Guild Wars 2

Rolisteel.1375:

How you get balanced pvp only with removed class stacking but allowed class swapping? Why you think that class swap is so balanced? I never have seen things like that “class swap inside the ranked game” in any other successful MMORPG’s or esport games. Just join and play with what you have! What i win if a somewhat good thief swap to ele because he think it will be good. but he is terrible at it? What i win with him? Decreasing my chance to win. And a feeling like its a 3v5 or 4v5 game. At high ranked games it means a lot if people swap to class they cant play at high level. Or if you really want that class swap allow then but not in group with my high ranked and mastered main class if he don’t have same division and ratings with the swapped class. Thats called balance.

Ofc locking classes when they get inside the match is must when class stacking is removed.

Burn.5401:

By that logic, let’s also ban certain builds because they’re too strong. While we’re at it, let’s just decide exactly what every team and player should play so it can appear balanced on the esport screen.

No, you don’t get it. The base of unbalance comes from class stacking. 1 class of that op thing in a team is fine but if there is more than that 1 op it becomes broken. Broken comps are countered by other broken class stacking comp and the circle evolves until the optimal stacked comp is found.

We don’t have to decide what every player should play and what team should they have if we just remove the class stacking factor. Ppl will always anyway play the best build on that said class.

We get pvp balanced by removing class stacking and reducing the amount of teams to balance from 1287 to 126 and it won’t break wvw or pve.

Burn.5401:

The Ace.9105:

…and everytime the other team has stacked op classes it sucks.

And you wouldn’t face that problem if those classes/builds got properly balanced in the first place. Why are people not stacking p/p thief? Or longbow ranger? In before “OP specs are inevitable”! There were times before HoT and before the D/D meta where every class was viable and stacking wasn’t even needed. Seems like people forget easily.

Before d/d meta ele was basically trash tier in pvp. They tried to fix that and it was op. Then there was the godlike warrior hambow bs and then unkillable shoutbow, turret engi bs, spirit ranger ai bot… Ppl seems to forget easily yeah. Oh yeah btw these classes were also stacked like abjured double ele and orng double dps guard.

Let’s not also forget that tcg and china tried to play with 5 different classes in the last wts in cologne… Oh wait… They lost?!?

Like i said, balancing 126 team comps is way easier than balancing 1287 team comps. Nothing of these op specs weren’t super op alone. They were op because of the class stacking.

For example now in unranked facing only 1 necro is fine but when you face 2 or 3 it’s not fine. How do you counter that? By stacking classes yourself ofc and then you have better op comp and the power creep continues until the most optimal stacked comp is found.

Okay every winning esl team has used class stacking like double guard and double d/d ele. We can also solve this thing with math. The number of possible teams made without class stacking is 126 while the number of teams made with class stacking is 1287.

Good luck balancing this game to 3 different game modes at the same time while allowing class stacking to happen on the competitive gaming. The only way to get pvp balanced is to remove the stacking option and balance classes equally so that everything is worth to play.

What i have experienced lately is that when i have 5 different professions on my side and 5 different professions on enemy side the matches have been super fun and everytime the other team has stacked op classes it sucks. Even the old d/d ele wouldn’t have caused any problems if they would have prevented class stacking back then.

Also ppl let’s be honest. You say people want to play different roles on the same class but in reality that only happens in the low rank games and almost always ppl stack the best meta build or otherwise they are trash because some other class does the job way better (do you want to have bunker thief instead of druid in your team?). This is also why preventing class stacking would be a good thing.

I am also fine with the idea that class stacking is possible in unranked during ranked season for people who want to stack their classes and play pvp.

Archon.6480:

Ha, ha, this was true for me today! Reapers everywhere! I thought it was kind of fun, though. Good practice for a Druid…

Yeah the other team i had against me had 3 druids using search and rescue…

Later today when i played i had teams with 5 different professions and the games were super fun.

Varezenem.2813:

Problem with banning profession stacking is that professions with multiple builds that perform a different role wouldn’t be able to be used simultaneously.

That’s why you have to think carefully what you want to pick for that profession. Can’t have everything in 1 team.

Tomiyou.3790:

To be honest, if the enemy team stacked other professions rather than 3 currently most OP elite specs, stacking wouldn’t be a problem. Removing class stacking is a cheap, lazy and a bad way to try to balance things out.

Idk really. If they would have implemented this change ages ago even d/d cele ele wouldn’t have been a problem.

Removing class stacking makes this game way easier to balance and more fun to play. Facing 3 necros, druid and scrapper isn’t fun.

Still reaper is the only profession you can play like that.

I agree those builds are kinda op but herald loses reaper, dragon hunter can beat it and herald can beat dragon hunter, daredevil beats necro and herald in 1v1, druid loses to necro and scrapper doesn’t die to anything except maybe in some rare cases against 2v1.

Regon Phoenix.8215:

Yet another troll post about troll video where trolls make reaper look op.

Well, reaper kinda is pretty op atm.

After the 26th patch this build works at least 50% better. It uses razer naga and your forehead. You bind your skills to your razer naga in specific order explained on the video and press the keys with your forehead. You also have to check lock autotarget to maximum range and snap ground target to current target.

I am posting this as a guide for new necro players since it helps them to start with a necro and this build helps them survive better against better players.

You must have razer naga and heart of thorns for this build.

Enjoy!

After the 26th patch this build works at least 50% better. It uses razer naga and your forehead. You bind your skills to your razer naga in specific order explained on the video and press the keys with your forehead. You also have to check lock autotarget to maximum range and snap ground target to current target.

I am posting this as a guide for new necro players since it helps them to start with a necro and this build helps them survive better against better players.

You must have razer naga and heart of thorns for this build.

Enjoy!

What anet meant about singling out enemies was that rev is weaker in teamfights than against 1 target. Then what comes to trait changes, everybody who really plays revenant knows that vicious laceration is better than ferocious strikes so replace that rather than vicious. Sword 2 is now super good skill but it has some bugs and when those bugs are fixed it’s perfect. UA is fine as it is except that it still bugs with slow and needs to be fixed. In pvp it’s better to play with double stab on dodge so idk about the fury change either to nefarious momentum and in pve you have perma fury anyways.

So casting UA while having slow has rng chance to actually cast that skill. Sometimes it casts ua 3 seconds after the normal cast time and sometimes it just doesn’t do anything. Please fix this issue and make this skill ignore slow.

kdaddy.5431:

Saiyan.1704:

kdaddy.5431:

The Ace.9105:

You have to understand kdaddy that sometimes balancing just isn’t possible in a way that class stacking would be worse than bringing more variety and playing 5 different classes.

your right what was i thinking, next lets just make it so people cant use staff on thieves because we dont want to balance it. Good luck next year mesmers because you cant apply conditions anymore since it was unfair.

If me and my guild want to play 5 ranger premade with 1 traps, 1 shouts, 2 glyphs and bunker we should have the option. This is a 5 vs 5 and if this game wants to be ESPORTS maybe it should actually act like it.

Maybe i dont know the Esports and kids who want to be competitive on a game but last time i checked the NBA didnt stop the Warriors from playing 5 guys 6" 8 and under. They didnt say you have to play someone in the post. The NBA didnt stop the lakers in the 80s and said hey you have to shoot a bunch of 3’s.

Of course though in this game and other imbalanced games you cant stack classes because of the imbalanced of it all. You can say they are balanced but if they dont allow stacking then obviously putting 1-2-3 of a certain type of class in the match gives a advantage to the other team and then the game isnt based on skill or luck but who had the most of X class.

An incredibly subjective and bias point of view. It’s as if you were part of a team who just lost their main class stacking team comp.

Mobas don’t allow stacked classes, the change does strengthen Conquest balances and it promotes class diversity. I’m all for it.

This doesnt make the game any different. For a team like the abjured who already ran 1 necro, 1 thief, 1 ele, 1 rev, and 1 engy. You look at ORNG before HOT who ran 1 guardian, 1 warrior, 1 thief, 1 mesmer, and 1 ele.

The best teams in the game already had class diversity, the only reason it doesnt now is because the game isnt balanced. Its like some really ignorant joke where people are saying OHHHHH heres a huge problem lets make bad rules for it.

Sitting here talking about mobas, some of us came to a game like this from wow, champions online etc etc etc because it was open combat and not a moba and now you use moba rules to say its a good idea? When they literally have hundreds of heros.

Making terrible rules and stipulations to fix a balance problem is like putting duck tape over your broken window and poking holes threw and saying we have air conditioning.

I guess it’s just easier to cry for nerfs and buffs and how bad the balance is than actually learning how to play the game before doing so.

There is no champion stacking in a moba for a reason and these games are a huge success in esports. GW2 is way easier to balance if you just have to focus on professions against every profession separately than it would be to focus on every profession + stacks of the same profession (balancing against op classes and balancing against op team comps at the same time). Five different professions form a team comp and the other team has to counter it with another team comp not by easy way stacking professions that would be fine if there would be only 1 of that professions but is extremely broken if there is more than 1 of that specific profession.

Yeah sure I understand that you want to play 5 ranger comp but then you shouldn’t cry about other stacking classes and how broken they are or cry that there is no balance at all. I know it can be frustrating if your op warrior or ele build was nerfed and you can’t really play anything else but want still play with the good players and you can’t do that and that is one of the reasons why class stacking shouldn’t be possible because it only makes the situation worse for you. This is also why I want to request this change to the ranked arena. The unranked arena can still be for the people who want to play broken team comps.

You have to understand kdaddy that sometimes balancing just isn’t possible in a way that class stacking would be worse than bringing more variety and playing 5 different classes.

There is a reason why i post this post to the pvp forum section. Nothing needs nerfs in pve.

Esl has a rule now where each team has to have 5 different classes in a team. This should be the way in matchmaking also. Official tournament rules should apply to the ranked arena if the goal is to get more competitive teams.

It’s no use to play for example with 2 same professions in a team if you can’t play that in a tournament and it’s not fair for teams that use 5 different professions to face multiple same professions on the enemy team.

The reason to apply this to the ranked arena is that 5 different professions is a good thing and makes this game way more balanced. It also makes balancing much easier.

Also swapping professions after the queue is over should not be a thing.

1. Scrapper has too high sustain. Reworking the invulnerability trait and/or changing hammer leap heals to not heal the scrapper would solve this problem. Scrapper is currently the new version of the old vampirism d/d ele.

2. Chill does too much damage. reducing this by 50% from 700-800 to 300-400 or then the maximum time you can stack chill to 3s maybe.

3. Druid pets have too much damage. Either make the new pets scale with ranger stats, reduce the damage or disable the new pets in pvp.

Also a thing that might end up being too broken is thief stomp elite skill that works with quickness.

Unrelenting Assault goes on cooldown without doing anything under the effect of slow. Previously if this thing happened you would still have the evade effect but now you just simply get the 12s cooldown and nothing happens. Please make slow not to affect this skill at all.

Under the effect of slow the skill cast is still extremely long and it goes to cooldown without doing anything.

Idk what people are complaining about this meta being as worse as the last or maybe even worse. This meta is by far better currently than the last one ever was (i know the meta builds haven’t been made yet). I hope this dps meta stays and people who complain about dying in 1 sec needs to actually learn to do something.

For me these people who are complaining now wants to have builds that can tank and kill 2v1 battles easily. That would be fine if that build is skillbased like making super good plays with 1 class to outplay the others. This is the ideal situation. Now these people who complain wants to have easy to play bunker build where they can’t die as easily and can still do damage and maybe even kill that 2v1 not with skills but with build.

Then these same people complain about bunker meta and no one dying and these same people complain about non bunkers and everything dying. Is the only solution for these people to give them op builds that no one else can’t use that can tank and kill and be good without being good for them to stop complaining?

I accept complains about clearly op builds like builds that can bunker 2v1 for ages and builds that can kill 1v1 easily without losing too much hp against equally skilled player. I also understand the counterplay builds and yes it’s kinda good to have those but it would be also nice that everything can kill everything in 1v1 if played correctly. Notice also the difference between skill and build if you come here to complain about dying. In this meta it seems like that people need more skills now that some easy to play bunker builds are gone.

This also happens after you get taunted and remain in melee range of the player or pet who taunts you.

This skill is way better when it hits targets who are not already down = dead. Also make this skill ignore ranger pets and mesmer clones.

Precision Strike hits houses in kyhlo and supplies/ground etc. in wvw

that is actually good because it puts more pressure to the ressers

Broken targeting system.

It helps you win downed fights tho.

Tim.6450:

The Ace.9105:

The point here is that if your team faces a team with 2-3 necros and 2-3 condi revs you almost certainly lose that match with a comp like 2x druid or druid ele + dps rev + scrapper + bunker mesmer just because the amount of conditions is too much and they do too much damage.

Again class problem, not mechanic problem.

Also condi builds need 1 stat for their damage and they can focus on building survivability while dps needs 3 stats to be effective.

Condi builds have different stats to boost its effectiveness: condition damage, expertise/condition duration and depending on trait setup precision. Second is that stats aren’t the only investment: traits, skills, rune effects , sigils, … are all possible investments for power or condi. Lastly even if there more options to invest in power then condi doesn’t mean that condi is more powerfull, it could just mean that power has a higher damage ceiling.

But still at the moment stacking conditions is way more efficient way to do damage in pvp compared to normal damage.

The point here is that if your team faces a team with 2-3 necros and 2-3 condi revs you almost certainly lose that match with a comp like 2x druid or druid ele + dps rev + scrapper + bunker mesmer just because the amount of conditions is too much and they do too much damage. Also condi builds need 1 stat for their damage and they can focus on building survivability while dps needs 3 stats to be effective.

chibbi.3706:

The Ace.9105:

Obindo.6802:

I like you and yes, imo u’re 100% correct! Also protection doesn’t defend vs condis (and prot is everywhere T.T)

Exactly. The condi damage is too close to normal damage and normal damage has so many things affecting to it.

How about resistance negating all conditions instead of just reducing them by 33% ?

How about condi clears, removing all the burst you just did ?

There are more means to defend yourself vs condi than vs power damage. And this is why condi hits more than power (also because it does damage over time).

I guess we could rework protection to affect condi damage and remove resistance. Also what comes to cleansing use weakness and protection to tank normal damage.

Conditions applied before invuln procs do damage while normal damage doesn’t. Traits and runes all reduce only normal damage. Only exceptions are the engi and rev trait but those also affect normal damage as well.

Then there is also toughness that reduces normal damage.

Obindo.6802:

I like you and yes, imo u’re 100% correct! Also protection doesn’t defend vs condis (and prot is everywhere T.T)

Exactly. The condi damage is too close to normal damage and normal damage has so many things affecting to it.

chibbi.3706:

The Ace.9105:

Currently conditions are a bit too easy to apply and they do too much damage. After this new update condition builds will skyrocket if nothing is done to them and it will be all condition to eliminate defensive aspects like block and invuln.

I’d really like to know where this comon misconception about condi being applied through invul and blocks comes from.

You know condi applies when you hit something, right ?

At least condi revs mallyx elite skill pulses conditions through everything while also triggering condition traits that passes through also. It doesn’t matter if you dodge, block, invuln, stealth… the torment from this skill will always apply to you. Also necro and rev has both unblockable conditions. You can test these by yourself if you want.

Tim.6450:

The Ace.9105:

Tim.6450:

Wait you are compaining about 2 classes, one of which doesn’t even make meta and you want a global mechanic change? On top of that you don’t even know how the classes function? I also assume you don’t know how mechanics like block interact with conditions since you say conditions eliminate invuls and blocks. How can I even take this serious?

Well some condition skills are unblockable and condi revs all the traits and banish enchantment goes through block. Embrace the darkness on condi rev goes through everything even while dodging or invuln.

So power skills have some unblockables as well. The rest seems more like a rev problem not a condition problem. So why need GLOBAL condition damage a nerf?

Because all the debuffs are affecting only to normal damage and because condi damage is too close to normal damage currently.

Tim.6450:

Wait you are compaining about 2 classes, one of which doesn’t even make meta and you want a global mechanic change? On top of that you don’t even know how the classes function? I also assume you don’t know how mechanics like block interact with conditions since you say conditions eliminate invuls and blocks. How can I even take this serious?

Well some condition skills are unblockable and condi revs all the traits and banish enchantment goes through block. Embrace the darkness on condi rev goes through everything even while dodging or invuln.

displacedTitan.6897:

When I look at which builds are in meta and which are not, condi doesnt seem to be the problem.

Are there any good pure condi builds at all? So many things just shut them down that its hard for me to imagine complaints like this are real.

The meta in NA is 2 condi revs, 2 bunker mesmers and ele. The meta in EU also has 2 revs and at least 1 condi.

Blue Hare.8612:

The Ace.9105:

Currently conditions are a bit too easy to apply and they do too much damage. After this new update condition builds will skyrocket if nothing is done to them and it will be all condition to eliminate defensive aspects like block and invuln.

What are you talking about? It takes skill . https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z0JWZ8t08TY

Wow. This is quite ridiculous.

nacario.9417:

Ur way of describing necros condi application and mechanics are quite vague, as if spoken by someone watching from the outside without knowing whats inside

You are correct. This is based on what I have encountered so far after hot release.

Saiyan.1704:

Anet isn’t going to completely rework conditions mechanically. To be honest, bunkers are easier to play than condition builds. Power builds really aren’t that far off in difficulty either. Build difficulty is just a poor man’s excuse for having the improper build to counter said build variant.

In retrospect, condi builds is not easy to utilize at all amongst the higher tier division teams. It’s actually more difficult to make viable that power builds, believe it or not. We just have too many counters vs a syncronized team comp with condi clears thrown everywhere.

Revs are not condi builds, they’re hybrid built. Don’t put them in the same catagory. Likewise, there’s still numerous offmeta builds that counters condi builds. So if you’re on a team full of zerk or marauder dps builds without a necro, guard, ele, cleansing the team… it’s not that opposing condi guard, necro or rev’s fault for countering you all.

I wasn’t really talking about condi builds more than sayig that those condi builds that can counter blocks and invulns will skyrocket when bunker amulets are removed.

Currently in top tier everybody uses condi revs because of the high mobility and their conditions passing blocks and embrace the darkness passing even dodges so i guess those aren’t so hard to utilize either.

The main focus tho is on condition damage. Ofc full condition build is a poor build and like you said just a poor man’s excuse for having the improper build to counter said build variant. But if we look at new incoming amulets and look at the condi hybrid builds I have a feeling we might have a problem with these hybrids ruleing the pvp and making everything else not worth to run because of the conditions being too strong on them.

Currently conditions are a bit too easy to apply and they do too much damage. After this new update condition builds will skyrocket if nothing is done to them and it will be all condition to eliminate defensive aspects like block and invuln.

A good example of op condi damage is when condi rev enters the battle and the first second of that fight the rev applies 9 stacks of confusion, 7 stacks of torment and 3 stacks of burning doing 2k-3k damage per second which last for 7s approx.

Another example is how necro can spam every condi in the game especially chill that does a bit too much damage and if the necro takes correct traits it gets full deathshroud (blood magic?) everytime it enters to deathshroud while doing constant damage and tanking huge amount of damage multiple times.

Also conditions all debuff direct damage dealers and doesn’t reduce condition damage. If I would do something to conditions it would either to be 30% damage reduce overall or then make weakness to affect the condition damage as well.

Weakness

Endurance regeneration decreased by 50%. 50% of hits are Glancing Blows (50% damage). Stacks duration.

Weakness is a condition that decreases the rate of endurance regeneration and turns half of all hits into glancing blows (that deal 50% less damage). Stacks of weakness increase the duration of the condition. Only stacks up to 5 times.

Conditions should be only debuffs like reverse effect of boon and not debuffs with huge damage.

Engi would be almost fine with passive invuln trait nerf. I would also consider double ressing option and stealth gyro nerf.

Stealth shouldn’t be a combat or off combat thing and it should be more like utility option. Perma stealth and d/p stealth spam is almost the same than having invulns. These mechanics as they are now needs to stay off from the meta pvp at least.

Power, ferocity, vitality, expertise.

Power, vitality, ferocity, expertise

• I think passive invulnerability traits has to go. This would make engi more in line with other professions and still have enough sustain and damage.
• Revenant soothing bastion trait could also use a rework as well as warriors passive invuln.
• Thief slow steal is currently 7s and I think it’s a bit too much
• condi rev banish enchantment could have the confusion stacks lowered from 3 to 1 as well as the trait, condition duration shouldn’t affect taunt.
• Condition damage is a bit too high atm also and they should work more like debuffs.

Also remember to rework revenant downed 1 skill since slow doesn’t affect stomps anymore.

jessiestiles.9437:

Erik Waananen.6089:

Galandil.9641:

Eolirin.1830:

If that’s the case, then the achievement text needs to be changed, because it straight up says ‘in one season’.

That’s the case, devs stated so. In the end, one needs only to reach Ruby twice and Sapphire twice to get the precursor during all the 4 seasons this year.

So, yes, the backpack is pretty much grindable and that’s it, the League system was thought out exactly with that idea in mind (that’s why the “not-losing-pips-every-rank” system is on up until you hit Ruby).

Hey there, folks! My name is Erik and I’m the newest member of the PvP design team.

I think that there’s still a bit of confusion out there about progress regarding the PvP legendary backpack and so I just wanted to pop in and clarify once again that you DO NOT need to complete all of the legendary backpack achievements in a single season in order to acquire the backpack itself. I think the achievement text that Eolirin is referring to is for the “Primordial Legend” achievement, which, while it does require completing in a single season to finish, is not linked to your Ascension progress in any way. Some players who climb to higher divisions faster than other players will naturally be able to finish their legendary backpacks sooner, but again, the achievements for the backpack can be worked on over the entire year’s lifespan of the Ascension achievement category and do not need to be finished in a single PvP league season. Hope that clarifies some things!

Seriously 1 year? And how many seasons is that? Because we need to cross 4 divisions in a single season 4 times and lots of us wouldn’t even have unlocked 4th ascension yet because of the daily time gate. So we will need to have 4 more seasons? Or will getting to legendary in one season be necessary? If so what percentage of people even make it to legendary.

This will clarify if it’s even possible.

Besides the pvp legendary backpiece is a reward from skilled pvp gameplay. It is not meant to be for everyone. If you want to get a legendary backpiece you can get it by doing fractals in pve.

NeHoMaR.9812:

Brazzi.2045:

soo…. um…. MMr tanking and premades stomping pugz will still be a thing, same kitten all over again?

That “mmr tanking” is only a problem before ruby, no? Now, the premades are a problem, a real one, but at least they are going to be of your division, I suppose, and not legendary people with an amber (that is also legendary because is using alternative account)

No, what I understood from their post was that mmr only affects your team. So tanking mmr gives you worse teammates. What matchmaking does in season 2 is that it matches you against players in same point range (pips?) without using the mmr matchmaking and uses division as your mmr against your opponents while keeping your personal mmr as an indication of your teams skill level. This system tries to get players who have same mmr than you in your team.

So basically teams that face each other are only balanced in terms of mmr inside each team but between 2 teams there is only division point range balance. For example high rank players get que with high rank players and low rank players que with low rank players and divisions separate these mmr tiers. Now with winstreaks high mmr players progress faster to their own division so eventually those players will que against each other leaving low mmr players behind. This means that division will finally show the players individual skills and low tier players can finally progressively get better.

Season 2 system is by far a better system than this current season 1 system.

Thank you for this.