Guild Wars 2

Ohoni.6057:

Well ill give up on raids having unique rewards when the unique pvp rewards are 10x easier to get, oh and the LS trinket items. Oh and the fractal items. etc etc etc. You get the point. Your NOT entitled to easly be able to get everything in the game.

Yeah, sure, let’s do all of that. Not a problem.

So you want a game where everything is given to you on a silver platter? Sad to say, this isn’t the game for you then if that’s what you want.

Lakanna.2073:

maddoctor.2738:

I think the examples people are giving are hardly on-topic anymore…

The best example on the topic is every other RPG ever released so far in gaming history, that doesn’t use a 100% pure random loot system. In every such RPG ever created, items are rewards behind content, very very specific content. Usually the hardest dungeons and the hardest bosses also have the best possible loot. That’s how every RPG ever works, video game or even not video games, like p&p RPGs.

The game masters make dungeons, and they add dungeon-appropriate rewards for them. Usually in a lot of RPGs, since they are single player, and not meant to be repeated, you get the exact item the boss character is using. You want that Staff of Awesome Time Bending that is held by a powerful Lich Wizard? Well you will probably have to go and kill him, or infiltrate his castle and steal it. Farming his minions that plague the countryside won’t reward you the item no matter how many you kill.

You want that epic gemstone that is part of a Dragon’s hoard? You will probably have to infiltrate said hoard and either kill the Dragon or find another way to get it, still doing the actual content. Farming the random goblin army minions won’t give you the item.

Yet in MMORPGs players have this weird idea of everything being available to every type of gameplay although this thing doesn’t exist in any other RPG, so why should it in MMORPGs?

Because “Play your way” was one of the marketing promises? The ability to do what you ENJOY, not what was REQUIRED, and to be able to enjoy the top-tier rewards. Because for 3 years, we haven’t had raids with exclusive rewards, and quite honestly only a very small group of people even wanted them?

Now, ANet has drawn a line in the sand: raiders are more important than non-raiders, and get exclusive rewards that can’t be earned anywhere else. If that’s their decision, well, it’s their game, but its not the game I bought, and not a game I’m interested in supporting.

“The ability to do what you ENJOY, not what was REQUIRED, and to be able to enjoy the top-tier rewards. "

You are able to enjoy what you want, and you aren’t required to do anything. As for being able to do what you enjoy and still enjoy the top tier rewards, I’m gonna need a dev quote to believe that. Until then……….

Ohoni.6057:

Speaking as someone who is iffy on doing the raids – if they offer raid gear outside of raids, then raids are pointless and they might as well go the way of Dungeons.

If this is true, then regardless of whether they offer raid gear outside of raids, then “raids are pointless and they might as well go the way of Dungeons.” If raids can only sustain themselves if they have unique rewards, then they are not a gameplay feature worthy of development support.

In order to make the game environment interesting. Various item skin telling you what a given player has done and likes to do is good because it lets you bond with others in a way. It gives the game character. Overcoming difficulty and inconvenience makes the result more precious because it required dedication. You needed to put something of yourself into it.

As to the first point, it’s not relevant, because players might not even be wearing that gear (very few of my characters have anything approaching the “hardest to earn” gear on), and who cares what they’ve done anyways? You don’t need skins for that. As to the second, overcoming difficulty is a personal thing, it is between you and the game how much of that you want to do, and it’s none of my business how much of it you do any more than it’s your business how much I do. If you want to challenge yourself, then the game should provide opportunities for you to do so, but if someone else wants to challenge himself less, then the game should not punish him for that.

Dark Souls is a widely praised and critically acclaimed game because it’s based on the principle that challenges are good because they’re satisfying to overcome.

Yes, but Dark Souls is not for everyone. In fact it’s not for most people. And that’s ok, because it’s a standalone game. I’m not going to have less access to rewards in Assassin’s Creed or Arkham City just because I didn’t want to beat Dark Souls. But that’s what we’re talking about here, that I will have less access to rewards in GW2 because I have no interest in the “Dark Souls” portion of GW2. I’m not saying that the raids should not exist, if people actually want to run them. I just think that they should be there for people who want the challenge, nor for people that want the rewards, and the rewards should be available to everyone in various ways.

They deserve it because they put in the effort. No one is preventing you from putting in the same and most would probably be more than happy to help you to stand there with them.

and as I’ve said time, and time, and time, and time again, I’m perfectly willing to put in the effort, that is not at issue. I would just want to put that effort into an activity that I enjoy as much as raiders enjoy raiding.

Most of the people supporting raid exclusivity here, also support this, I’m more than happy to have exclusive rewards in each part of the game, it makes each player more unique based on what they can and can’t do. And makes each activitiy worthwhile as it’s no longer tied to its gold value.

Most people who take this stance are likely secure in either that the rewards for the activities they want to do will be better than the unique rewards from other activities, or that they have the skills to do any activities that might lock out an item that they want. Try to look at it from the perspective of someone who does not have the skills, time, or other circumstances that would allow them to pursue raiding effectively. Don’t imagine that any wall they put up, you can get past, instead imagine that they took an item you truly care about, and they locked it behind a wall that is impossible for you (yes, even you) to ever overcome. Try to empathize with human beings who are not yourself.

Capable of minding and developing a child without damage or loss of life = 90%~ of the adult population
Capable of managing a multinational company in a profitable and sustainable way = 1%~ of the adult population.
The man minding the children is easily replaceable and the skill is widely available, due to supply and demand his position is valued less.
The woman acting as CEO of a fortune 500 company or the like has a rarer skill it is in high demand and low supply so the value of her position is higher.

But this is a game, and the man minding the child is equally as valuable to the game company as the woman acting as CEO, and there are way more of him, so why should the game company coddle the CEO at the caregiver’s expense?

Yet in MMORPGs players have this weird idea of everything being available to every type of gameplay although this thing doesn’t exist in any other RPG, so why should it in MMORPGs?

Because single player RPGs tend to be more narrowly focused and balanced. With a single player RPG, if you like most of it, you likely like all of it. If you can complete most of it, you likely can complete all of it (and if you can’t, there are usually ways to cheat). If a game, like Dark Souls, is very difficult, then it is ALL difficult, and if you don’t like that level of difficulty then you won’t play the game at all. If a game is mostly rather easy, then it isn’t likely to have crazy extreme challenges in parts that cannot be overcome. That would be seen as a gross imbalance and would result in significant player backlash.

But MMOs appeal to a broader audience, and cover a wide spectrum of player skill levels and interests. Some players claim to want the challenge that raids would provide, and that’s fine, the content and challenge should be there for them, but that doesn’t mean that there should be rewards associated to those specific tasks that other players cannot earn.

And as for P&Ps, that is the worst example to make your case with, because if a P&P group has a DM that refuses to cater his campaigns to the play styles of the players, that is not a game that will run very long. If the players are interested in a casual monster-stomp and the DM keeps throwing them into Tomb of Horrors scenarios, they aren’t likely to come back.

There are plenty of rewards exclusive to open world pve that can’t be earned by raiding.

and this is not a numbers game. Even if 99% of the rewards were exclusive to open world pve and only 1% were exclusive to raiding, if the item a player wants is in that 1% then it is 100% of a problem. This is why no items should be exclusive to any content. They can be easier to get through specific content, faster, but there should still be alternatives if that “core” method is completely off the table for you.

In an MMO, that dragon can be tuned so that only maybe 1% of the players can actually do it, or that dragon can die and no one else can even try.Then you have a story to tell and a reward to show, you’re unique and out of the faceless masses.

I don’t care about you and your story, but if you want to tell it, that’s fine. But don’t use that as an excuse to lock off a cool skin from other players. If you want a trophy, they should give you a trophy, a big item you can activate and run around town showing off how great you are, but it shouldn’t come in the form of a weapon or armor skin.

Even before the game launched, exclusive rewards were already an established norm in the game.

Yes, but not raids. The exclusive rewards at launch were predicated on the belief that having to raid for them would never be necessary.

If your really wanting to make a comparison, it would be more like this: There’s multiple choices of food, and the younger kid is complaining that all the food doesn’t suit him instead of simply eating the food he likes and leaving the other food the older brother likes to him.

No, that does not really fit the analogy, because you’re leaving out the reward, which is the entire point. Nobody is really complain that raids exist, if raids exist and I’m free to ignore them without repercussions then I’m totally fine with that. The complaint is that by not doing the raids, by not eating one of the specific meal options rather than the others," I would be missing out on rewards that I might want, and that is the point I would prefer to see changed.

Well ill give up on raids having unique rewards when the unique pvp rewards are 10x easier to get, oh and the LS trinket items. Oh and the fractal items. etc etc etc. You get the point. Your NOT entitled to easly be able to get everything in the game.

Ohoni.6057:

Except it isn’t exclusive. The content isn’t exclusive.
Everybody can do this content, and when you complete the content, you are rewarded for it.
Just like every other piece of content within the game. You do the content, which everyone is free to do, and when you complete it, you are given a reward for that content.

It is by necessity and nature exclusive. The entire reason this content exists is because some players felt that the existing content was not exclusive enough. If literally anyone could do the raids, then you can bet the forums would be on fire with people demanding that they be made harder, until less people could complete them. I’m fine with that, I don’t need to complete the raids, so long as I have alternative methods for earning the rewards. If there are no alternative methods, then we’re coming after the gameplay next, and we’ll get those raids nerfed into oblivion. Pick your poison.

Or what about those players who might have all the skills to run a raid, in theory, but their life does not allow them that option. Perhaps they are only able to play during odd hours, or on odd days of the week where forming a raid group is impossible. Or perhaps they can only play for 15-30 minutes here and there. Or perhaps they can play, but need the ability to stop what they’re doing at a moment’s notice, to, say, prevent their child from killing himself, even if that might mean the raid group wipes. Couldn’t those players have other alternatives?

You seem to have a very skewed idea of what effort is.
If you don’t want to put the effort into getting those rewards, you aren’t going to get those rewards, and I think it’ll do you a lot of good to just accept that.
If you want legendary armor, I’m sure you’ll put the effort into doing the content to get it. Good luck!

As I’ve said, I am perfectly willing to put forth just as much effort as any raider, I would just prefer it to be in an activity that I enjoy as much as a raider enjoys raiding. If you cannot understand that, then perhaps it is you who does not understand the meaning of the word “effort.”

But we aren’t talking about inability, we’re talking about refusal.
If you’re unable to move your character, use your characters skills, dodge roll, jump, press keys, target an opponent, then I’ll agree that you have an inability to complete raid content – but you also have an inability to play Guild Wars 2 at all. Arguably that’s all you need to do in order to complete raid content, and since we don’t know enough that would suggest otherwise, I’d suggest there’s no point even complaining about it.

Let’s say that the parent provided a meal that the younger child hates, while the older child really enjoys that food. Is it really an equal burden being placed on them to each finish the meal? Or let’s say that the child is mildly allergic to the meal, but the parent does not care because he prefers the older child, so while the younger might cramp down the meal because he really wants that desert, it would cause him to break out in hives. Is that fair to him?

Please understand that this is the situation here, it is not just a matter of “well, they should try harder,” it’s that you asking players to engage in something that might be in great conflict with their lives, and which they have zero interest in, but that they might do anyways if they want the rewards bad enough. That is not “fair” to them when the other side of the coin is people having the time of their lives doing the same content, and laughing about all those “whiners” who want the same rewards for not doing that content.

If your really wanting to make a comparison, it would be more like this: There’s multiple choices of food, and the younger kid is complaining that all the food doesn’t suit him instead of simply eating the food he likes and leaving the other food the older brother likes to him.

He makes it seam like linecasting is the easiest thing in the world. Plz go post a video of a daily dungeon tour where all the bosses were linecasted. And yes, a FEW bosses have a large HB, but that’s a FEW. Also, you don’t need to linecast to blow up bosses, it’s the fact that bosses have like 0 HP ( which I hope they change in raids ). Also, necromancer isn’t taken because they do slightly less DPS than a warrior, it’s cause warrior can apply banners while running in and then apply AoE might while in a fight. And for what its worth, I think it’s stupid to kick a necro that joins a group. In a casual tour your not going to notice the different between a necro and some other class. Also, just because you find some stupid people in the game that kick necros etc doesn’t mean that’s the majority of people that wear zerker gear. You also make it seam like skipping mobs is a exploit? Go into arah in a “all welcome” group and you will see the hardest part is the skipping. Of course, you can just stealth past which does lessen the skill required pretty much, but you would need to buff thief/engi if you were to take away most of there stealth. But then again, I don’t really expect much, after all, this is coming from the guy that thought stacking on bosses was effected months after the 2nd feature patch which kinda shows you have no clue what he’s talking about whatsoever.

BunjiKugashira.9754:

TheFrighteningFrenchFry.3275:

Lol, there isn’t even a reason to “stack” ( think you mean LoS ) on bosses anymore ( check the world records from the past year ). That was like close to a year ago. This doesn’t show anything except the fact the OP is way out of touch with dungeons.

Nope, stacking simply means all players standing on each others feet. You don’t need a corner for that. Nowadays you simply stack right where the boss stands.

I am aware of what stacking means. I think the OP meant LoS not stack. Seeing as he said about a closet. And I am aware you stack right on the boss these days. that’s what I was trying to point out.

Lol, there isn’t even a reason to “stack” ( think you mean LoS ) on bosses anymore ( check the world records from the past year ). That was like close to a year ago. This doesn’t show anything except the fact the OP is way out of touch with dungeons.

Sicarius.4639:

Think we can all agree all classes are not made equal, therefore if this content is the hardest content in the game, some classes may get left out.

Anet won’t want that, therefore it will accommodate the lowest common denominator, either everyone [classes] can do it or only some [classes].

Undoubtedly some classes will have a harder time than others. There isn’t much that can be done about that. Even with a brilliant balancing team, some classes are always gonna be better at doing challenging stuff than others. But that’s no reasen to make content easy. Winning the ESL is hard and thus only certain classes are taken, does that mean that shouldn’t exist? I feel with a few balance changes all classes could be used in a raid, presuming all classes won’t already be able to do the raid.

NocturnalsGuardian.8924:

I really cannot wait for the Devs to see THIS one!

Let’s just remind ourselves exactly what happened with the game community of Guild Wars (The Original Game…)!

1. Devs created a lovely nice environment for all to enjoy, develop and conquer TOGETHER;
2. Devs created such a lovely dungeon system as the players requested so that players could come TOGETHER to conquer the deepest of Tyria’s tests;
3. The players ruined EVERYTHING.

It’s like having a god create everything for you.. then you tiddle all over it.
Claiming NOT to include “pugging” for the raids is absolutely diabolical and also claiming that you are some-what elite compared to “casuals” like I cannot see your titles all over the news on how important you are?

Answer to your question, “casual” gamers become just as good as these so called “hardcore” players, although, as I’ve witnessed over a million (LITERALLY) times players insist on insulting “casual” players, not including them in group dungeons that clearly state “Recommended level 35” and begin to think they can take the future group activities away from them?

DIABOLICAL.

The players do not run this game, you pay for it but you do NOT run other people’s gaming experience leave that to the Game Devs. This is a community created for togetherness not because players have different skill levels lets not include them in the new stuff or even current stuff because I have 20K achievement points and they only have 2K, they’re not good enough for my parties.

It’s really simple. Lets start basic. A game is played for fun. Now some people have fun just running a dungeon or some other easy content, and some people enjoy a challenge/doing stuff as fast as possible. GW2 currently lacks the second option. Adding a few raids would fix this problem and draw in a lot of people that like a challenge. And for the people that don’t like a challenge, they can just not run the challenging group content. And for the people that don’t like easy content, they can just not do that. The people that want to dungeons fast can do that. And the people that don’t don’t have to. They can get 4 other party members who have fun in similar ways and have fun. The problem is some people refuse to do that. Some people join zerk only groups not wearing zerk. And some people join all welcome groups and complaining etc when it isn’t fast. Of course there will always be jerks on both sides that insult each other. Thinking they represent the majority of the “casual” or “hardcore” community is nothing but plain stupid. No one is taking away any group activities away from anyone,you just gotta group with like-minded people.

chemiclord.3978:

TheFrighteningFrenchFry.3275:

And even if they did I would hope the rewards would be substantially lessened for this easier mode.

And when we peel back everything to its core… THAT is what matters to you and the “hardcore” player.

You aren’t REALLY interested in the “challenge.” You want phat loot that makes you feel and look special. And in that case, Guild Wars 2 probably isn’t the game for you… because I highly doubt that the group content is going to be all that challenging (at least nothing that half of the player base can’t accomplish given enough time), and as a result its rewards aren’t going to be particularly exclusive.

If that’s what it was all about to me I would just go pvp to death to get the Glorious Hero’s armor and stop wishing they came out with all previous LS/gemstore stuff ( some of which I have, some of which I don’t have ). Oh and farm fractal 50 everyday to get a chance at the fractal tonic ( haven’t done a fractal in weeks ).

Mayga.7241:

Nobody has seen raids, no one killed last boss, but you have already divided people on PUG’s who do not deserve and for yourself, who of course deserve. What happened to you, people? Are you crazy with your elitism?

I hope the developers read all this and draw conclusions. I really hope.

And where did I say I deserved to be able to complete raids?? Your the one saying you DESERVE to be able to do a raid. Not me. In fact I said in a above post IF I complete the raid I would help out people who asked questions about the raid.

Eldbrand Charging.8902:

I agree, all players should be able to TRY to beat it. But I feel like fractal 50 ( and especially 100 when hot comes ) fills the role of challenging for most pugs. So now I think the only thing that is left is challenging for “hardcores” ( I’m thinking people from the top guilds/are real quick with there dodges, use good builds, and are in general knowledgeable about most things dungeon/fractal related ). One raid after 2 years isn’t that much to ask for to fill this gap that gw2 has had. With hopefully a few more challenging raids down the road too, I think gw2 will be able to maintain more people that they were losing because there wasn’t anything challenging pve related for them.

[/quote]
Even the top guilds will fail first time, it will be so many unknowns, difference is they will keep their failures quiet (even top guilds need to try and then adjust builds for new content, unless someone at Anet gives them early info (guess who) ), only when they beat it will we hear about it.

[/quote]

Yeah that’s what I hope it will be like.

Eldbrand Charging.8902:

TheFrighteningFrenchFry.3275:

Jaymee.1560:

I’m sorry, I just think this is dumb, it’s stupid and it has no place in MMOs.

Comments like this are a clear motive to divide people into two groups, in the same game.

Group 1: Hardcore Gaming

Group 2: Casual Gaming

and while these two types of plays style have been apart of gaming since the dawn of multiplayer gaming, there is a backfire to be had here. A backfire I myself suffered in GW 1 when Ursan was introduced.

I wanted to do the Torment Realm, I wanted to play it, yet I could never find a group who would take me unless I was Ursan Rank 8 and I would get upset by this.

I too bought this game, I have a right to play it, who is another player to tell me I cannot participate in certain aspect because I do not have this or I’m not a hardcore player?

I understand everyone has goals here, I get that, but… to exclude people from gaming in an area where they may not play it as well as someone else or… play it, but lack 10 more beeds of sweat that the Hardcore Players use as their prerequisite is pathetic,

I missed out on a sizeable part of GW 1 because I didn’t know how to play it and the so-called Hardcore GW 1 players would take someone who was Ursan Rank 6.

We are all players in this game, we all have the same right to try all available content. I despise those who think they play better than someone else.

I went through it in Everquest, EQ 2 FFXI, SWTOR, GW 1 and I REFUSE to entertain going through it again here. Anyone who thinks this kind of mentality is justified should be bonked on the head. Pffffttt…

“We are all players in this game, we all have the same right to try all available content. I despise those who think they play better than someone else.”

Here’s where you went wrong. Even if the challenging group content is SUPER hard, you CAN do it. You just gotta practice. Its totally, 100% available to you. And if you don’t practice/don’t want to you can just ignore it ever existed. its ONE thing after TWO YEARS of total poop for dungeons/fractals. Also its not wrong for someone to relise that you are better than someone else at a game. What you also have to relise is that you may have spent more time in the game, cared more about getting better because it was more fun to you, ran into a lot of people who helped you with tips n whatnot etc etc. When you start thinking your a better human being than someone else just cause your better at the game, then there is a problem.

Where the OP went wrong was when he/she stated raids should not be available for casual players/pug’s, but only hardcore players.
If it is to hard for casuals/Pug’s that’s fine but it should be available and all should be able to at least try to beat it.

I agree, all players should be able to TRY to beat it. But I feel like fractal 50 ( and especially 100 when hot comes ) fills the role of challenging for most pugs. So now I think the only thing that is left is challenging for “hardcores” ( I’m thinking people from the top guilds/are real quick with there dodges, use good builds, and are in general knowledgeable about most things dungeon/fractal related ). One raid after 2 years isn’t that much to ask for to fill this gap that gw2 has had. With hopefully a few more challenging raids down the road too, I think gw2 will be able to maintain more people that they were losing because there wasn’t anything challenging pve related for them.

I’m a forum noob here, seams like you added more to your post.

“I’m a casual, or at least I call myself one, but everyone else labels me an “Elite” player in a novelty way cause I can do a great many things in this game that they can’t. But a lot of others can do a great many more things that I can’t… and… if I were interested, I’d never learn how cause no one would help to teach me, so…”

If the CGC is actually challenging, you can just practice in dungeons/fractals, potentially even solo if you want, to get better with your dodge reflexes. And you can read on the internet probably at some point guides. No doubt there will be people who have completed the raid and will be willing to answer any questions someone has ( if I do complete it and get decent at it I would help out with questions ).

Jaymee.1560:

I’m sorry, I just think this is dumb, it’s stupid and it has no place in MMOs.

Comments like this are a clear motive to divide people into two groups, in the same game.

Group 1: Hardcore Gaming

Group 2: Casual Gaming

and while these two types of plays style have been apart of gaming since the dawn of multiplayer gaming, there is a backfire to be had here. A backfire I myself suffered in GW 1 when Ursan was introduced.

I wanted to do the Torment Realm, I wanted to play it, yet I could never find a group who would take me unless I was Ursan Rank 8 and I would get upset by this.

I too bought this game, I have a right to play it, who is another player to tell me I cannot participate in certain aspect because I do not have this or I’m not a hardcore player?

I understand everyone has goals here, I get that, but… to exclude people from gaming in an area where they may not play it as well as someone else or… play it, but lack 10 more beeds of sweat that the Hardcore Players use as their prerequisite is pathetic,

I missed out on a sizeable part of GW 1 because I didn’t know how to play it and the so-called Hardcore GW 1 players would take someone who was Ursan Rank 6.

We are all players in this game, we all have the same right to try all available content. I despise those who think they play better than someone else.

I went through it in Everquest, EQ 2 FFXI, SWTOR, GW 1 and I REFUSE to entertain going through it again here. Anyone who thinks this kind of mentality is justified should be bonked on the head. Pffffttt…

“We are all players in this game, we all have the same right to try all available content. I despise those who think they play better than someone else.”

Here’s where you went wrong. Even if the challenging group content is SUPER hard, you CAN do it. You just gotta practice. Its totally, 100% available to you. And if you don’t practice/don’t want to you can just ignore it ever existed. its ONE thing after TWO YEARS of total poop for dungeons/fractals. Also its not wrong for someone to relise that you are better than someone else at a game. What you also have to relise is that you may have spent more time in the game, cared more about getting better because it was more fun to you, ran into a lot of people who helped you with tips n whatnot etc etc. When you start thinking your a better human being than someone else just cause your better at the game, then there is a problem.

Khristophoros.7194:

They are too easy.

Zerk meta is because it’s fastest and people want to farm as fast as possible.

I don’t know if you mean its too easy to see there is some trolls in here or if your saying wearing zerker gear is easy. If its the second thing then: Zerker gear in normal dungeons and even fractals to some extent IS easy. But that is because dungeons and fractals are easy. If you make actually challenging group content, then zerker will be the opposite of easy. Nomad will be easier. And zerker like the hardest to wear.

Jaymee.1560:

Why can’t I just shake the feeling of someone saying “We’re hardcore players, we don’t want PuGs!!!” yet what I really hear is: “We white kids don’t go to school with colored kids!!!”

(I predict my comment is gonna get removed, but ya know, that is what this conversation is leading up to, and it’s pathetic.)

I think there should be easier content ( most of gw2 ) and some harder content for the people that also like that. Pugs are normerly not so good, and thus, if pugs can defeat CHALLENGING group content, then its not really challenging. Now I understand if you manage to get 9 other good players that you will probaly be able to defeat that, I’m just saying ALMOST ALL pugs hopefully won’t be able to do it cause otherwise I don’t think its really gonna be a challenge.

Jerus.4350:

PUGs should be able to beat it… months after release once general strategies and compositions have been fully explored by the more hardcore. If a PUG walks in the first week and downs it calling it challenging is quite the exaggeration.

It should require a high level of coordination and demand a well thought out team composition to cover all necessary roles. On top of that it should require good individual play. All these elements you’re just not going to find in most PUG groups. Eventually the strategies are passed down and well known such that coordination isn’t required as much as people just know what to do. Likewise team composition will become well known so when someone joins the group they just jump into whatever role is needed without much fuss. But it’ll be a long time before that level of understanding is known by the general community. Then the individual play will be the last factor, if you’re lucky you get good players and aren’t screaming “where was the reflect?!?”

So should there be the potential, absolutely, is it something that should be expected within the first few months of it’s release? absolutely not.

I agree, huge emphasis on the last part, the: Then the individual play will be the last factor, if you’re lucky you get good players and aren’t screaming “where was the reflect?!?”

Undoubtedly strategies will develop as time passes after the raid is released. But you should still need skill and not just have to read a guide.

Behellagh.1468:

Coulter.2315:

nathan goossen.9546:

wel i think they nead to make 2 mods hard and casual i want todo it to experince it as wel for fun thats whats game about anyway so why does only 1% of ppl most be capable of doing it while the rest stayes in the dust lol thats not fair

99% can’t do it =/= casual pugs can’t do it. No one is asking for something only 1% of people can do.

Actually that’s what the hardcore have been asking for. They want content and especially rewards from content that only the elite of the elite can get. That means account or even character bound rewards that can’t be traded, bought or acquired another way. They want to flaunt their eliteness.

If PUGs repeatedly get their face smashed they hardcore is happy. Now once a guide/video gets posted and a PUG can get on the same page and succeed, then the hardcore can get upset all over again.

“That means account or even character bound rewards that can’t be traded, bought or acquired another way.”

What items are you referring to?

“Now once a guide/video gets posted and a PUG can get on the same page and succeed, then the hardcore can get upset all over again.”

I think if all you need is knowledge on the raid and not actual skill then it’s not really challenging at all. So like if there isn’t really fast attacks etc that you need to dodge and all you need is to read up on the guide a couple weeks after its out then I don’t think it’s challenging.

“They want content and especially rewards from content that only the elite of the elite can get.”

I don’t think its too much to ask for some raid stuff. Like I have said a lot, its ONE raid after TWO YEARS of total poop for dungeon/fractal updates. And I don’t think its too much to ask for unique rewards for some content. Pvp has the balthazar backitem, fractals have fractal skins. LS instances have new trinket stat combinations etc etc

nathan goossen.9546:

yea sure and for the fact i like todo everything in the game im in and oke i get ppl cryed for it for 2 years already but stil i dont want to be left behinde just becuase im casual and such i want to atlist be able todo it

Here’s your problem. You CAN do even a really hard raid. You just gotta practice. You don’t want to. Why do you think that everything has to be able to easily be done by you? It’s called entitlement.

Eldbrand Charging.8902:

Make one mode for the “Pros” (as they like to call them self’s) with a timer, that get’s shorter for every time they beat the timer.
And one mode without the timer for everyone who likes to play GW2 for the fun of it.

The “pros” also play the game for fun. Its just their definition of fun is different. And yeah I don’t think they will do this cause they already said no to hardmode for dungeons

nathan goossen.9546:

im just hoping casuals can make it in longer time then the hard core elite idiots

idk i like to have some challange but not over the top

i tryed for over 2 years joining a speed clear dungeon guilds but i always lak the skil or what ever even when im playing this game for over 3 years learned most things you nead to know about the bosses and such (wel arah excluted) and i was like wtf is wrong with speed clear ppl lol most of them always brag about go faster and faster and dont even enjoy the content

lol plz anet dont make it to hard for pugs and casuals i want to enjoy the content as wel

hell maby make 2 mods over kill mod for ppl who realy want to brag and casual mode where you get things slower but steadly

im pritty much liked fractals but at lvl 50 its only elite idiots who dont care if your perfect or not i make mistakes all the time like every casual but stil dont make raids overkill for casuals not funny

“and i was like wtf is wrong with speed clear ppl lol most of them always brag about go faster and faster and dont even enjoy the content "

A: if they dont enjoy the content why are they doing it?!? lel. B: glad you got statistics about the number of “speed clear” people that brag. Mind posting me the link?

“lol plz anet dont make it to hard for pugs and casuals i want to enjoy the content as wel”

The rest of the content in the game is for you. This ONE thing after TWO YEARS is for the people who want challenge. You make that seam like its ridiculous. Like OMG everything in this game isn’t something I can do what is this plz stop this madness. Just lel.

“hell maby make 2 mods over kill mod for ppl who realy want to brag and casual mode where you get things slower but steadly”

Highly doubt they will do this. They already said no to hardmode for dungeons. And even if they did I would hope the rewards would be substantially lessened for this easier mode.

ForeverAway.5948:

TheFrighteningFrenchFry.3275:

ForeverAway.5948:

TheFrighteningFrenchFry.3275:

“we have dungeon and fractals alredy and there too hard”

Lol, dungeons and fractals too hard? Lets take a look. SE p1, first boss, reflects/stability. Second boss, reflects. 3rd boss, guess what, reflects and stability and condi removal. only on the 4th boss do you maybe have to use the dodge button. How is that even close to challenging?

“and create the zerkermeta”

And what exactly is the problem with zerker meta? In every single MMO out there is a most efficient way to do things, and in gw2 its just using zerker gear for your armor instead of something else.

“pls no more it will ruin the game for me”

Something potentially challenging is finally coming out after 2 years of just total poop being given to dungeons/fractals and your complaining? We get this ONE thing after TWO years of poop. Guess what, you don’t have to play it. You can just totally ignore it and have fun with the rest of the game which is dead easy and which gets updates 1000x more often.

mo zerker mo problems lol :P (>_)>

u know what i meen

I don’t understand what your trying to say. What do you mean by mo? And no I don’t know what you mean. Could you rephrase it?

mo’ = more

zerkmeta is bad and thats all i know

no more zerkmeta dungons pls

I think you forget 1 thing in your post. The part where you explained WHY the zerker meta is bad. Until then………………. flying airplanes IRL is bad. lol

Beldin.5498:

I wanted to hear the outcry of the vocal players here if they had made legendarys
only available to PvP players that win some E-Sport events.

And hi to my stalker NT.

Of course there would be a outcry. But that is why they should make other ways for people to get legendary armor. Whether its a different skin than the raid ones is up to debate.

Seera.5916:

Dinks.2478:

Seera.5916:

TheRandomGuy.7246:

Mayga.7241:

TheRandomGuy.7246:

There is smaaall little reason why legendary armor must remain locked behind hardest content in the game. It is called Crafting.

Nothing should belong only to a small fraction of the players in this game. I can go through a raid – this is no problem, I have years of experience in hardmode content.

But why is it necessary? Why this should be tied to the raid content? We have here WoW or GW2? I came to play in GW2. And I want to stay in it – not in clone of WoW.
So legendary armor must be hard-to-get, but only like legendary weapon. Raids must be pure challenge. This is only way to prevent the separation of the community.

Here we go again. WoW and doom in the same post. “Years of experience” yet you don’t understand why armor sets with free stat swapping should not be available to everyone.

Just like the weapons? Oh wait, I’m down to the stuff the needs gold. Gold is not hard to earn. And no where near hardcore.

It becomes something for hardcore players only and hardcore groups that can do it with a few under ten, they will likely sell the other spots for gold. Just like they do in dungeons.

So might as well make it doable by PUGs. It doesn’t have to be easy for them.to do it. But once guides get released, it should be doable, but difficult.

They CAN do it, there is no restriction blocking them aside from difficulty. It is CHALLENGING content. If they can do it they can do it. That is the only way to put it. Nobody will stop them from doing it but themselves.

And even some casuals will be willing to organize to defeat the content once guides are out.

And if ANet makes them sellable, then all bets are off and everyone with a credit card can have them just like the current set of legendary weapons.

First, I hope it won’t be so easy for “casuals” to kill it. IF they made the legendary armor sellable ( unlikely ) AND a decent amount of people liked the skin AND the skin could only be acquired through raids, then I think it wouldn’t be that bad of a idea. For the people that do raids to get the skin, they can either A: unlock in wardrobe if they like it or B: sell it for good money on the TP to still get a use out of it.

SenorMoody.5908:

The Tee Why.4807:

I don’t mind anybody joining, as long as it corresponds to what I listed in the LFG’s.

I mean, “P1 80’s EXP”

And someone with 200 achivements and level 60 joins and says “im good doe”

Sorry, but there’s nothing at all wrong with someone not wanting newbs with them.

LMAO!! yea because Achievement Points is an accurate way to read a player’s skill. /endsarcasm. There are so many Leets like ^ that in this game and people still like say things like “GW2 has one of the best communities out there….” Not even close… not with people like that becoming the norm.

They are a plague on any game they touch. A disease that spreads very quickly. Just look at the LFG window… completely full of things like that… “No Newbs”, “Experienced Only”, “6000 AP +”, “Ping Gear” … I feel like people like that forget that this is a game… and games serve one purpose… Fun / Entertainment.

Some of these snobs have the nerve to say “No Newbs” on completely new content that no one has played yet… what kind of logic is that?

Ya AP is a horrible way to tell skill. And while a games purpose is for fun, some people have different ways of having fun. Some people like having faster runs and some people don’t. Which isn’t a problem at all. The problem is that the two people mix sometimes when they shouldn’t. Some people join zerk only runs with no zerk. Some people join all welcome groups and try to go fast and complain when it doesn’t. And I think what he means by no noobs is be decent with your class.

Mayga.7241:

TheFrighteningFrenchFry.3275:

?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?! You saying that nobody likes challenge in a game?!?!?! Glad you can brain read everybody out there. Of course just like with any game there will be guys who simply want to feel superior, but there are also people like that in pvp. You saying we should remove PvP from the game? Oh and WvW cause you can fight in there too.

I only say, that legendary armor must be like legendary weapon. And if you really want only challenge, you can safely receive for raids skins and titles. Nothing more. Like in fractals or dungeons. Because legendary armor it’s not just skin and you all understand this perfectly.

I do agree I think legendary armor outside of raids is a good idea. Whether the skin is the same or not is up to debate. However I do believe legendary armor IS just a skin. The only other thing different is that it can swap stats. That’s not that big of a change. It doesn’t have a stat gain at all. Its just a QoL thing that not everyone needs.

Mayga.7241:

Looking at how much you protest against pure challenge in raids, I am increasingly convinced that I was absolutely right. You don’t need challenge – you want superiority. And this is the main sadness.
Anet, please, look at this and think about it until it’s too late.

?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?! You saying that nobody likes challenge in a game?!?!?! Glad you can brain read everybody out there. Of course just like with any game there will be guys who simply want to feel superior, but there are also people like that in pvp. You saying we should remove PvP from the game? Oh and WvW cause you can fight in there too.

So let me get this strait, you think anybody basically should be able to complete this CHALLENGING group content? “smacks head” tho I don’t think it should be challenging for bragging rights, that’s just stupid. And for all you people complaining about raids, just remember, this is ONE raid after TWO YEARS of total poop for dungeons/fractals. Calm down and just pretend it never existed, the rest of the updates are for you, 1 thing after two years isn’t gonna kill you.

ForeverAway.5948:

TheFrighteningFrenchFry.3275:

“we have dungeon and fractals alredy and there too hard”

Lol, dungeons and fractals too hard? Lets take a look. SE p1, first boss, reflects/stability. Second boss, reflects. 3rd boss, guess what, reflects and stability and condi removal. only on the 4th boss do you maybe have to use the dodge button. How is that even close to challenging?

“and create the zerkermeta”

And what exactly is the problem with zerker meta? In every single MMO out there is a most efficient way to do things, and in gw2 its just using zerker gear for your armor instead of something else.

“pls no more it will ruin the game for me”

Something potentially challenging is finally coming out after 2 years of just total poop being given to dungeons/fractals and your complaining? We get this ONE thing after TWO years of poop. Guess what, you don’t have to play it. You can just totally ignore it and have fun with the rest of the game which is dead easy and which gets updates 1000x more often.

mo zerker mo problems lol :P (>_)>

u know what i meen

I don’t understand what your trying to say. What do you mean by mo? And no I don’t know what you mean. Could you rephrase it?

“we have dungeon and fractals alredy and there too hard”

Lol, dungeons and fractals too hard? Lets take a look. SE p1, first boss, reflects/stability. Second boss, reflects. 3rd boss, guess what, reflects and stability and condi removal. only on the 4th boss do you maybe have to use the dodge button. How is that even close to challenging?

“and create the zerkermeta”

And what exactly is the problem with zerker meta? In every single MMO out there is a most efficient way to do things, and in gw2 its just using zerker gear for your armor instead of something else.

“pls no more it will ruin the game for me”

Something potentially challenging is finally coming out after 2 years of just total poop being given to dungeons/fractals and your complaining? We get this ONE thing after TWO years of poop. Guess what, you don’t have to play it. You can just totally ignore it and have fun with the rest of the game which is dead easy and which gets updates 1000x more often.

I solo my way as far as possible in CoE p3, then post it as: exp, lvl 80 only, no stacking/LoS bosses. I don’t stack on the second subject Alpha, watching as they all stack. So I ask them why they stack, and they reply: more healing, and more DPS. So I post that all the world records don’t stack, and end up get kicked…….. even after I said I was the instance owner…

EDIT: I thought hammer guard was useful in FotM lol

Purple Miku.7032:

I’ve accepted for a while now that I can’t pug fotm. People just irritate the hell out of me. Like, for example in Thaumanova fractal, pugs don’t split up and do multiple things. If I say I’ll solo heat room they all wait outside like idiots instead of having somebody go to the east room and 2-3 go to the south.

Just one out of many many things that drive me nuts.

In any case that I had pugged fotm in the past I always made people share their traits/equipment with me when joining in swamp to make sure I wasn’t getting plebs that immediately think they’re good because they’re wearing berserker. There’s a lot of those… and more often than not it’s rifle warrior that brings both banners when there’s already somebody who pinged a banner/GS mesmer that doesn’t bring reflects/HAMMER GUARDS and the absolute worst… scepter/dagger eles.

Embrace, don’t be ashamed of being a filthy elitist when it comes to fotm. There’s too many anti-solo mechanics such as dredge fractal in general, and thaumanova (unless you’re a mesmer), coupled with not being able to log out and in to rejoin after a death for me to maintain patience with pug teams, so I totally get what you’re coming at.

I thought hammer guard was useful in guards. Is it just because of all the light fields? I was just beginning to do FotM with guard, and uh, if I shouldn’t be running hammer, it would always help to know : )

IvanTheGrey.2941:

TheFrighteningFrenchFry.3275:

I’ve played GW2 for the past 10 years ( most definitely ), acquired demi god gear ( most definitely ). When I wanted to solo lupi, I just slapped my best gear on my warrior, got to lupi, smacked my head against my keyboard, looked up, and BAM! There was lupi, lying dead on the floor! I definitely got carried by my gear.

You were. I was there ;-)

Nomad gear OP.

To add to what was said above, I think if you really wanted to solo dungeons, that joining (NOOB) would be a great idea ( provided your willing to listen etc.). As for your original idea, while it is interesting, I think there are more pressing matters with dungeons that are more important. But it doesn’t matter anyway, cause Anet ( or someone ) hates on dungeons. : (

I’ve played GW2 for the past 10 years ( most definitely ), acquired demi god gear ( most definitely ). When I wanted to solo lupi, I just slapped my best gear on my warrior, got to lupi, smacked my head against my keyboard, looked up, and BAM! There was lupi, lying dead on the floor! I definitely got carried by my gear.