Guild Wars 2

Yeah, I’m trying to separate discussion of power level versus mechanics – I agree most of the ambush skills are not super convincing and the gs one is really bad and I expect large balance passes on all specs in a few months

But if we’re already asking for buffs here, why not ask for the individual ambushes to be actually useful and keep the option of ditching clones entirely? If infinite horizon ends up too powerful they can tone it down like chronophantasma independently.

I am curious – people seem to see this spec as very clone dependent… Can’t you just drop infinite horizon and focus on boosting your own ambush? That’s what I did for most of the beta and it seemed like a perfectly consistent way to reduce the importance of illusions.

The final HoT beta started 3 weeks before release, and they had time to make these changes for druid: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/ranger/Post-BWE3-Druid-Changes

They may have 9 specs this time, but they have 5 weeks instead of 3. That suggests they should have time for a few changes, but more elaborate ones would likely have to wait.

I tried mirage – it was both fun and frustrating to test. The sword ambush easily sold me on how interesting it can be, but the short ambush window, auto-leaps and difficult of telling if you even dodged give it a steep learning curve right now. Smoothing out the key features would go a long way

I quite like the high level design choices and can see a lot of uses for the spec. A few tweaks to make it more smooth and balanced and I expect to use it a great deal, both in pve and whenever I venture back to pvp or wvw.

Esplen.3940:

I mean, you take one sentence and pull it out of context. So… have fun, I guess?

I found it pretty difficult to tell exactly what you were getting at, but I think I figured it out… the idea is:

• Drop feedback, take well of recall
• Now I need reflects, so equip + trait focus.
• That’s great, but because of sigil of concentration I often need to swap to shield and then find I can’t reflect for 10 seconds. Switch to a different sigil and use chaos to make up the difference – now I can stay in shield, then switch to focus whenever reflects are needed.

Right?
Step 3 is not immediately obvious

My impressions so far are:
Mirage cloak: I like this concept for the specialisation mechanic – it’s similar in a sense to berserk/primal burst for warriors and it works well with mantra casts. The implementation is ok, but at the moment I find it very hard to cast ambushes in any sort of precise way because mirage cloak is does not cancel AA the way stealth does. Ideally, there would be some way to control this better. Ideas:

• A sound effect telling you when ambush is ready (similar to mechanic sound effects in raids)
• Move ambush skills to f5 so they are actually optional.

Clone focus: This fits with the focus on condition damage. I don’t find clones all that hard to access with this spec, and they only seem to be critical with one of the 3 grandmasters.

Individual Ambushes: Greatsword puzzles me, it seems awful based on the numbers. Sword seems great at opening up a new way to play the weapon set. I am ambivalent towards the others – they seem to have a place, but I am not sure if they really work well enough.

Axe: Is in effect a clone focused weapon – i.e. based on the numbers it requires you to upkeep clones or it does not pay off. As above, I think that niche is neat but it is a more severe limitation when applied to a weapon than a trait. Also, axe 3 is unreliable and needs work in that area

Deceptions: I like the concepts, though mirrors are a bit tricky to use. I would not object to QoL improvements, nor would I insist on direct buffs. IMO they rely on having a real payoff for ambushes and so attention should be focused there.

Traits: The traits are generally useful but outside GM level they do seem to be “toned down” already. Not sure if this is a problem.

Mastamaker.2957:

The limitations of iDuelist are somewhat mitigated if you use Axe 3 and the new deception utility that retargets all illusions. As long as there aren’t a million mobs it should be relatively easy to keep phantasms up and switch targets.

Yeah that helps but it still has hefty ramp up time, no AoE and generally prevents use of shatters for utility while locking you into utilities and weapons that don’t really appear to be optimal dps in such a scenario.

Also sometimes there are a million mobs

I find it interesting so far – but mainly been poking at the technical aspect instead of playing properly.

In terms of optimised PvE, it only offers condi damage boosts – it looks like it will improve the i-duelist spec but that has well known limitations.

The odd thing is… axe clones seem to stack a very high amount of condis themselves, to the point where my calculations show them applying more than iduelists or staff clones – before you even start using ambushes. Obviously they don’t come with any power damage, but actually having cleave and a short ramp up time counts for something.

The map looks amazing – very well done. Mounts also have me convinced, and the story was pretty good. However the map did feel a little too sparse specifically in number of hearts/events/maybe hero points. Hopefully some were just disabled for the demo

If you are running the previous qt build try this as a stopgap:
Sinister ring to viper = about 4%
Furious tuning Crystal over toxic = about 4%
Switch to the new arms minor trait that converts precision to expertise = about 9%

No permanent changes and should get you back to about 90/95% for now

You are very accurately describing the revenant sword trait: https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Vicious_Lacerations
Generally, 10% damage would be significantly better than 10% critical damage, but this the mesmer trait includes 20% cooldown reduction & affects phantasms so the mesmer trait isn’t completely outclassed.

I think it could, but only in ways not related to power – for example, you could run a poll for mesmer with the options:

• rework dueling trait line
• give signets more synergy
• revisit all the offhand weapons because only 1 is useful in pvp

Or…
What role would you prefer meta guardian to be in PvP?

• bunker/defensive support
• high damage control
• low damage even more control
• Condi brawler

Obviously this style would work best if limited to people who actually play the class

I don’t get this either – by setting it to 75/25 you’ve just given yourself another 51/49 situation except even more ridiculous. 70/30 is really not that ambiguous.

As for desert borderlands, I would be really disappointed if that was removed – since the switch back, I’ve barely touched the borderlands at all because I’m just so bored of them.

See, this treating me like an idiot thing is not productive. I know how stats work.

It was a hybrid build that still did a large part of its damage with power – 20 might stacks, power stats & if moa is too crap now, switching to gravity well allow it to hit hard other ways

Anyway, I don’t think you’re really trying to consider alternate views so I’ll be off.

If you’re trying to buff a burst damage build by buffing a line that works around sustained damage, yeah, that won’t work easily. But that’s not because shattered strength is “too weak”. Instead consider what this would do to a paladin or demolisher version of last season’s meta build.

As for engi traits, I was already comparing to those, and this trait is very similar in power to mass momentum.

Without any boon duration it’s a 5-10% damage boost for build that shatters regularly which is about on par for a master trait. You might be able to argue for minor buffs but doubling it is clearly unreasonable – 3 shatters would send you directly to 24 might, and with Chrono that would be easy.

In theory I like the portal change, but only with a more general rebalance so both mesmer and Chrono still have a viable PvP role. It addresses a few longer-standing, more difficult to fix issues – mandatory utilities, moa/portal bot role etc. And we have previously seen chrono in use without portal. However, getting balance to that point would be difficult especially without reintroducing issues like lack of movement speed options.

It would also easily be enough to make the core of an entire mesmer patch, without completely changing moa and cs.

I like it when I wonder what nerfs my build will be getting, then get a whole bunch of buffs instead.

Precognition actually looks quite good now – not a huge effect, but a 30s cd stunbreak that helps you fight on point and provides some team support is quite a nice deal.

For me the big thing is… I’d really like new legendaries to come out, especially some that actually fit my characters reasonably well. But they seem to take far longer to develop than is really worthwhile!

If there’s some sort of compromise where the work is reduced by focusing on new zones and events instead of older ones that need to be checked… That still seems like a good trade-off.

A simpler way to do something similar is just… Ban or modify amulets depending on class – cele ele no, cele rev fine (etc). Or like… Cleric can give vitality for guard and toughness for druid.

That way you could cut it down to 5 REAL choices per class instead of 25 terrible amulets and 5 good. And you can stop removing amulets for every class because one build is OP

I’m not sure if it’s actually a good plan, but it might help?

I have just one request : CLIENT SIDE JUMP PADS

They are astonishingly frustrating with a ping of 300.

The other changes under discussion look good too, but that one change is the big one for me.

DeathReign.7821:

Lore-wise, this is great for human mesmers but what about the other races? My Mesmer’s a proud Norn and follows Raven, not Lyssa.

I would love to see a Charr using a Human God’s elite spec, lol.

Who wouldn’t want to turn into a pair of bears?

It sounds fun to me, but “better AI” is pretty handwavey – it might work better to shortcut around AI entirely, for example you could make it teleport to the target on specific triggers etc.

This is quite interesting and well thought out – I’m just not really sold on the premise. Every class mechanic has drawbacks, but there are already good examples of how to address them through traits etc. Without toning down what makes classes unique – for example, persistence of memory and chronophantasma allow phantasams to be shattered frequently. Similarly the pet survivability in pve was massively improved.

I won’t go on forever as this isn’t really the right thread for that argument anyway, and the skill changes look cool regardless

Another thing to consider is this: Persistence of memory and the illusions line cooldown traits were overkill last season, because alacrity reduced things enough anyway. Using them now is similar to having alacrity back.

While you’re right offhands are currently chosen for defense, I think that’s a symptom – they suck at other roles.

Focus support/ control just isn’t good enough when Chrono runs fast already.
Pistol shoots too slowly to work well with chronophantasma, and is single target, body-blockable
Sword, everything discussed here… But also the high sustained dps is irrelevant in PvP where your phantasam dies too fast and is still just single target.

None of those phantasams compare favorably to iBerserker in PvP, so why would people use them?

I really like the gap closer suggestion – all the offhands other than shield are long range, and especially for sword that seems unnecessary (in fact I’d go further and reduces the phantasm cast range to 600 while boosting its damage)

Also with the riposte effectively being a melee skill it could hit 3 targets, dunno. I’m suggesting a little more because I agree with daishi about this not exactly boosting its power to competitive levels.

Nero.8623:

Nope I made them all you all must clearly be mistaken

As long as you call one PHANTASPAM I am ok with it.

Anyway I’ll probably check out the videos later, curious if you ever use a scepter version.

I’ve been playing this build since forever well okay last week anyway but similar ones FOREVER and I think it should be called PHANTASPAM

I would have to agree that is not even a minor balance patch, it is a few bug fixes.

Edit: to be clear I enjoy PvP atm and think the balance is not bad , but these just aren’t balance changes. Think about it, if bug fixes are balance changes you can’t fix bugs during a season

I’m seeing the same 350-500k numbers on Condi builds too, though it can vary widely for heaps of reasons (e.g. if you smash the other team too hard you might only do 150 from lack of targets).

Similar Condi shatters using shield + illusions have been around since the HOT betas – bunker mes got all the attention though. Post patch, the MS buffs and new amulets help out, but many variants die too fast with the higher damage meta – so this extra defensive version took a while to show up.

Hmmm, what about

Mantra of mockery
2.75s cast, 2 charges

Power Irony
Applies “Ironic punishment” to up to 5 foes in the area around you (360 radius)
Ironic punishment (10s): All spells take 2.75s to cast.

I was adding basically the same build the day before ESL, with both the adjustments you mentioned! – but to be honest I don’t think they did anything wrong , the mesmer builds they had previously were all seriously flawed since the latest patch.

While most of those changes seem reasonable, as you said the balance patch is unlikely to be that big. Might see 2-3 of them on Tuesday though.

My main guess is alacrity on shatter returning to 1 second

The build is extremely similar to what I’ve been playing recently – the core combo (in my opinion) is persistence of memory, echo of memory, chronophantasma & mental defense, which allows using echo of memory + mental defense every 10-15 seconds, for a very effective illusion generation engine and defensive cycle.

I think it worked reasonably well in that match anyway – it’s not too weak to reaper as it doesn’t rely on boons and illusions often absorb transfers. Double moa, aoe diversion and more adds quite a bit to a team fight. There was a bit earlier in the match where the mes finished taking down that same necro, showing decent damage when applied well.

I personally play this version – it uses scepter which improves condi pressure and a couple of other tweaks around standing on a point more in 1v1s.

Deimos Tel Arin.7391:

Toeofdoom.6152:

If the intent is to move towards more widely applicable ones over time, that’s a good change and the recently added amulets did that quite well. (Though you could simply remove barbarian, knight and possibly carrion now due to them being outclassed)

carrion might be outclassed by mercenary but knight could be still useful.
as for barbarian, low health professions may wanna try that some time.

Sure, but that’s kinda what I mean – you need a specific class and some other thing happening (need vitality to resist conditions, or toughness to amplify a bunch of healing) for those amulets to ever work, which in a vast majority of cases doesn’t happen. When it does, those builds will lose very little by switching to paladin anyway.

Though yes, there are rare cases where those amulets are better.

Hmmm, this seems a bit odd as both crusader and vigilant are pretty uncommon and not that powerful, though I have had some success with a crusader rifle scrapper.

That said, amulets with too much toughness and no vitality are very niche – they are usually bad for ele, necro, guardian and thief. These amulets are even harder to use due to the other stat choices – condi duration but no condi damage, ferocity but no precision.

If the intent is to move towards more widely applicable ones over time, that’s a good change and the recently added amulets did that quite well. (Though you could simply remove barbarian, knight and possibly carrion now due to them being outclassed)

Daniel Handler.4816:

Ohhhhhh snap. He did not. Alpha you gonna take that?

Erm… what? I don’t exactly know what you’re reading but… often these threads end up with lots of people all giving different answers, I’m glad that isn’t happening again. It means I don’t have to go back and change or test the entire spreadsheet :/

Yeah, just a simultaneous post, left it there because of the link to the spreadsheet. Good to know we agree though

I’m pretty sure it should be

alacrity cooldown = regular cooldown/1.3333…
which is also
alacrity cooldown = regular cooldown * 0.75
EDIT: This is exactly the same as what Alpha said, we posted at about the same time.

I’ve updated this spreadsheet with those numbers.
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1itgF1ChrrPzlisHzm22qfS2S4CMO709X5fSJEaQveZs/pubhtml

Hmmm… I think the alacrity change is good in the long term because mesmer has a really interesting breakdown of trait lines and I don’t want chrono to be mandatory. That said, the builds I basically copy/pasted from pre-patch are now subpar.

There are some hefty buffs in, but it will take time to figure out if they can be used effectively because they’re on unusual traits. My current best hope for a powerful build revolves around mantras + Chrono.

Paladin amulet seems very useful if you are getting destroyed by burst, meaning there’s something to fall back on if thieves are being annoying.

I agree with vornollo, just want to add it’s very useful for comparing stat choices – if you run carrion but consistently do 70% power damage, maybe drop the Condi. If you switch to a more aggressive amulet and damage drops because you die too much… Switch back! That said, even then it can be misleading because bursting someone faster can lower damage too ( they don’t get to heal up)

One of the big issues with dps is that all phantasms are long range attacks. If you say…. Make iWarden appear on top of you and only move after the first attack you can probably triple the damage.

It’s partly issues like that, or like sword being lower damage because it’s also defensive.

Then there’s a 4% chance to get no scraps from 8 chests – sounds like you were unlucky, but it’s well within the expected range for RNG, gotta be prepared to lose occasionally.

It seems reasonable to me, but I’m curious how useful bunker mesmer will be now – if the answer is “completely outclassed”… I’d be a little disappointed, but also hopeful that it would lead to improvements to inspiration and healing power scaling etc.

It does complicate my current build which is a high speed condi roamer that can either 1v1 at home or stall a 1v2 for backup, but I had a 75% win rate in leagues anyway… (still in emerald :P)

Sounds good to me, anything to make them less dependant on perfect positioning. I think the thief elite daggerstorm might be worth a look too, it hits everything writhing a certain range too iirc

Menders purity CD would only really affect mantra builds because the heal has a 30s CD anyway (except occasionally with CS) – seems unnecessary. Didn’t think temporal enchanted even saw use in PvP…

That said I agree defense, not support, is the main issue

Unless you dropped it while out of range I have no idea – I’ve been using those skills together extensively without a problem. I’ll keep an eye out though

Ran into a game with an esl player recently but apparently it is possible to lose, yet not lose any pips – it was around 200/500 (I don’t get the impression they were trying extremely hard based on the talking and standing still during combat)