Guild Wars 2

haviz.1340:

Xae Isareth.1364:

I don’t really see how the trinity can solve anything. In fact, the trinity will just remove the possible potential for any if it to be solved.

By linearising roles, it won’t be the players finding zerking to be the best way to tackle everything (although I still don’t agree with that), it would be the game itself forcing everyone down a particular route.

Support = Healing and that’s what we need. More and better healing.

Support is not limited to healing. Not by a long shot.

Support is also helping your team do what they do best, either by buffing them or debuffing the enemy, and also helping to prevent damage.

Azreell.1568:

Justdeifyme.9387:

So I just came back after 6 month rage quit break (The stalemate that Guild Wars 2 was in made me mad) and I see that we’re still in a stalemate.

Welp, this game had a lot of potential, guess I have to hope in Everquest Next to deliver.

The problem is so many posters on this forum want to keep reinventing the wheel and fail to realize it was never broken.

Just because the wheel isn’t broken, doesn’t mean it can’t be improved.

After all, wooden wheels were mostly replaced by wheels with inner tubing and treads.

With some things, yes (hunting for traits, for example), while other things no (largely temp content).

Mostly, i’ll be reserving judgement until I see the rest of the intended changes.

If someone equips two 2-handers, they’ll be in the exact same position as someone who equips four 1-handers. After all, both players will still have access to 4 sigil slots total.

As for swapping out weapons, I personally don’t think it’s right that you could build up a bonus and then swap the weapons out. It kind of defeats the point in having to make a choice if you can do that.

Rambodacious.7495:

That being said, this upcoming “balance” patch wont solve the problems even if they are introducing a soft trinity. Why? Because PvE mobs are SO BORING.

When I ran my first dungeon, I couldn’t believe it was really me swinging my sword for 5 minutes while the bosses auto-attacked for eleventy billion.

Implementing a holy trinity is step one. A MASSIVE overhaul of AI is step two.

I fail to see how implementing the trinity is a ‘new’ idea, but maybe that’s just me.

With improved AI (i.e. giving mobs the exact same tools as players[skills, traits, runes, sigils, ect], reducing burst damage and increacing frequency of smaller hits), and implementing and actually enforcing encounter mechanics (as opposed to allowing them to be bruteforced with damage), the current system could work.

Xae Isareth.1364:

Did Anet ever mention that there was supposed to be a control/DPS/support trinity?

From the way I feel from doing Fractals, the endgame was supposed to have you supporting, controlling, and DPSing at the same time, and roles were supposed to be dictated by what the encounter involves and what classes you have in your party.

“Each profession can support, control, and do damage. We believe that this creates more dynamic combat and more distinct professions because there are more play styles than roles.”

Source

Balance and encounter issues aside, I don’t think they wanted to shoehorn players into a specific builds, evidenced by:

• Weapon and Skill Swapping – You could carry a mixture of damage, control and support.
• Traits – Again, you can mix and match your traits to invest heavily in one thing, or diversify into two lines.

My first Warrior build sacrificed a bit of damage to bring some control in the form of Hammer and Leg Specialist for when situations got hairy.

Uh? On mine it’s still showing as today.

Edit: Nevermind, Windows is being dumb -.-

Maybe for localisation? That’s usually been the reason for delayed posts.

Firstly, I’d say that the current Orders that we’re a part of should be fleshed out:

• IMO, they missed something when implementing the Personal Story. Instead of gaining a rank every, say, 3 PS steps, they could have put ranks in, with the PS being unlocked as you hit the apporpriate rank. These ranks could then have translated into unlocking vendors, titles, skill skins (For example, Warrior Banners could display the Order emblem, while the Thief elite could summon 2 agents from the order) ect.

• Order Missions – Not neccessarily daily, but maybe randomised (so you’re requested on a ‘as needed’ basis)? To add the extra RP element, maybe even lose ranks if you fail to attempt x number of missions in a row, with a system that allows you to suspend this if you’re not going to be playing for a few weeks / months for whatever reason.

As it is, the PS makes a big deal out of you becoming part of an Order, and yet it has no link to you outside of the PS itself, apart from being able to buy the Order specific armour and weapons.

Linnea.5146:

Honestly, I don’t think it’s something as big as new weapon sets. I think it’s more something along the lines of fixing account-/ soulbound issues.

But surely that would come under ‘Account Bound’?

digiowl.9620:

Jack of all trades, master of none? Except that straight up distilled DPS trumps all…

As long as encounter design doesn’t require people to use control and support elements, dps will always trump all.

However, if you had an encounter that, say, required you to immobilise an enemy, you sacrifising a bit of damage to contribute to that mechanic will be just as helpful as simply damaging the enemy.

Xae Isareth.1364:

TheDaiBish.9735:

Adding to this, can you truly say something has failed before the full potential of the system has been realised?

The kind of problem here is that I can see a lot of people not seeing any chance of this potential being ever realised.

The trinity is bad. I absolutely despise it and I think GW2 made a good decision in getting rid of it. But it does seem a bit halfway sometimes.

Things like Defiance still being there and rendering the use of any CC pointless, fixed weapon skills and slow implementation of much-needed new traits and skills to diversify builds can really make it seem like the dev team has no idea what they’re doing.

Often it just seems like the dev team has this whack-a-mole style of experimentation, where they can be creative and innovative, but just implements whatever idea that comes into their head in the morning, without really any long-term structure or goal.

I get what you mean.

In terms of new traits and skills, however, I’d say it’s largely pointless to introduce these without also introduce content that makes use of them. Otherwise we’re still going to be stuck with the Zerker meta we have now.

Xae Isareth.1364:

For example, it’s unrelated to the trinity but Majory and Kasmeer being a lesbian couple is ….. creative (?) but just doesn’t fit into the genre of the game… at all. And judging by how every thread that mentioned it was closed for inappropriateness, they didn’t really seem to know what they’re doing.

I didn’t actually get to play most of the end (was laid up with a kittened arm), but I’m not sure what you mean about a lesbian couple not fitting in with the genre.

Knaifhogg.5964:

TheDaiBish.9735:

Things that come to my mind:

• Opening other weapons to other classes
• Opening new skills for weapons i.e
• Multiclassing
• Removing armour restrictions for classes
• Swappable stats/sigils/runes ect on weapons and armour.
• Condition Cap fix
• Guesting to other regions
• Diminishing returns removed

Well now you’ve just increased the potential of these two words to a ridiculous level. Everybody will find something to be disappointed about.

They were just things that come to mind, not what I actually think it will include (which, tbh, I don’t know what to expect).

digiowl.9620:

I think the problem of control is twofold.

1. Most of the control effects are tuned for SPVP rather than PVE. End result is that you have to stack the hell out of them to gain the CC that most games grant you with one or two skills. Just observe the PVP panic once ANet allowed immobilize to stack in duration, and they found engineers to be a stacking machine via net turret and rifle.

2. How easily a accidental control can refresh a whole defiant stack. This because various skills have a almost cosmetic control effect added on top of its damage.

3. Also, body blocking may have been a thing if one could actually obstruct the movement of mobs. But i have seen time and again mobs run right through zergs because for some reason their aggro has flagged some straggler with a ranged weapon as THE target to attack. Only to have the very same mob take one or two swings at their target before doing a 180 and go right back into the zerg.

And the spiky nature of mob DPS makes body blocking not really worth it. Either the target can take the hit no problem, or anyone taking the hit ends up downed. Meaning that body blocking will result in someone having to be rescued from down state no matter what.

4. Support on the other hand suffers from blandness. The protection from a support guardian and a zerker guardian only differs in how long it lasts. Meaning is that support is not something you can really build for.

1. I’d say the reason for this is because, even in PvE, combat is ‘faster paced’, if you will, than a traditional MMO. In the ideal encounter, you’re not simply being aware of your role, but your team-mates as well. Long CC durations would slow this pace down, coupled with Defiant being removed, would mean we’d simply move from a zerk meta to a stunlock-zerk meta.

Ideally, CC would be a tool to:

• Help team-mates that are struggling
• Interrupt big attacks.

IMO, shorter durations with longer cooldowns are better for this than stupidly long durations. At least by default.

Maybe make it so that if the use of the skill meets a condition, then the CC duration is increased? For example, if the foe is Weakened, then Backbreaker (Warrior Hammer 5) knocks the target down for 4 seconds, as opposed to 2, or . Bear in mind, this is an example, not an actual suggestion for the skill

This rewards the player with longer CC for appropriate use of the skill, rather than simply spamming the skill.

2. Unfortunately, yes.

I’d say a solution to this would be rework Defiant so that

• it decays at a set rate
• Defiant isn’t triggered if you interrupt an attack.

Maybe have modifiable skills as well? For example, Wild Blow on Backbreaker would increase the damage, but it’d lose the CC effect, while Unstoppable Force reduces the damage but increases the duration of the CC. This way, players have more freedom as to what weapons they want to use, while not having to worry about triggering Defiant for the CCer.

Of course, this doesn’t have to be limited to CC skills (for example, maybe there’d be a modifier that increases the range of an AoE, but reduces damage / duration), it’d also open up more customization.

3. In terms of body-blocking, I meant getting in the way of projectiles sort of thing (which is currently in the game).

On the subject of mob DPS however, yeah, this should be altered: smaller hits more frequently, more variety, and give AI the same tools as players including traits, runes, sigils, weapon swapping ect.

4. I’d say the reasons for low durations, both on CC and Support, is that ANet didn’t want people to build purely for a specific ‘role’, but rather build to go with the flow of the fight (i.e Hybrid).

I used to run a Greatsword / Hammer Warrior on out first dungeon runs (way back when the game was new and there wasn’t a zerk meta). I sacrificed some of my damage for Control in the form of Hammer and Leg Specialist. I’d Immobilise groups of trash for my team to burst down without them getting close, and when it come to boss fights, I’d use GS. If someone went down / was in a bit of trouble, I’d break out the Hammer, knock the boss away and Immobilise them.

On the other hand, my mate built his Warrior focusing on Support (bear in mind support doesn’t only mean protecting others, but also helping them do what they do best). He built Banners / Shouts (depending on the situation), Longbow and Sword and Warhorn.

Given the level we were, I feel that if we went in simply trying to smash things in the face, we’d have had more problems.

To finish off, I’d say while the combat system has flaws (Defiant, Combo System), I’d say it’s encounter design either having a lack of mechanics, or not enforcing them mechanics enough so that players can simply brute-force them, that’s the cause of lack of build diversity.

Things that come to my mind:

• Opening other weapons to other classes
• Opening new skills for weapons i.e
• Multiclassing
• Removing armour restrictions for classes
• Swappable stats/sigils/runes ect on weapons and armour.
• Condition Cap fix
• Guesting to other regions
• Diminishing returns removed

I don’t particularly agree with the ’don’t question before you play’, but I would say wait until they revealed the rest of the patch.

For all we know, the Ferocity change might tie in with another change that will benefit the game.

nGumball.1283:

It is quite interesting to see how uneducated the community is. ‘’The concep failed, there is no innovation’’. Since when was innovation measured with the end-results and from where did you learn that experiements always have to succeed?

Adding to this, can you truly say something has failed before the full potential of the system has been realised?

Blood Red Arachnid.2493:

I’ve mentioned defiance before. The best solution I’ve heard to the problem is to have defiance automatically remove itself over time. Like, if you get 5 stacks of defiance, then every 2 seconds a stack is removed. Stacks can also be removed by CC.

I’d say increase the decay time, but defiance doesn’t trigger if you interrupt a big attack.

Lalangamena.3694:

Nick.6972:

Trinity was removed and wasn’t replaced.

it wasn’t really removed, they just removed two thirds of the trinity roles to be available to players.

they left the DPS role to played by the players.
walls and pillars play the tank role.
dodges, blocks and going out of combat are doing healers role.
thats why the game is boring.
they TOLD, they removed the trinity. the didn’t. so playerbase had to work around it.

Both wrong.

Tanking is now Control, and this comes in two forms; damage control (Weakness, Hard CC, body blocking projectiles) and movement control (Cripple, Immobilize, Chill, Hard CC).
DPS, no matter what game with combat in, will always be DPS.
Healing is now Support, whether that be helping prevent your allies from dying (Aegis, Protection, Regen, Reviving, Condition Removal) or helping them do their job (Might, Fury, Swiftness).

The main difference between this system and the Trinity is that the Trinity is made up of dedicated roles, wheras in GW2, while you can build your character to specialise, you aren’t simply in one role.

When me an my friends first did dungeons at level appropriate (and this was before AC got nerfed, right at the beginning), I had a hybrid Damage/Control Warrior. I’d use a Greatsword most of the time, and then bring out a Hammer if things were getting a bit dicey. I had 10 points in Tactics for Leg Specialist, since GS and Hammer both have cripples. That’s how I’d initiate; immobilizing packs so some of the ranged could get a few shots off, then switch to GS. If someone went down, I’d switch to hammer, knock them away and immobilise them, giving others time to get the downed person back up..

However, the current issue with the system is the fact that the content doesn’t really utilise the Control and Support aspects, not that they removed tanking and healing as you know it.

Azreell.1568:

TheDaiBish.9735:

Well, that particular fight has been in since the beginning. I remember first doing it at level 30, when we done it ‘as intended’, so to speak.

Besides, it was more an example of how the flaw isn’t with the combat system, but the encounter design not utilising the combat system.

As for moving towards a proven system, I’d rather not go back to the times where you’re locked into one role for all content. I’d much prefer if they built the roles into the encounters. Much more diversity that way.

How has the Living Story aka LS Knight encounter been in since the beginning? That was the most recent encounter introduced to GW2.

Also, We have yet to see any diversity in terms of roles in this game. In the end all GW2 did is trade one trinity for another.

I hate to break it to you but how Different in Tank, Healer, DPS vs the Zerk Meta trinity?

Here is a hint – it’s not.

This patch will not change the meta. It will make the zerk meta go from desired to required. When you do a global player dps nerf – people are used to killing things at a certain speed. Content will not take longer to kill. In saying that – Do you think people will not be more willing for off specs? No, They won’t the will not require zerk gear to try and make up for what they lost.

Where am I arguing against you? If anything, we agree with each other, if you read what I’m saying.

The Lover’s fight, if the mechanics were enforced, would require players to use the Control element of combat, and not simply DPS.

Azreell.1568:

TheDaiBish.9735:

Azreell.1568:

The snore fest that is GW2’s current combat mechanics of pew pew as hard as you can and chain rez the downed is obviously getting old for many people from what I have seen in current server pops. The game is only based of DPS currently and that unfortunately leaves a very large % of possibly players out.

Totally disagree.

It isn’t so much a fault with the combat mechanics as the encounter mechanics not requiring the depth of the current combat system, or the encounter mechanics not being enforced so they can simply be brute-forced.

For example, The Lover’s in AC is the perfect example.

The main mechanic being you need to keep them away from each other, if this mechanic was enforced properly, you’d need control (both hard and soft) as well as damage, not to mention awareness of your team-mates.

Players will always find the path of least resistance.

That is the developers fault for designing a one dimensional game.

People brute force because that is the rule set Anet keeps giving us. Once again look at the LS knights encounter for proof.

I applaud Anet for taking the chance and moving things a bit closer to a much more proven system.

Well, that particular fight has been in since the beginning. I remember first doing it at level 30, when we done it ‘as intended’, so to speak.

Besides, it was more an example of how the flaw isn’t with the combat system, but the encounter design not utilising the combat system.

As for moving towards a proven system, I’d rather not go back to the times where you’re locked into one role for all content. I’d much prefer if they built the roles into the encounters. Much more diversity that way.

KarateKid.5648:

Malchor’s Leap – near a Temple of Dwayna, I believe. Guarded by some trash, a vet, and then a teleporting-outta-nowhere Champion Risen Knight.

Any suggestions for soling this one as a Norn Ele?

I never knew how tough this one was, as my Thief just stealthed and walked out with not so much as a paper cut.

It won’t aggro on summons, and it hits for like 30k+ on a failed dodge. Even with dodge, it’s a matter of a few (15-20?) seconds before he recharges that skill.

My last SP in that region and it’s frustrating the snot outta me.

Are you on EU? If you are, I don’t mind jumping on to help you

Azreell.1568:

The snore fest that is GW2’s current combat mechanics of pew pew as hard as you can and chain rez the downed is obviously getting old for many people from what I have seen in current server pops. The game is only based of DPS currently and that unfortunately leaves a very large % of possibly players out.

Totally disagree.

It isn’t so much a fault with the combat mechanics as the encounter mechanics not requiring the depth of the current combat system, or the encounter mechanics not being enforced so they can simply be brute-forced.

For example, The Lover’s in AC is the perfect example.

The main mechanic being you need to keep them away from each other, if this mechanic was enforced properly, you’d need control (both hard and soft) as well as damage, not to mention awareness of your team-mates.

Harper.4173:

Nike.2631:

That’s NOT going to change. What’s going to change (hopefully) is that challenges will incorporate enough elements that no single build can cover all of them effectively – so that group content will demand a certain degree of diversity. Again we see signs – the hologram fight features a segment that favored melee, a segment that favored range, and a segment the absolutely demanded conditions.

You must not have played GW1. What you’re describing was the case there. There was no one build that could do all content ( at least not for one profession – excepting permasin and spirit rits).

The problem with this situation you’re describing is that you’ll now be forced into playing roles that you might not want to play.
Serious groups will demand that you play build x for class y which are the meta for that encounter. Sure – other encounters will require other builds for your class but ultimately you’ll be forced into roles just like people feel forced into zerker today.

And the funny thing is that with the new trait system new players might not have the optimal traits to roll that build making them even less desirable to have in a party.

Ideally, if / when they go down this route, they’ll make it so players don’t have to completely change their build, rather simply modify it. Maybe swap a skill / trait or two out.

For example, if you need to apply Immobilise to stop the boss building up stacks of a buff that increases damage. Warriors could simply change one utility out for Throw Bola and put 10 points in Tactics for Leg Specialist. It doesn’t change the fundamental build all that much (since you still got the 30 points in whatever lines you want, and you’re still using the weapons and most of the skills), but it does require you to adapt a bit to the situation.

Slightly off topic, but this is also the point of Horizontal Progression in the form of gaining skills and such. If there isn’t content that doesn’t require you to think about how to use your toolset, then that type of progression is pointless.

Quarktastic.1027:

MrDmajor.7084:

Hey guys, I just spent $1000 on gems. Check out my new axe skin.

Sick axe bro. But what are you playing on, a potato?

Judging from the graphics, it’s probably the latest P-Tato 930XGT XTreme (Xtreme with an X – that’s how XTreme it is)

Elegie.3620:

Yargesh.4965:

How exactly? They could be bought from day 1. That they are given as a reward for an international tournament debases them for you is a little strange.

Legendary weapons could not be bought from day 1, far from it. They could only be crafted, hence the special meaning that they held.

Regards.

But a player didn’t have to craft them. They could have bought them off of the TP. For people like that, chances are the weapon itself doesn’t mean anything special.

Here’s some food for thought: Surely the meaning behind the weapon comes from the effort you put into it, and not it simply being special because it’s called a Legendary? Just as the meaning for the weapon for you comes from the effort, the meaning from them 5 winners will come from the fact they had to win.

Copenhagen.7015:

Trinity or not, nothing is viable in PvE except for damage. This was a huge issue for players that liked to play support/healing/tank roles in other games. There is almost no strategy involved at all. This is why I quit playing. I did not see the need to improve my personal skill when the game was so face roll. This balance needs to happen.

You’re confusing ‘viable’ with ‘optimal’.

If you got a group of like-minded people together, you could build your character to focus on support and control. Go to AC story mode, and take 2 control characters to actually do the mechanic of keeping them apart, for example.

However, since they said from the beginning there’d be no dedicated healer or tank, I don’t see how these would be issues for the players who like to play these roles.

eye floater.7140:

Anet has started to realize that there’s not enough build diversity, so they nerfed crit damage a bit and are starting to buff survival and healing skills for almost every class(including the extra healing skill given to everyone some time ago). I just don’t see this whole lack of the trinity idea ever really working that well.

I personally think the issue isn’t with the actual lack of pre-defined roles, but the actual content itself not utilising the entirety of the system in place (outside of a few mechanics that need tweaking i.e. Defiant).

In the place of removing these strict roles, roles themselves could be built into the encounters, allowing for more diversity. Rather than looking at Contol, Support and Damage as actual roles, I think they should be looked at as aspects of combat, used to design encounters, and not as a rigid requirement for group composition.

For example, compare the roles you’d use in the Lover’s fight in AC to the Effigy in CoF (if the encounters worked as intended). In Lover’s, you’d need two groups and heavy CC to keep them away from each other, while in CoF, you’d need one person specifically to destroy the crystals.

eye floater.7140:

Honestly, I think a LOT of players would be happy if the trinity got reinstated somehow, or slowly implemented.

I could also see a lot of players not being happy with the Trinity being implemented.

Dark Catalyst.1028:

Anything regarding the intro earth elemental stuff is irrelevant as most people think that that part of the zone is okay. After that, however, quality plummets. I’ve talked to plenty of npcs as well, but I stopped. Why? Because most of them have nothing important to say.

Your examples are just descriptors and little blurbs. That’s not story.

What’s you’re definition of a story then?

Contrary to belief, you don’t need a novel to tell a story. Them little blurbs go together to tell a story of their own. For example, the Temple of Ages:

Legend has it that time itself originated from the Temple of Ages. It predates the oldest memories of Tyria. However, the Temple was destroyed during the rising of Orr. The Temple is the oldest remaining monument to the Six that scholars know of.

As the place was the place that the Six God’s answered their last prayer, people are studying it in the hopes of discovering why the Six left Tyria and have been silent.

In the past, the Temple served as a way for heroes to travel to the Underworld. However, this travel weakened the barrier, and so the denizens of Underworld now push through portals that form, making it difficult to research.

Even the orchard has a small backstory attached to it:

Farmer Eda needs help, because her husband was killed by centaurs as he was taking a shipment of apples to Beetletun. Since her husband was the one who used to harvest the apples, the orchard has become infested with spiders.

Regardless of what you believe, or the quality, these are still stories.

Dark Catalyst.1028:

TheDaiBish.9735:

Dark Catalyst.1028:

What’s the Queendale theme, then, other than “champ train?”

Queensdale is the ‘breadbasket’ of Kryta, in that they supply most of the food for the nation (evident through a number of Hearts and events being based around helping and protecting farmlands).

It’s where the Humans have decided to fort up and make a stand against any enemies, shown by it being the location of Divinity’s Reach.

Godslost Swamp, in particular, has seen a breakthrough from creatures of the Underworld, possibly caused by the Temple of Ages being destroyed when Orr rose.

I could go on, if you like?

That’s interesting. Too bad it’s so poorly told through just playing the game. You know what I remember from questing through there? “Help me tend my farm” “check these traps” and “get our supplies from a cave”. What you said is still minimal for a what? 1-17 zone?

My first sentence is pretty much word for word what the first scout said after you finish the Earth Elemental encounter, which is also available for the other Races.

If you talk to the Scouts, they give you a general back story, where a lot of the NPC’s will tell you why you’re helping them.

As for Godslost, the Heart NPC says: Heroes once visited the temple to travel to Underworld, which weakened the barrier. Now portals between the two worlds can form. The portals, and the creatures from them, must be fought physically.

While the Scout says: These monks and their theological teachings have been … insightful, but the real secrets are yet to be revealed in the Godslost Swamp. Where else but the ruined Temple of the Ages would we learn what truly became of the Six Gods? We should have the answer already; unfortunately, progress has been slowed by those rifts to the Underworld.

Finally, even the Skill Point in Godslost gives a little insight: A mystical structure predating the oldest memories of Tyria, the Temple of the Ages’ ruins course with an ancient and unyielding power. It’s said time itself originated from this sacred place.

All this is known in-game if you talk to the NPC’s (after all, aren’t Hearts just poorly disguised quests?), and not simply do the Hearts without speaking to them. It’s there for people who want the story

As for it being minimal? Yes, it is. It was more of an example how wrong you are that there’s no lore or story to the zones and such, and less of a total breakdown on the entire story of Queensdale.

Dark Catalyst.1028:

What’s the Queendale theme, then, other than “champ train?”

Queensdale is the ‘breadbasket’ of Kryta, in that they supply most of the food for the nation (evident through a number of Hearts and events being based around helping and protecting farmlands).

It’s where the Humans have decided to fort up and make a stand against any enemies, shown by it being the location of Divinity’s Reach.

Godslost Swamp, in particular, has seen a breakthrough from creatures of the Underworld, possibly caused by the Temple of Ages being destroyed when Orr rose.

I could go on, if you like?

Dark Catalyst.1028:

Lots of dishonesty here. I just don’t think it’s possible to have a discussion with liars or with people who claim that things which increase the power of your character are irrelevant.

OP: hearts are just poorly disguised traditional quests if the worst kind with no story behind them. Entire zones don’t have any story or lore to them either. It’s just a series of “help these people for no reason” nonsense.

Except zones, Hearts and DE’s do have stories and reasons behind them. You just choose not to acknowledge it.

While I’ll agree that some of the stories for these events and such aren’t very good, the same could be said for WoW quests as well.

Then again, I suppose it’s just not possible to have a discussion with liars.

Just like how they sold the new skills, runes, sigils on the gemstore, right?

While you may be right about the dyes, how you come to the conclusion that they’ll sell Traits on the store is beyond me.

NoTrigger.8396:

i mean guards or warriors can simply use a stacking sigill in the new 2-handed weapon slot. but eles and engis, thiefs, rangers and mesmer are pretty much kittened.

Engies and Eles are understandable, but how are the other professions kittened? Even if they use single handed weapons, they still get two sigils a weapon set.

SoPP.7034:

TheDaiBish.9735:

Even in GW1, you couldn’t do it outside of combat in an instance / match.

4 weapon combo slots were available in/out of combat and in an instance in GW1.

Yup. However, they didn’t make as much of a difference as your attribute points and skill set. Once you locked them (the skills and attribute points) in and entered the instance, you were stuck with them come hell or high water.

It wasn’t a case of you could run out of combat and switch to another skill and point load-out to deal with a situation, which is what Funk has concerns about.

I wouldn’t mind a template system though. Maybe make it so you have to channel the switch and keep still so it’s not a case you can just chase someone and switch to an appropriate build.

This patch isn’t meant to provide new content though, it that sense.

All in all, I’d say trait hunting is a ‘feature’, since it doesn’t exist in the game currently, and doesn’t so much as improve the player’s QoL (i.e. allowing to reset traits anywhere) as adds a new system to the game that can be built upon.

Nike.2631:

Nick.6972:

Great! They’re finally doing what they promised us back in 2010/2011? Trait hunting? Nice.

Link to promise?

By ‘promise’, he means ‘that blog they released during alpha before they changed how Traits would work’.

Dr Ritter.1327:

GrandmaFunk.3052:

Nay to hot swapping traits/skills/equipment, even out of combat.

everything else: would be nice.

did you even play GW1?

Even in GW1, you couldn’t do it outside of combat in an instance / match.

Yes, that’s Trait Points.

Trait Points =/= Skill Points.

Herr der Friedhoefe.2490:

TheDaiBish.9735:

You know, it’s entirely possible any of them things you’ve listed could still be in the patch.

So why not announce those things too?

(because they aren’t there…)

Or maybe, just maybe, they’re splitting up the posts on the contents of the patch, and not simply revealing everything at once?

Something you’d know if you actually read the blog and not simply assume the only thing they’re doing is revamping the Trait system.

https://www.guildwars2.com/en/the-game/releases/feature-packs/

Herr der Friedhoefe.2490:

Zypher.7609:

That you didn’t ask for.. but there have been many that have.

The only complaints I’ve seen about traits is the lack of presets. Don’t get me wrong, I like the idea of a minus button finally, and on the fly trait changes isn’t a bad thing. I’m just saying that there are so many other things must have a higher priority.

Account bound WxP for example.

You know, it’s entirely possible any of them things you’ve listed could still be in the patch.

The Commando class

Jokes aside, Killshot Warriors, while squishy, can do that.

Why are you concerned about skill points when they’re talking about Traits?

Palador.2170:

TheDaiBish.9735:

Unless they were introducing an Ubergrandmaster tier, I can’t see them adding two extra points.

I can easily see them doing that, though. Limit it to just one Uber per character, so you don’t have someone using two, and you’re good to go. The Ubers could even be something like “One extra trait from this trait line”, allowing you to grab that one extra trait that you had to skip to get the one you really wanted.

But surely if they were going to add that, they’d have said that in this blog post?

Palador.2170:

TheDaiBish.9735:

Palador.2170:

Paulytnz.7619:

Tbh I am wondering if this is all in aid of a possible incoming increase to lvl cap, that would certainly explain some of this..

That … would explain everything.

[Edit] In fact, it bothered me that the “every 6 levels” for a trait point didn’t work out to end on level 80. But if you carry it a bit further, you’ll see that it does end nicely on level 90.

It’s one point every 6 levels from 30 – 66, then 2 points up to 80.

You’ll start acquiring points at level 30, when the adept trait tier is unlocked, then you’ll earn one trait point every six levels until level 66, when you’ll start earning two trait points at a time.

30 – 1 pt
36 – 1 pt
42 – 1 pt
48 – 1 pt
54 – 1 pt
60 – 1 pt
66 – 2 pt
72 – 2 pt
78 – 2 pt

Total: 12 points.

To match our current trait allotment, they need to add in two extra points at level 80, breaking the pattern. However, if you continue on with the pattern:

84 – 2 pt
90 – 2 pt

Total: 16 points.

It’s a nice, even stopping point, and only 2 trait points more than the 14 we’ll be getting.

Hmm…but them extra two points would allow players to build two full trait lines and up to master on a third, since each point is now worth 5.

Unless they were introducing an Ubergrandmaster tier, I can’t see them adding two extra points.

Palador.2170:

Paulytnz.7619:

Tbh I am wondering if this is all in aid of a possible incoming increase to lvl cap, that would certainly explain some of this..

That … would explain everything.

[Edit] In fact, it bothered me that the “every 6 levels” for a trait point didn’t work out to end on level 80. But if you carry it a bit further, you’ll see that it does end nicely on level 90.

It’s one point every 6 levels from 30 – 66, then 2 points up to 80.

You’ll start acquiring points at level 30, when the adept trait tier is unlocked, then you’ll earn one trait point every six levels until level 66, when you’ll start earning two trait points at a time.

Two things to think about:

• Will they tweak the areas, given how there’ll less stats available?
• Will they be implementing China’s 1 – 30 experience (the only logical explanation for moving traits up to 30)?

Beldin.5498:

The question is, what exactly you have to do for that .. fine if it is all soloable, but would be bad if in the end you have to “buy” these skills maybe later from other players because you need to kill champs or do things in Dungeons that nobody else does anymore.

You can buy traits from a vendor, so if there’s a specific trait you want, but you don’t want to do that bit of content, you can still get it.

She dun goof’d.

Yeah, she was calling Mordremoth.

Mirta.5029:

TheDaiBish.9735:

Mirta.5029:

with the dyes being available only in the gem store and grind increasing it smells very much like China. I do not like this one bit. If they successfully implement everything they will lose me as a customer. Screw it, there are many other MMOs that I can be playing.

Where did they say that dyes will only be in the Gemstore now?

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Features-Patch-15-4-14/first

Read the Q/A. They are taking a really bad direction with the game.

Thanks for that.

Eh, yeah. Can’t say I agree with the unlocking skills by level, or the pulling of dyes (unless they add the ability to craft all colour dyes, and not just basic ones OR give the option to unlock the dye you want).

Mirta.5029:

with the dyes being available only in the gem store and grind increasing it smells very much like China. I do not like this one bit. If they successfully implement everything they will lose me as a customer. Screw it, there are many other MMOs that I can be playing.

Where did they say that dyes will only be in the Gemstore now?

Looking for Group – Improvements to the LFG thingy?
Removing Restrictions – Either opening up weapons / armour for all classes OR making Ascended have selectable stats?
A Solid Foundation – Player / Guild Housing? Or maybe changes to levelling / tutorial?

Shadow Blade.1324:

they could have just made you buy it through the UI like bagslots etc.

it may be that they sell guides like they do unlock books atm, but that doesn’t explain why they specifically mention getting the items in the world and not from a vendor

They’re giving players a choice on how to unlock the Traits:

• Through exploring and hunting them down
• Going to a vendor and buying them

As excited as we are to let players earn traits with feats of bravery and cunning, we know not everyone is the exploring or adventure type—which is why we’ve included the option for you to buy trait guides from profession trainers! The cost of current traits varies based on the tier of that trait. Newly added traits to the game will be set at a higher price point.

Healix.5819:

The new traits make it look like they’re creating a real clear separation between offense and defense. The elementalist’s trait is a typical healer’s skill for example.

… and then tomorrow they’re revealing “The Art of Combat” and “Critical!”

Perhaps big changes are coming.

Won’t the Critical! one be about the Ferocity changes? Or has that already been implemented?