Guild Wars 2

Randulf.7614:

Sylent.3165:

I’m getting headaches. To much orange and green. Only colors really on the screen

The colour palette has kinda hit me too. TBH it’s a jungle and to be expected, but I think the smoke effects are washing the colour a lot, blurring things out which isn’t helping. The fps issues will also be coming from the smoke for many people.

I fed back about smoke effects being too much last bwe, they instead seem to be even more present now.Added with the higher level of gfx detail and particle effets flying off everywhere, the smoke/mist is just an extra layer too much for my eyes. It’s also distilling the night effects somewhat which is a shame.

I thought it was just my PC. The smoke/fog effects are WAY too bright.

I literally agree with every word you said, and I couldn’t have said it better myself. Sums up my feelings exactly.

I also stopped playing the beta for the same reasons. I’ve seen the map, and the events themselves are not fun enough to play without having a reason to do so. After 3 years of iterating dynamic events, we are still basically getting ‘defend this post’ and ‘escort this person’.

Not to mention while playing a Tempest, I basically had to avoid every difficult fight. and honestly felt no different than playing with the base ele (except more difficult). Playing with a Reaper was at least more enjoyable.

I miss the ‘brand new campaign’ feeling of the GW1 expansions. Those gave us brand new worlds to explore. This doesn’t feel like that at all.

When I was roaming in the new map, and I was on my Reaper, I was excited to seek out fights against Veterans, and multiple enemies at once, etc. On my tempest, I was looking for ways around them. It just feels too squishy and you don’t get enough out of it.

I agree, there are times where there is a REALLY bright fog-like effect.

Bugabuga.9721:

Plus I also don’t want to play it on my elementalist — when events happening I get one-two-shot without any visibility to what/who/why one-shot me. Especially when other people are around and something ranged decides to nuke me and not a ranger. I guess it’s good for “challenging” content, but I don’t like not being able to see something that is about to insta-kill me.

It’s very hard to play this map as a tempest. I keep wanting to go back to my staff but am just sticking with the warhorn and shouts because they’re new

I’m sitting in the map, I think it is daytime, and there is literally not a single event running.

I agree that when you are by yourself, the map is VERY challenging (I am playing a Tempest, which is not designed for solo content). Seems like you have to stick with the group or you are in for a very tough time.

As a UI developer, I only hope that at some point I can design UX as awesome as that website!

My question to the developers is, is there any sort of book or website that you used in order to gain that sort of expertise? Really hoping to strengthen my UX skills – I am a desktop developer myself.

Again, awesome job!

Valento.9852:

Your suggested “Rebound!” is far more useful than the current one, but it requires us to predict some stuff and it can be very hard to do. It’s different than other elite specs which have a fixed effect for elites which doesn’t depend on third criterion. You could give us a 10sec PBAoE effect that empower allies around the tempest to increase effectiveness in an area (damage? outgoing condi. duration? periodic super speed?). If it could give some sort of boon, I wouldn’t mind to channel it, as long as I’m not forced to stay in melee.

I agree, I still don’t like it. This seems like the only spec that is specifically designed for something like high level Raid content. This elite spec is missing the fun factor that other elites (esp Reaper, DareDevil) have…would greatly prefer an elite skill that summons some sort of storm.

Karl McLain.5604:

Hi all!

Another small change we was due to the case that warhorn was missing an aura. As such (in our test iteration), Magnetic Aura now belongs to Sand Squall, in addition to its other properties. Looking forward to your constructive feedback from this BWE.

-Karl

This is certainly a nice but, but the problem is that Magnetic Aura is so powerful that this skill will only be used for that. And how often will you need Magnetic Aura and a blast finisher at the same time?

I think that Overloads need to have a stability bar, as well as the ability to dodge without canceling the overload. There aren’t enough ways to help ensure the overload succeeds without relying on others.

In general I just don’t think the survivability is where it needs to be. Would like to see ‘protection on aura’ get moved to the tempest line. Vigor on aura would be an interesting trait as well.

Rebound doesn’t work for me, and even if it did, still isn’t good enough for an elite (or even a utility slot) and doesn’t fit the tempest.

We really need at the very least, the ability to dodge without breaking an overload. Ideally we’d have a stability bar for every attunement.

Really need more inherent defenses in order to take this over any of the existing melee builds.

I would take ‘protection on aura’ trait out of earth line and into the Tempest line, too.

Jski.6180:

NaotsuguLH.8915:

Honestly, if Tempest water and air weren’t so bleh. I would love to. Doesn’t help that the traits are completely ununified.

I think its “tempest line” more aimed on what you want out of the tempest class. If you go overload doing added effect aimed then you can build the line that way if you want to go more self def you can build that way too. The last line of GM only has 2 def tool one aura and one overload the 3ed is pure WH off hand. The aura def tool my be the best for non wh tempest and the overload aimed one may be better for “light tempest” aimed builds where your just using overload as a get out tool that i can see good for staff builds.

Aura support i think is going to be 3, 3or2, 3. Boon / wh tempest its going to be 1or 2, 1 or 2, 1. For s/wh tempest the dmg version i think its going to be 1, or 2, 2, 3. For staff dmg tempest its going to be 1, 2, 2. A fun d/d dmg tempest i think 2, 1, 3 but that going to need some testing.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vFAQJAoYncMAFOgdOAWYCcYilHAzdymZ/sEDhgQLQIAcAahA-TlRQwAhUWxUPAIlKnV/Bw+DqUCGAABYn1ZAc0je0je0jWdWn1ZpAYSrF-w

This is what i have in mind for support aura d/d ele you could use a staff if you want and the frost aura shout can be fire or earth if you want. For me i like going down air for more dmg / support if fire blinding ash was icd per person i would go fire over air but sadly its per burn abitly. You could go arcain and if you did its best to give up the cdr on overloads for strong self protection as you will have perma protection on.

I wouldn’t mind taking overload traits but unless every attunement overload gets a stability bar, there’s no point.

Altair.8402:

Rebound needs to not be something that’s a generic cooldown reducer. Even if the numbers are tuned so it’s perfectly balanced and all bugs related to it are fixed, it still:

- Has no synergy with the rest of the skills at all
- Has literally nothing to do with any of the 4 elements
- Makes zero thematic sense to be part of the tempest’s kit
- Feels like something a mesmer would do

Scrap it completely and start over.

This is pretty much it. Even if the skill was functional, it makes no sense, and there isn’t a single trait that it synergizes with whatsoever.

Laodike.8640:

Irenio CalmonHuang.2048:

The concepts behind overloading an element were pretty well received, however you called out that the time cost of overloading compared to the final rewards were too unbalanced.

The first part of the sentence must be a joke, it was very bad received. It doesn’t fit elementals at all. Increasing the numbers is not close to enough, it needs to be redesigned: remove the requirement to channel it!!!!!! + reduce the availability CD from 5 sec to 3 sec.

Redesign the Elite!!!!!!! (make it e.g. on a very low CD, so that it makes at least sense)

Overall I am very disappointed. I didn’t expect much, but the elementalist specialization is worser than everything I could imagine.

However warhorn was fine. Traits were ridiculous.

The warhorn is ok on it’s own, but not with this specialization. What we really needed was a weapon that would allow us to comfortably stay in an attunement for longer periods of time (i.e. short cooldown spells and usable AA’s), not another offhand with long cooldowns.

I honestly think the only way that overloads can work is with a new main hand weapon that has usable autoattacks in water and earth.

Right now, in order to use an overload you have to stay in an attunement for a minimum of 5 seconds, but there is no weapon that allows you to do this in earth or water in a productive manner.

If Anet really wanted Tempests to have a viable Auramancer build, instead of just nerfing the aura on signet trait, they should have actually removed more of the existing aura traits and put them in the tempest traitline.

Xillllix.3485:

Blood Red Arachnid.2493:

Currently, it isn’t looking good for the PVE tempest.

PvE enemies generally knock you down or interrupt you every 2-3 seconds. That makes Overloads useless even in the context of fighting a single npc, you are just going to get interrupted while channeling.

I never really noticed this in my earlier level-ups, but I am leveling up a necro and couldn’t help but notice that every time I entered shroud, I got knocked down or interrupted. Was it always like this? I think 2-3 years ago leveling up didn’t have so much interrupt on you Either way, I agree that this will be unusable in its current form. At least in organized PvP you can hopefully count on someone giving you stability.

Alphard.6529:

morrolan.9608:

Wat? You barely see any staff eles in sPvP and when you do they are mostly ineffective.

Even some top teams have a staff ele in the weekly tournaments occasionally, so they’re good, just not super popular. There’s a meta build for spvp: http://metabattle.com/wiki/Build:Elementalist_-_Celestial_Staff

The Great Al.2546:

I agree with you, which is why melee group support just inherently didn’t make sense

It inherently doesn’t make sense? What? The best support build currently is not even d/d, it’s the staff build, the tempest needs to compete with that. Since staff is a ranged weapon, a melee support spec would be nice. They just need to improve the warhorn and the overloads.

What can tempest do that D/D can’t?

Coldtart.4785:

The Great Al.2546:

The original intent of the elites was that they would not be stronger than the base profession. Unfortunately with the warrior, mesmer, and necro, there are very clear situations where the elite is the obvious choice.

This is how it should be though. Elite specs should be clearly better than the base class at something. What they shouldn’t be is better than the base class at most things or everything, because then you will always use elites and never the base. They also shouldn’t be clearly worse at everything than the base class either, because then you will never use the elite spec. This is the current state of tempest; there is no build you can make for tempest that would not be improved by not taking tempest.

I agree with you, which is why melee group support just inherently didn’t make sense, and why the elite spec was supposed to be about bringing a new role.

Xillllix.3485:

See the guy who designed the Warrior berserker mode understood: When using berserker mode you have 10% speed boost on your skills.

Tempest is just the opposite: When you activate the tempest overloads you get penalized with longer attunement cooldowns instead of shorter ones. On top of all the new skills barely doing any damage it doesn’t even buff our core mechanic.

This is why the core of the tempest design is being criticized so much. It’s not helping the class at what it does good when you master it (fast attunement swapping through many skills).

The original intent of the elites was that they would not be stronger than the base profession. Unfortunately with the warrior, mesmer, and necro, there are very clear situations where the elite is the obvious choice. Even for guardian, when you want to go ranged, you are going to pick DH. I still am not clear under what situations you’d want to use the Tempest.

Xillllix.3485:

Alphard.6529:

The Great Al.2546:

Any chance that we get a look at additional changes today?

I’d guess no, because they’re looking at more changes than what the Dragonhunter got today, and we already know how posting just a few tweaks on this forum turns out.

It turned out well actually. They got to hear what everyone was thinking which is exactly what was needed. If they want Tempest to be a success it’s up to them now, they should know what to do with all the suggestions pretty much going in the same direction.

They do need to tell us they are redesigning the elite skill. That would calm down a lot of people.

Yes, I think the DH feedback posted yesterday was a great step in the right direction.

Would really love to know how the devs are going to fix some of the traits, and of course the elite.

Any chance that we get a look at additional changes today?

Knighthonor.4061:

Malchior.5732:

Knighthonor.4061:

So which provide the best heals per second, Tempest or baseline Elementalist?

With the recent buff to Water Overload, probably the Tempest.
Before it was definitely an Elementalist who swapped constantly rather than camp Water.

Well there you are. Like i said, the Elite Specialization seem all built for this new group content that Anet doesnt want to talk about yet, and seem to all be more focus on traditional trinity roles which may be the reason this feature is being talked about on the low until closer to release.

tempest likely the new group healer role for the new group content. Would be useful there. Not so much in vanilla GW2 in which everything is dps.

thats why i say wait until we know everything before saying something is useless. Not everything was revealed.

I think GW2 will always be more about not getting hit (dodges, reflects, etc), moreso than the management of your health bar. If the new content really did require dedicated healers, I don’t think it would make sense to make the first real ‘healer’ spec a melee range class.

And the fact remains that yeah, for old content, there is no point in group support.

This is going to be a VERY niche spec, possibly only used in ‘challenging group content’, if that. Considering this is the first major change to classes in 3 years, I think we should have gotten an elite that (almost) everyone can enjoy. Later down the line, I can understand an elite like this, but not as the first one.

Irenio CalmonHuang.2048:

Hey everyone.

Not all feedback could be addressed this iteration in fair part due to time constraints on key members of our design team. That does not mean we are dismissing your feedback or that all the issues you’ve raised up to this point will go unchanged before expansion release.

This is a small set of changes from the first beta weekend event; we will continue to iterate on the specialization skills and mechanics and shall be listening for your constructive feedback.

We will be reviewing the Tempest traits along with casttimes vs. effects on overloads among several other aspects of the elite specialization.

I appreciate that everyone is super busy, but there are also a number of changes that could have gone a long way for the next BWE, that presumably would have required minimal development effort.

For example:

Changes that would almost certainly require very little development effort:
1. Adding stability break-bar to all overloads
2. Change Rebound to 50% reduction

Could either of these wind up to be too powerful? Possibly. But for a BWE, why not try it? These changes may as well be introduced sooner rather than later. I’m sure there are a handful of quick fixes that could have gone a long way.

Can you please explain why Rebound was not changed?

What about Rebound? And the traits? And on a higher leve, the fact that this elite does not actually bring a new role to the class? These changes do not address most of the concerns that we have with the Elite.

Wise One.9321:

I find both the water and earth interesting Utilities but very situational. Asking us to predict 5 seconds in advance when we may need them devalues them. With the 5 second warm up, I think to make them reasonably useful they would have to be buffed to the point where they would be way OP

This is the biggest problem with overloads IMO. Actually, this is a big problem with Eles in general – water and earth are situational and there is no reason to actually stay in the attunements. I was hoping that a mainhand weapon would have remedied this, since an OH with long cooldowns would never be able to change this.

Are these changes to be released today? Does anyone know?

Azel.4786:

Tim.6450:

I think you missed what I said I mean. For instance I meant that ele would offer things like boon removal/corruption, stealth, aoe stability… . The elementalist has a diverse set of tools already they’re just spread out over the weapons so to really create a “new role” I believe that the ele would have to take elements that right now felt out of their toolkit. Which bothers me a bit.

Also has fresh air spec not been a mid range single target dps spec?

Well, getting things that the class didn’t offer before is the whole premises of the elite specializations no?

To a certain extent yes, but the lack of synergy with existing traitlines would be a problem.

I like your idea, I think something needs to happen to the attunement (like you mention) when the overcharge is completed or in progress.

This breaks for fire staff though, because the AA is already basically the highest dps in the game. But with some tweaking this could work

Snow White.1842:

And why for the love of God do we need a minor trait to allow us to overload and nothing else? Can’t the spec ITSELF give us the ability to overload without WASTING a minor on it as a baseline? I guess that would be too much to ask

I agree that this design decision is a waste of a minor trait, however this is actually true of all of the elite specializations so far.

Xillllix.3485:

The Great Al.2546:

rotten.9753:

Azure.8670:

I’m so tired of the tempest hate I’m dying to know the changes

Then you are in for a long ride. :^)

I am still open to the idea but I tend to agree. I think the real mistake was deciding on close range group support, since we already have that. Making this build ’on par
or even slightly better than the existing options will not really change the reception, because after 3 years we were actually hoping for (and promised) a new role.

The truth sometimes comes out with a few words:
I was speaking to a players asking advice about how to play elementalist the other day, in our conversation at one point he said: “My main is a warrior, but I wanted to try a ranged class”.

There it is, the elementalist is a ranged class with some already existing good melee options. It will still remain associated with the Staff as it’s main weapon for most people, because it is how the majority envision a mage with elemental powers.

The main problem with Warhorn lies before all the technical problems people mentioned: [ lack of stability, overloads not worth using, camping attunements counter-intuitive and against arcane traits, shouts overlapping aura share trait, bad elite that doesnt fit the theme, etc. ]

It starts with the concept of making a melee range weapon that has no AoE storm and calling it tempest. I can pretty much guarantee you that what the vast majority of elementalists want is so more ranged variety (we already have 3 melee weapon and only 1 ranged). Basically a new set of staff skills would have been more interesting for all gameplay modes: different aoe control, new storms that are the equivalent of meteor shower, new types of cc and boons, perhaps make condi-staff viable, and elite that does something. Perhaps this could have been accomplished with new traits that extended the range and functionality of the scepter, if the warhorn is equipped.

In my opinion there seems to be something lost between the concept arts for the tempest and the end result, which doesn’t have much range and lack the epicness of large storms. With a name like Tempest almost everyone expected the largest AoE skills in the game.

Couldn’t have said it better myself. It’s almost as like the Tempest was designed with the sword in mind (or vice versa) but for some reason they decided to go with Warhorn/shouts instead.

rotten.9753:

Azure.8670:

I’m so tired of the tempest hate I’m dying to know the changes

Then you are in for a long ride. :^)

I am still open to the idea but I tend to agree. I think the real mistake was deciding on close range group support, since we already have that. Making this build ’on par
or even slightly better than the existing options will not really change the reception, because after 3 years we were actually hoping for (and promised) a new role.

Robert, if the main ele dev is on vacation, has anyone else been gathering the feedback that has been posted on reddit and here over the past week? By the time he gets back, the best feedback could be a few pages back.

The problem with the current elite is that the ‘effective close range fighting’ is dictated by the dagger, not the warhorn or shouts.

xadine.7069:

The Great Al.2546:

xadine.7069:

Devs have said that they have allready plan 3 elite / prof for HoT.
So it should be more… but in 2013 they also said new full set of legendary weapon for the end of the year…

Please do not spread false information. There is going to be one elite specialization per profession that will be released with HoT.

I never said they plan to release all elite spe at the release. I just said that they allready have plan 3 elite / prof wich its true, never said it is yet ready… They will be only one at release indeed. But learn to read…

Please link to an official source stating that there will be 3 elite specializations for each profession for HoT. My understanding is the next elite spec will not come out until the next expansion is released.

xadine.7069:

Devs have said that they have allready plan 3 elite / prof for HoT.
So it should be more… but in 2013 they also said new full set of legendary weapon for the end of the year…

Please do not spread false information. There is going to be one elite specialization per profession that will be released with HoT.

Azel.4786:

Hope this means that they are looking into a lot of changes.

Would be very disappointed if we get a topic saying “Yeah, we are very happy that the comments have been mostly positive and we are confident we are in a very good spot with the Tempest!”

I doubt that will happen.

I’m worried that this will be more about number tweaking and less about fundamental changes that would truly make this a new role.

KreatE.7612:

But the concept of being able to overload gives in the moment decision making of do I need the extra dmg / healing vs will it hurt me in the long run is dramatically different than any current ele playstyles. Most if not all current ele play-styles are based around the complete opposite mentality utilizing very STABLE and CONSISTENT healling/damage/dmg reduction builds i.e. d/d cele and staff ele. This difference is what makes it so awesome! To me personally, that decision making of risk vs reward is far more interesting than the repetitiveness you find in current builds.

Actually there is no in the moment decision making. If your group needs a cleanse of conditions, you have 5 seconds after swapping into water to determine if you still need to do it. Or if you traited water (which 99.999% of tempests will do), then you won’t even need to use the overload at all.

“Minor Master = Speedy Conduit Gain swiftness when overloading an attunement.”

I don’t understand the purpose of this trait. You don’t really need swiftness when you are overloading.

Gray.9041:

tempest, on the other hand, brings nothing new to the Ele, the overcharges leave you as a sitting duck, and the shouts were lackluster at best. I couldn’t bring myself to enjoy it, and I still feel like it’s the worst elite spec to date.

I agree with this. And to further this point, the elite spec does not at all fit what I would think to be a ‘Tempest’. 2 of the 4 overloads have nothing to do with storms/weather, the shouts do not fit, and the rebound is a mesmer skill that would not even be good enough to be a regular utility on a mesmer bar.

The problem with an ‘ability break stun for nearby allies’ trait, as pointed out by WP in one of his videos, is that the recharge on that skill will trigger whether it breaks a stun or not, so it’s not at all reliable.

i.e.

I cast a warhorn skill, now 45 second recharge starts on the stunbreak, whether it breaks stun or not.
20 seconds later, I get stunned.
Casting a warhorn skill will not break this stun.

Also out of your major masters, Stable Conduit is clearly the one to take. What would quickness even do if you can’t use any skills?

I really like your Element Potency and I think that should be inherent to the class. Right now it does not feel like you are overloading anything.

Azure.8670:

You guys are bugging beyond belief if you think this is better than tempest. I admit overloads are nowhere near what they should be, but tempest even now would fold this nonsense in half. Bah nvm I don’t know why I bother

Herald is a better upgrade for Revenant with regards to group healing, than Tempest is for Elementalist. Ele may be inherently a better class than Revenant at this point, but Herald is at least usable and useful for what it is broadcast to do.

Malchior.5732:

Valentinus.3412:

Seems like Revenant is going to be the Auramancer we were hoping for. Sigh…

Speak for yourself. I never wanted an Auramancer as my elite spec; something that could have been made more viable without using up all the new stuff(combine Elemental Bastion and Powerful Auras and give other lines more Aura traits, as right now, there’s only 1 real Aura trait in EACH of the main 4 lines…).

Instead, I wanted more of a Thief-Mage type thing. Something that didn’t rely on Stealth, but could be this hard-to-pin-down glass cannon, or maybe something that encouraged more attunement camping with appropriate mechanics to make it more skillful. However, we got a support spec that can barely support…seriously, all these new traits and the only somewhat worthwhile support is Elemental Bastion. Sure, the Shouts apply AoE Auras, but they completely undermine Powerful Auras. Tempest is just a mess.

I agree. We already had auromancer. Was really hoping for the Mage/Thief combo that you mentioned. Oh well, maybe for the next elite.

Xillllix.3485:

The problem is exactly that: our elite profession doesn’t work with most of what the elementalist is doing now, while the other classes elite professions improves them.

Warhorn and overloads are useless with a fresh air scepter build where you change attunements all the time. Overloads are useless for a staff ele who always stay at range if it prevents him from using his other skills. Support is already better on staff and at range anyway.

Basically even at support tempest is bad. You would be much better with a chronomancer giving alacrity and quickness or a guardian clearing condis, healing and giving aegis. And these classes don’t have to sacrifice all their damage to do that.

I agree -

If you want to play a ranged Guardian, DH is clearly better than just Guardian.
If you want to play a close ranged damage oriented necro, Reaper is clearly better than just Necro.
Chronomancer seems better than Mesmer entirely.
If you want to play a group support close ranged Ele, it’s not even clear that Tempest is on par with base Ele, much less better.

Both elite specializations will focus on group support.

Tempest is primarily melee range, because the overloads will only damage enemies very close to you.

Herald is ‘equally good for back line support’.

Additionally, the article stresses that the class is very high risk high reward. Unfortunately the tempest does not yet have the ‘high reward’ that we were hoping out of the overloads.

Thoughts? (Article for reference: http://massivelyop.com/2015/08/12/exclusive-guild-wars-2-revenant-elite-spec-is-the-herald/)

Malchior.5732:

The Tempest is forced down a support/healing route with very little else. The Chronomancer can pull off a ton of other roles. If this is all we’re getting and a damage-oriented spec is impossible, then I’m probably going to just swap mains; and I don’t mean that as a threat, I’m just extremely bored by the same d/d and staff playstyles I’ve been using for years now and the Tempest is just trying to be heal and boonbot 2.0 with nothing else :/

I agree. Unfortunately number tweaking alone will not fix the fun factor of this class. We have been doing frontline support for 3 years already, and especially in PvE, it’s just not that rewarding.

This still doesn’t completely answer the question of, if I have a target on my head, but I can’t see where it is coming from, how can I time the dodge? Or am I supposed to just run for cover?

The best way to use this skill might be with the runes that turn 5 conditions into buffs upon elite activation. Would really love to see it completely replaced though.