I like this idea. It’d be nice to have a true range option when using d/d, or melee option when running staff. At the end of the day it’d be pretty much equivalent to a weapon swap, except fire and air would not have the same range….so this would probably never happen as we aren’t going to be able to juggle 40 skills at once
This is in regards to SPVP: I’m all for the elite spec changing up the playstyle of the elementalist but I just can’t get over being locked out of an attunement for so long. I really don’t want Tempest to be balanced around this design. When entering an attunement I don’t want to have to stall in it for an overload that may easily backfire on me depending on what my opponent does and I certainly don’t want to wait longer than my original attunement cooldown to re-enter an attunement.
It all boils down to risk/reward. Maybe if an overload is successfully completed, the ‘lockout’ period should be cut by 33% or 50?
In the general sense, not every elite specialization has to be masters of or even capable of removing conditions. Having said that, because tempest is specifically supposed to be for group support, it doesn’t really make sense to me that the shouts/trait line have no way of removing conditions. Every support oriented tempest will be forced into water line, which is bad.
This leads back to the original problem where the base class is probably better at overall group support than the Tempest is, and sacrifices less damage in the process.
The overloads should be game changers. Like, devastating to the opponent if air and fire are completed, and team saving if water and earth are completed. Think about it -
lowest HP, lowest armor, melee-range, 4 second channel after 6 second buildup, no dodges, no skill casting that isnt insta-cast, no attunement swap which is core mechanic. There are no riskier skills in the entire game.
The result of this should not be similar to just casting regular skills instead, it should be far, far better. Still not seeing this in BWE3.
For me at least it was the shaders. I am on a Windows PC.
Really hoping the devs see this!
Powerful Aura and Tempest Shouts simply does not interact well with each other.
Aura from shouts are getting double applications frequently, which is fine with Zephyr’s Boon, Elemental Shielding, and Element Bastion, since you can get double boons or heal from it.
But I think it could be nice if Powerful Aura can actually modifies the number of allies that affected by the aura from shout to 10 instead of 5 doubles? It could be nice as a support in a raid squad.
About the tooltip, maybe adding an extra line to distinguish Number of Enemy Targets (affected by the condition) and Number of Allies (affected by the auras) as an QoL?
I would love to see the 10 target effect for both auras and WH boons.
I think the ideal behind tempest is you do not need powerful aura becuse all the auras but overload ones (would not be too much to ask for these to be aoe too) are build in aoe. It would be nice to go aura support tempest with out needed to go into powerful aura and take something else in water OR comply get out of the water line for max boon on auras.
Exactly. I have been playing around with Air/Earth/Tempest because I don’t feel the need for powerful auras. The only thing I am missing is condition removal, which might make ER necessary over the shout heal.
I’ve thought about what you propose for #1. I think it would wind up being OP to get all auras, because I believe if you have multiple auras, any additional effects would stack. For example, if you take the air and earth traits that grant fury, swiftness, and protection on aura, you’d wind up with those boons for an awfully long time.
I’d honestly just rather see an elite skill that does something totally different, more in line with the ‘Tempest’ concept.
There’s something that needs to be mentioned that I haven’t seen yet here.
For anyone who is basing their tempest experience on PvE, many/most of the mobs in the open world were (apparently mistakenly) nerfed. So even though I initially thought I was being much more effective than in the previous BWEs, at least some of that must be attributed to the content being easier.
The swiftness trait makes absolutely no sense. I have no idea why you would want this. The stability on overload needs to replace that one.
I find it interesting that no one has mentioned the biggest problem I experienced with Rebound: It doesn’t effect the elementalist themselves.
Now regardless of how good a skill it would be otherwise (and, granted, I might have just experienced a bug), this makes it absolutely useless in solo play, and barely usable as a niche effect in dungeons/raids. The heal/buff need to affect the caster as well as targets around them.
I think it does, but there is some sort of lag between when you use it and when it is applied.
The mastery concept isn’t bad but running around the first map without gliding and jumping mushrooms is a huge pain. At least after a few days of normal playing, we will have that.
The events themselves tend to be mostly quite fun,
I honestly haven’t seen any ‘fun’ events so far. The most common ones are the ones where you have to go back and forth collecting parts, and ‘defend this spot’ events. The boss battle that I saw (with the flying wyvern) was cool, but overall I haven’t really seen anything interesting happen, especially at night.
The entire noble ledges storyline was quite fun. It was hysterical if you bothered listening to what the NPCs were saying. There are immersion players and there are mechanics players.
As an immersion player, the events are fantastic. If you’re just looking at pure mechanics, questing on almost any game is going to fall short because there are only a handful of types of quests and all that ends up mattering are how they’re dressed up.
I understand, but basically ‘defend this spot’ has become the new ‘kill ten rats’. Mechanically the events are missing something.
I think that makes much more sense than the current implementation, but unfortunately it’s so close to release that that would never happen.
The events themselves tend to be mostly quite fun,
I honestly haven’t seen any ‘fun’ events so far. The most common ones are the ones where you have to go back and forth collecting parts, and ‘defend this spot’ events. The boss battle that I saw (with the flying wyvern) was cool, but overall I haven’t really seen anything interesting happen, especially at night.
I have been testing Scepter/Warhorn in PvE, a fresh air build. Having a fun time with fire and air overloads. I haven’t used the earth one much, maybe once, because I am not finding any reason to go into earth attunement. Water doesn’t feel right. If I need it, I need it now, not in 5 seconds. It should also have better condi removal.
I find the warhorn skills to be lackluster. Air #5 is just awful, and I am really finding myself missing RtL/Updraft. I felt like water #4 was more powerful in the last beta, but maybe that was just me. The water field on #5 is too fast.
The shouts are probably the worst part of the spec. I find no reason to use them. As others have stated, some of the overload traits need to be made inherent to the overload, and there needs to be some love in the traitline for the shouts.
Can also confirm that putting shaders on low fixes this, although it’s far from an ideal solution.
Can the subject of this be changed? This has nothing to do with headaches, it’s just an effect that isn’t working properly on some pcs.
Here is a screenshot I captured. I hope it is OK to post this.
That brightness just pulses every few seconds.
I’ve never had a problem with any game before. Forget about the headaches, there is clearly a graphics issue that some of us are experiencing. I’ll upload a screenshot tonight, you will see that it is not subjective.
Yes, pulsating brightness is the best way to describe it. I’ll try out that setting later.
What graphics card does everyone have? I have an 860m
It’s actually even bad during the day. the way that the sunlight constantly flashes extremely brightly.
This is the second BWE in a row where I am struggling to find anything to do. It’s currently nightime in my map.
Also it was a huge mistake to not give us at least the first level gliding mastery for this BWE. The map isn’t fun without it, and with no events, there’s no way to level it up.
Yes, it’s not the brightness setting, but I am getting a headache as well. Especially at night, there are just too many unusually bright ‘foggy’ areas.
I don’t see the heal being used over Ether Renewal because there is no other condi removal.
I don’t see the water or air shouts getting any use. Why doesn’t the air one give an aura? As others have mentioned, they all need to be insta-cast. And unless I am missing something, basically any skill that does ‘something + earth aura’ is strictly going to be used when reflect is needed.
Swiftness on overload doesn’t make sense and is a waste of a minor. Stability on overload should be that minor, because it’s a must have trait anyway.
All of my posts are from a PvE perspective.
Overloads feel pretty good now!
Rebound – honestly, there is no saving it. It needs to be replaced with a storm-related elite. Has absolutely nothing to do with the specialization, and I haven’t used it once.
Shouts still don’t feel that great. The earth one is an obvious ‘use only when you need a reflect’. Should have the option to clear a condi or 2 without needing the runes.
Not gonna lie, I am disappointed by the scepter buffs. And they are buffs, I suppose, but they’re just not going to make much of a difference.
Go away, Necros. Hijack another thread to cry about your class. You’ve been getting significant buffs across the board in every major patch within the last few months, you are set to get one of the best (if not the best) elite specializations, and you still whine about your class on other class subforums?
Talk about a victim complex.
You guys got the victim complex, being one of the most demanded classes and still cry about everything. All I said was we didn’t get better changes either. Also there will be more changes, so hold your breath and wait. That’s what I will do.
My main is an Ele, but my second main is a Necro, and I gotta say, both profession forums are really whiny; really all the profession boards are, come to think of it. Everyone’s always convinced they’re in the worst spot.
I don’t think any Ele thinks that the class is in the worst spot. There are some legitimate complaints though -
1. Tempest is the worst elite spec. If it is used, it will only be because the base class is strong enough, and people are tired of using the same builds over and over.
2. Scepter is rarely used at least in part because the AAs are just awful.
Although ele is strong overall, that strength is primarily because of a few builds that are very strong, but besides that there is little variety.
I believe that currently auras on overload apply on the completion of the overload. How about a trait that would make the auras apply on initiation of the overload? That, coupled with the earth trait to apply protection on aura, could be a huge help in actually getting overloads to complete.
I guess you additionally need to spec into earth for protection, and air for swiftness + fury on aura. I believe those boons get copied over as well. Ideally the tempest traitline would boost auras, but it does not.
But I agree, 3 of the 4 auras by themselves are almost useless.
Then it is the disconnect between the concept and the implementation, because I don’t see storms anywhere.
The new elite should have been a massive storm of all elements. This alone would make tempest interesting and justify the super low damage Warhorn does.
Couldn’t agree more. Seems unlikely at this point though.
Here’s what I’d like to see.
Each overload contributes to the overall potency of the storm. For example, if you fire overload and then water overload and then hit your elite, you would trigger an elite storm that has elements of fire and water. If you overload all 4, you’d get a massive storm that contains all 4 elements. This would then reset every time you triggered the elite, with a 60-90s cd.
At least one of protection/swiftness/retribution should be inherent bonus to anyone who is granted an aura, with the option through traits to give the others.
Fire aura (probably the most easily obtained one) by itself is fairly useless.
Lack of Imagination for the tempest concept.
Honestly that’s not true. Lack of impact, maybe. But it’s a cool concept. Horns and storms have a strong connection in Tyrian lore.
Then it is the disconnect between the concept and the implementation, because I don’t see storms anywhere.
My complaints about Warhorn in the high cast time on non-damaging skill like fire 4, Earth 4. With such cast time, they seem questionable to cast.
For instance, is it truly worth it to cast for 1/2 seconds to get 4 seconds of protection and a blast finisher?
Earth 4 is kind of weird. 4 seconds of protection doesn’t seem so good, so this will just be used as a blast finisher. And then this is also getting a magnetic aura, which is so powerful that this will only be used when you need a magnetic aura.
In general the warhorn just seems very bland, I agree. Especially now that we’ve seen all the other elite specializations.
just because other classes can spec to fill a role that one does doesn’t make your class less useful. its all about team work.
It makes the class less useful when the other class does it significantly better.
So what, doesnt mean you cant top it off with your support.
I honestly don’t see auras as a good enough support. Not to mention the base class can spread auras just/almost as well as the elite specialization.
Holy crap, Druid just COMPLETELY blows Tempest away in the group support department…AND does it at range.
Agreed. And especially with the increased emphasis on how difficult the new content will be, it is even more clear that Tempest does not have the tools necessary to survive in melee range
just because other classes can spec to fill a role that one does doesn’t make your class less useful. its all about team work.
It makes the class less useful when the other class does it significantly better.
With the proposed changes to Heat Sync I can’t think of a single reason to take warhorn over OH dagger or focus.
Aura traits are still spread out into every single line. Two in fire/air/water, one in earth/arcane, and three in tempest.
Yes but you had to take Fire before to generate any kind of real amount of Auras for the Signet aura generation. So you’d be trapped in Fire/Water/Tempest. With the new system you have generation on Shouts and you’re only trapped into Water/Tempest with Fire/Air as the alternatives (or Earth, if you’re masochist).
When I was playing the last BWE, I felt obligated to take Earth for the protection on aura (which should be in the tempest trait line), and the -10% in melee range.
We added two things to overloads today:
Overload Air will imbue allies with electricity, giving them the Static Charge buff. An ally with this buff will deliver a Lightning Jolt to the first enemy they strike.Overload Earth will now leave behind a dust-nado (name ongoing) at the tempest’s location when complete, which delivers the same effects that occur while overloading (cripple, bleed, protection). Increased bleed duration to 9 seconds per strike.
Dust Storm – warhorn: Increased the velocity that each storm appears by 33%.
Sounds awesome. I think an ending effect is exactly what these needed. This coupled with the stability helps even out the risk/reward.
Do auras still proc at the end of the overload? Any chance they could proc at the beginning? That’d have great synergy with the earth trait for protection on aura, especially since we cannot dodge while overloading.
These changes are a huge step in the right direction. Harmonious conduit is exactly what we needed, but as such, will be basically required.
I think there are SO many ways to give group might, that a skill to spread just your might seems redundant.
One thing I am honestly confused about now is what role this elite spec is supposed to fill. If heat sync gets nerfed, the boon sharing of this build seems significantly worse than what we already have. And this isn’t a damage oriented elite either.
I still can’t imagine how this will survive in melee range against bosses.
I still don’t like rebound. It’s too twitch based and 5 seconds is nothing. This elite specialization still screams ‘for the most competitive team with everyone on teamspeak’.
(edited by The Great Al.2546)
What really bothers is that it looks rushed.
The Tempest skills lack synergy, there is no good reason to combo them: the cast times are so long and the animations are so slow that the only good field blast interaction is the one the community asked for with earth 4.
It’s not made to work with Staff or Scepter. Did Anet forget that we do not have weapon swap? So basically every time we equip a staff or a scepter we need to remove the tempest line and the shouts because their interaction is lackluster.
Even the reworked elite, it may do something “useful” in comparison to the original one, but it’s still just number changes with a “aura = 1” added.
Nothing can feel new that way.Look at the new mesmer elite, they made a new condition just for it. It does something freaking cool that doesn’t look rushed.
The Revenant elite is just so much better, and it does support as well as damage.
It’s not even really made to work with dagger either. The only reason that is the only usable combination, is because the dagger at least has AA’s that make it possible to stay in an attunement for more than 3 seconds.
The biggest problem overall that I have is that you can’t just give a class an offhand weapon and expect it to have any sort of different playstyle. I understand this elite is for group support, but if you have to use scepter or dagger MH, then 12 out of your 20 skills (all of the ones that will be used most often) have absolutely nothing to do with group support.
Tempest is a skirmish spec. It doesn’t have ranged options, just like the Reaper doesn’t, and the Dragon Hunter is more ranged. If you want to use Tempest with a staff, prepared to get in close.
In other news, I’m still waiting for OH pistol.
It’s ok that Reaper is melee and DH is ranged, because the weapons are 2H (even a MH weapon could have dictated this).
However with an OH, the only real mainhand this works with is dagger. Scepter seems like it was an afterthought – the blast finishers on fire don’t even work.
Anyone NOT planning on using the new specs??
in Guild Wars 2: Heart of Thorns
Posted by: The Great Al.2546
The entire elementalist community.
Basically this. I however will be using an elite specialization, because Reaper is amazing.
We’re iterating in quite a few areas for this specialization, including Rebound. Here’s the description of the latest implementation we’ve been testing over the last few days:
“Shout and infuse your allies with arcane energy. Allies who would take lethal damage while this is active ignore the deathblow and are healed instead. If the effect expires naturally, grant an aura based on your current attunement.”
Another problem I have with this is, in a best case scenario, all you get out of this is a single aura. Still not worthy of an elite skill.
Other opportunities for better traits:
Condi removal on aura application to 5 allies nearby
All auras applied to allies nearby have x% increased duration.
I think that the tempest should get another form of defense instead of vigor. Vigor simply doesn’t work with overloads in their current state. If overloads were changed so that you could dodge while channeling then maybe it would work, but I wouldn’t count on that happening.
I agree with this as well. The problem is that protection on aura is in the earth line, which is basically mandatory IMO as a tempest because of that and the damage reduction in melee range. I’d like to see protection on aura moved to tempest as well. This would destroy any non tempest aura builds but I think I’m ok with that.
Vigor on switch to water attunement doesn’t make sense thematically or mechanically for the tempest. How about 5s vigor when gaining an aura, with an internal cool down of 10 seconds?
Hard hitting mobs Am I doing this wrong?
in Guild Wars 2: Heart of Thorns
Posted by: The Great Al.2546
On the reaper, I had no problems whatsoever. On tempest with celestial armor, forget about it. I can’t imagine playing a tempest in the new maps. Glassy melee support is honestly the last thing I ever would’ve asked for on the Elementalist.
Great feedback. I agree that you shouldn’t get all of the masteries within a few weeks, but I think the first level in a mastery should be shorter. I was fortunate to already have gliding unlocked for the BWE, but there were so many areas that I couldn’t get to (or at least, couldn’t figure out how to get to) without the bouncing mushrooms.
Hi all!
We’re iterating in quite a few areas for this specialization, including Rebound. Here’s the description of the latest implementation we’ve been testing over the last few days:
“Shout and infuse your allies with arcane energy. Allies who would take lethal damage while this is active ignore the deathblow and are healed instead. If the effect expires naturally, grant an aura based on your current attunement.”
The more I play other elite specializations, the more I don’t like the idea of the new Rebound. It doesn’t solve one of the main issues of the current iteration, which is that it doesn’t fit into the theme of the elite spec whatsoever. What does this have to do with being a Tempest? I’d rather have an elite version of glyph of storms, at least that would fit in to the theme.
A point that should be brought up a bit more often actually. Tempest implies storms, but currently the only “storminess” is the fire overload, and we all know how much overloads suck.
/sigh.
“It’s a metaphor.”
A metaphor for what? Group melee support with shouts? Unlike every other elite spec, there is absolutely no theme with this elite. Not to mention the base clase already had storm-like spells.