Guild Wars 2

Talindra.4958:

I mean its great making high lvl difficulty content but there are a group of people that is disadvantage .. and good content should cater for most if not all. so, my rating to this content is 5/10 due to the fact that I am unable to enjoy it as great as you do. people that has the same issue will understand the level of frustration. it is hard to explain if you haven’t experienced a permenant large ping issue. I just like to bring it up because I think it may help the future development team to consider this in the future content prior to developing / executing the game mechanics.. it is hard to change the current I understand that but for future. we are part of the players that keep this game going

Also if anyone in the same shoe, knows a way to negate this problem.. by all means.. share it. bcos I haven’t given up yet trying everyday on raids

“I mean its great making high lvl difficulty content but there are a group of people that is disadvantage .. and good content should cater for most if not all. "

The game should and hopefully will never balance around people with high ping. They aren’t going to just make raids easier just because there are people who play the game in places arenanet hasn’t set up a server. This is supposed to be challenging group content, not challenging group content only for people with high ping. I understand, it sucks, but there isn’t a way around it that doesn’t screw over more people.

No. Assassin’s/zerk is still meta, if you need toughness gear grab a piece or two of knights. You get boon duration from other sources that don’t cost as much personal DPS ( food, sigils if needed, herald etc ). And chrono runes are better than leadership with SoI which is really good.

biofrog.1568:

Ping spikes are not what you should be looking at. They happen, that’s the nature of the internet. Your every-day playing in good conditions should be the normal situation, so watch your ping around those times.

I know my personal good-condition ping is around 305 milliseconds to the WEST COAST of Australia (honestly, ‘OCX’ does not just mean east coast Australia.. you have NZ, PNG, even Singapore, Thailand, etc etc..). This is high enough to make the current raid content EXTREMELY difficult, not just the very-hard difficulty intended.

However.. I do not want the content to change, only the mechanics. By example, I would implement something like “the raising of Gorseval’s arm” not to give 400ms before he performs his attack but 1000ms instead. How does this change anything? It doesn’t. It might give you 600ms more time to DPS safely, in which case throw in a small amount of damage taken before hand. All that’s needed is SOME indicator with REASONABLE time before each skill impacts. You still need to time your dodge correctly which is simply practice based on your own skill, recognition of the visual indicator and personal latency.

If you have done the Crucible of Eternity dungeon, you know exactly what I am talking about.. The 3 – 2 – 1 – dodge. Because of my latency, the time I DODGE is not the same time YOU dodge, simple as that. My practice has taught me to perform the dodge before you do, thus myself taking into account my latency.

Of course this negates an even better solution. I wonder if it were possible for ANet to put RAID ONLY servers/shards in Australia. It certainly would not be difficult to get 10 players ONLY from Australia into a raid squad.

See the thing is when you give more time on say gorsevals attack that gives players more time to react making it again less difficult.

Xyonon.3987:

Lumpy.8760:

Mak.2657:

Lumpy.8760:

stop using runes of force/accuracy they don’t affect illusions

Any suggestions to replace force for raid environment.

fire and air

worst advice ever … air is better than accuracy when you have less than 9000 dps, and fire is even worse. Mesmer damage in raids does not come from phantasms, it comes from your attacks, your wells, your shatter and everything else is passive damage from alacrity and quickness.

Force and accuracy are the best sigils on ALL dps professions. Only healers go for different sigils.

---

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vhAQNAs+dncfC9fitfCmfCUrhFVjiMAKgirOZn2qFtLSjsD-TBCBABjq+zZKBxS5BAnEg80LUmSs+3fIgHAApACcMA-e

This is you endgoal you want to aim for for raids. If you got questions, go ahead, I’ll check this thread to answer you

greez
- Madame Le Blanc

A couple of things with that build is that rune of the chronomancer>Rune of leadership And that SoI is great for spreading tons of quickness so I’d take that over well of calamity. In addition, focus is alright for the pull, but on the first boss this isn’t always needed so sword could be taken there if your not having trouble with seekers. That, and shield is alright for the quickness, but pistol is better for personal damage so it just depends. Shield can be decent on say the 3rd boss because people are more closely stacked than say the 2nd boss where people are normally more spread out. I’d say it’s largely preference for the second boss at least.

Xyonon.3987:

Air has been stealth nerfed and the wiki is wrong atm. With 3000 power it deals about 1000 damage every (in practice) 4 sec wich is like 250 dps increase, wich is laughtable.

@TheFrighteningFrenchFry.3275

I then calculated the accuracy sigils dps (in the beginning for other professions) and since Chronomancer itself average dps isn’t as low as it used to be, mainly because of calamity and F1 and the constant 9% damage modifier (illusions won’t die anymore), I’d say the sigils are about even, just that accuracy helps with reflection whereas air doesn’t help you. Same goes for aoe damage, since accuracy is for every attack and air only one target. For every other profession tough, air is a no go at the current state.

DNT made a terrible mistake by recommending air, but since they did it multiple times already I bet my 50 cent that they bought tons of air sigils and now they sell them. I mean comon, I can’t be the only one who noticed they increased in price from 3 to 7 gold … Accuracy probably was just too commonly used to be manipulated.

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savacli.8172:

However, Xyonon’s build wouldn’t work for me in my regular Raid group. Namely, I would be well over 100% in critical strike chance if I changed nothing. In which case I might opt for something like Air Sigil. Pricing is also something that may be a make-break deal for some players.

67.81% crit chance in my build.

• 20% from fury
• 170 prec from banner are 8.09%
  Equals 96% crit chance. Now you either use oil to get to 100% or you swap the accessoires to zerk and hope for spotter to affect you. How would you get over 100% in any composition? o.O

“mainly because of calamity and F1 and the constant 9% damage modifier”

Well of calamity isn’t taken most of the time.

“DNT made a terrible mistake by recommending air, but since they did it multiple times already I bet my 50 cent that they bought tons of air sigils and now they sell them. I mean comon, I can’t be the only one who noticed they increased in price from 3 to 7 gold … Accuracy probably was just too commonly used to be manipulated.”

Conspiracy theory confirmed lol.

Also, just another thing to note is air is better on revenant too because of fury being 100% more effective.

Obtena.7952:

MadRabbit.3179:

RoRo.8270:

Idk why you think every piece of content anet creates should be accessible to you. I kid you not you can still pop into open world and participate in zerg trains

Like seriously? Are you being serious right now? This is the question you are legitimately asking me?

Because the money I spent on the expansion and the money I have spent in the gem store over the years has gone to pay to create that content.

Like, holy dancing kittens, batman. Have you beaten any of the raid content? If so, I change my stance. Raids are too easy. Anyone can do it.

Why should all content Anet creates be something anyone can complete successfully?

This.

It would be better to keep up 3 phantasms all the time but still shatter. In this way you still get perma alacrity for yourself ( presuming your going to use well of recall anyhow ), you get extra phantasm attacks, and you still get the extra damage from f1.

Xyonon.3987:

Lumpy.8760:

Mak.2657:

Lumpy.8760:

stop using runes of force/accuracy they don’t affect illusions

Any suggestions to replace force for raid environment.

fire and air

worst advice ever … air is better than accuracy when you have less than 9000 dps, and fire is even worse. Mesmer damage in raids does not come from phantasms, it comes from your attacks, your wells, your shatter and everything else is passive damage from alacrity and quickness.

Force and accuracy are the best sigils on ALL dps professions. Only healers go for different sigils.

---

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vhAQNAs+dncfC9fitfCmfCUrhFVjiMAKgirOZn2qFtLSjsD-TBCBABjq+zZKBxS5BAnEg80LUmSs+3fIgHAApACcMA-e

This is you endgoal you want to aim for for raids. If you got questions, go ahead, I’ll check this thread to answer you

greez
- Madame Le Blanc

Presuming this is the case ( I have no clue if it is ), wouldn’t air and force be better on chronomancer because their personal damage ( non phantasm I mean ) is less than 9k? Either way, last I remember Nike was suggesting to run air force so IDK.

Firebird Gomer.9563:

Mega Skeleton.8259:

I went in with our Oceanic raid group last night/morning and it started off well, but connection and lag issues were constantly plaguing them, I felt so bad for them

But there are no Oceanic servers, they’re just SOL. What are those people supposed to do, Pope? Anet doesn’t support their region.

Thank’s Mega. Makes me feel better.

Some people just don’t get how frustrating it is. I really want to do it but it makes me feel sick cause I don’t want to hold others back or cause a wipe.

I don’t believe in having extra servers around the world. I would just like Anet/NCSoft work on a system that gives lee-way. Or make some small modifications to the current system to make somethings client side instead of server side.

“I would just like Anet/NCSoft work on a system that gives lee-way.”

This is supposed to be challenging group content.

Hume.2876:

While two modes would be nice, Anet has already said with dungeons they don’t like that idea, I really don’t think they will do that for raids.

World bosses and Meta-Events are EZ mode raids. The old scarlet event where you had 5 guys go in each lane – that was basically a raid test. So two modes would be repetitive.

The new raids are the equivalent of the ‘pro league’ in PvP – its to give the good PvE’s something to do. Think of it like a power rack in your gym. Not everyone is going use it – but its nice to have – and helps your gym attract the crossfit crowd.

I myself like how raids are difficulty wise. It’s what I’ve always wanted in gw2, but I think a easy mode with little to no rewards wouldn’t a bad idea either considering how the content is already there. It doesn’t really affect me either way, but I’m not against it, I don’t know if I’m really for it either.

What Nike said. Personal damage doesn’t really matter much, what the class brings for team support matters much much more.

Firebird Gomer.9563:

TheFrighteningFrenchFry.3275:

Firebird Gomer.9563:

TheFrighteningFrenchFry.3275:

So the problem would seem to be you and not Anet? It’s fine if you want to play on EU with your friends, but that doesn’t come without a cost.

Actually Mr Fry. It is Anet’s problem. Making content that excludes people via lag on what they themselves (Anet) term an “international game” is unacceptable and not the players fault as lag is out of the control of players.

I imagine you have never had to play on any ping higher than 100 except when there were problems with GW’s 2 a year or so back.

You should really try it sometime and actually understand the pain players go through when they cost people completing a Raid because of lag.

I live in Australia I play on NA and I have a ping in excess of 300. And raids are unavailalbe to me because of lag.

As for the whole it is anets problem, he seemed to be saying at first that it was because he decided to play on EU which he has since said is not the case. But what do you really expect anet to do? Nerf raids just because of people with ping? I’m not saying it doesn’t suck to have high ping, but Anet won’t balance CGC around people with high ping.

It’s simple as others have said in posts Anet won’t work on or make things people don’t do in game.

Here’s the problem, just because you have high ping doesn’t mean everyone else does. I understand it sucks to not be able to do a raid just because of ping, but there isn’t really a solution, but that doesn’t mean everyone else is having the same problem.

Talindra.4958:

:p
Hehe… im sooooo glad to know someone understand what i say……….. my poor friends tht has to suffer to play with us – we are the “bad players” due to lag. Theys said we dont mind to come and help! They done all 3 bosses after reset on monday.. and spend thr rest of week everyday trying out with us?! But only wipe after wipe with us. I am starting to feel this is too much pressure we put to the team. is there really nothing can be done?

“is there really nothing can be done?”

Well, you could move to a better spot : P Otherwise no, there isn’t really much that can be done.

Firebird Gomer.9563:

TheFrighteningFrenchFry.3275:

Firebird Gomer.9563:

TheFrighteningFrenchFry.3275:

I think this thread toughed the topic if your having ping issues:

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/dungeons/Raids-Hurt-us-Oceanic-in-EU/first#post5838838

I know but the title doesn’t do it for me. Mine points it out for everyone.

lol the the title doesn’t do it for you. Anyhow, I think all that needs to be said has already been said in the other thread. I’ll quote the one comment ( not from me ): Honestly, challenging raid mechanics usually involve some sort of precise timing in order to execute them well. These raids were definitely not designed to be played on high ping. Which means there’s not really a good solution to your problem. It is beyond unlikely we’ll see any changes to the raid at least for the next few months, and especially not to compensate for people playing on high ping. I guess start praying for an Oceanic server?

Anet have been asked for a Oceanic server. They pretty much said no. In the usual PR way of not saying no if you get what I mean.

So then what was the point of the thread? If you know Anet won’t do a Oceanic server, the only other option I see available is to balance CGC around people with high ping which is a little ridiculous. It would seem there isn’t really a solution to the problem that’s very likely or that makes much sense.

Firebird Gomer.9563:

TheFrighteningFrenchFry.3275:

So the problem would seem to be you and not Anet? It’s fine if you want to play on EU with your friends, but that doesn’t come without a cost.

Actually Mr Fry. It is Anet’s problem. Making content that excludes people via lag on what they themselves (Anet) term an “international game” is unacceptable and not the players fault as lag is out of the control of players.

I imagine you have never had to play on any ping higher than 100 except when there were problems with GW’s 2 a year or so back.

You should really try it sometime and actually understand the pain players go through when they cost people completing a Raid because of lag.

I live in Australia I play on NA and I have a ping in excess of 300. And raids are unavailalbe to me because of lag.

As for the whole it is anets problem, he seemed to be saying at first that it was because he decided to play on EU which he has since said is not the case. But what do you really expect anet to do? Nerf raids just because of people with ping? I’m not saying it doesn’t suck to have high ping, but Anet won’t balance CGC around people with high ping.

Firebird Gomer.9563:

TheFrighteningFrenchFry.3275:

I think this thread toughed the topic if your having ping issues:

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/dungeons/Raids-Hurt-us-Oceanic-in-EU/first#post5838838

I know but the title doesn’t do it for me. Mine points it out for everyone.

lol the the title doesn’t do it for you. Anyhow, I think all that needs to be said has already been said in the other thread. I’ll quote the one comment ( not from me ): Honestly, challenging raid mechanics usually involve some sort of precise timing in order to execute them well. These raids were definitely not designed to be played on high ping. Which means there’s not really a good solution to your problem. It is beyond unlikely we’ll see any changes to the raid at least for the next few months, and especially not to compensate for people playing on high ping. I guess start praying for an Oceanic server?

I think this thread toughed the topic if your having ping issues:

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/dungeons/Raids-Hurt-us-Oceanic-in-EU/first#post5838838

softblackcarbon.1537:

Honestly, challenging raid mechanics usually involve some sort of precise timing in order to execute them well. These raids were definitely not designed to be played on high ping. Which means there’s not really a good solution to your problem. It is beyond unlikely we’ll see any changes to the raid at least for the next few months, and especially not to compensate for people playing on high ping. I guess start praying for an Oceanic server?

Talindra.4958:

if we play in NA there is a lag too at 200 ave ping.

Then it’s probably either your internet or your location. Either way, raids are supposed to be hard and I don’t think they will make them easier just for people with high ping.

So the problem would seem to be you and not Anet? It’s fine if you want to play on EU with your friends, but that doesn’t come without a cost.

saye.9304:

TheFrighteningFrenchFry.3275:

saye.9304:

as matter of fact many of the games which released as raiding game had to back off from it and added easy mode to their raiding yet alone gw2 which was advertised as non traditional game and first expansion brought traditional raiding similar to wow.
wild star had to remove/change almost all of their hard core stuff and go f2p just to survive and that game released as raiding game.
rift now has easy mode raiding while the signature feature of the game was hard core raiding but trion backed off from it and rift added easy mode.
wow added easy LFR long time ago.
these are games i played and i saw they have become much more casual friendly.
what made anet think this is good idea??

Think of gw2 raids as the easy mode raids. Gw2 raids are significantly easier than WoW raids. So instead of there not being an easy mode in gw2, think of it as there not being a hard mode. As for the whole wildstar having to go F2P cause it focused on raids, gw2 is NOT just focusing on raids. In addition, just because wildstar went F2P does NOT mean it was because the game was focused on raids.

so gw2 raiding is harder than wow LFR i mean do you know if you die in easy wow raiding you will receive a buff that makes you stronger so you are telling me gw2 raiding is even easier?? you noticed i said wow LFR not wow mythic version.
wild star 40 man raid was one of the biggest mistake carbine made along with Attunement process, these were 2 major reasons along with some minor problem..WS removed or changed all that so yes WS failure was highly because of raiding.
gw2 raids are not easy for most casual players but difficulty is subjective, for raider gw2 raids might be easy for casual player who bought non traditional non raiding game more than 3 years ago it is difficult hence you see actually number of threads on the forum against raiding.
all those games added an actual easy mode where you can easily pug it i do not think gw2 raids are that easy to pug or they reduced the difficulty significantly all together.
anyways like i said these games were targeting raiders from lunch day and yet again they had to go much more casual friendly while gw2 lunched as casual game changed direction toward traditional raiding.
we have to wait for ncsoft financial report specially in 2016 to see whether the raiding was good idea or not.

When I was saying gw2 raids are easier than WoW I was referring to the harder one, thus making gw2 raids easier in comparison, and thus a easier level. Easier lvl raids with significant drop in rewards wouldn’t be bad, but seeing as Anet already said no to different dungeon lvls I really don’t see them doing it. And like I said I don’t think it’s that big of a deal seeing as raids are pretty easy compared to some stuff provided by other games.

Also, I was just putting out the whole wildstar thing just in case, I’ve had a couple people say some funny stuff so I just wanted to shoot it down in case you jumped on that bandwagon seeing as you brought up wildstar. Anyhow, as to what you said about it, I’ll emphasis what I said: " just because wildstar went F2P does NOT mean it was because the game was focused on raids."

Your saying WS failed because of some choices made to raids, I was just saying WS didn’t fail because they were focused on raiding. Anyhow, all of this is irrelevant because of what I said before that, gw2 isn’t focusing all it’s resources on it, just wanted to get that out of the way cause I’ve had two similar cases in game that wanted easy mode raids ( which I agree would be nice ) but then derailed into WS failed because it focused so much on raids and so easy mode should be made available in gw2.

YaYa.5879:

Thaddeus.4891:

1) Dungeon. They nerfed them for a reason. Either they don’t put any gold reward for raid and don’t buff gold reward from fractal, they add gold sink or they nerfed the gold reward from dungeon. They had no other option if they want to keep inflation in check and as a player you don’t want inflation to go crazy, that would be the worst possible outcome for us. That said, they could gave reward back in other form like material, token, rares, etc. In the end, people are kitten for now and occupied by the expansion. I tried dungeon again the other day and with a decent party you go WAY faster through them than we used to. The reward is still very good. People will calm down, finish their expansion and then people will want to get back into dungeon for the reward.

2) Raid are not for you that’s ok. Other people love it. I had so much fun wiping and learning the encounter.

3) The patch for fractal is either gonna be tomorrow or on december 15th. I never though that it could be on december 1st.

Conclusions : Dungeon are still there and they still have good reward. Anet didn’t do a great job on how they implemented the nerf. Fractal is a mess and they kittened it up for sure. But they acknowledged their mistake so let’s wait 1-2 weeks to see the patch and judge then. Raid are perfect for the target audience they are meant for. Some polishing for squad and LFG and the rest is only time as people get better at it. Leave it 1-2 months and we’ll see then what’s the situation with raids.

Average joe don’t grind for 7 different character dude. Average joe will probably have 1-2 character with near map completion and only need 1-2 hero challenge as they explore the new maps to unlock their elite.

2/ Lol raids aren’t for me? It’s one of the new content of this 45€ expension and it’s not for me? It’s not smart to put something that 100% of player paid for, but only 5-10% can succeed in…
The casual players must feel left out
.

“but only 5-10% can succeed in…”

Woah, hold your horses right there.

1. Without some type of harderish content, that 5-10% of the people who want harder content would leave the game ( and a lot of people already have ). So they came out with raids to keep 5-10% of the player base ( presuming you somehow had statistics on how many people completed it lol ) in the game for just part of a expansion and bring more people into the game who like that content.

2. Most people can complete raids, it’s just they refuse to get better.

But but but, one part of ton of different things you have to do in the expansion doesn’t suit me!!!!!!!!!!!!

Shaogin.2679:

Not sure what the issue is here. It’s difficult content with nice rewards for the people that wanted that sort of thing. On NA server, and I can always easily throw up a commander tag, squad invite all the people on lfg wanting to raid, and pug the raid. We all hop on teamspeak and even if we fail we have a great time. If this content is too hard for you to do even that, then you shouldn’t be doing it. Not ALL content in the game should be catered to ALL levels of players. You don’t NEED legendary armor or any other raid rewards. If it is something you WANT, then you’re just going to have to learn and get better.

But but but, then I can’t get my legendary armor!! I NEED it, and I can’t be bothered to get better, so plz nerf it NOW. Legendary armor is a new tier anet went back on there word this is a casual MMO that means there can’t EVER be anything even remotely difficult!! I’m just sick and tired of Anet spending all there resources on raids now that’s all they ever update. I mean just look at what happened to wildstar. Just another WoW clone : (

/s

Blood Red Arachnid.2493:

I’m not planning to participate in any raids anytime soon. For a multitude of reasons, which I will now list in no specific order:

#1: I am the most uncoordinated individual I have ever met. It takes me hours to do jumping puzzles, let alone when I have 9 angry players waiting for me to get it right. Most of my play in this game consists of pre-planning and theorycrafting, and very little consists of clutch plays and precise movements. My aptitude for anything “skill” related is incredibly low, so much so that my actual skill caps out a week within playing the game. I can’t “get gud” basically.

#2: I don’t have anyone to do it with. Nobody in my area plays GW2, and I’m a lone wolf by trade. Any PUG groups I manage to get in on will be filled full of antisocial neckbeards desperate to prove something who will rage when yet another thing in their life doesn’t go exactly right. Without a group that will understand that I’ll ruin half the attempts because my fingers up and decided to not respond to my brain, running a raid is just going to be a frustrating experience that benefits nobody.

#3: I don’t have time to do it. I keep odd hours IRL, and now that I’m going to college a surprisingly large amount of time is dedicated to that fact. The first week of raids was an exam week, so now that everybody wants “experienced”, I’ll never get in to a group.

#4:It goes against what I’ve been striving for in this game, which is gear equality and class equality. The whole point of making the game harder in specific ways was to make it so more gearsets other than full glass cannon were desirable. But, by putting an enrage timer into mix, the only gearsets that get encouraged are berserker, berserker with a piece or two of knight gear to draw aggro , and a healing set. Whereas Anet originally saw the superiority of GC gear as a problem, now they see it as a good thing. And as with classes, instead of making content that encourages a diverse set of play, we have content that is optimized around having particular groups to maximize buffs and performance, leaving classes who don’t fit that mold (I.E. thief) to be left in the dust.

#5: The ascended requirements. Back when Anet said Ascended wouldn’t be required for anything, I took their word for it, and then continued to not make ascended gear, instead spending my cash on other things like alternate armor sets and outfits. Now suddenly I’m supposed to have full ascended gear, and to get the weapons alone for my characters it is going to cost several thousand gold, let alone how long it’ll take to get the laurels for the ascended trinkets, rings, and amulets. I am simply not rich enough to take my characters into the raids.

So in short, I can never have the “skill”, I don’t have the time, the people, or the money, and I have ethical problems with how raids are made. To be frank, if the raiding community is anything like the dungeon community of old, then they’re an insufferable bunch who will make the whole thing unwelcoming to everybody but themselves; exactly how they like it.

Just one thing to note. You don’t need full ascended. There groups that have done the bosses with +3 minutes left on the timer. As for weapons costing alone thousands of gold, you don’t need all 9 classes having ascended weapons. Just pick a class or two and get ascended weapons for them. And with them being account bound, if you really need you can just swap them to another character.

TheHeretic.3529:

The timer is what makes it a bad experience. You have to find the perfect blend of builds to be able to take inevitable damage, but be able to dish out the damage right back at it, but do it in less than 10 minutes.

The mechanics aren’t hard. The timer is.

The timer makes the raid harder because it makes your mistakes matter more. If there was no timer and someone went dead, it’s just a simple matter of rezzing. With the timer, it makes that mistake of the player/players a much bigger deal. It could very well mean that try is a fail, instead of simply just rezzing the guy.

And it doesn’t have to be a “perfect blend of builds”, there have been different comps killing all 3 bosses. It just means you can’t run a totally random comp and still beat it. If you have a problem with this, raids are not the thing for you. That does NOT mean raids are terrible for everyone, it just means it’s harder than you would like.

saye.9304:

as matter of fact many of the games which released as raiding game had to back off from it and added easy mode to their raiding yet alone gw2 which was advertised as non traditional game and first expansion brought traditional raiding similar to wow.
wild star had to remove/change almost all of their hard core stuff and go f2p just to survive and that game released as raiding game.
rift now has easy mode raiding while the signature feature of the game was hard core raiding but trion backed off from it and rift added easy mode.
wow added easy LFR long time ago.
these are games i played and i saw they have become much more casual friendly.
what made anet think this is good idea??

Think of gw2 raids as the easy mode raids. Gw2 raids are significantly easier than WoW raids. So instead of there not being an easy mode in gw2, think of it as there not being a hard mode. As for the whole wildstar having to go F2P cause it focused on raids, gw2 is NOT just focusing on raids. In addition, just because wildstar went F2P does NOT mean it was because the game was focused on raids.

Alright, thanks.

JoshuaRAWR.4653:

Yes, you just need to make sure you have more toughness than your healer (if he has any), no-body else in the raid should have any toughness gear at all.

So even if you just have an extra 5 toughness than everyone else you can still hold 100% reliable agro? Just wanting to make sure.

How much toughness should a tank aim for for the first and potentially the second boss? Is two ascended rings with primary toughness and 70 toughness 20% boon duration enough to hold agro as chrono tank?

florence.1674:

Why? Raids are supposed to be about skill and all that?

What’s gear for to do with it? Or is it because raiders don’t just want raids to be about skill, but also something with a high bar entry point to deny most at the chance to raid?

1. Devalues ascended rewards to the extreme ( AKA, fractal and raid rewards )
2. Celestrial stats is a really really really bad idea, the people who want to hold agro no longer can, the people who want to heal now have tons of other useless stats, the people that want to do direct damage have a ton of useless stats, and the same goes for condi players.

Fortunately, I don’t see anet doing anything of the sort at all. Of course it can be annoying to go get full ascended, but it’s the best option out there imo. Getting full ascended trinkets and a weapon isn’t that hard even.

florence.1674:

If we want to take gear out of the equation, it’s simple.

Make all gear in raid instances the same as spvp. Nobody has gear. All has 1 amulet giving everyone 1 point in all stats. Now it’s a skill game.

uhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh………….no. Just no. Not even just the highlighted part, all of it.

What content do you play the most?

Bitoku Kishi.8346:

Okay, after doing the Raid a bunch, I really like the concept in general, so I want to thank the Raid team for it. But I do see one big problem with it, and that’s the general “aggro timer” on the bosses. I think the timer is intended as a way of making it difficult, but I don’t think it’s really working to do that. I see it doing the following instead…

1. It potentially restricts the viable party composition builds, requiring you to build the party and characters in the party in at least somewhat restrictive ways. This sort of goes against ArenaNet’s usual enouragement of playing in varied ways. But it’s really only the timer restricting this, not the raid bosses themselves.

2. It eliminates recovery options almost completely. Suppose the team makes a mistake against the first phase of Vale Guardian and misses a green circle, wiping out half the team. Let’s suppose you also manage to recover and revive everyone before they’re defeated. That’s an impressive feat… but by this time you could have used too much time for it to be possible to beat the boss, thus making it pointless to do anything except purposefully wiping and starting over. This is just annoying, not to mention counter-intuitive.

3. It seems to push knowledge rather than skill. If you know the boss patterns, they aren’t really exceptionally difficult. I typically tank it, but I’ve tried the other roles too, and even as the tank I’m not finding this really more complex than a lot of WoW dungeon bosses were… except that the timer is there to artificially put pressure on everyone to know everything about the fight and not make any mistakes. I think that the timer isn’t really making it harder overall though, just less fun than it could be if you didn’t have to be so concerned with it annoyingly looming in the background. It kind of reminds me of the Dragon Stand timer, to be honest, which isn’t any less annoying… but that’s another topic.

Overall I’ve just been coming more and more to the conclusion that the timer doesn’t really serve any good purpose for the Raid bosses. It would probably be a bit better if it was split into individual timers for each phase, perhaps. But having an overall timer like it is now is just annoying and makes it less fun than I think it would be without it.

“1. It potentially restricts the viable party composition builds”

If raids are going to be really as hard as Anet wants them to be, this would be the case either way. If you can just run some random comp and beat it it’s not as hard as Anet said they wanted it. Working as intended.

“2. It eliminates recovery options almost completely.”

Recovery options depend on how much you mess up. For example, if one player just goes downed not dead, you can rez the person. If 2+ people wype then yes it’s going to be a wype. It’s a raid, it’s supposed to be hard, if you mess up to the point that someone dies it’s supposed to be game over. Working as intended.

“3. It seems to push knowledge rather than skill.”

The timer pushes both knowledge and skill because if you make a mistake and die, it’s probably over. Working as intended.

I’d advise reading the below post too because it’s really well written.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/dungeons/Let-s-talk-about-timers-and-why-I-like-them/first#post5823432

^^ this

/15charrsareugly

Kagamiku.9731:

And the moment you realize I didn’t mean they’re faceroll because of stacking, and that the fact you can stack to defeat a dungeon is proof that they’re faceroll…You will realize how pointless this debate it.

" and that the fact you can stack to defeat a dungeon is proof that they’re faceroll"

Yeah I think we agree on that, but I still don’t think we agree on the fact that stacking on a boss doesn’t make it easier or faster for pugs most of the time. Either way I don’t think there’s much point in discussing about how it does or does not make a dungeon faster or easier I think we clearly disagree on it and I don’t want to spend another 20 comments on it xD.

Kagamiku.9731:

The bad pugs benefit from the good pugs by staying in range of the good pugs. I’ve done over a thousand pug runs. One warrior with phalanx strength is all that’s needed to make a huge difference. I know how dungeons with pugs work.

And no, if they’re in melee range they’re going to melee. It’s not like they’re only carrying a ranged weapon. Ranging is just safer, but once they realize their HP isn’t really dropping much while stacked, they’ll stay in it meleeing with the rest of us.

y’know what, I don’t even care. This seems like a pointless debate and just arguement for the sake or arguement.

“And no, if they’re in melee range they’re going to melee. It’s not like they’re only carrying a ranged weapon. Ranging is just safer, but once they realize their HP isn’t really dropping much while stacked, they’ll stay in it meleeing with the rest of us.”

Your presuming a bad pug would be smart enough to realize that a melee weapon is most of the time better than a ranged weapon. If a pug realized that, he/she would be meleeing either way.

“The bad pugs benefit from the good pugs by staying in range of the good pugs.”

Again, your presuming a bad pug stays at max range unless stacking. This isn’t always the case. In addition, why would a smart player that runs PS warrior be going into a group that max ranges?

Even if you were right about the above which I hope I showed why your not, it wouldn’t mean that melee stacking is easier than ranging.

Kagamiku.9731:

Ranging is slower. I’m not even sure what you’re trying to argue anymore. You shouldn’t be able to stack on a boss and DPS him down in less than a minute. That’s a testament to how faceroll dungeons are.

/end

Your either saying stacking makes a dungeon easier or faster. I’m saying, this is hardly the case. Your first reason as to why it was faster was because then everyone get’s the party buffs because they wouldn’t range. If a pug is bad enough to range if they weren’t stacking you can bet they won’t be using party buffs, and if they are smart enough to use buffs then you can bet they would also be smart enough to stay within radius of the buffs. The second reason you had as to why it was faster and easier was because you can revive them faster which is true, but if you were all ranging if you didn’t stack then you would have a lot less pressure meaning you might not even have gone down. So stacking is hardly easier or faster even in really bad groups. That’s all I was trying to point out. That’s not to say dungeons aren’t faceroll, because they are, it’s just they aren’t faceroll because of stacking. One more thing I would like to address is this: “Ranging is slower”. This is only the case if either A: the group would range so far away that they wouldn’t get group buffs if they were provided ( if a group is bad enough to range why would they be smart enough to provide buffs? ), or if the group would be running melee weapons in melee instead of ranged weapons. My point is, people who wanted to melee would still melee even if not stacking, and people who would range would still use there ranged weapons just in melee.

Kagamiku.9731:

In the end, it’s easier for pugs because that’s what they’re used to. The fact that you can stack on a boss and kill them without doing hardly anything else…Is what makes dungeons faceroll. Bosses are so predictable that that’s all you need to do to win.

And that’s the point I was making.

No, dungeons are still facerole even when not stacking. And the only reason stacking would make a dungeon easier for a pug is if someone goes down but then again you have to take into account that people might not even be going down if they ranged it soooooooooo stacking doesn’t really do much even in pugs, and that’s not the reason as to why dungeons are faceroll.

Kagamiku.9731:

I meant compared to meleeing and not stacking. I thought that was obvious. If you just attack the boss where he’s standing, half will try to melee and half will try to range when the going gets tough and it will hurt everyone.

So your saying melee stacking is easier than melee while not stacking? Your first sentence here could be taken two ways so I just want to make sure. Either way, my whole point was your whole original sentence about stacking was heavily implying that dungeons were so easy that you could facerole stack on them when stacking hardly does anything a lot of the time.

Kagamiku.9731:

It’s slower, never said it was harder. Stacking is both quick and easy.

Here is a quote from you:

“but it’s the easiest and it works on virtually any boss”

Kagamiku.9731:

I was pointing out easily dodgeable, because it’s just as easy to dodge an attack while on top of the boss then when you are spread out. The biggest benefit of stacking with pugs is the party buffs and the easy access to res’ing the downed players. You don’t need to be ontop of eachother for party buffs but when you’re playing with pugs and you’re not stacking, some will start to use ranged attacks and spread too far out. And that not only slows down the DPS but it weakens the melee tankiness as there are fewer people soaking up the damage. And fewer buffs/heals going around.

I think the pug definition of stacking is actually stacking. Forcing the boss to follow you next to a wall and dpsing him down. I’m referring to dungeons, not fractals. Higher level fractals are still stackable but the average pug group will range the bosses down. It’s slower, but not any harder.

" You don’t need to be ontop of eachother for party buffs but when you’re playing with pugs and you’re not stacking, some will start to use ranged attacks and spread too far out."

So your saying stacking is facerole because otherwise pugs start to range? Because melee is somehow more facerole than RANGE?!?!? Well…..

Kagamiku.9731:

Because any boss with a hard hitting skill has a noticeable tell and is generally easily avoided by dodging into him. The rest of their attacks are negligible and easily tankable. And stacking assures you get full party buffs and heals from not being too spread out. It’s best for pugs because they’re used to it and it works.

You can dodge when you don’t stack, still easily tank the tankable attacks just as well when not stacking, still reach the party buffs and heals when not being exactly stacked up. Just one thing tho to note is what most people call stacking is actually LoSing.

Kagamiku.9731:

TheFrighteningFrenchFry.3275:

Kagamiku.9731:

Wethospu.6437:

When I did AC first time my group spent like 2 hours on Kholer until we quit. When I did Gorseval first time we got it on second try.

Not to mention a huge amount of topics complaning about too hard dungeon difficulty and oneshots.

Even if you didn’t know faceroll stacking is enough to beat any dungeon. It doesn’t matter how old raids become, they will never be as explotable and as easy as dungeons.

Unless you were carried by 9 very experienced players.

First: stacking is actually a bad idea on bosses most of the time
Second: Wethopsu didn’t get carried by anyone, I’d advise you watch his youtube videos

Some of the time. I never said stacking was the most viable or the fastest but it’s the easiest and it works on virtually any boss that stands still. And anyone can do it.

May I ask how you think it makes a boss easier when you stack? Also, I wasn’t saying Wethopsu did do it on his second try or anything, I’m gonna stay out of that.

Kagamiku.9731:

Wethospu.6437:

When I did AC first time my group spent like 2 hours on Kholer until we quit. When I did Gorseval first time we got it on second try.

Not to mention a huge amount of topics complaning about too hard dungeon difficulty and oneshots.

Even if you didn’t know faceroll stacking is enough to beat any dungeon. It doesn’t matter how old raids become, they will never be as explotable and as easy as dungeons.

Unless you were carried by 9 very experienced players.

First: stacking is actually a bad idea on bosses most of the time
Second: Wethopsu didn’t get carried by anyone, I’d advise you watch his youtube videos

forum bugz

/15charrsuck

aelfwe.4239:

TheFrighteningFrenchFry.3275:

J
“shield is mandatory for raid share cause 5th skill with 100% boon duration will bring 24s of quickness for every person in raid (and for sure, caust ToT doesnt have 5 men cap).”

This sentence it’s not a general statement as it seem from your quote.

This sentecence is related to a specific build and rotation who in explained along several post with diffent hypotesis who arent secret and who are explained in numbers.

If you’d check them you’d seen that shield effort is counted around 80%.

Since we’re speaking of the biggest slowest aimed on target directionable chrono skill i think 80% is a result average mesmer can handle.

But if 80% (8 person) is too much for you can reduce it simply by substracting 2,5% on raid quickness uptime final result (87.5%) for every person you deal to miss with 5th shield skill.

In general btw if you deal to miss more than 5 people/cast in average i suggest to give up lf better build

I think 8 people is expecting a bit too much. It’s not like your teammates are going to be stacked up all the time in a neat little ball that never moves where you just have to aim your shield 5 at.

FJSAMA.2867:

TheFrighteningFrenchFry.3275:

There should be a option to have visual noise turned down ( like how it currently is ) and a option for it to be like how it was before. Then both people win.

I agree.. Yet there are still some visual effects that are more important than others.. Then those should be more visible.. Not the other way around… to the point that they even cloak that important effects.

Yes I agree, if they come out with a option to be able to choose alacrity should have it’s visual noise reduced.

Just one thing I want to point out because I think the quickness from shield is a little overrated. In reality, how many players are going to get hit by that wall? Not all 9 players are going to be standing in a spot to get hit with it.

“shield is mandatory for raid share cause 5th skill with 100% boon duration will bring 24s of quickness for every person in raid (and for sure, caust ToT doesnt have 5 men cap).”

There should be a option to have visual noise turned down ( like how it currently is ) and a option for it to be like how it was before. Then both people win.

Thaddeus.4891:

TheFrighteningFrenchFry.3275:

Firebird Gomer.9563:

Rising Dusk.2408:

As for the OP, I seriously expect that raids will be nothing but positive for the game. It’s just new content, so people who really aren’t suited for raids are trying them and worrying about them when they shouldn’t.

Rising I am sorry but this is a TERRIBLE statement.

Content should be available for everyone. That’s what games are about paying for the right to play everything in the game.

The content IS available for everyone, is it not?

Yes it’s available to everyone (with HoT). But to be fair, it’s not easy access for everyone. No Lobby, squad and LFG lacking, etc.

An easier mode for more casual would also be nice (and an infernal mode for hardcore ). For now, people need to have specific build and full ascended armors to have a place. You don’t necessarily need them, but pugs are stupid (not knowing that certain build are great even if they are not yet on meta battle) and want to have the best chance possible so they won’t bother with someone with exotic armor even it’s more than enough.

While two modes would be nice, Anet has already said with dungeons they don’t like that idea, I really don’t think they will do that for raids.