Guild Wars 2

Kitty.1502:

gin.7158:

Interesting, I don’t play ranger. Why do people want it? spotter and frost spirit, CC bot?
Or preparing druid for hard encounter? is druid better than the base ranger?

Ranger’s support is inferior to other support, though they can be good dps, but they are not meta material.

They have Frost Spirit, Spotter, stealth, good amount of vuln, and can up that even more with storm spirit. In addition the Smokescale can hit really hard in addition to it having an evade attack. You can also take sun spirit if you have a lot of condition damage guys in the group. The only problem is the ranger sword auto attack and the pet still dying pretty fast. You could go condition damage for your ranger so you don’t have to worry about the sword but then you lose out on some vuln.

I don’t know why your so keen to get it locked. You can just stop replying like I did when you realize replying isn’t going to do any good.

Xyonon.3987:

TheFrighteningFrenchFry.3275:

Xyonon.3987:

Never pick air or fire in pve. Besides there also may be new sigils who knows?

Why not air? Didn’t it use to be a good option for day time dungeons? Actually wait, didn’t they nerf it sometime recently? That’s probably it.

It has never been a really good sigil. The only chance I beleve has been made is that it no longer can crit. But that’d be a veeeery old change.

I thought air used to be the go to for day time dungeons but now that they got nerfed IDK how good it is now. Totally forgot about the air nerf.

deSade.9437:

I am honestly terrified at the thought of rangers becoming so good they’ll climb up to “optimal” for records…
…only to be butchered after 3 days by anet. This isn’t ele we talkin’ about!

Yeah, if they nerf ranger that would be slightly disappointing to say the least. I’m enjoying the shake up in the meta. I feel like all the medium classes will be pretty well balanced.

Iris Ng.9845:

TheFrighteningFrenchFry.3275:

Iris Ng.9845:

2. Fight is too short to actually need Aclarity: If you want more Burst, take Guard. If you want fast travel in vertical axis, take Mesmer.

Without having seen fractal 90+ I wouldn’t say that. Even on a current lvl 50 alacrity would get some good use. In addition chronomancer has tons of quickness. The only reason I would take a guardian over a mesmer is for aegis.

Guard has about the same amount of quickness up time as a mesmer, considering the strong presence of a Revenant in the group. Guard has much better burst damage than a mesmer if your group is organized enough to annihilate everything within 30 seconds. If you take a Guard for aegis, may as well take a chronomesmer instead to abuse (distortion+ Blur) x continuum split. Many skills are double or triple damaging (Mossman’s Gouge, Ashym’s staff flare skills, Ettin’s stomp) and there are skills that are unblockable like Molten Berserker’s shockwave.

Even with a revenant you only have 7.5 seconds of quickness which isn’t that much compared to chronomancers 17 presuming your not using shield and then the well is almost off CD again. With shield you easily get 29 seconds of quickness because shield 5 and the one well will be off CD by that time. This is without revenant with revenant this just goes up to even more insane numbers. And yeah guard does have better DPS. And yeah mesmer could just go Well of Precognition + Signet of midnight with distortion sharing. But we should take into account dragonhunter, i mean those LB skills can do some sweet numbers : P I almost feel bad for guardian. Almost. The time of the chronomancer is here!

/end RP mode

Rising Dusk.2408:

Druid is going to become as mandatory as Warrior. It has Spotter, GoE, GotL, FS, and SS all with respectable DPS on its own. My expectation for top speed clears will be:

• Mesmer / Guardian
• Warrior
• Ranger
• Thief
• Elementalist / Engineer

wait druid? What’s good with druid?

Mireles Lore.5942:

Gaile Gray.6029:

Mireles Lore.5942:

bound by NDA? Why even post this? Just to let everyone know they were passed over for something they never had a fair shot at being considered for?

Why? For transparency and as a means of communication, which I think we all agree is a good thing.

Too, I see some concerns about claims of world firsts. ArenaNet doesn’t track, verify, record, or reward world firsts. But making public that certain guilds were involved in testing seems appropriate and relevant in that context, does it not?

Transparency sure okay, I can get on board with that.

But alot of us were all to eager to test it Friday and Saturday night of the beta weekend and didn’t get to do that. Had multiple pre-made teams set up. But hey its beta stuff happens right?

Been a GW guild for 10 years now with accomplishments in both games.

Then we see this “hey these established guilds get to test it! No, there wasn’t an application process to consider guilds out side of these referrals on guilds that previously got to test. But! maybe just maybe, we will open up testing and you will get a fair shot at getting to test it too before release”

I guess just serve me with lime and call me salty because all the effort my guild and I have put in prepping for raids it would have at-least been nice to have a platform where all guilds could have been considered.

The idea is for only a few people to test them instead of it being like a open beta.

Iris Ng.9845:

2. Fight is too short to actually need Aclarity: If you want more Burst, take Guard. If you want fast travel in vertical axis, take Mesmer.

Without having seen fractal 90+ I wouldn’t say that. Even on a current lvl 50 alacrity would get some good use. In addition chronomancer has tons of quickness. The only reason I would take a guardian over a mesmer is for aegis.

For what, dungeons or fractals?

Probably something of the sort like this:

1 Chronomancer ( alacrity + quickness + reflects + condition removal + portal + being awesome )
1 PS warrior ( might + banners + EA, but without strength runes or might food )
1 Herald ( 50% boon duration, some might, 150 ferocity, can provide perma protection if needed, can provide projectile destruction and more condition removal if needed, stability )
1 Ranger ( stealth, frost spirit, spotter, tons of vuln )
1 Ele ( FGS, DF )

EDIT: Durp, it said fractals, still would go for pretty much the same comp. Potentially engi over ranger because sword auto attack screws with ranger.

Xyonon.3987:

Never pick air or fire in pve. Besides there also may be new sigils who knows?

Why not air? Didn’t it use to be a good option for day time dungeons? Actually wait, didn’t they nerf it sometime recently? That’s probably it.

Zenith.7301:

You’re gonna get fury, setting you at 85% crit. To that add spotter adds another 7% crit chance, so you’re sitting at 92% chance. Warrior banner bumps you to 100% crit chance.

Since day/night sigils won’t work in raids, you’re looking at sigils of accuracy instead on your offhand, that would be 107% crit chance. You’re better up picking the extra power from berzerker to not overcap and waste stats.

Yeah I was thinking about night sigils and accuracy. Sint night sigils won’t work, what’s next best? Accuracy, or air?

Zenith.7301:

Assassins is NOT the stat set of choice for raids come HoT.

With a ranger and spotter in a raid, you will be crit capped so BERZERKER is the stat of choice for group content.

And no, condition mesmer is not a practical build for most of PvE, including raids. Please stop misinforming people just because you can use any build in open world zerg farm.

Out of curiosity, will you actually be crit capped? How accurate is this website: http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vhAQRAsc8encfCtqh9fCmfCUrhlVjqcDGhAo+Yj2pFd6OjrD-TBBXwAA2fU+5S/wS1feoEMAwBwwFuwFOY91Xf91XvhHe4hHe4xAkH-e

Because if it is accurate it might depend on how good your food is and whether or not dungeon potions get trashed or not. And if it’s accurate some of it might also depend on if you have infusions or not.

I don’t mean to be stupid but did you accidentally post this in the wrong place? And if so can you move topics or can only moderators do so?

Doug Whisper.2465:

Too good to be true. I am afraid this will become another “We heal as one” overnight nerf.

Which is why Xaylin at least had a good suggestion. Either X + Y ( what I was thinking of originally ) or a percentage which is probably better.

Ross Biddle.2367:

Fay.2357:

TheFrighteningFrenchFry.3275:

Chaos Archangel.5071:

Wait.. Why am I a troll? O.o

Is a troll just.. Anyone who doesn’t agree with you? Cuz usually big brother Ross rolls in and does all the trolling anyone ever needs.

.. Can we get this thread locked yet?

(Also, Ross, I hate you. -_-)

Naw, not so much you tho some stuff you have said is pretty……….

Aka yes, stuff that doesn’t agree with you (read: anything involving reason and logic) is trolly.

Sometimes a man gets a beating and just doesn’t want to get beat no more (read: also see Chaos A).

LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL this is the exact reason I stopped the discussion. Cause apparently stopping a discussion is “getting beat”

I don’t know if this could get any better.

Chaos Archangel.5071:

Wait.. Why am I a troll? O.o

Is a troll just.. Anyone who doesn’t agree with you? Cuz usually big brother Ross rolls in and does all the trolling anyone ever needs.

.. Can we get this thread locked yet?

(Also, Ross, I hate you. -_-)

Naw, not so much you tho some stuff you have said is pretty……….

“CS doesn’t make Mesmer as a whole easier to play, it makes a somewhat hard-to-grasp meta build more forgiving.”

That’s it. I can only laugh at trolls for so long. My laughing time is up, and my brain start to hurt is starting to role in. Of course it doesn’t make the whole of mesmer easier to play. It just makes people who choose that trait and MoD in duels easier to play. Which is why CS should get changed. I don’t mind traits that make a class significantly easier to play unless it’s also the most effective at the top tier. Playing something at the top tier should be challenging and CS just made that a lot less so. Add some more counterplay and you make it so other skilled players can atleast deal with it. And no, I do not consider myself top tier but I think of other people not just myself. Should have ditched this thread the instant some of the people from that dungeon chronomancer discussion entered.

So long trolls.

Fay.2357:

And I’m saying you’re wrong. Did you completely ignore what I just posted? I’m guessing yes, there’s a pattern of that here. As for rending shatter, comparing it to other crappy traits doesn’t make it look better, it just makes it look like you have a whole bunch of crappy traits…

Anyway, I’m thinking we should probably just abandon the thread at this point. It’s only still alive because we persist in doing the equivalent of having an animated conversation with a kittenroach: it doesn’t care what we say, and it’s not going to stop doing what it does no matter how eloquently you talk to it.

What part do you think I’m wrong with? The part that it would make bursting as mesmer in a duel actually take some skill? And I’m just saying compared to a LOT ( you even said this in your latest post ) of traits the other ones aren’t bad. So you could either buff a whole ton of the traits or nerf CS. Anyway ya this discussion kinda ended a long time ago. Almost exactly around when the trolls got in.

AlphatheWhite.9351:

TheFrighteningFrenchFry.3275:

you would go back to the old days

How is this a selling point? The old days weren’t great days for the mesmer.

the selling point is to play mesmer with this change would at the top tier in a duel would mean you would have to be pretty good at landing your bursts instead of simply pressing an extra butten.

Daniel Handler.4816:

TheFrighteningFrenchFry.3275:

Daniel Handler.4816:

TheFrighteningFrenchFry.3275:

Daniel Handler.4816:

TheFrighteningFrenchFry.3275:

Daniel Handler.4816:

TheFrighteningFrenchFry.3275:

“Complex positioning of pets is too easy already. Lets make it so all phantasms are crippled by default. Raise the skill floor.”

Except that wouldn’t raise the skill floor. At all. I’m simply saying, add some counterplay to CS because currently it’s extremely easy to use and the opponent can do very little to negate it. So add some counterplay to it. If some guy is fighting vs CS he should be able to do something to try and avoid it if he is skilled enough sso that he can also avoid mesmers burst.Or actually probably a better suggestion made my someone was to just to totally change what CS does. Which I think is a pretty good idea. Would let us create a skill that doesn’t overshine on the other two traits there in addition to dealing with CS. If I could go with either my original suggestion or totally changing what CS does I’d probably go with the second one. The question is, what would you replace it with? Something that fits with mesmer. Any ideas welcome. How about on interrupt create a clone with a 5-10 second CD?

EDIT: At this point IDK why I am surprised. After all, some of these guys were trolling in that mesmer dungeon chronomancer thread

Yes it would, and by quite a lot. Reducing the movement abilities of illusions makes them easier to kite. It would make it so people had to concentrate more on positioning their Illusions. Right now the only time we have to focus on positioning is for a chain daze.

Your argument is anecdotal and doesnt explain what should and shouldn’t have skill floors in this game. Extremely easy to use and no counterplay:
Auras
Stances
Virtues
Stat buffs that activate upon entering combat
…. Etc

You have to come up with some better explanation dude.

I am trying to to give you the benefit of the doubt but you keep repeating a non explanation.

You want counterplay to raise the skill floor. Tell us why.

Except you can’t really control where your illusions are once they are out………something minor again. And why do I want counterplay AKA higher skill floor? Because right now the effects of the stun are strong.

@Ross Biddle

And yet, CS would actually still compete with the other trait options in that line…………

They many times run in straight lines. We would have to use other phantasms that don’t move to guide people into getting hit.

And now finally we are getting somewhere.

Why are the effects of CS strong? There is an enormous amount of counterplay to cc in this game.

“They many times run in straight lines. We would have to use other phantasms that don’t move to guide people into getting hit.
"

WTF?

“Why are the effects of CS strong? There is an enormous amount of counterplay to cc in this game.”

Not against instant cast CCs. I’ve said this a thousand times but your like stability! Guess what? Can’t tell when to use it because it’s instant cast. Blinds! Same reason. Then you continue to say stability like it’s a valid thing after I already discussed why it isn’t. You must have said it a thousand times. You just don’t get it. Saying stability or dodge or blinds or whatever over and over and over again after it’s already been discussed is just funny. But stability! Blinds! Dodges! Stability! Blinds! Dodges! That’s like literately been the whole thread. When your ready to move on from this never ending stability! Blinds! Dodges! stuff then let me know…

You know full well the counterplay to an instant cast cc is a stunbreaker. You also know full well there are ways to eat the burst. You know full well there are mitigation skills that are also instant that are not stun breakers.

Give me an actual example. Please. I can’t say you are speaking in an anecdotal form because you don’t give examples. I can’t say you are being theoretical because you don’t give hypothetical examples.

For god sake please just give an example of what you are talking about. Because as far as I can tell you are advocating on behalf of berserker pew pew builds.

“You know full well the counterplay to an instant cast cc is a stunbreaker. You also know full well there are ways to eat the burst. You know full well there are mitigation skills that are also instant that are not stun breakers.”

Yes, but by the time you stunbreak and dodge the burst has already happend. And there are a few mitigations of damage skills out there but they normerly have long CDs and CS has two charges. As for hypothetical examples? A mesmer fights some class. he presses 3 buttens. He gets off a large burst or depending on the class it gets mitigated. Then when he has another burst up a little later he does the same thing except now the enemy has used his mitigation. 20 seconds later he can start casting MoD in stealth or later on. Anyway see the above by Quadox.7834. He/she has a very good point on it lowering the overall skill cap of mesmer in addition to the fact it totally blows the other traits there out of the water.

The burst is 2 seconds long. How you are not stunbreaking and dodging to avoid at least half is strange.

Sure you might be able to dodge after most of the burst has hit you depending on how far away the enemy is.

Fay.2357:

Quadox.7834:

Feel free to support Confounding Suggestions as it is now, i don’t mind.
_____________________________________________________
But know that, by doing so, you are effectively supporting:

- Mesmer class being easier, lower skill cap, smaller gap between a decent Mesmer and an amazing Mesmer, mechanically.

- Limiting build choices by having one much, MUCH better trait out of three.

This entire post is utter garbage. Allow me to explain why, in detail.

Let me explain the concept of a skill cap, since that obviously was lost in translation somewhere. A skill cap is a theoretical upper limit on the influence of player skill on playing a class. This is a result of a huge number of factors, not any one change.

Every class in the game, by the simple fact of GW2 mechanics, has a monstrously high skill cap. No player in this game can even remotely claim to have reached or approached that point for any class. It is absolute lunacy to state that the small interaction of a trait lowers the theoretical upper limit that hasn’t ever been reached.

In addition, it doesn’t make a smaller gap between a good Mesmer and a great mesmer at all. It’s always been possible to land burst on a Mesmer through various means, CS just makes it slightly easier. The primary gauge of skill on a Mesmer is surviving to land the next burst, not actually landing it.

This is a good thing!

If every aspect of a class was obscenely difficult to do, there would be no reason to play the class at all (aka Mesmer for the majority of this game). All classes should have aspects that are easier; for players to start with, and aspects that are harder; for players to master.

Limiting build choices is, if possible, even less coherent of an argument than the skill cap one. CS is a good trait. It is better than the other options at its level. However, did you ever consider that this disparity is caused by the fact that the other options are garbage-tier? …obviously not.

I’m saying it’s far easier to “master” mesmer when you have a trait like CS. So by changing it now you would go back to the old days where you actually had to be somewhat decent to land your burst. And rending shatter can be decent if you say compare it to what dueling has. Tho I think the two traits in domination could use a buff.

Daniel Handler.4816:

TheFrighteningFrenchFry.3275:

Daniel Handler.4816:

TheFrighteningFrenchFry.3275:

Daniel Handler.4816:

TheFrighteningFrenchFry.3275:

“Complex positioning of pets is too easy already. Lets make it so all phantasms are crippled by default. Raise the skill floor.”

Except that wouldn’t raise the skill floor. At all. I’m simply saying, add some counterplay to CS because currently it’s extremely easy to use and the opponent can do very little to negate it. So add some counterplay to it. If some guy is fighting vs CS he should be able to do something to try and avoid it if he is skilled enough sso that he can also avoid mesmers burst.Or actually probably a better suggestion made my someone was to just to totally change what CS does. Which I think is a pretty good idea. Would let us create a skill that doesn’t overshine on the other two traits there in addition to dealing with CS. If I could go with either my original suggestion or totally changing what CS does I’d probably go with the second one. The question is, what would you replace it with? Something that fits with mesmer. Any ideas welcome. How about on interrupt create a clone with a 5-10 second CD?

EDIT: At this point IDK why I am surprised. After all, some of these guys were trolling in that mesmer dungeon chronomancer thread

Yes it would, and by quite a lot. Reducing the movement abilities of illusions makes them easier to kite. It would make it so people had to concentrate more on positioning their Illusions. Right now the only time we have to focus on positioning is for a chain daze.

Your argument is anecdotal and doesnt explain what should and shouldn’t have skill floors in this game. Extremely easy to use and no counterplay:
Auras
Stances
Virtues
Stat buffs that activate upon entering combat
…. Etc

You have to come up with some better explanation dude.

I am trying to to give you the benefit of the doubt but you keep repeating a non explanation.

You want counterplay to raise the skill floor. Tell us why.

Except you can’t really control where your illusions are once they are out………something minor again. And why do I want counterplay AKA higher skill floor? Because right now the effects of the stun are strong.

@Ross Biddle

And yet, CS would actually still compete with the other trait options in that line…………

They many times run in straight lines. We would have to use other phantasms that don’t move to guide people into getting hit.

And now finally we are getting somewhere.

Why are the effects of CS strong? There is an enormous amount of counterplay to cc in this game.

“They many times run in straight lines. We would have to use other phantasms that don’t move to guide people into getting hit.
"

WTF?

“Why are the effects of CS strong? There is an enormous amount of counterplay to cc in this game.”

Not against instant cast CCs. I’ve said this a thousand times but your like stability! Guess what? Can’t tell when to use it because it’s instant cast. Blinds! Same reason. Then you continue to say stability like it’s a valid thing after I already discussed why it isn’t. You must have said it a thousand times. You just don’t get it. Saying stability or dodge or blinds or whatever over and over and over again after it’s already been discussed is just funny. But stability! Blinds! Dodges! Stability! Blinds! Dodges! That’s like literately been the whole thread. When your ready to move on from this never ending stability! Blinds! Dodges! stuff then let me know…

You know full well the counterplay to an instant cast cc is a stunbreaker. You also know full well there are ways to eat the burst. You know full well there are mitigation skills that are also instant that are not stun breakers.

Give me an actual example. Please. I can’t say you are speaking in an anecdotal form because you don’t give examples. I can’t say you are being theoretical because you don’t give hypothetical examples.

For god sake please just give an example of what you are talking about. Because as far as I can tell you are advocating on behalf of berserker pew pew builds.

“You know full well the counterplay to an instant cast cc is a stunbreaker. You also know full well there are ways to eat the burst. You know full well there are mitigation skills that are also instant that are not stun breakers.”

Yes, but by the time you stunbreak and dodge the burst has already happend. And there are a few mitigations of damage skills out there but they normerly have long CDs and CS has two charges. As for hypothetical examples? A mesmer fights some class. he presses 3 buttens. He gets off a large burst or depending on the class it gets mitigated. Then when he has another burst up a little later he does the same thing except now the enemy has used his mitigation. 20 seconds later he can start casting MoD in stealth or later on. Anyway see the above by Quadox.7834. He/she has a very good point on it lowering the overall skill cap of mesmer in addition to the fact it totally blows the other traits there out of the water.

skcamow.3527:

TheFrighteningFrenchFry.3275:

skcamow.3527:

I think they should halve the CD and open up mimic to function on all skills (except elite). That would keep low CD skills in check and make mimic a more compelling choice to take when considering longer CD skills.

This would give vanilla mesmer a bit of a chrono feel without having to fully spec chrono, and prob wouldn’t adversely affect a chrono (does have a utility cost after all).

If that doesn’t happen (probably won’t), I think the idea proposed is good.

By halving the CD do you mean on the skill you use after mimic or on mimic?

I meant on mimic itself. If not halved (might be too much), at least lower than the 90s default.

OK.

skcamow.3527:

I think they should halve the CD and open up mimic to function on all skills (except elite). That would keep low CD skills in check and make mimic a more compelling choice to take when considering longer CD skills.

This would give vanilla mesmer a bit of a chrono feel without having to fully spec chrono, and prob wouldn’t adversely affect a chrono (does have a utility cost after all).

If that doesn’t happen (probably won’t), I think the idea proposed is good.

By halving the CD do you mean on the skill you use after mimic or on mimic?

Quadox.7834:

But know that, by doing so, you are effectively supporting:

lower skill cap, smaller gap between a decent Mesmer and an amazing Mesmer, mechanically.

- Limiting build choices by having one much, MUCH better trait out of three.

Xaylin.1860:

I think it is artificially long because ANet is afraid that certain chained utilities are too strong. So making it an [X] cooldown might be too appealing when paired with already attractive low cooldown utilities. But they could make it [X+25-50%] or [X+Y] where Y equals a set number of seconds.

Yeah I was thinking about this so if nothing else Y could equal 5-10 seconds didn’t think about a percentage tho.

Actually a pretty good idea. I like it.

Ross Biddle.2367:

TheFrighteningFrenchFry.3275:

Daniel Handler.4816:

TheFrighteningFrenchFry.3275:

Daniel Handler.4816:

TheFrighteningFrenchFry.3275:

“Complex positioning of pets is too easy already. Lets make it so all phantasms are crippled by default. Raise the skill floor.”

Except that wouldn’t raise the skill floor. At all. I’m simply saying, add some counterplay to CS because currently it’s extremely easy to use and the opponent can do very little to negate it. So add some counterplay to it. If some guy is fighting vs CS he should be able to do something to try and avoid it if he is skilled enough sso that he can also avoid mesmers burst.Or actually probably a better suggestion made my someone was to just to totally change what CS does. Which I think is a pretty good idea. Would let us create a skill that doesn’t overshine on the other two traits there in addition to dealing with CS. If I could go with either my original suggestion or totally changing what CS does I’d probably go with the second one. The question is, what would you replace it with? Something that fits with mesmer. Any ideas welcome. How about on interrupt create a clone with a 5-10 second CD?

EDIT: At this point IDK why I am surprised. After all, some of these guys were trolling in that mesmer dungeon chronomancer thread

Yes it would, and by quite a lot. Reducing the movement abilities of illusions makes them easier to kite. It would make it so people had to concentrate more on positioning their Illusions. Right now the only time we have to focus on positioning is for a chain daze.

Your argument is anecdotal and doesnt explain what should and shouldn’t have skill floors in this game. Extremely easy to use and no counterplay:
Auras
Stances
Virtues
Stat buffs that activate upon entering combat
…. Etc

You have to come up with some better explanation dude.

I am trying to to give you the benefit of the doubt but you keep repeating a non explanation.

You want counterplay to raise the skill floor. Tell us why.

Except you can’t really control where your illusions are once they are out………something minor again. And why do I want counterplay AKA higher skill floor? Because right now the effects of the stun are strong.

@Ross Biddle

And yet, CS would actually still compete with the other trait options in that line…………

They many times run in straight lines. We would have to use other phantasms that don’t move to guide people into getting hit.

And now finally we are getting somewhere.

Why are the effects of CS strong? There is an enormous amount of counterplay to cc in this game.

“They many times run in straight lines. We would have to use other phantasms that don’t move to guide people into getting hit.
"

WTF?

“Why are the effects of CS strong? There is an enormous amount of counterplay to cc in this game.”

Not against instant cast CCs. I’ve said this a thousand times but your like stability! Guess what? Can’t tell when to use it because it’s instant cast.

Times when you use stability-

• When I see the GS wielding Mesmer with two MoD charges on his bar. Pop Dolyak signet to cover any instant stun interrupts, pop bezerker stance to cover any blinds, stick a killshot right between the Mesmers eyes. Not dead? Fire a volley, or swap to sword in melee range and final thrust his kitten . Also works great against thieves. Done it hundreds of times.

get stunned first?

• Pop Dolyak signet and dodge, pop zerker stance, don’t worry about whatever burst you just ate as even on a zerker ammy you’re running 21k+ health. Pop zerker ammy, stick a killshot right between the Mesmers eyes. Not dead? Fire a volley, or swap to sword in melee range and final thrust his kitten . Disengage using leaps + superior swiftness access. Also works great against thieves with bask venom. Done it hundreds of times.

And I mean, I’m not even a great warrior player. I don’t even run a meta warrior build. It’s closer to an anti meta build -_-u But please, continue to tell us how bad of a player you are.

’When I see the GS wielding Mesmer with two MoD charges on his bar. Pop Dolyak signet to cover any instant stun interrupts, pop bezerker stance to cover any blinds, stick a killshot right between the Mesmers eyes. Not dead? Fire a volley, or swap to sword in melee range and final thrust his kitten . Also works great against thieves. Done it hundreds of times."

Except then the mesmer just waits for the stability to end >.< Dodges killshot, fire volley or your weapon swap.

“get stunned first?

• Pop Dolyak signet and dodge, pop zerker stance, don’t worry about whatever burst you just ate as even on a zerker ammy you’re running 21k+ health. Pop zerker ammy, stick a killshot right between the Mesmers eyes. Not dead? Fire a volley, or swap to sword in melee range and final thrust his kitten . Disengage using leaps + superior swiftness access. Also works great against thieves with bask venom. Done it hundreds of times."

Or the mesmer can just dodge and then stun you later. As for disengage, warrior is pretty fast but you can at least strip some of there swiftness from say signet elite.

" But please, continue to tell us how bad of a player you are."

Yeah, ask Chaos and Alpha about that.

Daniel Handler.4816:

TheFrighteningFrenchFry.3275:

Daniel Handler.4816:

TheFrighteningFrenchFry.3275:

“Complex positioning of pets is too easy already. Lets make it so all phantasms are crippled by default. Raise the skill floor.”

Except that wouldn’t raise the skill floor. At all. I’m simply saying, add some counterplay to CS because currently it’s extremely easy to use and the opponent can do very little to negate it. So add some counterplay to it. If some guy is fighting vs CS he should be able to do something to try and avoid it if he is skilled enough sso that he can also avoid mesmers burst.Or actually probably a better suggestion made my someone was to just to totally change what CS does. Which I think is a pretty good idea. Would let us create a skill that doesn’t overshine on the other two traits there in addition to dealing with CS. If I could go with either my original suggestion or totally changing what CS does I’d probably go with the second one. The question is, what would you replace it with? Something that fits with mesmer. Any ideas welcome. How about on interrupt create a clone with a 5-10 second CD?

EDIT: At this point IDK why I am surprised. After all, some of these guys were trolling in that mesmer dungeon chronomancer thread

Yes it would, and by quite a lot. Reducing the movement abilities of illusions makes them easier to kite. It would make it so people had to concentrate more on positioning their Illusions. Right now the only time we have to focus on positioning is for a chain daze.

Your argument is anecdotal and doesnt explain what should and shouldn’t have skill floors in this game. Extremely easy to use and no counterplay:
Auras
Stances
Virtues
Stat buffs that activate upon entering combat
…. Etc

You have to come up with some better explanation dude.

I am trying to to give you the benefit of the doubt but you keep repeating a non explanation.

You want counterplay to raise the skill floor. Tell us why.

Except you can’t really control where your illusions are once they are out………something minor again. And why do I want counterplay AKA higher skill floor? Because right now the effects of the stun are strong.

@Ross Biddle

And yet, CS would actually still compete with the other trait options in that line…………

They many times run in straight lines. We would have to use other phantasms that don’t move to guide people into getting hit.

And now finally we are getting somewhere.

Why are the effects of CS strong? There is an enormous amount of counterplay to cc in this game.

“They many times run in straight lines. We would have to use other phantasms that don’t move to guide people into getting hit.
"

WTF?

“Why are the effects of CS strong? There is an enormous amount of counterplay to cc in this game.”

Not against instant cast CCs. I’ve said this a thousand times but your like stability! Guess what? Can’t tell when to use it because it’s instant cast. Blinds! Same reason. Then you continue to say stability like it’s a valid thing after I already discussed why it isn’t. You must have said it a thousand times. You just don’t get it. Saying stability or dodge or blinds or whatever over and over and over again after it’s already been discussed is just funny. But stability! Blinds! Dodges! Stability! Blinds! Dodges! That’s like literately been the whole thread. When your ready to move on from this never ending stability! Blinds! Dodges! stuff then let me know…

Korusef.3714:

TheFrighteningFrenchFry.3275:

Except that wouldn’t raise the skill floor. At all. I’m simply saying, add some counterplay to CS because currently it’s extremely easy to use and the opponent can do very little to negate it. So add some counterplay to it. If some guy is fighting vs CS he should be able to do something to try and avoid it if he is skilled enough sso that he can also avoid mesmers burst.

Pre-emptive counters: LoS, Stealth, Block, Blind, Stab, Anti cc-traits
Active counters: Stun breaks

It seems to me you have plenty of ways how a skilled player could counter CS.

The problem with stun breaks is there isn’t enough time vs CS people who have played it for like 1 hour. And out of all the stuff you mention for pre emptive counters only anti cc traits work because the other ones you won’t have up 100% of the time. But even anti cc-traits means going up in potentially not so good lines in addition to the fact the long CD compared to CS.

Daniel Handler.4816:

TheFrighteningFrenchFry.3275:

“Complex positioning of pets is too easy already. Lets make it so all phantasms are crippled by default. Raise the skill floor.”

Except that wouldn’t raise the skill floor. At all. I’m simply saying, add some counterplay to CS because currently it’s extremely easy to use and the opponent can do very little to negate it. So add some counterplay to it. If some guy is fighting vs CS he should be able to do something to try and avoid it if he is skilled enough sso that he can also avoid mesmers burst.Or actually probably a better suggestion made my someone was to just to totally change what CS does. Which I think is a pretty good idea. Would let us create a skill that doesn’t overshine on the other two traits there in addition to dealing with CS. If I could go with either my original suggestion or totally changing what CS does I’d probably go with the second one. The question is, what would you replace it with? Something that fits with mesmer. Any ideas welcome. How about on interrupt create a clone with a 5-10 second CD?

EDIT: At this point IDK why I am surprised. After all, some of these guys were trolling in that mesmer dungeon chronomancer thread

Yes it would, and by quite a lot. Reducing the movement abilities of illusions makes them easier to kite. It would make it so people had to concentrate more on positioning their Illusions. Right now the only time we have to focus on positioning is for a chain daze.

Your argument is anecdotal and doesnt explain what should and shouldn’t have skill floors in this game. Extremely easy to use and no counterplay:
Auras
Stances
Virtues
Stat buffs that activate upon entering combat
…. Etc

You have to come up with some better explanation dude.

I am trying to to give you the benefit of the doubt but you keep repeating a non explanation.

You want counterplay to raise the skill floor. Tell us why.

Except you can’t really control where your illusions are once they are out………something minor again. And why do I want counterplay AKA higher skill floor? Because right now the effects of the stun are strong.

@Ross Biddle

And yet, CS would actually still compete with the other trait options in that line…………

“Complex positioning of pets is too easy already. Lets make it so all phantasms are crippled by default. Raise the skill floor.”

Except that wouldn’t raise the skill floor. At all. I’m simply saying, add some counterplay to CS because currently it’s extremely easy to use and the opponent can do very little to negate it. So add some counterplay to it. If some guy is fighting vs CS he should be able to do something to try and avoid it if he is skilled enough sso that he can also avoid mesmers burst.Or actually probably a better suggestion made my someone was to just to totally change what CS does. Which I think is a pretty good idea. Would let us create a skill that doesn’t overshine on the other two traits there in addition to dealing with CS. If I could go with either my original suggestion or totally changing what CS does I’d probably go with the second one. The question is, what would you replace it with? Something that fits with mesmer. Any ideas welcome. How about on interrupt create a clone with a 5-10 second CD?

EDIT: At this point IDK why I am surprised. After all, some of these guys were trolling in that mesmer dungeon chronomancer thread

Fay.2357:

TheFrighteningFrenchFry.3275:

Daniel Handler.4816:

Hard stop. Show us proof of negative impact on the game other than a lower skill floor.

You argue all of these semantic but where is any proof.

You have not even had the audacity to show theoretical proof.

Every single comment you made is on anecdotal experience. And we have seen the number of incorrect conclusions from that.

Revenant, mesmer, engie can all have near perma stability. And the non mesmer perma is tied to passive play.

More importantly every single class in the freaking game has a trait that responds to being cced. Some classes even have two.

The kicker to this maelstrom of logic is that you want to balance around wvw. Where stability is readily available for the melee train. You want to balance it for the backline that gets ganked despite evidence such as the pirate ship meta that this would further destabilize the mode. Guarding the backline is part of the strategy of WvW and you seem to just want to make pew pew easier.

’Revenant, mesmer, engie can all have near perma stability. And the non mesmer perma is tied to passive play."

At a pretty high cost such as camping FL etc. And not just WvW zergs. Both WvW roaming and dueling arenas in PvP. in fact not about zerging really at all.

“More importantly every single class in the freaking game has a trait that responds to being cced. Some classes even have two.”

And how many of them do you actually want to take that whole traitline for? All I want is some more counterplay but I guess that’s ridiculous lol.

@Fay

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/mesmer/Confounding-Suggestions-Suggestion/first

Well you can start complaining about this “proof” or whatever when you give some “proof” as to why you would have nerfed it in that thread. Litterly, why would I change it? What reason? Already gave it to you. More counterplay.

Sure thing! Unlike you, I can always stand behind my ideas with solid arguments.

Too many Mesmer mechanics are inordinately skewed towards single target effectiveness. CS is no exception; stun one person aaaaaand that’s it. I wanted to balance it more between multi-target effectiveness and single target effectiveness. Simply making the icd local would drastically boost its strength far too much, so the simple fix is to adjust the icd so that the maximum rate of stunning balances out well for a small group fight, and scales up smoothly into a large fight.

Edit: it’s also worth mentioning that I floated that idea before Mesmer received a string of hefty nerfs to our burst capabilities. At that time, we absolutely were overturned. Now…well, you’ve missed that ship by a couple months.

All that was just your opinion. Sry. Proof! :P

@Daniel

Why do I think CS should have more counterplay? Because it would promote more skill. If you good enough instead of eating a stun you can cancel cast your abilities.

Daniel Handler.4816:

Hard stop. Show us proof of negative impact on the game other than a lower skill floor.

You argue all of these semantic but where is any proof.

You have not even had the audacity to show theoretical proof.

Every single comment you made is on anecdotal experience. And we have seen the number of incorrect conclusions from that.

Revenant, mesmer, engie can all have near perma stability. And the non mesmer perma is tied to passive play.

More importantly every single class in the freaking game has a trait that responds to being cced. Some classes even have two.

The kicker to this maelstrom of logic is that you want to balance around wvw. Where stability is readily available for the melee train. You want to balance it for the backline that gets ganked despite evidence such as the pirate ship meta that this would further destabilize the mode. Guarding the backline is part of the strategy of WvW and you seem to just want to make pew pew easier.

’Revenant, mesmer, engie can all have near perma stability. And the non mesmer perma is tied to passive play."

At a pretty high cost such as camping FL etc. And not just WvW zergs. Both WvW roaming and dueling arenas in PvP. in fact not about zerging really at all.

“More importantly every single class in the freaking game has a trait that responds to being cced. Some classes even have two.”

And how many of them do you actually want to take that whole traitline for? All I want is some more counterplay but I guess that’s ridiculous lol.

@Fay

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/mesmer/Confounding-Suggestions-Suggestion/first

Well you can start complaining about this “proof” or whatever when you give some “proof” as to why you would have nerfed it in that thread. Litterly, why would I change it? What reason? Already gave it to you. More counterplay.

AlphatheWhite.9351:

TheFrighteningFrenchFry.3275:

First you have to get up 100% stability duration, and even then, you can just use your f2 shatter to attempt to remove it.

1. No, you don’t. You just need enough stability to not get stunned exactly when the mesmer wants you to. If the first 5s of the engagement you have stability, that’s 5s you can be fully effective, and the mesmer cannot. Permanent stability would, in fact, be a total hard counter to CS and interrupt builds without any boon rip.
2. I already asked you why you can “just use your f2 shatter” when that destroys the illusions you need for your burst (that, or it doesn’t guarantee the stability gets cleared, since SC only strips one boon per illusion). You didn’t answer, so this point is already dead in the water.

TheFrighteningFrenchFry.3275:

but the point is only one build I can think of ( BD on mesmer ) can keep up even close to permanent stability.

See above, don’t need permanent stability. You just need enough to open up counterplay.

TheFrighteningFrenchFry.3275:

Either way I still feel like there is a difference between the two traits.

You can feel it all you want, doesn’t make it true. The truth is that Anet has almost never considered being in different trees to be a sufficient differentiator (all exceptions have had very, very specific reasons). And for good reason.

TheFrighteningFrenchFry.3275:

The only other idea to add more counterplay to CS is to completely change what it does which actually seems like a good idea.

Your penchant for hyperbole is weird. Saying there’s only one other idea, then mentioning a different one right after that? Come on, man.

TheFrighteningFrenchFry.3275:

As for swapping CS and FI you could do that but CS would still have just as much counterplay as before.

WTH, man?
Your biggest argument against existing counterplay is boon strip on f2, which you just mentioned above. But swapping CS and FI means no boon strip on f2, which automatically increases counterplay against CS, which means by definition that CS won’t “have just as much counterplay as before”.
I already said this, and you flat-out ignored me! What is your problem??

‘I already asked you why you can “just use your f2 shatter” when that destroys the illusions you need for your burst (that, or it doesn’t guarantee the stability gets cleared, since SC only strips one boon per illusion). You didn’t answer, so this point is already dead in the water."

I suppose you have like 0 illusions out 100% of the time?!?!??!?!?!?!?!? Clone generation my friend, clone generation! And you leave out one teeny tiny thing in your post about stability. You need to know when the mesmer is going to stun you. Just something minor. xD

“WTH, man?
Your biggest argument against existing counterplay is boon strip on f2, which you just mentioned above. But swapping CS and FI means no boon strip on f2, which automatically increases counterplay against CS, which means by definition that CS won’t “have just as much counterplay as before”.
I already said this, and you flat-out ignored me! What is your problem??"

Again, let’s totally ignore the fact you just need to know somehow when to pop the stability when its instant cast…..and its not even gap closer so its not even close to as easy to predict as steal from some newer players……OK. Sounds great.

“’I already asked you why you can “just use your f2 shatter” when that destroys the illusions you need for your burst (that, or it doesn’t guarantee the stability gets cleared, since SC only strips one boon per illusion). You didn’t answer, so this point is already dead in the water.""

Again, just need to know when to pop the stability. Minor

’Your penchant for hyperbole is weird. Saying there’s only one other idea, then mentioning a different one right after that? Come on, man."

A different one? I said a different one which adds more counterplay. Minor difference…

“You can feel it all you want, doesn’t make it true. The truth is that Anet has almost never considered being in different trees to be a sufficient differentiator (all exceptions have had very, very specific reasons). And for good reason.”

It’s not two exactly the same traits its two traits which can accomplsih the same thing with one also doing other stuff in addition. Which is why totally changing what CS does might actually be a better idea if you really think it’s a huge deal.

“So.. Should we nerf Decoy and all forms of stealth?”

Except for the fact stealth only lasts so long.

They both have animations……..lol

“Nerf teamfights?”

WTF? How does that have to do with anything I’m saying?!?!?!?!?!?!??!?!?!?!?!??!?!?!?!?!?!?

’And this is all assuming a duel. How easy is it to dodge a regular GS burst if you didn’t see the mes coming in the first place?"

Seeing as CS + MoD isn’t really taken in PvP why not balance it around where it is taken?

“Again.. There are way worse things in this game to worry about.”

I even said that but this is just something i noticed so i was pointing it out.

AlphatheWhite.9351:

TheFrighteningFrenchFry.3275:

Yes they are pretty close but CI also does other stuff too. Anyway Quadox also has a good suggestion. We could just totally change the trait. That’s another way to do it and actually not a bad idea. Might make the other traits there actually have some use.

So, you’re saying that not only is CI essentially the same (but with no icd) as your proposed CS, but it’s strictly better because CI does other stuff too?

Alternatively, swapping CS with Furious Interruption would also make the other traits there actually have some use, and it would make Furious Interruption have some use, and it would make CS have more of a cost of use, and it would remove the most significant source of boon rip mesmers have if they want CS, which would deal with your concern that stability is not a valid counter to CS (since mesmers would then only be able to boon rip with sword AA, which is hardly a skill-less exchange).

Speaking of that boon rip, why do you think boon rip is a good counter to stability for CS users? The only good source of boon rip we have for burst play is Shattered Concentration, but using a shatter to tear down stability before you hit them with MoD just means you won’t have illusions up for the burst on CS, does it not? So then you’re playing a back-and-forth timing game, trying to carefully thread the needle on exactly when to drop the rip shatter, then spawn illusions, then MoD, then burst…and at that point, you’ve reentered the domain of skill and counterplay that you’re so concerned about.

First you have to get up 100% stability duration, and even then, you can just use your f2 shatter to attempt to remove it. but the point is only one build I can think of ( BD on mesmer ) can keep up even close to permanent stability. And CI is a trait in chaos CS is a triat in domination. If you do run just a shatter build then your going to take just CS and if you go full interrupt your going to take CI and then in that case that opens up room for the other two traits in domination. Either way I still feel like there is a difference between the two traits. The only other idea to add more counterplay to CS is to completely change what it does which actually seems like a good idea. As for swapping CS and FI you could do that but CS would still have just as much counterplay as before. Quite honestly this idea of totally changing CS seems to be a good idea.

EDIT: and how do you know when that fraction of a second is? Making it on interrupt would totally make it have more counterplay.

Fay.2357:

Ok, this is really bugging me. I’ve gone over this before, but obviously I didn’t do it in simple enough language for it to stick.

Why making CS an interrupt trait is a bad idea, now with shorter words

CS does a stun.

CI does an immobilize.

A stun is a cc and an immob.

CI does an immob from a cc.

CI does a cc and an immob.

If CS was on interrupt, CS would do a stun and a cc.

A stun and a cc is the same as a cc and an immob.

CS and CI would do the same thing.

Doing the same thing is bad.

Bad things should not be done.

Making CS on interrupt is bad, and so it should not be done.

Yes they are pretty close but CI also does other stuff too. Anyway Quadox also has a good suggestion. We could just totally change the trait. That’s another way to do it and actually not a bad idea. Might make the other traits there actually have some use.

Chaos Archangel.5071:

I think this video is a good example of why CS doesn’t need to be nerfed:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6fO8M0B4BIc

That, right there, is what people are complaining about. That’s pretty much the same whether or not you stun them.

Except you can dodge it unless they use CS……

@Ross Biddle

“Exactly.

If that Golem had CS equipped with MoD, he could have shut that Mesmers burst down hard and counter burst.

Which is both very important, and very healthy for the game."

And what counterplay would there have been? Now obviously it was a mesmer so you could f4 but what about other classes? And then repeat that 8-12 seconds later.

“Why you assert that lowering the skill level is bad (FOO strategies are a legit part of balance)”

Yes, I understand some guys like to feel big and strong ( even when there not ), but that doesn’t mean there can’t be counterplay to that. Which leads us to the next thing….

’Why you continue to assert there isnt adequate ways to counter MoD stuns now when it’s already been stated there are numerous ways?"

You mentioned a whole bunch of stuff earlier in the thread. Basically it comes down to: can you maintain 100% stability uptime even with the mesmer stripping stability? Yes? Then that’s how you counter it. If not, GL predicting it when it can happen any time. It’s not like thief steal where you can just dodge whenever there’s a decent gap between you and him. So why not make it on interrupt so now you cancel cast your skills to add some counterplay? Because then lockdown gets nerfed? I even said you can buff some other mesmer thing.

“Why you assert MoD stuns dont require an adequate level of skill as is?”

Are you seriously trying to say pressing your stun button when your about to burst is hard? Or anywhere close to hard?

EDIT: I feel like this is repeating loop. Stabiltiy! GL on 100% uptime especially with mesmer boon stripping with shatter. But blinds! He can remove that pretty easy especially with GS. But dodge! Gl predicting it when it can happen anytime nor is it like steal. But then it comes close to what CI is! No, CI applies immob + one random condition + 5 might + one random boon. But but but! Then you can…. apply stability! Blinds!

Fay.2357:

TheFrighteningFrenchFry.3275:

Ross Biddle.2367:

So its time for another summary.

Frenchfry’s beef pretty much boils down to-

• “I want more counterplay to CS”

Ignoring, despite it having been pointed out, that there are numerous counters. The question thus becomes “How much more?” Though it’s not been asked/answered, the preemptive argument tacked on to the previously stated “I want more counterplay” is-

• “I don’t want to see mesmer butchered into oblivion. Hell, have some more buffs if you want, on me!”

So in exchange for playing a high risk, glass, high damage based build that can truly utilize the CC effect of CS under MoD, we can have…. more damage? More blinks? More evades? What I want to know is, what good is more of any of this in a high risk build where the landing of your burst is everything? And not just your role, but your very survival depends on your ability to land that burst to apply pressure. Failure to do so means you’re at a severe disadvantage.

More over, MoD + CS is hardly just an offensive tool. It can be used simply to create breathing room (get that thief off your back for a second to pop a heal), or to stop someone getting away (stun into iLeap imob), no damage necessary. The fact you think all MoD + CS charges are spent on GS bursts only further cements the ignorance of the realities within actual gameplay you’ve continued throughout this discussion. If I had a dollar for every MoD charge I’ve had to burn saving a downed allie, or getting a GS warrior off my back, Id buy Bill Gates.

And all this is still ignoring all the counterplay that is present in the game… -_-u

Like I said, you really undermined yourself early on in this discussion. You used CS early on after patch and haven’t touched it since. CS is a great trait, it has good synergy with MoD, and even better in skilled hands with MA or PB. But given the rest of Mesmers features as they currently stand, it’s hardly some one shot, CS/MoD wins all OP powerhouse that requires changing, or at least changing in any way which you’ve suggested thus far.

And I’m sure there is plenty of ways you could buff mesmer.

Apparently not, they’ve already nerfed most of the options available for buffing, somehow I don’t think they’re going to turn around and lay on buffs again…

You honestly don’t think there’s a way to buff mesmer?

Ross Biddle.2367:

So its time for another summary.

Frenchfry’s beef pretty much boils down to-

• “I want more counterplay to CS”

Ignoring, despite it having been pointed out, that there are numerous counters. The question thus becomes “How much more?” Though it’s not been asked/answered, the preemptive argument tacked on to the previously stated “I want more counterplay” is-

• “I don’t want to see mesmer butchered into oblivion. Hell, have some more buffs if you want, on me!”

So in exchange for playing a high risk, glass, high damage based build that can truly utilize the CC effect of CS under MoD, we can have…. more damage? More blinks? More evades? What I want to know is, what good is more of any of this in a high risk build where the landing of your burst is everything? And not just your role, but your very survival depends on your ability to land that burst to apply pressure. Failure to do so means you’re at a severe disadvantage.

More over, MoD + CS is hardly just an offensive tool. It can be used simply to create breathing room (get that thief off your back for a second to pop a heal), or to stop someone getting away (stun into iLeap imob), no damage necessary. The fact you think all MoD + CS charges are spent on GS bursts only further cements the ignorance of the realities within actual gameplay you’ve continued throughout this discussion. If I had a dollar for every MoD charge I’ve had to burn saving a downed allie, or getting a GS warrior off my back, Id buy Bill Gates.

And all this is still ignoring all the counterplay that is present in the game… -_-u

Like I said, you really undermined yourself early on in this discussion. You used CS early on after patch and haven’t touched it since. CS is a great trait, it has good synergy with MoD, and even better in skilled hands with MA or PB. But given the rest of Mesmers features as they currently stand, it’s hardly some one shot, CS/MoD wins all OP powerhouse that requires changing, or at least changing in any way which you’ve suggested thus far.

CS has very litte counterplay.

“So in exchange for playing a high risk, glass, high damage based build that can truly utilize the CC effect of CS under MoD, we can have…. more damage? More blinks? More evades? What I want to know is, what good is more of any of this in a high risk build where the landing of your burst is everything?”

It once took skill to land your burst. With CS this has dropped a lot. Either add some more counterplay or make CS somehow still take more skill. And I’m sure there is plenty of ways you could buff mesmer.

Daniel Handler.4816:

TheFrighteningFrenchFry.3275:

Daniel Handler.4816:

TheFrighteningFrenchFry.3275:

Daniel Handler.4816:

TheFrighteningFrenchFry.3275:

Daniel Handler.4816:

TheFrighteningFrenchFry.3275:

Khyber.1284:

Oddly I’ve never seen anyone complain about MoD, Well until now. Why can’t I just be a mesmer in peace!?!?

If your referring to me I ain’t complaining about MoD. I’m complaining about CS. And I said you can buff some other mesmer thing so you can be in peace.

@Silverkey

Basilisk venom has a longer CD ( granted not by much depending on how long you wait to use your second charge ), is an elite, and you can more easily predict steal from newer players if they aren’t in stealth. And with MoD you can save your second charge for later. In addition this is presuming he uses steal and not some other skill that has a animation if he isn’t in stealth. Or the thief could use a stealth ability but some classes can interrupt that.

You mean BV takes up an elite slot and neither class is centered around which elites they must take. The survival of one is reduced versus the survival of another. They get three survival based utilities we are limited to two. There is no cd on their burst, there is on ours. Your comparison is lacking.

Silverkey was the guy trying to make the comparison between BV and MoD with CS not me. I’m a bit confused as to what your saying. My whole thing tho with elite comparison is BV is a ELITE which is supposed to be more powerful than a utility. And by burst I presume you mean backstab? That does have a CD. It’s called the CD of revealed + them getting stealth.

I know what he said. I am saying your response was inadequate.

A five second burst is the exact limit that MoD places upon its users. Mesmers however don’t have a five second burst. And to gain the potential of basilisk they give up a utility slot.

The only benefit MoD has is the secondary charges. The thief is still overall better off.

You asked me about burst with no counterplay. By your logic BV is one of said bursts. So is any medi guard nonsense. Any burst class will use a stun or an immobilize, the counter is stunbreakers or cleanse.

“A five second burst is the exact limit that MoD places upon its users.”

Confused as to what your saying here. Are you saying MoD gives off a five second burst window?

“Mesmers however don’t have a five second burst.”

yeah they don’t have any abilities that have a five second channel. Is that what your saying? You have to be more clear.

“And to gain the potential of basilisk they give up a utility slot.”

Yeah, meanwhile thieves give up a elite spot.

“The only benefit MoD has is the secondary charges. The thief is still overall better off.”

How so? MoD has a shorter CD than BV unless you wait a while to use your second charge. In addition you can dodge the thieves attacks so there is a lot of counterplay unlike CS.

“You asked me about burst with no counterplay. By your logic BV is one of said bursts. So is any medi guard nonsense. Any burst class will use a stun or an immobilize, the counter is stunbreakers or cleanse.”

Except you can dodge most stuns or immobilizes. CS however doesn’t have a animation. And the counter isn’t stunbreakers or cleanses if you don’t have time before your bursted.

Sorry bout that.

MoD would be more useful on a thief. They can burst every 5 seconds. Mesmers cannot so you are asking for them to hold onto their charge for another 20 seconds to get the next greatsword burst up. On first engagement BV has a shorter cooldown. If you know your stuff you can time it so BV has 20 seconds left. You can also instantly recharge it on a 1 in 5 chance with each steal.

The fact BV is an elite is not a curse but a benefit. Mesmers would greatly prefer MoD was an elite. Our elites are situational, not a regular aspect of the build like a thief.

It also makes me wonder why if such action was so easy why the community moved away from using mantras and towards MA+PU.

Lethality is the question. Not quality of use.

Hardly 20 seconds for another GS burst.

’The fact BV is an elite is not a curse but a benefit. Mesmers would greatly prefer MoD was an elite. Our elites are situational, not a regular aspect of the build like a thief."

I wouldn’t say this at all. Mass invisibility is great.

’ On first engagement BV has a shorter cooldown."

True, on first engagement. But the main point is there is counterplay to BV because most of the thief’s attacks have animations. The exception is steal. I would argue vs bad thieves this is pretty easy to predict they all just blow it at range pretty predictably. Not to mention you only need one stunbreak for BV compared to the two charges of MoD with CS. And the idea is elites are supposed to be more powerful than utilities.

@Silverkey

“I would argue that in many cases, the utility slot is more expensive than the elite slot (because of the few elite choices).”

I would hardly say that. Elites are supposed to be more powerful than utilities pretty sure.

“You can hardly dodge “steal”, so the initial burst is exactly as counterable for both professions. As for “thief is better off”, then we start to get into sloppy discussions.

The fact is simply that a-net gave stealth, burst and an instant disabling skill to both mesmer and thief. There is no ton of counterplay to the initial burst but one burst won’t kill you and there is enough time between the bursts for you to recover and start to retaliate."

Now you force the thief to use steal. And like I said you only need one stunbreak for this compared to two charge of MoD. And I would aruge it’s easier to predict newer thieves steal ( they all pop it at range ) compared to MoD.

“There is no problem in high MMR, as shown by the fact that most mesmers there do not use MoD.”

Exactly my point, which is why I think it should get balanced around where it is taken ( WvW ).

’There are plenty of not-so-hard to play but powerful-if-not-countered-properly specs in the game."

But that’s my hole problem, there isn’t much of a counter in some specs vs CS. That’s all I’m wanting and I feel like half the people in the thread think I’m simply wanting to butcher mesmer into oblivion. Simply add some counterplay to CS and buff some other mesmer thing and I’d be happy.

A GS burst without the phantasm is hardly a burst especially after the mirror blade nerf.

To argue around WvW is absolutely ridiculous when the entirety of counterplay to casters is stunning and ganking them. This is a well known part of wvw that has existed before CS even existed.These same people will die to immobilize. All of the effects of this trait and immobilize are not geared towards the melee train, so it seems you have some sort of hangup on protecting low health classes from being ganked.

Your concept of elites is just wrong. The more powerful a skill the higher its cd/initiative/energy. Signet of Stone is a stronger skills than entangle. Elite literally means that it occupies an additional slot at this point.

Why would I care about losing mass invisibility when I could have Portal, decoy, blink, mod?

’A GS burst without the phantasm is hardly a burst especially after the mirror blade nerf."

You don’t need a phantasm to burst.

“To argue around WvW is absolutely ridiculous when the entirety of counterplay to casters is stunning and ganking them. This is a well known part of wvw that has existed before CS even existed.These same people will die to immobilize. All of the effects of this trait and immobilize are not geared towards the melee train, so it seems you have some sort of hangup on protecting low health classes from being ganked.
"

More like around 1v1s in general. Both WvW and dueling arenas.

“Your concept of elites is just wrong. The more powerful a skill the higher its cd/initiative/energy. Signet of Stone is a stronger skills than entangle. Elite literally means that it occupies an additional slot at this point.

Why would I care about losing mass invisibility when I could have Portal, decoy, blink, mod?"

But BV does have a longer CD.

Daniel Handler.4816:

TheFrighteningFrenchFry.3275:

Daniel Handler.4816:

TheFrighteningFrenchFry.3275:

Daniel Handler.4816:

TheFrighteningFrenchFry.3275:

Khyber.1284:

Oddly I’ve never seen anyone complain about MoD, Well until now. Why can’t I just be a mesmer in peace!?!?

If your referring to me I ain’t complaining about MoD. I’m complaining about CS. And I said you can buff some other mesmer thing so you can be in peace.

@Silverkey

Basilisk venom has a longer CD ( granted not by much depending on how long you wait to use your second charge ), is an elite, and you can more easily predict steal from newer players if they aren’t in stealth. And with MoD you can save your second charge for later. In addition this is presuming he uses steal and not some other skill that has a animation if he isn’t in stealth. Or the thief could use a stealth ability but some classes can interrupt that.

You mean BV takes up an elite slot and neither class is centered around which elites they must take. The survival of one is reduced versus the survival of another. They get three survival based utilities we are limited to two. There is no cd on their burst, there is on ours. Your comparison is lacking.

Silverkey was the guy trying to make the comparison between BV and MoD with CS not me. I’m a bit confused as to what your saying. My whole thing tho with elite comparison is BV is a ELITE which is supposed to be more powerful than a utility. And by burst I presume you mean backstab? That does have a CD. It’s called the CD of revealed + them getting stealth.

I know what he said. I am saying your response was inadequate.

A five second burst is the exact limit that MoD places upon its users. Mesmers however don’t have a five second burst. And to gain the potential of basilisk they give up a utility slot.

The only benefit MoD has is the secondary charges. The thief is still overall better off.

You asked me about burst with no counterplay. By your logic BV is one of said bursts. So is any medi guard nonsense. Any burst class will use a stun or an immobilize, the counter is stunbreakers or cleanse.

“A five second burst is the exact limit that MoD places upon its users.”

Confused as to what your saying here. Are you saying MoD gives off a five second burst window?

“Mesmers however don’t have a five second burst.”

yeah they don’t have any abilities that have a five second channel. Is that what your saying? You have to be more clear.

“And to gain the potential of basilisk they give up a utility slot.”

Yeah, meanwhile thieves give up a elite spot.

“The only benefit MoD has is the secondary charges. The thief is still overall better off.”

How so? MoD has a shorter CD than BV unless you wait a while to use your second charge. In addition you can dodge the thieves attacks so there is a lot of counterplay unlike CS.

“You asked me about burst with no counterplay. By your logic BV is one of said bursts. So is any medi guard nonsense. Any burst class will use a stun or an immobilize, the counter is stunbreakers or cleanse.”

Except you can dodge most stuns or immobilizes. CS however doesn’t have a animation. And the counter isn’t stunbreakers or cleanses if you don’t have time before your bursted.

Sorry bout that.

MoD would be more useful on a thief. They can burst every 5 seconds. Mesmers cannot so you are asking for them to hold onto their charge for another 20 seconds to get the next greatsword burst up. On first engagement BV has a shorter cooldown. If you know your stuff you can time it so BV has 20 seconds left. You can also instantly recharge it on a 1 in 5 chance with each steal.

The fact BV is an elite is not a curse but a benefit. Mesmers would greatly prefer MoD was an elite. Our elites are situational, not a regular aspect of the build like a thief.

It also makes me wonder why if such action was so easy why the community moved away from using mantras and towards MA+PU.

Lethality is the question. Not quality of use.

Hardly 20 seconds for another GS burst.

’The fact BV is an elite is not a curse but a benefit. Mesmers would greatly prefer MoD was an elite. Our elites are situational, not a regular aspect of the build like a thief."

I wouldn’t say this at all. Mass invisibility is great.

’ On first engagement BV has a shorter cooldown."

True, on first engagement. But the main point is there is counterplay to BV because most of the thief’s attacks have animations. The exception is steal. I would argue vs bad thieves this is pretty easy to predict they all just blow it at range pretty predictably. Not to mention you only need one stunbreak for BV compared to the two charges of MoD with CS. And the idea is elites are supposed to be more powerful than utilities.

@Silverkey

“I would argue that in many cases, the utility slot is more expensive than the elite slot (because of the few elite choices).”

I would hardly say that. Elites are supposed to be more powerful than utilities pretty sure.

“You can hardly dodge “steal”, so the initial burst is exactly as counterable for both professions. As for “thief is better off”, then we start to get into sloppy discussions.

The fact is simply that a-net gave stealth, burst and an instant disabling skill to both mesmer and thief. There is no ton of counterplay to the initial burst but one burst won’t kill you and there is enough time between the bursts for you to recover and start to retaliate."

Now you force the thief to use steal. And like I said you only need one stunbreak for this compared to two charge of MoD. And I would aruge it’s easier to predict newer thieves steal ( they all pop it at range ) compared to MoD.

“There is no problem in high MMR, as shown by the fact that most mesmers there do not use MoD.”

Exactly my point, which is why I think it should get balanced around where it is taken ( WvW ).

’There are plenty of not-so-hard to play but powerful-if-not-countered-properly specs in the game."

But that’s my hole problem, there isn’t much of a counter in some specs vs CS. That’s all I’m wanting and I feel like half the people in the thread think I’m simply wanting to butcher mesmer into oblivion. Simply add some counterplay to CS and buff some other mesmer thing and I’d be happy.

Is it not personal story, big maps to farm and grind for gold, or PvP balancing? Then they aren’t supporting it.

Daniel Handler.4816:

TheFrighteningFrenchFry.3275:

Daniel Handler.4816:

TheFrighteningFrenchFry.3275:

Khyber.1284:

Oddly I’ve never seen anyone complain about MoD, Well until now. Why can’t I just be a mesmer in peace!?!?

If your referring to me I ain’t complaining about MoD. I’m complaining about CS. And I said you can buff some other mesmer thing so you can be in peace.

@Silverkey

Basilisk venom has a longer CD ( granted not by much depending on how long you wait to use your second charge ), is an elite, and you can more easily predict steal from newer players if they aren’t in stealth. And with MoD you can save your second charge for later. In addition this is presuming he uses steal and not some other skill that has a animation if he isn’t in stealth. Or the thief could use a stealth ability but some classes can interrupt that.

You mean BV takes up an elite slot and neither class is centered around which elites they must take. The survival of one is reduced versus the survival of another. They get three survival based utilities we are limited to two. There is no cd on their burst, there is on ours. Your comparison is lacking.

Silverkey was the guy trying to make the comparison between BV and MoD with CS not me. I’m a bit confused as to what your saying. My whole thing tho with elite comparison is BV is a ELITE which is supposed to be more powerful than a utility. And by burst I presume you mean backstab? That does have a CD. It’s called the CD of revealed + them getting stealth.

I know what he said. I am saying your response was inadequate.

A five second burst is the exact limit that MoD places upon its users. Mesmers however don’t have a five second burst. And to gain the potential of basilisk they give up a utility slot.

The only benefit MoD has is the secondary charges. The thief is still overall better off.

You asked me about burst with no counterplay. By your logic BV is one of said bursts. So is any medi guard nonsense. Any burst class will use a stun or an immobilize, the counter is stunbreakers or cleanse.

“A five second burst is the exact limit that MoD places upon its users.”

Confused as to what your saying here. Are you saying MoD gives off a five second burst window?

“Mesmers however don’t have a five second burst.”

yeah they don’t have any abilities that have a five second channel. Is that what your saying? You have to be more clear.

“And to gain the potential of basilisk they give up a utility slot.”

Yeah, meanwhile thieves give up a elite spot.

“The only benefit MoD has is the secondary charges. The thief is still overall better off.”

How so? MoD has a shorter CD than BV unless you wait a while to use your second charge. In addition you can dodge the thieves attacks so there is a lot of counterplay unlike CS.

“You asked me about burst with no counterplay. By your logic BV is one of said bursts. So is any medi guard nonsense. Any burst class will use a stun or an immobilize, the counter is stunbreakers or cleanse.”

Except you can dodge most stuns or immobilizes. CS however doesn’t have a animation. And the counter isn’t stunbreakers or cleanses if you don’t have time before your bursted.

Daniel Handler.4816:

TheFrighteningFrenchFry.3275:

Khyber.1284:

Oddly I’ve never seen anyone complain about MoD, Well until now. Why can’t I just be a mesmer in peace!?!?

If your referring to me I ain’t complaining about MoD. I’m complaining about CS. And I said you can buff some other mesmer thing so you can be in peace.

@Silverkey

Basilisk venom has a longer CD ( granted not by much depending on how long you wait to use your second charge ), is an elite, and you can more easily predict steal from newer players if they aren’t in stealth. And with MoD you can save your second charge for later. In addition this is presuming he uses steal and not some other skill that has a animation if he isn’t in stealth. Or the thief could use a stealth ability but some classes can interrupt that.

You mean BV takes up an elite slot and neither class is centered around which elites they must take. The survival of one is reduced versus the survival of another. They get three survival based utilities we are limited to two. There is no cd on their burst, there is on ours. Your comparison is lacking.

Silverkey was the guy trying to make the comparison between BV and MoD with CS not me. I’m a bit confused as to what your saying. My whole thing tho with elite comparison is BV is a ELITE which is supposed to be more powerful than a utility. And by burst I presume you mean backstab? That does have a CD. It’s called the CD of revealed + them getting stealth.

Khyber.1284:

Oddly I’ve never seen anyone complain about MoD, Well until now. Why can’t I just be a mesmer in peace!?!?

If your referring to me I ain’t complaining about MoD. I’m complaining about CS. And I said you can buff some other mesmer thing so you can be in peace.

@Silverkey

Basilisk venom has a longer CD ( granted not by much depending on how long you wait to use your second charge ), is an elite, and you can more easily predict steal from newer players if they aren’t in stealth. And with MoD you can save your second charge for later. In addition this is presuming he uses steal and not some other skill that has a animation if he isn’t in stealth. Or the thief could use a stealth ability but some classes can interrupt that.

EDIT: All classes have a way to guarantee there burst? May I ask how? And may I ask how much counterplay is there to that burst? And you do have follow up! A second charge if nothing else. And I’m not saying your guaranteed to win with CS. I’m saying you can gain a pretty big easy advantage that really doesn’t have much counter-play. And about your whole phantasm build in PvE being easy, that has nothing to do with the build it has to do with the content. If you fight some open world mobs then of course it’s gonna be easy but if your trying to solo mossman with a phantasm build at lvl 50 suddenly it’s not so easy. So for PvE the opponent matters way more than the build.

Zenith.7301:

TheFrighteningFrenchFry.3275:

Ross Biddle.2367:

Xaylin.1860:

Embolism.8106:

Ross Biddle.2367:

Silverkey.2078:

I saw somewhere a suggestion to simply remove the trait and instead “your control effects remove an additional stability” which I think made sense.

I’d never willfully use a control effect to remove a stack of stability -_-u

I want the control effect. If I could remove the stability it’d be in some other way prior to using my CC.

That actually sounds pretty strong with Diversion. Fits Mesmer better than Revenant anyway IMO.

What’s the point of it, though? We already got Shattered Concentration. Yes, you could use the new CS without shatters but in the end it will most likely not add much to Mesmer gameplay.

While CS should be changed I still got to say: Making it on interrupt is dumb. There is absolutely no point in using it then especially since Chaotic Interruption exists.

And don’t forget it ruining Mental Anguish, since you’d never take anything other than Power Block ever again.

If you take mantra of distraction your going to take power block anyway. With or without the change to CS.

“Making it on interrupt is dumb. There is absolutely no point in using it then especially since Chaotic Interruption exists.”

I fail to see how this is reason not to make the change. So if you go lockdown it isn’t as useful. The same goes for shatter and condition damage builds.

Not really. You take MoD to get some self peeling breathing room on classes like thief with a guaranteed stun, and because power block doesn’t remotely affect most of their crap, why not take mental anguish which adds another whopping 15% bonus to mindwrack on stunned targets and as a trait is more universal?

OK, yeah I take that back you might not always want to take PB with mantra of distraction tho i think it’s pretty good to do so. PB just doesn’t do damage, it gives weakness and increased CDs to an enemy. A lot of it probably depends on the enemies class/build. For example, I’d definitely take it vs a necro. And PB does actually effect a thief a good amount. Depending on the skill lvl of the enemy thief your wanting to save it to interrupt an enemies stealth with BP and SR. In addition since most thieves go direct damage managing to interrupt a skill of there’s gives weakness which will help.

@Dondagora

“Let me reiterate why it’s dumb: It will give us two traits which do the same thing under the same conditions.”

It doesn’t. One trait stuns on interrupt, one trait applies immob + random condition + 5 might + random boon on interrupt. The only overlap is stuns and immob + daze do sorta the same thing. The only other way I could see there being more counterplay to CS is making MoD have a cast time + animation but that would nerf MoD which I think is kinda stupid.

@Altrising

I am a mesmer main actually. Which I stated in my OP if you had bothered reading it. You can just go check my post history. I’ve commented the most in the mesmer forums compared to other class forums by far.

@jackums

"

How about we wait until HoT before we gut the Mesmer again. CS is one of the only things that prevents us from being hard-countered by Thieves, even in their current state (see; blown out of proportion by a vocal minority).

Scrapper, Reaper, and Herald are all going shake the meta up a ton. If the Mesmer is still “faceroll” then, the trait can be looked at, though Continuum Shift is going to be the new issue at that point and I imagine a lot of people will miss fighting the “old” Mesmer."

Yeah, seeing as HoT is so close there will probably be a lot of balancing going on around then. And I don’t think Continuum Shift is going to be a problem at all. It takes skill to know when to use and it has a lot of counterplay like destroying the rift. It’s actually my new favorite skill in the game ( sorry portal ).

@Vieux P

“PU was not anoth of a nerf.. you must Nerf CS as well. Then the rest… :S lol”

My idea behind my change to CS isn’t because I want CS destroyed, it’s because I want more counterplay and/or make it harder to use. If mesmer/chronomancer is suddenly underwhelming because of this change then they can buff some other mesmer trait.

@Altrising

“Go troll someone else son.”

Alphathe White isn’t the troll here. It’s in fact you. Why? You bothered to insult me without even having read the OP at all. You simply saw the title of the thread, saw the word nerf, and got mad because you like playing mesmer probs. I even said you can buff some other mesmer trait if mesmer/chronomancer is underwhelming all of a sudden because of the change to CS.

@Daniel

“The issue with this thread is that is resides on the belief that guaranteeing the greatsword burst is OP. A burst which already cannot kill heavies and can easily be negated through dodge when one uses dazes over stun.”

I think guaranteeing the GS burst is too strong when it takes very little skill from the mesmer play and there’s very little counterplay to it. Sure you can’t one shot heavies and whatnot. However, you have two charges from MoD. And you don’t have to one shot someone to still get in a pretty big burst. Which is why i think CS should get changed to on interrupt with a daze in addition to potentially a 10 second ICD. A potential buff to some other mesmer trait/skill/MoD could be due then.

@Chaos

“albiet, Frenchfry, you’re madly spammy on your GS auto, you cancel it before all three hits even connect. =P”

Shhhhhh. I haven’t been playing much these past two/three months! Both this and my jumping skills have plummeted ( horribly ). Must….practice……before….HoT.

“Confounding is fine. If you needa nerf something, nerf Mantra of Distraction. Confounding is only “OP” when combined with it, but in every other instance its fine… That doesn’t qualify a nerf.”

MoD is completely fine without CS. And CS is completely fine without MoD. It’s only when you take both CS and MoD. So you could either nerf MoD and add a cast time with animation and totally butcher MoD or you could nerf CS and have it still be useful. I went with the second option.

“All of this sass and back-sass is highly unnecessary.”

But funny to an extent.

@Silverkey

“I think we can agree that CS even with MoD is not that OP anymore.”

I think guaranteeing the GS burst is too strong when it takes very little skill from the mesmer play and there’s very little counterplay to it.

“I would have liked to see it nerfed some time ago, but a-net nerfed everything else instead (the mantra recharge “fix”, harmonious mantra, mirror blade, PU) so now mesmer is fine and not OP in any ways.”

Yeah that harmonious mantra nerf. Bleh. Makes no sense. But see the above.

@chaos again

“There’s enough tears about Mesmers already without Mesmer-mains needing to complain. How about we just.. enjoy what we have right now? Its bad enough Chronomancer is going to see nerfs without abusing core Mes.”

I even said you can buff some other mesmer thing! My idea is not to butcher mesmer!

Ross Biddle.2367:

Xaylin.1860:

Embolism.8106:

Ross Biddle.2367:

Silverkey.2078:

I saw somewhere a suggestion to simply remove the trait and instead “your control effects remove an additional stability” which I think made sense.

I’d never willfully use a control effect to remove a stack of stability -_-u

I want the control effect. If I could remove the stability it’d be in some other way prior to using my CC.

That actually sounds pretty strong with Diversion. Fits Mesmer better than Revenant anyway IMO.

What’s the point of it, though? We already got Shattered Concentration. Yes, you could use the new CS without shatters but in the end it will most likely not add much to Mesmer gameplay.

While CS should be changed I still got to say: Making it on interrupt is dumb. There is absolutely no point in using it then especially since Chaotic Interruption exists.

And don’t forget it ruining Mental Anguish, since you’d never take anything other than Power Block ever again.

If you take mantra of distraction your going to take power block anyway. With or without the change to CS.

“Making it on interrupt is dumb. There is absolutely no point in using it then especially since Chaotic Interruption exists.”

I fail to see how this is reason not to make the change. So if you go lockdown it isn’t as useful. The same goes for shatter and condition damage builds.

Mogar.9216:

TheFrighteningFrenchFry.3275:

Mogar.9216:

TheFrighteningFrenchFry.3275:

Mogar.9216:

it’s face roll vs zerker players with low skill level. It’s not really oped at all. I actually started to save my dazes for defense lately rather than using it to land shatter. A decent player knows a shatter is inc once they get mantra stuned and will pop a breaker and dodge so the stun really becomes a tell for your opponents.

You can time the stun with your burst so that they can’t stunbreak it in time 99.999999% of the time unless you have a teleport like blink.

That WAS true before they nerfed mirror blade. You can cast mirrior blade and then stun blink and shatter. But ever since they nerfed mirror blade damage by nearly a 1/3 it’s no longer possiable to shatter burst someone 100-0 anymore. The shatter damage is never instant. You have to cast MB, hit stun, blink and shatter. while blink and shatter are both insta you still need to wait for blink to happen before hit shatter which is enough time to stun break and dodge.

Yeah, it depends on what class your fighting and what build depending on the one shot. But it’s still a lot of damage that has very little counterplay. And I’m a bit confused by what your saying. While blink and shatter are both insta you still wait for blink to happen? When it’s instant? Think you meant to say mirror blade. Which is true butttt you can time it so they don’t have time to stun break. Simply start casting GS 2, before they have time to react and dodge pop CS and by that time it’s normerly too late.

You want to shatter while you are on top of the player because you want to make sure you shatter yourself for more damage. While blink casting is instant the blink itself is not really instant. The sequence goes like this: You see target, Cast gs2, While gs2 is in air daze stun the target, blink there and shatter + gs 3 . If you use a macro you can maybe pull it off as a insta but in real life that is awful a lot of keys to press where 2 of them are ground targeted. So in real life there is usually time to react when you are stuned. Not a large window but enough never the less, I do it on my mesmer all the time both landing and try to avoid bursts .

Landing two AoEs isn’t really that hard, especially because you don’t even necessarily need greatsword 3. And you don’t always need to blink in. As long as you are in melee range or somewhat close to melee range your good. Even if not you can still get make the guy use a stunbreak and catch him 5-10 seconds later with the second charge.

Mikkel.8427:

TheFrighteningFrenchFry.3275:

Mikkel.8427:

You know… I’d be able to tolerate Scepter’s kitten AA if they would just make the following QoL change for mesmer:

Clones no longer overwrite phantasms

I hate feeling locked out of using a skill (scepter AA, scepter block, phase retreat, mirror blade, OH sword block) because I dont want to overwrite one of my phantasms in PvE.

OH sword block summons a phantasm actually. It’s pretty decent. It’s the only phantasm affected by your damage modifiers.

OH sword 4 (the block) creates a Clone. Sword 5 creates the Phantasm.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Illusionary_Riposte

My brain just had a fart. For some reason I was thinking it summoned a phantasm even so I remember back in the days using s/s in PvP because I liked the fact that it had two clone sword summons ( this is way back in the day when I thought sword clones were so cool in combination with my weapon ).