Guild Wars 2

a single cry of frustration applies 8 confusion stacks of 6 seconds each and 4 torment stacks of 12 seconds each.
Every other shatter applies 4 confusion and 4 torment, same duration as mentioned above.
if your using scepter/pistol, right now with the bugged trait, bleeding isn’t as good as torment and confusion. if you connect your illusionary counter, that’s 16 seconds of 5 stacks of torment with 100% torment duration and confusing images has a 14 second confusion, combine it with your scepter auto attack to give 4-5 stacks of torment, your interrupts add confusion. Without master fencer active your crit chance in sinister or rabid gear doesn’t exceed 50-52%. the only way you bleed now is on your critical hits.
Now here’s the iduelist attack frequency https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Phantasmal_Haste
You have 6 seconds of empty time between each attack if phantasmal haste is traited, also each iduelist attack cannot add more than 8 bleeds, considering the iduelist crits on all the 8 attacks, that gets us to 3 duelists alive adding 24 bleeds of 9 seconds each, if all the hits are criticals.

Consider that you start the fight in staff, with chaos storm, phase retreat and warlock, switch to scepter/pistol and summon an iduelist.. lets say, you use signet of ether to refresh phantasms and summon another iduelist.. you cant have 3 iduelists active due to scepter auto attack untill u switch back to staff.
Second option is to start the fight in scepter/pistol with iduelist, signet of ether and another iduelist, switch to staff, chaos storm, warlock.. auto attack.. u still dont have 3 iduelists
Third option is to start the fight in scepter/pistol and stay in scepter/pistol for the entirety of the fight.. which means your bleed application is really restricted to only your iduelist hits and due to scepter auto attack you cant maintain 3 iduelists.
Fourth option is to start the fight in sword/pistol and stay in the weapon set for the entirety of the fight.. which is similar to the above mentioned scenario but you can sustain 3 iduelists but you cant apply any other conditions

Also, i had krait runes before i switched to tormenting, i dont think you can maintain 40 stacks of bleeding :-( maintaining 30-35 itself is really difficult.. takes time to summon 3 iduelists and keep them running while you switch to staff.
I’m not counting that your iduelists may die sometimes or during thier attack, get stunned, knockedback, dazed etc..

Imho, if you wanna bleed the target, the old staff build with it’s clones is the best using winds of chaos. the build was from frifox or fay i think, dont remember too well.

what silverkey mentioned is right regarding the last paragraph, but yeah staff + scepter/pistol is viable.. which has it’s advantages and disadvantages..

1. Lower dps compared to mantra power build (except places where illusions die repeatedly)
2. Relatively more fun to play.. also tankier than power builds
3. Possible shenanigans in plenty with interrupts
4. Lots of small different numbers popping out of the targets
5. Most of the time, cant enter “meta zerk only” groups for dungeons
6. In aoe situations with interruptable mobs, there are certainly ways to pull far ahead of power dps with interrupts (chaos storm + magic bullet) and making sure confusing images hits nearly all targets depending on your positioning.
7. No way to sustain dps on single target without good interrupts and continuous shatters
8. Shatters are a must, the difference between each pistol phantasm attack is 6 seconds which is huge

poor guy, i’m pretty sure he linked the wrong url. but since he mentioned silverwastes and dungeons, pretty sure he’s expecting a pve, though a pvp perspective doesn’t hurt either :-)

the build you linked doesn’t have any traits put in the inspiration line. and prismatic understanding’s been selected. something’s wrong with the link i guess or it’s just me?

your right on those points photo, mistrust comes at a later level, more importantly even on a single target, that’s 5 small damage ticks along with small conditions.. phase retreat out of chaos storm for chaos armor which puts in more pressure. Chaos storm’s a skill to use whenever it’s ready. it just offers more dps, you only lose out on 1 auto attack in it’s casting time :-)

i like getting hit when i’v got chaos armor :P

chaos storm is really powerful in a condition build.. poison, confusion, dazes which inflict confusion if the target/targets are interrupted and chaos armor when you phase retreat out of chaos storm which inflicts confusion again :P

mantra of pain to tag is a good idea, also, go close to the mob and shatter without illusions, applies torment to everyone around.

for condition builds with only staff, you’ll deal a lot of bleeding, poison through chaos storm and small amount of burning from auto attack. trait lines to choose are dueling, illusions and chaos.

For pve only, if you like to shatter a lot.. this is a fun build i made a thread about recently which uses the weapons your currently using https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/mesmer/12k-confusion-Video-added/first#post5253408

The power builds in pve are usually phantasm upkeep builds.

WvW is along the lines of prismatic understanding

Curunen.8729:

Compare CoF to Mindwrack in a power build.

How about a 2 illusion power mindwrack compared to a 2 illusion condition CoF. It’s not like it’s always possible to get a 4 illusion shatter off…

Double the cooldown for absolutely no reason, does pathetic condi stacks and damage in a condition build compared to the insane damage of mind wrack in a power build.

Hell, compare CoF to Mindwrack in a condition build. It’s funny that the only thing CoF has over Mindwrack in a condition build is 1 measly stack of confusion per illusion – all that for double the cooldown, when it should be the go to “condition burst” shatter button.

I think the best remedy to the MtD nerf without making condition shatter too powerful (as it could have been with 2 stacks) is buffing CoF to one base stack of torment per illusion for 4-6 seconds and shaving the cooldown.

It would have minimal impact in power builds (the conditions would have negligable impact), but be excellent for condition or hybrid shatter builds.

probably for now, cof with another confusion or torment seems like a good choice, but considering balance patches every 2 weeks screams pre heart of thorns balance. chaotic dampening cd nerf, chill nerf yesterday etc..

i’m pretty sure they’re looking at alacrity with our present cooldowns.

Also, in condition builds, every shatter applies confusion + torment compared to power builds which probably might apply confusion if illusions trait line is chosen which deals peanut damage.

With mtd and illusionary retribution, cry of frustration applies 4 stacks of torment and 8 stacks of confusion + also deal a small amount of direct damage. i think it’s perfectly fine as it is imo

mtd is a little weak yes, but cof seems alright to me

nothing’s too concrete atm, but there are a lot of posts going around. pick and choose what you like :-) since anet mentioned about balancing every 2 weeks, depending on the changes, we might have more builds popping up.

Assuming you like greatsword and would like to use it in pve group content specifically dungeons, as sanderinoa mentioned.. harmonious mantras is better since your zerker geared, mistrust gives you negligible damage.. also the fact that you dont have any interrupts except diversion(your phantasm built, you dont want to shatter your phantasm for diversion) + greatsword pushback(you want them together so you can cleave, not push them away).

another great point sanderinoa brought up is the greatsword auto attack is based on distance, and for the most part you want to be close to get the might stacks through the fight considering your running signet of inspiration.

You can also try illusionary inspiration and have your signet of inspiration utility slot equipped with another lets say mantra of pain for example to have a 8-12% dmg increase immediately once you enter a fight.

Added a bunch of random video records with the build including a dungeon and menders are needed to reach 30-40+ confusion stacks.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WM7rxCW5hwQ

edited main post as well

yeah as esplen mentioned, duelist discipline is for the cd reduction, which is very strong, if you interrupt 4 creeps by any means, your pistol skills have 0 cd

untrue :P the mordrem that charges ahead knocking everyone, interrupt it when it’s alone and charging.. do it immediately after it starts charging and watch your boons explode. i’ll do a few more videos later

Changed armor :-)

i love the new trait system :-)

previously, mesmers had to sacrifice a few traits, out of which some have become baseline now. didn’t get you regarding the added effects to the utility skills?

the confusion when you enter glamour trait has been removed, but in the old trait system, that was the only glamour trait that changed the way glamours worked i guess? cause everything else was generic, reduce cooldown, glamours last 2 seconds longer etc.

samething with mantras, the mantra trait now is way way better than splitting it into master and grandmaster, and having to take 2 traits to get my mantras better. also toughness which channeling mantras is baseline.

also, because the stats are no longer bound to traits, ur mistaken here.. there are “more customization” options available. while there are fewer traits now, most of them have become baseline or have been merged with other related traits and you also get +2 additional choosable traits compared to the older one.

honestly, the old system was meh.. people choosing an adept trait in grandmaster meaning, there’s something wrong with the choice there :P

illusionary persona is baseline, no traits needed anymore

the increased condition duration and increased boon duration is dependent upon the amount of boons you have on you when they are applied.

for example, if you have 3 boons on you, the conditions you apply last 9% longer. If you lose a boon after you apply a condition, the duration on the condition you’ve already applied doesn’t change but, the next condition you apply lasts only 6% longer since you lost a boon.

oh i see, that’s a shame pve interrupt playstyle would be really good, mesmer would be vouched for a reason other than reflects.

Master of fragmentation instead of malicious sorcery gives you more interrupt in clumped enemies, if you have illusions well and good, if not.. you can just go close and diversion, that’s 5 enemies dazed, in which u’ll have a few interrupts depending on your timing

diversion shatter without illusions inflict, confusion, torment and hopefully interrupt a couple which leads to more confusion and might and a few boons, also not to forget regarding the amount of boons on you, increasing condition duration and boon duration subsequently.

Once the defiance changes come along, where bosses can be interruptable, as anet mentioned, mesmer’s gonna become a harder class to play with rich benefits which is exactly like gw1 mesmer. feels itchy to play HOT with chronomancer

All the confusion damage that you see in the pics above is within 1-2 seconds… there’s no time to use iwarden in an ethereal field :P

it’s all interrupts, chaos storm + magic bullet = mistrust procs all around + 25 stacks of might due to interrupts

while dire does net more condition damage we need bleeding as well so we need precision. it a good 25+ stack easy

ooh, i’m sorry.. it still works the same way

tested, doesn’t prevent 3 phantasms, doesn’t destroy phantasm destroys a clone though

My present build

http://intothemists.com/calc/?build=-R;4VPk51U7oWV71;9;4TUW;0247156058;41_W810;0dbTudbTuX0kILZxP;0hQQ293949596979451Wk791;4V05N7-51;9;9;9;9;0k0;3V6s5w

2022 + 250(sigil) +150(compounding power)

Anything interruptable dies very quickly since interruped targets apply aoe confusion(i think mistrust confusion stacks with more targets in an area close to each other) + grant you 5 stacks of might with each interrupt, and you tend do do good on dungeon bosses as well with about 3-5k bleeding, 2-4k torment, 2-4k confusion, a little bit of poison and burning, not counting the 5k+ pistol phantasm + auto attack etc etc

You are quite tanky in the build with a lot of protection due to chaos armor + scepter block + interrupts with magic bullet, chaos storm + diversion

Shatters are a must! 10 second + torment on each illusion shattered is a lot!!

Mistrust is tooo goood! do not change it to deceptive evasion :P

Sinister geared, rabid would give you more damage with chaotic transference

The build i’m on doesn’t have chaotic transference, but does have chaotic interruption

Timing is all you need at interrupts :-)

Magic Bullet!!!!!

http://imgur.com/6SU4KEh
http://imgur.com/jLvVjSQ

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vy2Qdl4mAgQ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k9fF_LCYhbM

The above videos are unedited.

Random playthrough - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WM7rxCW5hwQ

Dungeon gameplay (random pug, not a speedrun) from 4:15 onwards or https://youtu.be/WM7rxCW5hwQ?t=252

most of the fights are without 25 stacks of condition damage sigil and food and utility buffs.

for most part you can notice the conditions and your buffs.. also note the fact that you are tankier than power builds in general due to the fact that you gain boons very quickly

Torment dooms the condition mesmer! omg.. we’r all doomed! though i dont wanna use the words “learn to play” but something this community is direly in need of with this kind of a post. What an engineer has or other classes have is inconsequential to what we have or what the nerf is about.

If Anet hadn’t revealed any of the traits pre-patch and the patch dropped on us.. this kind of post wouldn’t have surfaced.

Work around the problem like the mesmer community has always done :-)

true, at long range staff loses out, but if your long range, u’d rather be berserker or assassins. i’m trying hard to notice how sinister armor with greatsword and domination would work well

A hybrid i’m guessing means physical + condition damage.

In that case u need ways to apply condition damage. duelist works with condition not just because of multihits and on crit trait, but also the trait which bleeds 33% of the time on any pistol attacks. Berserker only applies conditions if it crits.

There’s no reason to run sinister, if u dont want a staff as a weapon for the above given reasons, u cant inflict conditions with a greatsword. Warlock is the most powerful phantasm that we have considering the target has as many conditions as possible, it gets a 10% damage increase for each condition on a target. The power and precision from sinister help in warlock’s dps.

greatsword and domination are really bad for conditions imo. 12.5% to condition damage, sure but how are you applying conditions with a greatsword in the first place, and u’d rather be berserker to get the full use of 12.5% physical damage boost.

which shouldn’t happen in the first place? :P

I’m guessing confusing images on scepter hits everyone in a line? so, with 50% cast time reduction and +1 tick, it’s not bad, not as good as a sword by any means for trash. % damage increase doesn’t affect conditions, so force sigil aint great

yeah true, i’v noticed it as well.. regarding mind stab. after the animation is pretty much done, you cant evade for some reason for a little while. feels clunky

i’m guessing the mantra charges cannot be mimic’ked. but the mantra itself might be mimic’ked, meaning, you need to cast the mantra again on the mantra slot after the charges are done

we adjust with what we’ve got unlike other classes! :P

Mimic copied the last used enemy skill :-)

Oh… the plays we can as a mesmer!!!

with choice of runes and nourishment which gives more condition duration and more conditions on an enemy (be it krait, perplexity etc) and assuming 50% cd reduction of staff, that’s 17 second chaos storm + about 7-8 second cooldown on phantasmal warlock. i dont think it’s a dps loss by any means, be it early into the fight or an extended one

with no rabid gear, ur phantasms have higher base damage, so meaning, phantasmal warlock has higher base damage which increases 10% per condition. so does pistol.

while the gap of 200-300 condition damage is closed by the ways mentioned above, it also promotes active gameplay with more skill usage.

Just the condition damage stat check without added sigil bonus and all exotic armor and weapons (only ascended accessories)

http://intothemists.com/calc/?build=-R;4VPk51973VV71;9;4TUW;0247146048;41KW810;0bUytbUytj-FqcAZ7;0hQQ3V7WD1IYN3T_0-WCk1e;5V05N7-5N;9;9;9;9;87-7U

The above link is full rabid with chaotic transference without undead runes and without tuning crystal at 1932 condition damage

http://intothemists.com/calc/?build=-R;4VPk51973VV71;9;4TUW;0247146048;41KW810;0NX8aNX8aj-FqcAZ7;0hQQ3V7WD1IYN3T_0-WCk1e;5V05N7-5N;9;9;9;9;87-7O

The above link is full rabid with chaotic transference and undead runes (7% toughness to condition damage) without tuning crystal at 2039 condition damage

http://intothemists.com/calc/?build=-R;4VPk51973VV71;9;4TUW;0247146048;41KW810;0NX8aNX8aj-FqcAZ7;0hQQ3V7WD1IYN3T_0-WCk1e;5V05N7-5N;9;9;9;9;87s5y

The above link is full rabid with undead runes and tuning crystal at 2092 condition damage

http://intothemists.com/calc/?build=-R;4VPk51973VV71;9;4TUW;0247156048;41KW810;0bUytbUytX0kILZxP;0hQQ293949596979451Wk791;4V05N7-51;9;9;9;9;0k0;47-7I

The above link is full sinister with chaotic dampening at 1749 condition damage

Conclusion -
Around 200 condition damage increase without undead runes using chaotic transference. More survival due to high toughness. Low base damage on shatters and phantasmal warlock (correct me if i’m wrong on this) and Choice of runes and nourishment

Around 300 condition damage increase with undead runes using chaotic transference. More survival due to high toughness. Low base damage on shatters, duelist and phantasmal warlock (correct me if i’m wrong on this). Choice on nourishment

Around 350 condition damage increase with chaotic transference and undead runes using tuning crystal. Low base damage on shatters, duelist and phantasmal warlock (correct me if i’m wrong on this)

Lower condition damage without undead runes and without chaotic transference but not to forget the fact that with application of chaos armor, all staff skills reduced by 40-50%, also gives protection for 5 seconds on every chaos armor application on self. Choice of runes and nourishment

both the weapon sets need to be rotated quickly, cause the cooldowns are quite low, assuming we’v used chaos armor twice in staff

no no, i see it as a debate, not a fight by any means :-)

with the changes to defiance, interrupts, dazes and stuns work on bosses in HOT, so you get the bonuses out of them after the defiance change goes live

mantra of pain alone gives u 12% damage boost with 3 charges, used one after the other and since it can be used while you’re attacking or casting skills, it’s quite cool, not to mention the fact that u might use other mantras while fighting

so, you mean, sacrifice half the trait line for a hybrid sword build u want conditions in? rather than go staff and scepter and get way more damage off conditions?

8 bleeds in 8 hits on a duelist is 100% crit chance with just sharper images which is false. A good party should also always be able to maintain 25 stacks of vulnerability without sword auto attacks, but that’s a different equation. the condition damage ticks are listed below.

The values below show damage of each tick of condition at 1800 condition damage at level 80

Intensity stack = 1

Bleeding - 161 damage per tick

Burning - 410.5 damage per tick

Confusion (DoT) - 98 damage per tick
Confusion (Effect Trigger) - 162 damage per tick

Poison - 141.5 damage per tick

Torment (DoT) - 102.5 damage per tick
Torment (Effect Trigger) - 237 damage per tick

now to the main question, what sigils and runes would you go for in such a hybrid build?

lets say you’d go with condition sigils, then your damage is reduced even further on physical attacks and viceversa acts the same way.

Now, compare this build to the condition damage build i made earlier
http://intothemists.com/calc/?build=-R;4VPk51U73VV71;9;4TUW;0247156048;41KW810;0bUytbUytX0kILZxP;0hQQ293949596979451Wk791;4V05N7-51;9;9;9;9;0k0;47-7g

The build you mentioned applies conditions in this way -

Since this is a not a shatter build, i’m taking shattering out of equation

On a boss, domination trait line doesn’t put any vulnerability cause you cant miss out on empowered illusions by taking rendering shatter, so that only gives your and your illusion sword auto attacks that barely reach 8-10 stacks of vulnerability for most part.

Dueling trait line has pistol trait, sharper images with confusing combatants inflicting confusion

Illusions line doesn’t afflict any other conditions due to your weapon choice

So, we’r talking about vulnerability bleeding confusion and since u mentioned the only change to the build is adding a little condition damage traits without changing anything else, i’m guessing the weapon runes and sigils are going to be physical damage based.

Now, the build i linked, the ways to apply condition damage, while still dealing a decent amount of physical damage cause of sinister armor

Dueling trait line has pistol trait, sharper images with confusing combatants inflicting confusion

With perplexity (20%) + Master of misdirection (33%) + Chaotic Persistence (3% condition duration per boon on you) + Signet of Midnight (20% condition duration)
that’s 80% confusion duration increase atleast.

While bleeding is applied the same way as in your build, there are way way more conditions being applied with staff and scepter, poison, torment, burning, more more confusion

Gimme a lil while, i’ll come back to a little more into detail on the pure condition damage advantages, i’m on the move now :-)

@Silverkey

Here ya go, phantasm power build
http://intothemists.com/calc/?build=-R;4ZUk41K7BWV71;9;4STW;0158056046;9;9;0FvkD;0vs

proper dazes to interrupt give u quickness + damage on foe

if you want to go condition damage hybrid, i still think domination is a bad trait line

@silverkey

the hybrid sinister build u linked above, has mental anguish and phantasmal haste, those both dont go hand in hand. mental anguish supports shatter style play while phantasmal haste supports the phantasm to be alive for longer durations

also, if you’re going for a sinister armor, meaning, a lot more condition damage, sword hits which give ferocity make no difference to condition damage.

fragility is bad for condition damage, cause it’s a % damage increase which doesn’t affect conditions.

focus doesn’t help condition damage, u’d rather have a torch or staff equipped. burning’s the highest damaging condition, 400+ per tick at level 80 at 1800 condition damage with only 1 intensity

Mantra of Resolve - 20 second cooldown, 2 charges to cleanse i think 2 conditions from you and people around you

Nullfield - rips enemies boons and removes conditions off you and your allies

Phantasmal Disenchanter - Summon a phantasm that removes boons from foes and cures conditions on allies

Arcane Thievery - Send three conditions you have to your foe and steal three of their boons

the chronomancer passive 25% movespeed is coming, and signet of inspiration isn’t needed tbh.

it’s irritating when u put down a temportal curtain in front of u, when someone gives u swiftness at the same time, u basically wasted a skill for literally no use

similarly, a mesmer using temporal curtain for swiftness wouldn’t have it for the pull effect which can also be used as an interrupt. i dont think it changes compared to the elementalist, but 1 time swiftness buff for each player should be better or reduce the duration of temportal curtain, since it’s never really used after the first 2 seconds it’s casted. only use i can think of is, using it as a reflect which is alright cause you get mirror effect through a few traits now.

hai frifox :-)

in the condition build, i’m guessing the stats are gonna be rabid as i see under the staff weapon, if so, swordplay isn’t possible as the physical damage output will be non-existent. fencer’s finesse to evasive mirror. even with sinister armor, with the buffs to scepter, i think, it’s a must have over sword for condition builds.

in chaos, while chaotic transference gives a little more condition damage, chaotic dampening’s 5 seconds of protection when you activate chaos armor by any means, also reducing staff skill recharge by 5% per second is really nice, considering u can atleast gain chaos armor twice to 7-8 seconds atleast and when you switch to scepter and back, staff skills should be recharged.

deceptive evasion to mistrust, with scepter/pistol + staff, we’v got a few interrupts with shatter + chaos storm + magic bullet. considering the clone generation with the weapons, doubt we need a clone on dodge :P

also, i feel sinister is a better choice over toughness because of chaotic dampening giving us protection

Here’s an awesome change to the confusing images -

Confusing Images: Added one additional strike to this skill. Strikes from this skill now display an additive total rather than individual hits. This skill now activates 50% faster

That’s an extra tick of confusion i guess, hopefully it’s not just the extra tick of damage.

while torment deals more damage compared to confusion, problem is mesmers dont have a lot of torment applications except the block + trait on shatter 2 stacks of torment.

confusion as a mesmer lasts 33% longer + 20% from rune compared to 45% tormenting duration from rune

Another thing to notice is mesmers apply confusion all over the place with the new trait lines

Confusion applications
Pistol attacks through chaos fields (chaos storm, feedback etc) [Chaos fields]
You and your illusions crits apply confusion (No ICD) [On crit]
When you interrupt a foe, mistrust applies confusion (No ICD) [Interrupt]
When you interrupt a foe, perplexity runes apply confusion (15 second ICD) [Interrupt]
All shatter skills apply confusion [Shatter]
Cry of frustration applies confusion [Shatter]
Scepter confusing images applies confusion (9-10 second ICD)
Chaos armor applies confusion as well (No ICD)

Torment Applications
Scepter Illusionary Counter applies torment (8 second ICD) [need to block]
Heal applies torment with the rune (20 second ICD) [Around your character]
All shatters applies torment (No ICD) [Shatter]
Sigil applies torment (5 second ICD) [On crit]

We interrupt so often, with shatter + magic bullet + chaos storm
while we do have signet of domination as well and with the new mimic, it’s gonna be fun.. but keeping it out of the picture for now :-)