Guild Wars 2

I’d agree 3% is fine but prefer a different plan – .5 second reduction per tick. That caps out at 33%, but equal across all skills.

I don’t the the hoops are too excessive if you look at the protection uptime though – that’s still pretty high and easier to stack.

Sure – I’ll try to keep it short as I’m posting from a phone.

Basically 1 chaos armor ticks 5 times, for 10% reduction. (Xenon: it should be 2% of the total 35, not remaining)

If you can fit 3 or 4 chaos armors in before storm recharges, you get 30-40% cool down reduction and protection on each one.

Before, it was 25% off per armor, but it recharged so fast you couldn’t even fit 3 in!

Apologies if this doesn’t match in game – my internet was extremely dodgy yesterday and I didn’t get to test as much as I would like or time anything accurately. :/

Edit. : Remember you can trigger chaos armor with sword/torch/staff + glamours as well.

Caelus.7139:

Toeofdoom.6152:

Uh, it was up to 64% cool down reductions and permanent protection. There was definitely a reason.

But I’m sure 2% doesn’t do it justice.

With a little more effort it’s still >60% protection uptime and 30-40% cool down off chaos armor/storm – that also means it work fine with weapon swap which it kinda didn’t before. 2% is further than I would’ve dropped it, but it’s still good!

Uh, it was up to 64% cool down reductions and permanent protection. There was definitely a reason.

I don’t think people are asking for flat nerfs – there are specific traits that look problematic, and generally they take the focus. For example a while back I flagged Confounding combatants, chaotic dampening and PU as very likely to be changed – but that was out of 40+ buffs!

Better to have the actual problems addressed than something completely fine.

Updated with chaotic dampening nerf – it’s still a very good trait. I always considered it OP so not that surprised

Just FYI chaotic dampening did NOT get a 60% nerf in reality – the way the maths work out it was non-linear. Max chaos storm CD reduction dropped from 64% to 41% – still pretty nice! Now requires a second ethereal field to work best too.

Remember the last version of confusing combatants worked out to 1 second per crit – at best that’s about 3 constant stacks. They might have added that 5-confusion stack trigger back elsewhere to make it up? Better mechanic anyway…

Hmmm, hopefully they don’t just halve the effect – though I see the reasons for the change. For a standard maim build it looked borderline, but IP allows abusing it – especially with signet of illusions and/or continuum shift.

I would kinda like to see it add 1 long stack if they have 3 or less stacks already, then switch to multiple short stacks if they have more than 4. Mainly because it sounds like a fun mechanic

Be careful if trying to spam defenders. The wiki says if you have multiple defenders out, NONE of them absorb damage! Hopefully that gets fixed…

Hi everyone, just letting you know I’ve updated this with the preview patch notes. The updated sheet is here: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1itgF1ChrrPzlisHzm22qfS2S4CMO709X5fSJEaQveZs/pubhtml

The only changes I found are related to greatsword and scepter which now have the standard 20% reduction. That said, IC + 20% traits + alacrity should stack very well indeed – just take a look at the scepter cooldowns.

I’ve also added a mesmer colour scheme to indicate just how excellent the cooldown reductions are. Purple ones are the best (obviously). Let me know what you think!

Not full impressions, but I think many people are missing a fairly large necromancer buff:

• Vigor: Decreased the endurance regeneration rate from 100% to 50%.

Given necromancer has no vigor and every other class does… the field is closer to level. A bunch of other endurance boosts were reduced too!

So did anyone notice DE got nerfed?

Wait I mean vigor.

Indirectly nerfing DE.

Okay, sorry, I like to make trouble sometimes. I actually think it’s a fair change. But it sorta got stealthily dropped into the forum version and no-one seems to have noticed, so here’s the quote:

• Vigor: Decreased the endurance regeneration rate from 100% to 50%.

IMO the main issue is the way it’s clearly balanced around mantra of pain. As I use mantra of pain, that’s not a huge problem personally.

Anyway – spamming mantra of pain alone gives you an average of 4 stacks over time. (3 charges * 8 seconds / 6 seconds per cycle)
Spamming the next best, Mantra of Recovery, is 2… and the rest are worse.

So they should scale number of stacks or duration based on the mantra in question. Then it’s not nearly as spammy and no longer locked into mantra of pain. It doesn’t need to be perfectly even (MoP can still work better with it than other things) as long as it’s not the only option.
Ideally I would say:

• Spamming 1 mantra gives 60-80% of the trait’s effectiveness
• Using 3 mantras normally does the same.
  I think for those goals, lowering the cap to 3-4 stacks might help (increasing the value of each one)

In terms of balancing out direct damage (no phantasms) vs empowered mantras, it needs to average ~300 ferocity (20% crit damage) if you would otherwise have used 2 mantras. Obviously that’s a fairly rough number depending on stats, but it gives an idea of the ferocity numbers that would be reasonable.

Yes, it’s possible. For the shards I think I distracted things with illusions, then stealthed using MI + decoy while standing at the crystal to give me enough time… Only stealthed 2 of the crystals to allow for MI recharge. there’s also probably room to burn things down faster or capture the throne more quickly when getting the mobs off it.

I’ve been wondering the same thing. It would need to maintain being an ele somehow though – maybe 1 attunement chosen per weapon, or switching main hands and off hands independently (possibly being in 2 attunements at once).

Specialization: Spaceweaver
A spaceweaver specialises in warping the world around them, attacking from unexpected – occasionally, impossible directions. They slice through the world with a dagger or tap into the spectral forces holding it together. If they’re in a hurry, they’ll simply break it open…

Shatter: Knit space, 60s cooldown, 5s duration
Effect: Shatter illusions to weave a series of rifts in space. You can attack and be attacked through the rifts.
Two rifts are created by default – one where you stand and one where you target (900 range). An additional rift is created at the location of each illusion (up to 1800 range).
Attacking through one rift does 80% damage/condition duration
2 rifts, 70% damage/duration each
3 rifts, 60% damage/duration each
4 rifts, 50% damage/duration each

So how does that work? As long as you stand in one rift, copies of you are shown in all the others, duplicating your attacks (mostly). Only simple damage + conditions will be duplicated – you don’t get to summon 4 phantasms or singularities – but you can extend your range and line of sight for all effects through the rifts.

The downside is all effects hitting the copies will be transferred back with the same damage multiplier. Ouch!

Weapon: Dagger
Auto: Entwine: 600 range, 1.5s channel – Hits twice for high power damage with a laser loop string thing
Snap: 600 range, .5s cast – breaks the knot applying a 1s burn. Low power damage

2: Singularity – 8s cooldown, 600 range, 120 radius.
Singularity: Creates a singularity at the target dealing increasing damage over time. Creates dagger clone on completion.
Duration, 2 seconds. Pulses 4 times, 130, 170, 210, 250 damage. (Total: approx 1 mirror blade)
Alt skill – Decay: The singularity ceases to exist, causing 5 stacks of torment for 4 seconds. (No clone)

3: Point to point: .75s cast, 15s cooldown.
Create a portal entrance and disappear into it (can’t be hit).
Impossible strike: .75s cast – 600 range, Strike from a new portal exit, dealing damage (400) and inflicting 4 stacks of bleed. Portal lasts 5 seconds and has 10 charges.

Utility: Spectral skills!
Heal: Phase heal – 20s cooldown
Enemies who hit you for the next 3 seconds will be teleported. (1s ICD per enemy)
Below 450 range: teleported 400 away – Above 450 range: teleported 400 closer.

Spectral loop – .5s cast, 35s cooldown, wall, 900 range.
Enemies crossing the loop will be teleported 300 units backwards and take damage.
Allies crossing the wall are teleported 300 units forwards and healed slightly.

Spectral shadow – 1.5s cast, 75s cooldown, 900 range.
Trap the target in a rift, allowing them to attack and be attacked through it.
Rift lasts 6 seconds. Immobilises for 2 seconds.
50% damage through rift.

Spectral conduit – 40s cooldown.
Breaks stun and teleports you up to 600 range creating a mini portal. 10 charges, 5s duration.

Spectral knot – .5s cast, 45.0s cooldown
Stuns the target for 1 second. After one second, grab is available for 3 seconds.
Grab: Teleport the target to the targetted position. (This can be dodged). Range 1200 (from both you and the target)

Elite: Duplicate Armour, 60s cooldown
Spawn a clone when you are hit (1s ICD) for 6 seconds
Applies 6 seconds of resistance and protection

Traits:
Minors:
Riftweaving
You have access to the “Knit space” shatter.

Evasive maneuvers
Evading applies swiftness (3s, 1.5s ICD)

Unexpected angles
Deal 7% more damage from the side or behind.

Adepts
Dagger mastery
Dagger skills cool down faster. Your portal skills heal when used.
Cooldown reduction on teleport/portal use: 15%. Healing per use: 200

Proximity
Apply vulnerability and might (6s, 1s ICD) on hit below 600 range.

Elusive illusions
Illusions blink to their preferred range when attacking.

Masters
Realignment
Deal more damage and apply longer conditions while moving.
Damage increase: 5% – Condition duration increase: 10%.

Improved tunneling
Increase range of all teleports and portals
Self teleports: Range increased 25%
Enemy teleports: Range increased 50%
Portal skills: Range increased by 50%. Possibly less for actual portal if 50% would break every game mode in existence.

Inverse positioning
When you block or reflect an attack, teleport the attacker. (ICD 30s per target)
Below 450 range: teleported 400 away – Above 450 range: teleported 400 closer.

Grandmasters
Stable rifts
Rifts allow less damage through but last much longer
Duration increase: 300% – Damage/condition duration reduction: 50%

Spectral power
Spectral skills have reduced cooldowns (20%) and create (weakened) Singularities. [Note: This spawns clones]
Singularity damage: 50% of normal.

Harsh warp
Teleports and portal uses deal damage.
Damage on portal: 120 – Damage on teleport: 240 – Damage on enemy teleport: 400
Radius: 180

Lots of interesting ideas in here – looks like dagger main hands are quite popular… I’ll see if I can think up some replacements for the 2 traits that turned out to actually be chronomancer traits and post mine

EDIT: Mailmail – yours doesn’t all that OP except the taunt phantasm :P Did you have any ideas for the utilities?

I’m not going to input too much, but the greatsword cooldown trait looks pretty effective as long as you’re fighting groups OR something below 50% health:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1BJhPwy7_YFw9mT---JY2cIIJuEi-o48Aj6hzzsQdPGs/pubhtml?gid=0&single=true
In particular, the 6 second blind field could be kept up indefinitely once something drops below 50% health.

It generally looked like they were using a pretty defensive amulet, but with some condition damage as well as power (poison ticks over 100)

Ultimately the “meta” rotation is simple for most classes, but there are exceptions. Mesmer currently allows you to learn a fairly wide variety of tricks with utilities and how they fit certain fights Even if the weapons are static.

Chronomancer looks like it will be very elaborate and involve multiple shatters to maximise damage. The trait changes look excellent, though not directly focused on pve.

If you really do want something more involved right now, eles (not staff) and engineers both have heaps of buttons to press.

Finally, if you go for harder encounters (fractals etc.) you will find yourself falling back to other strategies and mesmer is lots of fun then anyway!

Edit: I think you asked for an opinion… I generally find mesmer very interesting in pve, but mix it up with other classes now and then. It also helps that I stick to fractals mostly.

Yeah, with the 40%/66% I’m fairly confident.

As for shatter traits, they are now added – I missed the half base/half trait line and thought the baseline bit was an arbitrary buff because the very next line they give ele 30% baseline and 15% traited! Sorry about that

So what I’ve added is a “best case” and “worst case”: Worst case actually exactly matches what you get traited in game right now. This is NOT a straight 30% reduction, which would make Distortion 42 seconds. In reality, you get 46.25, which is 60/1.3 – because the trait line is a cooldown rate increase.

“Best case” is assuming they did a similar thing to the ele attunement buff and cut 20% off the base cooldowns – which matches this image showing a 12 second mind wrack cooldown: http://dulfy.net/wp-content/uploads/2015/04/gw2-master-of-fragmentation.jpg

Well… I’ll go with that or similar for now, but at least ele differs from that plan and I can’t find where it was stated. Looking closer the AMA tooltip is most consistent with a 10% baseline improvement, but being alpha could be inaccurate.

Hmmm, my calculations were 7.6-7.8 seconds for a mind wrack. I think illusions only reduces by 15% now, not 30%, is that the difference? I’ll add them once I get home, see if we can agree by then

100% uptime seems like a useful metric – for example you should be able to keep it up during a burst… Interested to see what builds people will come up with!

arkealia.2713:

I think I read somewhere that alacrity was a +66% CD reduction, meaning 5/3.

Yes, 66% is the number being used a lot! But that seems most likely to be a cooldown rate increase, meaning cooldown time is 3/5 of normal, or -40%

For example imagine a 100% cooldown speed change – does that mean twice as fast, or zero second cooldowns? I’d say it means twice as fast, or 50% cooldown time.

Xaylin.1860:

Nice work.

Since I’m extra lazy today: Any chance anyone could add the numerical cooldown with 100% Alacrity only without CD traits?

Now done
I’ll also add the other weapons soon! I’m not really sure what to do with pistol though… it’s less measured in seconds, more in interrupts.

First, yes, it assumes 100% alacrity uptime – with current numbers that looks plausible either with rapid shatters or 3 shield phantasms. Good question though

As for adding it to the guide, that would be great! I’ll try to keep it updated whenever we get new information.

Hi everyone,
Since intuition is not all that accurate for all these stacked cool down reductions, I’ve prepared a spreadsheet.

UPDATED 18th june based on the preview patch notes
13 second chaos storm/armour still appears to be intact!
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1itgF1ChrrPzlisHzm22qfS2S4CMO709X5fSJEaQveZs/pubhtml

*Note: currently assumes cooldown time with alacrity is reduced by 40%.
EDIT: Fixed incorrect torch trait numbers

EDIT2: Updated based on the latest information – old version is here if you’re curious:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1rPudqIXBt_uTWpuN7_q1GAJdUAkBSqwm6T7ZerXVDuQ/pubhtml

Your Dom/dueling/chaos build is a regular interrupt build, nothing to do with phantasms at all. :P You betrayed us! (Never mind in PvP I use mantra lockdown shatter)

Anyway I am concerned that style will be nuked by conditions… My plan is to go Dom/Duel/Insp, keep the mantras AND mantra of pain, running GS, Sw/P and duelist’s discipline. That allows massive burst, sustain and party support.

Minors
Each one looks like a good addition to the class, great.

Adept traits
Time Catches Up looks really familiar to me… in fact, let me just quote my “Space weaver” specialisation notepad…

[Adept 3]: Illusionary anticipation
Illusions gain super speed and aegis when shattering.
Phantasms gain super speed when ready to attack.

As you can see, I considered it to be a little bit weak. That’s probably true, though in context chronomancer can spam an extraordinary series of (smaller, 1-2 clone) shatters. Another note: with IP long range shatters are kinda weak to begin, so it’s aimed at a fairly niche set of builds.

All’s well that ends well looks tricky to use – it really doesn’t help against immobilize, blind and burn when it takes that long to trigger. I’d like a short resistance on self added to the cast (1 second, or 2s with a ~10s ICD) so that you can dodge away, land a hit or survive until the burst. But I would specifically avoid moving it from adept without a significant change – it becomes very difficult to work into a build unless it can stand against the strong master traits.

NOTES: All 3 adept traits are pretty niche – long range shatter, interrupt and wells don’t cover all builds (not even close). What do you bother taking in PVE?

Masters
Illusionary reversion and Danger Time look good and will both see use.

Improved alacrity
The numbers on this trait can’t be changed easily (Regardless of them being in flux) as alacrity uptime/balance strictly cap its effectiveness. Because alacrity shouldn’t be balanced around this trait, it will probably end up weak for a master. As mentioned before the adepts are all niche; this is very general so it’s a good candidate to swap.

Grandmasters
Lost time is… interesting. Honestly it seems to me like a mechanic designed to avoid ICDs. I would prefer it not to require crits – every mesmer build for a long time has needed them and that needs to change. Like dhuumfire, it could be better attached to a specific group of abilities (Projectiles? Projectile finishers? Not a clue!)
Actually… I really like the AOE slow (+ blast finisher why not?) on projectile finisher idea. Great in pve too, fields everywhere.

NOTES: 2 shatter traits is worrying, but I think this is a really good group. In particular they each fit different builds and work for both power and condi:
Lost time: Interrupt, Dungeon
Chronophantasma: Phantasm, shatter, dungeon, everything ever
Seize the Moment: Shatter, Mantra, Dungeon

The well trait works on the same theory as the well heal – f5 drop wells, reset… If removal was instant, condis just get reset! But because it is delayed you can double cleanse. remember you really was to be there when the well ends anyway.

Congrats on the portal
If you do want to test things, I already had a list of things that might be display bugs, likely to change so or simply unknown… but it’s a fairly long and mostly unimportant list, so you’re quite welcome to ditch it and hunt the wyvern or whatever instead.

Chaotic dampening: Does it trigger protection on combo chaos armour or just the spell? Can you get the chaos storm cooldown to 13 seconds as predicted?
Confusing combatants: Does it have an ICD/how many stacks do you get?
Persistence of memory: Probably not 2% – what is it really?
Protected phantasms: Does this really have an ICD or is that a bug?
Illusionary Inspiration: Does it really have a 45 second cooldown?
Mental torment: Is it still 50%? Livestream said it would change.
Harmonious mantras: How much is the ferocity boost?

RabbitUp.8294:

Most of those suggestions are too similar to Gadgets and Elixirs mechanically.

That’s fair, it’s just trying to look at the options from a different angle so I didn’t exclude things for similarity except for pet type stuff

I think inspiration has some pretty nice traits, though I hope protected phantasms cooldown is just a leftover from triumphant distortion (Hey it fits). The main one which really seems underwhelming is compounding celerity – in combat speed just isn’t that enticing especially when illusions tend to die all the time.

My planned pvp build is centred around heavy damage mantra use and the inspiration line for excellent sustain. Mender’s purity, shattered conditions and restorative illusions can keep you (and your allies) alive for an extremely long time with mantras of recovery & pain. MoD, greatsword, power block, duelist’s discipline and quickness on interrupt will hurt a great deal too.

I find it useful to look at not just the theming but the purpose – mesmer got long range, powerful AOEs and supportive buff AOEs which were gaps in their utilities. Guardians got offensive area control (rather than defensive as they had before).

From the things we have:
Gadgets – short cast, offensive abilities
Kits – Entire new weapons – generally offensive
Elixirs – Generally self targeted effects – mixed offensive and defensive.
Turrets – Stationary minions – generally offensive

So obvious missing areas are defensive abilities and support abilities. Out of the possible options:
Banner – support, might happen
Physical – neither, unlikely – though it could be changed to be somewhat defensive
Stance – Generally defensive, might happen
Shout – both support and defense, fits about as well as traps fit guardians
Survival – Occasionally defensive, but I can definitely see engineers speccing into making a reactor in a cave to survive or whatever.
Venoms – Neither, unlikely… but it is the opposite of elixirs so it fits thematically
Tricks – Sometimes defensive, unlikely.
Signets – Sometimes defensive, unlikely and pretty difficult to argue for the theme.
Corruptions – Neither, unlikely though there have been many out of control “corrupted” machines around
Arcane – Neither, unlikely, though a great deal of arcane stuff of the asura resembles engineered bits and pieces.
Deceptions – Both! Engineer could expand on the cloaking device and become another stealth class. >.>
Legendary jalis ironhammer skills – Often defensive and supportive. Hey he does seem to be hammer related it could totally happen. Like… ancient dwarven smithing or something.

So to sum up, engineers are definitely getting abilities from the revenant hammer spirit. Well. Maybe.

Windwalker.7421:

If you just use a no Clone shatter then I don’t think you’ll have nearly enough time to complete all the actions you were pondering, nor are you calculating in that any opponent worth a lick is going to rain on your parade…like literally rain fire and brimstone on it! ;-)

Alright, so hit mirror images or de to start and when repeating hit f5 with the 3 phantasms instead of F2. you could probably have filled that detail in yourself. :P
Also, this thread is about pve so you should be able to handle rift placement.

Plan:
F5 – phantasm, switch weapon, phantasm,ether, phantasm, shatter – phantasms respawn and attack.
f2 and end F5.
SoI and repeat.
then repeat again.

18 phantasm attacks and 6 shatters plus a free double time warp and some autos. This does assume f5 also switches weapons back but you can work without it.

How many stacks is that?

Exciton.8942:

As an SoSian, will surely enjoy to fight you on the battle ground

I’d join you! Actually need to rejoin OMFG though… Left due to guild slot pressure and no one being online during Australian time zones

My guess is single charge mantras with sustained effects, half way to being stances anyway, with a slightly shorter charge time than mesmer. Example effects being a semi-spammable apply 1 s burning on every hit for 3s.

You can also take the ascii art approach and simulate the little line thing:
Domination: —v
Dueling: A-V
Chaos: AAA
etc.

They also said necro gets a new way to use death shroud , but they have a greatsword. Could be utilities I guess

Anyway! F5 is just so interesting it easily outweighs a far more build specific weapon for me .

Edit : I really like the shield choice anyway for the style

Not true at all. Seconds is a larger % per tick for short CDs, but you fit in far fewer triggers. as a result, mirror blade maxed out at a 40% ish reduction… Illusionary wave gets past 70%

See: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1rPudqIXBt_uTWpuN7_q1GAJdUAkBSqwm6T7ZerXVDuQ/pubhtml

I wonder if one trait will allow the rewind shatter to also respawn the illusions you shattered – possibly master of fragmentation. There might still be options

I was hoping for a great meta joke where chronomancer was an illusion all along :O

Except then we wouldn’t have chronomancer which looks amazing! I kinda hope the other shield skill (Echo of memory) does decent damage without relying on a phantasm, specifically to address PvE concerns.

I think I’ll put together my attempted build:

Weapons: Greatsword/staff – Energy + generosity
Armour: Sinister, rampager or rabid. In pvp… rabid I guess. Balthazar runes (traited mirror )
Skills: Mirror, Arcane thievery, signet of inspiration, blink, Time warp
Traits
Domination: Empowered illusions/CS, Furious interruption, Greatsword training
Dueling: Phantasmal fury, evasive mirror, deceptive evasion
Chaos: Master of manipulation, Chaotic dampening, Chaotic interruption

Rotation:

• Chaos storm, phase retreat, dodge (energy sigil will recharge), shatter, IWarlock
• Swap
• Spam GS skills, they will be up again soon. Make sure to fill up any spare illusion slots with clones and keep your distance. If they get close, remember mirror will AOE burn.
• Spatial surge and cast skills on cooldown.
• Swap back
• Same plan as GS except alternating chaos armor and storm+ retreat for uptime. Shatters should be thrown in during staff rotations.

Generally it would be worth trying to get a full cooldown out of the 5 skills before swapping back. If you’re really ambitious or get heaps of quickness, 2 for greatsword.

If in a group, try to combo arcane thievery, furious interruption, time warp, balthazar 4 bonus quickness and chaos storm boons with SoI. Otherwise we are assuming it is our speed signet and more useful passive (Quickness on 3 spatial surge clones though? hmmm)

Thoughts:

• That rotation looks like a lot of “Spam it on cooldown lol!” – I think this means I don’t really have a clue how this build plays yet.
• Does evasive mirror have the potential to save dodge clones from instant death regularly? They often tank whatever you were actually dodging and explode.
• A full signet build is tempting, especially given the lack of condition removal.
• I think phantasm damage is better if you have power stats, otherwise CS

EDIT: Quickness is kinda hilarious with this build actually
I have a spreadsheet – https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1rPudqIXBt_uTWpuN7_q1GAJdUAkBSqwm6T7ZerXVDuQ/pubhtml
Assumptions: 2% is calculated after IC (Irrelevant for this build). Clones attack every 2.4 seconds with spatial surge.

I agree, very good point. I quite like mikkel’s idea too, but the same thing could still cause problems with stealth → blink.

jdlawhorn.8061:

Teutos.8620:

In a situation where you hit multiple foes with spatial surge, does the -2% CD proc multiple times?

If I recall correctly, they said in the livestream on Twitch that it would only proc on a single enemy. While I would thoroughly enjoy multiple procs, it would be REALLY powerful considering that Spacial Surge can hit up to three targets, which would add up to a possible 18% reduction from just the Mesmer and not including any GS clones. It would be even worse if Toeofdoom is right and it’s just a placeholder and it becomes 2 SECONDS per hit.

After seeing how much it affects long CD skills I think that’s unlikely, also I was assuming per channel at the time. 1 Second per channel would be reasonable but tilted much more towards mirror blade spam.

Fay.2357:

Assuming that it triggers 3 times per Spacial surge, it means that you could potentially recharge either 6 or possibly up to 18% (3 target pierce) every time you use an auto.

The stream said piercing won’t help.

Also because people seem to have missed it , illusionary wave can be reduced to a 7s CD. This was after accounting for clones attacking slower too.

Just FYI you can theoretically get illusionary wave down to a 7 second cooldown with this trait. I also posted elsewhere about the 13 second chaos storm!

The condition interrupt build idea seems very solid, though I’d imagine more of a sniper given it loses very little at range – you should have pretty substantial might stacks from chaotic interruption anyway.

It wouldn’t be easy for anyone to get close and the manipulation trait allows you to reflect many other long range attacks… or the signet trait pushes it in another direction entirely (more damage, defense and support, less trickery).

Honestly, when I’m listing something there… I don’t expect (or even want) them to end up in the final version anyway. These are traits that allow 60% stealth uptime, 100% protection uptime (or so I thought – see previous note) and about 15 stacks of confusion – each at very low cost.

We may have different goals here, but the way I see it… this is how we’ve had DE as a “required trait” since launch! It will be far more interesting if that situation doesn’t repeat itself.

The reason it’s in this thread is that analysis of the meta relies on how you consider those specific traits and whether you assume they’ll be toned down… and how. That said I’ll probably move change ideas elsewhere, and they won’t just be for things that are “too powerful”

Ansau.7326:

Toeofdoom.6152:

not the trait alone.

Paired with torch trait, and with the actual numbers, it will be like this:
Prestige = 6s.
Decoy = 6s.
MI = 10s. Prestige is available (22 + 22*0.015*30 = 33s).
Prestige = 6s.
Veil = 8s. We need 2s more so Decoy will be available (6+10+6+8 = 30s).
Decoy = 6s. Prestige is available again (22 + 20*0.015*30 = 31s)
Prestige = 6s.

Total = 36s +12s of stealth with just 2s in the middle.

Yeah, I’ve done the calculations too. The point was perma-stealth builds already exist, but aren’t really a problem unless they can do something after spending several utilities, traits and a weapon choice on it. Of course with IP inbuilt, DE and a damage grandmaster… yeah, it can do quite a lot.

I’d probably prefer it if the torch trait worked in reverse – lowered cooldown for not being in stealth so it’s interesting outside PU builds.

I’d also consider splitting the stealth duration bonus into an adept or master trait – say:
Like Glass: Increases stealth duration by 100%, but stealth weakens you over time (Periodically applies weakness, vulnerability, slow). Then it would overlap with other important traits forcing a choice and add a downside. Could improve PUs buffs as a result.

Oh and re-reading chaotic dampening, it’s probably fine if it only applies protection on the chaos armor cast – I was assuming it did on combos as well. In that case 4-5% reduction per tick is powerful but no longer in the “obviously OP” group.

Feaduin.7603:

The thing is that we will have no way of knowing what if anything will be OP as every profession in the game is getting significant trait reworks. It can be fun to theory craft builds that seem optimal given the changes, but we have very little context for judging whether a given build will be OP or UP once HoT goes live.

In the sense of entire builds being affected it is very difficult but single traits can be out of hand. In that sense PU shouldn’t be on my list, but the others are well justified.

I also think the planned PU mesmer would be far beyond what is reasonable in wvw, but that’s a combination of the duration and massive damage boosts available, not the trait alone.