Guild Wars 2

My biggest hope is that water and earth are not essentially required to be a tempest. Since this class is designed around being close range, we need to have the tools available in the tempest trait line to stay alive, especially since overload essentially locks us out of doing anything else.

What exactly am I supposed to do when I have the target on my head? I assume either put up a reflect or dodge, but how do I time it?

to make matters worse, this isn’t even actually a shout. Not sure if that is a bug or not.

Thanks for your response. Really hoping to see more of a tower defense aspect to the night events, where the resources available depend on the day events.

RubiBayer.8134:

Xillllix.3485:

Love everything (all the PvE and new professions) except Tempest!
Tempest is terrible in my opinion (elite is useless, overload mechanic doesn’t work, shouts overlap traits, new trait lines is bad, warhorn is worse than focus or dagger offhand even as melee). It must be improved tremendously before the release.

In comparison Chronomancer is amazing.

Can you try to be more specific? We are really using this beta event as a true beta, so in a beta testing environment, what you are kind of saying is “My elite skill and overload mechanics are not functioning at all”, and I know that’s not what you mean.

It would help the teams working on it to make it better if you could let us know “I am not enjoying the Tempest in its current state. Here are the particular things things that are making me not enjoy it, and here are things that I would like to see done to change it.”

Hi Rubi,

There has been a lot of good feedback posted in the Elementalist forum.

It’s rare that the fanbase agrees on something almost 100%, but it seems like it is almost universally agreed upon that Rebound needs a total rework (I know this is not ‘specific’ feedback, but it has been posted many, many times in the Ele forums), and that the risk does not outweigh the reward of the overloads.

At the VERY least, I think that rebound should be changed to a 50% reduction, and should not trigger until a skill with a 30 second or greater cooldown has been activated. I’m not sure if you log these sort of statistics, but I would imagine that at LEAST 90% of all rebounds have been wasted on autoattacks. I would prefer seeing the skill swapped out with something new, because I don’t believe it makes sense for the Tempest to be reducing skill recharges.

I think the overloads should be changed to the following:

You should still be able to cast spells while overloading, and while the element is being overloaded, the spells should have additional effects (i.e. all fire spells would give off Might nearby, all earth skills would bleed, etc). Right now it doesn’t make sense to spend 5 seconds totally defenseless, especially when a dodge or attunement swap would break the overload.

For example, does the success of the night events impact the difficulty of the day events, or vice versa? Or are these just totally independent event chains?

I agree with you that the skill needs to be replaced. Not just reworked, but replaced with something totally different.

Unfortunately a ‘whenever you swap attunements’ elite wouldn’t make sense, because the Tempest is all about staying in one attunement.

The map is visually stunning. My only complaint so far is that the events seemed like more of the same…and for a large percentage of the time that I spent walking through the map, I hardly came across any events.

Azel.4786:

The Great Al.2546:

I don’t think an offhand weapon can really bring about a new playstyle. Your MH weapon defines your build, and there is nothing about dagger or scepter that says ‘group support’

Well they have advertised it as “creating an entirely new role” and a some people were eager for that. I for one pre-ordered based on that – which in my view has not been delivered with the tempest like it has been delivered by the other specializations (not judging if they are good or bad, but that they do bring new way of play).

I’m sorry, I was actually agreeing with you I was just trying to explain why I didn’t think it would really be possible to create an entirely new role with just an offhand.

JustinFarfan.6840:

The Great Al.2546:

I agree with you. Auras and a few boons are not enough in the way of damage mitigation to be able to give up the defenses that you mentioned.

I was trying to figure out the purpose of swiftness on overload – I guess if someone is trying to run away from your fire or air overload, then you’d be able to catch up? (Water no one would run away from, and earth would slow them down enough that you don’t need swiftness). Seems like a total waste. We need at least a trait option (if not inherent) of a breakbar on all overloads.

yea swiftness seems like a waste because if you were to use this in pvp, a ranger can easily point blank shot you from afar. Either way, stability would probably be the best solution for overloads. Hopefully with all the feedback anet improves tempest. Tempest does have a lot of potential and I would hate to see it go to waste

I think this is the biggest problem with overloads. The next biggest problem is that you can easily get a better damage output in fire and air without overloading, and water and to a lesser extent earth overloads, are things that you would need to do ‘now’, not ‘5 seconds from now’.

It all boils down to risk vs reward, and without stability I don’t think the reward could ever outweigh the risk. Even with stability, the overloads still need to be better than just straight up not using them, which doesn’t yet seem to be the case. (But this is just a beta, I would expect numbers to change before release)

Azel.4786:

After playing around with the Tempest I have come to the same conclusion as many here.

The Tempest provides new tools? Yes.
Are they good? Generally not in their current state.
Do they bring a new playstyle? Definitely not and currently are a downgrade from what we have.

Blackbeard I think explained it perfectly.

I don’t think an offhand weapon can really bring about a new playstyle. Your MH weapon defines your build, and there is nothing about dagger or scepter that says ‘group support’

Pazu.8320:

The Great Al.2546:

I agree with pretty much everything you posted. It’s funny, a few others (myself included) actually feel the that the water field moved too quickly. But besides that I agree with you. It’s worth mentioning at every opportunity that Rebound is just awful.

Not to mention that Rebound works with almost none of an ele’s skills. The water field moves at about the right rate. I can cast it as I’m moving forward and immediately blast with Frozen Burst, but I’ve never seen anyone else actually blast it.

Either this skill is completely bugged, or it was triggering on my autoattacks, because I never even saw a skill recharge reduced. Not that it would even matter if it was working.

RyanThomas.4182:

Up until now, there has been no reason to sit in water or earth attunement for longer than 3 seconds.

This is a problem with getting an offhand weapon. This class is supposed to be for group support, yet scepter and MH dagger are both only really useful in air and fire, and neither of those weapon/element combinations have anything to do with group support, or any synergy at all with the tempest traits or WH.

Not only should you be able to cast spells while overloading, but those spells themselves should be able to take advantage of the fact that the element is overloaded – i.e, some power boost while casting a fire spell, +condition in earth, etc.

I agree with you. Auras and a few boons are not enough in the way of damage mitigation to be able to give up the defenses that you mentioned.

I was trying to figure out the purpose of swiftness on overload – I guess if someone is trying to run away from your fire or air overload, then you’d be able to catch up? (Water no one would run away from, and earth would slow them down enough that you don’t need swiftness). Seems like a total waste. We need at least a trait option (if not inherent) of a breakbar on all overloads.

The problem with the water overload is that if I need a big heal/cleanse, then I need it now…not 5-10 seconds from now

I agree with pretty much everything you posted. It’s funny, a few others (myself included) actually feel the that the water field moved too quickly. But besides that I agree with you. It’s worth mentioning at every opportunity that Rebound is just awful.

Rivindor.7258:

We can just as well pretend the spec doesn’t even exist and all will be good.

This isn’t the point. After three years of the same weapons and skills, it would be nice to have something new for a change that is usable.

1. Should only apply to your next skill that has a greater than 30 (if not 45) second recharge.

2. Should be a 50% recharge.

Honestly, I don’t even think the elite makes any sense at all for a tempest, especially outside of the most competitive PvP environments. These changes are assuming that the skill is not going to be completely replaced, which I would greatly prefer.

It is intentional, the point is you are ‘charging it up’ for 5 seconds.

Besides that, you cannot dodge, you cannot cast any other spells, and I’m not even convinced that the damage output is higher than what you could’ve done without overloading. I agree that it is high risk, low reward. It doesn’t make any sense.

These skills do basically the same thing – fire field in a line in front of you. Why do we need both?

Sunshine.5014:

It definitely has less survivability too. Group support in both PvP and PvE are lacking. Tempest doesn’t provide support, it’s the warhorn that provides support. I wish we can take Warhorn without having to take Tempest.

I agree with you on that, too. It’s unfortunate because the arcane line is STILL required for vigor on crit. Tempest line has vigor on water but that seems like a waste to go into the attunement just for vigor, and honestly makes no sense for that traitline.

It wasn’t designed to be the highest DPS build. The question that we should be asking is, in terms of group support, survivability, and damage, is this on par with the other builds we have? So far I don’t believe that the damage loss is worth the minimal gains (if any) in the other two areas. Maybe it is because the jungle is harder than previous areas, but it almost feels as though taking the tempest line results in even less survivability than before, with clearly less damage.

Having said that, I agree with your second point.

SchmendrickTheMagician.8247:

And of course he’s using resto signet + full cantrips BECAUSE ELES DON’T HAVE ANY OTHER VIABLE SKILLS. Alas Arenanet doesn’t seem to care at all for ele build variety.

Also, every single time he used an overload it either was completely useless (pityful damage with pityful range in fire, pityful healing in water) or he got instantly knocked out of if, as is to be expected. And he only used like 4 or 5 overloads over the whole game… such a dumb and boring mechanic.

I don’t understand how a breakbar for all attunements isn’t either baseline for the tempest or at the very least a grandmaster trait.

I always was under the impression that a glassy damage-oriented melee range build should always outdamage a ranged build, not only because of risk/reward, but also because AoE weapons like staff would generally do less damage to each individual target than a single target weapon. Why is it, then, that staff is clearly the best source of damage?

Additionally, on a somewhat related note, will a warhorn tempest’s melee range support balance out what we are sacrificing in damage?

Kidel.2057:

Insane and gamebreaking. Pulsing area blind? What the… and that huge fire field? How long does it last? You can blast it like 6 times alone.

WP is going to be happy, but those are serious issues. Ele is already the strongest class, so those things are going to provoke a ele nerf or a buff of all the other classes (maybe after a couple of years…), both bad things.

If classes are too strong, content is not fun.

I agree with the poster that said the Ele is the strongest class, but that is based on one very one dimensional build that may or may not still be relevant once HoT and especially the challenging group content comes out.

Kidel.2057:

Insane and gamebreaking. Pulsing area blind? What the… and that huge fire field? How long does it last? You can blast it like 6 times alone.

WP is going to be happy, but those are serious issues. Ele is already the strongest class, so those things are going to provoke a ele nerf or a buff of all the other classes (maybe after a couple of years…), both bad things.

If classes are too strong, content is not fun.

Thief basically has perma-blind and so does Guardian (at least in PvE)

A few skills are blatantly ‘structured PvP only’ -

Earth Warhorn #4 – 2 extra seconds means nothing in PvE.

Elite skill – there are enough other posts explaining what is wrong with this skill.

A specialization should be, well, specialized. The problem is that this seems to be another ‘jack of all trades’ instead of fulfilling a specific role.

rhodoc.2381:

Please somebody tell me this also works for ele itself?

Shouts always work on yourself.

Xillllix.3485:

The Great Al.2546:

Laraley.7695:

Silky.8574:

Does it simply make the next skill that’s used recharge faster?
So without coordination, if you use it in a regular group, everyone’s using the Autoattack Skill #1. Anyone else see a problem with this?
Even in a coordinated group: “Everyone STOP attacking for a second, Imma blow my elite skill, so make sure you use it well!”

Yeah, I think that will be the issue. Unless you’re sitting with the person in the same room, it will be hard to coordinate something like this.

Even if you are the most coordinated team in the world, the problem with this is that the skill that you are going to want to have a faster recharge, is probably something like a situational twitch-based skill, like a cantrip. The need for that has to be driven by someone else – so for me to say, ‘hey I am in trouble, I need to use my cantrip’, and then for you to use the reduced CD elite, and then for me to actually use the cantrip – that will never work.

It’s going to be either:
A. Wasted entirely on AA’s.
B. For the player that actually notices it, use some high CD skill that they otherwise wouldn’t have even bothered or needed to use in the situation.

To make this a truly elite spell, this has to be 50% recharge, and not proc’d until the effected player triggers a skill with a 60s+ cooldown. I can’t even imagine how this could be useful otherwise.

The more I think about it the more it seems like it won’t work well. Basically you won’t use your elite until you feel really pressured into going into mist form, and even then, will you need a second mistform asap 45 seconds later?

The buff is too small, it should let you cast a skill twice in a row like in Guild Wars 1, and then perhaps buff teammates by 25%.

Anyway, nobody uses stuff as soon as it is on cooldown except in PvE.

I agree with you, because I’ve leveled up 5 classes to 80 and I can’t think of a situation (in PvE) where I REALLY need a skill to recharge a little faster – except at times a few of the defensive Ele utilities that have ridiculous cooldowns – but like you said, who knows if you will even need it in 45 seconds? Dare I say, for an elite, this should actually give your next skill 0 cooldown – but I’m not familiar enough with a few classes to know if this would truly break anything.

Getting downed once or twice an hour isn’t a big deal. I started with staff, then moved to d/d when I didn’t feel like kiting anymore.

Laraley.7695:

Silky.8574:

Does it simply make the next skill that’s used recharge faster?
So without coordination, if you use it in a regular group, everyone’s using the Autoattack Skill #1. Anyone else see a problem with this?
Even in a coordinated group: “Everyone STOP attacking for a second, Imma blow my elite skill, so make sure you use it well!”

Yeah, I think that will be the issue. Unless you’re sitting with the person in the same room, it will be hard to coordinate something like this.

Even if you are the most coordinated team in the world, the problem with this is that the skill that you are going to want to have a faster recharge, is probably something like a situational twitch-based skill, like a cantrip. The need for that has to be driven by someone else – so for me to say, ‘hey I am in trouble, I need to use my cantrip’, and then for you to use the reduced CD elite, and then for me to actually use the cantrip – that will never work.

It’s going to be either:
A. Wasted entirely on AA’s.
B. For the player that actually notices it, use some high CD skill that they otherwise wouldn’t have even bothered or needed to use in the situation.

To make this a truly elite spell, this has to be 50% recharge, and not proc’d until the effected player triggers a skill with a 60s+ cooldown. I can’t even imagine how this could be useful otherwise.

I would think that just having a fire elemental doing random amounts of damage, would do more damage than having a few seconds knocked off meteor shower.

The only way I can see this being used is if it doesn’t trigger until the affected player uses a skill with a 60 second or greater cool down. Otherwise this will be 95% wasted on auto attacks.

TorsoReaper.8530:

Thanks for the quick reply, I remember using staff in WvW but I found it pretty boring. I guess in the meantime I’ll run some low level stuff to get back the feel of the game and hopefully I’ll figure out the specialization changes through osmosis once I remember what I’m doing.

I agree that it is boring. It seems like the optimal ‘rotation’ is just to stay in Fire, with AAs, and #2 and #3 when they are off cooldown.

Hopefully with the elite spec, there will be other alternatives to the staff, but unfortunately an offhand weapon doesn’t solve the horrific AAs of the scepter.

For PvE (and probably all other game modes at this point), I think the general opinion is zerker staff is the best build, and got even better with the specialization changes. I don’t remember when or why that surpassed stacking might + LH.

nearlight.3064:

Taldren.7523:

rapthorne.7345:

Given that we have precident of ANet utilising weapons differently on different classes (Necro Axe, Mesmer Greatsword, Ranger Axe, etc), why is there so much hate for Wh when we don’t even have a clue what it will do yet, and Anet said any class that just gets an offhand will also be getting new mechanics added.

Because Scepter sucks and its just another Dagger + X combo. We are forced into the same 12 abilities that every elementalist has used exclusively since launch day.

Also, an offhand gives us 8 new abilities … a main hand would have given us 12.

12 new skills is also way more weapon skills than any other spec has received so far and is likely to recieve. 8 is fine considering when reaper got 10, chrono got 2, so.. I fail to see how number of new abilities is a compelling argument in anyway?

Number of abilities is not a compelling argument, but the fact that this isn’t a main hand weapon is a disappointment. The mainhand weapon defines the style of the build.

Dagger offhand already has some pbAOE spells (both earth spells come to mind, and ring of fire could count, too). It will probably be group might, group cleanses, etc. Based on the recent reveals, it looks like reflect is the new dodge, so I’m sure there will be a reflect as well. Probably very party support oriented.

Nyx.1256:

The Great Al.2546:

Thanks for the feedback. Is there any relationship at all between the day and the night events? I.e. does the difficulty of the night event change depending on the success of the events during the day?

Hey, in a way yes, but nothing that seemed too significant. It seemed that the better we did during the day cycle, the more rally points we started off with when the night cycle began (so therefore the less rally points we had to capture to begin with). However, the rally points were lost really easily since a lot of people (especially in this second block) just completely tuned out and stopped bothering with the night events. They could also be captured back just as easily though which makes the whole efforts during the day cycle seem a little insignificant :/ But maybe that was just me.

Thanks again! That’s a little disappointing. For some reason I was picturing it almost like a tower defense where you spend the day doing events ‘preparing’ your defenses/offenses etc, and then the success/strategy of the night depended on that. Maybe I was just hoping it would be like that :P

Hearts never bothered me during my first level up, but on subsequent playthroughs they were a drag. Having said that, I still like the main open world better than the silverwastes and dry top

Thanks for the feedback. Is there any relationship at all between the day and the night events? I.e. does the difficulty of the night event change depending on the success of the events during the day?

Would love to see Ele/Thief with some stealth mechanics, but how would that fit into a ‘Tempest’ theme?

I have been roaming the silverwastes/dry top on my Ele. In group events, Staff is an obvious choice. When I am just running around and soloing against 1 enemy at a time, I find that I am not getting much DPS out of my staff. Am I really just supposed to stay in fire and use 2 when off cooldown and 1? What are some other tips to maximize DPS against a single target when using staff?

Thanks!

I agree that your concern is a valid one but I think that ANet is going to make a conscious effort to ensure that this doesn’t happen. I have a feeling that at least for this profession, the Chronomancer will be more or less required over a mesmer for dungeon runs.

This is all speculation – I don’t think the requirements will increase, but I think the new areas will perform similar to how Dry Top and Silverwastes perform today – maybe not quite as intensive as WvW, but much worse than most of the open world. The more people that you are running around with, the worse the performance will be.

By the time you unlock the entire circle, does it even matter where the original start and end was?

I have thought all along that Evasive Arcana should just be an inherent trait of every elementalist. I think it’s too vital to a large percentage of players.

Will the new healing, utility, and elite skills synergize with the new Elite Specialization trait line to the point that when selecting the Elite Specialization, we will almost always want to select the new skills in our 6-10 slots? Or will the existing utility skills still be viable with the Elite Specialization?

My guess would be that maybe we unlock passive (non-stat) bonuses that are specific to each line. For example, Maybe when you are 1/3 through unlocking the Arcane line, you get your Attunement swap recharge down, then maybe 2/3 will give <some other bonus, maybe boon direction> and at 3/3 you will get some other passive bonus.