes.
I would hope for Mace over Greatsword because Maces are
a more supportive weapon
less used
now if the greatsword did what i want the mace to do id be fine with that as the second reason doesn’t matter to much to me however id say let the deciding factor be lore
immobilize isnt a issue?
that condition i hate most mainly because you cant dodge and if they spam stuns well then all you can do is just take it all
played a match just now i found them annoying when i didnt position properly
(edited by Tadsoul.6951)
what class do you feel like you roam best with when playing your necro
keep the groups 5 or smaller
my best partner is a zerk theif
just have him open up on some then
hit them with a triple proc (air, fire, chill of death) life blast with the staff equip
not many live through that
then the theif effectively support by providing stealth
when moving up to four man group i like to have a warrior, elementalist with my thief
the theif is brought for the same reasons
the ele and the warrior both are very tanky and provide lots of cc
Both instants im a power necro
i would consider using them if they made a trait that caused your bone minions to ride your life blast and suicide on the target
the extra burst damage would be lethal with all the other procs you can put in an attack now
if your facing a theif that likes to spam his blinds on you (d/p) use your channel skill like life siphon or ghastly claws vs this type of theif. this theif will like to stealth a lot using his blind fields if you can save death shroud to interrupt his ability to go into stealth. interrupting the heal that gives stealth is always good
Just curious but are all of you necros losing more than 50% of your 1v1, 2v2s, and 3v3s your coming across?
If you aren’t specced as a bunker you shouldn’t be able to “survive” outnumbered fights and almost no necro specs as a bunker.
I win most of my 1v1, 2v2 and 3v3
no1 should be able to survive outnumber just get away however given player skill difference that isn’t always true.What class can use a zerk amulet and survive outnumbered fights for longer than a necro? How can one be Glassier than a necro ever be?
The two classes that come to mind are mesmer and theif, but I’m not sure running away counts as lasting.
guardian, warrior, mesmer, theif in outnumbered fights even while not running away
Ok so you win most of your fights, but you agree with everyone else that we are missing healing. K.
Guard is glassier cmon man. Theives and mesmers can’t sit on a point and in the current meta will die to aoe unless they run away and we aren’t counting that right?
Warrior…. ok here’s the thing I really don’t have much experience playing one. I’ve dabbled a bit but I hated the way I felt on a warrior. BUT I know my experiences against them and I know it’s not very common to see a zerk warrior but as soon as that zerk warriors stances are done he’s ded. And I doubt zerk warriors would be running shouts.
i win most of my fight because i play with better people its a matter of skill not healing in that case
zerker necromancers cant stand on point for long either in fact its almost suicide because you probably ruining your positioning unlike the other class can do their burst quicker then get out of there
in fact zerker warrior is best at standing on point then because he can easily live for 7 seconds then get out
for the record its easy to kill a zerk necro in under 3 seconds if they dont have a set up defense
Just curious but are all of you necros losing more than 50% of your 1v1, 2v2s, and 3v3s your coming across?
If you aren’t specced as a bunker you shouldn’t be able to “survive” outnumbered fights and almost no necro specs as a bunker.
I win most of my 1v1, 2v2 and 3v3
no1 should be able to survive outnumber just get away however given player skill difference that isn’t always true.
What class can use a zerk amulet and survive outnumbered fights for longer than a necro? How can one be Glassier than a necro ever be?
The two classes that come to mind are mesmer and theif, but I’m not sure running away counts as lasting.
guardian, warrior, mesmer, theif in outnumbered fights even while not running away
skill #1 might help the scepters lack of death shroud generation
skill #2 slight nerf in pve buff in pvp
The skill one could really help but i feel necromancer could use torment somewhere else like lifeblast maybe
at the moment moving the grandmaster traits around wouldn’t do much (except for unholy martyr and unholy sanctuary) because build have already been developed with the current placement
here are some of my ideas
scepter skill 3 I feel would be better useful as Feast
uholy martyr would be better off getting remove a condition every 3 second from allies in the area
i have been trying to get feedback on these trait ideas they would be blood grandmaster traits
strip enchantment
steal health when you remove or corrupt an enchantment
damage 650
healing 650
examples
you use corrupt boon and turn 5 boons into condition you will also steal 650*5 health from the target
you use spinal shivers and remove 1 boon you steal 650 health
blood ritual 15second cooldown
steal health after you cast a well
damage 200
healing 200
duration 5 seconds
examples you cast a well then hit your target with ghastly claws and life siphon
total of 17 hits made 17*200 life stolen
+1 for swarming plague
5. choking gas- Aoe stun 1.5 seconds one use
I would say there are 3 levels of healing they need to decided to allow healing in death shroud
1 regen
2 self healing
3 allies healing
all these have different reasons why they should be in the game and not be in the game. Anet doesn’t need to allow all this healing for the necromancer but they need to address the problems these problems create in someway.
possible ways they could fix these problems
better ui
redesign
allow the healing
These two traits would be blood grandmaster trait they would replace fetid consumption the other one with the same name
strip enchantment
steal health when you remove or corrupt an enchantment
damage 650
healing 650
examples
you use corrupt boon and turn 5 boons into condition you will also steal 650*5 health from the target
you use spinal shivers and remove 1 boon you steal 650 health
blood ritual 15second cooldown
steal health after you cast a well
damage 200
healing 200
duration 5 seconds
notes for 5 seconds after you cast your well each hit you land will siphon 200 health
examples
you cast your well and in the next 5 seconds you manage to hit your target with life siphon and ghastly claw you steal 200*17 health
let me know what you think of these trait ideas
or if you need any clarification on them
also fetid consumption to my knowledge is unused so if you use fetid consumption let me know
the topic is necromancers having regen becomes pure liability in death shroud
a Necromancer in Death Shroud is literally receiving no benefit from the boon.
being punish wouldn’t be a issue if we could benefit from it
comparing death shroud to distortion is just sad
aside from some a couple of skills death shroud and condition cleanses is all the defense of the necromancer
so stop comparing at least half the defensive option a necromancer has to one skill a mesmer has
in the case of blood magic sustain i think part of the issue there is it is alway active if it wasnt alway active they could make blood magic sustain work probably
shrouded removal cleanses once condition when entering death shroud (there is no limit on the condition it cleanses)
the bug
In World vs World vs World there are allies you can get or the enemies that are called ogres
the ogre hunter npc applies weakness when he throw a rock at you (autoattack i think)
shrouded removal doesn’t remove this weakness consistantly
other condition cleanses remove the weakness applied from the ogre hunter
shrouded removal remove other sources of weakness
If it isnt clear what I posted plz respond and i will try to fix that for you
in my opinion and when i take the staff over axe is when i want the fear and condi cleanse
axe has really bad rep because its our weakest weapon still (haven’t tested number) but it isnt that bad